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Superman

vs

Wonder Woman
Captain America
Colossus
Wonder Girl
Beast Boy

Superman is not holding back. Fight is to the death.

.

does Beast Boy have access to the same matrix filed (or whatever its called) that Animal Man has access to? I heard Animal Man could turn into some pretty powerful creatures.

What are Captain America and Colossus going to do here?

Um, well, lol.

Wonder Woman can get 4 or so wins out of ten by herself, and the only team member who could even reasonably do ANYTHING to Superman would be Cassie, and even that would be a long shot.

What I would see happening here is not that much unlike how SBP went down. Supes blitzes Cassie, she uses her super durable bracers to absorb the impact, and Wondy capitalizes on his distraction with something lethal like the tiara toss. Wonder Girl's life being in danger is likely to force her to go for blood and I think that's what we would see here.

Originally posted by marwash22
does Beast Boy have access to the same matrix filed (or whatever its called) that Animal Man has access to? I heard Animal Man could turn into some pretty powerful creatures. If we're talking about the 52 upgrade...

Animal Man gained access to the morphogenic field of the entire universe, allowing him to replicate the powers of any animal in the DCU that exists or has existed.

Beast Boy never got that sort of power up, as far as I'm aware.

Originally posted by Konton
Wonder Woman can get 4 or so wins out of ten by herself no. she's not beating Superman... at all. the only way that's happening is if he is jobbing, being mind controlled, or she does a sneak attack with that lasso. If Supes and Wondy square up, Superman will always win.

Originally posted by marwash22
no. she's not beating Superman... at all. the only way that's happening is if he is jobbing, being mind controlled, or she does a sneak attack with that lasso. If Supes and Wondy square up, Superman will always win. Has Wondy ever tried to kill Clark? I'm sure she could get 3 wins that way easily with her magical weapons and magical lightning. We know Superman doesn't do well with magical lightning.

Originally posted by ymebada
Has Wondy ever tried to kill Clark? I'm sure she could get 3 wins that way easily with her magical weapons and magical lightning. We know Superman doesn't do well with magical lightning. So you still believe she loses the majority in a 10 fight scenario.

Originally posted by quanchi112
So you still believe she loses the majority in a 10 fight scenario. Superman is the strongest mele character in comics. No brick can beat him IMO without some serious skill and speed. WW has that. So she gets 4 wins.

nah, she gets none. zero. zilch. not one damn victory. If they are both trying to kill each other, she's dead. Not saying she wouldn't get her shots in, but she's not winning the fight in the end.

Originally posted by marwash22
nah, she gets none. zero. zilch. not one damn victory. If they are both trying to kill each other, she's dead. Not saying she wouldn't get her shots in, but she's not winning the fight in the end. Superman has already tried to kill WW. She has magical lightning. Superman doesn't do well against that. CM has already pwned him with it before. She has a tiara that can easily kill Superman. She has a lasso that she can use to heal herself if she needs to or provide extra striking power. And she's damn near as strong as he is but faster in combat. So yeah, she wins some.

Originally posted by BigSid
What are Captain America and Colossus going to do here?

They become bloodstains in Kal-El's fists.

Originally posted by ymebada
Superman has already tried to kill WW. She has magical lightning. Superman doesn't do well against that. CM has already pwned him with it before. She has a tiara that can easily kill Superman. She has a lasso that she can use to heal herself if she needs to or provide extra striking power. And she's damn near as strong as he is but faster in combat. So yeah, she wins some. irrelevant.

You just said Supes beats her 6-7 times out of ten; this means that you obviously know Superman is superior but for some reason you wanna straddle the fence. Your argument is basically, "if she gets lucky, she won't die fighting him". Saying she only gets 3-4 victories means that she can't beat him with any level of consistency... you're agreeing and disagreeing with me at the same time.

Originally posted by marwash22
You just said Supes beats her 6-7 times out of ten; this means that You obviously know Superman is superior but for some reason you wanna straddle the fence. You're argument is basically, "if she gets lucky, she won't die fighting him". Saying she only gets 3-4 victories means that she can't beat him with any level of consistency... you're agreeing and disagreeing with me at the same time. No. You said she gets no wins. Which is retarded given the fact that we have seen CM abuse Superman with magically charged fist. WW's Lightning actually strikes. So she can abuse Superman with same said power. She has already shown she can go toe to toe with beings in Superman's class. Her magical weapons, speed, skill, ensure she can get at least 4 wins from him.

riiiiight. cool story, bro. So, Superman wins 7 times... what happens differently in those other 3 matches?

Originally posted by ymebada
Superman is the strongest mele character in comics. No brick can beat him IMO without some serious skill and speed. WW has that. So she gets 4 wins. I disagree. I think Hulk is the strongest in melee combat. Originally posted by ymebada
No. You said she gets no wins. Which is retarded given the fact that we have seen CM abuse Superman with magically charged fist. WW's Lightning actually strikes. So she can abuse Superman with same said power. She has already shown she can go toe to toe with beings in Superman's class. Her magical weapons, speed, skill, ensure she can get at least 4 wins from him. Why argue if even you agree she loses the majority which is admitting he's better.

Originally posted by marwash22
riiiiight. so, Superman wins 7 times... what happens differently in those other 3 matches? No. I said WW wins at least 4. Superman would win his matches due to having more offensive projective powers than she. He's also faster in travel speed. And he's more durable. So she would literally have to hit him more times than he hit her. Superman has more options for wins such as vibrating thru her attacks. Vibrating his hand into her skull, etc.

Originally posted by quanchi112
I disagree. I think Hulk is the strongest in melee combat. Why argue if even you agree she loses the majority which is admitting he's better. Not so much better. I believe Superman beats Thor 6 out of 10 as well. But Thor is better and more powerful.

Originally posted by ymebada
Not so much better. I believe Superman beats Thor 6 out of 10 as well. But Thor is better and more powerful. We both agree Superman's far better than WW but Thor I disagree with completely but that's another matter entirely. Take solace in the fact you agree with me Superman is too much for her.

Originally posted by quanchi112
We both agree Superman's far better than WW but Thor I disagree with completely but that's another matter entirely. Take solace in the fact you agree with me Superman is too much for her. I don't. I think Superman is too much for any brick. No one is beating Superman for a majority but the Silver Surfer and matter transmuters like that. I think Thor, WW, Surfer, etc are all better than Superman, but he just wins more often than not against them all except Surfer. I think Superman can even pull wins from Thanos.

Thor is much more than a brick. Problem is more often than not he tends to fight like one with MJOLNIR which is sad.

Originally posted by quanchi112
I disagree. I think Hulk is the strongest in melee combat. Why argue if even you agree she loses the majority which is admitting he's better. this.

what's the point of saying Superman wins, but Wondy still gets the second place trophy in a competition with only two competitors?

Originally posted by ymebada
I don't. I think Superman is too much for any brick. No one is beating Superman for a majority but the Silver Surfer and matter transmuters like that. I think Thor, WW, Surfer, etc are all better than Superman, but he just wins more often than not against them all except Surfer. I think Superman can even pull wins from Thanos. I already said I disagree with that but it's off topic so no point in derailing the thread. Don't ever bring Thanos into this.

Supes is stronger and more durable than she is. When he hits her she is blacking out like in ww 219.

Originally posted by marwash22
this.

what's the point of saying Superman wins, but Wondy still gets the second place trophy in a competition with only two competitors? There is more than Superman and WW in this match. I simply gave my summation of how many wins she would get based upon a scoring system. You answered my reply. I simply answered you back once you answered me.

Originally posted by quanchi112
I already said I disagree with that but it's off topic so no point in derailing the thread. Don't ever bring Thanos into this.

Supes is stronger and more durable than she is. When he hits her she is blacking out like in ww 219. Not So. He hit her several times in that arc. And he's hit her other times.To date, he's only got one quick KO of her and that is when he's near the sun. She didn't black out until Superman flew near the sun. He hit her so hard she literally flew from the sun to earth in seconds. That is faster than light. That's like Zoom level punches.

Originally posted by ymebada
Not So. He hit her several times in that arc. And he's hit her other times.To date, he's only got one quick KO of her and that is when he's near the sun. She didn't black out until Superman flew near the sun. He hit her so hard she literally flew from the sun to earth in seconds. That is faster than light. That's like Zoom level punches. Supes was going all out and even she admitted she can't take him directly on. She clearly loses the majority as you yourself freely admit.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Supes was going all out and even she admitted she can't take him directly on. She clearly loses the majority as you yourself freely admit. He was going all out but didn't knock her out until he got a sun amp. hmm. They've fought several times and in all their history he's never ko'd her except once next to the sun. Hmm. Doesn't take much intelligence to see his sun amped punch is what Ko'd her. This guy right here is Superman's equal and he couldn't even KO Wondy. http://www.picamatic.com/show/2008/10/23/12/50/1228450_500x735.jpg

Originally posted by ymebada
He was going all out but didn't knock her out until he got a sun amp. hmm. They've fought several times and in all their history he's never ko'd her except once next to the sun. Hmm. Doesn't take much intelligence to see his sun amped punch is what Ko'd her. This guy right here is Superman's equal and he couldn't even KO Wondy. http://www.picamatic.com/show/2008/10/23/12/50/1228450_500x735.jpg The man took her to the sun because she was unable to stop him from just manhandling her. Also her tactics involved animals distracting him and fleeing the scene which is a forfeit on kmc. WW has never beaten him, right ?

This is all pointless we both agree she's outclassed.

Originally posted by quanchi112
The man took her to the sun because she was unable to stop him from just manhandling her. Also her tactics involved animals distracting him and fleeing the scene which is a forfeit on kmc. WW has never beaten him, right ?

This is all pointless we both agree she's outclassed. Wait? Using animals to distract him? I thought she was trying to get to Max Lord. Didn't seem like WW was fighting Superman for real. She even said she held back in the comic. Also, She's clearly strong enough to test his strength.
http://www.picamatic.com/show/2008/10/23/09/01/1230308_1024x1587.jpg

Originally posted by ymebada
Wait? Using animals to distract him? I thought she was trying to get to Max Lord. Didn't seem like WW was fighting Superman for real. She even said she held back in the comic. Also, She's clearly strong enough to test his strength.
http://www.picamatic.com/show/2008/10/23/09/01/1230308_1024x1587.jpg She used animals to distract him to get to Lord. Yes, she evaded him as we saw directly head on she couldn't take much. She was concessed at least once during the fight.

Originally posted by quanchi112
She used animals to distract him to get to Lord. Yes, she evaded him as we saw directly head on she couldn't take much. She was concessed at least once during the fight. post it because I don't remember that all.

Originally posted by ymebada
post it because I don't remember that all. I guess you admit I am right since you admit you don't remember the fight now.

Originally posted by quanchi112
I guess you admit I am right since you admit you don't remember the fight now. Actually I am saying you are wrong. She never says she can't fight him head up.

Let's not forget before she sent animals after him, he was... lying in a crater, and had been for awhile, after she kicked him. He sloooowly got up. She was in the better shape at that point.

Then he flew after her and she cut his throat, at which point he was at her mercy. Clear win. Him on the ground unable to move without bleeding out from the throat.


Yea, she can't win in a hit-back-and-forth, and he has the advantage in the air, but she's more skilled in melee which resulted in her getting more hits when they were on the ground, and she also has stuff other than hits some of which will get instant wins.

"She has to use tactics to apply her attacks better/avoid his attacks to win," is a poor argument since she is an expert tactician and that is what she does.


It's like complaining that Batman uses smoke bombs when fighting a super strong foe. It's part of the power set.


Also, let's mention that since Sacrifice she got a new advantage as well, the Lightning of Zeus from her bracers. She's better off than the time she beat him.


Originally posted by marwash22
no. she's not beating Superman... at all. the only way that's happening is if he is jobbing, being mind controlled, or she does a sneak attack with that lasso. If Supes and Wondy square up, Superman will always win.

She actually did beat him in Sacrifice, in which the only thing the mind control did was make him not hold back and be ultra-aggresive. That's what made it so much better than most mind-controlled; Clark didn't have his mind puppeted or his combat skills effected. He was using his powers in combination more than normal, from what we saw he was fighting in a highly skilled way, pretty much how KMC normally would want him to fight in an optimal bloodlusted manner- speedblitz with heat vision and strength used in combination right into the sun.


It impresses me how people can say she can't win when she can and has won, with her getting an upgrade since then to boot. Not a good kind of impress really, more of a silly kind of impressive.

^I'm too lazy to read the entire thing but the first two parts are bull. Superman was getting up in like two panels IIRC. Hell, the entire thing happened in under 2 minutes. Superman was up in a second or two. And Diana cutting a delusional Superman with her tiara is by no means a legit win. The size difference between Diana and Doomsday alone would give her an advantage.

----------

Superman is clearly physically superior to Diana physically by a noticeable amount.

An all out non-delusional Superman would manhandle and snap Diana's neck imo. She can hold her own against a regular Superman and takes a few, but the fight is only as competitive as it is because Clark allows it to be. If Diana fights an all out Superman 10 times, I give it to Clark 8-9/10.

Not a knock against Diana, just the truth based on their histories. If all she can do is survive under Rucka (The gender traitor who even admitted that he was in the minority with how they compare IIRC)....

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
^I'm too lazy to read the entire thing but the first two parts are bull. Superman was getting up in like two panels IIRC. Hell, the entire thing happened in under 2 minutes. Superman was up in a second or two. And Diana cutting a delusional Superman with her tiara is by no means a legit win. The size difference between Diana and Doomsday alone would give her an advantage.

----------

Superman is clearly physically superior to Diana physically by a noticeable amount.

An all out non-delusional Superman would manhandle and snap Diana's neck imo. She can hold her own against a regular Superman and takes a few, but the fight is only as competitive as it is because Clark allows it to be. If Diana fights an all out Superman 10 times, I give it to Clark 8-9/10.

Not a knock against Diana, just the truth based on their histories. If all she can do is survive under Rucka (The gender traitor who even admitted that he was in the minority with how they compare IIRC).... Are you kidding? He's not so much over her physically. If he were, then she wouldn't have been able to over power Amazo who uses Superman's strength. And He wouldn't need her help in task such as hitting general eiling. Clearly she is near his equal. The fact that they flew to the sun as well as back, and the fight was under two mins, adding in the time that the birds were moving, clearly shows they were fighting at light speeds or near it. Anyone who can fight Superman on those terms no slouch. Besides, Wonder Woman didn't have her magical lighting in sacrifice. We already know that magical lightning from Zeus hurts Superman, ALOT. Ask Captain Marvel.

Originally posted by ymebada
Wait? Using animals to distract him? I thought she was trying to get to Max Lord. Didn't seem like WW was fighting Superman for real. She even said she held back in the comic. Also, She's clearly strong enough to test his strength.
http://www.picamatic.com/show/2008/10/23/09/01/1230308_1024x1587.jpg

She may be on a similar level in strength, but he is clearly MUCH MUCH stronger, and faster. I mean he snapped her wrist without even trying in that fight. Lets also not forget that WW also had green K in her hand when she got smacked back to earth. So that should just about take away any amp supes had at the moment. Superman physically dominates WW 10 out of 10 times. She stands no chance at all purely physically. When you bring the lasso into play though, I can give WW a couple wins.

Oh wow, this is more of the silly kind of impressive

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
^I'm too lazy to read the entire thing but the first two parts are bull. Superman was getting up in like two panels IIRC. Hell, the entire thing happened in under 2 minutes. Superman was up in a second or two.

Sure, he got back up, after she had time to just stand there and fix her wrist, so more than a second or two... but when he did he wasn't looking good. The guy had a visible limp!



Hah! So, using a weapon- which she always had -and hit him from head on -which he can see coming- and that doesn't count as a win? When he's shown to not be blind to her weapons?

You're really bending over backwards here.



Except he wasn't fighting like she was Doomsday size. Heck, he even dodged the lasso!

Superman was not ignoring her advantages.




Yes, and she has other advantages to counter that.

You know, other advantages? Weapons, reflexes, hth skills, etc..


What is it that makes you think Diana's not going to use her whole power set?




Clearly not. Superman was fighting in a way using his powers properly and avoiding her attacks as if she was Diana, not Doomsday. Doomsday was the motive, but Superman wasn't displaying flaws in his fighting aside from aggressiveness.... which is what he has here, from Bloodlust.



Except it's happened, and it didn't.




Except they've fought not once, but many times, and stalemate is the norm.


It's really funny how "Oh, Superman could win easily if he was really trying! If Diana doesn't use her full powerset, and we ignore how Superman was both fighting with all of his powers and not holding back at all and lost," is the prevailing opinion of not one but several posters here.


Guess what? I don't think Superman's beaten Wonder Woman once outside of Elseworlds and the like. Wonder Woman admits he has some edge, but this mythical easy win, or even overwhelming majority win, simply doesn't exist in canon.

Originally posted by snyper1982
She may be on a similar level in strength, but he is clearly MUCH MUCH stronger, and faster. I mean he snapped her wrist without even trying in that fight.

And she bruised his ribs without even trying in that fight, and cut his neck without even trying.

Stronger and faster, sure, but not *that* much, and she's more skilled and has better reflexes/HtH speed.



But she does have the lasso. And the tiara. And the bracers, which are even better now than they are then!

Yes, if Wonder Woman loses *all of her advantages*, she'll lose. I wouldn't say quite ten out of ten, but most of the time.

The issue is, she does have those things, almost all of the time.

I love Superman too death but I think He can ONLY beat Diana if he is significantly faster than her.

If he's not then she just counters his strikes with tiara combos (tiara in hand used as a knife hand weapon) or a lasso counter (after first getting a hitting stun in).

But, The vibration maneuvering of Superman may prove impossible for Diana to stop. I don't know yet.

In my opinion Wonder Woman is very close to Superman in overall powers so with help I say she wins majority

Originally posted by Q99
And she bruised his ribs without even trying in that fight, and cut his neck without even trying.

Stronger and faster, sure, but not *that* much, and she's more skilled and has better reflexes/HtH speed.



But she does have the lasso. And the tiara. And the bracers, which are even better now than they are then!

Yes, if Wonder Woman loses *all of her advantages*, she'll lose. I wouldn't say quite ten out of ten, but most of the time.

The issue is, she does have those things, almost all of the time.

You clearly DON'T read much DC. Superman has some of the most amazing strength feats in all of comics, period. Not only that but you keep saying how WW is this tactical master, much better H2H speed and reflexes, etc, but you will never EVER find any proof to support any of that. So she bruised, him while he snapped her wrist.... Really? Thats the best you can come up with? Not only Is superman FAR FAR FAR more durable, his healing factor is much better as well. He healed from that cut throat in only a few pannels while WW wrist was still brooken much farther into the story...

I am not knocking WW, she is an amazing character in her own right, and one of the premiere females in all of comics, she is like the female analogue to Superman. It would be like putting Gina Corrano in the ring with someone like Fedor or Brock Lesnar. Corano loses EVERY SINGLE TIME. She may have faster hands and better reflexes, but it is just not enough. She stands no chance in hell purely physically.

Not only that but if it were TRULY a blood lusted superman, he could vaporize her with his heat vision. She has nothing in her arsenal to stop him from doing that...

Superman. He'd have trouble with Diana and Cassie, but he'd manage.

On the subject of Diana Vs Clark, she'd win maybe one or two, but even when he wins, she doesn't exactly make it easy on him.