Hiemdall's a black dude?

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jinzin
I've only seen the full 2nd Thor trailer once or twice on the net and the first one during Tron showings. I saw Idris (I think that's his name) all decked out in gold armor but figured he was Loki's henchman or something. Of course after the 2nd trailer and seeing him more clearly he definitely looked more akin to Hiemdall... which as it stands... He is.

So apparently there are white supremacist groups boycotting the movie for this casting choice alone.
I feel that's a bit an over-reaction but I don't worship norse dieties.

Though, I can also understand where they're coming from. While I didn't mind Kingpin being played by Michael Clark Duncan I also DID NOT want too see a Wonder Woman movie where Diana was played by Beyonce.

What do you guys think about this story? This casting choice?
and how do you feel about roles getting tossed to the "wrong race"?

Would you have liked a white War Machine? A Mexican Iron Man? a Black Thor?


Chime in and let me know what you think.

Omega Vision
Its a minor detail. Yeah it annoys me, but it's not going to stop me from enjoying the movie if it turns out to be good.

Heimdall isn't a major character, but as it stands a black Norse God makes about as much sense as a blond hair, blue eyed African deity would. Considering that in the Old Norse world if you called someone "black" you didn't mean Sub-Saharan African or even Moorish, you meant someone with brown hair and brown eyes. That's how small the ethnic diversity was in that time and place.

jinzin
Keep in mind in mythology Hiemdall is established as the fairest skinned/whitest of white god.

Deadline
Originally posted by Omega Vision

Heimdall isn't a major character, but as it stands a black Norse God makes about as much sense as a blond hair, blue eyed African deity would.

If you're talking about the religon itself your wrong. Sure Norse gods where white but thats because Norse people were white, if you look at what gods really are in Norse lore they transcend physical form. Thats like arguing that angels should be white.

However I do get a little pissed off when they make white characters black, I think they should just make more black characters but I'm glad its pissing off the white supremecist.


Originally posted by jinzin
Keep in mind in mythology Hiemdall is established as the fairest skinned/whitest of white god.

He is? I thought that was Balder? Hell if want to get into specifics then Thor should be as powerful as Odin.

edit: Yea apparently thats what Norse lore says.

RE: Blaxican
I can see why some people would displeased by the notion, but it doesn't bother me personally.

BruceSkywalker
unless it somehow changes i don't care that heimdall is being played by a british actor

jinzin
Originally posted by Deadline

He is? I thought that was Balder? Hell if want to get into specifics then Thor should be as powerful as Odin.

edit: Yea apparently thats what Norse lore says.

Balder is also called Balder the White at times, but it's a reference to light/day/brightness, whereas Hiemdall is specifically referenced as the whitest of skin.

Just sayin' it's kind of like they're trying to piss people off given that fact alone hehe.

jinzin
Also don't forget about my curiosities on your opinions regarding this type of casting choice in general.

Originally posted by jinzin

and how do you feel about roles getting tossed to the "wrong race"?

Would you have liked a white War Machine? A Mexican Iron Man? a Black Thor?


Chime in and let me know what you think.

jinzin
Originally posted by Deadline

However I do get a little pissed off when they make white characters black, I think they should just make more black characters but I'm glad its pissing off the white supremecist.
laughing out loud thumbsup

Deadline
Originally posted by jinzin
Balder is also called Balder the White at times, but it's a reference to light/day/brightness, whereas Hiemdall is specifically referenced as the whitest of skin.

Just sayin' it's kind of like they're trying to piss people off given that fact alone hehe.

Yea but from a religous point of view gods are metaphysical beings they can be black. However in comics Asagardians aren't as metaphysical (except maybe Odin).



Originally posted by jinzin
Also don't forget about my curiosities on your opinions regarding this type of casting choice in general.

Well yea my earlier post sumed up my feelings.

jinzin
Originally posted by Deadline
Yea but from a religous point of view gods are metaphysical beings they can be black. However in comics Asagardians aren't as metaphysical (except maybe Odin). Usually that might be the case, but I don't think pigmentation is a bullet point to godly representations for most dieties... Hiemdall's a different story.

Newjak
Meh this is such a minor change I don't think anyone should care. I mean I'm not sure but I don't know if they went into the movie saying they needed a black man its just that he did the best job.

Heimdal is minor character in the background of things that this change is nothing I'm gonna cry over.

I would be a little more disturbed at a Black Thor or White War Machine. Cause they're more central characters from comics that you want to see them as they are. So I want to see Thor as he is in comics I want to see War Machine as he is comics. I don't really care about Heimdal.

Just like they made Jarvis a machine. It didn't bother me that much.

ExodusCloak
Idris Elba is the best actor in the United Kingdom. I am thrilled.

And given the tripe that the Wonder Women TV show is, I'd welcome Beyonce at this point.

Also Emma Frost should be black. In fact that's the way they should have gone in the Ultimate Universe.

Also, didn't they cast a chinese guy as one of the Warriors Three? Why is Heimdall getting all the flak?

BTW Marvel Asgardians and Norse mythology are very, very different. For one Thor is blonde. Marvel are obviously anti-ginger.

Existere
Originally posted by ExodusCloak
Also Emma Frost should be black. In fact that's the way they should have gone in the Ultimate Universe.
This.

I understand why it bothers people. Racial background plays heavily into character identity and all that. That being said, change is good, and while I personally don't feel attached to Heimdall's character (and therefore can't speak from the perspective of those who do), he obviously isn't a big part of the big picture, so I'm for it.

roughrider
First of all, it's Heimdall, not Hiemdall. If you're going to complain about a character's specifics, identify him right.

Secondly, have you been asleep for the past year and a half? This debate has gone on since Idris Elba was cast in late fall of 2009. I have followed the debate on multiple boards, and there's virtually nothing left to be said at this point. The movie opens in less than four weeks.

Thirdly, Asgardians aren't from Earth or Scandinavia; just the select ones they have brought to Asgard over millenia are. So they don't have to racially look all caucasian.

...So did they have to cast him? Maybe not. This controversy could have been avoided if they hadn't. But precedent had alreay been set in other ways. Hogun the Grim resembles a mongol in many ways, so a Japanese actor has been cast for his part. And Heimdall was one God who didn't visit Earth(Midgard) so he's never been seen by mortals. And Kenneth Branagh has a history of ignoring race in casting supporting roles - he cast Denzel Washington & Keanu Reeves as brothers in Much Ado About Nothing. Because he's more concerned about getting a great actor to do a good job than anything else.

ExodusCloak
Originally posted by Existere
This.

I understand why it bothers people. Racial background plays heavily into character identity and all that. That being said, change is good, and while I personally don't feel attached to Heimdall's character (and therefore can't speak from the perspective of those who do), he obviously isn't a big part of the big picture, so I'm for it.

I think he looks aesthetically amazing in the movie, especially the contact lenses. I hope something happens to 616 Heimdall that makes him change his appearance like tranny Loki.

Omega Vision
Originally posted by Deadline
If you're talking about the religon itself your wrong. Sure Norse gods where white but thats because Norse people were white, if you look at what gods really are in Norse lore they transcend physical form. Thats like arguing that angels should be white.

No they didn't. Norse Gods were very much treated as physical beings to the point they had to consume Golden Apples to maintain their longevity.

At the very least there is an expectation that a Norse God should be white. They're reflections of the people who dreamed them up.

srankmissingnin
I figure the stance they are taking is that Asgardians are a completely different species as varied and diverse as Humanity... which I don't really have a problem with, but I think it will be confusing if they ever introduce any of the other Pantheons.

Don Corleone
Originally posted by jinzin
I've only seen the full 2nd Thor trailer once or twice on the net and the first one during Tron showings. I saw Idris (I think that's his name) all decked out in gold armor but figured he was Loki's henchman or something. Of course after the 2nd trailer and seeing him more clearly he definitely looked more akin to Hiemdall... which as it stands... He is.

So apparently there are white supremacist groups boycotting the movie for this casting choice alone.
I feel that's a bit an over-reaction but I don't worship norse dieties.

Though, I can also understand where they're coming from. While I didn't mind Kingpin being played by Michael Clark Duncan I also DID NOT want too see a Wonder Woman movie where Diana was played by Beyonce.

What do you guys think about this story? This casting choice?
and how do you feel about roles getting tossed to the "wrong race"?

Would you have liked a white War Machine? A Mexican Iron Man? a Black Thor?


Chime in and let me know what you think.

It is annoying when they cant even get a character right. IMO , characters should come as close as possible to what they are like in comics. Unless they're going with a black Hiemdall for comics.

Mr. Rhythmic
Meh, it's not a big deal. Idris Elba's a fantastic actor.

Omega Vision
Originally posted by srankmissingnin
I figure the stance they are taking is that Asgardians are a completely different species as varied and diverse as Humanity... which I don't really have a problem with, but I think it will be confusing if they ever introduce any of the other Pantheons.
I'd be able to accept that. After all I had no problem with the Norse Gods being 3ft tall gray aliens in Stargate SG-1 stick out tongue

jinzin
Originally posted by roughrider
First of all, it's Heimdall, not Hiemdall. If you're going to complain about a character's specifics, identify him right.

Secondly, have you been asleep for the past year and a half? This debate has gone on since Idris Elba was cast in late fall of 2009. I have followed the debate on multiple boards, and there's virtually nothing left to be said at this point. The movie opens in less than four weeks.

Thirdly, Asgardians aren't from Earth or Scandinavia; just the select ones they have brought to Asgard over millenia are. So they don't have to racially look all caucasian.


Jesus Christ...

Y'know if you're going to lecture someone about the misspelling of a Nordic name, then the very LEAST you could do is keep your reading comprehension up to task concerning the thread you're replying in you damned helmet-child.

First off, perhaps you can tell me what part of my posts thus far have been part of a complaint?
Oh that's right I HAVEN'T complained about anything, I've just brought attention to fact that OTHERS did/are.

Second--wai-what?! Just because I didn't know about the controversy this casting has caused you've somehow concluded I've been asleep for the last year? Oh yes, because anyone who isn't acutely aware of any and all movie news concerning the God of Thunder must be some bumbling fool... roll eyes (sarcastic) Good lord, I could understand if I was dumbfounded about last month's tsunami in Japan, but this? Really... ?

As shocking as it may be to you, there are those of us on the forum who are not raging Thor fanboys like some others... apparently are. And as such, there are those of us who futhermore are not movie-buffs or well updated on movie news, yes, in SPITE of being part of a community forum that's ironically enough on a movie site.
The truth is that outside of a few trailers, toys, and one or two movie posters, I haven't been keenly up to date on Thor movie news at all... for some reason I guess politics, bills, and environmental issues took precedence in my Thor-less state of bafoonery roll eyes (sarcastic) ... Hell, I'm BARELY familiar with up to date Wolverine movie news if that tells you anything about how much research I do on all things concerning Marvel Studios. no expression
The only reason that I even found out about this proposed boycott of the film was because I was trying to find good reference pics of current Heimdall (There, spelled it right for you that time so you don't have to wet the Thor bed sheets out of frustration) so I could sculpt him for a project.

And again... Most fictional characters are not referenced specifically in skin tone... Heimdall (Spelled it right again! Are you salivating yet?) is.

roughrider
I also know there is a Thor movie thread in here to talk about about things related to the film. The fact you choose to open a topic like this up in a seperate thread, just to talk about the race of the actor playing Heimdall...
...Well, there's something to that, isn't there?

jinzin
Originally posted by roughrider
I also know there is a Thor movie thread in here to talk about about things related to the film. The fact you choose to open a topic like this up in a seperate thread, just to talk about the race of the actor playing Heimdall...
...Well, there's something to that, isn't there?
There's a Thor movie general discussion thread yes... This isn't a general discussion.

Again it comes down to reading the full scope of what's been written here.
It's not JUST A THREAD ABOUT HEIMDALL EITHER. no expression
And, what do you mean "there's something to that"? What the f**k? It's not as if my invitation to the opinions of other members about this issue is some sort of underhanded attempt to enforce my own opinions or "complaints" as you put it... Opinions which I would think were made pretty clear when I agreed with Deadline's post.... something I do once in a blue moon.

Reading. Comprehension. Try it out...

I hope you don't engage in such reckless conclusion jumping in ALL aspects of your life.

ExodusCloak
Originally posted by Don Corleone
It is annoying when they cant even get a character right. IMO , characters should come as close as possible to what they are like in comics. Unless they're going with a black Hiemdall for comics.

Ultimate Universe Heimdall hasn't been created yet. The movies have taken more cues from the Ultimate Universe then 616.

-Pr-
Originally posted by ExodusCloak
Idris Elba is the best actor in the United Kingdom. I am thrilled.

And given the tripe that the Wonder Women TV show is, I'd welcome Beyonce at this point.

Also Emma Frost should be black. In fact that's the way they should have gone in the Ultimate Universe.

Also, didn't they cast a chinese guy as one of the Warriors Three? Why is Heimdall getting all the flak?

BTW Marvel Asgardians and Norse mythology are very, very different. For one Thor is blonde. Marvel are obviously anti-ginger.

You really think Emma should be black? Why, out of curiosity? Unless that's sarcasm.

ExodusCloak
Originally posted by -Pr-
You really think Emma should be black? Why, out of curiosity? Unless that's sarcasm.

I like 616 Emma, but I also think she could work as a black person as well. Especially after the Astrid Bloom thing. I think that just adds to that bit in Classic X-Men where she says she prefers it when people underestimate her.

Also even though she's too old, Vannessa Williams would have been able to pull off a better Emma Frost then January Jones. And I think January Jones looks like a great Emma Frost...but I'm pretty sure her acting and accent is going to ruin it.

If they went that way in the Ultimate Universe I wouldn't have minded. There's also the whole White Queen codename to play off on.

And at the end of the day, it's I think Emma's personality that makes her. Most comic book women are drawn the same but what separates her from the rest IMO is her personality. Without it he'd be another blonde.

-Pr-
Originally posted by ExodusCloak
I like 616 Emma, but I also think she could work as a black person as well. Especially after the Astrid Bloom thing. I think that just adds to that bit in Classic X-Men where she says she prefers it when people underestimate her.

Also even though she's too old, Vannessa Williams would have been able to pull off a better Emma Frost then January Jones. And I think January Jones looks like a great Emma Frost...but I'm pretty sure her acting and accent is going to ruin it.

If they went that way in the Ultimate Universe I wouldn't have minded. There's also the whole White Queen codename to play off on.

And at the end of the day, it's I think Emma's personality that makes her. Most comic book women are drawn the same but what separates her from the rest IMO is her personality. Without it he'd be another blonde.

Those reasons are as good as any, I suppose, and I agree to a point.

Far as Heimdall goes, I'm just not sure he matters enough as a character for it to be an issue, in terms of popularity and focus.

ExodusCloak
Originally posted by -Pr-
Those reasons are as good as any, I suppose, and I agree to a point.

Far as Heimdall goes, I'm just not sure he matters enough as a character for it to be an issue, in terms of popularity and focus.

Lol, it's probably Greg Lands fault. All his women look the same to me.

He was so far off my radar that I didn't care. Maybe this controversy might boost other writers using him. I'd rather him then Volstagg. Volstagg pisses me off.

-Pr-
Originally posted by ExodusCloak
He was so far off my radar that I didn't care. Maybe this controversy might boost other writers using him. I'd rather him then Volstagg. Volstagg pisses me off.

laughing out loud why?

ExodusCloak
Originally posted by -Pr-
laughing out loud why?

I don't know, he's fat and everyone likes him.

He needs a complex like Gertrude Yorkes.

Deadline
Originally posted by jinzin
Usually that might be the case, but I don't think pigmentation is a bullet point to godly representations for most dieties... Hiemdall's a different story.

No Hemidall isn't any different just because hes described that way doesn't mean he has to be restricted to that form, that applies to all gods. See my post below.



Originally posted by Omega Vision
No they didn't. Norse Gods were very much treated as physical beings to the point they had to consume Golden Apples to maintain their longevity.

This is a really silly argument. Just because they were shown to have physical characteristics doesn't mean that they didn't transcend physical form. Norse lore has numerous examples of gods shape shifting and having magical powers, not only that the Norse people believed in reincarnation. If reincarnation isn't an example of transendence I don't know what is. Hell we even have an example of a jotun reincarnating as a human, or do you want to get into a neurotic debate about the meaning of transedence? Ok fine they didn't transcend their physical forms but theres nothing in Norse Lore that indicates that they should be restricted to being white. It's like trying to argue that Loki should never be represented as a Hyena because hes never specifically turned into one.....I hope you see were I'm going with that.

Not to mention the example you gave is absurd. It's pretty obvious that the gods were supernatural magical beings and that the apples were supernatural. So you're arguing that supernatural beings eating supernatural apples can't be black and can't transcend their physical form when the very defintion of magic and supernatural is transcendence? Right. What the f**k?

Originally posted by Omega Vision
At the very least there is an expectation that a Norse God should be white. They're reflections of the people who dreamed them up.

Stating the obvious, not to mention that gods in all cultures are actually metaphors and symbolic. Let me give you an example, Thor maybe described as being a tall strong man with red hair but he's also a god that means hes supposed to be a representation of a concept and his physical form is just a way of describing that.

If Thor can't be black then you might as well argue that Thor shouldn't have anything to do with nuclear power. Why not? Thor is the god of power. He lives in Thrudrheim (which means power home) and has a daughter called power. Well shit there were no nuclear power stations in Viking times therefore it makes no sense for a modern heathen to associate Thor with any other power source apart from fire and lightning. Hell considering that his grandmother has dark skin I could even argue that a modern interpretation could be of a black Thor. Hell I'm pretty sure I read somewhere that sometimes The Vikings associated the colour black with power.

Lets not stop there lets not associate Odin with computing. Hey no computers during the Viking Age so clearly we shouldn't do that, hell Odin is the god of wisdom and knowledge. Oh Odin is the god of poetry as well I'm not going to associate him with rapping...and I won't even dear build a shrine to Odin and have him wearing a suit. Obvoulsy no god ever wore suits in Norse lore so therefore it completely contradicts Norse Lore. Getting the point?

Obvoulsy the Norse gods were white because the Viking were white but the Norse gods being black does not contradict Norse Lore. Considering you have at least one example of a person reincarnating as a different race, reincarnation was not restricted to humans. The Finns who were a different ethic group to the Viking also influenced Norse Lore. Not to mention that the Vikings weren't xenophobic.

Were not talking about comics were talking about a religon that people practice today and even some black people (very rare). I'm merely suggesting that maybe due to the nature of the subject that you should think first before making silly, ignorant arguments even then it wouldn't be bad if you weren't so arrogant. I don't mind people having an opinion but I think you should leave obnxious behavior for the comic vs forum.

-Pr-
Originally posted by ExodusCloak
I don't know, he's fat and everyone likes him.

He needs a complex like Gertrude Yorkes.

What kind of complex? I don't think hers would necessarily suit him stick out tongue

roughrider
Originally posted by jinzin
There's a Thor movie general discussion thread yes... This isn't a general discussion.

Again it comes down to reading the full scope of what's been written here.
It's not JUST A THREAD ABOUT HEIMDALL EITHER. no expression
And, what do you mean "there's something to that"? What the f**k? It's not as if my invitation to the opinions of other members about this issue is some sort of underhanded attempt to enforce my own opinions or "complaints" as you put it... Opinions which I would think were made pretty clear when I agreed with Deadline's post.... something I do once in a blue moon.

Reading. Comprehension. Try it out...

I hope you don't engage in such reckless conclusion jumping in ALL aspects of your life.

This is the thread you're started. To accuse others of reckless conclusion jumping considering the subject here... roll eyes (sarcastic)

Deadline
Originally posted by roughrider
This is the thread you're started. To accuse others of reckless conclusion jumping considering the subject here... roll eyes (sarcastic)

Sorry man I think he's right, you're overeacting. erm

Doctor-Alvis
Originally posted by Deadline
If Thor can't be black then you might as well argue that Thor shouldn't have anything to do with nuclear power. Why not? Thor is the god of power. He lives in Thrudrheim (which means power home) and has a daughter called power. Well shit there were no nuclear power stations in Viking times therefore it makes no sense for a modern heathen to associate Thor with any other power source apart from fire and lightning. Hell considering that his grandmother has dark skin I could even argue that a modern interpretation could be of a black Thor. Hell I'm pretty sure I read somewhere that sometimes The Vikings associated the colour black with power.

Lets not stop there lets not associate Odin with computing. Hey no computers during the Viking Age so clearly we shouldn't do that, hell Odin is the god of wisdom and knowledge. Oh Odin is the god of poetry as well I'm not going to associate him with rapping...and I won't even dear build a shrine to Odin and have him wearing a suit. Obvoulsy no god ever wore suits in Norse lore so therefore it completely contradicts Norse Lore. Getting the point?

I think the only way you could really associate those characters with those things is if you didn't have a good grasp on how nuclear power works, what computing means, or the difference between lyric and song.

Deadline
Originally posted by Doctor-Alvis
I think the only way you could really associate those characters with those things is if you didn't have a good grasp on how nuclear power works, what computing means, or the difference between lyric and song.

Very funny.

Doctor-Alvis
It was only like 30% joke. I could see the rapping one, although I would face palm hard at that explanation.

But computing and computers have nothing to do with knowledge or wisdom.

And nuclear power... I don't know. The electricity created from nuclear power plants is made by water turbines. It would be kind of like if you associated a deity of love and sexuality with a sheep farm.

roughrider
Originally posted by Deadline
Sorry man I think he's right, you're overeacting. erm

You go over to Thor at IMDB, there's been over a dozen different threads dedicated to this casting decision the past year and a half. To have yet another one here right when the movie is on the verge of release - despite the threads he could have posted in if he wanted to discuss this - it's irritating that someone continues to make this an issue at this late stage.

While jinzin may not be trying to be a flamer like so many of those idiots over at IMDB, I'm at the stage where I've simply had enough of this subject (Idris Elba) and hearing things like 'Why can't they be more faithful about this, that blah blah whine whine....' even though this is Marvel Studios and it's their money & approval behind it all. It's done; finished.

The movie opens in a few weeks; we will finally see how well it all works then.

Rage.Of.Olympus
Not really bothered by it. I was annoyed originally, particularly because Sif and Heimdall are siblings, but it's nothing that will ruin the movie for me or anything.

I however would be annoyed if they cast Idris over a white dude to add some diversity. Then I'd be ticked off to an extent. Especially since Heimdall plays a rather large role in the movie.

basilisk
Originally posted by Deadline
This is a really silly argument. Just because they were shown to have physical characteristics doesn't mean that they didn't transcend physical form.

Stating the obvious, not to mention that gods in all cultures are actually metaphors and symbolic. Let me give you an example, Thor maybe described as being a tall strong man with red hair but he's also a god that means hes supposed to be a representation of a concept and his physical form is just a way of describing that.

If Thor can't be black then you might as well argue that Thor shouldn't have anything to do with nuclear power. Why not? Thor is the god of power. He lives in Thrudrheim (which means power home) and has a daughter called power. Well shit there were no nuclear power stations in Viking times therefore it makes no sense for a modern heathen to associate Thor with any other power source apart from fire and lightning. Hell considering that his grandmother has dark skin I could even argue that a modern interpretation could be of a black Thor. Hell I'm pretty sure I read somewhere that sometimes The Vikings associated the colour black with power.

Lets not stop there lets not associate Odin with computing. Hey no computers during the Viking Age so clearly we shouldn't do that, hell Odin is the god of wisdom and knowledge. Oh Odin is the god of poetry as well I'm not going to associate him with rapping...and I won't even dear build a shrine to Odin and have him wearing a suit. Obvoulsy no god ever wore suits in Norse lore so therefore it completely contradicts Norse Lore. Getting the point? But really all those arguments are just as silly as any of the previous ones. You're going way out with this stuff - a lot of these things are just cultural or scientific advances that gods could easily pick up if they wanted to keep up to date and had an interest in earthly affairs. Changing a white person to a black person is a very different thing.

Obvoulsy the Norse gods were white because the Viking were white but the Norse gods being black does not contradict Norse Lore. It directly contradicts it given that he was explicitly described as a fair-skinned white in Norse lore, whiter than the rest.

I just find some of this stuff slightly annoying just because of the PC factor involved (that's Political Correctness not Pre-Crisis). It might have something to do with Brannagh as well. These days in the UK they seem to almost live in cringing fear of offending anyone by not being totally inclusive in everything, even where it makes little sense e.g. the multicultural cast of Merlin, the recent controversy over suspension of a tv producer for not including black cast members in a white area village etc. I don't think I have ever seen a country even close to the UK in how much political correctness overrules factual correctness and how much it is drilled into people on a daily basis almost like the thought police.

Still Elba is an OK actor and it's probably not a big deal given Heimdall is a small part anyway. I'd rather see characters portrayed accurately in this respect (whether it's Heimdall, Fury, or War Machine). I wouldn't want a white actor playing Blade or Rhodey, and as much as I like Samuel L. Jackson in just about anything I don't like black Nick Fury at all. But I guess sometimes this kind of casting can work, like with Kingpin in Daredevil.

It's certainly not going to stop me watching or enjoying the film if it's any good.

GRIMNIR
I think it is a ridiculous casting choice.
The people who created the Norse Mythology were white.
It was long before the modern age of multiculturalism and global world we live in now.
It doesn't matter that he is a supporting character only.
Why not make Odin black and make Thor a woman too while they at it.
They could easily have made the main human characters black or chinese or hispanic.
Asgard should be white stick out tongue
It doesn't bother me enough to not watch it, but I not gonna pretend I not pissed off.

Kazenji
Originally posted by basilisk
, and as much as I like Samuel L. Jackson in just about anything I don't like black Nick Fury at all. .


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultimate_Nick_Fury

ExodusCloak
Originally posted by basilisk


It directly contradicts it given that he was explicitly described as a fair-skinned white in Norse lore, whiter than the rest.

How is this relevant? Marvel don't give a crap about Norse Lore. Thor is a blonde in the MU.

-"The Serpent, the serpent is coming!!"
-"The world tree."
-"Beta Ray Bill".

This is Marvel Thor. They're two different beings.


Ultimate Heimdall hasn't been created yet. Just wait and see when he is. This is pretty much an open and shut case.

basilisk
Originally posted by ExodusCloak
How is this relevant? Marvel don't give a crap about Norse Lore. Thor is a blonde in the MU. It was just a general comment on the accuracy of these statements:
theres nothing in Norse Lore that indicates that they should be restricted to being white...
...Obvoulsy the Norse gods were white because the Viking were white but the Norse gods being black does not contradict Norse Lore.

roughrider
Originally posted by GRIMNIR
I think it is a ridiculous casting choice.
The people who created the Norse Mythology were white.
It was long before the modern age of multiculturalism and global world we live in now.
It doesn't matter that he is a supporting character only.
Why not make Odin black and make Thor a woman too while they at it.
They could easily have made the main human characters black or chinese or hispanic.
Asgard should be white stick out tongue
It doesn't bother me enough to not watch it, but I not gonna pretend I not pissed off.

Guess what - there is a greater chance that Jesus Christ was Black or Middle Eastern looking then he was Caucasian. But that didn't stop nearly two thousand years of Catholic Church propaganda paintings showing him as a blue eyed, fair skinned man with light brown hair. So MAYBE the writers & artists of Norse mythology may have had their own slants of how the Gods appeared to mortals. wink I mean, a white-looking God like Loki had offspring that were monsters, like the giant wolf Fenris and the world serpent of Midgard, if you believe the myths. Why didn't he just have some pasty white children - because he was a being of magic is a big reason.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D0FwpRfmrsU

Doctor-Alvis
I'm not even sure how you can have a slant on how Norse gods looked.

SpaceMonkey
I think this is a case of making the movie work, that's all. I believe that instead of making it like the Asgardians are a supreme otherworldly myhtical race, which is fantastical to DC Comics proportions, they want to have as Earth-based as possible. Hence the "ancestors called it magic, you call it science" explanation. I think what we'll be given here is the explanation that we are ALL descendants of the Asgardians, and they watch over us now. That's why there's a black guy, as Asian guy, and heck, there may be a brown guy up there. They want all the colors and races of the world represented to show us where WE came from. That is the only way to tie Thor's fantasy comics reality to the Iron Man/Hulk military/science reality. Captain America will have no problem fitting in with that, Thor was the only one that would have that problem. I think the way they're doing it is great.

Then again, i could be way off, and maybe they wanted to cast a black guy as Heimdall for no apparent reason. In that case, it's still no big deal.

P.E.A.C.E.

Deadline
Originally posted by basilisk
But really all those arguments are just as silly as any of the previous ones. You're going way out with this stuff - a lot of these things are just cultural or scientific advances that gods could easily pick up if they wanted to keep up to date and had an interest in earthly affairs. Changing a white person to a black person is a very different thing.

It directly contradicts it given that he was explicitly described as a fair-skinned white in Norse lore, whiter than the rest.



Your completely missing the point and selectively analysing certain statements without seeing the context.

basilisk
Originally posted by Deadline
Your completely missing the point and selectively analysing certain statements without seeing the context. I just don't think that comparing cultural/scientific artifacts which can be changed, adopted, and adapted, to portraying someone who is white as black makes any sense. I think it's pretty black and white.

In any case obviously people have different opinions and there is no right or wrong with that. But it would be interesting to see what people thought if a Black Panther movie was made as follows:
Black Panther: Jet Li
Storm: Aishwarya Rai
Leader of the Wakandan Royal Guard/Security: Jason Statham
Wakandan Chief Scientist: Jeff Goldblum
Rest of the Wakandans - black cast

Then imagine having the director make some statements that it wasn't important to have actors of African descent playing Panther & Storm etc as long as the actors were interesting and right for the characters. The 'Black' part of the Panther's title simply refers to the totem and costume, and there is no real contradiction involved. He could further add that as asians, whites, & indians had been present in Africa for many centuries, and in some cases more than a thousand years, it was not even unrealistic to have this multicultural Wakanda. And after all Wakanda & BP are just part of a modern mythology that can be reinterpreted, just like Norse myth in Thor so people can't complain.

I really wonder if people would defend this viewpoint in the same way.

Edit: actually the more I think about it the above cast might work. Except the Jeff Goldblum part.

Deadline
Originally posted by basilisk
I just don't think that comparing cultural/scientific artifacts which can be changed, adopted, and adapted, to portraying someone who is white as black makes any sense. I think it's pretty black and white.

Yea I know because gods can't change appearance. eek! Anyway I'm quite sure you're messing with me.

roughrider

Deadline
^ I don't know I pretty much explained why the gods being black doesn't contradict Norse lore, people are either trolling or racist.

Doctor-Alvis

Kazenji

The Pict
I think it's just to diversify the cast so they aren't all one race or colour. They did it in the 1989 movie Batman having Billy Dee Williams play Harvey Dent, a white character in every other media. Also in the Spawn film the role of Terry is played by a white guy whereas in the comics he's black.

I think as it isn't a change to a major character and it doesn't really take anything away from the main story then it isn't such a big deal.

Caps Conscience
Norse Gods need affirmative action, real talk. They are just catching up with the civil rights movement and I'm happy about it.

Scarlet315
After seeing how Idris looks playing Hemidall now, along with knowing how a great actor he is, I would be more upset at this point if they did change him to be a white actor. I think it's so cool that they are changing some characters to be brothas...goes to show that it's a sign of the times, reflecting our world in how we've changed as a people in a sense. I mean up until a few years ago only time i got to see a black president was in sci-fi movies. I am so glad to be alive to see one finally get in office. And I mean correct me if i'm wrong but the frost giants are supposed to be well giants, not some guys with an acromegaly problem.

Bentley
I think that Jet Li replacing T'challa would play a little against the Black Panther mythos, because him being the first black super heroe in a black continent is kind of part of the mythos.

Kazenji
Some characters should stay a certain way.

basilisk
Originally posted by Bentley
I think that Jet Li replacing T'challa would play a little against the Black Panther mythos, because him being the first black super heroe in a black continent is kind of part of the mythos. But as someone pointed out earlier, Heimdall being fair of skin was also part of the mythos as an identifying trait for him - why is one mythos any more or less important than the other?

basilisk
. double post

Deadline
edit nevermind.

Bentley
Originally posted by basilisk
But as someone pointed out earlier, Heimdall being fair of skin was also part of the mythos as an identifying trait for him - why is one mythos any more or less important than the other?


I think it's an easy concept to grasp. Would Superman be a different character if he wasn't from space and he was a human instead? Yeah, it's a part of the mythos that defines the character. Thor is the god of thunder and war, if he suddenly became the god of books, then I would be altering the mythos in such fashion it's no longer the same. In T'challa's case, his mythos revolves around his origins, and thus, ignoring it would change its nature.

Deadline
Originally posted by Deadline
No Hemidall isn't any different just because hes described that way doesn't mean he has to be restricted to that form, that applies to all gods. See my post below.





This is a really silly argument. Just because they were shown to have physical characteristics doesn't mean that they didn't transcend physical form. Norse lore has numerous examples of gods shape shifting and having magical powers, not only that the Norse people believed in reincarnation. If reincarnation isn't an example of transendence I don't know what is. Hell we even have an example of a jotun reincarnating as a human, or do you want to get into a neurotic debate about the meaning of transedence? Ok fine they didn't transcend their physical forms but theres nothing in Norse Lore that indicates that they should be restricted to being white. It's like trying to argue that Loki should never be represented as a Hyena because hes never specifically turned into one.....I hope you see were I'm going with that.

Not to mention the example you gave is absurd. It's pretty obvious that the gods were supernatural magical beings and that the apples were supernatural. So you're arguing that supernatural beings eating supernatural apples can't be black and can't transcend their physical form when the very defintion of magic and supernatural is transcendence? Right. What the f**k?



Stating the obvious, not to mention that gods in all cultures are actually metaphors and symbolic. Let me give you an example, Thor maybe described as being a tall strong man with red hair but he's also a god that means hes supposed to be a representation of a concept and his physical form is just a way of describing that.

If Thor can't be black then you might as well argue that Thor shouldn't have anything to do with nuclear power. Why not? Thor is the god of power. He lives in Thrudrheim (which means power home) and has a daughter called power. Well shit there were no nuclear power stations in Viking times therefore it makes no sense for a modern heathen to associate Thor with any other power source apart from fire and lightning. Hell considering that his grandmother has dark skin I could even argue that a modern interpretation could be of a black Thor. Hell I'm pretty sure I read somewhere that sometimes The Vikings associated the colour black with power.

Lets not stop there lets not associate Odin with computing. Hey no computers during the Viking Age so clearly we shouldn't do that, hell Odin is the god of wisdom and knowledge. Oh Odin is the god of poetry as well I'm not going to associate him with rapping...and I won't even dear build a shrine to Odin and have him wearing a suit. Obvoulsy no god ever wore suits in Norse lore so therefore it completely contradicts Norse Lore. Getting the point?

Obvoulsy the Norse gods were white because the Viking were white but the Norse gods being black does not contradict Norse Lore. Considering you have at least one example of a person reincarnating as a different race, reincarnation was not restricted to humans. The Finns who were a different ethic group to the Viking also influenced Norse Lore. Not to mention that the Vikings weren't xenophobic.

Were not talking about comics were talking about a religon that people practice today and even some black people (very rare). I'm merely suggesting that maybe due to the nature of the subject that you should think first before making silly, ignorant arguments even then it wouldn't be bad if you weren't so arrogant. I don't mind people having an opinion but I think you should leave obnxious behavior for the comic vs forum.

basilisk
Originally posted by Bentley
I think it's an easy concept to grasp. Would Superman be a different character if he wasn't from space and he was a human instead? Yeah, it's a part of the mythos that defines the character. Thor is the god of thunder and war, if he suddenly became the god of books, then I would be altering the mythos in such fashion it's no longer the same. In T'challa's case, his mythos revolves around his origins, and thus, ignoring it would change its nature. Who said anything about changing or ignoring his origins? All I suggested was that he could be played by Jet Li. They didn't change Heimdall's origins as a god of Asgard just because he was the only black guy in white Asgard - they just used a black actor for the part.

Jet Li playing Black Panther wouldn't change that he was king of Wakanda, a great leader and warrior of his people, current holder of the mantle and symbol of the Black Panther, user of the heart-shaped herbs etc. He would just be played by someone of Asian descent, that's all. It's not like their aren't people of Asian descent in Africa and Li could do great fight sequences - so why would it be any different than Heimdall?

Black bolt z
Originally posted by jinzin
While I didn't mind Kingpin being played by Michael Clark Duncan I also DID NOT want too see a Wonder Woman movie where Diana was played by Beyonce.
This. Sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't.

For example I see an african american man playing bruce banner not working. I don't see an asian man playing Odin working.

But as for this thread a black hemidall wouldn't bother me in the slightest. Long as they stay true to the character.

Bentley
Originally posted by basilisk
Who said anything about changing or ignoring his origins? All I suggested was that he could be played by Jet Li. They didn't change Heimdall's origins as a god of Asgard just because he was the only black guy in white Asgard - they just used a black actor for the part.

Jet Li playing Black Panther wouldn't change that he was king of Wakanda, a great leader and warrior of his people, current holder of the mantle and symbol of the Black Panther, user of the heart-shaped herbs etc. He would just be played by someone of Asian descent, that's all. It's not like their aren't people of Asian descent in Africa and Li could do great fight sequences - so why would it be any different than Heimdall?


One of the reasons why Wakanda "works" it's because it's about the most advanced nation in the world in a continent that it's otherwise sunk under poverty and war. But ever ignoring that, i Jet Li was to play T'challa, the whole country would need to be made from "asian descents", or more like, Wakanda would've to be shifted to Asia for it to work. Wakanda is an isolated nation, to think of a king who's not from the same ethnicity of his people is a very big change of concept.

A huge part of the Black Panther mythos is the Wakandan nation imo.

quanchi112
It's stupid to me personally. I don't like then they mess with their appearance from the comics. I don't ever want to see a white blade either. That being said I'm just glad he's a minor character because if it was Thor I wouldn't even see it.

Bentley
Originally posted by quanchi112
It's stupid to me personally. I don't like then they mess with their appearance from the comics. I don't ever want to see a white blade either. That being said I'm just glad he's a minor character because if it was Thor I wouldn't even see it.


But what if Thanos was green? biscuits

basilisk
Originally posted by Bentley
One of the reasons why Wakanda "works" it's because it's about the most advanced nation in the world in a continent that it's otherwise sunk under poverty and war. But ever ignoring that, i Jet Li was to play T'challa, the whole country would need to be made from "asian descents", or more like, Wakanda would've to be shifted to Asia for it to work. Wakanda is an isolated nation, to think of a king who's not from the same ethnicity of his people is a very big change of concept.

A huge part of the Black Panther mythos is the Wakandan nation imo. I don't think the whole of Wakanda would have to be changed, no more than they felt they had to explain why one black Asgardian existed amongst the white Asgardians, or why Queen Guinevere in Merlin is a black woman, they don't really need to explain these things. Maybe there are just people of Asian descent in Wakanda just like there are many in real life Africa, and the Wakandans are more tolerant towards other races than in the comics. Or maybe he and his Indian wife Storm happened to save Wakanda during some crisis where the previous Black Panther was killed before there was an heir, and the council recognized Jet Li as a great warrior and made him the new Panther and King. Wakanda is a fantasy just as much as Asgard or Camelot are - anything can be done really.

Anyway the Phantom pulled off being a white king in an isolated and feared African warrior nation. And he's been around a lot longer than Panther.

I think Jet Li could pull it off. Especially with Jason Statham backing him up as the head of Wakandan security. I want to see this movie.

Deadline
You don't want to make black characters white when they're still aren't that many black characters. Hell just because Obama became president doesn't mean we don't have any problems.

It's like BP is the only iconic black character we have and you wanna turn him white?

basilisk
Originally posted by Deadline
You don't want to make black characters white when they're still aren't that many black characters. Hell just because Obama became president doesn't mean we don't have any problems.

It's like BP is the only iconic black character we have and you wanna turn him white? He's not the only iconic black character - and he's not even that well known really. Most people have never heard of him. At least not until Jet Li makes him a household name!

I wouldn't do Cage or Blade with a white actor though, we've already had a great Blade on screen. Also Jet Li isn't exactly white, and Obama is half white.

Anyway, there is no reason why black writers can't come up with more compelling black characters to fill any perceived shortage of them (or any writers for that matter, given the creators of Black Panther, Blade, and Cage were all white dudes).

Bentley
Originally posted by basilisk
I don't think the whole of Wakanda would have to be changed, no more than they felt they had to explain why one black Asgardian existed amongst the white Asgardians, or why Queen Guinevere in Merlin is a black woman, they don't really need to explain these things. Maybe there are just people of Asian descent in Wakanda just like there are many in real life Africa, and the Wakandans are more tolerant towards other races than in the comics. Or maybe he and his Indian wife Storm happened to save Wakanda during some crisis where the previous Black Panther was killed before there was an heir, and the council recognized Jet Li as a great warrior and made him the new Panther and King. Wakanda is a fantasy just as much as Asgard or Camelot are - anything can be done really.

Anyway the Phantom pulled off being a white king in an isolated and feared African warrior nation. And he's been around a lot longer than Panther.

I think Jet Li could pull it off. Especially with Jason Statham backing him up as the head of Wakandan security. I want to see this movie.


My point is that you're making it a different story, of course you can change the mythos, but by doing it you're changing the character. You just changed the politics and history of Wakanda and now instead of looking like an african nation that rules itself, you're making it look as if it was conquered long ago and had foreign leaders -very different message.

Edit: Making Heimdall black doesn't change the fact Odin is their chief, nor the foundations of Norse Mythology, while changing Panther's ethnicity changes the entire Wakandan myth, because now Wakanda doesn't rule "itself".

Deadline
Originally posted by basilisk
He's not the only iconic black character - and he's not even that well known really. Most people have never heard of him. At least not until Jet Li makes him a household name!

I wouldn't do Cage or Blade with a white actor though, we've already had a great Blade on screen. Also Jet Li isn't exactly white, and Obama is half white.

Anyway, there is no reason why black writers can't come up with more compelling black characters to fill any perceived shortage of them (or any writers for that matter, given the creators of Black Panther, Blade, and Cage were all white dudes).

Wow two more! I don't know I don't really consider any of them to be iconic like Cap or Superman.

Bentley
Obama half white? That's a disgusting thing to say, it's like half-baked eek!

basilisk
Originally posted by Bentley
My point is that you're making it a different story, of course you can change the mythos, but by doing it you're changing the character. You just changed the politics and history of Wakanda and now instead of looking like an african nation that rules itself, you're making it look as if it was conquered long ago and had foreign leaders -very different message.

Edit: Making Heimdall black doesn't change the fact Odin is their chief, nor the foundations of Norse Mythology, while changing Panther's ethnicity changes the entire Wakandan myth, because now Wakanda doesn't rule "itself". Yeah but look at Obama - his father wasn't even American now he "rules" the USA. Doesn't mean the USA doesn't rule "itself" just because there is a noob American in charge. And I don't know why you would think that a nation with a racially diverse society must have been "conquered" at some point by those other races - it might have just allowed a lot of immigration like most western countries do.

Originally posted by Bentley
Obama half white? That's a disgusting thing to say, it's like half-baked eek! Apparently he is that too...
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-01-27/palin-sees-wtf-in-obama-s-half-baked-state-of-the-union.html

Bentley
Originally posted by basilisk
And I don't know why you would think that a nation with a racially diverse society must have been "conquered" at some point by those other races - it might have just allowed a lot of immigration like most western countries do.

Which is precisely my point, you cannot have Wakanda to act like "western country" because Wakanda it's not a western country. The concept of "fixing" the nation so it's behind the standards of what we consider a modern nation fails to grasp the whole point of Wakanda. Wakanda is like a fantasy "alternate world", if it's not "alternate", it has no business existing.

Also, if you think nations become racially diverse without ever being conquered or invaded, you're very naive.

basilisk
Originally posted by Bentley
Also, if you think nations become racially diverse without ever being conquered or invaded, you're very naive. I don't think that and I clearly didn't say that. I just pointed out that there are examples of countries where a massive increase in racial diversity occurred without conquest being the direct cause of it.


Which is precisely my point, you cannot have Wakanda to act like "western country" because Wakanda it's not a western country. The concept of "fixing" the nation so it's behind the standards of what we consider a modern nation fails to grasp the whole point of Wakanda. Wakanda is like a fantasy "alternate world", if it's not "alternate", it has no business existing. It's not about fixing it or making it western. It's just a reimagining just as making Camelot or Asgard racially diverse is a reimagining. Right, wrong, stupid? You will find people with all these opinions.

When they "reimagined" Battlestar Galactica they completely changed the concept of what the Cylons were, how they originated, and their relationship with humanity. They went from a conquering alien superpower to originating as slaves. They completely changed the characters including personality, gender, and ethnicity. The whole feel of the series totally changed. But many people think that by daring to do that they came up with something far better and more successful (of course many would also disagree).

All I'm really saying is it's about opinion not right or wrong. Wakanda is barely heard of compared to Asgard, Camelot, or BG, it's no more "sacred" or above changing than any of them. You will annoy some fans and please others, but if people can come up with a more interesting and popular version then so be it. Bring on Jet Li and Jason Statham.

Bentley
As I stated earlier, it's not that I think that changes cannot or shouldn't be done, what I am explaining is that race or ethnicity or history aren't neutral elements you can change in any mythos. Of course you can build a more popular Wakanda which revolves around a different background, but it wouldn't really be Wakanda anymore -only by name-. The concept of what Wakanda it's "meant to be" -I'm talking about comic, of course-, has a strong link with race and geography.

Of course, it can be argued whether I'm right or not about Wakanda, what I'm trying to make clear is that race can "matter" in a mythos, and thus you cannot justify it just like that. Heimdall being "white skinned" won't change the conceptual nature of the Norse myth, but the same change in another myth or concept would make it an entirely different thing.

basilisk
Originally posted by Bentley
Of course, it can be argued whether I'm right or not about Wakanda, what I'm trying to make clear is that race can "matter" in a mythos, and thus you cannot justify it just like that. Heimdall being "white skinned" won't change the conceptual nature of the Norse myth, but the same change in another myth or concept would make it an entirely different thing. I agree, but what matters will differ from person to person so who are we to say this can be changed and this can't? To many people changing Heimdall was just a nod to silly political correctness gone mad - that we aren't even allowed to portray a mythical kingdom of Scandinavian gods anymore without it being racially diverse.

Hmmm. Maybe in the Black Panther movie we could have among the Panther God's pantheon a white actor playing one of the traditional African gods . I'm thinking Keanu Reeves as Anansi the trickster...

Bentley
Imo, as long as race it's anecdotic in the story, you can bring in an actor of any ethnicity as long as he's good. You should choose the superior actor. As art is subjective you won't be able to make everyone feel ok about your end results, people will get offended one way or another, so you shouldn't try to please people that way.

I wouldn't mind a white Anasi, but I would mind a black T'challa.

Madvillain
Don't care.

He was good in the role, although it wasn't a particularly difficult character to portray.

jinzin
Originally posted by Madvillain
Don't care.

He was good in the role, although it wasn't a particularly difficult character to portray.

lol yeah he ended up being my favorite character aside from the odin brood.

Newjak
Yeah the guy did a great job and he was one of my favorites.

ExodusCloak
Originally posted by Bentley
Imo, as long as race it's anecdotic in the story, you can bring in an actor of any ethnicity as long as he's good. You should choose the superior actor. As art is subjective you won't be able to make everyone feel ok about your end results, people will get offended one way or another, so you shouldn't try to please people that way.

I wouldn't mind a white Anasi, but I would mind a black T'challa.

Pretty much. I wouldn't mind a white Shuri. In fact that would make things interesting if she turned out to be his adopted sister or something.

Black bolt z
Black or not, hiemdall was my favortie character.

Juk3n
I think it was a bad mistake that really had an impact on the story and charac..Oh Wait!

i thought the role was cast perfectly. Some people just need to exercise some suspension of belief (which you should already be practising going to see a MARVEL comic book adaption) and enjoy it on it's own merits. If you find yourself really REALLY affected by this, then you may have to come to terms with the fact that your brain works in a different way than anyone sane, and you're a dick. Kinda.

Doctor-Alvis
He was kinda cool, but when he talked he really reminded me of the Elcor Hamlet from Mass Effect 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uIfx32iAjzU

Deadline
Oh and by the way Thor is supposed to have red hair not blonde. Noticed nobody gives a **** about that.

super pr*xy
2 words..


clayton and bigsby..

K3VIL
After hearing people being able to argue T'Challa could be Jet Li, I've heard it all. What's next? Captain America becomes a samoan and Tony Stark an inuit? WTF

Bentley
Originally posted by Deadline
Oh and by the way Thor is supposed to have red hair not blonde. Noticed nobody gives a **** about that.


Not in comics he isn't.

That kind of bothered me when I started reading on Thor -because there are too many blondes in Marvel-, but it's not important at all. Just lets all recall that Hulk is green because gray ink was too expensive back in the day.

the ninjak
The actor who played Hiemdall was good.

Trackz
the argument for casting Black Panther,a major african character who has had race become a huge part of his history, as white/asian is hardly equatable to casting heimidall(however you spell it) as a black character.

Asgardians are gods, no reason race should matter to them.

The fact of the matter is the number of white characters to all other character is an overwhelming majority that doesn't really translate to the moviescreen which does its best to insert a bit of realism into marvel. Having everyone be white isn't realistic.

Now I know people aren't saying that but for certain characters theres no reason the best actor shouldn't be given the role regardless of ethnicity. Hell Stan Lee was fine with Donald Glover getting an audition for Spiderman because race hasn't really been a factor in any of his stories.

Glad to see that Idris Elba was able to prove that good characterization/acting>race of actor

roughrider
When is this thread going to get canceled, considering this is about the 'integrity' of casting for HEIMDALL, and people continue to misspell his name? What about that? miffed

Deadline
Originally posted by Bentley
Not in comics he isn't.

That kind of bothered me when I started reading on Thor -because there are too many blondes in Marvel-, but it's not important at all. Just lets all recall that Hulk is green because gray ink was too expensive back in the day.

Thats an insensitive and ignorant comment to make, you're not funny. I think you missed the point.

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