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What feats would a character have to do, at bare minimum, baring direct comparisons (and also, assume they're from different companies, so ABC comparisons don't exist either), in order to think him as:

a). Being stronger than Thor.
b). Being stronger than Thanos.
c). Being fast enough to speedblitz Silver Surfer to a knockout, before Silver Surfer'd be able to mount any kind of counter-attack/defense.
d). Being fast enough to speedblitz Thor to a knockout, before Thor'd be able to mount any kind of counter-attack/defense.
e). Being fast enough to speedblitz Thanos to a knockout, before Thanos'd be able to mount any kind of counter-attack/defense.

Originally posted by She-Ra-La

b. Thanos has no strength feats I can think of. He's likely twice as strong as Hulk.
That doesn't mean anything.

I'd rather you not use characters, but instead use quantifiable feats, otherwise this thread will derail into Marvel vs DC.

For the speed part, assume the character has adequate strength - as in he'd be able to knock Surfer/Thor/Thanos out in under 10-15 attacks - and the question is soley speed related.

Originally posted by inimalist


iirc, there have been dozens of pages of debate about, for instance, Thor's strength

just dozens?

Originally posted by She-Ra-La
a. Any being Superman's level or close is Stronger than Thor.
b. Thanos has no strength feats I can think of. He's likely twice as strong as Hulk.
c. No one is fast enough to blitz Surfer to a KO under trans. Flash maybe if he does a whole lot of imps.
d. Thor isn't that fast. Anyone who can approach light speed and combat maneuver will be able to KO thor if they are at least as strong as the Base Hulk.
e. No one but Zoom.
I agree with this

Originally posted by PillarofOsiris
just dozens?

well, that I've bothered to spend time reading

Originally posted by Galan007
Simply put: the character in question would need to have Superman-level feats. superman prime, you mean

Originally posted by PillarofOsiris
just dozens? Thousands of dozens.

Originally posted by inimalist
from what I've seen on these forums, there is nowhere near a general consensus on any of the powers you have listed there.

iirc, there have been dozens of pages of debate about, for instance, Thor's strength I don't care for you to debate it, I'm asking for personal opinions, not consesus, on quantifiable feats that, in your opinion, would make that character capable of what I've enumerated.

Originally posted by Galan007
Simply put: the character in question would need to have Superman-level feats. *insert epic explosion pic*

ha-som
Look at what your presence is attracting twoards Gotham:

Originally posted by 753
superman prime, you mean
Originally posted by Silent Master
You mean feats equal to a Superman w/GL ring, power gem, Norn-stones and a personality.



Seriously people, focus on what the thread is asking.

Originally posted by Galan007
Simply put: the character in question would need to have Superman-level feats.

You mean feats equal to a Superman w/GL ring, power gem, Norn-stones and a personality.

Originally posted by She-Ra-La
a. Any being Superman's level or close is Stronger than Thor.

The strength ones are iffy and the speed even moreso considering comics have very inconsistent ways of dealing with speed.

But barring direct comparisons I'd say moving or one shotting a planet of Earth mass or greater with strength alone would certainly put you above Thor.

a). Being stronger than Thor.

Pushing a planet? Cause I'm pretty sure Thor fans would come up with the midgard snake feat. My opinion would be different though cause that's not Thor's "avarage" showing but there the problems start.

Originally posted by Parmaniac
a). Being stronger than Thor.

Pushing a planet? Cause I'm pretty sure Thor fans would come up with the midgard snake feat. My opinion would be different though cause that's not Thor's "avarage" showing but there the problems start.
Wasn't the Serpent stated as "only" being 1/2 the mass of Earth?

Why would one shotting or moving a planet put you above Thor?

There is no quantifiable feat that a character can do that would place them above Thor strength wise in of itself. Same goes for Hulk, Superman and every other elite top tier strength wise because if need be, a writer can have said characters doing high end unquantifiable feats.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
Wasn't the Serpent stated as "only" being 1/2 the mass of Earth? IDK, then you can argue it was wrapping itself around the planet, usimg muscles etc. etc..

lifting "infinite mass"... as retarded as that is.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
There is no quantifiable feat that a character can do that would place them above Thor strength wise. One shotting the omniverse?

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Why would one shotting or moving a planet put you above Thor?

There is no quantifiable feat that a character can do that would place them above Thor strength wise.

Ahem. MAH-GEH-DUN!!!

Am I suppose to be impressed?

Originally posted by Parmaniac
One shotting the omniverse?

That's quantifiable?

If we get into a pissing contest of strength feats by people who aren't abstract level to begin with, Superman is probably going to win.

His definitely a likely candidate. Thor matches his "unquantifiable" feats in terms of scale. He doesn't have as many of them though I'd wager.

Abstracts don't really have much in the way of strength feats actually.

Originally posted by inimalist
what i am saying though, is that there is no way to judge what the level you have enumerated is. Being stronger than thor could vary between moving mountains to moving planets. I don't think anyone has ever made a close to conclusive arguement about how fast a character has to be to speedblitz Thanos.

like, its not just that comics are inconsistent with character power levels, its that you have picked things that are the debates that derail threads. It doesn't matter who he is fighting, every debate about Thanos ends with massive discussions about how fast his reflexes are or how many times he needs to punch a certain character for them to die.

what I'm saying is that it is illogical to take an opinion on what is stronger than thanos when there is no way to know how strong thanos is. What you're doing here is nothing more than hiding behind "comics vary" and "there's no way to know how strong a character is", at the same time applying the no-limits fallacy, when what I'm asking is quite simple - based on everything you have read about the characters I mentioned, what would be the bare minimum feat that would make you think that he, indeed, could perform or is at the level I asked.

"There's no way to know how strong Thanos is" is just a no-limits fallacy. Thanos has had fights. Thanos has had feats. Based on those, what would the character have to perform to exceed them, and be considered capable of what I said? Same for the others.

I don't want to bother with this useless discussion, so unless you're about to post something substantial, you should refrain from doing so anymore, as a discussion about why you're not answering the topic is quite absurd.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Why would one shotting or moving a planet put you above Thor?

There is no quantifiable feat that a character can do that would place them above Thor strength wise in of itself. Same goes for Hulk, Superman and every other elite top tier strength wise because if need be, a writer can have said characters doing high end unquantifiable feats.
Fair enough, but if we're going by pure feats and ruling out direct comparison and such that would be above any of Thor's quantifiable strength feats, wouldn't you agree?

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
If we get into a pissing contest of strength feats by people who aren't abstract level to begin with, Superman is probably going to win.

Depends. But maybe. But regardless of feats, Superman is clearly not as strong as certain incarnations of Doomsday, Superboy Prime, Sodam Yat Ion, Infinity Man, and a handful of others and none of them are abstract level. The fact is villains just have fewer feats (not that the guys I just named are all villains).

Originally posted by Omega Vision
Fair enough, but if we're going by pure feats and ruling out direct comparison and such that would be above any of Thor's quantifiable strength feats, wouldn't you agree?

Where do you draw the line between quantifiable or unquantifiable?

I'm just curious. Where would something like this rank in your book:
http://i989.photobucket.com/albums/af17/RageOfOlympus/Thor/WithstandsNeutronStar1.jpg
http://i989.photobucket.com/albums/af17/RageOfOlympus/Thor/WithstandsNeutronStar2.jpg

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Where do you draw the line between quantifiable or unquantifiable?

I'm just curious. Where would something like this rank in your book:
http://i989.photobucket.com/albums/af17/RageOfOlympus/Thor/WithstandsNeutronStar1.jpg
http://i989.photobucket.com/albums/af17/RageOfOlympus/Thor/WithstandsNeutronStar2.jpg

I would say that's quantifiable, because we know the gravitational force of a neutron star (not that that means that that feat is not one of the best strength feats I've ever seen from a "herald level" character). I would say unquantifiable feats would be like Thor's world engine feat, Superman shattering reality, etc.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Where do you draw the line between quantifiable or unquantifiable?

I'm just curious. Where would something like this rank in your book:
http://i989.photobucket.com/albums/af17/RageOfOlympus/Thor/WithstandsNeutronStar1.jpg
http://i989.photobucket.com/albums/af17/RageOfOlympus/Thor/WithstandsNeutronStar2.jpg
Do you mean unquantifiable as in we can't assign an exact number to it or unquantifiable as in we can't even make a rough guess?

Up there with Superman holding a black hole.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
Up there with Superman holding a black hole. The black hole was holding superman.

But yeah there we get into trouble.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
Do you mean unquantifiable as in we can't assign an exact number to it or unquantifiable as in we can't even make a rough guess?

Up there with Superman holding a black hole.

What definition do you use? I personally think that once we reach the point where any math goes out the window, it's unquantifiable.

I'd rate it higher because IIRC Clark had help from Green Lantern and/or another device.

Anyways, I think once you reach characters like Thor or Superman, there's little one can do in terms of feats that would place them above. Certainly no quantifiable feat imo.

It should be noted, that if Superman really did lift a book with infinite pages (and hence infinite mass) he's upper tier abstract level (Eternity/Infinity).

Originally posted by Parmaniac
The black hole was holding superman.

But yeah there we get into trouble. No. Superman held a black hole in his hand. Superior Strength Feat. WW pulling herself out of a Black Hole and WW pulling MM out of a black hole is also a Superior Feat. Thor and the World Engine is a superior feat. Thor breaking the Midgard Serpent. Superior Feat. Etc.

Originally posted by zopzop
It should be noted, that if Superman really did lift a book with infinite pages (and hence infinite mass) he's upper tier abstract level (Eternity/Infinity). That is Superman's second feat of lifting infinite weight of some sorts.

Originally posted by zopzop
It should be noted, that if Superman really did lift a book with infinite pages (and hence infinite mass) he's upper tier abstract level (Eternity/Infinity).

What? That in no way follows. But that feat does count as "unquantifiable" in my opinion.

Originally posted by PillarofOsiris
What? That in no way follows. But that feat does count as "unquantifiable" in my opinion.

Infinity is a Marvel Abstract representing the infinite (space, power, etc..). Superman, if he lifted a book of infinite pages and hence infinite mass, is greater than Infinity (one of Marvel's Top Four Abstracts).

It's a magic book, I'd need proof that it's weight was actually "infinite".

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
What definition do you use? I personally think that once we reach the point where any math goes out the window, it's unquantifiable.

I'd rate it higher because IIRC Clark had help from Green Lantern and/or another device.

Anyways, I think once you reach characters like Thor or Superman, there's little one can do in terms of feats that would place them above. Certainly no quantifiable feat imo.
Not exactly, there was a point where it was only Superman holding the thing. Besides Black Holes>Neutron Stars in terms of gravity

I mostly agree. Without direct comparisons it becomes borderline impossible to judge relative strength.

Originally posted by Silent Master
It's a magic book, I'd need proof that it's weight was actually "infinite".

If it's weight wasn't infinite (infinite pages) because it was a "magic" book, then using it as a feat in Superman's favor is pointless. Aunt May could lift a book.

Originally posted by zopzop
If it's weight wasn't infinite (infinite pages) because it was a "magic" book, then using it as a feat in Superman's favor is pointless. Aunt May could lift a book. I don't recall anywhere that the book was magic.

Originally posted by Silent Master
It's a magic book, I'd need proof that it's weight was actually "infinite".
Captain Marvel comments that it's "bigger than a Universe" or something along that line.

The only way it wouldn't have infinite mass is if each constituent page was massless (0+0=0 no matter how many times you add it). In which case they wouldn't struggle lifting it at all.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
Captain Marvel comments that it's "bigger than a Universe" or something along that line.

The only way it wouldn't have infinite mass is if each constituent page was massless (0+0=0 no matter how many times you addhttp://www.killermovies.com/forums/newreply.php?s=&action=newreply&postid=13278175 it). In which case they wouldn't struggle lifting it at all.

Well, if page 1 weighed 1/2 lb, page 2 weighed 1/4 lb, page 3 weighed 1/16 lb, out to infinity, even though there would be an infinite number of pages, altogether they'd weigh one pound. So an infinite number of numbers doesn't always necessarily add up to infinity or zero.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Powers_of_half_sum.gif

Originally posted by She-Ra-La
I don't recall anywhere that the book was magic.

If it wasn't magic, how does it have "infinite pages"?

Originally posted by zopzop
If it's weight wasn't infinite (infinite pages) because it was a "magic" book, then using it as a feat in Superman's favor is pointless. Aunt May could lift a book. Why do people use superman and captain marvel lifting it as evidence?

Ultraman lifted it by himself but somehow its not a better feat?

Originally posted by Black bolt z
Why do people use superman and captain marvel lifting it as evidence?

Ultraman lifted it by himself but somehow its not a better feat? Infinite divided by two is still infinite.

Originally posted by She-Ra-La
Infinite divided by two is still infinite. But not as big.

Originally posted by Black bolt z
But not as big.

It's still infinite BBZ.

PS Isn't Ultraman an alternate reality version of Superman anyway? So it still counts as a Superman feat.

Originally posted by zopzop
It's still infinite BBZ.

PS Isn't Ultraman an alternate reality version of Superman anyway? So it still counts as a Superman feat. LT has infinite power. PR Beyonder has infinite power. But PR Beyonder has more infinite power then LT. Its a hard concept to understand. But it does make a difference.

Actually no it doesn't.

Originally posted by zopzop
It's still infinite BBZ.

PS Isn't Ultraman an alternate reality version of Superman anyway? So it still counts as a Superman feat. Lol, no.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Lol, no.

No what? Half of infinity isn't infinity? Or counting Ultraman's feat as a Superman feat?

Originally posted by zopzop
No what? Half of infinity isn't infinity? Or counting Ultraman's feat as a Superman feat? Is Ultraman twice as strong as Superman? No.

So Ultraman lifting it up, when Superman and Captain Marvel lifted it up, shouldn't be projected onto Superman.

Unless we all know and recognize that lifting the Book of Infinite Pages only required Ultraman strength in the first place.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Is Ultraman twice as strong as Superman? No.

So Ultraman lifting it up, when Superman and Captain Marvel lifted it up, shouldn't be projected onto Superman.

Unless we all know and recognize that lifting the Book of Infinite Pages only required Ultraman strength in the first place.

Fine. Alternate reality versions of characters feats don't count toward the mainline versions. Superman STILL lifted 1/2 an infinite weight, that's abstract level power right there.

Originally posted by zopzop
Fine. Alternate reality versions of characters feats don't count toward the mainline versions. Superman STILL lifted 1/2 an infinite weight, that's abstract level power right there. No its not.

Originally posted by zopzop
Fine. Alternate reality versions of characters feats don't count toward the mainline versions. Superman STILL lifted 1/2 an infinite weight, that's abstract level power right there.

Or, the book's weight isn't really infinite.

Just like Odin isn't really omnipotent, despite him being called that several of times.

Originally posted by Black bolt z
No its not.

Yes it is. Since he lifted (let's say half for the sake of argument) half of an INFINITE weight. The level of power required to do that is insane. An object with no limit to it's weight was lifted by him and CM.

I guess that Odin really is omnipotent, Iron-man is invincible and Juggernaut invulnerable.


I think Zeus as been called all-powerful at least once.

I would imagine inferring infinite weight from an object only said to have "infinite pages" is sort of putting too much real world science into a comic. For instance, an object with infinite mass also has infinite gravity, and the book didn't collpse the universe into itself... or did it? I guess I'm not familiar with the feat

Originally posted by inimalist
I would imagine inferring infinite weight from an object only said to have "infinite pages" is sort of putting too much real world science into a comic. For instance, an object with infinite mass also has infinite gravity, and the book didn't collpse the universe into itself... or did it? I guess I'm not familiar with the feat

For example...Flash's IMP.

Originally posted by zopzop
Yes it is. Since he lifted (let's say half for the sake of argument) half of an INFINITE weight. The level of power required to do that is insane. An object with no limit to it's weight was lifted by him and CM. Is juggernaut unstoppable? Is Odin omnipotent?

Its called a hyperbole.

And its still unquantifiable. Because if it only takes superman level strength then thor could lift it, hulk could, sentry could. A lot of people could.

Originally posted by Galan007
Simply put: the character in question would need to have Superman-level feats. a mod should have closed the thread after this, cause that's the answer he's looking for

everyone quote it and have a nice day

Originally posted by zopzop
Fine. Alternate reality versions of characters feats don't count toward the mainline versions. Superman STILL lifted 1/2 an infinite weight, that's abstract level power right there. it's funny how a magician found a way to circumvent the need for a neverending series of books by putting all the entries into a magical tome, but somehow managed to phuck up the weight issue. go figure

ultimate hulk could probably lift the book also though mmm

Originally posted by inimalist
I would imagine inferring infinite weight from an object only said to have "infinite pages" is sort of putting too much real world science into a comic. For instance, an object with infinite mass also has infinite gravity, and the book didn't collpse the universe into itself... or did it? I guess I'm not familiar with the feat

There's scans in this very thread of Thor being bombarded with "neutron star" level gravity yet the planet he's fighting on doesn't collapse. The hydrogen and other gases in the atmosphere didn't condense into liquids/solids because of the intense gravity etc.... Why nit pick this feat but not that?

It's a comic book, it doesn't have to make sense.

Originally posted by psycho gundam
a mod should have closed the thread after this, cause that's the answer he's looking for

everyone quote it and have a nice day

it's funny how a magician found a way to circumvent the need for a neverending series of books by putting all the entries into a magical tome, but somehow managed to phuck up the weight issue. go figure

ultimate hulk could probably lift the book also though mmm

You got an on panel feat of anyone doing anything comparable to lifting "half" of an infinite weight? I'm genuinely interested.

Originally posted by zopzop
You got an on panel feat of anyone doing anything comparable to lifting "half" of an infinite weight? I'm genuinely interested. So if you only need superman level strength I guess infinite is pretty light.

Originally posted by Black bolt z
Is juggernaut unstoppable? Is Odin omnipotent?

Its called a hyperbole.

And its still unquantifiable. Because if it only takes superman level strength then thor could lift it, hulk could, sentry could. A lot of people could.

Post scans of them lifting half an infinite weight and you'll have a point. Till then, I'm just gonna ignore your posts.

Originally posted by Black bolt z
So if you only need superman level strength I guess infinite is pretty light.

Take it up with DC comics.

You haven't proven that the book had "infinite weight".

Originally posted by Silent Master
You haven't proven that the book had "infinite weight". IIRC didn't it just say it was a book with "Infinite knowledge"? It didn't even say infinite pages much less infinite weight.

Originally posted by zopzop
You got an on panel feat of anyone doing anything comparable to lifting "half" of an infinite weight? I'm genuinely interested.

You got an on panel statement of anyone stating they book actually possessed infinite weight? I'm genuinely interested.

Originally posted by psycho gundam
You got an on panel statement of anyone stating they book actually possessed infinite weight? I'm genuinely interested.

It had an INFINITE amount of pages. You do the math.

Originally posted by Black bolt z
IIRC didn't it just say it was a book with "Infinite knowledge"? It didn't even say infinite pages much less infinite weight.

If it's just "infinite knowledge" you have a point. But if it's infinite PAGES, think about it............

Originally posted by zopzop
If it's just "infinite knowledge" you have a point. But if it's infinite PAGES, think about it............ I'll check tomorrow.

I'm pretty sure its always just said infinite knowledge but my memory is sketchy.

Originally posted by Black bolt z
I'll check tomorrow.

I'm pretty sure its always just said infinite knowledge but my memory is sketchy.

If it says "knowledge", you are 100% right, lifting it means nothing. But the rabid Superman fanboys latched on to this feat and are milking it for everything it's worth. Plus why would Superman AND Captain Marvel strain to lift a book of infinite 'knowledge'? Why would the Superman fanboys drool over this feat?

Originally posted by zopzop
If it says "knowledge", you are 100% right, lifting it means nothing. But the rabid Superman fanboys latched on to this feat and are milking it for everything it's worth. Plus why would Superman AND Captain Marvel strain to lift a book of infinite 'knowledge'? Why would the Superman fanboys drool over this feat? Not entirely sure they were straining.

I mean Ultraman seemed to lift it with no problem. And in the exact same two issue series superman and Ultraman would depicted to be 100% equals.

Originally posted by zopzop
It had an INFINITE amount of pages. You do the math. so what, it's a comic after all.

if you tried doing the math, you'd have to factor in ultraman getting tooled by superman, the same guy who would have to be half as physically powerful as he is (assuming the book was level). i guess superman and captain marvel didn't eat their wheaties that morning

Originally posted by psycho gundam
so what, it's a comic after all.

if you tried doing the math, you'd have to factor in ultraman getting tooled by superman, the same guy who would have to be half as physically powerful as he is (assuming the book was level). i guess superman and captain marvel didn't eat their wheaties that morning

Or the writing is inconsistent. It's not like this is the first time this has happened in comics.

Originally posted by zopzop
Or the writing is inconsistent. It's not like this is the first time this has happened in comics.

Is Odin omnipotent?
Is Iron-man invincible?
Is Juggernaut invulnerable?
Does Flash's IMP have infinite mass?

Originally posted by zopzop
There's scans in this very thread of Thor being bombarded with "neutron star" level gravity yet the planet he's fighting on doesn't collapse. The hydrogen and other gases in the atmosphere didn't condense into liquids/solids because of the intense gravity etc.... Why nit pick this feat but not that?

are you suggesting I should go through every scan posted and explain why it isn't scientificly possible?

madness sir! I'm not that much of a glutton for punishment

Originally posted by zopzop
It's a comic book, it doesn't have to make sense.

yes, my point exactly

so:

Originally posted by zopzop
It had an INFINITE amount of pages. You do the math.

=

Originally posted by zopzop
It's a comic book, it doesn't have to make sense.

^he answered his own questions

was the magical book heavy? hell yeah it was, but to say it literally had infinite weight....come now

Originally posted by Galan007
Simply put: the character in question would need to have Superman-level feats.

Even if the book did have infinte weight.. how do we quantify the feat? I mean, if it was me instead of Superman we would've still lifted it as Cap would've been holding the exact same amount of weight as before. Half of infinity.

Originally posted by zopzop
It should be noted, that if Superman really did lift a book with infinite pages (and hence infinite mass) he's upper tier abstract level (Eternity/Infinity). the book was magical so each page weighted nothing, now what?

Originally posted by 753
the book was magical so each page weighted nothing, now what?

Was that stated on panel or you just making stuff up as you go along?

Originally posted by zopzop
If it says "knowledge", you are 100% right, lifting it means nothing. But the rabid Superman fanboys latched on to this feat and are milking it for everything it's worth. Plus why would Superman AND Captain Marvel strain to lift a book of infinite 'knowledge'? Why would the Superman fanboys drool over this feat? cause they're fanboys. that feat was retarded. SM has much better and more solid strengh feats than that crap anyway

Originally posted by inimalist
are you suggesting I should go through every scan posted and explain why it isn't scientificly possible?

madness sir! I'm not that much of a glutton for punishment



yes, my point exactly

so:



=

The fact that they mentioned that it had INFINITE pages was meant to convey the epicness of them lifting it. Otherwise, who the xxxx cares that two superhumans lifted a book. I can lift a book. You can lift a book. Big deal.

Is Odin omnipotent?
Is Iron-man invincible?
Is Juggernaut invulnerable?
Does Flash's IMP have infinite mass?

Originally posted by zopzop
Was that stated on panel or you just making stuff up as you go along? Im making it up, just like you made up that the book actually weighed anything. it clearly doesnt follow physical laws as it has an inifinite number of pages but not infinite volume. so why would it have infinite weight? comic itself says nothing of the weight, just says they struggled, which should be more symbolic than anything.

Originally posted by Silent Master
Is Odin omnipotent?
Is Iron-man invincible?
Is Juggernaut invulnerable?
Does Flash's IMP have infinite mass?
no
no
yes uhuh
it should read infinite force, but it has neither.

Originally posted by zopzop
The fact that they mentioned that it had INFINITE pages was meant to convey the epicness of them lifting it. Otherwise, who the xxxx cares that two superhumans lifted a book. I can lift a book. You can lift a book. Big deal.

I'm not arguing that they wanted to make it a big feat

all I'm saying, and as you agree, comics don't necessarily make sense, and your own example shows that the writers didn't explicitly say the book had infinite mass. You can't make the leap from one to the other, because, comics don't make sense. There is no intrinsic logic to the universe that allows you to infer a conclusion from a set of observations like that.

Originally posted by psycho gundam
so what, it's a comic after all.

if you tried doing the math, you'd have to factor in ultraman getting tooled by superman, the same guy who would have to be half as physically powerful as he is (assuming the book was level). i guess superman and captain marvel didn't eat their wheaties that morning

Except that iirc, it wasn't stated that Superman couldn't lift it alone. Just because Billy lifted it too, doesn't mean that Superman couldn't do it by himself.

iirc Superman only asks Billy to help him before he even tries to lift it.

It has been a while since I read it though, so if I'm mistaken, then fair enough.

Book said infinite pages, not a big stretch to assume infinite weight. srug Superman Beyond was pretty insane to being with though.

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
Book said infinite pages, not a big stretch to assume infinite weight. srug Superman Beyond was pretty insane to being with though.

Iron-man vs Superman = Iron-man wins, because he's invincible.

Originally posted by Silent Master
Iron-man vs Superman = Iron-man wins, because he's invincible. .........Don't be a durquanchi.

Iron-man is invincible, I suggest you deal with it.

Originally posted by -Pr-
Except that iirc, it wasn't stated that Superman couldn't lift it alone. Just because Billy lifted it too, doesn't mean that Superman couldn't do it by himself.

iirc Superman only asks Billy to help him before he even tries to lift it.

It has been a while since I read it though, so if I'm mistaken, then fair enough. i guess, ultraman lifted it solo, but dwelling on these types of feats is pointless. superman has better lifting/strength feats that are more applicable to "normal" situations.

if the book is or is not infinite in mass, it doesn't change the fact that superman is one of the strongest beings in comics. i could personally forget it even happened.

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
Book said infinite pages, not a big stretch to assume infinite weight. sure, but then that same book is also the same size as an encyclopedia brittanica tome, with all of it's special qualities being due to magic.

kinda like oh idunno....the rock of eternity

Originally posted by psycho gundam
i guess, ultraman lifted it solo, but dwelling on these types of feats is pointless. superman has better lifting/strength feats that are more applicable to "normal" situations.

if the book is or is not infinite in mass, it doesn't change the fact that superman is one of the strongest beings in comics. i could personally forget it even happened.

sure, but then that same book is also the same size as an encyclopedia brittanica tome, with all of it's special qualities being due to magic.

kinda like oh idunno....the rock of eternity Might I point out that Superman and Wonder Woman both supported Spectre's weight, which was called the weight of eternity.

You can't have it both ways dude.

and yet they needed a third to help them with the earth

do you not see the issues you're bringing up?

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
Might I point out that Superman and Wonder Woman both supported Spectre's weight, which was called the weight of eternity.

You can't have it both ways dude. How much does eternity weigh?

Originally posted by Silent Master
Iron-man vs Superman = Iron-man wins, because he's invincible.

Except for the fact that he's been beaten before on panel. On panel, the book was said to contain infinite pages (thus being infinitely heavy). Unless you can provide a scan showing that this was just hyperbole (ie the book does NOT have infinite pages) or a scan showing a retcon of this feat, you got nothing.

The book had infinite pages and hence INFINITE weight. There is NO strength feat that anyone could come up with that's gonna top lifting "half" of an item with infinite weight.

Originally posted by Mindset
How much does eternity weigh?

The weight of "eternity" is debatable. The weight of an object with INFINITE pages really isn't, it's INFINITELY heavy.

what if the pages are weightless? for that matter, there are many situations where you can add up an "infinite" number of things and get a finite answer (in fact, that's the entire premise behind calculus).

Originally posted by King Kandy
what if the pages are weightless?

Then why need CM's help in lifting it? Why struggle with it's weight at all?

Originally posted by King Kandy
what if the pages are weightless?
Then why would they be struggling?

Originally posted by Omega Vision
Then why would they be struggling?

Jinx!

Originally posted by zopzop
Then why need CM's help in lifting it? Why struggle with it's weight at all?
yeah, i edited my post because i realized that... still, infinite # of things does not automatically mean the sum of them all is infinite.

Originally posted by psycho gundam
i guess, ultraman lifted it solo, but dwelling on these types of feats is pointless. superman has better lifting/strength feats that are more applicable to "normal" situations.

if the book is or is not infinite in mass, it doesn't change the fact that superman is one of the strongest beings in comics. i could personally forget it even happened.

same. He has better feats like you said.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
Then why would they be struggling?

what do you mean "they"?

Originally posted by zopzop
Then why need CM's help in lifting it? Why struggle with it's weight at all? hopefully you are seeing how fuktarded this all is

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
Might I point out that Superman and Wonder Woman both supported Spectre's weight, which was called the weight of eternity.

You can't have it both ways dude.

No, it wasn't.

Originally posted by zopzop
Except for the fact that he's been beaten before on panel. On panel, the book was said to contain infinite pages (thus being infinitely heavy). Unless you can provide a scan showing that this was just hyperbole (ie the book does NOT have infinite pages) or a scan showing a retcon of this feat, you got nothing.

The book had infinite pages and hence INFINITE weight. There is NO strength feat that anyone could come up with that's gonna top lifting "half" of an item with infinite weight.

And Superman has failed on panel with weight that was far less than infinite.

This thread is obviously a massive bait thread for sure.

As for the answers considering what these characters are able to do when going all out. I'm not going to answer for Thanos but for Thor and Surfer.

Let's be honest there isn't anything those two can't do that any other high herald flagship powerhouse character could do if the writer wanted to.

That's why I generally put High Herald characters at slight majorities over each other and mostly based on intuition and often times powerset (at this level I think the more you bring to the table the better your odds are gonna be). Unless there are obvious large discrepancies in certain power areas or there are large weaknesses that can be exploited. For instance I think Green Lanterns will always struggle against brawler-Superman level type characters because its been shown enough that Green Lanterns have a hard time with them such that I believe there is a large physical power discrepancy between them that a Superman/Gladiator/Thor can exploit for a healthy majority.

Most of the time when I give a character this high in power a nod in a category over another character in same power level it's most often a gut feeling unless that character is a role character. For instance I'll never give anyone in high herald a nod over Flash in speed, or give anyone a nod against Superman as a brawler, or give anyone a nod over Surfer in versatility not even a Green Lantern.

It's just there things that they are known to do. I'm not saying they can not be given a run for the money but I'll never give anyone a nod over them.

As for the fact that feats get taken one way for certain characters tend to be based on what the character is most known for. When the chips are down Superman is more likely to pound and out-muscle and out-speed something while Thor will be more likely to let the raw power fly to get the job done. While Flash is more likely to use his speed to get something finished Surfer is more likely to pull out exotic abilities that only he can pull off. Which is why feats for certain characters in certain areas will be rarer then it will be for others.

Which is why we know for a fact Thor can brawl a villain into submission and Surfer can take a beating and speed around and be fast, to know they can and it is within their powerset to do so.

So that is my reply to this obvious thread designed to try to enforce one person's biased perceptive need to make their own favorite such and such power character appear that much better than another high end ridiculously overpowered character or because they dislike such and such character to the point they want to downplay such and such character as much as possible.

When in reality you are dealing with such over-powered characters that there is really hardly anything they can not pull off if needed be.


So to make this reply short. In order to do any of the following you described in this thread you need to be able to produce feats greater than anything a High Herald can do unless you are talking about by the slightest margins.

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
Book said infinite pages, not a big stretch to assume infinite weight. srug Superman Beyond was pretty insane to being with though. why is that? it didnt have infinte volume and we know for a fact that superman cant exert infinite force and that there are stronger characters.

I'm really not sure how these situations and theoreticals apply to Thanos. How can you gauge what it would take in strength using lifting feats as evidence.. when Thanos has no lifting feats. Thus, how can any comparison be made as we have no clue where the bar is for Thanos. Thor okay, he's a hero so he'll have such feats.. Thanos doesn't, so I fail to see how a comparison can be made in terms of strength.

Originally posted by -Pr-
same. He has better feats like you said.



what do you mean "they"?
Cap and Superman.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
Cap and Superman.

Originally posted by -Pr-

ka-dur

Originally posted by -Pr-
Except that iirc, it wasn't stated that Superman couldn't lift it alone. Just because Billy lifted it too, doesn't mean that Superman couldn't do it by himself.

iirc Superman only asks Billy to help him before he even tries to lift it.

It has been a while since I read it though, so if I'm mistaken, then fair enough. But Ultraman seemed to lift it by himself, which either means Ultraman>>>>superman in the arc where they were portrayed as equal (I mean didn't the big blue guy (can never remember his name) say they were to halves of the same whole?) or it only takes superman level strength to lift it.

Billy and Superman struggled to lift it.. and superman ASKED for help. Come on PR.. clearly those two things are mutually inclusive of one another via the writers intent.

Looking at the comic right now.

Aren't they only holding like 5 pages? Thats what is looks like.

Wow.

Well, this thread had potential but then devolved into a Superman feat deconstructing event. As far as that specific feat with Marvel goes, Superman's got way better, consistent, quantifiable, and less sketchy strength feats under his belt. I wouldn't hang on to that feat and use it as a selling point for strength for Kal.

As far as the thread's intent/question, probably a high end and high stakes "everything to lose" or amped Superman could do it.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Wow.

Well, this thread had potential but then devolved into a Superman feat deconstructing event.

Did you really not think that that would happen?

Originally posted by jalek moye
Did you really not think that that would happen?

I hoped it wouldn't, to be honest.

Originally posted by jalek moye
Did you really not think that that would happen?
What, with all the intelligent posters in this forum?

Originally posted by Omega Vision
What, with all the intelligent posters in this forum? Thats what happens as soon as Thor is mentioned in any thread.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
What, with all the intelligent posters in this forum? Guilty as charged 131

Originally posted by Nihilist
Thats what happens as soon as Thor is mentioned in any thread.

Or Superman.

Or Thanos (this isn't an attack on you, btw, so don't take it the wrong way, please)

Or Silver Surfer.

They all have ardent supporters and have people lowball them to various degrees and people on the opposite side of the spectrum who use high feats only. That much I think we -should- all agree on.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Or Superman.

Or Thanos (this isn't an attack on you, btw, so don't take it the wrong way, please)

Or Silver Surfer.

They all have ardent supporters and have people lowball them to various degrees and people on the opposite side of the spectrum who use high feats only. That much I think we -should- all agree on.

NO-LIMITS FALLACY!!!

RABBLE!

Happens with pretty much any popular character here, or if not popular with a devoted fanbase

Originally posted by zopzop
It should be noted, that if Superman really did lift a book with infinite pages (and hence infinite mass) he's upper tier abstract level (Eternity/Infinity).



Point of no return.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Or Superman.

Or Thanos (this isn't an attack on you, btw, so don't take it the wrong way, please)

Or Silver Surfer.

They all have ardent supporters and have people lowball them to various degrees and people on the opposite side of the spectrum who use high feats only. That much I think we -should- all agree on. No offense taken Jake, i completely agree, but the Thor fans have long had a problem with Superman being considered greater than him after Clark ko'd Thor.

Originally posted by Nihilist
No offense taken Jake, i completely agree, but the Thor fans have long had a problem with Superman being considered greater than him after Clark ko'd Thor.



I don't really have an issue with it at all, to be frank. I like Thor more than Superman, but given that:

A.) It was a crossover and treated as non-canon for the purposes of the board (at least last time I checked)

B.) It was a good fight with Clark conceding Thor's about the toughest guy he's ever faced.

C.) Losing to Superman isn't some bad showing that some pretend it is.

D.) Thor generally has epic second winds/re-matches anyway.

I'm cool with it going down as it did. I don't think that fight should be the "be all/end all" of how they would fight and come out 10/10 times, but that's just me. They've both defeated people far more powerful than the other anyway. *shrug*

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
There is no quantifiable feat that a character can do that would place them above Thor strength wise in of itself. Are you saying that there's nothing a character could ever do, that is independent of Thor's universe such that no direct, or indirect comparisons exist, to make you think he is stronger than Thor?

Originally posted by psycho gundam
a mod should have closed the thread after this, cause that's the answer he's looking for

everyone quote it and have a nice day No, what I'm looking for goes beyond Superman, but nice to see the butthurt crew is in full force:

Originally posted by Newjak
This thread is obviously a massive bait thread for sure.

So that is my reply to this obvious thread designed to try to enforce one person's biased perceptive need to make their own favorite such and such power character appear that much better than another high end ridiculously overpowered character or because they dislike such and such character to the point they want to downplay such and such character as much as possible.


Originally posted by OneDumbG0
No feats necessary. All you have to apparently do is:

a). be Superman
b). be Superman
c). be Superman
d). be Superman
e). be Superman

Superman is one of, like two characters who gets lowballed after all. ermmhappy This is called trolling. Just letting you know.

---

7 pages in, and people are ignoring the topic and instead choose to discuss Superman lifting the book for pages on end. Really now?

deconstructing the questions = trolling

also, this bickering over the indeterminate power levels you are questioning was the exact thing I and newjak (and others) predicted, given the bait questions you asked.

you really can't complain when people participate in the thread you make

How are you deconstructing the question?

showing that the underlying qualities in the questions are, themselves, so contentious that your questions essentially become either a debate about those qualities (bickering about superman), or are just straight out invalid/self evident.

Expand on why.

Originally posted by psycho gundam
well, not sure how that came off as trolling You're right, ODG's post was trolling - Newjak's was a random personal attack.

Originally posted by psycho gundam
hopefully you are seeing how fuktarded this all is

Oh no, this isn't even the stupidest thing he's done power wise. How about punching reality? Or sealing a hole in reality with his heat vision? Or taking on the power of an abstract (see the Sun dipped Superman vs Thor with Power Gem thread)?

This character is starting to annoy the xxxx out of me now.

Originally posted by psycho gundam
i can't speak for them

thor and hulk have stupid shit like that also

Hulk no way, Thor I'll believe you. He's Marvel's version of Superman. So yeah....

Originally posted by zopzop
Hulk no way, Thor I'll believe you. He's Marvel's version of Superman. So yeah.... Hulk resisted and moved forward against an attack that repelled reality.

Originally posted by Parmaniac
Hulk resisted and moved forward against an attack that repelled reality.

In the Crossroads where reality isn't all it's cracked up to be. Thor also resisted that attack with ease WHILE fighting off X-ray.

Originally posted by psycho gundam
i can't speak for them I read that as if you were.

This thread isn't about Superman, to make that clear. It's strictly about those characters, and the way they're portrayed in the forum, independently of the opponent.

Originally posted by zopzop
Thor also resisted that attack with ease WHILE fighting off X-ray. Tell me you're not talking about Siege.

And Vector also Repelled reality in the 616 earth realm too.

Originally posted by Parmaniac
Tell me you're not talking about Siege.

No, I'm talking about Avengers 304 I think it was. He withstood Vector going all out while being bombarded full force by X-ray and didn't move or cry out in pain. He then went on to pwn them both. And what happened during Siege?



What issue?

Originally posted by zopzop
What issue? 1 or 2 before he did it in the crossroads.