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Instead of Hector facing him, what if it was Maximus? Both men are armed with their standard weapons. Who wins?

Achilles, despite being a crappy movie.

Hector was prolly just a small notch below maximus and he didn't land a single clean hit , not even a graize on skin, Achillies cannot lose a sword fight against a mere man. He winStomps!

Maximus doesn't stand a chance. Archilles 10/10

Hmmm...

I think Achilles wins. Achilles, in the film, seemed faster and had more agility.


I would say, however, that his fight with Maximus would be one of if not the toughest he fights.

Achilles was fast at single strikes or moves, but didn't seem particularly fast when it came to putting them together. Throwing combos if you will.

He also seemed a lot more arrogant and less creative and tactical then Maximus. A much more straight ahead kind of guy. Where as Maximus seemed to know what his opponents were going to do before they did and so could stay one step a head of them. The man made a career in the arena at beating long odds.

The way I see what ever physical advantages Achilles may have are negated the first time he stops to pose and Maximus takes his head off.

Achilles wins, hes a better warrior in every way excluding getting knocked over and fighting wars on the ground.

Achilles dominates him.

Why is everyone on Achille's dick? He was good, but he didn't overly impress. Maximus rapes.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Why is everyone on Achille's dick? He was good, but he didn't overly impress. Maximus rapes. Achilles was untouchable in combat. See how far he threw the spear it was superhuman. Maximus was very good but achilles was superhuman.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Achilles was untouchable in combat. See how far he threw the spear it was superhuman. Maximus was very good but achilles was superhuman.

Achilles in 1 on 1 combat:


hf4IoxEUmHM

He was "touched" at 2:50


Maximus in 1 on 1 combat, FF to 2:35:

eW39vOJhq1c&feature=related

Wait, there were tigers too!!!


And here, he fights with a friggin' hole in his back:

f8_vIWCx9C8

Achilles had a much better display of agility and strength than, Maximus imo. All of his one on one battles were completely one sided...,even when he was blatantly toying with Hector. He and his squad of a few dozen men ran through an onslaught of hundreds with the ease of Gods. We saw Maximus run the gauntlet of war as well but the soldiers and conditions were in his favor and he also had a horse. Maximus is definitely a veteran soldier but his talents are better utilized as a leader.

To RJ, as great of a feat as Maximus' last battle is. He is still fighting someone with no type of combat experience.

Originally posted by jinXed by JaNx
Achilles had a much better display of agility and strength than, Maximus imo. All of his one on one battles were completely one sided...,even when he was blatantly toying with Hector. He and his squad of a few dozen men ran through an onslaught of hundreds with the ease of Gods. We saw Maximus run the gauntlet of war as well but the soldiers and conditions were in his favor and he also had a horse. Maximus is definitely a veteran soldier but his talents are better utilized as a leader.

To RJ, as great of a feat as Maximus' last battle is. He is still fighting someone with no type of combat experience. Sure. Maximus took on dude with the mask and two friggin' tigers, that's all. He's at least as fast as Achilles. Less agile probably.

The last fight is a testament to his damage soak. At the very least, the dagger pierced his heart, but he still fought on.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Sure. Maximus took on dude with the mask and two friggin' tigers, that's all. He's at least as fast as Achilles. Less agile probably.

The last fight is a testament to his damage soak. At the very least, the dagger pierced his heart, but he still fought on.


I still don't think he is as fast. I don't think Maximus would have been dodging spears and arrows. You have to remember that Achilles was renowned and heralded as the greatest warrior in the land. Maximus was just a common general. I don't mean to take anything away from Maximus and his feats because they are grand but i still think Achilles and his men storming the beach for the first time dwarf anything Maximus displayed. He was dodging spears and arrows and constantly taking down several men at a time.

Originally posted by jinXed by JaNx
I still don't think he is as fast. I don't think Maximus would have been dodging spears and arrows. You have to remember that Achilles was renowned and heralded as the greatest warrior in the land. Maximus was just a common general. I don't mean to take anything away from Maximus and his feats because they are grand but i still think Achilles and his men storming the beach for the first time dwarf anything Maximus displayed. He was dodging spears and arrows and constantly taking down several men at a time.

Mhm, and this is 1 on 1 combat. Totally different.

Besides, two big ass tigers and a champion gladiator in one sitting is no small order. Nor is fighting with a hole in his heart. When dude was trying to stab him, Maximus was dodging without even looking at him.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Achilles in 1 on 1 combat:


hf4IoxEUmHM

He was "touched" at 2:50


Maximus in 1 on 1 combat, FF to 2:35:

eW39vOJhq1c&feature=related

Wait, there were tigers too!!!


And here, he fights with a friggin' hole in his back:

f8_vIWCx9C8 Yes, achilles was unscathed and dominated him. Maximus while very good wasn't unbeatable. Also the commodus win was impressive but the guy was a born coward and wasn't the greatest swordsman.

Achilles stormed the beach without that many men and did so easily.

You also dodged the spear toss. The guy's precision and strength were superhuman. His talents were unrivaled in combat. No one ever came close to beating him.

Maximus was a great leader but wasn't unbeatable in combat and the undefeated gladiator with the tigers was out of his prime.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Yes, achilles was unscathed and dominated him. Maximus while very good wasn't unbeatable. Also the commodus win was impressive but the guy was a born coward and wasn't the greatest swordsman.

Achilles stormed the beach without that many men and did so easily.

You also dodged the spear toss. The guy's precision and strength were superhuman. His talents were unrivaled in combat. No one ever came close to beating him.

Maximus was a great leader but wasn't unbeatable in combat and the undefeated gladiator with the tigers was out of his prime.

Damage soak, dude. Battle prowess.

K?

K so Achilles can throw a spear farther. And?

Out of his prime? He looked more formidable than anyone Achilles faced.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Damage soak, dude. Battle prowess.

K?

K so Achilles can throw a spear farther. And?

Out of his prime? He looked more formidable than anyone Achilles faced.

If you want to talk about battle prowess how about when Achilles led fifty of his mermen against hundreds. We could also discuss how he stormed Troy at the end. So yeah, lets talk battle prowess.

The fact that Achilles was able to hurl a spear that far and that accurately should not be taken lightly. However, i don't base his strength off of this. I gather that he is much stronger because he was knocking soldiers down with single strikes.

As for damage soak. All we can do is speculate because the only time Achilles took any type of damage is when he openly and blatantly let his guard down. Other than his death the most he sustained was a cut and scrape.

Originally posted by jinXed by JaNx
If you want to talk about battle prowess how about when Achilles led fifty of his mermen against hundreds. We could also discuss how he stormed Troy at the end. So yeah, lets talk battle prowess.

The fact that Achilles was able to hurl a spear that far and that accurately should not be taken lightly. However, i don't base his strength off of this. I gather that he is much stronger because he was knocking soldiers down with single strikes.

As for damage soak. All we can do is speculate because the only time Achilles took any type of damage is when he openly and blatantly let his guard down. Other than his death the most he sustained was a cut and scrape.

I'm talking 1 on 1. Maximus had his heart pierced, survived, fought and won. Or was it his lung? Either way, Achilles never showed that type of prowess and/or willpower.

So he'd make a good olympian?

Speculatory my ass. Hole in the lung and Maximus kept fighting.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
He looked more formidable than anyone Achilles faced.

Except Achillies himself, so the point is moot. Achilies was toying with Hector also, BLATANTLY obvious to anyone not actively trying to ignore it. Theres no question Achillies was more agile, likely edging in strength too, better battle awareness and just as tactical, just better really.

Originally posted by Juk3n
Except Achillies himself, so the point is moot. Achilies was toying with Hector also, BLATANTLY obvious to anyone not actively trying to ignore it. Theres no question Achillies was more agile, likely edging in strength too, better battle awareness and just as tactical, just better really.

Show me where Achilles fought a formidable opponent AND two tigers at once.


Go ahead, I'll wait.

What would be the point? You're acting like facing a Tiger is difficult for a battle hardened master swordsman, not just a 'master' THE greatest swordsman who ever lived.

I have a question for you. Don't dodge it, or i'll just take it as a concession and be done. Did Maximus demonstrate anything beyond what Achillies could accomplish in your opinion? You keep referencing th"tiger" feat, do you honestly believe that is beyond someone like achillies?

i mean..really?

(Just a yes or no answer please, keep it simple)

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Damage soak, dude. Battle prowess.

K?

K so Achilles can throw a spear farther. And?

Out of his prime? He looked more formidable than anyone Achilles faced. I don't think he looked more formidable than hector either. Achilles was completely in control against anyone he faced unlike Maximus. Maximus wasn't portrayed as some unbeatable swordsman either.

The spear throwing feat shows two things beyond Maximus. Extreme skill and extreme strength.

Maximus wasn't always completely in control like Achilles was always depicted.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
I'm talking 1 on 1. Maximus had his heart pierced, survived, fought and won. Or was it his lung? Either way, Achilles never showed that type of prowess and/or willpower.

So he'd make a good olympian?

Speculatory my ass. Hole in the lung and Maximus kept fighting.

It was the lung.

Achilles never showed battle prowess? Except of course when running around and slaughtering groups of men, some he barely stopped to look at and having an almost precog-like ability to sense arrows coming at him from the rear. (The opening battle at the beach)

Really, I think you just like to pick the lesser opponent and then debate ad vomitum.

Originally posted by Robtard
It was the lung.

Achilles never showed battle prowess? Except of course when running around and slaughtering groups of men, some he barely stopped to look at and having an almost precog-like ability to sense arrows coming at him from the rear. (The opening battle at the beach)

Really, I think you just like to pick the lesser opponent and then debate ad vomitum. Nah, I just think Max was just as fast, had way higher damage soak. the scene where he's fighting the tigers and dude, it's faster paced than anything in Troy. They were like 'clangclanclangclangclang', whereas in Troy, it was more like 'clang...clang...clancclang....'


Originally posted by Juk3n
What would be the point? You're acting like facing a Tiger is difficult for a battle hardened master swordsman, not just a 'master' THE greatest swordsman who ever lived.

I have a question for you. Don't dodge it, or i'll just take it as a concession and be done. Did Maximus demonstrate anything beyond what Achillies could accomplish in your opinion? You keep referencing th"tiger" feat, do you honestly believe that is beyond someone like achillies?

i mean..really?

(Just a yes or no answer please, keep it simple) His speed and presence of mind, keeping from being mauled AND fighting off that dude was pretty impressive. Achilles didn't show anything in Troy that suggested he would survive that.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Nah, I just think Max was just as fast, had way higher damage soak. the scene where he's fighting the tigers and dude, it's faster paced than anything in Troy. They were like 'clangclanclangclangclang', whereas in Troy, it was more like 'clang...clang...clancclang....'


Maximus wasn't as fast or agile and he didn't show Achilles battle-awareness of everything around him. We don't really know Achilles' damage soak, as the dude only got nicked in his fights cos he's that good.

How many arrows did it take to drop Achilles though? That could could towards damage-soakiness.

Now saying Achilles will run in and drop Maximus in a second, it will definitely be a battle, but one was portrayed as human and one showed semi superhuman-like abilities.

Originally posted by Robtard
Maximus wasn't as fast or agile and he didn't show Achilles battle-awareness of everythign around him. We don't really know Achilles' damage soak, as the dude only got nicked in his fights cos he's that good.

How many arrows did it take to drop Achilles though? That could could towards damage-soakiness. You think Achilles could take a knife to the lung, live, fight for ten minutes and win? Maximus, until the lung shot, only got nicked too. Not even nicked.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
You think Achilles could take a knife to the lung, live, fight for ten minutes and win? Maximus, until the lung shot, only got nicked too. Not even nicked.

Achilles took several arrows and wasn't dropped. So a similar knife wound not stopping him is possible.

Dude is more of a killing machine, not that Maximus is shit.

Look at 1:18. Dude has battle awareness that is super-human. Moves his shield to his back a split second before an arrow hits, he never once looked back to see the archer in the rear. Those tigers wouldn't have touched him, let alone brought him to the ground.

FA7ogKm3Py8

Originally posted by Robtard
Achilles took several arrows and wasn't dropped.

Dude is more of a killing machine, not that Maximus is shit.

Look at 1:18. Dude has battle awareness that is super-human. Moves his shield to his back a split second before an arrow hits, he never once looked back to see the archer in the rear. Those tigers wouldn't have touched him, let alone brought him to the ground.

FA7ogKm3Py8 Maximus displayed similar feats. He was fighting dude, 'clangclangclangclangclang' and at the last second, without looking at it, blocked the tigers paw swipe with his shield.

They're pretty even in this respect.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Maximus displayed similar feats. He was fighting dude, 'clangclangclangclangclang' and at the last second, without looking at it, blocked the tigers paw swipe with his shield.

They're pretty even in this respect.

Similar, but lesser; which is the point . In the end, Maximus wears out and is dropped. Be like a more epic version of Achilles and Hector.

The cooler character and better film by a factor of 10 loses.

Originally posted by Robtard
Similar, but lesser; which is the point . In the end, Maximus wears out and is dropped. Be like a more epic version of Achilles and Hector.

The cooler character and better film by a factor of 10 loses. He wears out....after being stabbed in the lung? Or the tiger fight?

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
He wears out....after being stabbed in the lung? Or the tiger fight?

If you didn't notice, he does show signs of wear in his fights when he can't end them after a couple blows. Achilles doesn't, he was a fresh and fast from the first blow on Hector to the last.

Also, Commodus was a douche and not some master swordsman, so it's not like he had a tough opponent while fighting wounded.

ajaRy6I8JC0&feature=related

/thread.

Originally posted by Nephthys

/thread.

That shit won't work on Maximus, he's more than a lumbering idiot who stands.

Originally posted by Robtard
If you didn't notice, he does show signs of wear in his fights when he can't end them after a couple blows. Achilles doesn't, he was a fresh and fast from the first blow on Hector to the last.

Also, Commodus was a douche and not some master swordsman, so it's not like he had a tough opponent while fighting wounded. Maximus showed no signs of slowing in any of his fights, not DURING the fight anyway.

What matters is that Max was able to fight despite the hole in his lung.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Maximus showed no signs of slowing in any of his fights, not DURING the fight anyway.

What matters is that Max was able to fight despite the hole in his lung.

Yeah, he does. The one with the fat retired champion and tigers he's slowing down towards the end.

And he fought slow from the wound. Do you really think when Achilles wounds him and he slows down, he'll be a threat?

Originally posted by Robtard
Yeah, he does. The one with the fat retired champion and tigers he's slowing down towards the end.

And he fought slow from the wound. Do you really think when Achilles wounds him and he slows down, he'll be a threat?

No, he was going full speed pretty much to the end.


The tiger fight scene was much more fast paced than anything in Troy. Maximus, able to react to said fights, is faster.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
No, he was going full speed pretty much to the end.


The tiger fight scene was much more fast paced than anything in Troy. Maximus, able to react to said fights, is faster.

Achilles > Maximus

Gladiator film >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Troy and its mother.

Originally posted by Robtard
Achilles > Maximus

Gladiator film >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Troy and its mother. Troy bored me. I seriously fell asleep 3/4 through.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Troy bored me. I seriously fell asleep 3/4 through.

This is why you're gay and no one likes you. Go watch the rest of it and then come back.

Originally posted by Robtard
This is why you're gay and no one likes you. Go watch the rest of it and then come back. http://i698.photobucket.com/albums/vv341/jedibeastie2/curious01280613.jpg

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Nah, I just think Max was just as fast, had way higher damage soak. the scene where he's fighting the tigers and dude, it's faster paced than anything in Troy. They were like 'clangclanclangclangclang', whereas in Troy, it was more like 'clang...clang...clancclang....'


His speed and presence of mind, keeping from being mauled AND fighting off that dude was pretty impressive. Achilles didn't show anything in Troy that suggested he would survive that.

You seem to always avoid Achilles' feat of storming the beach with only 50 other men against hundreds. During this scene Achilles dropped groups of soldiers with a showcase of speed that dwarfs anything that Maximus displayed. Not only that, he did it without being touched

Originally posted by jinXed by JaNx
You seem to always avoid Achilles' feat of storming the beach with only 50 other men against hundreds. During this scene Achilles dropped groups of soldiers with a showcase of speed that dwarfs anything that Maximus displayed. Not only that, he did it without being touched

He had help, not every soldier was focused on him. It's completely different than fighting a champion Gladiator and two tigers, all of which want to kill you.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
He had help, not every soldier was focused on him. It's completely different than fighting a champion Gladiator and two tigers, all of which want to kill you. And Achilles would still come through such a fight better off than Maximus did.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
And Achilles would still come through such a fight better off than Maximus did. One thing has nothing to do with the other, man.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
He had help, not every soldier was focused on him. It's completely different than fighting a champion Gladiator and two tigers, all of which want to kill you.

You really think a tiger would surprise Achilles even after I showed how he covered his back with shield a split-second before an arrow struck? Dude has super-human-ish levels of awareness.

Put Achilles in that fight, he guts the retired champion before the tigers are released and then slaughters all three tigers and does another "look at me, I'm Brad ****ing Pitt" pose.

Originally posted by Robtard
You really think a tiger would surprise Achilles even after I showed how he covered his back with shield a split-second before an arrow struck? Dude has super-human-ish levels of awareness.

Put Achilles in that fight, he guts the retired champion before the tigers are released and then slaughters all three tigers and does another "look at me, I'm Brad ****ing Pitt" pose. One was killed by Joaquin Phoenix. The other by Orlando Bloom.

Maximus wins.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
One was killed by Joaquin Phoenix. The other by Orlando Bloom.

Maximus wins.

Yeah... Bloom+bow is superior to Phoenix with sword.

No, not going from screen feats. He is way "cooler" though.

Oh well, I disagree.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Oh well, I disagree.

Concession accepted.

Originally posted by Robtard
Concession accepted. It's not a concession, it's me losing interest. Maximus is faster and has more damage soak, IMO he wins.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
It's not a concession, it's me losing interest. Maximus is faster and has more damage soak, IMO he wins.

Yet he literally isn't faster nor does he have higher damage soak.

Achilles was shot through the Achilles tendon, which made him scream like a pansy and its an indicator to the legend of him losing his powers. He then took three arrows to the stomach(1-2 he pulled out) and was still walking forward until the fourth stopped him and he dies about 5 minutes later.

5 arrows > 1 stab wound.

Sure. Punctured lung then fighting on, killing a man 20 minutes later, that's silly.

Have no idea if it actually punctured his lunch. Though I do suspect it as I think Maximus was bleeding from the mouth, but there was no coughing and he seemed to be breathing alright.

No one said Maximus' feats are silly, just lesser all around, speed, likely strength, and damage-soak.

Not the damage soak, dude, and not speed.

other than, maybe choreography what leads you to believe achilles is slower?

man, i gotta give RJ credit, even when he's dead wrong, he'll continue to back a loser. props!

that said, Achilles stomps.

Originally posted by jinXed by JaNx
other than, maybe choreography what leads you to believe achilles is slower? The fact that when Maximus was fighting the guy and two tigers, the action was far more fast paced than anything in Troy. The fact that Maximus fought on with a punctured lung.

Faster and higher damage soak. This is being ignored because of the hard on you guys have for Achilles.

Originally posted by marwash22
man, i gotta give RJ credit, even when he's dead wrong, he'll continue to back a loser. props!

that said, Achilles stomps. Case in point.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
Oh. You think that because Maximus is the superior character, that he's the superior fighter.

Yeah, no. Achilles stomps. Not even close to what I am saying.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Maximus runs away with this one. Every valid point you could ever hope to make, thrown away with a fanboy comment quoted above.

Anyone of us debating againtyou could let slide an "ithink id give the edge to maximus for so & so reasons". But now you say he stomps? for reasons of character? LOL. Maximus has no revenge lust here. He replaces hector , so thats out eh? In single combat there is nothing to suggest Maximus walks awy from this at all. In single combat, Achillies is more skilled, stronger and more agile. Damage soak doesn't come into play because no foreign blade has ever touched his body in his entire life..such is the extent of his 'enchantment'. But even discounting that he displays a level of single combat prowess beyond that of maximus.

Achillies getting his sword arm caught like Lucious did? You reach too far RJ. I knw you sometimes lik to play devils advocate, and you know what no one makes good case for the underdog quite like you..MOST of the time. But this isn't one of those times.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Not even close to what I am saying.

Originally posted by Robtard
Hey, RJ. Passion (love of his cousin) and revenge(over the death of his cousin) is what Achilles would be bringing to this fight; what he brought to Hector. Freedom, Maximus didn't give a shit about freedom, he only wanted to bring down the emperor. By the time Achilles fought Hector he didn't give two shits about fame, he was planning to leave Troy in the morning. So they're both bringing what you claim would be a winning mix. Passion and revenge. Maybe you should watch all of Troy before going on?

Because on the battle-field Achilles is practically invincible. So now Maximus stomps? Good lord. Fail. Maximus was much more in revenge mode.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Fail. Maximus was much more in revenge mode.

So you go on a tirade about Maximus' agenda and Achilles, which you were partially wrong with Maximus and just about completely wrong with Achilles and your retort is "Maximus has more revenge."? LoL, dude.

Anyhow, Maximus is replacing Hector here. So Maximus woudn't be in any kind of "revenge mode", only Achillies, as Maximus would have been the one to slit the cousin's throat in this scenario. Though that is irrelevant, Maximus can be twice as butt-hurt as he was in his film here and it's still not saving him.

You pretty much admitted that you're backing the lesser opponent just to back the lesser opponent, it takes more balls to say "alright, I was wrong", than is does to be a stubborn *******.

Originally posted by Robtard
So you go on a tirade about Maximus' agenda and Achilles, which you were partially wrong with Maximus and just about completely wrong with Achilles and your retort is "Maximus has more revenge."? LoL, dude.

Anyhow, Maximus is replacing Hector here. So Maximus woudn't be in any kind of "revenge mode", only Achillies, as Maximus would have been the one to slit the cousin's throat in this scenario. Though that is irrelevant, Maximus can be twice as butt-hurt as he was in his film here and it's still not saving him.

You pretty much admitted that you're backing the lesser opponent just to back the lesser opponent, it takes more balls to say "alright, I was wrong", than is does to be a stubborn *******. Rob, Maximus was in a constant state of "I'm gonna get mine." It's what drove him. It drove him much more than it drove Achilles. It was literally controlled rage.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Rob, Maximus was in a constant state of "I'm gonna get mine." It's what drove him. It drove him much more than it drove Achilles. It was literally controlled rage.

Maybe you should watch Troy all the way? <--- seriously

Because "controlled rage" is exactly Achilles' state of mind when he fought Hector, you can see it in his face(@ 1:15 & 6:57, bad acting though) and how he fights.

Proof:

2Glly5JA5h0

I saw it all the way through. Maximus was faster and had way more damage soak.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
I saw it all the way through.

Maximus was faster and had way more damage soak.

Two pages ago you said you "seriously feel asleep" 3/4 into it.

So when the "passion, revenge, freedom and controlled rage" angles didn't pan-out for you, you're back to previously failed "faster and more damage soak". Whatever, dude. Continue to be a stubborn idiot.

Originally posted by Robtard
Two pages ago you said you "seriously feel asleep" 3/4 into it.

So when the "passion, revenge, freedom and controlled rage" angles didn't pan-out for you, you're back to previously failed "faster and more damage soak".
I finished it. Obviously.

The controlled rage and his resolve are a factor, like it or not.

No, I still think...know....he's faster than Achilles and has higher damage soak.


Calm down, dude.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
I finished it. Obviously.

The controlled rage and his resolve are a factor, like it or not.

No, I still think...know....he's faster than Achilles and has higher damage soak.


Calm down, dude.

Then why the BS claims towards Achilles.

And Achilles brings those very same factors to this fight, like it or not.

Yes, well aware that once you take a stance, no matter how indefensible and foolish, you'll stick to it, cos.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm not calm and this 'debate' is affecting me. As I said, whatever, dude.

Originally posted by Robtard
Then why the BS claims towards Achilles.

And Achilles brings those very same factors to this fight, like it or not.

Yes, well aware that once you take a stance, no matter how indefensible and foolish, you'll stick to it, cos.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm not calm and this debate is affecting me. As I said, whatever, dude.

What BS claim?

Maximus even moreso.

Sure.

See? Toldja so.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
What BS claim?

Maximus even moreso.

Sure.

See? Toldja so.


That Achilles only fought for fame and glory, if you paid attention to the film and what I said, fame and glory wasn't what Achilles fought for when he faced Hector.

Not in this set-up, but you'll ignore the conditions of this fight.

You basically said as much in regards to Marwash's comment, dude.

Done with the trolling?

Originally posted by Robtard
That Achilles only fought for fame and glory, if you paid attention to the film and what I said, fame and glory wasn't what Achilles fought for when he faced Hector.

Not in this set-up, but you'll ignore the conditions of this fight.

Exactly.

Done with the trolling?

I never said that was ALL he fought for. You telling me he didn't let his "invincibility" go to his head?

Nah, I know the conditions.

Indeed.

Oh Rob, you think it is actually possible for me to troll you? The fact that you are accusing me of trolling you is lulz.

I said this:

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Oh well, I disagree.


Then you pulled your usual high school goading attack, sucking me back into it. Baiting much?

Just accept that I think Maximus is faster and has higher damage soak. I know you won't, but I'm gonna give you the benefit of the doubt,

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
I never said that was ALL he fought for. You telling me he didn't let his "invincibility" go to his head?

Nah, I know the conditions.

Indeed.

Nice edit of my post.

Oh Rob, you think it is actually possible for me to troll you? The fact that you are accusing me of trolling you is lulz.

I said this:

Then you pulled your usual high school goading attack, sucking me back into it. Baiting much?

Just accept that I think Maximus is faster and has higher damage soak. I know you won't, but I'm gonna give you the benefit of the doubt,

Pretty much what you said. His ego was warranted, he was the best. But as noted, fame and glory (ie ego) wasn't his state of mind when he faced Hector. You were wrong.

Yes, you know. I said you're ignoring them.

Not that you are, that you're trying, RJ.

Not how it went down and "usual HS goading attacks"? More trolling.

Again, not you're angle, you're being a stubborn idiot to be a stubborn idiot. But as I said "whatever, dude" <--- that's me letting it go.

Originally posted by Robtard
Pretty much what you said. His ego was warranted, he was the best. But as noted, fame and glory (ie ego) wasn't his state of mind when he faced Hector. You were wrong.

Yes, you know. I said you're ignoring them.

Not that you are, that you're trying, RJ.

Not how it went down and "usual HS tactics"? More trolling.

Again, not you're angle, you're being a stubborn idiot to be a stubborn idiot. But as I said "whatever, dude" <--- that's me letting it go.

K.

Nah.

Naaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah.

Sure.

K.

http://ewnews.files.wordpress.com/2010/06/troll-doll_240.jpg

See? Calm.

Covered that three times now. I'm not calm and you got me, good job.

See: Whatever, dude.

You really didn't seem calm.

That's the fourth attempt with the "calm down" troll-maneuver, shooting for half a dozen are we?

Just making an observation, dude. And I'm not trolling. I tell you to "calm down" all over the forum and you never were butt-hurt about it, now all of a sudden?

Ding! #5. Just need one more and you got your half dozen, bro. GO FOR IT!

PS Adding "butt-hurt" was clever, a double-whammy.

Sure, Rob. You insult me, and when I shrug it off and tell you to calm down, I'm trolling. This is my "Whatever dude" moment.


I love it how when I retaliate back I'm always the bad guy, whereas the person who drew First Blood (see what I did there?) is squeaky clean.

k.

To stay on-topic (cause it's fun!), I still haven't seen anything that puts Maximus' skill above Achilles'.



Now you guys shut up and start talking about the stuff that's important, dammit.

I never questioned his skill. I am saying that Maximus is faster and has more damage soak.

Based on what? Have you measured their speed empirically? Or are you just going on 'he looks faster to me'? Cuz he sure as shit doesn't to me. Achilles has the superior skill and he's a good deal stronger than Maximus. He'd take this easily imo. Hector would be more in Maximus' range.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
To stay on-topic (cause it's fun!), I still haven't seen anything that puts Maximus' skill above Achilles'.


Because there really isn't, jack-hole.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Based on what? Have you measured their speed empirically? Or are you just going on 'he looks faster to me'? Cuz he sure as shit doesn't to me. Achilles has the superior skill and he's a good deal stronger than Maximus. He'd take this easily imo. Hector would be more in Maximus' range. In Troy, there's not one fight scene that's as fast as when Maximus fought Tigris.

In Troy, Achilles shows far less damage soak.

Got proof of that? Last I checked Achilles was the one blitzing people, not Maximus.



Do you really think that will make the slightest bit of difference? Achilles isn't a clumsy moron like Emperor Sillypants. Any cut he makes will only increase the gap between the two fighters, something Maximus absolutely cannot afford when he's already the lesser fighter, and any significant wound will allow Achilles to automatically win. All he has to do is play keep away and wait for him to bleed out.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Got proof of that? Last I checked Achilles was the one blitzing people, not Maximus.



Do you really think that will make the slightest bit of difference? Achilles isn't a clumsy moron like Emperor Sillypants. Any cut he makes will only increase the gap between the two fighters, something Maximus absolutely cannot afford when he's already the lesser fighter, and any significant wound will allow Achilles to automatically win. All he has to do is play keep away and wait for him to bleed out.


I'm talking about the speed at which Maximus and dude clashed swords. Not to mention the tigers.

Fighting with a punctured lung is impressive, dude. Why you ignoring that?

Originally posted by the ninjak
Maximus doesn't stand a chance. Archilles 10/10

The speed the clashed swords? And I supposed you actually timed this rather than just going 'daw, thasts faster!'? Come back with some real evidence next time.



Because if Maximus gets his lung punctured against Achilles he's ****ing toast.

Originally posted by Nephthys
The speed the clashed swords? And I supposed you actually timed this rather than just going 'daw, thasts faster!'? Come back with some real evidence next time. It was non stop pretty much. Maximus showed greater reaction speed in that fight than Achilles did in any of his 1 on 1 fight/s. Tell ya what, babe, post a vid of Achilles fighting someone 1 on 1 with superior reaction speed.



How you figure that? He already showed that he can hack it. Hole in the lung? **** it, still gonna fight.

Well, I see "superior reaction speed" being thrown around but no actual measures. We can makes comparative claims without comparative measures. Otherwise, it's just one person saying one thing and the other another.


Edit - Nephthys, the burden to prove that Achilles is faster is just as much on us as it is RJ. I don't feel like doing as I'm not that interested in pwning. But what if RJ DOES do a frame by frame with a blade speed measure? Will you do the same? lol This could get interesting.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Well, I see "superior reaction speed" being thrown around but no actual measures. We can makes comparative claims without comparative measures. Otherwise, it's just one person saying one thing and the other another.


Edit - Nephthys, the burden to prove that Achilles is faster is just as much on us as it is RJ. I don't feel like doing as I'm not that interested in pwning. But what if RJ DOES do a frame by frame with a blade speed measure? Will you do the same? lol This could get interesting. No good vids online of Gladiator.

Achilles destroys him.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Well, I see "superior reaction speed" being thrown around but no actual measures. We can makes comparative claims without comparative measures. Otherwise, it's just one person saying one thing and the other another.



Comparing both fights, sword swinging is about the same speed from a eye-perspective, as the actors are all human and none of them martial artist. Titus (the champion) does seem a bit slower, probably cos he's much older and fatter than Crowe, Pitt and Bana.

The opening battle of spears in Troy, that is a bit faster paced, it's like a dance.

One thing that is easily noticeable between the two fights, the complexity and agility of the moves. In gladiator, it's a straight clash; in Troy, it's dance-like, more-so from Pitt.

from 2:50 (excuse the music)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0TPzwx4Uw7c&feature=related

From: 5:20 (excuse Pitt's accent and poses)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Glly5JA5h0

Yes, the beach scene from Troy. The ones where the cannon fodder are running right into his sword. They night as well be screaming "kill meeeeeeeeeee!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

And let's not forget, let's not forget, dude, that a group battle is different than a 1 on 1. After all, Black Mamba cakewalked the 88, but then had trouble with 1 girl.

So yeah, best if we use Achilles' 1 on 1's here.

The scene I posted is the Hector Achilles fight, the one that's being recreated here.

The beach scene still shows Achilles being a total bad-ass and even though you'll down-play it, his insanely high level of battle awareness, the 'moving shield to back to stop arrow without looking', guy has some sort of precog or a spider-sense-like ability.

K, and what I just said. Group battles and 1 on 1's are apples and oranges. Again, see the Black Mamba reference.

Precog/spidey sense, my hairy ass. haermm

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Precog/spidey sense, my Harry ass. haermm

awesome




My "Tonks" ass works even better, me thinks. hmm

Originally posted by dadudemon
awesome




My "Tonks" ass works even better, me thinks. hmm All he did was strap a damn shield on his back. He knew arrows were gonna be coming at him. It's like a cop putting on a bulletproof vest before a house raid. So yeah, he's pro-active.

On a side note, I re-watched Troy today. Achilles was a scumbag. All he cared about was making sure his name was remembered forever. Arrogance. Sure, when his cousin was killed he crossed over into revenge, but he was such a blind idiot that he could not see that Hector was not really at fault.

****ing idiot. And the arrow through the heel? Lulz, man, he acted like someone had ripped his spine out of his *******. It was all he could do to get to his feet and lumber towards the Elf. Little if any damage soak.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
All he did was strap a damn shield on his back. He knew arrows were gonna be coming at him. It's like a cop putting on a bulletproof vest before a house raid. So yeah, he's pro-active.

On a side note, I re-watched Troy today. Achilles was a scumbag. All he cared about was making sure his name was remembered forever. Arrogance. Sure, when his cousin was killed he crossed over into revenge, but he was such a blind idiot that he could not see that Hector was not really at fault.

****ing idiot. And the arrow through the heel? Lulz, man, he acted like someone had ripped his spine out of his *******. It was all he could do to get to his feet and lumber towards the Elf. Little if any damage soak.

WTF?


Go back and read the post of yours that I quoted. Not your post, but that quoted portion in my post.

Originally posted by dadudemon
WTF?


Go back and read the post of yours that I quoted. Not your post, but that quoted portion in my post. I did.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
All he did was strap a damn shield on his back. He knew arrows were gonna be coming at him. It's like a cop putting on a bulletproof vest before a house raid. So yeah, he's pro-active.

On a side note, I re-watched Troy today. Achilles was a scumbag. All he cared about was making sure his name was remembered forever. Arrogance. Sure, when his cousin was killed he crossed over into revenge, but he was such a blind idiot that he could not see that Hector was not really at fault.

****ing idiot. And the arrow through the heel? Lulz, man, he acted like someone had ripped his spine out of his *******. It was all he could do to get to his feet and lumber towards the Elf. Little if any damage soak.





Idiotic down-play of a character you simply want to see lose. GET A SHREAD OF OBJECTIVITY, RJ, it's sad. <--- report me for that too

He put the shield to back a split-second before the arrow struck. So yeah, it was like precog or extreme battle awareness.

Hector killed the cousin thinking it was Achilles, it's a war though, Hector would have killed the cousin just the same if he'd known.

Guess you're unaware of the legend, heel is his weakness, they were alluding to that. It took 4 arrows to the gut/body to drop him, that is "damage-soak".

Originally posted by Robtard
Idiotic down-play of a character you simply want to see lose. GET A SHREAD OF OBJECTIVITY, RJ, it's sad. <--- report me for that too How so? So if a cop in a movie straps on a vest then the vest stops bullets, he has precog?

The latter at best. Precog haermm

Achilles failed to realize that his gay cousin threw himself in harm's way.

Achilles= Spoiled brat. I laughed when he died.

The arrows barely entered him. Inch or two, max.

Doesn't change the fact that he looked like he was blowing a load when the arrow struck his heel. Maximus? He woulda pulled out the arrow and cornholed the Elf with it.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
How so? So if a cop in a movie straps on a vest then the vest stops bullets, he has precog?

The latter at best. Precog haermm

Achilles failed to realize that his gay cousin threw himself in harm's way.

Achilles= Spoiled brat. I laughed when he died.

The arrows barely entered him. Inch or two, max.

Doesn't change the fact that he looked like he was blowing a load when the arrow struck his heel. Maximus? He woulda pulled out the arrow and cornholed the Elf with it.

Are you being a moron on purpose? It would be like a cop in the middle of a shoot-out putting on a vest a split second before a bullet hits him in the back as he's just finished with opponents to his front.

No, he was well aware what his cousin did.

LoL, more downplaying. Next you'll be saying you could take 4 arrows to the gut.

Again, you need to know the story. After the heel shot, he got up and started after Paris.

Originally posted by Robtard
Are you being a moron on purpose? It would be like a cop in the middle of a shoot-out putting on a vest a split second before a bullet hits him in the back as he's just finished with opponents to his front.

No, he was well aware what his cousin did.

LoL, more downplaying. Next you'll be saying you could take 4 arrows to the gut.

Again, you need to know the story. After the heel shot, he got up and started after Paris.

Observe:

MI8tMgc2I4A

At 1:25 Achilles takes the arrow to the heel. Watch his reaction, it's like he's howling at the moon. Pain!!!!! Compare that to when Commodus stabbed Maximus in the lung. Maximus barely grunted. AND Maximus lived for a while, fought at impressive speed, won, and stayed alive to give his men final orders. Achilles? He CRIED. Where's the invincibility? Where's the PRECOG? Hmm? Taken out by a gay ass elf. Pathetic.

Achilles labors to his feet. Four more arrows, none of which penetrated more than a couple of inches. You can see how deep they went in when he pulls them out. Moot point, after the arrow to his foot (epic lulz, dude), he was done.

And yes, Achilles was an arrogant scumbag douchebag. A spoiled brat. Hector was ten times the man he was.


Sooooooooooo....Maximus has WAY more damage soak and a MUCH higher threshold for pain. AND he's just as fast.






So, any new business?

That's kind of like when you get a paper cut in your hand webbing and it stings like a b*tch, but them some people go out and get shot and don't even notice right away. Human body is kinda messed up for our pain receptors some times.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
That's kind of like when you get a paper cut in your hand webbing and it stings like a b*tch, but them some people go out and get shot and don't even notice right away. Human body is kinda messed up for our pain receptors some times.

Sure, Maximus merely grunting when stabbed in the lung can be explained like that

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Observe:

At 1:25 Achilles takes the arrow to the heel. Watch his reaction, it's like he's howling at the moon. Pain!!!!! Compare that to when Commodus stabbed Maximus in the lung. Maximus barely grunted. AND Maximus lived for a while, fought at impressive speed, won, and stayed alive to give his men final orders. Achilles? He CRIED. Where's the invincibility? Where's the PRECOG? Hmm? Taken out by a gay ass elf. Pathetic.

Achilles labors to his feet. Four more arrows, none of which penetrated more than a couple of inches. You can see how deep they went in when he pulls them out. Moot point, after the arrow to his foot (epic lulz, dude), he was done.

And yes, Achilles was an arrogant scumbag douchebag. A spoiled brat. Hector was ten times the man he was.


Sooooooooooo....Maximus has WAY more damage soak and a MUCH higher threshold for pain. AND he's just as fast.

So, any new business?

The heel was a reference to the legend and Achilles' one weakness. Might as well call Superman a pussy for being affected by kryptonite. He still got up and it took four arrows to drop him to his knees.

I am a moron for debating with you for more than a couple post, done this enough times to know that once you set yourself on a winner, you'll do what you do, regardless. Going to remedy my idiocy now.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Sure, Maximus merely grunting when stabbed in the lung can be explained like that

Well, no...that actually works quite well in most cases.

Some soldiers and cops, in the line of duty, do not even notice that they've been shot until the action subsides.


However, a punctered lung is not something you'd, "power" through. So, it doesn't work well to explain severe, debilitating injuries.




What works better is this: mace to the face. If a person is raging enough, mace to the face might actually make them rage even more. I consider that to be exactly like what happened with Maximus. Comode-us raped and killed his family; betrayed his "father", friend, and leader; and was making a mockery of his nation. All good reasons to get a grade-A ass-whoopin and ignore the pain. His rage made him power through it.

Despite the hallucinations.

Originally posted by Robtard
The heel was a reference to the legend and Achilles' one weakness. Might as well call Superman a pussy for being affected by kryptonite. He still got up and it took four arrows to drop him to his knees. The heel thing was bullshit, obviously. It would have had the same affect if it had hit him in the calf, or thigh. Achilles relied greatly on mobility, the arrow to the heel nuked his mobility, hence the myth.

He took an arrow to the heel and was done, dude. He could barely move. The other arrows were nothing more than flesh wounds. You see how skinny the arrows were, AND that they were not barbed? AND that they didn't, you know......Puncture his damn lung. You think an arrow to the heel would have kept Maximus from fighting? Hee hee hee nah.

If that makes you feel better.

Maximus= Higher damage soak by far. Higher pain threshold by far. Just as fast, if not faster. All facts, duder.

What I just said= Win. I love being right.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Well, no...that actually works quite well in most cases.

Some soldiers and cops, in the line of duty, do not even notice that they've been shot until the action subsides. Maximus didn't receive the wound, then seconds later fight. It was at least 15 minutes. he was aware of it the entire time. He surely knew he was mortally wounded, and.....well, here:

N4dHhBDSuj0


Hell, even with a punctured lung the action, at times, is faster than Achilles vs Hector.


A punctered lung sounds painful.




Exactly. This powered him throughout the movie, and there's no reason to say he won't have the same state of mind in this fight.

No shit, he was shot in the foot.

And this rendered him useless. Maximus would pull a McClane, suck it up and save the day.

Could you be more biased?

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi

Achilles? He CRIED. Where's the invincibility? Where's the PRECOG? Hmm? Taken out by a gay ass elf. Pathetic.

Achilles labors to his feet. Four more arrows, none of which penetrated more than a couple of inches. You can see how deep they went in when he pulls them out. Moot point, after the arrow to his foot (epic lulz, dude), he was done.

And yes, Achilles was an arrogant scumbag douchebag. A spoiled brat. Hector was ten times the man he was.



Heel shot = Plot device from the legend, get a clue. Trying to take it at face value as something acheiveable by Maximus is madness.

Just reaized how mAd you are at this thread. Lol, an "arrogant scumbag" AND a "douchebag" all in one sentence? definition of butthurt much?

Maximus lasts about as long as Hector. No sword or spear can touch Achillies flesh, by feats he can't be beaten in melee. You'll argue, and thats to be expected. But the truth is evident now..

You maaadd , you maaad.
Hey!, He's pretty .
Duude, that dude is !
He's dude, id leave it alone if i were you!
OMG, ive never seen anyone so .
Dad..is that guy ? He sure is son. That there goes one man.
ness? No , THIS..IS..
Dont make me you wouldn't like me when im

At the end of the day all maximus is better at is getting cut up. Which is good, because thats what he's going to be doing in this fight.

Originally posted by Nephthys
At the end of the day all maximus is better at is getting cut up. Which is good, because thats what he's going to be doing in this fight. /thread.

Originally posted by Juk3n
Heel shot = Plot device from the legend, get a clue. Trying to take it at face value as something acheiveable by Maximus is madness. But never said nor shown in the movies. Achilles was just an extremely gifted fighter. He was not favored by the Gods, nor was he invincible.

Nah, I just really don't like the character. I'm loling at the thread.

No sword or spear can touch Achilles' flesh? I call bullshit. Prove that. Screen feats, not mythological bullshit.

Maximus displayed higher damage soak. Maximus displayed higher pain tolerance. Maximus displayed higher resolve. Maximus was at least as fast.

No? OK, I'll play. Let's start with damage soak. What's your argument for Achilles there?

Originally posted by Nephthys
At the end of the day all maximus is better at is getting cut up. Which is good, because thats what he's going to be doing in this fight. Maximus displayed higher damage soak. Maximus displayed higher pain tolerance. Maximus displayed higher resolve. Maximus was at least as fast.

No? Prove me wrong. Show me where Achilles displayed higher damage soak. Show me where Achilles showed a higher tolerance for pain. Show me where Achilles was faster in a 1 on1 battle.


Go ahead, I'll wait.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Maximus displayed higher damage soak. Maximus displayed higher pain tolerance. Maximus displayed higher resolve. Maximus was at least as fast.

No? Prove me wrong. Show me where Achilles displayed higher damage soak. Show me where Achilles showed a higher tolerance for pain. Show me where Achilles was faster in a 1 on1 battle.


Go ahead, I'll wait.

Your mistake is thinking that any of that matters.

Achilles displayed higher skill. /thread.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Your mistake is thinking that any of that matters.

Achilles displayed higher skill. /thread.

It all matters.

Higher damage soak, higher pain tolerance, higher resolve, higher stamina, equal if not greater speed, these factor into all MVF threads.

Maximus displayed just as much skill with a sword when he fought Tigris as Achilles did when he fought Hector. Not to mention he was fighting two tigers at the same time, and he used his sword left and right handed. /thread.

The "myth" behind Achilles has you guys under some hypnotic spell.

OMFG it was pretty clear that while the "spiritual" part of Troy's story was softened a lot, it was still there. We even have three characters expressing three different views:

Achilles: does not believe in gods or anything spiritual. Dies stupidly by the arrows of the cowardiest warrior.

Priam: believes the gods will take care of everything, relies completely on them. Dies in shock and regret.

Hector: believes in gods but also on humanity's own value. Dies as a brave heroe, the noblest of all.

Achilles was punished by the gods (Apollo) because of his past arrogance, the desecration of Apollo's temple and for butchering Apollo's priests. Apollo is the god "who kills from afar" so, Achilles the bravest warrior of all, was punished and killed from afar. When his heel was pierced, whatever blessing he had, was removed. And he felt mortality for the first time.


Achilles still destroys puny Maximus.

No it does not. Maximus getting stabbed against Achilles is a death sentence. He won't be able to recover from it.



Yeah, bullshit.

Achilles owned everyone in the movie with ease. Tigris was effing retired for effs sake. He was like 50. Hardly equatable to Hector.



And here I thought fighting more than one person didn't matter.

Originally posted by MetalIsDead
OMFG it was pretty clear that while the "spiritual" part of Troy's story was softened a lot, it was still there. We even have three characters expressing three different views:

Achilles: does not believe in gods or anything spiritual.

Priam: believes the gods will take care of everything, relies completely on them.

Hector: believes in gods but also on humanity's own value.

Achilles was punished by the gods (Apollo) because of his past arrogance, the desecration of Apollo's temple and for butchering Apollo's priests. Apollo is the god "who kills from afar" so, Achilles the bravest warrior of all, was punished and killed from afar. When his heel was pierced, whatever blessings he had, was removed. And he felt mortality for the first time.


Achilles still destroys puny Maximus.

Other than the individuals' perspectives on "the gods", everything else you said is not in the movie.

And, no, Apollo died because his heel was the only part no dipped in the river Styx. Because Thetis had to hold him by his ankle to dip him (she should have just dropped him in and plucked him out), the spot left un-dipped is his ankle.

All the rest of what you talk about does not apply. What's actually going on in the movie is the "making of" history and the exaggerations. It's more of a story about people who believed in gods that weren't there and it's supposed to show you were the legends started.

Achilles is just an awesome fighter. For being "invincible" he sure looked hung over and tired in the beginning of the film.

The "heel" thing was to show the audience how the "legend" started and how we get the theology on Achilles from Statius in his Archilleid. The writers/director were trying to show us that the myths were partially in reality.


Here's a reality check: most likely, Statius made up the invulnerability part or he was incorporating a contemporary exaggeration that was circulating at the time of his Archilleid writing. There's more evidence that this "Achilles heel" weakness is actually wrong. This is stuff you learn in Greek mythology (it's a required class for my degree but I learned most of this stuff in middle school. )

Originally posted by dadudemon
everything else you said is not in the movie.

We'll have to agree to disagree then, both our points of view are backed up by the movie.

Originally posted by MetalIsDead
We'll have to agree to disagree then, both our points of view are backed up by the movie.

Nah. Your point of view is what I would consider and intelligent perspective or take on the films.


The points I made were and expansion on the "making of" and commentary.

Originally posted by Nephthys
No it does not. Maximus getting stabbed against Achilles is a death sentence. He won't be able to recover from it. How you figure that? Maximus is just as fast, probably faster. In the Troy fight scenes, Achilles wins mostly on speed.



I'm sorry, who exactly did Maximus lose to?


Yeah.....



Point is that the tigers weren't practically running onto his sword. They were there as a distraction as he fought Tigris.




Doesn't matter how you slice it, all that matters is:


Maximus displayed higher damage soak. Maximus displayed higher pain tolerance. Maximus displayed higher resolve. Maximus was at least as fast.

No? Prove me wrong. Show me where Achilles displayed higher damage soak. Show me where Achilles showed a higher tolerance for pain. Show me where Achilles was faster in a 1 on1 battle.


Go ahead, I'll wait


See, you Achilles supporters, all you have left is "B-b-b-b-but it's Achilles!!!"

Pathetic.

Achilles won by being far more skilled and just much better than everyone else.



Who did Achilles lose to?


Yeah......



Whereas all the people Achilles owned were. Your bias is amazing.



Keep calling us pathetic. See where it gets you.

Prick.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Achilles won by being far more skilled and just much better than everyone else. And none of his opponents were as good as Maximus. Not in any way, shape or form.


Speed was Achilles' biggest ally. Take away his speed and mobility like Parish did, and, well.......you saw what happened.


To a foot wound. Doooooooooooh.



During the beach scene, yes, they were running right up to him, looked like they were begging to be killed.



When did I call you pathetic? I said your argument was pathetic. It wasn't a personal attack.

Right back at you. None of Maximus' opponents were as good as Achilles.

And I'd put Hector on Maximus' level.



Well its a good thing that Maximus has a bow and can surprise Achilles from behind.

Oh......Wait......



Shot from behind. And then shot a further 3-4 times.

But yeah, I'm sure Maximus would just walk that off with his l33t damage soak.



Obviously Achilles was just so powerful a combatant that they couldn't even attack him fully. Not something that could be said about Maxi, now is it?

Originally posted by Nephthys
Right back at you. None of Maximus' opponents were as good as Achilles.

And I'd put Hector on Maximus' level. Indeed. But Maximus possesses all that is required to win here.


K.



That's the point, he was distracted and surprised.





Shot in the foot, which pretty much finished him. The other arrows didn't penetrate that deep, two inches max.


Maximus took a shot to the lung. He had a hole punched in it and still fought at near to full speed.



Mhm, and Maximus is gonna run right onto his sword. Sure.

The ability to respond better to sharp objects?

What exactly does he have thats better than Achilles other than that?



Your point?

It's not like Achilles is distracted and surprised in this fight.




It would be the smart thing to do.

Originally posted by Nephthys
The ability to respond better to sharp objects?

What exactly does he have thats better than Achilles other than that? Damage soak, pain tolerance, resolve, pure grit.

Speed is close.



That was a shot at his awareness.




Achilles better make sure not to stab him in the lung.

Originally posted by Robtard
Comparing both fights, sword swinging is about the same speed from a eye-perspective, as the actors are all human and none of them martial artist. Titus (the champion) does seem a bit slower, probably cos he's much older and fatter than Crowe, Pitt and Bana.

The opening battle of spears in Troy, that is a bit faster paced, it's like a dance.

One thing that is easily noticeable between the two fights, the complexity and agility of the moves. In gladiator, it's a straight clash; in Troy, it's dance-like, more-so from Pitt.

from 2:50 (excuse the music)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0TPzwx4Uw7c&feature=related

From: 5:20 (excuse Pitt's accent and poses)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Glly5JA5h0

Looking at those vids Tigris showed non of the guile and trickery of Hector. Achilles would have diced him up very quickly before the tigers ever became an issue.

Achilles destroys Maximus. I'm not even sure Maximus would walk away from a fight with Hector alive. But yeah, Hector is more his speed, Achilles would dominate.

Nah, Achilles takes this pretty handily. It's not just about speed of hand/blade movement that comes into play... but Achilles foot work and entire body speed was tremendous in the movie (respect to Brad Pitt). He looked like a freakin cat in that movie.

Also have to say that Achilles looks stronger. He lopped off the head of a marble statue with one blow after all. Damage soak won't even come into play coz I doubt Maximus will be able to land a blow on Achilles.

Maximus was badass and all, but I've got to say that as far as sword and sandals movie versions go, you probably won't find any other human character that looks like he can beat Achilles. Not Maximus, not hector, not Aragorn, not Conan, not Red Sonja, not Leonidas, not the beastmaster, not even Buliwyf from 13th warrior... (let's hope the new Conan will be good though).

Maybe legolas and Prince Nuada can take him... but then again they're not human.

Lulz, I love how the fact that the fight scenes in Gladiator, especially the one on ones, are much faster than in Troy.


Lulz.

LOL what a joke. Achilles in a curbstomp

Achilles does toy with him. He wins pretty easily.