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When I say super Buu I mean Buu after he absorbed Mystic Gohan/Gotenks/etc.

vs.

Goku right after he went SSJ4 against Baby.

I know the latter isnt a canon transformation, but since both combatants are immensely more powerful than a SSJ3, this battle has always intrigued me.

Battle takes place on an indestructible planet.

Super Saiyan 4 Goku stomps and bad at that.

how so? SSJ3 goku was absolutely nothing in comparison to super buu /w/ gohan. absolutely nothing. i understand full well that gokus SSJ4 transformation was also well beyond his SSJ3 transformation, but what makes you say that SSJ4 goku was powerful enough that he would have beaten this version of buu so easily?

Depends on how much stronger base GTGoku is to base ZGoku.

^ During GT, kid Goku in his base form was toying with Frieza AND Cell as though they were weak feebs... As powerful as Goku had become by the end of Z, it's hard to imagine him possessing Cell-level power(++) in his base form.

Just my opinion, though.

Is it safe to say that Kid Goku > SSJ2 ZGoku?

I wouldn't say that. After all, SSJ2 Z Goku > SSJ2 kid Gohan > Cell. However, I guess you *could* say that GT kid Goku = SSJ2 kid Gohan, at the very least -- as they both tooled Cell with an extreme degree of ease.

...And that's also assuming Z Cell = GT Cell. I mean, who knows what happened to his power level after he went to hell..? Could have gone up, could have gone down, could have stayed the same. /shrug

True. Assuming that kid Goku = SSJ2 kid Gohan and Cell stayed the same then i can definatly see SSJ4 taking on Buu.

Dunno how to compare Buu's strength to GT unless Uub counts for something.

Goku during GT was in a completely different tier. You all have to remember... during the time cell body was destroyed after Goku teleported him to the ki planet, Cell regained his final form and was "much" more powerful than the Cell that fought Super Saiyan 2 Gohun (his power increased due to his Saiyan side of him.).
So honestly, we don't know how much more powerful cell became due to the fact that he fought an injured Gohun but what we do know is that before, when he fought a fully fresh Gohun, he was unable to do any damage towards him but when he came back, he was able to cripple him with a blast.

Kid Goku DESTROYED Cell and Frieza at the same time, someone who matched a Super Saiyan 2... there really isn't a telling what power level kid Goku super Saiyan form was at... remember, once they go Super Saiyan it increase their power 50 folds.

Goku doesn't need to go Super Saiyan 4 to destroy Super Buu.

Almost forgot to mention something... when Goku was reverted into a child, it weakened his power level.

Originally posted by BloodRain
Dunno how to compare Buu's strength to GT unless Uub counts for something. For a guy who was supposed to be the reincarnation of Majin Buu, Uub was pure weaksauce right from the start -- and that really never changed. They could have done SO much more with him.

Originally posted by carver9
Goku during GT was in a completely different tier. You all have to remember... during the time cell body was destroyed after Goku teleported him to the ki planet, Cell regained his final form and was "much" more powerful than the Cell that fought Super Saiyan 2 Gohun (his power increased due to his Saiyan side of him.).
So honestly, we don't know how much more powerful cell became due to the fact that he fought an injured Gohun but what we do know is that before, when he fought a fully fresh Gohun, he was unable to do any damage towards him but when he came back, he was able to cripple him with a blast.

Kid Goku DESTROYED Cell and Frieza at the same time, someone who matched a Super Saiyan 2... there really isn't a telling what power level kid Goku super Saiyan form was at... remember, once they go Super Saiyan it increase their power 50 folds.

Goku doesn't need to go Super Saiyan 4 to destroy Super Buu.

Almost forgot to mention something... when Goku was reverted into a child, it weakened his power level. Sort of agree.

Kid Goku in his base form possessed -no less than- early SSJ2-level power. That much was blatantly clear by the ease in which he tooled Cell (a being with -no less than- early SSJ2-level power.) However, it's hard/nearly impossible to determain where his power level went beyond that. My guess is that he would have gained the 'proportional' boosts in power in the first two levels of SSJ -- but once he got to the third level, his power level *obviously* plummeted thanks to his child's body not being able to handle the tremendous strain that comes with that form.

But yeah, if you look solely at kid Goku's base form showing against Cell, it really is safe to assume that if he could have utilized the SSJ3 transformation to its best during GT, he would have been a LOT more powerful than he was as a SSJ3 during Z -- then factor in the enormous power boost he gained upon becoming a SSJ4, and it's logical to assume that he'd smoke Super Buu, imo.

SSJ4 Goku vs. SSJ2 Vegitto would have been a better match.

3 things stated in GT;

-General Ridu = Majin Buu by Goku.
-UuB = Kid Buu by Goku, more +Fat Buu fusion.
-SSJ4 Goku on his first appearance is the strongest being in history by Elder Kai.

By that SSJ4Goku > SSJ2Vegeto.

Originally posted by BloodRain
-SSJ4 Goku on his first appearance is the strongest being in history by Elder Kai. There you go.

we don't know how super saiyan 3 goku would have faired, he doesn't really cut loose as a super saiyan 3 until he fights kid buu. But a super saiyan 4 should be equal to super vegito maybe even a touch stronger I mean each new super saiyan transformation makes the previous one look like nothing. And yes I found it strange that an 8 to 10 year old goku in his base form treated cell like he was nothing, goku couldn't have gotten that much stronger, he should have at least been a super saiyan to do that, frieza I can understand but cell who could have transformed into his super perfect form which around about equalled super saiyan 2 gohan. although i think he's lost that power considering his pitiful display against pikkon and kid goku.

In 12 years Goku went from fighting Freeza to fighting Buu, we all know how much he increased in this time. By GT its been 14 years since he fought Buu, thats 21 years since Cell.
Note that it only took Goku 5 years to train Uub to Majin Buu's level.

Id be surprised if he wasn't strong enough to take them both on at base.

Originally posted by KAIKAGE
we don't know how super saiyan 3 goku would have faired, he doesn't really cut loose as a super saiyan 3 until he fights kid buu. But a super saiyan 4 should be equal to super vegito maybe even a touch stronger I mean each new super saiyan transformation makes the previous one look like nothing. And yes I found it strange that an 8 to 10 year old goku in his base form treated cell like he was nothing, goku couldn't have gotten that much stronger, he should have at least been a super saiyan to do that, frieza I can understand but cell who could have transformed into his super perfect form which around about equalled super saiyan 2 gohan. although i think he's lost that power considering his pitiful display against pikkon and kid goku.


Hhhmmm, I think you are getting it all wrong buddy. The Goku that fought Vegeta at Super Saiyan 2 was already MUCH stronger than the Gohun that fought Cell. Then you have to think about this, Goku AFTER his fight against Vegeta and Fat Buu powers increased due to the beat down he received from Vegeta along with the fight he had against Super Buu where him and Vegeta were getting wrecked. After healing, there is no telling where he was.

By the way, Goku admitted that he could have killed Kid Buu during the beginning of the fight... he stated that he allowed the fight to drag out to long. By the time Goku faced Kid Buu, Gohun Super Saiyan 2 power level was childs play compared to the levels Goku and Vegeta reached. Hell, Goku Super Saiyan 2 matched Kid Buu for a prolong amount of time.

Then you have to think about this... GT happened like 10+ years later, and we are talking about a guy (Goku) that life revolves around NOTHING but training. Him running through Cell and Frieza at base form shouldn't have been surprising at all... then he was holding back. Hell, his power-up almost destroyed heaven and hell and again, he was just holding back.

Looking at that token... me knowing how much Goku thrives to be better than anyone, more powerful than anyone (while loving a challenge), him experiencing that raw power he felt during his moment as Vegeto, I can see him putting a lot of effort in surpassing that amount of power.

Goku as a Super Saiyain during Gt would be around Super Saiyan 3 level during DBZ... Goku Super Saiyan 2... no telling... can't compare him to anything involving DBZ, probably Mistic Gohun level.

Originally posted by Galan007
I wouldn't say that. After all, SSJ2 Z Goku > SSJ2 kid Gohan > Cell. However, I guess you *could* say that GT kid Goku = SSJ2 kid Gohan, at the very least -- as they both tooled Cell with an extreme degree of ease.

...And that's also assuming Z Cell = GT Cell. I mean, who knows what happened to his power level after he went to hell..? Could have gone up, could have gone down, could have stayed the same. /shrug
iirc, Cell claimed that he had gotten stronger due to training in hell.

Originally posted by carver9
By the way, Goku admitted that he could have killed Kid Buu during the beginning of the fight... he stated that he allowed the fight to drag out to long. By the time Goku faced Kid Buu, Gohun Super Saiyan 2 power level was childs play compared to the levels Goku and Vegeta reached. Hell, Goku Super Saiyan 2 matched Kid Buu for a prolong amount of time. Furthermore, I doubt SSJ2 Vegeta would have even been given the opportunity to fight Kid Buu if Goku didn't think he had a chance of winning.

Originally posted by King Kandy
iirc, Cell claimed that he had gotten stronger due to training in hell. Even better showing for Goku, then.

If Cell actually did train in hell to become stronger, I didn't see much improvement from him when he and Frieza fought Goku, if any. I did notice though that Frieza had become more or less equal to Cell in power, which was likely thanks to him receiving some lessons from Cell himself.

^And from most likely training before Cell arrived.

Originally posted by Ridley_Prime
If Cell actually did train in hell to become stronger, I didn't see much improvement from him when he and Frieza fought Goku, if any. I did notice though that Frieza had become more or less equal to Cell in power, which was likely thanks to him receiving some lessons from Cell himself.

What was it you were expecting Cell to do during his fight? He claimed that he was more powerful and he also showed different techniques. Frieza increase in power is proof enough that people in Hell were actually training to become more powerful, especially since all of them had the thought of facing Goku again.

Well for someone who Goku once surrendered against and had his son fight in his place, Cell sure didn't seem like the same menace at all in GT. So he trained all that time in hell and yet he didn't even make Goku go beyond his base form when he and Frieza fought him together?