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Who wins?

Bill.

Delta Ray Dave

Could go either way.

This is gonna get get ugly but im going with BRB!

BRB 6/10.

Bill

Toss up.

Beta Ray Bill is strong, i think wonder woman is abit more skilled in combat.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Bill.

Boxy

Probably WW. Bill just isn't dishing out the kind of punishment and speed needed to over come her. He's not Superman. Not even close.

Ok I thought about it some more.

Bill get will get some wins out of ten. But not more than 4.

Hmm edge to Bill

Going with horseface here.

BRB

Bill with a solid majority. She's a top tier but can rarely ever beat someone with this much power at his disposal.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Bill with a solid majority. She's a top tier but can rarely ever beat someone with this much power at his disposal. She beat Genocide, Primaid, Ares, Diamos, Kid Amazo, Queen of Fables,Etc. She def can beat Bill. He just isn't fast enough to compensate for her huge speed and skill advantage. It's not like lightning is going to hurt her. LOL. She has her own.

Originally posted by TerrellCarter
She beat Genocide, Primaid, Ares, Diamos, Kid Amazo, Queen of Fables,Etc. She def can beat Bill. He just isn't fast enough to compensate for her huge speed and skill advantage. It's not like lightning is going to hurt her. LOL. She has her own.

I would have nvr guessed.

Originally posted by Don Corleone
I would have nvr guessed. Dude you don't have to guess. It's all in her comics.

Bill for the majority. Diana's defenses will be tough for Bill to intially overcome, but his versatility and power will pull through in the end.

Bill edges it imo.

WW wins fairly easily. She is faster and more skilled, can one shot through the lasso, and can counter anything Bill throws at her. She wins a solid majority if not ALL.

Wonder Woman isn't faster.

in before....wooops h1 already in....to late..

Originally posted by carver9
Wonder Woman isn't faster. Hell yes she is. Shit. She's faster than Superman in reaction times and Bill ain't ****ing with Superman in the speed department. I doubt Bill can hit as hard as Superman can. Wonder Wins this. A lasso soul suck, or lasso tie, or tiara toss, pretty much one shots Bill. He can't one shot her but she can one shot him.

Originally posted by nvr4gottten
Hell yes she is. Shit. She's faster than Superman in reaction times and Bill ain't ****ing with Superman in the speed department. I doubt Bill can hit as hard as Superman can. Wonder Wins this. A lasso soul suck, or lasso tie, or tiara toss, pretty much one shots Bill. He can't one shot her but she can one shot him.

WTF... Bill was fighting Surfer at light speed. WTF... Bill was wrecking planets in his fight against Star dust. Hell, he wreck two planets.

NEXT.

Originally posted by nvr4gottten
QVS3WNt7yRU

Originally posted by carver9
WTF... Bill was fighting Surfer at light speed. WTF... Bill was wrecking planets in his fight against Star dust. Hell, he wreck two planets.

NEXT. Wrecking a planet with no known density or size means shit. And how do we know he was fighting Surfer at light speeds? So what if he was. Diana fought Superman, Amazo, and Zoom. ALL of whom move faster than light.

Originally posted by carver9
Wonder Woman isn't faster.

Prove it.

Originally posted by nvr4gottten
Wrecking a planet with no known density or size means shit. And how do we know he was fighting Surfer at light speeds? So what if he was. Diana fought Superman, Amazo, and Zoom. ALL of whom move faster than light.

He was wrecking planets, get over it.

Skuttle bucket was moving at Hyper speeds and Surfer and Bill was fighting while keeping up with skuttlebucket the entire time.

Show me Superman and Wnder Woman fighting each other at light speed and you better not show that Max Lord fight because I boo booed on that feat a long time ago.

Show me Wonder Woman fighting Amazo at light speed AND PROVE IT. Show me Wonder Woman fighting Zoom at light and prove it. Don't show me her tagging him because that's not enough.

Originally posted by carver9
Show me Superman and Wnder Woman fighting at light speed and you better not show that Max Lord fight because I boo booed on that feat a long time ago.

No you didn't.

Originally posted by carver9
He was wrecking planets, get over it.

Skuttle bucket was moving at Hyper speeds and Surfer and Bill was fighting while keeping up with skuttlebucket the entire time.

Show me Superman and Wnder Woman fighting each other at light speed and you better not show that Max Lord fight because I boo booed on that feat a long time ago.

Show me Wonder Woman fighting Amazo at light speed AND PROVE IT. Show me Wonder Woman fighting Zoom at light and prove it. Don't show me her tagging him because that's not enough.

What the fact she was blind when she tagged Zoom.

Originally posted by carver9
Skuttle bucket looool

Bill ftw

Originally posted by -Pr-
No you didn't.

Max Lord stated that the fight took 2 minutes right? We clearly see when Max Lord start recording the fight and none of it took place during the time Supes and Wondy flew to the sun. It basically started when Supes punched her from the sun to Earth as shown on the right at the bottom of this scan (Max Lord states... "start recording...things that make you go hhhmmm).

http://www.picamatic.com/view/1230181_job39vm/

Even though it took 2 minutes for the fight on Earth (which is impressive) to take place...its not a light speed feat. Not close to it.

Carver be droppin bombs on em.

Originally posted by SquallX
What the fact she was blind when she tagged Zoom.

Hhhmmm... she adapted and trained her other senses. Hell, she fought better blind vs with her site. She stalemated the Justice League. No one is saying that she is slow but she never shown that she can fight at light speeds.

Originally posted by carver9
Max Lord stated that the fight took 2 minutes right? We clearly see when Max Lord start recording the fight and none of it took place during the time Supes and Wondy flew to the sun. It basically started when Supes punched her from the sun to Earth as shown on the right at the bottom of this scan (Max Lord states... "start recording...things that make you go hhhmmm).

http://www.picamatic.com/view/1230181_job39vm/

Even though it took 2 minutes for the fight on Earth (which is impressive) to take place...its not a light speed feat. Not close to it.

Umm, no. The entire fight takes place in under two minutes. Not just the portion you're talking about, iirc.

Alright.

Considering Zoom (whose CIS stops him from ragestomping virtually every character he fights) while it is a good feat, let's not blow it out of proportion. Case in point, if Zoom wanted to beat Diana, he would. Don't see how you can argue the point. I can't think of anytime Diana has actually fought at lightspeeds. Display lightspeed reflexes? Most definitely.

Her movement speed coupled with skill and reflexes make this tough for Bill, but if (really when) Diana gets tagged, it's going to hurt, and badly at that. Her bracers will protect against most of Bill's ranged attacks, but up close, her stats and skills aren't so far beyond Bill that she'll avoid every attack of his. Considering how they fight in character, I see the first few minutes of the fight being pretty even until Bill connects a blow, in which case Diana will be hurting pretty badly. Conversely, Diana's blows, while definitely powerful in her own right, will have less of an impact than vice versa. Diana can't afford to fight Bill head on and hope her speed/defenses enable her to evade or endure his attacks.

Concerning her tiara and lasso...the tiara will do some damage if it connects with Bill, though Stormbreaker is a pretty good defensive tool in its own right. The lasso can prove to be Bill's undoing, but you can say that about almost anyone getting caught in its grasp.

All in all, I give Bill 6-7/10. Her power output and versatility and his own defensive options give him an advantage against Diana, but she is by no means easily taken out by him.

we talkin current wonder woman

Originally posted by -Pr-
Umm, no. The entire fight takes place in under two minutes. Not just the portion you're talking about, iirc.




Wow.

Originally posted by psycho gundam
looool

I loled on that too...

Originally posted by carver9


Wow.

Actually I needed to correct myself.

They're at the sun when Lord begins recording, before Superman punches her to Earth. They're still moving faster than light.

So yes, you're still wrong.

And you can still interpret it as being the whole fight, going by Max's dialogue.

Originally posted by -Pr-
Actually I needed to correct myself.

They're at the sun when Lord begins recording, before Superman punches her to Earth. They're still moving faster than light.

So yes, you're still wrong.

And you can still interpret it as being the whole fight, going by Max's dialogue.

How is that light speed for Wondy when she was knocked out during the punch. I'm not question if Supes could fly through space at light speed... we all know that he can but that was not a light speed feat.

When Wondy returns to Max lord, hes clearly looking at the recording to get the time on how long the fight took place. This wasn't something that was quoted from memory from Max.

Originally posted by carver9
How is that light speed for Wondy when she was knocked out during the punch. I'm not question if Supes could fly through space at light speed... we all know that he can but that was not a light speed feat.

When Wondy returns to Max lord, hes clearly looking at the recording to get the time on how long the fight took place. This wasn't something that was quoted from memory from Max.

He says "from start to finish". You could easily interpret that as him saying the entire fight, not just his recording. If you wanted, I mean.

Going by the assumption that it's two minutes from the time he starts recording to the time he says the actual time. Let's go over what had happened:

Superman and Diana fight at the sun. Superman punches Diana from the sun to earth (and the time it took isn't quantified). Then there's a further 8 pages of them fighting. If it's not a light speed fight, then what is it?

And then, EVEN THEN, if you want to argue that it's not light speed, there are all her other speed feats.

You still have to prove that Bill is faster.

Also, Max starts tracking them the minute they leave the atmosphere. He could easily be referring to that.

Originally posted by -Pr-
He says "from start to finish". You could easily interpret that as him saying the entire fight, not just his recording. If you wanted, I mean.

Going by the assumption that it's two minutes from the time he starts recording to the time he says the actual time. Let's go over what had happened:

Superman and Diana fight at the sun. Superman punches Diana from the sun to earth (and the time it took isn't quantified). Then there's a further 8 pages of them fighting. If it's not a light speed fight, then what is it?

And then, EVEN THEN, if you want to argue that it's not light speed, there are all her other speed feats.

You still have to prove that Bill is faster.

Also, Max starts tracking them the minute they leave the atmosphere. He could easily be referring to that.

Pr... that scan that I posted was pretty clear. I can't even believe that you posted this. Max Lord even look at the timer before Diana arrives while flying there and tells her how long it took when she arrives. I give up. You can have it.

Originally posted by carver9
Pr... that scan that I posted was pretty clear. I can't even believe that you posted this. Max Lord even look at the timer before Diana arrives while flying there and tells her how long it took when she arrives. I give up. You can have it.

I don't see what your problem is. He started tracking them before he started recording them. Those are two separate occurences, and either could be argued.

I even gave you the benefit of the doubt, and asked you to still prove that Bill was faster with some speed feats, but you didn't provide them.

Originally posted by -Pr-
I don't see what your problem is. He started tracking them before he started recording them. Those are two separate occurences, and either could be argued.

I even gave you the benefit of the doubt, and asked you to still prove that Bill was faster with some speed feats, but you didn't provide them.

Skuttle Bucket was moving at speeds far greater than light and we see both Surfer and Bill keeping up with the ship and also battling/combating/blocking each other while again, keeping pace with the ship.

http://m673.photobucket.com/albumview/albums/galanphotos/brb_surfer1.jpg.html?src=www&action=view&current=brb_surfer1.jpg

If you want fast hand movements, I have that... if you want blitzes from Bill... have that also.

Who's faster? WW Who's Stronger? WW Who's more durable? Close, but WW is a little better. Who's a better fighter? WW. who's got more XP? WW Who can 100 percent end the fight with one shot? WW via lasso. Who is more versatile? Bill. Who is better offense? Bill. Defense? WW. i think WW all but stomps.

Even if Bill wasn't so inferior physically, WW's speed alone is so far beyond bill's it's stupid. She's a lightspeeder no matter what he bio says. Remember cheetah when she had the speedforce eq?

Originally posted by carver9
Skuttle Bucket was moving at speeds far greater than light


It's Skuttlebutt

Originally posted by long pig
Who's faster? WW Who's Stronger? WW Who's more durable? Close, but WW is a little better. Who's a better fighter? WW. who's got more XP? WW Who can 100 percent end the fight with one shot? WW via lasso. Who is more versatile? Bill. Who is better offense? Bill. Defense? WW. i think WW all but stomps.

http://m673.photobucket.com/albumview/albums/galanphotos/brb_strike1.jpg.html?src=www&action=view&current=brb_strike1.jpg

http://m673.photobucket.com/albumview/albums/galanphotos/brb_strike2.jpg.html?src=www&action=view&current=brb_strike2.jpg

Are you really expecting me to case enough to click the link? Just say what the link shows....and i promise to ignore that too.

Click it.

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
It's Skuttlebutt

I know...

I like calling it SkuttleBucket because it looks just like that, a flying bucket.

Originally posted by carver9
Click it. NO.

Originally posted by carver9
Skuttle Bucket was moving at speeds far greater than light and we see both Surfer and Bill keeping up with the ship and also battling/combating/blocking each other while again, keeping pace with the ship.

http://m673.photobucket.com/albumview/albums/galanphotos/brb_surfer1.jpg.html?src=www&action=view&current=brb_surfer1.jpg

If you want fast hand movements, I have that... if you want blitzes from Bill... have that also.

Okay, good start. What else have you got?

Originally posted by carver9
http://m673.photobucket.com/albumview/albums/galanphotos/brb_strike1.jpg.html?src=www&action=view&current=brb_strike1.jpg

http://m673.photobucket.com/albumview/albums/galanphotos/brb_strike2.jpg.html?src=www&action=view&current=brb_strike2.jpg

What's that supposed to prove? Bill destroyed a planet with help. Good for him.

Bill for a very slight majority, if this is classic Diana that is.

No. Not at all. She's his superior. What does he have that she can't block? He gets 3 outta 10. Speed lasso ftw.

Originally posted by -Pr-
Okay, good start. What else have you got?



What's that supposed to prove? Bill destroyed a planet with help. Good for him.

My scans would be pointless because Bill and Diana have the same type of feats.

Blocking projectiles/blast, blitzing ...

http://m673.photobucket.com/albumview/albums/galanphotos/brb_sasquatch1.jpg.html?src=www&action=view&current=brb_sasquatch1.jpg

They are pretty much even in the speed dept imo. Everything else... Bill has the edge in. Surviving 2 planets exploding on him... surviving in the core of the sun... surviving 2 initial, point blank attacks from a pissed Galactus and the list goes on.

Bill is far more powerful as well and far more versatile.

Wonder Woman fighting skills and her bracers is the key to this fight and could give her some wins (don't know how many).

Originally posted by carver9
My scans would be pointless because Bill and Diana have the same type of feats.

Blocking projectiles/blast, blitzing ...

http://m673.photobucket.com/albumview/albums/galanphotos/brb_sasquatch1.jpg.html?src=www&action=view&current=brb_sasquatch1.jpg

They are pretty much even in the speed dept imo. Everything else... Bill has the edge in. Surviving 2 planets exploding on him... surviving in the core of the sun... surviving 2 initial, point blank attacks from a pissed Galactus and the list goes on.

Bill is far more powerful as well and far more versatile.

Wonder Woman fighting skills and her bracers is the key to this fight and could give her some wins (don't know how many).

That's more a bullrush than a speedblitz. anything else?

and you're sure he survived all of those without any aid whatsoever?

Bill 6/10

Originally posted by long pig
No. Not at all. She's his superior. What does he have that she can't block? He gets 3 outta 10.

Make your mind up, She is either ALL out superior and "all but stomps" or Dave gets 3/10.

Now , please elaborate on how Bill gets his 3/10. And explain wh it can't be applied to make a 4/10..or a 5/..possibly a 6/?

Originally posted by carver9
He was wrecking planets, get over it.

Skuttle bucket was moving at Hyper speeds and Surfer and Bill was fighting while keeping up with skuttlebucket the entire time.

Show me Superman and Wnder Woman fighting each other at light speed and you better not show that Max Lord fight because I boo booed on that feat a long time ago.

Show me Wonder Woman fighting Amazo at light speed AND PROVE IT. Show me Wonder Woman fighting Zoom at light and prove it. Don't show me her tagging him because that's not enough. You know as well as i do that flying at lightspeed while fighting isn't the same as lightspeed fighting. Two jets flying faster than sound fighting doesn't mean the pilots have superspeed. Bill can move way faster than light, but reaction wise he's very limited. Not in the same league as Ww. He's got no chance getting physical with her. Same with Thor. It sucks but deal with it. Bill is a billion times cooler though.

Originally posted by Juk3n
Make your mind up, She is either ALL out superior and "all but stomps" or Dave gets 3/10.

Now , please elaborate on how Bill gets his 3/10. And explain wh it can't be applied to make a 4/10..or a 5/..possibly a 6/? No. She IS all out superior -physically-. Power output wise she is not. She can't curbstomp because he's got a puncher's chance. Her blunt force trauma durability is some of the highest in comics, but there's always a chance. A shat chance, but a chance. But you're right, 3-10 is a bit low. 4-10 is better.

Bill wins. This is a good fight though.

Originally posted by long pig
You know as well as i do that flying at lightspeed while fighting isn't the same as lightspeed fighting. Two jets flying faster than sound fighting doesn't mean the pilots have superspeed. Bill can move way faster than light, but reaction wise he's very limited. Not in the same league as Ww. He's got no chance getting physical with her. Same with Thor. It sucks but deal with it. Bill is a billion times cooler though.

I have always said this... flying through space at light doesn't equal faster than light speed combat... not even close. I would give Diana the edge reflex wise but its not enough to make it a stomp and she sure as hell doesn't fight at light speed or anywhere close to it.

Diana skills along with her superior combat speed makes this a fight but overall Bill is just more powerful imo.

Originally posted by -Pr-
That's more a bullrush than a speedblitz. anything else?

and you're sure he survived all of those without any aid whatsoever?

I agree, it is a bullrush.

As for your comment on him surviving what I said... yes, he did it twice. The first time he did it, Star Dust and him were driving (can't think of her name) Omega through the core of the planet which made it explode.

The second time it happened was when Bill set a trap for Galactus. He was basically trying to starve Galactus out and him and Galactus was on a boobie trapped planet and the planet exploded while Bill and Galactus was on it.

Originally posted by carver9
WTF... Bill was fighting Surfer at light speed. WTF... Bill was wrecking planets in his fight against Star dust. Hell, he wreck two planets.

NEXT.

Bill wasn't fighting at light speed, he was traveling at light speed on his ship. How fast do you think you are traveling right now around the milky way? Now get in a fight. Congratulations, you are fighting faster than the speed of sound. And light speed is nothing to WW.

Do you know how Bill wrecked the planets? Merely saying that he wreck them (without the how) as evidence to him wrecking WW is faulty.

He wrecked one by shooting a blast that made the planet's core unstable, causing it to exploded. He wrecked another using technology.

There is no way Bill can beat someone who is more skilled, faster, and have several one shot tactics. Being more powerful as to decide who will win is purely faulty reasoning. This is lazy debating.

Character A can be more powerful than Character B. But Character B will win against Character A for XYZ reasons.

Originally posted by h1a8
Bill wasn't fighting at light speed, he was traveling at light speed on his ship. How fast do you think you are traveling right now around the milky way? Now get in a fight. Congratulations, you are fighting faster than the speed of sound. And light speed is nothing to WW.

Do you know how Bill wrecked the planets? Merely saying that he wreck them (without the how) as evidence to him wrecking WW is faulty.

He wrecked one by shooting a blast that made the planet's core unstable, causing it to exploded. He wrecked another using technology.

There is no way Bill can beat someone who is more skilled, faster, and have several one shot tactics.

Look at my scans on the previous page please because you don't know what you are talking about. Bill never destroyed a planet with a blast.

Wonder Woman doesn't combat at light speed. I'm not wasting my time debating with you H1... your posts are insane and you don't know about the characters you debate for or against.

Delta Ray Dave.

Agreed

Alpha Ray Andy takes this, her blocking ability with the bracers is not enough to secure anything like a majority here as made evident in her own 'verse nor is her punching power, and while combat speed (not just her bracer blocking) is debateable, their power output is not, he is significantly higher in the physical striking and energy output range. Durability also. More ruthless also. WW gets wins with her gear, if the DC buffs want to include her Lasso , then so be it, she fast enough to get in close and durable enough to tank a couple close range hits while she goes for the pin.

But if the DC'ers want a FIGHT..and decide to take it upon themselves to exclude 1HK weapons. Zeta Ray Zohan would get a majority.

something about zeta ray zohan bothers me ....

Originally posted by Lord Feron
something about zeta ray zohan bothers me ....

Is it because he has long foot..

i mean a 'foot long..'

Originally posted by -Pr-
That's more a bullrush than a speedblitz. anything else?

and you're sure he survived all of those without any aid whatsoever? Well, Galactus knocked him out, then he woke up in the sun and the sun's heat sort of revives him...

Originally posted by TerrellCarter
She beat Genocide, Primaid, Ares, Diamos, Kid Amazo, Queen of Fables,Etc. She def can beat Bill. He just isn't fast enough to compensate for her huge speed and skill advantage. It's not like lightning is going to hurt her. LOL. She has her own. She can beat him not just for a majority. She's good for a fluke win here and there this I can agree with.

Originally posted by carver9
Wonder Woman isn't faster.

Originally posted by carver9
WTF... Bill was fighting Surfer at light speed.

Originally posted by carver9
I would give Diana the edge reflex wise

Originally posted by carver9
Wonder Woman doesn't combat at light speed.

http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee20/OmegatheRobot/joker.gif

so which is it?

and for anyone wondering, i just trimmed quotes; i didn't change the content.

Originally posted by Sr J-Bieb
Well, Galactus knocked him out, then he woke up in the sun and the sun's heat sort of revives him...

so much for tanking.

Originally posted by Juk3n
Agreed

Alpha Ray Andy takes this, her blocking ability with the bracers is not enough to secure anything like a majority here as made evident in her own 'verse nor is her punching power, and while combat speed (not just her bracer blocking) is debateable, their power output is not, he is significantly higher in the physical striking and energy output range. Durability also. More ruthless also. WW gets wins with her gear, if the DC buffs want to include her Lasso , then so be it, she fast enough to get in close and durable enough to tank a couple close range hits while she goes for the pin.

But if the DC'ers want a FIGHT..and decide to take it upon themselves to exclude 1HK weapons. Zeta Ray Zohan would get a majority. Are you kidding me? She's blocked Amazo, Superman, Circe, White Martians. Etc. Her blocking ability is going to block everything Bill can throw at her. He's no Superman. Superman is the only being in DC able to physically best her on the heros side of things. And even Superman has to work for a win. WW's combat speed is all over Bills. She's blocked multiple light speed projections from all angles. Bill can't attack that fast. And getting physical would be aweful for Bill. She's far more skilled than he is. And faster. Not only that, Her lasso and tiaro are one shot wonders. She's got lightning if he decides to get too close. And Bill certainly isn't more ruthless. Remember Diana's fight with Genocide? Yeah. I'm done. Bann me again till next time. LOL.

Nvr, I'll sell you my account.

facepalm

Alpha Ray Albert FTW.

Omega Ray Ozzy

Originally posted by Mindset
Nvr, I'll sell you my account. What is crazy is that I can't post links. I was gonna screw with the mods noodles and post a picture of me and Fangirl together. LOL they banned Fangirl for being a sock. And she isn't me. LOLOLOL.

OK.

Pm me your credit card number.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Alright.

Considering Zoom (whose CIS stops him from ragestomping virtually every character he fights) while it is a good feat, let's not blow it out of proportion. Case in point, if Zoom wanted to beat Diana, he would. Don't see how you can argue the point. I can't think of anytime Diana has actually fought at lightspeeds. Display lightspeed reflexes? Most definitely.

Her movement speed coupled with skill and reflexes make this tough for Bill, but if (really when) Diana gets tagged, it's going to hurt, and badly at that. Her bracers will protect against most of Bill's ranged attacks, but up close, her stats and skills aren't so far beyond Bill that she'll avoid every attack of his. Considering how they fight in character, I see the first few minutes of the fight being pretty even until Bill connects a blow, in which case Diana will be hurting pretty badly. Conversely, Diana's blows, while definitely powerful in her own right, will have less of an impact than vice versa. Diana can't afford to fight Bill head on and hope her speed/defenses enable her to evade or endure his attacks.

Concerning her tiara and lasso...the tiara will do some damage if it connects with Bill, though Stormbreaker is a pretty good defensive tool in its own right. The lasso can prove to be Bill's undoing, but you can say that about almost anyone getting caught in its grasp.

All in all, I give Bill 6-7/10. Her power output and versatility and his own defensive options give him an advantage against Diana, but she is by no means easily taken out by him.

The fight will go as follows:
Bill shoots a beam at WW, she deflects it back at him.
They get close and engage in h2h.
Bill swings, Diana blocks/dodges and then counters with a serious combo (using pressure points).
Bill is stunned. Diana then casually lassos him or continues to combo him ftw.

Superman is a much harder fight (because of his speed).

beta ray bill's a cyborg genius

WW FTW

Jakethebank, that is the most illogical thing said in this thread. Why would the stronger, harder hitting more durable WW be hurt worse when struck by the weaker, not-as-hard-hitting less durable Bill? Even if she wasn't faster, she's still stronger. When you add her speed into her already superior strength, it makes her able to hit even that much harder. It's a wash. The difference in speed between her and him is about the same as a peak human and quicksilver. Like i said before, her blunt force durability is probably equal to cap marvel(but a normal guy with a sharp knife could stab her). His hammer, IF he lands a single blow with it, isn't too much for her to handle. BUT....he's not hitting her with it. His only chance is a lucky shot or some omniblast. Otherwise...-fart-. Get over it marvel fans, dc characters are usually on a diff level.

Originally posted by carver9
http://m673.photobucket.com/albumview/albums/galanphotos/brb_strike1.jpg.html?src=www&action=view&current=brb_strike1.jpg

http://m673.photobucket.com/albumview/albums/galanphotos/brb_strike2.jpg.html?src=www&action=view&current=brb_strike2.jpg

Click it long pig... it will help you.

Click the tabs.

Originally posted by long pig
Jakethebank, that is the most illogical thing said in this thread. Why would the stronger, harder hitting more durable WW be hurt worse when struck by the weaker, not-as-hard-hitting less durable Bill? Even if she wasn't faster, she's still stronger. When you add her speed into her already superior strength, it makes her able to hit even that much harder. It's a wash. The difference in speed between her and him is about the same as a peak human and quicksilver. Like i said before, her blunt force durability is probably equal to cap marvel(but a normal guy with a sharp knife could stab her). His hammer, IF he lands a single blow with it, isn't too much for her to handle. BUT....he's not hitting her with it. His only chance is a lucky shot or some omniblast. Otherwise...-fart-. Get over it marvel fans, dc characters are usually on a diff level.

Based on what is she physically stronger than Bill? Based on what does she strike harder than Bill? Based on what is she more durable than Bill? I've read virtually all of WW from George Perez' reintroduction of the charrie post crisis to the current meh worthy JMS run; I can't think of any feats which clearly make her superior to Bill on any of those aspects. Speed, skill, and reflexes, most definitely, but strength, striking power, durability? I sincerely doubt it.

Do you really think Diana's fist does more damage than someone - let's assume he's her equal in strength (even though I believe he's superior) using a melee weapon such as Stormbreaker? If they were to trade blows, one right after the other, do you think Diana would come out looking less troubled? Speed as in how it pertains to combat reflexes and the like, sure. Flight speed, no.

Based on his feats, and the abilities of both characters here, yes, Bill is going to strike Diana and more than once. It has nothing to do with being DC or Marvel, which is a poor excuse at the end of the day to discredit another poster's argument by labeling them as pro-one company or another.

There's nothing Diana has done to suggest she fights Bill and walks away unscathed. To even argue the point is asinine.

Jake... going by feats... would you put Bill above Thor. Imo, his latest showings pretty much puts him on another level imo.

Originally posted by carver9
Jake... going by feats... would you put Bill above Thor. Imo, his latest showings pretty much puts him on another level imo.

I wouldn't, Carv, and for a few reasons.

1.) Bill generally has more of a reason to cut loose and not hold back as he appears in more cosmic/space themed stories in which there's no plot device reason to curb his power. Thor, since his revival, has been stuck on Earth for the most part, and as such, is forced to hold back a great deal, something which has been stated and shown through out his entire history. But when Thor does go cosmic or larger than life, he still gets pretty epic. See Chaos War for example. And if Astonishing Thor is any indicator, we'll be seeing more of Thor in that light for a while.

2.) Thor's "classic" feats are still canon to him and as such, still count.

3.) Bill, at best, is portrayed as an equal to Thor and has only really been considered a superior when it comes to heat based environments.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
I wouldn't, Carv, and for a few reasons.

1.) Bill generally has more of a reason to cut loose and not hold back as he appears in more cosmic/space themed stories in which there's no plot device reason to curb his power. Thor, since his revival, has been stuck on Earth for the most part, and as such, is forced to hold back a great deal, something which has been stated and shown through out his entire history. But when Thor does go cosmic or larger than life, he still gets pretty epic. See Chaos War for example. And if Astonishing Thor is any indicator, we'll be seeing more of Thor in that light for a while.

2.) Thor's "classic" feats are still canon to him and as such, still count.

3.) Bill, at best, is portrayed as an equal to Thor and has only really been considered a superior when it comes to heat based environments.

His destructive power along with his strength just seems pretty much up there imo. He has crack open Galactus armor and survived 2 initial, pissed off attacks from Galactus (was only stunned). He destroyed 2 planets during one fight... he tanked 2 planets exploding on him... survived in the heart of a sun and acted as if he didn't feel it. Shrugged off the pull of a black hole... was inside the core of Stardust attack and was shrugging it off like it was nothing... then he defeated Omega, who was classified as a universal threat and he did it off of power alone. Then let's not forget about his recent "black sun" feat.

Bill is pretty high on the totem pole imo.

Thor classic feats tend to revolve more on hyperbolic statements vs actions imo compared to what Bill has done on panel.

Bill at best is equal to Thor. Thor at best outperforms Bill.

Bill fares slightly better in heat environments though. Wonder if that is still known; the scene in Secret Invasion makes me wonder. Either way, I don't think his more durable to heat, it compliments his physiology or what have you.

Originally posted by carver9
His destructive power along with his strength just seems pretty much up there imo. He has crack open Galactus armor and survived 2 initial, pissed off attacks from Galactus (was only stunned). He destroyed 2 planets during one fight... he tanked 2 planets exploding on him... survived in the heart of a sun and acted as if he didn't feel it. Shrugged off the pull of a black hole... was inside the core of Stardust attack and was shrugging it off like it was nothing... then he defeated Omega, who was classified as a universal threat and he did it off of power alone. Then let's not forget about his recent "black sun" feat.

Bill is pretty high on the totem pole imo.

Thor classic feats tend to revolve more on hyperbolic statements vs actions imo compared to what Bill has done on panel.

Yes, and those are great for Bill, but virtually everything you've described, Thor has replicated with his own feats or has done something equal in power/scale, so they don't really portray him being > Thor.

He is high on the totem pole, he's a high herald.

I can see how you can get that impression when Thor is monologuing, but the majority of his epic feats are pretty clear cut.

Didn't WW help carry the weight of the entire universe along with other heroes? Can't recall what exactly happened, though. When I said ' get over it marvel fans' I wasn't calling you a fanboy, in fact I was counting myself as part of them. All i meant by it is the rampant denial WE Marvel fans seem to be in when it comes to OUR high level characters and DC's. They are almost always in another league physically speaking. How common is it to hear 'I hate Superman because he's way too powerful.' followed by 'Superman gets owned....' when referring to some medium level herald. It wouldn't be that hard to find WW feats of strength that surpass even Thor, who is absoluty superior to bill physically. And arguing speed equality is just stupid and you know it. And yes, WW hitting Bill at near LS with her fists a hundred times a second would do far more damage than bill trying and failing to hit WW with his hammer. Without a doubt. It's just...you can't possibally believe what you're saying here.

Originally posted by long pig
Didn't WW help carry the weight of the entire universe along with other heroes? Can't recall what exactly happened, though. When I said ' get over it marvel fans' I wasn't calling you a fanboy, in fact I was counting myself as part of them. All i meant by it is the rampant denial WE Marvel fans seem to be in when it comes to OUR high level characters and DC's. They are almost always in another league physically speaking. How common is it to hear 'I hate Superman because he's way too powerful.' followed by 'Superman gets owned....' when referring to some medium level herald. It wouldn't be that hard to find WW feats of strength that surpass even Thor, who is absoluty superior to bill physically. And arguing speed equality is just stupid and you know it. And yes, WW hitting Bill at near LS with her fists a hundred times a second would do far more damage than bill trying and failing to hit WW with his hammer. Without a doubt. It's just...you can't possibally believe what you're saying here.

She's helped towed Earth and the moon before, both with help and as such it's next to impossible to determine how much she contributed outside of "a lot of weight". She's helped lifted the Spectre who was described as weighing "eternity", which again, is unquantifiable, albeit a good feat of strength. These feats in of themselves don't put her beyond Bill in terms of strength, not based on his own feats and who he has matched or stalemated in pure strength (ie. Thor).

And while there are certainly posters who do dislike Superman for being "uber" or because he's DC, it's not a majority, and for every diehard anti-DC poster you have, there's an equally overzealous DC supporter. Which is why bringing up company bias is really irrelevant because we all know there's enough to go around, Marvel or DC. As someone who reads comics from both companies, Superman included, it's really tiring to hear this "Oh, there's some kind of KMC anti-Superman/DC movement" style of argument (not accusing you of saying this, btw) and attempting to paint the overall vibe of the forums as some place that holds some irrational grudge against the character and company he represents, when in reality, it's a handful of posters. And in the same breath, conviently ignoring or refusing to point out the sheer ludicrous of people who believe Superman solos Galactus or that he'll operate and use his speeds at levels never shown in comics and to argue otherwise is "hating Superman/DC." Case in point, there's zealots and biased and self-righteous posters representing both companies and whomever their favorite characters are. Thor, Hulk, Surfer, Superman, Flash, Green Lanterns, etc. It's everywhere.

Which of WW's strength feats surpass Thor? And even if she did have them, it's certainly not the norm, not based on her character.

Based on what is Diana going to hit someone a hundred times a second, much less anywhere close to lightspeed? Has she ever displayed this kind of speed or tactic in a comic book? If so, please, show me or tell me the issue; I'd genuinely appreciate it if Diana has done this. Further more, you're assuming, I don't know, Bill stands there and lets such a thing happen to him, which is pretty much downplaying him. It's debatable than Diana even possesses planetary striking power based on her feats - we can make guesses, but prove it? - whereas Bill does. Diana will block several of his attacks, sure, but he's going to hit here, either though melee, a hammer toss (which can go FTL as well as home on an opponent), massive AoE style attacks, BFRing to a realm/environment of his choosing, etc.

I believe what I'm saying because I've actually read an extraordinary amount of Wonder Woman comics and I'm pretty sure I have a pretty damn good handle on the character, and the idea she walks all over Bill for a massive majority is pretty unfounded.

Bill has far too many options for Diana to overcome with her advantages for the majority here.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
She's helped towed Earth and the moon before, both with help and as such it's next to impossible to determine how much she contributed outside of "a lot of weight". She's helped lifted the Spectre who was described as weighing "eternity", which again, is unquantifiable, albeit a good feat of strength. These feats in of themselves don't put her beyond Bill in terms of strength, not based on his own feats and who he has matched or stalemated in pure strength (ie. Thor).

And while there are certainly posters who do dislike Superman for being "uber" or because he's DC, it's not a majority, and for every diehard anti-DC poster you have, there's an equally overzealous DC supporter. Which is why bringing up company bias is really irrelevant because we all know there's enough to go around, Marvel or DC. As someone who reads comics from both companies, Superman included, it's really tiring to hear this "Oh, there's some kind of KMC anti-Superman/DC movement" style of argument (not accusing you of saying this, btw) and attempting to paint the overall vibe of the forums as some place that holds some irrational grudge against the character and company he represents, when in reality, it's a handful of posters. And in the same breath, conviently ignoring or refusing to point out the sheer ludicrous of people who believe Superman solos Galactus or that he'll operate and use his speeds at levels never shown in comics and to argue otherwise is "hating Superman/DC." Case in point, there's zealots and biased and self-righteous posters representing both companies and whomever their favorite characters are. Thor, Hulk, Surfer, Superman, Flash, Green Lanterns, etc. It's everywhere.

Which of WW's strength feats surpass Thor? And even if she did have them, it's certainly not the norm, not based on her character.

Based on what is Diana going to hit someone a hundred times a second, much less anywhere close to lightspeed? Has she ever displayed this kind of speed or tactic in a comic book? If so, please, show me or tell me the issue; I'd genuinely appreciate it if Diana has done this. Further more, you're assuming, I don't know, Bill stands there and lets such a thing happen to him, which is pretty much downplaying him. It's debatable than Diana even possesses planetary striking power based on her feats - we can make guesses, but prove it? - whereas Bill does. Diana will block several of his attacks, sure, but he's going to hit here, either though melee, a hammer toss (which can go FTL as well as home on an opponent), massive AoE style attacks, BFRing to a realm/environment of his choosing, etc.

I believe what I'm saying because I've actually read an extraordinary amount of Wonder Woman comics and I'm pretty sure I have a pretty damn good handle on the character, and the idea she walks all over Bill for a massive majority is pretty unfounded.

Bill has far too many options for Diana to overcome with her advantages for the majority here.

I hate extaordinary/great debators... it makes my stomach hurt.

Good post by the way... very good post.

Originally posted by carver9
Click it long pig... it will help you.

Click the tabs. Not gonna happen. It sets a bad precedent.

Originally posted by long pig
Not gonna happen. It sets a bad precedent.

Good point about the hammer's throwing speed and homing ability. That is a pretty powerful offensive capability. But I've always maintained Bill's offense is superior to WW's. That's simply an undeniable fact. But still not enough to take the maj. I'm just too impressed with her speed and unimpressed with his. If they were equal in speed, it would be a massive game changer.

Her speed is superior, yes, but it's not by such a degree that she'll land every attack she throws on Bill while evading all of his. Diana doesn't fight like that, and doesn't display that level of speed needed to perform such a feat against Bill.

Her advantages in this fight include:
-Speed
-Skill
-The Lasso

And while the lasso can potentially end this fight, considering how often she goes for it and how often she actually employs it's exotic powers such as directly attacking the soul, it's not something I'd bet on being likely, at least not for a first encounter. And her speed and skill, while superior to Bill's, isn't shown in comics to be at such a level that he simply cannot compete with and is helpless against her.

If you had to put a cap on bill's reaction-reflex-fight-hand speed, what where would you put it? An honest answer based on contextual feats would have to be subsonic. WW is easily tentimes that. How well would you do against an opponent who, at the very least is as strong as you, more skilled and probably more durable AND can fight 10x faster than you? Sure, bill isn't going to be blitzed to the point where he can't even see what's happening, he'll see, he just won't be able to do much about it. If the hammer is thrown lightspeed, she isn't going to dance around it like flash could, but she won't have to. Either block it, or use her superior mental speed to read his movements and BL to dodge it. a la Batgirl. Batgirl isn't faster than a bullet, but she is faster than the guy shooting the gun. This could be a very similar scenario.

Originally posted by Black bolt z
Omega Ray Ozzy

Gamma Ray Gabe

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
She's helped towed Earth and the moon before, both with help and as such it's next to impossible to determine how much she contributed outside of "a lot of weight". She's helped lifted the Spectre who was described as weighing "eternity", which again, is unquantifiable, albeit a good feat of strength. These feats in of themselves don't put her beyond Bill in terms of strength, not based on his own feats and who he has matched or stalemated in pure strength (ie. Thor).

And while there are certainly posters who do dislike Superman for being "uber" or because he's DC, it's not a majority, and for every diehard anti-DC poster you have, there's an equally overzealous DC supporter. Which is why bringing up company bias is really irrelevant because we all know there's enough to go around, Marvel or DC. As someone who reads comics from both companies, Superman included, it's really tiring to hear this "Oh, there's some kind of KMC anti-Superman/DC movement" style of argument (not accusing you of saying this, btw) and attempting to paint the overall vibe of the forums as some place that holds some irrational grudge against the character and company he represents, when in reality, it's a handful of posters. And in the same breath, conviently ignoring or refusing to point out the sheer ludicrous of people who believe Superman solos Galactus or that he'll operate and use his speeds at levels never shown in comics and to argue otherwise is "hating Superman/DC." Case in point, there's zealots and biased and self-righteous posters representing both companies and whomever their favorite characters are. Thor, Hulk, Surfer, Superman, Flash, Green Lanterns, etc. It's everywhere.

Which of WW's strength feats surpass Thor? And even if she did have them, it's certainly not the norm, not based on her character.

Based on what is Diana going to hit someone a hundred times a second, much less anywhere close to lightspeed? Has she ever displayed this kind of speed or tactic in a comic book? If so, please, show me or tell me the issue; I'd genuinely appreciate it if Diana has done this. Further more, you're assuming, I don't know, Bill stands there and lets such a thing happen to him, which is pretty much downplaying him. It's debatable than Diana even possesses planetary striking power based on her feats - we can make guesses, but prove it? - whereas Bill does. Diana will block several of his attacks, sure, but he's going to hit here, either though melee, a hammer toss (which can go FTL as well as home on an opponent), massive AoE style attacks, BFRing to a realm/environment of his choosing, etc.

I believe what I'm saying because I've actually read an extraordinary amount of Wonder Woman comics and I'm pretty sure I have a pretty damn good handle on the character, and the idea she walks all over Bill for a massive majority is pretty unfounded.

Bill has far too many options for Diana to overcome with her advantages for the majority here.

Bill has no actual strength feats. He has plenty of striking feats. His striking feats are not outside the wrealm of power of say, Zoom, whom Diana has tanked. Or a sun amped Superman. Whom Diana has also tanked. She's played strength match against her own strength combined with Superman's in the form of Amazo. And thru shear will power, was lasting until distracted by another team mate being harmed. Diana has struck an opponent multiple times using a speed blitz. It's in her respect thread.

Diana is leagues faster than BRB. You have not one feat of Bills that puts him anywhere near fast enough to get past Wonder Woman's legendary reflexes.

So what we have here is a guy who can strike hard. But not harder than say Zoom or Superman. And not with nearly the speed that they can.

He has some exotic powers. But so what. So does Amazo, Superman, Circe, etc. They don't seem to be a bother to Diana.

Diana has her own exotic powers. And some of her's are one shots. Lasso bind, Lasso soul suck, Tiara, Zeus lightning, and impossible to break shield, and she is the most skilled high tier brick in comics to boot.

Thor would be a good fight for Diana. Bill would lose. Bill has NOTHING that she hasn't faced before.

aside from helping thor lift asgard

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Gamma Ray Gabe Beta Ray Bob?

Originally posted by psycho gundam
aside from helping thor lift asgard That is a good feat. How heavy is Asgard? Is it more heavy than the Moon? Or Earth? Or the Spectre?

Originally posted by googleme
Bill has no actual strength feats. He has plenty of striking feats. His striking feats are not outside the wrealm of power of say, Zoom, whom Diana has tanked. Or a sun amped Superman. Whom Diana has also tanked. She's played strength match against her own strength combined with Superman's in the form of Amazo. And thru shear will power, was lasting until distracted by another team mate being harmed. Diana has struck an opponent multiple times using a speed blitz. It's in her respect thread.

Diana is leagues faster than BRB. You have not one feat of Bills that puts him anywhere near fast enough to get past Wonder Woman's legendary reflexes.

So what we have here is a guy who can strike hard. But not harder than say Zoom or Superman. And not with nearly the speed that they can.

He has some exotic powers. But so what. So does Amazo, Superman, Circe, etc. They don't seem to be a bother to Diana.

Diana has her own exotic powers. And some of her's are one shots. Lasso bind, Lasso soul suck, Tiara, Zeus lightning, and impossible to break shield, and she is the most skilled high tier brick in comics to boot.

Thor would be a good fight for Diana. Bill would lose. Bill has NOTHING that she hasn't faced before.

So wrecking 2 planets and lifting up Asgard isn't a strength feat?

Originally posted by googleme
That is a good feat. How heavy is Asgard? Is it more heavy than the Moon? Or Earth? Or the Spectre?

Did Wondy solo the moon? Did Wondy solo the Earth? The next one... I'm not even commenting on because its doesn't help anything.

Originally posted by carver9
So wrecking 2 planets and lifting up Asgard isn't a strength feat? Someone said he lifted that with Thor. Also, didn't he wreck planets with help? That would also count as striking power. Striking power is not the same as strength. Zoom and Flash can both hit harder than Superman or Thor and yet niether are as strong as Thor or Superman.

Originally posted by googleme
That is a good feat. How heavy is Asgard? Is it more heavy than the Moon? Or Earth? Or the Spectre? the comic nvr stated the mass of asgard

Originally posted by psycho gundam
the comic nvr stated the mass of asgard Ok. So how is it that we are assuming he is stronger than she when that is the only strength feat he has, and it's shared. It could be smaller than a state for all we know. How big is Asgard? Is it a world? I know Asgard has 9 worlds in it. Did they lift all 9 wrealms at once?

i have to read it again for the specifics

anyway, striking power does in fact count, this is a fight.

Originally posted by psycho gundam
i have to read it again for the specifics

anyway, striking power does in fact count, this is a fight. Striking power does count. But only if one can connect. In a real world fight, without comics story coming into play, no one is hitting Woman Woman unless they are like Superman, or the Silver Surfer or someone really really fast. BRB isn't that fast. And even if he was, I dont' think he can hit as hard as Superman.

Originally posted by googleme
Ok. So how is it that we are assuming he is stronger than she when that is the only strength feat he has, and it's shared. It could be smaller than a state for all we know. How big is Asgard? Is it a world? I know Asgard has 9 worlds in it. Did they lift all 9 wrealms at once?

And this is the reason people need to understand that lifting feats isn't that impressive... especially when you compare it to striker power which would be the main thing in a fist fight.

Originally posted by carver9
And this is the reason people need to understand that lifting feats isn't that impressive... especially when you compare it to striker power which would be the main thing in a fist fight.

Then why do you always ask for lifting feats?

Originally posted by -Pr-
Then why do you always ask for lifting feats?

Lol... I promise you I thought twice about posting that comment because I knew you were going to reply to it. I thought for a long time before clicking submit. I only bring up lifting feats when people bring it up first but I mainly bring up striking power... that's why you always see me talking about Glads one shotting high Heralds.

Originally posted by carver9
Lol... I promise you I thought twice about posting that comment because I knew you were going to reply to it. I thought for a long time before clicking submit. I only bring up lifting feats when people bring it up first but I mainly bring up striking power... that's why you always see me talking about Glads one shotting high Heralds.

Which he rarely if ever does, and when he did, it was a high showing, but...

Originally posted by -Pr-
Which he rarely if ever does, and when he did, it was a high showing, but...

Uummm... no. He did/does it a lot.

Originally posted by carver9
Lol... I promise you I thought twice about posting that comment because I knew you were going to reply to it. I thought for a long time before clicking submit. I only bring up lifting feats when people bring it up first but I mainly bring up striking power... that's why you always see me talking about Glads one shotting high Heralds. What high herald has he one shot? You've still never said.

Originally posted by carver9
Uummm... no. He did/does it a lot.

Not really.

Originally posted by Black bolt z
What high herald has he one shot? You've still never said.

He one shotted Black Bolt during War of Kings. An amped Black Bolt charges Glads... someone shoots Black Bolt with a blast to get rid of the amp during mid charge which put him back at him normal levels... he is still charging Glads... Glads raise that right arm and knock his a** out.

@Pr...

He has one shotted 2 centurions/Nova group members, Binary, Rachel, Ben Grim (not saying he is a Herald but his durability showings is amazing and he stated that he has never felt a punch like the one he felt from Glads), he one shotted Black Bolt, one shotted a skrull empowered by Earths heros... can't think of the young lady name that works for the shiar that ripped through the entire Xmen and has tackled the entire xforce... well, she got one shotted as well. He one shotted a Phoenix... punched his head completely off... he punched Wonderman so hard that Wonderman stated that if he didn't roll with the blow, it would have taken his head off. There are more, just can't think of them right now.

Originally posted by carver9
He one shotted Black Bolt during War of Kings. An amped Black Bolt charges Glads... someone shoots Black Bolt with a blast to get rid of the amp during mid charge which put him back at him normal levels... he is still charging Glads... Glads raise that right arm and knock his a** out.

@Pr...

He has one shotted 2 centurions/Nova group members, Binary, Rachel, Ben Grim (not saying he is a Herald but his durability showings is amazing and he stated that he has never felt a punch like the one he felt from Glads), he one shotted Black Bolt, one shotted a skrull empowered by Earths heros... can't think of the young lady name that works for the shiar that ripped through the entire Xmen and has tackled the entire xforce... well, she got one shotted as well. He one shotted a Phoenix... punched his head completely off... he punched Wonderman so hard that Wonderman stated that if he didn't roll with the blow, it would have taken his head off. There are more, just can't think of them right now. I've asked you twice before for scans or to even tell me the issue in which he one shot black bolt.

i never got an answer. So please tell me.

Originally posted by Black bolt z
I've asked you twice before for scans or to even tell me the issue in which he one shot black bolt.

i never got an answer. So please tell me.

I just told you when the fight took place. Its also in his respect threadd (I think).

Forgot to add... he one shotted Vulcan as well.

Diana wins.

Bill's feats are blown out of proportion, for the most part.

Originally posted by carver9
He one shotted Black Bolt during War of Kings. An amped Black Bolt charges Glads... someone shoots Black Bolt with a blast to get rid of the amp during mid charge which put him back at him normal levels... he is still charging Glads... Glads raise that right arm and knock his a** out.

@Pr...

He has one shotted 2 centurions/Nova group members, Binary, Rachel, Ben Grim (not saying he is a Herald but his durability showings is amazing and he stated that he has never felt a punch like the one he felt from Glads), he one shotted Black Bolt, one shotted a skrull empowered by Earths heros... can't think of the young lady name that works for the shiar that ripped through the entire Xmen and has tackled the entire xforce... well, she got one shotted as well. He one shotted a Phoenix... punched his head completely off... he punched Wonderman so hard that Wonderman stated that if he didn't roll with the blow, it would have taken his head off. There are more, just can't think of them right now.

You said High Heralds. Where are they?

Originally posted by carver9
I just told you when the fight took place. Its also in his respect threadd (I think).

Forgot to add... he one shotted Vulcan as well. You said war of kings. Be more specfic.

Originally posted by carver9
Lol... I promise you I thought twice about posting that comment because I knew you were going to reply to it. I thought for a long time before clicking submit. I only bring up lifting feats when people bring it up first but I mainly bring up striking power... that's why you always see me talking about Glads one shotting high Heralds.

Damn, I sure did. I meant to say Heralds... (typing fast). An argument can be made that Bolt and Binary are high heralds.

Originally posted by carver9
Damn, I sure did. I meant to say Heralds... (typing fast). An argument can be made that Bolt and Binary are high heralds.

Even if you wanted to, Wonder Woman has taken down plenty of heralds or equivalent characters herself.

Originally posted by -Pr-
Even if you wanted to, Wonder Woman has taken down plenty of heralds or equivalent characters herself.

Huh? How did this get turned into a WW vs Glads. We were talking about me using strength feats vs striking power.

Has Wonder Woman ever one shotted a Herald level being.

Originally posted by carver9
Huh? How did this get turned into a WW vs Glads. We were talking about me using strength feats vs striking power.

Has Wonder Woman ever one shotted a Herald level being.

Striking power feats are strength feats.

One shotted? I don't recall. Beaten? Sure.

Originally posted by carver9
Huh? How did this get turned into a WW vs Glads. We were talking about me using strength feats vs striking power.

Has Wonder Woman ever one shotted a Herald level being. She's one shotted some White Martians, Captain Atom, and Captain Nazi.

Seriously, stop socking.

Originally posted by -Pr-
Seriously, stop socking. When you give me good reason why the original account was banned. there isn't one. There was even an uproar about it. There was NO reason I was ever banned in the first place. Other than people didn't like my opinions. Email me the original offense. I bet you can't even bring yourself to do it. It was basically I rebuffed the established quo, was insulted for it, and then banned after I defended myself. Prove me wrong.

Originally posted by whystopnow
When you give me good reason why the original account was banned. there isn't one. There was even an uproar about it. There was NO reason I was ever banned in the first place. Other than people didn't like my opinions. Email me the original offense. I bet you can't even bring yourself to do it. It was basically I rebuffed the established quo, was insulted for it, and then banned after I defended myself. Prove me wrong.

You're socking; that's against the rules. You getting pissy about it when you were trolling (and there was NO uproar), just makes it worse.

.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Which feats of Bill's are blown out of proportion, iyo? His 'planet-shattering striking power', for one. He destroyed what was, arguably a moon, while having an immense momentum and surrounded in blazing energy. That doesn't translate into "I can swing my hammer with planet-destructing force from a standing position into battle". Next, against Asteroth, he destroyed what was now obviously a planet - but this time he needed Stardust helping him, getting to the core of the planet, and it had nothing to do with his actual physical planet destructive force - since it's obvious the explosion was produced by the energy in the core. This explosion knocked him out aswell.

I mean, it was a cosmic-level fight, and quite awesome to see - but most of that comic is blown out of proportion, feat-wise.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
And how decisive do you have Diana winning this fight? What do you mean?

Stormbreaker is a mystical artifact, and may have properties within it that may cancel out the lasso's effects, so Bill, or Thor for that matter may be highly resistant to it, or completely immune to its affects. There have been others that have resisted the lasso before. Konvikt for example. I just wanted to throw that out there. The lasso's effects are not written in stone for everyone.

The lasso has also effected high end mystic deities, though, such as Ares, Circe, and Hecate and has also effected Darkseid. Granted you have instances of it not working or people resisting, but for the most part, the people who have shown resistence or outright immunity either have no souls to manipulate/peer into are constructs of some kind or through weird plot device/PIS (Deathstroke) are "immune" to the truth and how it pertains to them.

I do think that while Bill wins this, is he's successfully encircled by the lasso, he's likely out of this match should Diana use its abilities against him.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Fair enough.

Do you see Diana taking a slim majority against Bill (ie. a tough fight for her) or a massive majority against Bill? Definitely a tough fight.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Bill for the majority. Diana's defenses will be tough for Bill to intially overcome, but his versatility and power will pull through in the end.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
She's helped towed Earth and the moon before, both with help and as such it's next to impossible to determine how much she contributed outside of "a lot of weight". She's helped lifted the Spectre who was described as weighing "eternity", which again, is unquantifiable, albeit a good feat of strength. These feats in of themselves don't put her beyond Bill in terms of strength, not based on his own feats and who he has matched or stalemated in pure strength (ie. Thor).

And while there are certainly posters who do dislike Superman for being "uber" or because he's DC, it's not a majority, and for every diehard anti-DC poster you have, there's an equally overzealous DC supporter. Which is why bringing up company bias is really irrelevant because we all know there's enough to go around, Marvel or DC. As someone who reads comics from both companies, Superman included, it's really tiring to hear this "Oh, there's some kind of KMC anti-Superman/DC movement" style of argument (not accusing you of saying this, btw) and attempting to paint the overall vibe of the forums as some place that holds some irrational grudge against the character and company he represents, when in reality, it's a handful of posters. And in the same breath, conviently ignoring or refusing to point out the sheer ludicrous of people who believe Superman solos Galactus or that he'll operate and use his speeds at levels never shown in comics and to argue otherwise is "hating Superman/DC." Case in point, there's zealots and biased and self-righteous posters representing both companies and whomever their favorite characters are. Thor, Hulk, Surfer, Superman, Flash, Green Lanterns, etc. It's everywhere.

Which of WW's strength feats surpass Thor? And even if she did have them, it's certainly not the norm, not based on her character.

Based on what is Diana going to hit someone a hundred times a second, much less anywhere close to lightspeed? Has she ever displayed this kind of speed or tactic in a comic book? If so, please, show me or tell me the issue; I'd genuinely appreciate it if Diana has done this. Further more, you're assuming, I don't know, Bill stands there and lets such a thing happen to him, which is pretty much downplaying him. It's debatable than Diana even possesses planetary striking power based on her feats - we can make guesses, but prove it? - whereas Bill does. Diana will block several of his attacks, sure, but he's going to hit here, either though melee, a hammer toss (which can go FTL as well as home on an opponent), massive AoE style attacks, BFRing to a realm/environment of his choosing, etc.

I believe what I'm saying because I've actually read an extraordinary amount of Wonder Woman comics and I'm pretty sure I have a pretty damn good handle on the character, and the idea she walks all over Bill for a massive majority is pretty unfounded.

Bill has far too many options for Diana to overcome with her advantages for the majority here.

See this is where we disagree, In Spirit.

A dumb character wouldn't do a certain tactic only because they are that dumb.
A smart character wouldn't do an easy to know tactic in a comic only because it would go against the plot, not because they are dumb or it isn't in their character. There is nothing in Superman's or WW's character mind to tell him that he/she shouldn't use super speed to win the fight if they thought it was necessary. They don't always use it IN COMICS because the writer controls them not to use it. If Superman or WW was a real living being and knew what he/she can do and had the actual intelligence he/she is portrayed to have in comics then there is no reason he/she wouldn't use speed, if he/she deemed it was necessary.

Bill doesn't know WW but WW knows Bill (because she knows Thor). WW is not dumb. If she were alive and existed then their would be no reason for her to not use her speed, knowing how powerful Bill is.

So for the billionth time, this is not about what will happen in a comic (where writer's job characters and create contradictions). This is about what will happen if the characters ACTUALLY EXISTED and they used REAL intelligence based off their actual portrayed intelligence from comics. That means Superman will fight and think like a gifted human, WW would fight and think like a gifted human as well. They will not fight like morons and not use speed on purpose and get their butts whipped. That would make no sense.

Lastly, there is no way to connect D.C. characters to Marvel characters other than natural feats (feats where the character perform against objects such as planets, tanks, etc.). This is the only way we know who is stronger. IMO, WW is not less than 1/3 of the strength of Superman. Even with 1/10 of Superman's strength she has proven to have planetary power. Both Bill and Diana can hurt each other, that is a fact. But for Bill to even have a chance to strike her he must use quick jab like strikes which are far weaker than pure slams. Thus his blows would be equal or less than the blows she would have on him. Putting skill and speed into play, she would definitely hit him more times and thus providing us with the outcome (she wins). Adding in the fact that she has several one shot options makes this fight almost a stomp in her favor.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
And while there are certainly posters who do dislike Superman for being "uber" or because he's DC, it's not a majority, and for every diehard anti-DC poster you have, there's an equally overzealous DC supporter. Which is why bringing up company bias is really irrelevant because we all know there's enough to go around, Marvel or DC. As someone who reads comics from both companies, Superman included, it's really tiring to hear this "Oh, there's some kind of KMC anti-Superman/DC movement" style of argument (not accusing you of saying this, btw) and attempting to paint the overall vibe of the forums as some place that holds some irrational grudge against the character and company he represents, when in reality, it's a handful of posters. And in the same breath, conviently ignoring or refusing to point out the sheer ludicrous of people who believe Superman solos Galactus or that he'll operate and use his speeds at levels never shown in comics and to argue otherwise is "hating Superman/DC." Case in point, there's zealots and biased and self-righteous posters representing both companies and whomever their favorite characters are. Thor, Hulk, Surfer, Superman, Flash, Green Lanterns, etc. It's everywhere.

there is a bigger Pro Marvel/Anti DC movement than the opposite on this forum, though. Is it all posters? No, of course not, and there is an anti-Marvel movement too. It's not as if both sides are equal, though.

Also, anyone saying Superman would take Galactus is an idiot.

Badabing and I have a list of people as long as my arm that we plan to get rid of at some point, and when we look at the reasons why, it's generally over-zealous, trolly Marvel bias or just plain ignorance for a good portion of them rather than the opposite.

Originally posted by -Pr-
there is a bigger Pro Marvel/Anti DC movement than the opposite on this forum, though. Is it all posters? No, of course not, and there is an anti-Marvel movement too. It's not as if both sides are equal, though.
I don't agree with statement personally.

I think its roughly equal.

Originally posted by Newjak
I don't agree with statement personally.

I think its roughly equal.

That's just because Trick is louder than most people.

Originally posted by -Pr-
That's just because Trick is louder than most people. He is very vocal, very very very vocal.

Originally posted by Newjak
He is very vocal, very very very vocal.

That he is. He's a lot more obvious about it than most people.

Honestly, if we're talking about people who will represent "their" character even illogically at times, sure, those are pretty close. But actual "i hate x character and want him to lose" comes more from the Marvel side than the DC one, imo.

Superman isn't the only one, but he seems to be the most common example.