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It all started with a crazy arguement. So I figured, why not take him at his word? ermmhappy Brought to you by Quanchi with a little help from TricksterPriest,

HERE IS

HEART OF THE UNIVERSE AS WIELDED BY THANOS

VS.

THE PRESENCE

READY,


FIGHT!!!!! boxing

Thanos easily absorbs all of the dcu. That's what makes up the presence and Thanos has already shown this ability.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Thanos easily absorbs all of the dcu. That's what makes up the presence and Thanos has already shown this ability. Thanos also showed us his ability to lose to squirrel girl in a legit fight as backed by the watcher.

Originally posted by Uriel005
Thanos also showed us his ability to lose to squirrel girl in a legit fight as backed by the watcher. That's irrelevant to a thread in which thanos has the heart plus I don't view it as canon. Either way irrelevant to this thread.

Presence.

I've seen Thanos capture Eternity and LT plus every other god in stasis before. Not TOAA though.

Presence is equal to TOAA which means he is > HOTU

Originally posted by quanchi112
Thanos easily absorbs all of the dcu. That's what makes up the presence and Thanos has already shown this ability.

That's what makes up the Presence?

Seems strange seeing how The Presence existed before there was any universe or dimensions of any kind and then created it all :/

Last I checked, the Presence wasn't part of the Multiverse. Unless someone wants to correct me?

Originally posted by AlmightyKfish
That's what makes up the Presence?

Seems strange seeing how The Presence existed before there was any universe or dimensions of any kind and then created it all :/ As stated in paradise lost. That's why asmodel's plan failed he had no way to attack all of creation.

Presence wins by being THE supreme being. That said, HOTU would shit stomp Spectre with ease

Originally posted by quanchi112
That's irrelevant to a thread in which thanos has the heart plus I don't view it as canon. Either way irrelevant to this thread.

Even with HOTU, Squirrel Girl would beat Thanos.

Presence wins this battle.

These kinda thread suck.

Originally posted by BullwinkleMoose
Even with HOTU, Squirrel Girl would beat Thanos.

Presence wins this battle. In a fun book not canon but in reality Thanos is better than her with or without the hotu. Let's stick to the topic though, k.

Originally posted by quanchi112
In a fun book not canon but in reality Thanos is better than her with or without the hotu. Let's stick to the topic though, k.

Actually no, on this forum Squirrel Girl pretty much beats everyone. Arguing about it won't end well.

Originally posted by -Pr-
Actually no, on this forum Squirrel Girl pretty much beats everyone. Arguing about it won't end well. Well then I disagree wholeheartedly.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Well then I disagree wholeheartedly.

You have a heart? Thanos is disappoint.

Originally posted by -Pr-
You have a heart? Thanos is disappoint. Alright you got me there. I had a heart once, true story.

HOTU gets stomped

Originally posted by quanchi112
Alright you got me there. I had a heart once, true story.

Originally posted by Badabing

Originally posted by Badabing
I can be such a kidder sometimes.

They are equal... HOTU is the power of God, the same as the real "God" of marvel (not the writers).

Presence.

Easy.

Originally posted by Black bolt z
Presence.

Easy. How ?

Originally posted by quanchi112
How ? Simply by being, of course

Originally posted by Blight
Simply by being, of course There's no logical case for how the presence wins nor has there ever been.

Originally posted by Black bolt z
Presence.

Easy.

Originally posted by quanchi112
There's no logical case for how the presence wins nor has there ever been. Logic dictates otherwise innuendur

Originally posted by quanchi112
There's no logical case for how the presence wins nor has there ever been. Originally posted by Blight
Logic dictates otherwise innuendur

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
HEART OF THE UNIVERSE AS WIELDED BY THANOS That is why the heart loses. As powerful as Thanos became, he was still FAR from the omniscient being that the 'real' God/Presence is.

Originally posted by Blight
Logic dictates otherwise innuendur Thanos absorbs all of creation which is the presence.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Thanos absorbs all of creation which is the presence. lol presence is not part of creation he was before and beyond it...

Originally posted by Uriel005
lol presence is not part of creation he was before and beyond it... Did you not read paradise lost ? They flat out state he is everything.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Thanos absorbs all of creation which is the presence. *****, Please! kinda

Originally posted by Blight
*****, Please! kinda It's quite logical and backed up by both paradise lost and thanos' the end. Care to tell me why he can't ?

Originally posted by quanchi112
It's quite logical and backed up by both paradise lost and thanos' the end. Care to tell me why he can't ? Well I mean.... he can't... that's why bashful

Originally posted by Blight
Well I mean.... he can't... that's why bashful Just say thanos wins so I can move on, already.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Just say thanos wins so I can move on, already. Buuuuut he doesn't..

Originally posted by Blight
Buuuuut he doesn't.. Unlike Cronus Thanos won't go mad when he absorbs the presence.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Unlike Cronus Thanos won't go mad when he absorbs the presence. Suuuuuure he wouldn't

I'm sure if we put TOAA against HOTU, Quan would somehow say that Thanos's willpower exceeds TOAA's.

Cause....he's already claimed his willpower exceeds Lucifer and the Presence. srug

Originally posted by quanchi112
Unlike Cronus Thanos won't go mad when he absorbs the presence.

Didn't they say that the Presence knew what was going on all alone. He just choose not to interfere, and the power Cronos came in contact with was just a small portion.

Cronos, much like Asmodel, was outmaneuvered. Granted, they wrecked havoc for awhile, but ultimately, when it came down to it, The Presence was able to step in and put a stop to it the moment it decided to intervene.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Unlike Cronus Thanos won't go mad when he absorbs the presence. He's already mad.

Hence "Mad Titan."

Originally posted by Blight
Suuuuuure he wouldn't His willpower has already shown up to the task of being supreme as in Thanos' the end. Do you have any knowledge at all pertaining this topic ?

Originally posted by SquallX
Didn't they say that the Presence knew what was going on all alone. He just choose not to interfere, and the power Cronos came in contact with was just a small portion. No, this was never stated. Cronus wasn't up to the task of taking that much power and it drive him over the edge. Thanos has already shown himself quite capable of wielding supreme power.

Originally posted by basilisk
He's already mad.

Hence "Mad Titan." He's crazy in a I can handle it way Cronus was crazy in I can't take this kinda way.

Thanos showed ZERO omniscience. Power, sure. But no control and no cosmic omnipresence.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Do you have any knowledge at all pertaining this topic ?
Yup.

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
Thanos showed ZERO omniscience. Power, sure. But no control and no cosmic omnipresence.

http://img253.imageshack.us/img253/4411/th10kz1.th.jpg


DURRR....

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
I'm sure if we put TOAA against HOTU, Quan would somehow say that Thanos's willpower exceeds TOAA's.

Cause....he's already claimed his willpower exceeds Lucifer and the Presence. srug
TOAA is the writers... it has nothing to do with the presence.

Originally posted by King Kandy
TOAA is the writers... it has nothing to do with the presence.

Well considering THOTU was called the Almighty God of Marvel that would mean it was TOAA or how he wanted to be seen..

Btw Thanos was fooled into this, then couldn't get out of what he had become.. The Presence blinks him out of existance.

Originally posted by King Kandy
http://img253.imageshack.us/img253/4411/th10kz1.th.jpg


DURRR....

If he was that smart, how did he get trapped, huh?

Originally posted by kevdude
Well considering THOTU was called the Almighty God of Marvel that would mean it was TOAA or how he wanted to be seen..

Btw Thanos was fooled into this, then couldn't get out of what he had become.. The Presence blinks him out of existance.
No, not really. The Presence is the almighty God of DC, but he is NOT the writer. For all we know, the god referenced in "the End" is the god within the comics, as opposed to the writer.

He DID get out of what he had become. Did you ever read his mini?

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
If he was that smart, how did he get trapped, huh?
Has nothing to do with being smart... you claimed that he had ZERO omniscience and omnipresence, and I posted a scan of him having exactly those characteristics... you are simply wrong, your claim directly contradicts what is stated on panel.

Yeah, by suicide. He even admitted he got suckered into doing TOAA's job.

Edit: Ok. I was wrong. But he wasn't fully omniscient by his own admission. Otherwise, he would have noticed the trap. Or figured out how to fix it without killing himself, etc.

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
Yeah, by suicide. He even admitted he got suckered into doing TOAA's job.
He didn't kill himself. He is alive and well at the start of his mini and just made himself look like he died.

He at the very least had to arrange his own ressurection and destroy the power of HOTU. It's a technical suicide.

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
He at the very least had to arrange his own ressurection and destroy the power of HOTU. It's a technical suicide.
Its a "technical suicide" = he got out of it without having to kill himself like he thought he would.

That's what i'd call escaping the trap.

Look, bottom line is that Thanos was healthy as a horse after the events of "The End"... the only thing he lost was a power he ended up realizing he didn't want in the first place.

He didn't get to keep ultimate power. I'd call that a win for that universe, and a loss for Thanos.

Originally posted by King Kandy
No, not really. The Presence is the almighty God of DC, but he is NOT the writer. For all we know, the god referenced in "the End" is the god within the comics, as opposed to the writer.

He DID get out of what he had become. Did you ever read his mini?

Right so theres 2 Gods in Marvel??
Yes I've read it, and NO he never got out of what he became.... Considering he had to commit suicide to accomplish the feat, have you read the whole thing?

Originally posted by kevdude
Right so theres 2 Gods in Marvel??
Yes I've read it, and NO he never got out of what he became.... Considering he had to commit suicide to accomplish the feat, have you read the whole thing?
At the start of his mini it shows he didn't really commit suicide.

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
He didn't get to keep ultimate power. I'd call that a win for that universe, and a loss for Thanos.
He didn't want to keep the power. He was tricked into taking it in the first place. I'm not claiming he wasn't tricked, but he most definitely did get out of it fine in the end.

Originally posted by King Kandy
At the start of his mini it shows he didn't really commit suicide.

He tells Warlock he was not hiding he was being reconstituted with his divine might waning (recreating the universe) as he granted himself life assuring wishes.. So yes he did. He thought he had overcome God of MU's will when nothing like that ever happened.

Originally posted by kevdude
He tells Warlock he was not hiding he was being reconstituted with his divine might waning as he granted himself life assuring wishes.. So yes he did. He thought he had overcome God of MU's will when nothing like that ever happened.
Um... so basically you're saying he was able to get out of it just fine in the end. I don't see why its supposed to be some kind of failure on his part since he had no trouble getting around it.

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
Thanos showed ZERO omniscience. Power, sure. But no control and no cosmic omnipresence. You didn't read it either, apparently.

Originally posted by Blight
Yup. Then why do you dispute Thanos winning when he's shown the power to do so.

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
He didn't get to keep ultimate power. I'd call that a win for that universe, and a loss for Thanos. Like any character would keep this power. The point is while he had the power he did what even the supreme being could not making it perhaps the greatest feats in all of comics.

Originally posted by King Kandy
Um... so basically you're saying he was able to get out of it just fine in the end. I don't see why its supposed to be some kind of failure on his part since he had no trouble getting around it.

Yes he got out of it, never said he didn't just how he did it. He learned not to over step his bounds.

Originally posted by kevdude
Yes he got out of it, never said he didn't

Um, that's EXACTLY what you said.

Originally posted by kevdude
Btw Thanos was fooled into this, then couldn't get out of what he had become...

Originally posted by King Kandy
Um, that's EXACTLY what you said.

Not without commiting suicide....

Originally posted by kevdude
Not without commiting suicide....
OK... so what? Its not like that was a problem given that he just came right back. That's like saying resurrection man 1M is the weakest character ever because he has to commit suicide to use his powers. Just because you can apply the word suicide means nothing, in this context there is no permanence or harm that would actually give that word a negative connotation.

Originally posted by kevdude
Not without commiting suicide.... He never killed himself. That's the point he rebirthed reality without having to die. We see that when we saw Thanos again in his own series.

Originally posted by King Kandy
OK... so what? Its not like that was a problem given that he just came right back. That's like saying resurrection man 1M is the weakest character ever because he has to commit suicide to use his powers. Just because you can apply the word suicide means nothing, in this context there is no permanence or harm that would actually give that word a negative connotation.

Not saying Thanos wasn't powerful cause he most defiantly was the most powerful nearly next to Almighty himself..

Originally posted by kevdude
Not saying Thanos wasn't powerful cause he most defiantly was the most powerful nearly next to Almighty himself..
I don't understand why you're saying he "had to commit suicide" to escape then. It wasn't a loss, it was the perfect solution given he could simply choose to resurrect.

Originally posted by quanchi112
He never killed himself. That's the point he rebirthed reality without having to die. We see that when we saw Thanos again in his own series. Yes he did!

And your reality rebirthed from Darkseid's ass! shit

ohno

Originally posted by Badabing
Yes he did!

And your reality rebirthed from Darkseid's ass! shit

ohno


Carver get in here and summon a few more dragon ball z threads for bada. Bada just pmed me unofficially and said you have the green light.

Originally posted by quanchi112
He never killed himself. That's the point he rebirthed reality without having to die. We see that when we saw Thanos again in his own series.

Wishful thinking Quan.

Originally posted by King Kandy
I don't understand why you're saying he "had to commit suicide" to escape then. It wasn't a loss, it was the perfect solution given he could simply choose to resurrect.

He had to unless he would miss his chance at restarting everything at the end of time and he would be alone in the void forever.. It was just a learning process for him to grow and not to crave power. I'd admit he didn't lose at the end and everyone got what they wanted, even Eternity!

Originally posted by quanchi112
Carver get in here and summon a few more dragon ball z threads for bada. Bada just pmed me unofficially and said you have the green light.



emo

Originally posted by kevdude
Wishful thinking Quan.



He had to unless he would miss his chance at restarting everything at the end of time and he would be alone in the void forever.. It was just a learning process for him to grow and not to crave power. I'd admit he didn't lose at the end and everyone got what they wanted, even Eternity! What's wishful thinking ? Thanos found the loophole.

Originally posted by kevdude
He had to unless he would miss his chance at restarting everything at the end of time and he would be alone in the void forever.. It was just a learning process for him to grow and not to crave power. I'd admit he didn't lose at the end and everyone got what they wanted, even Eternity!
Right... it was pretty much the furthest thing from losing... everyone including Thanos himself was better off because of him "committing suicide".

Lol Presence maybe the universe but the universe is not all of the presence... It is a fraction of him. Thanos absorbing multiverse is still below Presence by many leagues.

Originally posted by Uriel005
Lol Presence maybe the universe but the universe is not all of the presence... It is a fraction of him. Thanos absorbing multiverse is still below Presence by many leagues. Thanos has the power of the supreme being and can absorb all of creation if he so chooses.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Thanos has the power of the supreme being and can absorb all of creation if he so chooses. Presence still exists before and beyond creation. Creation is still only a part of him. Not all of him... Not the whole... A mere piece.... A fraction... A component. Get the point.

Originally posted by Uriel005
Presence still exists before and beyond creation. Creation is still only a part of him. Not all of him... Not the whole... A mere piece.... A fraction... A component. Get the point. Based on what ?

Originally posted by quanchi112
Based on what ? the fact that he existed before creation...

Originally posted by Uriel005
the fact that he existed before creation... That doesn't mean he doesn't exist all throughout creation now. My theory is based on a dc comic yours has no merit.

Originally posted by quanchi112
That doesn't mean he doesn't exist all throughout creation now. My theory is based on a dc comic yours has no merit.

i think i read a scan somewhere where synnar said that the Demiurge was the one who created everything..and the Presence is above Demiurge which mean the Presence is above all of creation..

Originally posted by Slaanesh
i think i read a scan somewhere where synnar said that the Demiurge was the one who created everything..and the Presence is above Demiurge which mean the Presence is above all of creation.. That's abc logic I have a scan describing the presence and where he exists. You can't use a story later on to describe the presence and loosely try to make a connection between the two.

Originally posted by quanchi112
That's abc logic I have a scan describing the presence and where he exists. You can't use a story later on to describe the presence and loosely try to make a connection between the two.
you certainly can... its called a retcon. Kind of like how when Thanos describes a Thanosi doing something, it means he didn't do it himself.

Originally posted by King Kandy
you certainly can... its called a retcon. Kind of like how when Thanos describes a Thanosi doing something, it means he didn't do it himself. That doesn't change the fact the presence resides in all of creation. Different writers describe the universe forming in different ways I don't see these all as retcons just a writer's tool for that particular story.

.......durpalm Quan was bad enough. You can go to hell too Kandy.

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
.......durpalm Quan was bad enough. You can go to hell too Kandy.
what exactly are you objecting to? right now, i'm saying the exact opposite of him, so if we're both wrong, what would you consider "right"?

Originally posted by quanchi112
That doesn't change the fact the presence resides in all of creation. Different writers describe the universe forming in different ways I don't see these all as retcons just a writer's tool for that particular story.
I would actually agree with this, but I don't think you consistently use this perspective, you just say that when its convenient to your point.

Originally posted by King Kandy
I would actually agree with this, but I don't think you consistently use this perspective, you just say that when its convenient to your point. Then just agree with. There are always exceptions I think it's hard sometimes for us comic fans who try to make everything fit together when comics by their very nature are inconsistent.

The Thanos retcons are specific.

Originally posted by quanchi112
That doesn't change the fact the presence resides in all of creation. Different writers describe the universe forming in different ways I don't see these all as retcons just a writer's tool for that particular story. Just because the presence resides in all creation does not make creation all of the presence. Presence existed before creation and its power is still absolute beyond the context of the DC multiverse.

Originally posted by Uriel005
Just because the presence resides in all creation does not make creation all of the presence. Presence existed before creation and its power is still absolute beyond the context of the DC multiverse. It was explained point blank in paradise lost. Asmodel would have to destroy creation itself which is the same reason Lucy's assault failed. Thanos absorbs creation easily. Thanos stomps.

Originally posted by quanchi112
It was explained point blank in paradise lost. Asmodel would have to destroy creation itself which is the same reason Lucy's assault failed. Thanos absorbs creation easily. Thanos stomps. ... absorbing creation still doesn't beat presence... he is beyond creation.

Originally posted by Uriel005
... absorbing creation still doesn't beat presence... he is beyond creation. Not according to paradise lost. He is everything in all of dc's creation and cronus actually took the presence's power in heaven directly. Thanos can easily do so. My argument is backed by the comics yours isn't.

Seriously how is this still open?

Presence is god.

You don't beat god.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Not according to paradise lost. He is everything in all of dc's creation and cronus actually took the presence's power in heaven directly. Thanos can easily do so. My argument is backed by the comics yours isn't. except that no matter how you look at it Presence still came before creation.

Yo.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Thanos easily absorbs all of the dcu. That's what makes up the presence and Thanos has already shown this ability.

so wat if somebody w/HOTU absorbs all of creation? that line of thinking means that The Presence is ONLY wat was made, and not MUCH MORE THAN THAT........which is exactly the case.

to put it bluntly: if U destroy a mans house.......does that mean the man is destroyed?




Tazer

Originally posted by Uriel005
except that no matter how you look at it Presence still came before creation. So what ? He resides in all of creation now so who cares what came before. Thanos wins.

Originally posted by Tazer
Yo.



so wat if somebody w/HOTU absorbs all of creation? that line of thinking means that The Presence is ONLY wat was made, and not MUCH MORE THAN THAT........which is exactly the case.

to put it bluntly: if U destroy a mans house.......does that mean the man is destroyed?




Tazer This was cited on panel as how to defeat or attack the presence which Thanos can do.

Originally posted by quanchi112
So what ? He resides in all of creation now so who cares what came before. Thanos wins.

This was cited on panel as how to defeat or attack the presence which Thanos can do. still wrong.

Yo.

Originally posted by quanchi112
So what ? He resides in all of creation now so who cares what came before. Thanos wins.

This was cited on panel as how to defeat or attack the presence which Thanos can do.

not saying he couldnt, but just cuz U can eat the cake doesnt mean U automatically eat the baker as well; trying to say that *is* the case makes for a very faulty argument.........




Tazer

Originally posted by Uriel005
still wrong. It was stated in a comic so your argument is with the writer.

Originally posted by Tazer
Yo.



not saying he couldnt, but just cuz U can eat the cake doesnt mean U automatically eat the baker as well; trying to say that *is* the case makes for a very faulty argument.........




Tazer The baker doesn't reside the cake but the presence does so your analogy makes no sense.

You'd have to prove that the presence was part of creation. Otherwise, it's not going to hold up.

What comic are you talking about?

Originally posted by -Pr-
You'd have to prove that the presence was part of creation. Otherwise, it's not going to hold up.

What comic are you talking about? Paradise lost. I've put the scans up before. It's when asmodel is assaulting heaven and realizes the presence isn't there physically to attack.

Yo.

Originally posted by quanchi112
The baker doesn't reside the cake but the presence does so your analogy makes no sense.

but The Presence isnt *only* in everything, so my point makes sense.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Paradise lost. I've put the scans up before. It's when asmodel is assaulting heaven and realizes the presence isn't there physically to attack.

which isnt true; its just that The Presence wasnt in a *single form* for him/it to atk. in essence he'd just spend the rest of his existence breaking all of the PHYSICAL OBJECTS that make up Creation.




Tazer

Originally posted by Tazer
Yo.



but The Presence isnt *only* in everything, so my point makes sense.



which isnt true; its just that The Presence wasnt in a *single form* for him/it to atk. in essence he'd just spend the rest of his existence breaking all of the PHYSICAL OBJECTS that make up Creation.Your point makes zero sense as he is the cake and everything else you want to act like he's just the baker only. Wrong.

He wasn't as asmodel had nothing singular to attack which would only make it easier for Thanos to absorb.

Either way the point is based on paradise lost thanos easily wins.




Tazer

Classic Beyonder beats them both at the same time...

Yo.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Your point makes zero sense as he is the cake and everything else you want to act like he's just the baker only. Wrong.

He wasn't as asmodel had nothing singular to attack which would only make it easier for Thanos to absorb.

Either way the point is based on paradise lost thanos easily wins.

no, my point makes sense in that since he's also The Baker, all Thanos is eating *is* The Cake, and that doesnt mean it includes The Baker as well.

the statement that Hes "in everything" does not mean thats all that he is, and that panel doesnt allude to that being the case either.




Tazer

Yo.

found the scan we're all talking about btw:

http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa41/quanchi112/JLA-ParadiseLost003-15-1.jpg




Tazer

Originally posted by Tazer
Yo.



no, my point makes sense in that since he's also The Baker, all Thanos is eating *is* The Cake, and that doesnt mean it includes The Baker as well.

the statement that Hes "in everything" does not mean thats all that he is, and that panel doesnt allude to that being the case either.




Tazer You found the scan which clearly states he resides in everything. Thanos absorbs everything. End of story.

Originally posted by quanchi112
You found the scan which clearly states he resides in everything. Thanos absorbs everything. End of story.

It also says that he resides "nowhere".

So Thanos absorbs everything and the Presence still exists to beat him.

Originally posted by AlmightyKfish
It also says that he resides "nowhere".

So Thanos absorbs everything and the Presence still exists to beat him. The air, everything was described and michael was opposed to him destroying everything which asmodel fully intended on doing.

Thanos absorbs everything.

Yo.

which is fine: Thanos absorbs everything, and he still has to deal w/The Presence.

nice to see that we finally agree.




Tazer

Originally posted by Tazer
Yo.

which is fine: Thanos absorbs everything, and he still has to deal w/The Presence.

nice to see that we finally agree.




Tazer Which is the presence. He can't avoid being absorbed and loses. He didn't attempt to stop asmodel.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Which is the presence. He can't avoid being absorbed and loses. He didn't attempt to stop asmodel. If the presence existed before creation then how can creation be the entirety of the presence. Did Presence spontaneously will himself into existance... Which btw goes against the very premise of the character.

Absorbing creation won't do shit to presence.

Originally posted by Uriel005
If the presence existed before creation then how can creation be the entirety of the presence. Did Presence spontaneously will himself into existance... Which btw goes against the very premise of the character.

Absorbing creation won't do shit to presence. What existed before is irrelevant. I have a comic proving my case if you want to prove yours reference an issue which backs up your theory.

Lucifer series. Ellaine Belloc... Case and point Presence left creation and went on to other things IIRC resulting in her taking Michaels power. The universe was falling apart without the Presence because he left. If the presence can leave a universe than it is clearly not a part of him. will dig for the issues but yeah.

Originally posted by Uriel005
Lucifer series. Ellaine Belloc... Case and point Presence left creation and went on to other things IIRC resulting in her taking Michaels power. The universe was falling apart without the Presence because he left. If the presence can leave a universe than it is clearly not a part of him. will dig for the issues but yeah. That's not canon to the dcu. Didio pretty much said as much and even that presence was shaped by external forces stated plain as day on panel.

All you had to do there is sit on his throne and take over as supreme being. Do you want to argue that presence vs. thanos with the heart ? I can sure do that.

Originally posted by quanchi112
That's not canon to the dcu. Didio pretty much said as much and even that presence was shaped by external forces stated plain as day on panel.

All you had to do there is sit on his throne and take over as supreme being. Do you want to argue that presence vs. thanos with the heart ? I can sure do that. You're using the quote he was shaped by forces external him from the Lucifer comic that is noncanon to DCU. but you're saying using THe Presence leaving the universe is noncanon. You can't have it both ways. By the way in the Lucifer comic said that God's name was in every fabric of creation. Which is why when he leaves that creation unravels. That explains why Asmodel said that God's name was in everything. Besides I doubt Asmodel is the end all authority on the nature of God considering he turned against him.

Originally posted by Superherovandal
You're using the quote he was shaped by forces external him from the Lucifer comic that is noncanon to DCU. but you're saying using THe Presence leaving the universe is noncanon. You can't have it both ways. By the way in the Lucifer comic said that God's name was in every fabric of creation. Which is why when he leaves that creation unravels. That explains why Asmodel said that God's name was in everything. Besides I doubt Asmodel is the end all authority on the nature of God considering he turned against him. Asmodel learns this by way of his conversation with the angel. I am arguing against the vertigo presence since he brought it up but at the same time saying all of lucy's series doesn't pertain to the dcu.

You can't cite that series for the dcu presence but if you want to argue for vertigo's presence I can switch gears.

Yo.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Which is the presence. He can't avoid being absorbed and loses. He didn't attempt to stop asmodel.

yes, the Presence is the Presence; we can all read here.

and no, Creation *might* be lost but since the Presence would still be around; that he didnt move to stop Azmodel says nothing as there really wasnt any need to.




Tazer

Originally posted by Tazer
Yo.



yes, the Presence is the Presence; we can all read here.

and no, Creation *might* be lost but since the Presence would still be around; that he didnt move to stop Azmodel says nothing as there really wasnt any need to.




Tazer In a future arc with Cronus he took the presence's power from heaven so Thanos can do just the same and absorb all of creation. Nothing the presence can do.

Originally posted by Slaanesh
Presence is equal to TOAA which means he is > HOTU this pretty much ends the argument here.

if another omniscient being used THOTU, he'd stalemate the presence/overmonitor. thanos, despite slowly growing into omniscience, wasnt really up there.

Yo.

Originally posted by quanchi112
In a future arc with Cronus he took the presence's power from heaven so Thanos can do just the same and absorb all of creation. Nothing the presence can do.

and he died ultimately failed in the attempt due to not being strong enuff to handle that much power as I recall, and I *also* dont remember the Presence fighting him at all, not that He couldnt.........but that He just didnt.

theres nothing in that story which says the Presence was helpless or defenseless; if anything, it simply shows Cronus beating himself.

so, do U have any other instances of the Presence not fighting U'd like to use as proof of "Presence <<< THOTI"??




Tazer

Originally posted by Tazer
Yo.



and he died ultimately failed in the attempt due to not being strong enuff to handle that much power as I recall, and I *also* dont remember the Presence fighting him at all, not that He couldnt.........but that He just didnt.

theres nothing in that story which says the Presence was helpless or defenseless; if anything, it simply shows Cronus beating himself.

so, do U have any other instances of the Presence not fighting U'd like to use as proof of "Presence <<< THOTI"??




Tazer
Lol Quan has a funny memory.

It wasn't the Presence's power, it was the Godwave. And when Cronus /w Godwave did storm the Silver City (not Heaven) and briefly touched the mind of the Lord of the Silver City (possibly the Presence, possibly a lesser but similar being, DC isn't always clear on that) he nearly went mad because he realized it was too much power and too vast for anyone, even a God like him to comprehend.

Originally posted by Tazer
Yo.



and he died ultimately failed in the attempt due to not being strong enuff to handle that much power as I recall, and I *also* dont remember the Presence fighting him at all, not that He couldnt.........but that He just didnt.

theres nothing in that story which says the Presence was helpless or defenseless; if anything, it simply shows Cronus beating himself.

so, do U have any other instances of the Presence not fighting U'd like to use as proof of "Presence <<< THOTI"??




Tazer The presence doesn't seem like he chooses to fight and lets these things occur. Thanos however will indeed absorb all of reality which he has shown the ability to do. Just because you don't like the outcome doesn't make it any more unlikely to happen.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
Lol Quan has a funny memory.

It wasn't the Presence's power, it was the Godwave. And when Cronus /w Godwave did storm the Silver City (not Heaven) and briefly touched the mind of the Lord of the Silver City (possibly the Presence, possibly a lesser but similar being, DC isn't always clear on that) he nearly went mad because he realized it was too much power and too vast for anyone, even a God like him to comprehend. It was stated as the presence' power not the godwave. His sickle was destroyed by WW before he took on this power. I'm right your wrong as usual.

Stew on it.

Yo.

Originally posted by quanchi112
The presence doesn't seem like he chooses to fight and lets these things occur. Thanos however will indeed absorb all of reality which he has shown the ability to do. Just because you don't like the outcome doesn't make it any more unlikely to happen.

at no point did I say Thanos couldnt absorb Creation; wat Ive BEEN saying is that just cuz he does so doesnt mean he absorbs the all of The Presence with it.




Tazer

Originally posted by Tazer
Yo.



at no point did I say Thanos couldnt absorb Creation; wat Ive BEEN saying is that just cuz he does so doesnt mean he absorbs the all of The Presence with it.




Tazer It says right on panel what made up the presence and what combat feats does the presence have since he's in this thread and there's no way Thanos can't get to him.

Yo.


no, its says that hes in everything that makes up Creation, not that Creation makes up all of Him; 2 diff things entirely




Tazer

Originally posted by Tazer
Yo.


no, its says that hes in everything that makes up Creation, not that Creation makes up all of Him; 2 diff things entirely




Tazer ignore him just as hes ignoring the fcat that if the presence was creation then he wouldnt be the creator

Originally posted by Tazer
Yo.


no, its says that hes in everything that makes up Creation, not that Creation makes up all of Him; 2 diff things entirely




Tazer Then what else is he ? He's in this thread to fight so point me to any scans or issues where it explains the essence of what the presence is better than paradise lost.

Yo.

explaining the essence of the Presence doesnt constitute "battle scan" for Him, and as far as I know there arent any..........which makes this whole thread moot really.




Tazer

How is this still open? Seriously?

Presence shitstomps irrefutibly.

Originally posted by Tazer
Yo.

explaining the essence of the Presence doesnt constitute "battle scan" for Him, and as far as I know there arent any..........which makes this whole thread moot really.




Tazer I have two stories where they address the presence and Thanos easily wins as you have no evidence as to suggest why or even how the presence wins.

Yo.

I *never said* the Presence wins, nor was that ever my point.

my only point was to illustrate that yur argument ment of "THOTI-Thanos eats da all Creation; HE AM WINZ!!!" is a faulty judgement based on the evidence provided.




Tazer

Originally posted by Tazer
Yo.

I *never said* the Presence wins, nor was that ever my point.

my only point was to illustrate that yur argument ment of "THOTI-Thanos eats da all Creation; HE AM WINZ!!!" is a faulty judgement based on the evidence provided.




Tazer No, because the angel quickly went to the presence's defense by not allowing asmodel to destroy creation. The scans make my case for me.

Yo.

there was nothing to defend; Azmodel wouldnt have been able to do anything, so no it *doesnt* make yur case for ya.




Tazer

Originally posted by Tazer
Yo.

there was nothing to defend; Azmodel wouldnt have been able to do anything, so no it *doesnt* make yur case for ya.




Tazer If his actions were irrelevant the angel wouldn't have cared and would have stated it wouldn't matter but as the scan shows he resides in everything and the only way asmodel was going to attack him was by attacking all of creation which Thanos can do.

Just because the angel tried to stop asmodel doesn't mean that Presence is only within creation. I honestly doubt the angels believe that Asmodel could do anything to God. However, I'm sure that the angel prolly wanted to protect its father's creation.

Yo.

Originally posted by quanchi112
If his actions were irrelevant the angel wouldn't have cared and would have stated it wouldn't matter but as the scan shows he resides in everything and the only way asmodel was going to attack him was by attacking all of creation which Thanos can do.

as a member of the Eagle Host, its actually w/in Zauriel character to talk things out, especially given all the chaos Azmodel was causing; that Az's actions were ultimately futile was just a matter of happenstance.




Tazer

Originally posted by Tazer
Yo.



as a member of the Eagle Host, its actually w/in Zauriel character to talk things out, especially given all the chaos Azmodel was causing; that Az's actions were ultimately futile was just a matter of happenstance.




Tazer In heaven but attacking creation itself was explained to him by the angel Asmodel didn't know this and when he realized it his wrath was going to be at creation itself.

That ball that the Presence is holding is creation. Even if Thanos absorbs it, the Presence still destroys him. People act as if Thanos was above TOAA when he absorbed the heart, but he wasn't. He was too inexperienced and his will was still inferior to that of a supreme being. He only absorbed what he did because TOAA allowed him to. Iirc, Thanos even admits it.

http://i810.photobucket.com/albums/zz22/truman801/Lucifer_68_p12.jpg

The Presnce is in the little ball that he is holding, but he is also outside and apart from it.

@ Sirius

This is vertigo's presence which didio has stated as a stand alone universe not to be confused with the dcu's presence.

It depends on which presence that we're all referring to. Because DC only has one. If we're referring to the Primal Moniter, then the Primal Moniter stomps, as thanos absorbing his dreams (everything/ "story" wouldn't affect him. He'd just think up more I guess. It's like your subconscious thoughts trying to fight your physical body. They're intangible and able to be manipulated by their source, i.e the Presence/ Primal Moniter.

Yo.

Originally posted by quanchi112
In heaven but attacking creation itself was explained to him by the angel Asmodel didn't know this and when he realized it his wrath was going to be at creation itself.

sure he wanted to tear down Everything, but that doesnt mean his actions (if possible) wouldve gotten the result he (or *U*, in this case) wanted......

once again I repeat: consuming the Cake doesnt mean the Baker is swallowed along w/it.




Tazer

Originally posted by Sirius77
It depends on which presence that we're all referring to. Because DC only has one. If we're referring to the Primal Moniter, then the Primal Moniter stomps, as thanos absorbing his dreams (everything/ "story" wouldn't affect him. He'd just think up more I guess. It's like your subconscious thoughts trying to fight your physical body. They're intangible and able to be manipulated by their source, i.e the Presence/ Primal Moniter. We're referring to the presence and veritgo's presence isn't canon.

Originally posted by Tazer
Yo.



sure he wanted to tear down Everything, but that doesnt mean his actions (if possible) wouldve gotten the result he (or *U*, in this case) wanted......

once again I repeat: consuming the Cake doesnt mean the Baker is swallowed along w/it.




Tazer The presence is in this fight and the scan proves my case. You keep acting like the presence isn't a part of all of creation and a baker doesn't reside in his cake. Think.

Yo.

no, it really doesnt and Ive said nothing of the sort.

perhaps *U* should be the 1 to try thinking........




Tazer

.

Originally posted by Tazer
Yo.

no, it really doesnt and Ive said nothing of the sort.

perhaps *U* should be the 1 to try thinking........




Tazer The scan clearly points out how and in the ww cronus storyline we see cronus take the presence's power which Thanos can also do while in heaven.