Marvels most versatile character...

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dmills
This battle is for the title of Marvel's most versatile character in terms of combat effectiveness. The criteria is as such. What character(s) has demonstrated the most dynamic power set in the pace of all out combat. I'm not asking for who's the biggest swiss army knife, but rather who are the character(s) that have most effectively displayed/used different abilities in the flow of dynamic combat situations.

Keep in mind that we're discussing dynamic applications of power sets, not heady solutions in the midst of battle ala spiderman or Reed Richards. However, tactical applications of power sets do count; i.e.;

http://i1215.photobucket.com/albums/cc513/dmills31/th_picsay-1302470700.jpg http://i1215.photobucket.com/albums/cc513/dmills31/th_picsay-1302471340.jpg



What I'm hoping to do is perhaps build a consensus top 5. Then i'll do a DC/Wildstorm version. Then a cross company version. However I fully expect this to unravel into shyte, but a guy can dream can't he?

Anyhow, my nominees in no particular order are;

Blackbolt
Quasar
Norrin
Nova Prime
Thor


As usual if I've missed anyone of note feel free to chime in. Who's the best of the bunch? What's your order? Oh and NO ONE ABOVE HIGH HERALD PLEASE!

Endless Mike
TOAA

Omnipotence = every power and ability ever

inimalist
strange, though I might lean more to Wiccan or Nico from Runaways, because they literally can do whatever they say they want to do

Omega Vision
If we cap it at HH I'd say Thor.

Surfer has more powers but in terms of 'combat effectiveness' Thor has him beat IMO. Thor has an admirably balanced fighting powerset.

dmills
Originally posted by Omega Vision
If we cap it at HH I'd say Thor.

Surfer has more powers but in terms of 'combat effectiveness' Thor has him beat IMO. Thor has an admirably balanced fighting powerset. See now THAT'S the type of response I'm looking for. Right in line with the stips thumb up

Endless Mike
TOAA is omnipresent and created Marvel, therefore every fight ever in Marvel actually involved TOAA, so he is the most versatile in fighting eek!

King Kandy
I'd nominate Adam Warlock as well. He is good at fighting people well outside of his weight class due to his great creativity in battle.

dmills
Originally posted by King Kandy
I'd nominate Adam Warlock as well. He is good at fighting people well outside of his weight class due to his great creativity in battle. Is that due to a versatile power set or simply due to him being a tactical genius in battle?

zopzop
Thor. He's BY FAR the most versatile character in Marvel (I'm speaking of sub Skyfathers of course).

Simbon
Contra Omega Vision, I'd still put Surfer above Thor -- he has busted out so many crazy moves over the years it isn't even funny, and he has won with many of them: going back in time to prevent someone from becoming omnipotent, stranding somebody else in the future, going astral, becoming microscopic in size, altering dna, healing himself after getting chopped into pieces, imprisoning genis in his board, the list goes on.

I'd say:
1) Surfer
2) Thor/BRB
After that, I feel more uncertain because of the effectiveness stipulation. Blackbolt has a lot of versatility, but how effectively does he use most of those powers? Also, DMills, when you say effective, do you mean in an absolute sense or relative to a given combat situation? For instance, Apocalypse has an insane range of feats, many of which he has deployed effectively, but most of these feats do not display really high levels of power.

I would also nominate:
Sersi
Loki

Rage.Of.Olympus
Originally posted by zopzop
Thor. He's BY FAR the most versatile character in Marvel (I'm speaking of sub Skyfathers of course).

Disagreed. I'd say he and Norrin are on the same level in terms of versatility but Norrin is more prone to pulling out the more exotic powers. This is primarily because Thor's a more physical character.

Thor's divinity -as well as Mjolnir- and Surfer's ill defined Power Cosmic means writers can have them pull powers out of their ass without raised eyebrows.

Rage.Of.Olympus
For this thread, I'd pick Thor. His an extremely powerful character physically, has the most powerful energy output out of heralds, and has easily one of the best defensive capabilities with Mjolnir's fields as well as energy absorption.

Thor may have never evolved life like Surfer but I'd pick him over Norrin in a heartbeat to fight a powerful entity like Odin, Thanos, Tyrant etc. Noticeably better odds imo.

Angel Watching
I too thing Adam Warlocks is versatile

dmills
Originally posted by Simbon
Contra Omega Vision, I'd still put Surfer above Thor -- he has busted out so many crazy moves over the years it isn't even funny, and he has won with many of them: going back in time to prevent someone from becoming omnipotent, stranding somebody else in the future, going astral, becoming microscopic in size, altering dna, healing himself after getting chopped into pieces, imprisoning genis in his board, the list goes on.

I'd say:
1) Surfer
2) Thor/BRB
After that, I feel more uncertain because of the effectiveness stipulation. Blackbolt has a lot of versatility, but how effectively does he use most of those powers? Also, DMills, when you say effective, do you mean in an absolute sense or relative to a given combat situation? For instance, Apocalypse has an insane range of feats, many of which he has deployed effectively, but most of these feats do not display really high levels of power.

I would also nominate:
Sersi
Loki In a dynamic sense. For the purposes of the thread power level doesn't matter. For example, both Thor and Nova have energy absorption feats/showings. Thor wins hands down in sheer volume of energy absorbed, however I think Rich uses his more effectively in the flow of live combat and in the number of ways he can apply it. Which do you consider more useful/valuable for the purposes of this thread is up to you. Does that make any sense?

Simbon
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus


Thor may have never evolved life like Surfer but I'd pick him over Norrin in a heartbeat to fight a powerful entity like Odin, Thanos, Tyrant etc. Noticeably better odds imo.

I wouldn't say that; I think it depends a great deal on the nature of the opponent. Between surfer, supes, and thor for instance, I would generally give thor the win over surfer, supes the win over thor, and surfer the win over supes (and not just because of weakness exploitation, either).

If thor has versatility advantage over Norrin in dealing with magical entities, but Surfer has so many odd feats that I think it offsets this, and that it is safe to say that, in general, he has greater effective versatility than Thor.

Simbon
Originally posted by dmills
In a dynamic sense. For example, both Thor and Nova have energy absorption feats/showings. Thor wins hands down in sheer volume of energy absorbed, however I think Rich uses his more effectively in the flow of live combat and in the number of ways he can apply it. Which do you consider more useful/valuable for the purposes of this thread is up to you. Does that make any sense?

OK, I think I see what you mean. In that case, Apocalypse, in spite of his vastly inferior power, should probably have a place on the list.

Mindset
Genis

dmills
Originally posted by Simbon
I wouldn't say that; I think it depends a great deal on the nature of the opponent. Between surfer, supes, and thor for instance, I would generally give thor the win over surfer, supes the win over thor, and surfer the win over supes (and not just because of weakness exploitation, either).

If thor has versatility advantage over Norrin in dealing with magical entities, but Surfer has so many odd feats that I think it offsets this, and that it is safe to say that, in general, he has greater effective versatility than Thor. You raise a good point about threat types. Perhaps Thor has a power set better suited to deal with magic. So wouldn't you say that his effective versatility surpasses Norrin since Thor can respond effectively to any situation, including magic?

Omega Vision
Originally posted by Simbon
Contra Omega Vision
And just like that your destruction was guaranteed. estahuh

ankur29
surfer
gladiator
sentry with molecule manip powers
thor

Simbon
Originally posted by dmills
You raise a good point about threat types. Perhaps Thor has a power set better suited to deal with magic. So wouldn't you say that his effective versatility surpasses Norrin since Thor can respond effectively to any situation including, magic?

I interpreted versatility as the array of techniques one can deploy in battle, not as the ability to deal with the widest array of situations. For instance, it is clear that Thanos can deal with pretty much any kind of threat: magical, physical, cosmic, psionic, you name it. However, it terms of combat, while he has displayed a little matter manipulation, he is really all about punching and blasting, so I'd say that even though he can deal with any situation, he is not that versatile compared to Surfer and Thor. Given this defintion of versatility, I'd say he is more versatile than Thor because he has a wider array of options.

batdude123
Originally posted by Omega Vision
If we cap it at HH I'd say Thor.

Surfer has more powers but in terms of 'combat effectiveness' Thor has him beat IMO. Thor has an admirably balanced fighting powerset.

"More versatile in terms of combat effectiveness" seems to be implying two different things.

Surfer, at least imo, is more "versatile" than Thor. Thor, on the other hand, is more "combat effective," though he normally does it through more primitive means.

Omega Vision
Originally posted by batdude123
"More versatile in terms of combat effectiveness" seems to be implying two different things.

Surfer, at least imo, is more "versatile" than Thor. Thor, on the other hand, is more "combat effective," though he normally does it through more primitive means.
I took it to mean versatile as in 'good to go in more kinds of combat situations'

dmills
Originally posted by Simbon
OK, I think I see what you mean. In that case, Apocalypse, in spite of his vastly inferior power, should probably have a place on the list. Doesn't his powerset generally revolve around his shapeshifting abilities? Not to say that he isn't versatile, but compared to the overall power sets of some of the others how does he stack up i.e. matter manip, energy manip, gravity etc?

dmills
Originally posted by batdude123
"More versatile in terms of combat effectiveness" seems to be implying two different things.

Surfer, at least imo, is more "versatile" than Thor. Thor, on the other hand, is more "combat effective," though he normally does it through more primitive means.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
I took it to mean versatile as in 'good to go in more kinds of combat situations'

This question is turning out to be more nuanced then I initially thought. Can't we achieve a happy medium?

batdude123
Originally posted by Omega Vision
I took it to mean versatile as in 'good to go in more kinds of combat situations'

mmm

In that case, yeah, I may give it to Thor over Surfer in the big picture.

Omega Vision
Originally posted by batdude123
mmm

In that case, yeah, I may give it to Thor over Surfer in the big picture.
Fighting someone like Thanos for instance.

dmills
Nah. I wasn't going for match up based power sets, although I can certainly see the temptation for going there. Shyte its already unraveling lol.

batdude123
Originally posted by Omega Vision
Fighting someone like Thanos for instance.

True, but then again, styles make fights. I'd give Surfer better odds against certain opponents than I would Thor.

Originally posted by dmills
Nah. I wasn't going for match up based power sets, although I can certainly see the temptation for going there. Shyte its already unraveling lol.

Then may I ask what exactly are you looking for here?

Existere
Originally posted by dmills
In a dynamic sense. For the purposes of the thread power level doesn't matter. For example, both Thor and Nova have energy absorption feats/showings. Thor wins hands down in sheer volume of energy absorbed, however I think Rich uses his more effectively in the flow of live combat and in the number of ways he can apply it. By this definition, I'd say Ironman meets the thread's criteria the best. As physically powerful as any meta-level brick, with a ridiculous amount of tech on him at all time that he uses effectively in combat, rounded off with his capacity to call on all previous technology and armors- a capability that he makes frequent use of.

Then I'd say Magneto and Dr. Doom follow.

Then some of the high heralds- Thor, Genis Vell and X-Man would all be contenders.

dmills
@batdude,

I was originally going for most versatile power sets in the midst of real time combat, hence its relative effectiveness. But I now realize that the question itself is a bit more nuanced (or dumb) then I originally thought.

For example. Norrin is in a fast paced fight with say, the Sentry. The fight is fast and fierce. Soon however, Bob begins to gain the upper hand physically, so Norrin decides to switch tactics in the midst of the struggle. He slows Bob's metabolism down to a crawl and then attacks him on a psionic level, thus giving him the win. That's an example of the type of dynamic combat versatility that I'm speaking of.

batdude123
Originally posted by dmills
I was going for most versatile power sets in the midst of real time combat, hence its relative effectiveness. But I now realize that the question itself is a bit more nuanced (or dumb) then I originally thought.

For example. Norrin is in a fast paced fight with say, the Sentry. The fight is fast and fierce. Soon however, Bob begins to gain the upper hand physically, so Norrin decides to switch tactics in the midst of the struggle. He slows Bob's metabolism down to a crawl and then attacks him on a psionic level, thus giving him the win. That's an example of the type of dynamic combat versatility that I'm speaking of.

I see.

So what's the power limit here?

dmills
Capped at HH.

King Kandy
Originally posted by Mindset
Genis
Oh yeah. I think he wins.

Mindset
Originally posted by King Kandy
Oh yeah. I think he wins. Pfft, fanboy. shifty

Sin I AM
Vision



super strength, density manipulation, flight, energy projection, energy and holographic manipulation, shapeshifting, and time travel.



as far as metas go, he's head and shoulders over the rest imo

Mindset
For characters like Doom are you counting armor?

If so, it's hard to be more versatile than he is.

dmills
Tech based power sets are fine, but to be clear, I'm not talking about prep. Whatever Doom has at his disposal normally is fine though. Just keep in mind though that this is as much about combat effectiveness as it is about general power set versatility.

Mindset
Doom doesn't need prep to be versatile.

Energy manip
Energy projection
Time Travel
Flight
Super strength
Force fields

And this is just his suit, with magic he can summon, teleport beings, open dimensions, etc.

dmills
Originally posted by Mindset
Doom doesn't need prep to be versatile.

Energy manip
Energy projection
Time Travel
Flight
Super strength
Force fields

And this is just his suit, with magic he can summon, teleport beings, open dimensions, etc.

Looks good. But how combat effective is he with all of that? Can he transition between those abilities effortlessly in the heat of battle? Here's an analogy you'd appreciate. Can he transition from the striking, to the clinch, to wrestling, to jujitsu and back to stand up striking without breaking a sweat wink

kgkg
Surfer - "It Only Does Everything"

Mindset
Originally posted by dmills
Looks good. But how combat effective is he with all of that? Can he transition between those abilities effortlessly in the heat of battle? Here's an analogy you'd appreciate. Can he transition from the striking, to the clinch, to wrestling , to jujitsu and back to stand up striking without breaking a sweat wink Yes.
In MA he went right from using his tech based powers to magic w/o hesitation.

dmills
Originally posted by Mindset
Yes.
In MA he went right from using his tech based powers to magic w/o hesitation. Is that the fight where he was owning everyone until Bob got pissed? Damnit I've been trying to add that to my collection but my lcs doesn't have the issue on back order.

Mindset
Originally posted by dmills
Is that the fight where he was owning everyone until Bob got pissed? Damnit I've been trying to add that to my collection but my lcs doesn't have the issue on back order. Yea, he kinda jobbed at the end, even considering Sentry's powers.

But I think this was around the time they were beginning to push Sentry to be a supreme power on Marvel Earth, so I'll accept it.

Sin I AM
mandarin

Simbon
Originally posted by dmills
Doesn't his powerset generally revolve around his shapeshifting abilities? Not to say that he isn't versatile, but compared to the overall power sets of some of the others how does he stack up i.e. matter manip, energy manip, gravity etc?

Yes, but doesn't Zatanna's versatility revolve around magic? smile Actually poccy's got lots of other feats, but they tend to emphasize his versatility rather than overall power. He's got:

1) first-class shape-shifting, and related abilities (flight, making weapons, etc.)
2) class 100 strength and durability
3) energy projection, absorption, manipulation
4) teleportation
5) phasing
6) vague-ass feats
7) tk (though this may count as 6)
8) wind-breath
9) in a non-cannon event he projected some kind of gas out of his hands that incapacitated the x-men
10) size alteration (although people exaggerate this)

He's not making the top of the list by any means, but if we are going by the array of options he has at his disposal in a fight, and his ability to go from one to the other, he is definitely in the running for a position on the list.

dmills
Originally posted by Simbon
Yes, but doesn't Zatanna's versatility revolve around magic? smile Actually poccy's got lots of other feats, but they tend to emphasize his versatility rather than overall power. He's got:

1) first-class shape-shifting, and related abilities (flight, making weapons, etc.)
2) class 100 strength and durability
3) energy projection, absorption, manipulation
4) teleportation
5) phasing
6) vague-ass feats
7) tk (though this may count as 6)
8) wind-breath
9) in a non-cannon event he projected some kind of gas out of his hands that incapacitated the x-men
10) size alteration (although people exaggerate this)

He's not making the top of the list by any means, but if we are going by the array of options he has at his disposal in a fight, and his ability to go from one to the other, he is definitely in the running for a position on the list. thumb up

dmills
Originally posted by Mindset
Yea, he kinda jobbed at the end, even considering Sentry's powers.

But I think this was around the time they were beginning to push Sentry to be a supreme power on Marvel Earth, so I'll accept it. I'd like to read a bit more Doom. What's the best relatively recent stuff?

Mindset
You'd have to ask OneDumbGo that, I haven't read comics in awhile.

batdude123
In all seriousness...

Hulk.

Mindset
Nah, the Thing.

celeyhyga17
Dont sleep on Xman... From "planck time" to psi armors to tp to wuteva...

carver9
Originally posted by Simbon
Yes, but doesn't Zatanna's versatility revolve around magic? smile Actually poccy's got lots of other feats, but they tend to emphasize his versatility rather than overall power. He's got:

1) first-class shape-shifting, and related abilities (flight, making weapons, etc.)
2) class 100 strength and durability
3) energy projection, absorption, manipulation
4) teleportation
5) phasing
6) vague-ass feats
7) tk (though this may count as 6)
8) wind-breath
9) in a non-cannon event he projected some kind of gas out of his hands that incapacitated the x-men
10) size alteration (although people exaggerate this)

He's not making the top of the list by any means, but if we are going by the array of options he has at his disposal in a fight, and his ability to go from one to the other, he is definitely in the running for a position on the list.

Isn't Apocalypse powers "the ability to grant himself any kind of power"? He can basically do anything.

TricksterPriest
Apoc isn't written at that level, sadly. sad If he had someone compedent writing him, he's easily in the top guys contending for this title.

Sin: Mandarin and Classic Vision are great examples. Current Vision isn't nearly as good at using them as the original. Mandarin for sure.

"Id"

Mindset
I've always hated Nate, trying to steal Cable's thunder. sneer

carver9
Nate is a very powerful character... he is up there with Surfer.

"Id"
Originally posted by Mindset
I've always hated Nate, trying to steal Cable's thunder. sneer

X-Man is to Kyle what Cable is to Hal. peaches

Mindset
http://28.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lfw6orFjF21qdlpxso1_400.gif

marwash22
Originally posted by dmills
This battle is for the title of Marvel's most versatile character in terms of combat effectiveness. The criteria is as such. What character(s) has demonstrated the most dynamic power set in the pace of all out combat. I'm not asking for who's the biggest swiss army knife, but rather who are the character(s) that have most effectively displayed/used different abilities in the flow of dynamic combat situations.

Keep in mind that we're discussing dynamic applications of power sets, not heady solutions in the midst of battle ala spiderman or Reed Richards. However, tactical applications of power sets do count; i.e.;

http://i1215.photobucket.com/albums/cc513/dmills31/th_picsay-1302470700.jpg http://i1215.photobucket.com/albums/cc513/dmills31/th_picsay-1302471340.jpg



What I'm hoping to do is perhaps build a consensus top 5. Then i'll do a DC/Wildstorm version. Then a cross company version. However I fully expect this to unravel into shyte, but a guy can dream can't he?

Anyhow, my nominees in no particular order are;

Blackbolt
Quasar
Norrin
Nova Prime
Thor


As usual if I've missed anyone of note feel free to chime in. Who's the best of the bunch? What's your order? Oh and NO ONE ABOVE HIGH HERALD PLEASE! are we counting characters who are versatile via the use of items? e.g. Thanos, Temugin, etc?

Uriel005
Rogue/Prodigy. There power is everyone elses.

"Id"
Originally posted by Uriel005
Rogue/Prodigy. There power is everyone elses.
How about Hope Summers.

Take what you know of Rouge. Only she mimic powers, at an amp level with out touching anyone.

JakeTheBank
I would definitely say beings like Iron Man and Dr. Doom meet the thread criteria. Doom is highly proficient and just as likely to hit your with his gauntlet beams as he is cast a spell.

If you're looking for HHs, Thor and Surfer are good picks.

753
Magneto, Doom, Silver Surfer and SNG

h1a8
The Silver Surfer

dmills
Originally posted by marwash22
are we counting characters who are versatile via the use of items? e.g. Thanos, Temugin, etc? No. I mean ill count people like Tony, Doom, Iron lad etc because their respective armors are their power-sets. However, artifacts etc will just make the waters more murky then they already are.

Sin I AM
hmmmmmmmmmmmm.....as far as metas id also like to mention


Iron Fist, Mimic, and Moonstone are versatile as well

Digi
If we're keeping it below Skyfather:

Classic Strange is my top.

After that it's Thor. Surfer often wins their vs. forum matchup, and I agree, but in terms of sheer versatility (and they both have oodles of feats) Mjolnir is a goddamn swiss army knife of versatility. He's like Mega Man x1000.

Here's a good way to gauge it: "If you were against someone, but didn't know who, who would you pick?" Surfer's the better matchup sometimes, but Thor's the all-around play. Surfer gets punked occasionally vs. certain power sets. Thor's far less likely to encounter such stomps (see also: Thanos's pimp hand).

4th, Doom

...

Metas? Tony, no question. I consider power sets like Mimic to be cheating for thread purposes, but yeah him too.

Sin I AM
Originally posted by Digi
If we're keeping it below Skyfather:

Classic Strange is my top.

After that it's Thor. Surfer often wins their vs. forum matchup, and I agree, but in terms of sheer versatility (and they both have oodles of feats) Mjolnir is a goddamn swiss army knife of versatility. He's like Mega Man x1000.

Here's a good way to gauge it: "If you were against someone, but didn't know who, who would you pick?" Surfer's the better matchup sometimes, but Thor's the all-around play. Surfer gets punked occasionally vs. certain power sets. Thor's far less likely to encounter such stomps (see also: Thanos's pimp hand).

4th, Doom

...

Metas? Tony, no question. I consider power sets like Mimic to be cheating for thread purposes, but yeah him too.



true, i didnt even really want to use him but it is what it is

marwash22
Originally posted by dmills
No. I mean ill count people like Tony, Doom, Iron lad etc because their respective armors are their power-sets. However, artifacts etc will just make the waters more murky then they already are. in that case, Thor isn't all that versatile without Mjolnir.

Blair Wind
Originally posted by Existere
By this definition, I'd say Ironman meets the thread's criteria the best. As physically powerful as any meta-level brick, with a ridiculous amount of tech on him at all time that he uses effectively in combat, rounded off with his capacity to call on all previous technology and armors- a capability that he makes frequent use of.


thumb up

dmills
Originally posted by marwash22
in that case, Thor isn't all that versatile without Mjolnir. Good point. Hehehe.

Silent Master
Even without Mjolnir, Thor still has weather control which is a rather versatile powerset.

tkitna
http://comparabl.com/images/comic_characters/impossible_man.jpg

dmills
Originally posted by tkitna
http://i1215.photobucket.com/albums/cc513/dmills31/picsay-1302579193.jpg

laughing

753
Originally posted by "Id"
How about Hope Summers.

Take what you know of Rouge. Only she mimic powers, at an amp level with out touching anyone. the thing is that she probably does more than mimic them. I believe she was born with all the mutant powers ever.

Q99
Let's take actual use into considering- copiers are kinda a cheat, but a lot of the time they aren't a fraction as creative as the original.

Rogue's one of the few copiers I know who comes up with *more* original uses for the powers she gets. For example, Emma+Scott=scatter lasers. Or using Rockslide+Dust+Mercury+Armor=Exploding armored metal forcefield-reinforced cloud of spikes.

Warlord
Surfer, Strange and Chaos Magic Wanda (even before HoM she was shown to provide anything required in order to get the job done)

Dum Dum Dugan
Magneto

bannedtroll007
Mad Jim Jaspers

Uriel005
I'd actually say any copycat/power absorber because their powers need to be learned on the fly often times. While they may get the basics of how to use the power along with it they lack the experience on the applications

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