Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.

Alan Scott as Sentinel vs blood-lust Silver Surfer. No BFR.

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/0/308/78184-99358-alan-scott.jpg vs http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/0/981/87138-63067-silver-surfer.jpg

So is this Sentinel/Max Starheart powered Alan Scott?

Originally posted by illadelph12
So is this Sentinel/Max Starheart powered Alan Scott? yes. edited OP to reflect this.

Alan Scott.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Alan Scott. is it a close fight? remember Surfer is bloodlust (no more pacifist mode) and going all out

Originally posted by Starscream M
is it a close fight? remember Surfer is bloodlust (no more pacifist mode) and going all out

Depends on how much more powerful you think Surfer will be bloodlusted.

Typical Alan is >= Hal or Kyle. With all of the Starheart at his command, he ceases to be High Herald and crosses over into Trans and + territory, imo.

Surfer wins.

Scott's stronger than Ion 2, or maybe 2-3 good GLs, with no stamina limit. The worst part? With the starheart, he no longer has his one weakness against wood. And his constructs pack magic power, in addition to his body being mostly composed of all the magical energy of the starheart.

Surfer's outgunned. A normal Alan could take him for the majority. This one rocks him. He's a GL with the normal GL powers, plus additional magical energies.

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
Scott's stronger than Ion 2, or maybe 2-3 good GLs, with no stamina limit. The worst part? With the starheart, he no longer has his one weakness against wood. And his constructs pack magic power, in addition to his body being mostly composed of all the magical energy of the starheart.

Surfer's outgunned. A normal Alan could take him for the majority. This one rocks him. He's a GL with the normal GL powers, plus additional magical energies. I'd say a normal Alan Scott is stronger than Yat Ion. The man is an absolute beast.

Yat's a punk. And he's Ion 3. Ion 2 was Kyle.

When did Alan get so damn powerful!?

He's been getting more powerful as time progresses. Right before the current JSA arc, during the JLA/JSA crossover, Alan absorbed even more of the Starheart's power.

Ah... this would make sense. I think the last arc I read of JSA was pre-Final Crisis. Who's writing it now? JSA has actually been my favorite comic since Justice Be Done, I just stopped having the money to facilitate continuing this series (among every other) so I'm always stuck in the past when it comes to comics these days.

I believe Gugenheim is writing it at the moment. James Robinson was the one who did the last JSA/JLA crossover in which Alan was possessed by the Starheart once more, tamed its power and became more powerful and even created an emerald city on the moon.

Scott.

Alan

Originally posted by Blight
Ah... this would make sense. I think the last arc I read of JSA was pre-Final Crisis. Who's writing it now? JSA has actually been my favorite comic since Justice Be Done, I just stopped having the money to facilitate continuing this series (among every other) so I'm always stuck in the past when it comes to comics these days.

Did you read FC btw?

Originally posted by Tricksterpriest

Did you read FC btw? I'm actually reading it right now. Just got to the point where that dude solves the rubiks cube in 17 moves and then everything blows up.....

I highly recommend you finish all the tie ins at this point. You need to read Superman Beyond and L3W. The rest are important, but those 2 are necessary.

Surfer

I read Rogue's Revenge and that thing was INCREDIBLE!!! So far I find it a lot more enjoyable than Final Crisis itself.

Surfer.

Surfer isn't beating someone who took on the JLA/JSA at the same time. His constructs alone were giving them hell.

Originally posted by Prep-Man
Surfer isn't beating someone who took on the JLA/JSA at the same time. His constructs alone were giving them hell. Did you see the foes Black Adam from ww 3 took on ? Does that mean Black Adam is greater or equal to them all ?

What made Alan better than Ion2?

The Jsa/JLa crossover recently gave Scott some (needed) cred as Sentinel. Technically we can't assume all of those levels with him in a forum battle, but it reframed his power levels quite a bit. Not many heroes could credibly act as a villain to both teams.

I may still have Surfer here, but it's an interesting discussion. Alan's raw power seems greater, but he's also more vulnerable to certain attacks from Surfer.

Originally posted by Digi
The Jsa/JLa crossover recently gave Scott some (needed) cred as Sentinel. Technically we can't assume all of those levels with him in a forum battle, but it reframed his power levels quite a bit. Not many heroes could credibly act as a villain to both teams.

I may still have Surfer here, but it's an interesting discussion. Alan's raw power seems greater, but he's also more vulnerable to certain attacks from Surfer.

He easily possed the likes of Dr. Fate as well. And now has full access to the Starheart.

I'm not sure what "full access" means, Prep-Man. What has he done to justify such a statement since the crossover? Besides get his ass beat by Scythe, who apparently is yet another team-killer who can cripple beings made of energy (as Alan is, apparently, according to the doctors).

Anyway, he has to keep the Starheart in check, which I think actually limits his power (if I understood him correctly). Letting sh*t loose, which is technically viable in a forum setting, seems like his best bet.

Punking Fate also isn't a HH feat recently, with this new guy under the helmet. We can't discount the Starheart energy manhandling entire teams in the crossover, but there's a bit more to it than that. Scott himself can still have his concentration disrupted, making him vulnerable to Surfer's attacks. Alan would need to throw the book at him damn fast to avoid that.

Originally posted by Digi
I'm not sure what "full access" means, Prep-Man. What has he done to justify such a statement since the crossover? Besides get his ass beat by Scythe, who apparently is yet another team-killer who can cripple beings made of energy (as Alan is, apparently, according to the doctors).

Anyway, he has to keep the Starheart in check, which I think actually limits his power (if I understood him correctly). Letting sh*t loose, which is technically viable in a forum setting, seems like his best bet.

Punking Fate also isn't a HH feat recently, with this new guy under the helmet. We can't discount the Starheart energy manhandling entire teams in the crossover, but there's a bit more to it than that. Scott himself can still have his concentration disrupted, making him vulnerable to Surfer's attacks. Alan would need to throw the book at him damn fast to avoid that. Quite honestly I think if he starheart blasted full strength and didn't worry about consequences he could very well put down Surfer in one shot let alone adding in constructs or a construct armor.

Originally posted by Uriel005
Quite honestly I think if he starheart blasted full strength and didn't worry about consequences he could very well put down Surfer in one shot let alone adding in constructs or a construct armor. Even though T an dA couldn't do so. Wishful thinking.

Originally posted by Digi
I'm not sure what "full access" means, Prep-Man. What has he done to justify such a statement since the crossover? Besides get his ass beat by Scythe, who apparently is yet another team-killer who can cripple beings made of energy (as Alan is, apparently, according to the doctors).

Anyway, he has to keep the Starheart in check, which I think actually limits his power (if I understood him correctly). Letting sh*t loose, which is technically viable in a forum setting, seems like his best bet.

Punking Fate also isn't a HH feat recently, with this new guy under the helmet. We can't discount the Starheart energy manhandling entire teams in the crossover, but there's a bit more to it than that. Scott himself can still have his concentration disrupted, making him vulnerable to Surfer's attacks. Alan would need to throw the book at him damn fast to avoid that.

That is true, he has to keep it in check, but if we go by the JLA/JSA mode, he was out of control and is going all out. He also did well against Mordru, who was creating pocket universes. Fate has had a few good feats under his belt and the Starheart pretty much turned the world upside down, including all the mages. It's powerful and is quite powerful in putting down Surfer, IMO.

BTW, we don't know much about Scythe, HOWEVER, he did escape from a black hole and beat down an entire team of JSA. Also, grabbing Obsidian in his shadow form. With few appearances, he's quite powerful and will probably lose to Alan in their next match.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Even though T an dA couldn't do so. Wishful thinking.

Don't make me sic Bada on you.

Originally posted by -Pr-
Don't make me sic Bada on you. If you turn bada against me I will never forgive you, blood brother.

Originally posted by quanchi112
If you turn bada against me I will never forgive you, blood brother.

After what you said in this thread, consider yourself disowned.

Originally posted by -Pr-
After what you said in this thread, consider yourself disowned. cry

Originally posted by Prep-Man
That is true, he has to keep it in check, but if we go by the JLA/JSA mode, he was out of control and is going all out. He also did well against Mordru, who was creating pocket universes. Fate has had a few good feats under his belt and the Starheart pretty much turned the world upside down, including all the mages. It's powerful and is quite powerful in putting down Surfer, IMO.

BTW, we don't know much about Scythe, HOWEVER, he did escape from a black hole and beat down an entire team of JSA. Also, grabbing Obsidian in his shadow form. With few appearances, he's quite powerful and will probably lose to Alan in their next match.

Saying Scythe will lose to Alan is blind guessing, not based in anything we've seen so far.

The Starheart messed up all the magic users because it controls DCU magic and is its primary conduit. It's not really applicable to Surfer unless the Starheart gives him control over power cosmic, which it does not.

Current Fate's feats are nothing special. Clearly he has potential, but beating him is not a HH feat. I stand by my earlier statement.

Alan has the raw power to put Surfer down, and more total power than Surfer in sheer output. I haven't seen that disputed. That doesn't equal a win, though, especially because we can't say exactly how the battle would play out. So we're not exactly on opposite sides here, I just have issue with your justifications. We're looking at a split here, regardless of whether or not Alan cedes control of his actions to the Starheart.

Agree to disagree. I don't see Surfer getting even close to Alan, with all those constructs. If 2 teams had a tough time, then Surfer won't be able to do anything as well.

Wait a minute. We're disputing giving a win to a known teambuster.....because it's Surfer? Isn't magic one of the few things Surfer has issues with and can't manipulate?

Nope. That's a board myth. Surfer synthesized the Odin Force on panel via PC, but people tend to only mention the Dracula and Mephisto incidents.

Odin Force? Scan?

Dracula? Mephisto? 2nd, isn't Alan a good boxer as taught by Ted Grant?

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
Wait a minute. We're disputing giving a win to a known teambuster.....because it's Surfer? Isn't magic one of the few things Surfer has issues with and can't manipulate?

I just have issue because his teambusting feats were under the Starheart's control. Alan was still doing stuff, but it wasn't exactly him. He has access to that power and could relinquish control, true. But CIS dictates he would not, and he lacks teambusting feats outside of his Starheart-induced madness.

Odd to be the opposition to Alan here, since he's among my favorite characters, and I don't really care much about Surfer. I'm not exactly in disagreement though, I'm just unsure if we can count that crossover as "in-character" for forum battles where CIS is on as a default.

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
2nd, isn't Alan a good boxer as taught by Ted Grant?

lul

Remember, Alan had crazy power BEFORE he had full access to Starheart. His power alone was able to destroy the solar system or at least it was commented on. He also, was able to speed up time and manipulate better than Surfer ever did.

Alan's best raw power feat was against his (then evil) son. The solar system thing is just talk, just like 99% of the idle talk that we can ignore in comics that is either hyperbole or unbacked by feats. Why even bring it up when you admit it's just commentary on him?

With CIS on, this is a split (maybe not 5/5, but not 10/10 for either), despite Alan's potential being greater. I haven't seen anything to convince me otherwise, and I've read as much JSA as anyone here (and have used or faced Surfer in numerous tourneys) so I'm not speaking from a position of ignorance on either character.

Turn CIS off and yeah, sure, Alan stomps.

Because Alan usually holds back a lot. We've seen him unleashed in the last arc and he took on 2 teams. Something Surfer won't be able to do.

Again Prep-Man, that was under possession of the Starheart itself. That wasn't Alan unleashing, it was him being taken over. In a CIS environment, he's not going to willingly cede control of his body and powers to the Starheart. I'm not sure how else to describe it to you, but you're not going to convince me that a story specifically about the Starheart taking over Alan's body was in fact just Alan cutting loose. In a tourney setting where we dictate such things, perhaps. Here, not so much.

So i can't readily use that arc in a default forum match. As such, and as before, Alan can still win because he's an A-list Green Lantern with a better power source and slightly greater willpower. But he's not immune to Surfer's attacks.

I'm talking before that story ever happened. It's known that he holds back. He's a being of pure energy, yet he's in the hospital.

Originally posted by Prep-Man
I'm talking before that story ever happened. It's known that he holds back. He's a being of pure energy, yet he's in the hospital.

Scythe clearly did something non-traditional to him, his current state doesn't really tell us much.

All big guns hold back most times, it's a necessity. But what feats before the crossover put him clearly above Surfer? Just saying he holds back won't hold under scrutiny for most.

Just as I suspected. Alan pretty much owned Scythe and he couldn't do anything about it. When Alan was unleashed he is beyond top tier, IMO. So, Alan FTW.

Yeah, Alan basically willed himself the ability to fight. Considering Alan's basically willed himself back to life, it's not a huge stretch, especially if he taps into more of the Starheart's power.

Originally posted by Prep-Man
Just as I suspected. Alan pretty much owned Scythe and he couldn't do anything about it. When Alan was unleashed he is beyond top tier, IMO. So, Alan FTW.

Agreed with the result. You still put the chicken before the egg, so to speak. You were granting him the win before we had clear proof that it was likely. The fact that your guess turned out to be right doesn't negate that fact that you were wrong a week ago.



...and let's not forget the first-appearance power boost all characters get. Scythe, if he turns into a recurring villain, may never prove to be higher than low-to-mid tier in terms of feats.

Sentinel.

Originally posted by Digi
Agreed with the result. You still put the chicken before the egg, so to speak. You were granting him the win before we had clear proof that it was likely. The fact that your guess turned out to be right doesn't negate that fact that you were wrong a week ago.



...and let's not forget the first-appearance power boost all characters get. Scythe, if he turns into a recurring villain, may never prove to be higher than low-to-mid tier in terms of feats.

Meh, comics are predictable.

Originally posted by Prep-Man
Meh, comics are predictable.

True, but I still enjoy direct evidence. I suppose it's how I operate more so than others because half my vs. experiences in the past 3-4 years have been judging or competing in tourneys, where appeals to predictability and implied power are basically OHK's to those employing them.

I don't predict that much, but I've been right about 3 times this year so far. I'm losing my love for comics in general.

Recently Alan took down an enemy the entire Justice League where having trouble with. He seems to have internalized the entire energy of the Star Heart. Currently his will power is the only thing that keeps the Star Hearts malevolence at bay. He also created Emerald City, while he lays in his deathbed.


http://img714.imageshack.us/img714/443/55718608.th.jpghttp://img197.imageshack.us/img197/2322/20342916.th.jpg
http://img714.imageshack.us/img714/443/55718608.jpg
http://img197.imageshack.us/img197/2322/20342916.jpg

I see to two open topics. One against the Silver Surfer, and another against Thor. At this point, anything less than King Thor is not going to cut it. As to having the upper hand with Silver Surfer.