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Okay....I've been reading around different forums concerning Hayato's power. The guy is a friggin beat and all but when you compare him to OP tier things get a little iffy.(I'm skeptical of the Narutoforums BTW)

So in order to better understand exactly how much of a beat HSDK's strongest character is, he'll fight the strawhats in 3 scenarios

1. Hayato fights each of them individually(pre-skip)
2. Hayato fights each of them as a whole(pre-skip)
3. Hayato fights them as a whole(current)

I'll trust your judgment if you say Hayato wins but I really find that hard to believe even for him.

He's casually(?) faster then current Luffy who's the fastest of the crew. Gear second Luffy may be the only one to keep up so thats not so good for the team. Small chance of him being touched by anyone.

Hayato hasn't shown any strength of durability to come close to to OP but he does have something; Besides himself, the strongest in his verse are around East Blue Zoro and Sanji's level. Hayato is stated to still be the most powerful and skillful one in the verse when blindfolded and using only 0.0002% of his power.

If that matches up then by powerscaling he'd be on par with/stronger then the Strawhats, giving him the win.

Due to the -maybe yes, maybe no- of his strength:
1. Hayato, easy.
2. Hayato.
3. Hayato but after a struggle.

I agree with it mostly except Luffy....how does he hurt Luffy?

Currently, if any of them could survive being Hayato's victims for at least a minute couldn't Robin just sprout some ligaments to break his back or something.

I'm overall asking how he wins rather than will he win with this whole thread(I still don't understand).

Luffy knocks him out with one lazy punch before he can react.

Hearsay means nothing at all compared to actual feats.

Hayato at 0.0002% of his power being the strongest man in the world is disproven by the simple fact that Silcardo Jenazad gave him trouble in a fight, and Hayato's son, Saiga, is implied to actually be stronger than Silcardo. Shit, Apachai gave the Elder a little trouble.

East Blue Luffy's feats alone outstrip the feats of ANYONE else in Kenichi, the Elder included. Shit, by feats Luffy has been, in fact, faster than masters in Kenichi since like, chapter 6 or so. Outrstripping bullets instantly from over a hundred meters away to save Zoro and Coby.

So yeah. Hayato goes down hard.

Apparently Hayato can move at Mach 30 and rip apart high grade steel

I try to steer clear from the Power-scaling because its kind of unecessary when feats speak for themselves.

Everyone except Luffy(maybe Zoro too) is probably a victim though.

Originally posted by wakkawakkawakka
Apparently Hayato can move at Mach 30 and rip apart high grade steel

I try to steer clear from the Power-scaling because its kind of unecessary when feats speak for themselves.

Everyone except Luffy(maybe Zoro too) is probably a victim though. The high-grade steel is something Zora was doing since Alabasta. As for Mach 30, source? If I had to guess, I would assume that feat would be the one from the D&D arc, correct?

I admit I forgot about that feat, but regardless, he cannot harm Luffy at all, and Luffy by feats has been physically stronger than every character in Kenichi since he tossed the friggin' seacow.

And now he can effortlessly dodge Pacifista Lasers and smash them with a single attack. Zoro and Sanji can as well.

Admittedly we have not see exactly how much the others have grown at the moment, but Robin can probably snap the "Invincible Superman" in half as well, since she can now created "hands" rivaling the size of the Thousand Sunny itself.

Actually, the Elder cannot really harm Franky either. The guy even before the timeskip took a nuke-like explosion with only his skin being singed off. And Franky, though kinda slow, does have the firepower to take out the Elder. Well, probably, granted the Elder does not really have any durability feats beyond taking attacks from people much weaker than the Strawhats, so it is hard to say.

So yeah, Luffy, Zoro, Sanji, Robin, and possibly Franky can crush him, but I am unwilling to really say on the matter of the weaker crewmates at the moment.

Granted I am mostly talking about after the timeskip, since I am too lazy to try to remember older feats.

If that percent of power doesnt make him the strongest it still makes his limited self stronger then the guy who stated it.

If at 0.0002% he's above superhuman characters, 100% could be at OP levels.

Ok maybe not Luffy but the rest he should be able to take down.

Edit: Read your post again. Was it said that he was using more power then that limit?

Here it is the thread that inspired this one:
http://www.narutoforums.com/archive/index.php/t-637392.html

To be honest I don't know how Hayato can block attacks from Sanji or Zoro plus Robin could just break his back or neck via limb-sprouting.

He could still blitz all of them except Luffy though. Luffy should be just as fast maybe slightly slower in Gear 2nd in comparison to Hayato.

I still think the powerscaling thing is irrelevant. restricted and full-powered are more general terms I like to use.

Actually Gear Second Luffy should be faster. It apparently makes him 2 or 3x faster and he's already above Mach 15 post skip.

Originally posted by BloodRain
If that percent of power doesnt make him the strongest it still makes his limited self stronger then the guy who stated it.

If at 0.0002% he's above superhuman characters, 100% could be at OP levels.

Ok maybe not Luffy but the rest he should be able to take down.

Edit: Read your post again. Was it said that he was using more power then that limit? Or it is hyperbole. Because it honestly sounds like bullshit.

Apachai gave him trouble, and he was not implied to be holding back. Does Akisame just really, really suck compared to Apachai?

What makes you think that? Since other than Hayato, Luffy could have beaten any other Master Class character since East Blue, probably.

Silcardo? "Well I am fighting an obviously evil person who kills children. I am going to hold back tremendously while fighting him with my granddaughter right here."

Plus, you know, the Master Class fighter that Hayato fought during the D&D arc? He did not use that small percent of his power to fight him either.

Does he go all-out against other Master Class fighters? Maybe not, but Silcardo was presented to be so dangerous because he did in fact give Hayato trouble in a fight.

Pre-skip Luffy might be slower than Hayato, still unsure how Gear 2nd factors in, but current Luffy should have closed that gap successfully

I can honestly see some of the Stawhats losing to Hayato individually( via blitz) : this is all pre-skip BTW. Shigure can cut steel with a wooden rice spoon and Hayato>>>>Shigure in the strenght/skill/everything department, so Zoro or Sanji's stregnth is a tad harder to factor in this.

Hayato can also toss around tanks, run on water, and knock out multiple targets at once with the Ryuzan Blast. I don't mean to insult anyone but I need a really good argument to be convinced that Hayato could beat either Luffy or Zoro(I can somewhat see Sanji losing).

The powerscaling argument is BS though....you guys should check out the "narutoforum" threads featuring HSDK vs OP characters, they're sure to make you laugh.

Are you guys retarded?? I swear that the masters themselves said that the 0.0002% combo was just a name that the elder had thought of. If he were holding back that much the manga would be shit, he's already unbelievebaly strong and if he were stronger I doubt the earth could handle the stress.
Hands down pre-skip Luffy wins, in speed and power. The elder struggled when he picked up that tank. Luffy pushed freakin' buildings apart when he was trapped, so that he could escape the aqua laguana.
Also, when he fought Crocodile, his gomu gomu no stormu broke through a layer of pured bedrock and toppled buiildings. No doubt.. Luffy + gears, or Luffy + gears + haki would obliterate HSD characters. Oh, and I was a hardcore HSD fan before I got into the One Piece manga.

this is a hard one. In terms of power Luffy may have a slight advantage, but in term of skills and ability Hyato definitely has the edge. So he wins by a small margin. Think about it luffy has power and speed and is rubber, but using a combination of judo, to deflect luffy's attack and redirect it, and pressure points to attack every hit luffy does disable luffy himself. Hyato doesn't know pressure points, BS he does as the most powerful man he knows all technique, about him having problem beating some foes, could it be that he practice saving fist and was holding back? haki vs chi, it the same thing different name. Hyato wins through pure skill and ability alone as oppose to power and speed.

No, in terms of power Luffy has an utterly enormous advantage.

Even with enormous power that where judo comes in. It sole purpose is to deflect and redirect power allowing smaller weaker people to defeat larger stronger opponent.

It doesn't matter if you drop a 1000lb rock from a building with me under it. If I just step out of the way the rock isn't going to do much.
Luffy's bullets can't hit hyato it to unidirectional that even if it's fast he knows which direction it coming from. he can then deflect it and hit luffy with his own fist.