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Turles from the third DBZ movie "The Tree of Might".

vs.

Captain Ginyu, of the Ginyu force.


Assume Turles consumed 3 fruits from the tree of might before this battle. No body swapping for Ginyu.

It's really hard to say, as we don't know exactly how much of a boost Turles got from eating the fruit. However, even though the English dub of movie #3 didn't really mention power levels, the original Japanese version did. That said, the following power levels were taken directly from that, and help give us some baselines to work with...

Kid Gohan: 10,000 - Turles treated him like he was less than nothing.
Piccolo: 18,000 - Turles owned him with ease.
Goku (pre-kaioken): 30,000 "and skyrocketing" - Turles was able to match his every move.

...So it's safe to assume that Turles was somewhere around the 30,000 range, at base.

Then he took a -single- bite of the fruit (he didn't even eat the whole thing) and his power instantly jumped to a level where he was casually toying with a 20x kaioken Goku.

Based on that, if Turles were to -completely- eat 3 different fruits from the Shinseiju, he should logically be well above Ginyu's 120,000 PL. Imo.

I agree. it was never stated what his power level actually is, but the fruit do give him an edge here, especially if he eats the whole thing.

Originally posted by Galan007
It's really hard to say, as we don't know exactly how much of a boost Turles got from eating the fruit. However, even though the English dub of movie #3 didn't really mention power levels, the original Japanese version did. That said, the following power levels were taken directly from that, and help give us some baselines to work with...

Kid Gohan: 10,000 - Turles treated him like he was less than nothing.
Piccolo: 18,000 - Turles owned him with ease.
Goku (pre-kaioken): 30,000 "and skyrocketing" - Turles was able to match his every move.

...So it's safe to assume that Turles was somewhere around the 30,000 range, at base.

Then he took a -single- bite of the fruit (he didn't even eat the whole thing) and his power instantly jumped to a level where he was casually toying with a 20x kaioken Goku.

Based on that, if Turles were to -completely- eat 3 different fruits from the Shinseiju, he should logically be well above Ginyu's 120,000 PL. Imo. that actually makes sense.

so with these stips, how do you think turles would do against base form frieza?

Originally posted by john allerdyce
that actually makes sense.

so with these stips, how do you think turles would do against base form frieza? That's even harder to say.

Like I said above, all we know for sure is that pre-kaioken Goku and base Turles seemed roughly equal -- and at that point, Goku (and by proxy, Turles) had a PL of 30,000+. After eating one bite of one fruit, Turles' power was boosted to a point that he could own 20x kaioken Goku as though it were child's play.

So if a single bite of Shinseiju fruit increased his power THAT much, then just imagine what eating 3 separate fruits in their entirety would do. Could it amp his PL beyond the 530,000 base form Frieza possessed? It's certainly possible, but there is really no way to be positive.

Originally posted by Galan007
That's even harder to say.

Like I said above, all we know for sure is that pre-kaioken Goku and base Turles seemed roughly equal -- and at that point, Goku (and by proxy, Turles) had a PL of 30,000+. After eating one bite of one fruit, Turles' power was boosted to a point that he could own 20x kaioken Goku as though it were child's play.

So if a single bite of Shinseiju fruit increased his power THAT much, then just imagine what eating 3 separate fruits in their entirety would do. Could it amp his PL beyond the 530,000 base form Frieza possessed? It's certainly possible, but there is really no way to be positive.

No, there is.


It's very simple math.



If he was matching Goku at 30,000 in his base and was still beating Goku down at 20x Kaio Ken after he took one bite, then you can come up with an absolute low limit.



Goku at 10x (it wasn't 20, it was 10) Kaio Ken makes his power level = 300,000. So we can, with 100% fact, that his power level significantly increased to over 300,000.


From there, you could easily come up with a measure for how strong he could get based on the amount of volume he ate from the fruit: there will be a finite amount of bites he can take from that fruit.


Then, you can take the math one of two ways (and one of those ways would be correct): a ratio increase and a pure linear power increase.

The ratio means that his power would increase on a linear basis by a fixed amount each time he took a bit. The ratio means that his power his multiplied by a certain number every bit.



The former is most likely correct since the power is basically the life energy of the earth so each bite would contain Ki so a fixed amount of Ki would be imparted each step, but I'll do both.



How many bites to eat a fruit of that size based on how much one bite took?

Well, he ate an entire fruit and theb threw it on the ground. It's the size of a medium sized apple and it is eaten the same exact way. So we can estimate around 30 bites.


Assuming linear progression, he jumped from around 30,000 (Actually, Goku was kicking his butt at 30,000 or higher...Turles said that Goku's power was still rising) to 300,000. We can be generous and give Turles a power level of 30,000. So if it takes 30 bites to finish off a medium sized apple, each bite adds 290,000 of power.

So 290,000 * 31 + 30,000 = 9,020,000

So, if we assume he eats 3 fruits, that's 3*30*290,000 + 30,000 = 26,130,000

Keep in mind that these are the absolute bare minimums based on fact. He is actually higher than that because he still was beating down a kaio ken x10.


Let's recalculate based on a ratio...this version will net a MUCH larger result.


He increased from around 30,000 to 300,000. That's a ratio of 10 to 1.

So every bite increases his power by 10x.


(10^90) * 30,000 = 3.e+94 or a 3 with 94 zeros after it.



Is that accurate? No, not even a little. That's just an absurd amount of power.



So could Turles have reached the 120,000,000 required power level required to beat Frieza? If we go by the bare minimum numbers, then it would take him 414 bites. 30 bites per fruit. That's almost 14 fruits needing to be eaten. Since we can round down, it would take 13 fruits to be around Frieza's power level.


Enjoy!

Originally posted by dadudemon
No, there is. It's very simple math.

Goku at 10x (it wasn't 20, it was 10) That's right. In the original Jap version in was 10x. In the English dub it was 20x.

As for the rest, the only part I agree whole-heartedly with is that one bite of fruit took Turles' power from 30,000+ to 300,000+. The rest (mainly referring to the number of bites per fruit you used in your calcs) would vary from person to person... And considering how Saiyans have been shown eating food in the past, Turles may well have consumed the fruit in a couple of bites. Who knows?

Regardless, you can only be absolutely positive about the outcome of a mathematical equation if the values you are using in said equation are completely infallible/unarguable -- and in this case, there's no way to be 100% sure if they are.

I do think it helps us get a rough guesstimate as to where Turles might be (power-wise) after consuming 3 fruits, though.

Originally posted by dadudemon
So could Turles have reached the 120,000,000 required power level required to beat Frieza?He asked about base form Frieza (PL 530,000), not final form Frieza.

Originally posted by Galan007
That's right. In the original Jap version in was 10x. In the English dub it was 20x.

As for the rest, the only part I agree whole-heartedly with is that one bite of fruit took Turles' power from 30,000+ to 300,000+. The rest (mainly referring to the number of bites per fruit you used in your calcs) would vary from person to person... And considering how Saiyans have been shown eating food in the past, Turles may well have consumed the fruit in a couple of bites. Who knows?

It's the volume of the fruit. Bites actually do not matter, but it's the only measure we can use considering Turles took a regular bite and "regular" bites add up to about 30 with a regular apple. (Try it.)

Keep in mind that the linear power increase is the most accurate because the fruit has taken the Ki from the livings things of earth and put it into the fruit: so a linear progression is quite the accurate measure.

Originally posted by Galan007
Regardless, you can only be absolutely positive about the outcome of a mathematical equation if the values you are using in said equation are completely infallible/unarguable -- and in this case, there's no way to be 100% sure if they are.

The low end, yes, they are infallible. We had a scouter readout and a X10 Kaio Ken. It doesn't get any more infallible than the lowest possible measure: anything higher and it becomes baseless.

Originally posted by Galan007
I do think it helps us get a rough guesstimate as to where Turles might be (power-wise) after consuming 3 fruits, though.

YEA!

Originally posted by Galan007
He asked about base form Frieza (PL 530,000), not final form Frieza.

Yeah, but base-form Frieza wouldn't stick in that form, for long. Turles would most assuredly want Frieza to go to his final form, for sure because he's a Saiyan and one of the worst kind.

Originally posted by dadudemon
It's the volume of the fruit. Bites actually do not matter, but it's the only measure we can use considering Turles took a regular bite and "regular" bites add up to about 30 with a regular apple. (Try it.)

Keep in mind that the linear power increase is the most accurate because the fruit has taken the Ki from the livings things of earth and put it into the fruit: so a linear progression is quite the accurate measure.



The low end, yes, they are infallible. We had a scouter readout and a X10 Kaio Ken. It doesn't get any more infallible than the lowest possible measure: anything higher and it becomes baseless. It could only be infallible if you were absolutely positive that it took Turles "x" amount of bites to consume a fruit -- and there is -no- way you could possibly know that. All you can do is go by the average amount of bites it takes a normal human to consume an apple, and take a rough guess from there.

Don't try to sell an opinion as anything more than it is. Like I said, it's likely a good guess, but it's still just a guess.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Yeah, but base-form Frieza wouldn't stick in that form, for long. Turles would most assuredly want Frieza to go to his final form, for sure because he's a Saiyan and one of the worst kind. He asked exclusively above -base form- Frieza. If he wanted to know about final form Frieza, he surely would have asked.

Originally posted by Galan007
It could only be infallible if you were absolutely positive that it took Turles "x" amount of bites to consume a fruit -- and there is -no- way you could possibly know that. All you can do is go by the average amount of bites it takes a normal human to consume an apple, and take a rough guess from there.

Yeah, because 1-3 bites is going to make GIANT difference at the end of things, right?


hahahahahahahahahahaha

Originally posted by Galan007
Don't try to sell an opinion as anything more than it is. Like I said, it's likely a good guess, but it's still just a guess.

There's a difference between guessing and making an estimation with a small margin of error.

Your "reply" consists of you denying simple math realities, again. You don't actually try to counter them, even a little. Instead, you try to dismiss them.

Originally posted by Galan007
He asked exclusively above -base form- Frieza. If he wanted to know about final form Frieza, he surely would have asked.

It doesn't matter: some questions actually require being answered differently than the asker intended in order to answer them properly.

Originally posted by dadudemon
There's a difference between guessing and making an estimation with a small margin of error. I agree. And neither of those is an infallible line of thinking. That's all I'm saying.

You're essentially just taking a guess (which I even agreed was a good one). But you can't give any absolutes in a matter where there are none (referring again to the number of bites needed to consume a fruit). Could be more than you claimed, could be far less. Who knows?