New Nintendo console - Wii U

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Ushgarak
http://uk.wii.ign.com/articles/116/1161875p1.html

Not much to add, I guess!

MooCowofJustice
Not sure I like the sound of Nintendo trying to recapture the hardcore market. But I suppose my complaints would depend on how one defines a hardcore gamer.

I just don't want to see Nintendo trying to make some FPS games like Call of Duty.

Bardock42
Originally posted by Ushgarak
http://uk.wii.ign.com/articles/116/1161875p1.html

Not much to add, I guess! Though, with this thread, it is rumored just a little bit more.

Ushgarak
Indeed!

If Nintendo release a new high power console six years after the Wii that can genuinely rival the PS3 and 360 on power- the rumour says it can beat them, but we'll see- and at a reasonable price, I do think it makes the ten year plans of those consoles look silly. The Wii already made more than both of them probably ever will; if Nintendo can steal a march on them twice it is just nuts.

BackFire
Maybe a high powered system like this will finally lure in quality third party support for a change.

Bardock42
Originally posted by Ushgarak
Indeed!

If Nintendo release a new high power console six years after the Wii that can genuinely rival the PS3 and 360 on power- the rumour says it can beat them, but we'll see- and at a reasonable price, I do think it makes the ten year plans of those consoles look silly. The Wii already made more than both of them probably ever will; if Nintendo can steal a march on them twice it is just nuts.
I agree, I was always wondering whether Nintendo is just going to play along with the 10 year plan. It seemed pointless for them as they played a much different strategy from the start (like, not losing money with their console, and stuff).

And it seems to me like it should be no problem now to beat the 5 year old rival consoles at the high end at a reasonable price. It's obvious that casual gamers don't care about speed and specs, but if Nintendo can continue to offer them what they want and also compete at the high end market that could be potentially great for them. I feel like they've had an amazing strategy this generation and they could surely build on that. (I also think the 3DS is a great device, which is more in a market where they are starting to compete with a company that's also been driving an amazing strategy, Apple)

Morridini
I do miss the days of the N64 and NGC, when Nintendo was on par (arguably) with the PS1/Dreamcast and PS2. We just seemed to get a lot better Nintendo games when the playing field was that even.

General Kaliero
It'll be an interesting dichotomy if this is true, and the new system is backwards-compatible with the Wii. Though I think that could also be a good plan, honestly; if you've got the power under the hood for games to compete with the "hardcore" trends while keeping the legacy and library of simpler casual games, you're uniquely positioned to capture both sides of the market.

On the other hand, this could be a misstep as, if GDC '11 is anything to go by, the industry is very interested in a console-free gaming future.

Bro SMASH
I can't picture people NOT expecting Nintendo to announce their new console at this year's E3. I knew they were gonna do this since last year.

Smasandian
I don't think the console will flourish like the Wii did. The people who bought the console that would never buy a 360/PS3 will suddenly replace the Wii with a higher powered console, I just don't see the casual audience doing that.

Also, Nintendo would need to prove to hardcore gamers that they can provide excellent 3rd party support that is able to compete with Sony/MS. They might but given their track record since the GameCube, I wouldn't bet on it.

In the end, I'm interested in what Nintendo can do with their first party software (HD Zelda would be awesome) but can you see a casual buyer, buy another $300 console in the near future. I'm not sure.

Tha C-Master
Casual seems best for them, they haven't won out in the hardcore market in quite some time. Who knows?

S_D_J
Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
Not sure I like the sound of Nintendo trying to recapture the hardcore market. But I suppose my complaints would depend on how one defines a hardcore gamer.

I just don't want to see Nintendo trying to make some FPS games like Call of Duty.

They don't need to... but having the same PS3/360 COD on their platform, and not a dumb down version, should be interesting


so the controller would be some kind of tablet?

I find tablets uncomfortable... but at least it'll have some buttons on it erm

Originally posted by Smasandian
I don't think the console will flourish like the Wii did. The people who bought the console that would never buy a 360/PS3 will suddenly replace the Wii with a higher powered console, I just don't see the casual audience doing that.

Also, Nintendo would need to prove to hardcore gamers that they can provide excellent 3rd party support that is able to compete with Sony/MS. They might but given their track record since the GameCube, I wouldn't bet on it.

In the end, I'm interested in what Nintendo can do with their first party software (HD Zelda would be awesome) but can you see a casual buyer, buy another $300 console in the near future. I'm not sure.

My thoughts exactly. I might be proven wrong, but I don't think they can have the same success with casual gamers, besides the wimote gimmick, they offered simplicity... the Ipad-like controller could be intimidating

The 3DS, as good as it's doing, it's not selling as expected... it's even outsold by the PSP in Japan no expression ... it doesn't help it's got almost nothing to play on it

Impediment
Nintendo needs to step up with the big boys and finally quit pandering to the "family theme", in my opinion.

S_D_J
M$ has already gone the "family" route... it seems to be paying off for them no expression

Ushgarak
I think pricing will be very important. I'll be fine with it being no great advance on 360 or PS3 if it's cheap. In fact, I think that will work very well for them- they'll be much more likely to pick up the causal Wii adopters again that way.

If it is expensive then I'm sceptical even if it is significantly better than the existing consoles.

Erde Kaiser
I think the sheer amount of casual games for the Nintendo platforms makes people either forget or fail to realise that there are actually an abundance of games on both platforms geared to the more commited gamer as well. The DS and Wii have, by far, the biggest and best library of serious adventure games and RPGs and they're pretty competitive as far as action/adventure and non shooter action games are concerned as well. In many respects the PS3/PSP and 360 have a pretty pathetic gaming library to the more commited gamer.

Nephthys
Only because Japan makes enough handheld RPGs to choke a walrus.

Bardock42
Originally posted by Impediment
Nintendo needs to step up with the big boys and finally quit pandering to the "family theme", in my opinion.

Yeah, buckets of money are gross.

Smasandian
Originally posted by Ushgarak
I think pricing will be very important. I'll be fine with it being no great advance on 360 or PS3 if it's cheap. In fact, I think that will work very well for them- they'll be much more likely to pick up the causal Wii adopters again that way.

If it is expensive then I'm sceptical even if it is significantly better than the existing consoles.

I'm not sure casual gamers really give a shit about the console being in HD. Even at $200 bucks, I don't know if it will entice casual gamers to replace their Wii's, which I would suspect they don't play very much.

In my opinion, having an HD Nintendo console would be designed to go after the gamer market but the console will have the noticeably better than current generations, have top notch content and lastly, have a comparable user friendly online system.

Ushgarak
Of course the HD thing is irrelevant to casual gamers. However, after six years since original release, I think 'new and improved' might have more resonance to potential casual buyers than you might think. So then it just has to be affordable.

Zack Fair
Originally posted by BackFire
Maybe a high powered system like this will finally lure in quality third party support for a change.

Smasandian
Originally posted by Ushgarak
Of course the HD thing is irrelevant to casual gamers. However, after six years since original release, I think 'new and improved' might have more resonance to potential casual buyers than you might think. So then it just has to be affordable.

That's true.

I'm only coming from personal experience but the reason why I thought the Wii did extremely well that it got mothers/fathers, grandparents and others that would never pick up a controller before. Would a new console have the same impact? I don't think it will. Those type of people don't even have their Wii hooked up anymore. I just don't see them buying another Nintendo console just because it has updated graphics.

The problem I see for Nintendo is that they have to create a console more powerful than the current HD consoles but that will increase the cost of it to a point where casual buyers might be disinterested.

Bardock42
I don't know, HD is already a well established marketing gimmick, could work here too stick out tongue



http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/hdtv.png

Smasandian
That's true.

I think I could way of seeing if the casual gamer would buy another console if it was HD version of it.

If they have an HDTV, do they still watch regular cable and not HD cable. If they're not willing to upgrade cable to HD, would they pay another $300 bucks for an HD Wii?

FistOfThe North
it's gonna be a mainstream system again. i'll pass. although i do like the 3ds.

i was never into portable but this one's blown me away. if it comes out in xl i'll consider getting one, but then you got the psp2 which look just as attractive..

S_D_J
Originally posted by Bardock42
I don't know, HD is already a well established marketing gimmick, could work here too stick out tongue



http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/hdtv.png

Is HD important to the casual market?

HDTV are all the rage now, you got the "1080p" marketing thing all over the place and it helps sells... but then again most people buy a "really big TV" and then go home and watch dvds on them... not caring a bit about resolution and stuff.


The ipad controllers sound expensive... even the xbox is much more expensive than a wii... and this new one is supposed to be better than an xbox

Supossedly you can stream and entire game to the controller... that's got to be more expensive than a psp

Mist_haermm
If you have a HD TV and the console doesn't support HD resolution, its gonna look stretched and blurry, so it's not a 'hardcore gamer' gimmick, it's a common sense/necessary technology update.

Im hoping that the second analog stick will emulate the motion aiming input for Wii games instead of making the controller motion control again, because the last thing I want to do after a long day at work is wave my arms around at the tv to play a game sleepy

srankmissingnin
I'm sure at this point all the Big Three are well into the development of their next gen console, but don't think Nintendo would gain anything from being the one to force a next gen console "arms race". The Wii costs nothing to make and it mints money, and the likely hood of Nintendo's next console having anywhere near the same level of success is unlikely. If Nintendo announced a new console at E3, Microsoft and Sony would make official announcements right after, and it would only result in Nintendo losing ground to the other two in market share. I think Nintendo and Sony want this current gen to last as long as possible, Sony to recoup from selling at a loss early on, and Nintendo just to rack in as much money as possible before they get dethrone next gen. Microsoft is barely holding onto the second place seat (less than 3 mill ahead of Sony even with a years headstart), they could announce a next gen console later this year / next year when Sony passes them in consoles sold... but I think more likely they will announce a price cut instead. I don't think there is much chance we will hear anything about the next gen consoles this year at E3, maybe next year.

You can barely read text formatted for HD games on a standard def tv, I'm sure that the developers could easily address that... but since they choose not to, I would say an HDTV is pretty much essential for gaming.

Ushgarak
Microsoft and Sony have stated 10 year plans for their consoles, so Nintendo can easily steal a march.

srankmissingnin
Originally posted by Ushgarak
Microsoft and Sony have stated 10 year plans for their consoles, so Nintendo can easily steal a march.

The PS3 was released six years into the PS2's life cycle and the PS2 is still on the market now in it's eleventh year... hell it still gets new games from time to time. A 10 year console life span doesn't prohibit Sony form lunching a new console, it just means the PS3 will still be on the market as an alternative until 2016.

Sony and Microsoft wont allow Nintendo to start the nextgen without them.

Ushgarak
No, they specifically said about it lasting ten years before launching a new one- and about how console lifecycles have changed. Microsoft have concurred since Kinect came out.

So... yes, they might have to allow it actually. They don't actually have the R&D budget to just get a new one out on demand like that. Prohibitive development costs were part of their given reasoning.

srankmissingnin
Originally posted by Ushgarak
No, they specifically said about it lasting ten years before launching a new one- and about how console lifecycles have changed. Microsoft have concurred since Kinect came out.

So... yes, they might have to allow it actually. They don't actually have the R&D budget to just get a new one out on demand like that. Prohibitive development costs were part of their given reasoning.

I'd love to see a quote where it is specified that the "10 year life span," is referring to the time before the launch of another console and not just the total shelf life. Kotaku is my home page, and I frequent all the other major video game websites daily and I have never seen even a single quote that has even eluded to that. In the last couple of months we have seen a string of "don't expect a new console anytime soon," quotes from all three major companies (including Nintendo)... but a 2012/13 release date wouldn't exactly contradict that.

I'm not suggesting they would have to rush to market with something just to compete, I'm saying all three of them are ready to go at a moments notice when one of them forces the issue. Nintendo, Microsoft and Sony haven't been siting on their laurels for the last six years, the likely started R&D for their next consoles the moment the current gen consoles lunched. If anyone of the Big Three announced a new consoles, all three would release something new within a year of one another.

Ushgarak
Not my fault that you missed them (that is, Microsoft and Sony, not Nintendo) talking about development costs as the reason for longer lifecycles.

Anyway, you'll soon see how wrong you are.

Bardock42
I think Microsoft could afford it if they wanted to, they are a rich, rich company, but it would just be burning money, they obviously decided they want to have the Kinect be their "next generation" and to abort that plan now would be ridiculous.

And it might not be a bad strategy at all, they sold what, like over 10 million of the Kinect in record time? If they get games out on it, and sell more of them, they might have a winning strategy. I don't think that the console market can only have one winner anyways, Microsoft has achieved a lot by launching XBox, for their other products as well. Sony, I don't know enough about.

srankmissingnin
Originally posted by Ushgarak
Not my fault that you missed them (that is, Microsoft and Sony, not Nintendo) talking about development costs as the reason for longer lifecycles.

Anyway, you'll soon see how wrong you are.

No I've read the articles talking about the increased development costs (something I new about without having to read about thanks to common sense), but in none of them has it ever been stated that they (Sony and Microsoft) wont launch a new console before the 10 year life span is up.

If Nintendo doesn't make a announcement at E3 this year for a new console, I predict that we will get official announcements from all three at E3 2012 for 2013 release dates. If Nintendo does announce something this year, since their press conference is after Sony's (I'm not sure what day Microsoft's is on this year) I would except a PS4 announcement at Toyko Game show later this year. Not sure when/where Microsoft would announce if there E3 conference is after Nintendos, but they would want to do it State side, they might hold their own conference.

Bardock42
Originally posted by srankmissingnin
No I've read the articles talking about the increased development costs (something I new about without having to read about thanks to common sense), but in none of them has it ever been stated that they (Sony and Microsoft) wont launch a new console before the 10 year life span is up.

If Nintendo doesn't make a announcement at E3 this year for a new console, I predict that we will get official announcements from all three at E3 2012 for 2013 release dates. If Nintendo does announce something this year, since their press conference is after Sony's (I'm not sure what day Microsoft's is on this year) I would except a PS4 announcement at Toyko Game show later this year. Not sure when/where Microsoft would announce if there E3 conference is after Nintendos, but they would want to do it State side, they might hold their own conference.

Bookmarking this to rub it in your face later (or to congratulate you, we'll see)

srankmissingnin
Originally posted by Bardock42
Bookmarking this to rub it in your face later (or to congratulate you, we'll see)

Heheh. If I'm wrong it will be my first step in becoming Michael Pachter's apprentice. cool

S_D_J
Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Heheh. If I'm wrong it will be my first step in becoming Michael Pachter's apprentice. cool

You're on the right track then wink



I was wondering, and pardon me for getting a bit out of topic, but, does anyone know anyone who owns a Kinect? I certainly don't. I know the internet isn't a place to hold a reliable poll, but still

I mean 10m sold... that's like 20% out of all 360 sold no expression

just wondering...

Bro SMASH
New Nintendo console=new Super Smash Bros.?

I really hope so.

Smasandian
Like those games never change!

MadMel
I thought the addition of online play in games like SSBB and mario kart was a big change, IMO. Certainly made it more fun for me to play, and the complete lack of any lag for both games was also nice. XD

If they make a more 'melee' version of brawl, I think people would be on it like hotcakes. erm

Ridley_Prime
SSBB and Mario Kart were devoid of lag? lolwut?

MadMel
I could play both games against anyone anywhere in the world, and not lag.

Wasn't the case with a lot of other Wii games, though. erm

Smasandian
Oh, seriously, adding online is a big change?

Welcome to 1998!

FistOfThe North
"Nintendo plans to announce its Wii successor at the E3 game convention in June"

"In the meantime, the guessing game is well underway in gaming forums.

Will this simply be Wii HD -- a stopgap update of the industry's top selling system that's meant to keep it relevant until Sony and Microsoft roll out their next generation machines? Or would Nintendo actually venture deeper into its 'Blue Ocean' strategy (an attempt to create a market where there initially was none) and start its own launch cycle, one that removes it from the same launch window as its two console competitors?"

http://blog.games.yahoo.com/blog/606-reports-nintendo-to-unveil-new-hd-game-console



"Nintendo is reportedly showing the console to publishers to garner interest for a late 2012 launch."

http://wii.ign.com/articles/116/1161875p1.html




with the end of the first article, i hope this move by nintendo will nudge or spur the 360 and ps3 into coming out with their next gen systems soon after, as well, alas.

MadMel
Originally posted by Smasandian
Oh, seriously, adding online is a big change?

Welcome to 1998!
Your last post referred specifically to 'those games'. That's what I was addressing. erm
Considering, in SSB's case, that the previous two games in the series didn't have online play (with the exception of various hacks/patches), adding it in the newest release counts as a big change.

S_D_J
Some more big rumors... now with photos

http://www.destructoid.com/huge-load-of-wii-successor-project-cafe-rumors-199298.phtml



http://bulk2.destructoid.com/ul/199298-huge-load-of-wii-successor-project-cafe-rumors/cafemock-noscale.jpg





I must say this piqued my interest...



This sounds interesting. Right now there's like nothing to play on Wii (except Conduit 2), not even first party support.

The controllers look nice enough, they sure will be expensive though

Bro SMASH
Might not launch with any 1st party games? Well I hope they at least reveal them.

Better download service? I hope that means they will finally have a hard-drive or something.

Skyward Sword's situation doesn't really surprise me.

Star Fox title? Sounds neat but I hadn't played one of those games since the N64 version.

"Everybody wants" Eternal Darkness 2? I don't recall that. The first came and went too fast for everyone to want to sequel.

In then end, I'm not sure if I'm excited about this or not. I do want to see more about the controller though. Never expected Nintendo would do that but they're full of surprises anyway.

Ushgarak
Yes, the controller is very interesting... the streaming thing in particular.

Good lord, IGN is reporting that production might have started by the end of the year- meaning an EARLY 2012 release, or even earlier, which might tie in with the Skyward Sword predictions. Hard to believe... we'll see.

But they are also reporting an estimated $350 or higher price. Hmm.

Potential name is rumoured as 'Stream'. I can see why they didn't put Wii in the name.

Smasandian
Those controllers look very uncomfortable for some reason.

And the technology in those controllers could easily make the console over $350.

Still don't see a point in a new console. There's a huge chance of not getting good 3rd party support and I don't see hardcore gamers leaving their trusted 360/PS3 for a console made by a company that has a bad track record with good 3rd party support.

And at the price it might come out, no way a casual gamer will buy this.

Ushgarak
That is indeed not a casual price point.

dadudemon
Originally posted by Ushgarak
Microsoft and Sony have stated 10 year plans for their consoles, so Nintendo can easily steal a march.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
The PS3 was released six years into the PS2's life cycle and the PS2 is still on the market now in it's eleventh year... hell it still gets new games from time to time. A 10 year console life span doesn't prohibit Sony form lunching a new console, it just means the PS3 will still be on the market as an alternative until 2016.

Sony and Microsoft wont allow Nintendo to start the nextgen without them.

Originally posted by Ushgarak
No, they specifically said about it lasting ten years before launching a new one- and about how console lifecycles have changed. Microsoft have concurred since Kinect came out.

So... yes, they might have to allow it actually. They don't actually have the R&D budget to just get a new one out on demand like that. Prohibitive development costs were part of their given reasoning.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
I'd love to see a quote where it is specified that the "10 year life span," is referring to the time before the launch of another console and not just the total shelf life.

http://gizmodo.com/#!5794012/microsoft-and-sony-targeting-2014-for-new-consoles-leaving-nintendo-in-the-clear




Nothing definitive but it's not going to happen over night. If they have nothing in the works, currently, it's not going to happen. The very earliest we can see something is 2013, from either Sony or MS. There is no official statement that there will be something in 2014.

Ushgarak
Indeed- they are in no position to get anything out even remotely close. With Nintendo now apparently going for early 2012, srankmissingnin is way off on this one. Nintendo is getting in quite considerably first and the others are not going to do anything about it.

Nephthys
Well according to Extra Credits consoles are going to become obsolete in about a decade anyway.

AsbestosFlaygon
Originally posted by S_D_J

http://www.destructoid.com/huge-load-of-wii-successor-project-cafe-rumors-199298.phtml



http://bulk2.destructoid.com/ul/199298-huge-load-of-wii-successor-project-cafe-rumors/cafemock-noscale.jpg


Looks like this console is going to be expensive, probably cost more than a PS3 or 360.

I'd buy one though, if the graphics are better than either the PS3's or 360's.

Ushgarak
Not more than a PS3 was at launch though. What does a slim cost in the US these days?

Smasandian
$299 in Canada. That's the 160GB version.

Even if the graphics were better, which they HAVE to be doesn't necessarily mean that Nintendo will beat the competition if released early than Sony/MS.

It's all about the games.

S_D_J
Newer photo
http://www.destructoid.com/here-s-the-latest-leaked-project-cafe-image-199406.phtml

http://bulk2.destructoid.com/ul/199406-/cafe-noscale.jpg

Smasandian
I highly doubt that the system will be the same amount of money as current generation consoles.

And doesn't every console maker say that their console is the easiest to develop from?

srankmissingnin
Originally posted by dadudemon
http://gizmodo.com/#!5794012/microsoft-and-sony-targeting-2014-for-new-consoles-leaving-nintendo-in-the-clear




Nothing definitive but it's not going to happen over night. If they have nothing in the works, currently, it's not going to happen. The very earliest we can see something is 2013, from either Sony or MS. There is no official statement that there will be something in 2014.

Originally posted by Ushgarak
Indeed- they are in no position to get anything out even remotely close. With Nintendo now apparently going for early 2012, srankmissingnin is way off on this one. Nintendo is getting in quite considerably first and the others are not going to do anything about it.

Even if Microsoft and Sony strategy matches the statements of an unnamed "industry source," and hold firm to a 2014 lunch window. That puts my predictions off by a year, which is still closer to accurate than the "10 year life cycle before next gen," prediction. Anyway, an unnamed "industry source" is not an official word from Sony or Microsoft, and even if it was, Nintendo officially said in January or February of this very year they had no plans to release a new console in the near future... which obviously was less than truful.

killermover
Are you ****ing serious? I just bought a PS3 last month. I mean cmon, how old am I getting?

Ushgarak
Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Even if Microsoft and Sony strategy matches the statements of an unnamed "industry source," and hold firm to a 2014 lunch window. That puts my predictions off by a year, which is still closer to accurate than the "10 year life cycle before next gen," prediction. Anyway, an unnamed "industry source" is not an official word from Sony or Microsoft, and even if it was, Nintendo officially said in January or February of this very year they had no plans to release a new console in the near future... which obviously was less than truful.

It would be 9 years for 360, and even that is only a rumour, and in any case your central contention that they would not allow Nintendo to release early by bringing up their own releases ASAP is simply looking entirely wrong, along with your contention that they would be ready to do so, development wise (clearly, again, they are not, hence their talk about development times which you rather arrogantly claimed you knew anyway, despite Nintendo obviously disagreeing with it). You only make yourself look sillier trying to fight it like that. You are clearly in error. You've already been made to look pretty foolish by the revelation of an early 2012 target for Nintendo- just go back and read your earlier posts again.

So, back to what I originally said- Nintendo are clearly stealing a march here; they will have an open market for some while before Sony or Microsoft get out anything new. The question is now is if they can make it work at a non-casual price point.

srankmissingnin
Originally posted by Ushgarak
It would be 9 years for 360, and even that is only a rumour, and in any case your central contention that they would not allow Nintendo to release early by bringing up their own releases ASAP is simply looking entirely wrong, along with your contention that they would be ready to do so, development wise (clearly, again, they are not, hence their talk about development times which you rather arrogantly claimed you knew anyway, despite Nintendo obviously disagreeing with it). You only make yourself look sillier trying to fight it like that. You are clearly in error. You've already been made to look pretty foolish by the revelation of an early 2012 target for Nintendo- just go back and read your earlier posts again.

So, back to what I originally said- Nintendo are clearly stealing a march here; they will have an open market for some while before Sony or Microsoft get out anything new. The question is now is if they can make it work at a non-casual price point.

So far the info at hand from "industry insiders" suggests Microsoft and Sony were targeting a 2014 launch window for the next gen. Now that they have an idea what Nintendo plans, who is to say that those plans will remain concrete, (if they were real in the first place?) Moving a head the production schedule a year to steal some of Nintendo's thunder wouldn't be out of the question (something Microsoft probably already did with the 360), and would place things lock step with my time line.

Also, there has been no "revelation" of an early 2012 launch either, just baseless speculation. A late 2012 launch seems to be the consensus on the majority of articles across the various gaming sites / blogs.

Mist_haermm
Didn't they release the Wii in the same year they unveiled it at E3?

Microsoft still have a while to go:
http://www.gameblurb.net/news/microsofts-next-gen-console-coming-2015/

Ushgarak
Well, like I said, srankmissingnin, you are going to see how wrong you are. Nintendo are going to get that lead by releasing in 2012, early or late.

BackFire
Releasing a system earlier than the competition doesn't necessarily equate to success. It can backfire in the long run. Remember the Dreamcast.

That said if it is successful, and honestly it probably will be, at least to a certain extent, it could give Nintendo a dominating market ownership, with the Wii dominating on the "casual gaming" front, and this new one appealing to the "hardcore" crowd with pretty pictures and all that.

Scythe
Originally posted by BackFire
Releasing a system earlier than the competition doesn't necessarily equate to success. It can backfire in the long run. Remember the Dreamcast.

That said if it is successful, and honestly it probably will be, at least to a certain extent, it could give Nintendo a dominating market ownership, with the Wii dominating on the "casual gaming" front, and this new one appealing to the "hardcore" crowd with pretty pictures and all that.

Haha, it's funny cuz it's your username as well. Anyways, I thought the same thing too, made me remember the Dreamcast.

BackFire
If your point is that my username is awesome, I agree.

Ushgarak
I understand Nintendo Japan have now confirmed the console, but '2012' is all they will say for release.

Smasandian
Originally posted by BackFire
Releasing a system earlier than the competition doesn't necessarily equate to success. It can backfire in the long run. Remember the Dreamcast.

That said if it is successful, and honestly it probably will be, at least to a certain extent, it could give Nintendo a dominating market ownership, with the Wii dominating on the "casual gaming" front, and this new one appealing to the "hardcore" crowd with pretty pictures and all that.

Nintendo has to do a lot of ass kissing to the hardcore market to get rid of taint of the Gamecube and the lack of good 3rd party software.

If they don't have CoD, or GTA, no gamer is going to move over.

BackFire
Honestly I think that depends on just how much more powerful the system is than the current group. If the graphics are significantly better than the PS3 and 360, people will buy it just for that. In the long run though, you're right.

Smasandian
That's true but I wonder how smart gamers are?

You have to believe that Sony/MS will come out with a console with better graphics than the new Nintendo console a couple of years later. Knowing this, would gamers just wait for those consoles to appear and seeing that Nintendo's awful 3rd party support has left a bad taste in people's mouth.

I used to buy all Nintendo consoles but unless they floor me with awesome 3rd party support, a controller with a touchscreen isn't going to do it. Just another gimmick.

BackFire
Originally posted by Smasandian
That's true but I wonder how smart gamers are?

You have to believe that Sony/MS will come out with a console with better graphics than the new Nintendo console a couple of years later. Knowing this, would gamers just wait for those consoles to appear and seeing that Nintendo's awful 3rd party support has left a bad taste in people's mouth.

I used to buy all Nintendo consoles but unless they floor me with awesome 3rd party support, a controller with a touchscreen isn't going to do it. Just another gimmick.

Yup, that's why I mentioned the Dreamcast earlier, because Nintendo can find themselves in the awkward spot of dominating in tech for two years, then suddenly find themselves way behind in that same area, which is what happened with the DC. Granted a two year tech gap isn't as significant as it was back then, as tech progress has slowed down pretty heavily, but still could matter.

dadudemon
Originally posted by Ushgarak
...and in any case your central contention that they would not allow Nintendo to release early by bringing up their own releases ASAP is simply looking entirely wrong, along with your contention that they would be ready to do so, development wise (clearly, again, they are not, hence their talk about development times...). You only make yourself look sillier trying to fight it like that. You are clearly in error. You've already been made to look pretty foolish by the revelation of an early 2012 target for Nintendo- just go back and read your earlier posts again.


This.

The console announcement and "specs' offerings for game developers MUST happen in order for the developers to develop a game that fits the hardware API of the new system.

In other words, Nintendo MUST have a definitive system (hardware specs) and API so that a SDK can be given or at least developers have an idea on what to build for.

What does all of that mean? Console manufacturers must project out significantly greater than a year-out for the developers. In order to claim that only a year or year and a half is away for the MS console or the Sony console, they must also release an SDK and/or hardware specs in order to even traverse the API to have working software on the system.

There is literally no precedence to back up the claim that any console manufacturer is going to have a console go from unannounced to market in less than 18 months (that's being generous.) IMO, Nintendo announcing a release date for second quarter 2012 is STILL pushing it. They had better have a good reason for shafting third parties so thoroughly. Oh, wait, they do: Nintendo is the #1 first party software developer in video games (by sales.) lol



Jargon:

SDK - Sofware Development Kit. Not necessary to develop software but it is almost a must in for console manufacturers to provide.

API - Application programming interface. You literally cannot write a program without API. Even if they use a programming language that is very common (Java), they still have to provide API that is specific to their console...otherwise, there is LOTS of guesswork involved and it will have to be modified (which takes time and testing) to get it to work.

Hardware Specs - This one is more obvious than the other two but I feel it needs clarification. In order to program something that both looks good AND does not have frame-rate lag, you must know the hardware specs and the technologies they are capable of (for instance, there are some rendering technologies that are available in the PS3 that are not in the 360. Some software companies make use of those differences, some do not.)


Anyway, srankmissingnin, I hope that clears up the "why" for release dates. Unless MS or Sony make an announcement of a soon-to-be released SDK and API for their nexgen consoles, there's no way they can be in the same range as Nintendo. Again, Nintendo can pull off a one-year release date because they have such a massive first-party development team to keep things "under-wraps." My thoughts on that:

Nintendo is doing that because they do not have to worry about nexgen console competition. They can release a new console with little software install base and let the market fill in their library for 2 years with little competition in their market. (Seems odd that I would give a separate market, doesn't? That's just how it works. The sales will not, initially, eat into the other systems and software sales .It will be it's own market. Observe the 360s life when it had the market to itself.)

S_D_J
just in case you haven't seen them

http://img195.imageshack.us/img195/9259/wii2q.jpg

http://www.escuadronpikmin.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/wii2b29.jpg

Mist_haermm
Originally posted by dadudemon

IMO, Nintendo announcing a release date for second quarter 2012 is STILL pushing it.

Not really...they aren't just unveiling it at E3, they're giving playable build demos too, so all they'll be waiting for is devs to finish up the launch titles.

I just hope they don't do a 3DS and release shit games on launch and make everyone wait a few months for decent games to come out...they sure messed that one up.

dadudemon
Originally posted by Mist_haermm
Not really...they aren't just unveiling it at E3, they're giving playable build demos too, so all they'll be waiting for is devs to finish up the launch titles.

It's definitely pushing it for 3rd parties which was the point I made.

Mist_haermm
How do you even know 3rd parties are being shafted?

General Kaliero
Because standard development time is at least 18 months these days, and on average far longer. If they're only just getting SDKs out to 3rd parties now, that's not much time at all to put a game together. And when that happens, developers tend to panic and either do sloppy/short proof-of-concept demos or quick conversions of existing games. And when that happens 3rd party games are panned at release, attaching a stigma to the console so that, yet again for Nintendo, the console has little 3rd party support.

A worst case scenario of course, but still. Such a short development window isn't a good idea.

Mist_haermm
Yes but that's assuming they're only just releasing the SDKs now. Everyone who has a SDK has NDAs in place, they won't be announcing anything until E3 at the earliest, and if Nintendo are giving playable build demos at E3, then it's fair to say they've been in development for a while. I doubt Nintendo will be leading the launch since they're busy pimping the 3DS and still releasing Wii games in that time.

If the specs are above the current gen systems, then there's no reason why current engines like Unreal shouldn't work on it, so all Nintendo had to do was say 'it supports Unreal' 2 years ago and you'll have a bunch of 3rd party games in development without even needing an SDK until now. It's completely different to when the Wii was coming out, since dev's would have had to have a SDK to work on the motion controls.


Anyway, all speculation til it launches I guess.

General Kaliero
Actually, Nintendo's been pretty lax on providing 3DS games themselves. Perhaps that's because they've been focusing on developing the E3 demos for their new console?

And frankly, even with NDAs small tidbits of info get out. If any company had been working on a game for a brand new console from Nintendo, there would have been some sort of rumor by now.

AsbestosFlaygon
Originally posted by BackFire
Releasing a system earlier than the competition doesn't necessarily equate to success. It can backfire in the long run. Remember the Dreamcast.

That said if it is successful, and honestly it probably will be, at least to a certain extent, it could give Nintendo a dominating market ownership, with the Wii dominating on the "casual gaming" front, and this new one appealing to the "hardcore" crowd with pretty pictures and all that.
I don't see it dominating the "hardcore" market IF the graphics of this console would be the same or below par to the PS3's or 360's UNLESS they can introduce something innovative and/or provide better online services.

Mist_haermm
Looking forward to E3 while being a bit skeptical, it'll be neat to see what they have planned, but I don't want them to make stupid announcements like 'oh we're upscaling Skyward Sword for a launch title'.

Ushgarak
Well, the sources providing information have so far been reliable, and these same sources said that the major companies have had SDKs for months.

BackFire
Originally posted by AsbestosFlaygon
I don't see it dominating the "hardcore" market IF the graphics of this console would be the same or below par to the PS3's or 360's UNLESS they can introduce something innovative and/or provide better online services.

It's supposed to be significantly more powerful than the 360 and the PS3.

Ushgarak
Is there any info about what kind of media it is reading? Will they stick with DVD equivalents?

dadudemon
Originally posted by Mist_haermm
How do you even know 3rd parties are being shafted?

Because of this (I also made this point in my post).

Originally posted by General Kaliero
Because standard development time is at least 18 months these days, and on average far longer. If they're only just getting SDKs out to 3rd parties now, that's not much time at all to put a game together. And when that happens, developers tend to panic and either do sloppy/short proof-of-concept demos or quick conversions of existing games. And when that happens 3rd party games are panned at release, attaching a stigma to the console so that, yet again for Nintendo, the console has little 3rd party support.

A worst case scenario of course, but still. Such a short development window isn't a good idea.



It's like Nintendo really doesn't give a flying fudge because the know their titles will sell like mad. I can't blame them. I said it earlier, but I think Nintendo knows that they'll have their market for about 2 years so they don't really care, at this point.


Originally posted by Mist_haermm
Yes but that's assuming they're only just releasing the SDKs now. Everyone who has a SDK has NDAs in place, they won't be announcing anything until E3 at the earliest, and if Nintendo are giving playable build demos at E3, then it's fair to say they've been in development for a while. I doubt Nintendo will be leading the launch since they're busy pimping the 3DS and still releasing Wii games in that time.


They just released the press release about he console (that's supposed to get investors and third parties excited). They haven't even released their SDK OR their hardware specs. In other words, there will be LESS than a year for third parties to develop for this. There's no speculation, there: Nintendo is clearly shafting third parties in the initial launch.

Originally posted by Mist_haermm
If the specs are above the current gen systems, then there's no reason why current engines like Unreal shouldn't work on it, so all Nintendo had to do was say 'it supports Unreal' 2 years ago and you'll have a bunch of 3rd party games in development without even needing an SDK until now. It's completely different to when the Wii was coming out, since dev's would have had to have a SDK to work on the motion controls.

Sort of... If the hardware operates in a new or different way (which it will), there's still making the game to fit the new technology which can cause a software development backlog that greatly impacts the launch date by, sometimes, much greater than 6 months. That would push their software release waaaaaay out there past launch.


Worst case scenario, it will allow for backwards compatibility and they can program for that (Wii), throw in the 'new' hardware features after they find out what those are, as just an afterthought, and release the game at launch.......kind of like what developers did with the Wii. laughing


Originally posted by Mist_haermm
Anyway, all speculation til it launches I guess.

Again, sort of. There are some clear facts that can be derived. Third parties will have less than a year to develop something if they want it at launch. Nintendo has anywhere from a year to 2 years of a "free market" on the nexgen console wars, Nintendo just released their press release but not SDK and hardware specs inferring that they would rather hit the market with a large first party install base, and Nintendo is wanting to keep things under wraps until E3.





Edit - I just read Ushgarak's post about SDKs. This is news to me. Third parties have had SDKs for months? Maybe Nintendo isn't trying to shaft third parties as much as I thought.

Smasandian
I don't think Nintendo has ever shafted outside developers.

I thought it was just a case that Sony/MS offered more to make games on those console.

In my opinion, Nintendo shafted gamers with bad decisions in the past.

srankmissingnin
Originally posted by dadudemon
This.

The console announcement and "specs' offerings for game developers MUST happen in order for the developers to develop a game that fits the hardware API of the new system.

In other words, Nintendo MUST have a definitive system (hardware specs) and API so that a SDK can be given or at least developers have an idea on what to build for.

What does all of that mean? Console manufacturers must project out significantly greater than a year-out for the developers. In order to claim that only a year or year and a half is away for the MS console or the Sony console, they must also release an SDK and/or hardware specs in order to even traverse the API to have working software on the system.

There is literally no precedence to back up the claim that any console manufacturer is going to have a console go from unannounced to market in less than 18 months (that's being generous.) IMO, Nintendo announcing a release date for second quarter 2012 is STILL pushing it. They had better have a good reason for shafting third parties so thoroughly. Oh, wait, they do: Nintendo is the #1 first party software developer in video games (by sales.) lol



Jargon:

SDK - Sofware Development Kit. Not necessary to develop software but it is almost a must in for console manufacturers to provide.

API - Application programming interface. You literally cannot write a program without API. Even if they use a programming language that is very common (Java), they still have to provide API that is specific to their console...otherwise, there is LOTS of guesswork involved and it will have to be modified (which takes time and testing) to get it to work.

Hardware Specs - This one is more obvious than the other two but I feel it needs clarification. In order to program something that both looks good AND does not have frame-rate lag, you must know the hardware specs and the technologies they are capable of (for instance, there are some rendering technologies that are available in the PS3 that are not in the 360. Some software companies make use of those differences, some do not.)


Anyway, srankmissingnin, I hope that clears up the "why" for release dates. Unless MS or Sony make an announcement of a soon-to-be released SDK and API for their nexgen consoles, there's no way they can be in the same range as Nintendo. Again, Nintendo can pull off a one-year release date because they have such a massive first-party development team to keep things "under-wraps." My thoughts on that:

Nintendo is doing that because they do not have to worry about nexgen console competition. They can release a new console with little software install base and let the market fill in their library for 2 years with little competition in their market. (Seems odd that I would give a separate market, doesn't? That's just how it works. The sales will not, initially, eat into the other systems and software sales .It will be it's own market. Observe the 360s life when it had the market to itself.)

My prediction was that if Nintendo released a new console, Sony and Microsoft would respond and have something on the shelves within a year of it. Nintendo's console is at least a year away, and a mid - late 2012 (possibly even early 2013 in some regions) Nintendo release as the earliest possible window would give Sony and Microsoft a 2013-2014 launch window for their return fire. That is more than two years from now, more than enough time to get development kits to the third party studios and have some crappy third party launch games ready, especially if the architecture is similar to current consoles.

Nintendo is officially going to announce a new console this year at E3, that is certain. I expect Sony and Microsoft will throw up a PS4/XBOX720 logo to steal some thunder, and make announce officially announcement no later than E3 2012.

What I wanted know is what Microsoft's plans are. They've said no Blueray, and with ISP's trying to cap bandwidth to absurdly low levels surely digital distribution isn't an option for dl'ing next gen games? DVDs again?

dadudemon
Originally posted by srankmissingnin
My prediction was that if Nintendo released a new console, Sony and Microsoft would respond and have something on the shelves within a year of it. Nintendo's console is at least a year away, and a mid - late 2012 (possibly even early 2013 in some regions) Nintendo release as the earliest possible window would give Sony and Microsoft a 2013-2014 launch window for their return fire. That is more than two years from now, more than enough time to get development kits to the third party studios and have some crappy third party launch games ready, especially if the architecture is similar to current consoles.

Nintendo is officially going to announce a new console this year at E3, that is certain. I expect Sony and Microsoft will throw up a PS4/XBOX720 logo to steal some thunder, and make announce officially announcement no later than E3 2012.

What I wanted know is what Microsoft's plans are. They've said no Blueray, and with ISP's trying to cap bandwidth to absurdly low levels surely digital distribution isn't an option for dl'ing next gen games? DVDs again?

That all sound reasonable and fair.


MS could easily go the way of a Steam system. That would really cut into piracy, too. It's the way it should be going, anyway.

Peach
Originally posted by srankmissingnin
My prediction was that if Nintendo released a new console, Sony and Microsoft would respond and have something on the shelves within a year of it. Nintendo's console is at least a year away, and a mid - late 2012 (possibly even early 2013 in some regions) Nintendo release as the earliest possible window would give Sony and Microsoft a 2013-2014 launch window for their return fire. That is more than two years from now, more than enough time to get development kits to the third party studios and have some crappy third party launch games ready, especially if the architecture is similar to current consoles.

Nintendo is officially going to announce a new console this year at E3, that is certain. I expect Sony and Microsoft will throw up a PS4/XBOX720 logo to steal some thunder, and make announce officially announcement no later than E3 2012.

What I wanted know is what Microsoft's plans are. They've said no Blueray, and with ISP's trying to cap bandwidth to absurdly low levels surely digital distribution isn't an option for dl'ing next gen games? DVDs again?

Except for the fact that unless Sony and Microsoft have a new console that they're working on now and have a significant amount of work done on, they won't have anything to push up to be ready within a year of Nintendo's release. It's not like a game where things can be time-crunched fairly easily; console development is a whole different thing there.

And yes, they'll probably stick with DVDs unless they go with a download-based distribution for games (which I hope they don't). People seem to forget how great compression technology can be when utilized properly.

Mist_haermm
Originally posted by dadudemon
Nintendo just released their press release but not SDK and hardware specs inferring that they would rather hit the market with a large first party install base, and Nintendo is wanting to keep things under wraps until E3.



Edit - I just read Ushgarak's post about SDKs. This is news to me. Third parties have had SDKs for months? Maybe Nintendo isn't trying to shaft third parties as much as I thought.


Originally posted by Ushgarak
Well, the sources providing information have so far been reliable, and these same sources said that the major companies have had SDKs for months.

See, that's what I'm saying...press release doesn't mean anything in terms of SDK releases.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin

What I wanted know is what Microsoft's plans are. They've said no Blueray

MS should just suck it up and use blu ray already...
actually weren't next gen aiming for cloud gaming, or was that a completely different system?

Bro SMASH
Rumors have been updated...sort of:



http://gameolosophy.com/consoles/rumor-rareware-on-3ds-future-of-metroid/

Mist_haermm

General Kaliero
Exactly what I said could happen... sigh.

Letting the Metroid series "cool" could have repercussions simply by leaving it at Other M. On the other hand, let's get some brand new, all-flying Star Fox, Nintendo!

srankmissingnin
Originally posted by Peach
Except for the fact that unless Sony and Microsoft have a new console that they're working on now and have a significant amount of work done on, they won't have anything to push up to be ready within a year of Nintendo's release. It's not like a game where things can be time-crunched fairly easily; console development is a whole different thing there.

And yes, they'll probably stick with DVDs unless they go with a download-based distribution for games (which I hope they don't). People seem to forget how great compression technology can be when utilized properly.

What do you think Sony and Microsoft have been doing for the last five - six years? Standing around twiddling their thumbs? They almost certainly started R&D for their next consoles the moment the 360 and PS3 launched, if not earlier.

S_D_J
Originally posted by Mist_haermm
See, that's what I'm saying...press release doesn't mean anything in terms of SDK releases.



MS should just suck it up and use blu ray already...
actually weren't next gen aiming for cloud gaming, or was that a completely different system?

I too hope they just go for BR already (both M$ and Nintendo)

while compression still works and not all game need it, some game actually benefit from the format, and they don't have to compress just about everything (especially those with cutscene as they get artifacts all over the place because of it)

... but wasn't M$ working in a new format? I heard they were gonna start a Beta program soon...

General Kaliero
Originally posted by srankmissingnin
What do you think Sony and Microsoft have been doing for the last five - six years? Standing around twiddling their thumbs? They almost certainly started R&D for their next consoles the moment the 360 and PS3 launched, if not earlier.
Maintaining their online networks, testing and fixing broken units, working with developers and Quality Assurance to design and implement progressive firmware updates, designing and manufacturing new iterations of the current consoles for new price points, marketing their consoles, developing Kinect and Move, marketing Kinect and Move, developing and implementing firmware updates for Kinect and Move... that's probably most of what they've been doing for five - six years.

srankmissingnin
Originally posted by General Kaliero
Maintaining their online networks, testing and fixing broken units, working with developers and Quality Assurance to design and implement progressive firmware updates, designing and manufacturing new iterations of the current consoles for new price points, marketing their consoles, developing Kinect and Move, marketing Kinect and Move, developing and implementing firmware updates for Kinect and Move... that's probably most of what they've been doing for five - six years.

Marketing, product testing, IT, PR and R&D are all completely separate entities with in a corporation. Sony had already started development on the PS3 before the official lunch of the PS2 and it's not like the laid off their R&D department when the PS3 was lunched or Move development was keeping the whole department busy for five years.

General Kaliero
Do you have a source for Sony starting development on the PS3 before 2000?

Who do you think develops all those firmware upgrades? Why, R&D of course. How do they know what their goals are? Working with the network coordinators and public relations to determine the problems that need fixing. The network jobs are obviously constant, since you never know when a bug will pop up or what will cause it. And public relations need to be gathering information to feed to development so they know when something needs fixing and what it is. These teams don't have just one job, and the work on a console doesn't end at launch. After launch the jobs for everyone in the console division of the company shift from creation to refinement and maintenance.

srankmissingnin
Originally posted by General Kaliero
Do you have a source for Sony starting development on the PS3 before 2000?

Who do you think develops all those firmware upgrades? Why, R&D of course. How do they know what their goals are? Working with the network coordinators and public relations to determine the problems that need fixing. These teams don't have just one job, and the work on a console doesn't end at launch. After launch the jobs for everyone in the console division of the company shift from creation to refinement and maintenance.

It's been a long time but it was said back when there was all that hubbub about IMB showing Microsoft the specs for the PS3s Cell in like 2002.

Surely some sort of IT department works on firmware upgrades? R&D is like a hands on think tank, it's their job to research and develop new technology and brain storm new ideas. I'm pretty sure Dr. Richard Marks (SCEAs head of R&D) said that R&D doesn't even end up working on the final stages of a products (let alone something already on the market). What they do is mess around with new tech and create mock ups, they aren't patching firmware.

Ushgarak
Nintendo speaks up about the third party issue.

http://uk.wii.ign.com/articles/116/1165674p1.html

S_D_J
Rumor: Project Cafe has 8GB of on-board flash memory




No HDD... they serious? no expression

Bardock42
Originally posted by S_D_J
Rumor: Project Cafe has 8GB of on-board flash memory




No HDD... they serious? no expression

Seems alright.

Ushgarak
Yes, if they have a high capacity optical with decent load times, then why bother with the HD?

S_D_J
Why bother?

This console is supposed to cater the hardcore crowd, No HDD is a big NO NO to that same audience.

The business model is skewering towards digital distribution (as much as I hate it, I prefer physical stuff I can share with friends. Not trade, mind you), and that's just releases, then there are arcade-like games, DLC's, demos and not to mention videos and music (to me those 2 are irrelevant)

As anyone who owns/owned a 20gig 360 could attest, is aggravating having to clean the fridge when you want some new dlc and there's no room

AsbestosFlaygon
Originally posted by S_D_J
Rumor: Project Cafe has 8GB of on-board flash memory




No HDD... they serious? no expression
Methinks its a strategy to prevent piracy.

S_D_J
Originally posted by AsbestosFlaygon
Methinks its a strategy to prevent piracy.

Me thinks is a strategy to stay in 2006

Smasandian
Having no HDD doesn't prevent privacy.

Having only an 8 GB Flash memory is a very bad decision if that's the case. SDJ is correct, if they want this to cater the hardcore crowd, they need to have a bigger HD box.

Also, think about how 3rd party developers would feel? Most of them are on the DLC bandwagon now and having a console that won't cater to DLC is probably not going to work for them.

Considering how cheap HDD space is these days, not having at least 20 GB's is dumb.

In my opinion, for these console to make money and challenge Sony/MS, they need two things. Hardcore games and amazing online play. Not having a big HDD will seriously hurt this.

Ushgarak
I'm not actually convinced they need a huge DLC capacity to win a large market.

I'm DEFINITELY not convinced that the margin is larger than the sales they would gain in this making it cheaper.

Still, let's see how it turns out. Only a rumour so far.

Smasandian
I think DLC is a bigger deal than you think. It's a dumb decision by Nintendo if the rumours are true.

If Nintendo does what Nintendo always does, then this console will be last.

Peach
I highly doubt that.

dadudemon
That's absolutely true. I didn't even consider that.



To paraphrase, it's a trade-off between reducing cost and increasing utility.

I think the 'gamble' towards a lower-cost has been proven in the market, already, with the current gen consoles. They can always do what Nintendo and Apple are best known for: selling tons of "additionals." Who's to say external storage is not possible? What about cloud storage with a subscription? AHA!

Smasandian
Originally posted by dadudemon
That's absolutely true. I didn't even consider that.



To paraphrase, it's a trade-off between reducing cost and increasing utility.

I think the 'gamble' towards a lower-cost has been proven in the market, already, with the current gen consoles. They can always do what Nintendo and Apple are best known for: selling tons of "additionals." Who's to say external storage is not possible? What about cloud storage with a subscription? AHA!

Nintendo can't even get online play right, let alone have anything to do with cloud storage.

This is funny. Everybody assumes this console will do well because the Wii sold like crazy but everybody forgets that Sony is in the same position right now. Who would of thought that the PS3 would be trailing the Wii and 360 after the PS2 did so extremely well?

It probably will do well but Nintendo cannot do what they always do and that is too expect consumers will buy their consoles on the strength of their first party titles.

Ushgarak
No-one is assuming anything.

And everyone would agree that Nintendo needs to up their game online- likewise their front end interface.

Smasandian
Definitely.

S_D_J
oh, the rumor mill

Report: EA Developing For Microsoft's Next Xbox
Will the successor to the 360 be on display at E3 2011?



roll eyes (sarcastic)



EDIT: And...

Rumor: Project Cafe to be Nintendo FEEL

Mist_haermm

S_D_J
The initial story sounded better

stick out tongue

Mist_haermm
Nah, they shouldn't rush production to catch up. I hope they just go balls out though, 360 has 512mb ram and a 500mhz GPU, beef those suckers up link-rape

S_D_J
Originally posted by Mist_haermm
Nah, they shouldn't rush production to catch up...

you mean like they did with the 360?

they should totally do it, next gen RRoD!

Ridley_Prime
Or, they should just continue making RRoD impossible to get by design, a la 360 Slim.

S_D_J
Originally posted by Ridley_Prime
Or, they should just continue making RRoD impossible to get by design, a la 360 Slim.

laughing

S_D_J
Sony's Next Console in Development
"Development work is underway," company says.



131

Nephthys
Hah!

Peach
http://mynintendonews.com/2011/05/30/nintendo-wii-2-leaked-specifications-list-for-the-nintendo-wii-2-project-cafe/

May or may not be real, obviously.

S_D_J
Originally posted by Peach
http://mynintendonews.com/2011/05/30/nintendo-wii-2-leaked-specifications-list-for-the-nintendo-wii-2-project-cafe/

May or may not be real, obviously.

I don't understand all that gibberish about graphical specs, but a 2.5" HDD and Bluray sounds about right thumb up

Smasandian
Don't know if it would be fake or not but I'll be surprised if Nintendo has a Blu Ray player that allows them to play GC and Wii discs.

Barker
Just feel like saying how the touchscreen controller is going to blow my mind.

RE: Blaxican
Those specs don't seem to be all that... impressive.

Peach
Actually, they're very impressive.

http://playstation.about.com/od/ps3/a/PS3SpecsDetails_3.htm
http://www.consoledatabase.com/consoleinfo/microsoftxbox360/

The leaked specs sheet for Project Cafe lists a ridiculous amount of RAM for a console. Compared to a computer, it seems unimpressive, but for a console that's a lot.

Smasandian
It's an extra 256 MB of RAM. Not that ridiculous.

What's the most important aspect of those graphical sheets is the power of the CPU and GPU. Unless one of us works at AMD, or IBM, we don't know what those are capable of.

As for the GPU RAM, well, 1 GB seems a bit overkill. Hell, even in todays PC games, you don't need 1 GB unless you want to do extreme resolution games.

Because of the RAM factor, it seems more fake to me.

EDIT: The more I think about it, the Cafe sheet is basically double what the other two systems have.

RE: Blaxican
Originally posted by Peach
Actually, they're very impressive.

http://playstation.about.com/od/ps3/a/PS3SpecsDetails_3.htm
http://www.consoledatabase.com/consoleinfo/microsoftxbox360/

The leaked specs sheet for Project Cafe lists a ridiculous amount of RAM for a console. Compared to a computer, it seems unimpressive, but for a console that's a lot. I think that's what it is. Should we really go down the road of making a "for consoles" distinction though?

Peach
Originally posted by RE: Blaxican
I think that's what it is. Should we really go down the road of making a "for consoles" distinction though?

Well, consoles run differently from computers. I thought that the RAM listed was low, until I remembered that most of the memory on a computer is used for the operating system. The games themselves actually require far less, especially when they're optimized for that system.

S_D_J
Wii U


WTF?


terrible name... oh well, I'm still getting it erm

Ushgarak
Good lord, the controller is huge!

http://uk.wii.ign.com/articles/117/1173521p1.html

S_D_J
ARkham City on Wii2!!! (I ain't calling it wiiu just yet)
Assassins Creed
Battlefield 3

hell yeah! big grin

batdude123
eniBUtc4Uws

This shit looks incredible.

Peach
http://kotaku.com/5809482/

Half the time they were talking about it I kept going "...so is it just a controller or a new console?" because the images you could see in the background it just looked like a regular Wii.

That controller is massive, though. How much is that going to cost?

Ushgarak
Yeah, a set of four might be a huge expense!

Still- Nintendo's hitting pretty big here. So far this is grabbing everyone's attention- everything except the name is getting everyone going 'whoa!'. The name is more "...what?"

Mist_haermm
I wonder what battery life would be on that control hmm

S_D_J
The name is... just retarded

and people complained about PS Vita


but the games!!! it's all about the games, and this looks sweet

srankmissingnin
My mom watched the Nintendo conference with me, she turned to me about halfway through and asked me if "is this is for retards." She was heavily medicated because she just had an operation but her assessment was still pretty apt, Wii U looks horrible.

ares834
Looks pretty cool but spendy...

S_D_J
at least the console looks like a Wii... I didn't like the first pictures of the device, it was too similar to a 360

Bardock42
They were incredibly vague. And focused only on the controller. It's actually going to be an updated console, right? I mean that one guy mentioned HD in passing, while that other guy muttered that it's a "console" under his breath.

no expression

Anyways, I like the idea. Not sure if it actually works as intended ultimately.

Smasandian
I don't know.

It looks like a huge gimmick to me. I don't know if people are willing to spend more money on a console to plays games they can get on consoles they already own.

I think it looks pretty damn stupid.

Bardock42
I did laugh when he was like "People finally thought the name was great when they noticed that 'Wii' means 'We'" ... no ... you named your console after piss...and now you are expanding on this ridiculousness...

srankmissingnin
0JElywbkSbY

Wii U Wii U Wii U

General Kaliero
My thoughts exactly.

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