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I have been seeing numerous of thread derailed because of this (I'm not going to lie, I was one of the peeps).

Who is faster?

All 3 of these character have been presented in hundreds if not 1000s of comics so there are and should be enough feats to back each person up.

No using another person feat to aid another person in this thread (Bill, Thor - Wolverine, Sabertooth, Spiderman, Venom).

Please don't resort to "since he fought character "a" that means that he can fight at light". If you claim this, please prove how fast that person was moving against character "b".

So is Thor faster than these 2 peeps?

This thread is about to go off because it will likely become about Wolverine vs Spider-Man speed, I don't believe they are the same speed myself.

It would be excellent if we had someone to vote on the outcome of this... like a mod.

Do you remember when Thor went back to Wundagore and Mongoose was ripping him a new one? I know you said not to do this but I am doing it anyway.

In a straight line race he is probably faster than them, but in a battle with them no he is not.

Edit: he is fast enough to land hits on Wolverine, but not spiderman.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
This thread is about to go off because it will likely become about Wolverine vs Spider-Man speed, I don't believe they are the same speed myself.

They are close in speed but this isn't about Spiderman vs Wolverine. This is about Thor being faster than Spiderman and Wolverine.

Thor is faster in both combat and straight line speed than both Wolverine and Spiderman. By a lot IMO to the point where it is stupid to even debate it.

Thor is faster (travel speed), they are quicker (combat speed)

Originally posted by PillarofOsiris
Thor is faster in both combat and straight line speed than both Wolverine and Spiderman. By a lot IMO to the point where it is stupid to even debate it.

Ok... let's start this off then

Maxtrix Wolverine.

He is at least 50 to 60 ft away. A guy shoot a bullet at him, he side steps the bullet and actually look at the bullet while it past and blitz the guy instantly from 50 ft away.


http://img152.imageshack.us/img152/8499/xmenv2133p03gm1.jpg

http://img337.imageshack.us/img337/6867/bulletsidestepkq1.jpg

Originally posted by SamZED
Thor is faster (travel speed), they are quicker (combat speed) That doesn't sound so bad. It would seem like Thor would be faster though, but he hasn't been portrayed as "leaps and bounds" beyond them in combat speed. Unless I missed something.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
This thread is about to go off because it will likely become about Wolverine vs Spider-Man speed, I don't believe they are the same speed myself.
And yet he match spiderman speed consistently while fight next to eachother and against. He also display such speeds against his own rogue who are all roughly around spidermans speed for the most part. Oh he then on top of that he match parker rogues speed as well.


People can keep dening it, but honestly it come to a point were it just words and the evidence is far to overwhealming.

Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan
And yet he match spiderman speed consistently while fight next to eachother and against. He also display such speeds against his own rogue who are all roughly around spidermans speed for the most part. Oh he then on top of that he match parker rogues speed as well.


People can keep dening it, but honestly it come to a point were it just words and the evidence is far to overwhealming.

I think Spiderman seems faster to me because of his agility.

Can't be judged fairly imo. Look at it from a powerset and playing field point of view. Martial artists operate in a very different way and are written in a way to up their offensive output to beyond a level capable by US the reader. This makes us look at them and say wow, that was a cool ass feat, did you see Cassy Cains bullet dance? Awsome feat for an MA/Street comic, you wouldn't find that type of feat for Silver Surfer. It's not that he isn't capable, but he just operates and is written in a different way. By feats Batman can go toe to toe with Spider-man. Deathstroke can go toe to toe with WonderWoman (for a given value of Toe to toe).

This is because they have a shared written style, cqc action orientated, skill orientated moreso than a High Herald.

It's not a fair comparison.

Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan
And yet he match spiderman speed consistently while fight next to eachother and against. He also display such speeds against his own rogue who are all roughly around spidermans speed for the most part. Oh he then on top of that he match parker rogues speed as well.


People can keep dening it, but honestly it come to a point were it just words and the evidence is far to overwhealming. He fights his own gallery and it looks about the same even though they are slower.

Then there's secret wars. Characters always "match" in a comic. When they are both big sellers.

I think of Wolverine and Spider-Man like Superman and Flash. Can Superman keep up with him? To an extent, but Flash gunning out is the man.

Originally posted by SamZED
Thor is faster (travel speed), they are quicker (combat speed)

this

though I do get Juk3n's point, I think in terms of a reasonable answer, sam is dead on

Originally posted by carver9
He is at least 50 to 60 ft away. A guy shoot a bullet at him, he side steps the bullet and actually look at the bullet while it past and blitz the guy instantly from 50 ft away.

...

are you saying that is an accurate representation of how fast wolverine is normally?

Originally posted by Juk3n
Can't be judged fairly imo. Look at it from a powerset and playing field point of view. Martial artists operate in a very different way and are written in a way to up their offensive output to beyond a level capable by US the reader. This makes us look at them and say wow, that was a cool ass feat, did you see Cassy Cains bullet dance? Awsome feat for an MA/Street comic, you wouldn't find that type of feat for Silver Surfer. It's not that he isn't capable, but he just operates and is written in a different way. By feats Batman can go toe to toe with Spider-man. Deathstroke can go toe to toe with WonderWoman (for a given value of Toe to toe).

This is because they have a shared written style, cqc action orientated, skill orientated moreso than a High Herald.

It's not a fair comparison.
same works in reverse to. Because they dont have the power out put that thor does, they don't have an opportunity to face individual like Silver Surfer, gladeator ect.

Originally posted by Juk3n
Can't be judged fairly imo. Look at it from a powerset and playing field point of view. Martial artists operate in a very different way and are written in a way to up their offensive output to beyond a level capable by US the reader. This makes us look at them and say wow, that was a cool ass feat, did you see Cassy Cains bullet dance? Awsome feat for an MA/Street comic, you wouldn't find that type of feat for Silver Surfer. It's not that he isn't capable, but he just operates and is written in a different way. By feats Batman can go toe to toe with Spider-man. Deathstroke can go toe to toe with WonderWoman (for a given value of Toe to toe).

This is because they have a shared written style, cqc action orientated, skill orientated moreso than a High Herald.

It's not a fair comparison.

I agree, to a point. What if you have a high Herald claiming that a street/meta is faster than him... how do you look at it then?

Bottom line: speed is hard to quantify in comics.

When Thor lost his powers, he didn't seem to have any trouble keeping up with Steve during their running battle against gunmen.

Writers just tend to lower the power/speed/IQ of top tier characters when they face street level people....if they didn't, the fights would't last a page.

Originally posted by carver9
Ok... let's start this off then

Maxtrix Wolverine.

He is at least 50 to 60 ft away. A guy shoot a bullet at him, he side steps the bullet and actually look at the bullet while it past and blitz the guy instantly from 50 ft away.


http://img152.imageshack.us/img152/8499/xmenv2133p03gm1.jpg

http://img337.imageshack.us/img337/6867/bulletsidestepkq1.jpg

Are you missing a scan? Because the description doesn't match up. I also disagree with Logan side stepping the bullet. It seems like he missed.

Originally posted by Hyperion Prime
Do you remember when Thor went back to Wundagore and Mongoose was ripping him a new one? I know you said not to do this but I am doing it anyway.

In a straight line race he is probably faster than them, but in a battle with them no he is not.

Edit: he is fast enough to land hits on Wolverine, but not spiderman.

Context bro.

When pitted against Thor or fighting a common foe together with Thor, Marvel will play up the weaker characters so as not to make them "useless" in the story.. One of those things played up is speed and quickness.. But when it's time for Thor to stop humoring the "mortals", his other worldly feats should speak for themselves.. It's just simple as that..

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
Bottom line: speed is hard to quantify in comics.



Which is why we see guys like Mongoose giving Thor fits and at the same time he's shown fast enough to catch Hermes by the ankle.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Are you missing a scan? Because the description doesn't match up. I also disagree with Logan side stepping the bullet. It seems like he missed.

I agree

however, even if we give carver the benefit of the doubt on interpretation, its a bulletdodging feat, and Wolverine, afaik, doesn't really have over ~supersonic speed feats

In fact, him rushing the guy as a blur and taking off his hand, before the shooter could notice, is a way, way, waaaaaaaaaaaay better speed feat

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
I think of Wolverine and Spider-Man like Superman and Flash. Can Superman keep up with him? To an extent, but Flash gunning out is the man. Kinda how I see it as well,

Originally posted by BigSid


Which is why we see guys like Mongoose giving Thor fits and at the same time he's shown fast enough to catch Hermes by the ankle. Especially in Marvel where you don't use numbers, hence why the never ending argument with speed on certain characters exist. They "seem" to be about as fast, but who is really faster? I go to characterization at this point.

Originally posted by inimalist
this

though I do get Juk3n's point, I think in terms of a reasonable answer, sam is dead on



...

are you saying that is an accurate representation of how fast wolverine is normally?

Possibly.

He has done things like this over 5 times. That enough for it to be a powerset don't you think?

http://img136.imageshack.us/img136/1990/energydodge2.jpg

Originally posted by carver9
I agree, to a point. What if you have a high Herald claiming that a street/meta is faster than him... how do you look at it then?

You'd have to quantify it. A statement isn't everything. Thor fights beings that move through hyperspace, but if Earth depended on him to save it, and the enemy was Wolverine..he'd lose because he isn't fast enough? Sounds bogus. Beta Ray bill fought Surfer AT hyperspeed (well, apparantly) and if you call Thor his equal, you have to assume he's faster than Logan and Pete all round by a long way.

But writer empathy is the strongest force in comics. Black Panthers armbar, and woverine out striking Thor..can they be considered the same? Put in place to fill panels? No one likes a 1 page comic.

Originally posted by inimalist
I agree

however, even if we give carver the benefit of the doubt on interpretation, its a bulletdodging feat, and Wolverine, afaik, doesn't really have over ~supersonic speed feats

In fact, him rushing the guy as a blur and taking off his hand, before the shooter could notice, is a way, way, waaaaaaaaaaaay better speed feat

I just think based on Logan's long history of just tanking bullets, it's far more likely the dude just missed. You can clearly see that the bullet grazed Logan. He also wasn't looking at the bullet when it flew by but looking back at the shooter.

Yea, he covers a decent amount of distance making it a good feat. Wolverine should be as fast a blur to humans if he wants to be. Enough feats to justify that.

Originally posted by Juk3n
You'd have to quantify it. A statement isn't everything. Thor fights beings that move through hyperspace, but if Earth depended on him to save it, and the enemy was Wolverine..he'd lose because he isn't fast enough? Sounds bogus. Beta Ray bill fought Surfer AT hyperspeed (well, apparantly) and if you call Thor his equal, you have to assume he's faster than Logan and Pete all round by a long way.

But writer empathy is the strongest force in comics. Black Panthers armbar, and woverine out striking Thor..can they be considered the same? Put in place to fill panels? No one likes a 1 page comic. ^

Exactly comics are made to sell, where is where characterization comes in

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
He fights his own gallery and it looks about the same even though they are slower.

Then there's secret wars. Characters always "match" in a comic.

I think of Wolverine and Spider-Man like Superman and Flash. Can Superman keep up with him? To an extent, but Flash gunning out is the man.
Actauly that not true at all. several of them have been suggested as fast before and almost all the ones who have superhuman stats have been stated to be as fast. Honestly think you just kinda came up with that to discredit wolverine matching spiderman and his rogues speed.


yea and what about it? Wolverine jumped straight up in the air at spidy who he never at contact with before and got hit. Fact you think that evidence to dismiss wolverien constantly matching spiderman is just .


Not even remotely close. Your pretty much trying to pretend there is the same gap between wolverine and spiderman as flash and superman? dude that straight up delusional. Facy. Yes I say fact becayse there is so much evidence to support my side of the arguement and almost nothing for yours.

Wolverine matches his feats

Wolverine matches him when they fought which was a number of times

Spiderman question his speed against Wolverine.

Wolverine match spiderman rogues speed and beaten the shit out most of them.

Spiderman foughten and been match by wolverines rogues in speed.

Wolverine even matches spiderman speed when the fight with eachother, numerous times in new x-men.

I trying to figure out how you came to the conclusion that superman and flash is comparable to the gap between wolverine and spiderman, it Bullshit will full thinking on your part truth. If that came off mean I am sorry.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Are you missing a scan? Because the description doesn't match up. I also disagree with Logan side stepping the bullet. It seems like he missed.



Context bro.

He was a blur... I don't care about the bullet... he pulled a Quicksilver.

Originally posted by Silent Master
When Thor lost his powers, he didn't seem to have any trouble keeping up with Steve during their running battle against gunmen.

Writers just tend to lower the power/speed/IQ of top tier characters when they face street level people....if they didn't, the fights would't last a page.

Or, it could be a case of writers just being that damn stupid.

Thor reduced to ~peak human-low meta would have ~peak human-low meta speed, yet Thor as a high end class one hundred suddenly can't move the weight of his body any faster than ~peak human-low meta?

Make no mistake, Thor rightfully SHOULD be able to dance around any street leveler, because of his strength. But its because of his strength that he is made (relatively) slow. blah.

Originally posted by carver9
Possibly.

He has done things like this over 5 times. That enough for it to be a powerset don't you think?

http://img136.imageshack.us/img136/1990/energydodge2.jpg

well, there is no way to quantify that feat

we have no idea how fast that energy is moving, so it really doesn't suggest that wolverine has reflexes that can react to things moving at close to the speed of sound

we do know how fast bullets move. and if your interpretation of the scan you posted is correct, Wolverine would have to, litterally, be comparably fast to a Classic Quicksilver (or am I wrong, I thought he was just around speed of sound fast...?).

Further, all heroes dodge bullets, and a huge number of them don't have comparable speed feats outside of that.

What the scans do show is that woverine is much faster than a normal human, probably enough so to call it a super-power, but certainly not fast enough to be a character who could legitimately dodge bullets.

also, 5 times for wolverine isn't much.... it would be, iirc, less than .1% of his appearances...

Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan
Actauly that not true at all. several of them have been suggested as fast before and almost all the ones who have superhuman stats have been stated to be as fast. Honestly think you just kinda came up with that to discredit wolverine matching spiderman and his rogues speed.


yea and what about it? Wolverine jumped straight up in the air at spidy who he never at contact with before and got hit. Fact you think that evidence to dismiss wolverien constantly matching spiderman is just .


Not even remotely close. Your pretty much trying to pretend there is the same gap between wolverine and spiderman as flash and superman? dude that straight up delusional. Facy. Yes I say fact becayse there is so much evidence to support my side of the arguement and almost nothing for yours.

Wolverine matches his feats

Wolverine matches him when they fought which was a number of times

Spiderman question his speed against Wolverine.

he match spiderman rogues speed and beaten the shit out most of them.

Spiderman foughten and been match by wolverines rogues in speed.

I trying to figure out how you came to the conclusion that superman and flash is comparable to the gap between wolverine and spiderman, it Bullshit will full thinking on your part truth.

Only ones off of the top of my head that are "as fast" are Venom and Carnage (who is faster). Not to mention he dodges Carnage without SS and is faster than Wolverine.

Batman, Wolverine, Robin, have "similar" speed feats. Doesn't make them as fast, Spider-Man's characterization is his speed. Not to mention he has better ones.

Wolverine said Spider-Man could break his neck, so what? Spider-Man always doubts himself.

He beat his bad guys? Again has nothing to do with speed and more to do with healing and plot devices. Ock, arguably Goblin, Venom, Carnage, Sandman, Hydroman would cream Wolverine on the forum.

I made a thread about this. The vast majority of the forum agreed, except for 3 members... hmmm.

The Superman and Flash thing was a similarity comparsion. The gap is bigger between Flash and Superman and absolute numbers since they are much faster, it's like 90 vs 150 and 10 billion vs 15 billion. Larger overall numbers but it got my point across.

At the end of the day speed is hard to quantify, which is proven by this never-ending argument.

Originally posted by Juk3n
You'd have to quantify it. A statement isn't everything. Thor fights beings that move through hyperspace, but if Earth depended on him to save it, and the enemy was Wolverine..he'd lose because he isn't fast enough? Sounds bogus. Beta Ray bill fought Surfer AT hyperspeed (well, apparantly) and if you call Thor his equal, you have to assume he's faster than Logan and Pete all round by a long way.

But writer empathy is the strongest force in comics. Black Panthers armbar, and woverine out striking Thor..can they be considered the same? Put in place to fill panels? No one likes a 1 page comic.

Why are you giving Thor Bills feat? Doesn't make sense.

Using the standard you presented, that would make Hulk a light speedster.

What? How?

Originally posted by carver9
Why are you giving Thor Bills feat? Doesn't make sense.

Using the standard you presented, that would make Hulk a light speedster.

Bill has the same properties as Thor powerset wise, that's why. What allows him to fight at translight speed is his Asgard originated powersource.

Originally posted by carver9
Why are you giving Thor Bills feat? Doesn't make sense.

Using the standard you presented, that would make Hulk a light speedster. I would have made this a "Thor vs High Street/Low Meta speed" thread.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
arguably Goblin... would cream Wolverine on the forum.

you can take "arguably" out of there

Originally posted by inimalist
you can take "arguably" out of there Yea, he can fly can't he?

Originally posted by inimalist
well, there is no way to quantify that feat

we have no idea how fast that energy is moving, so it really doesn't suggest that wolverine has reflexes that can react to things moving at close to the speed of sound

we do know how fast bullets move. and if your interpretation of the scan you posted is correct, Wolverine would have to, litterally, be comparably fast to a Classic Quicksilver (or am I wrong, I thought he was just around speed of sound fast...?).

Further, all heroes dodge bullets, and a huge number of them don't have comparable speed feats outside of that.

What the scans do show is that woverine is much faster than a normal human, probably enough so to call it a super-power, but certainly not fast enough to be a character who could legitimately dodge bullets.

also, 5 times for wolverine isn't much.... it would be, iirc, less than .1% of his appearances...

My point wasn't to put Wolverine on Quicksilver level, it was to show that his speed is superior to Thors and that he is a true speedster (when he wants to be).

How would you quantify this feat?

http://img13.imageshack.us/img13/7770/cyklopsdodge.jpg

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
Yea, he can fly can't he?

all of them can, yes

among the numerous other advantages...

Spider-man and Wolverine are faster than Thor. Hell, Daredevil and Batman are faster than Thor.

Originally posted by carver9
My point wasn't to put Wolverine on Quicksilver level, it was to show that his speed is superior to Thors and that he is a true speedster (when he wants to be).

How would you quantify this feat?

http://img13.imageshack.us/img13/7770/cyklopsdodge.jpg

in general, I'd imagine something akin to bulletdodging, where it is safe to infer that the writers are saying "look, wolverine is faster than cyclops", not necessarily "ok, back in issue 56 we said Cyclops' eye beams are X mph, therefore this means wolverine is Y fast"

Originally posted by CosmicComet
Bill has the same properties as Thor powerset wise, that's why. What allows him to fight at translight speed is his Asgard originated powersource.

Bill is also a cyborg which means that he is "different" from Thor.

Bill and Thor does not share feats... its just that simple. They are not the same and they are physically different in so many ways that its pointless for them to even be used in the same sentence.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Spider-man and Wolverine are faster than Thor. Hell, Daredevil and Batman are faster than Thor.

I forgot. You think Thor's at his very best, like what, peak human? Lawlz.

Originally posted by carver9
Bill is also a cyborg which means that he is "different" from Thor.

Bill and Thor does not share feats... its just that simple. They are not the same and they are physically different in so many ways that its pointless for them to even be used in the same sentence.

Haha what the f*ck? No one's going to be using Bill's feats for Thor -unless it's Skrank or something- but please don't try and pretend Bill's cyborg form lends him some sort of advantage over Thor physically. Heat has less negative effect on Bill, that is his one and only advantage over Thor. His not faster, his not stronger, nor is he a better fighter. So stop with the bullshit.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Spider-man and Wolverine are faster than Thor. Hell, Daredevil and Batman are faster than Thor.

lol

Originally posted by CosmicComet
Bill has the same properties as Thor powerset wise, that's why. What allows him to fight at translight speed is his Asgard originated powersource.

When I see Beta Ray Bill one shot Thor after Thor gets a free hit from behind....well then I'll share those sentiments.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
I forgot. You think Thor's at his very best, like what, peak human? Lawlz.

I forgot, you live in a fantasy realm where Thor actually has speed feats. Top end streets have noticeably better speed feats than Thor. Speedwise, Thor is Hulk, and Spider-man would dance around him like a statue.

Originally posted by inimalist
in general, I'd imagine something akin to bulletdodging, where it is safe to infer that the writers are saying "look, wolverine is faster than cyclops", not necessarily "ok, back in issue 56 we said Cyclops' eye beams are X mph, therefore this means wolverine is Y fast"

Wow...

Ok, what does this mean then?

http://img149.imageshack.us/img149/1889/captang29.jpg

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
I forgot. You think Thor's at his very best, like what, peak human? Lawlz.



Haha what the f*ck? No one's going to be using Bill's feats for Thor -unless it's Skrank or something- but please don't try and pretend Bill's cyborg form lends him some sort of advantage over Thor physically. Heat has less negative effect on Bill, that is his one and only advantage over Thor. His not faster, his not stronger, nor is he a better fighter. So stop with the bullshit.

Then why bring up the Surfer and Bill argument then. When Thor replicates Bill feat, then you can use it as a speed feat.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Spider-man and Wolverine are faster than Thor. Hell, Daredevil and Batman are faster than Thor.

Doesn't seem weird that the God of thunder and lightning has combat speed and reaction times lower than any b-list street leveller? That he is super in every single catagory EXCEPT reaction time? And that doesn't sound bogus?

But i wont argue, this isn't about what he SHOULD be like, it's about what his FEATS say he is like. So for the Record Cassandra Cain is Faster than Silver Surfer just because, and she is faster than wonder woman because dancing in gunfire > deflecting with yur hands (wrists)?

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Spider-man and Wolverine are faster than Thor. Hell, Daredevil and Batman are faster than Thor. Stop.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
Only ones off of the top of my head that are "as fast" are Venom and Carnage (who is faster). Not to mention he dodges Carnage without SS and is faster than Wolverine.


Both lizard and Puma have been stated as faster and vermin been stated as fast.



Wolverine has foughten and dodge carnage to. He also foughten venom 3 times. eddie twice and both times not only match his speed but stalemated him.






Originally posted by Tha C-Master
, Wolverine, Robin, have "similar" speed feats. Doesn't make them as fast, Spider-Man's characterization is his speed. Not to mention he has better ones.
/B]
This is just 100% wrong and founded upon your ignorance of wolverine. fact. Wolverine is a superhuman. He not some human with crazy feats. He is superhuman been stated implied and referenced numerous times.

Yea spiderman thing is his speed yes, and who was wolverine designed after again? oh that right spiderman, Oh wait what is one of his main attributes and was show cased he his first appearances? speed.

Spiderman does not have better ones at all. I play this game with you and you have never been able to prove that.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
said Spider-Man could break his neck, so what? Spider-Man always doubts himself.
/B]

what does wolverine saying spiderman can break his neck have to do with speed?

Your ability to dismiss everything wolverine does is astounding.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
beat his bad guys? Again has nothing to do with speed and more to do with healing and plot devices.
oh so now he wins becuase of plot device? And again your wrong. Why do you state things as fact when you clearly dont read any of his comics?


, Originally posted by Tha C-Master
Goblin, Venom, Carnage, Sandman, Hydroman would cream Wolverine on the forum.
/B]

They would all beat Spiderman do asside from Goblin, who would not beat wolverine either.


Omega red would beast parker as would other of wolverines rogue..


Originally posted by Tha C-Master
I made a thread about this. The vast majority of the forum agreed, except for 3 members... hmmm.


Am I supose to care what you and some random kmc came up with ina thread I never went it? yea I dont at all. And you have no idea what your talking about. Honestly you dont read wolverine at all and yet you make these statemates as if your some authority on the matter, and your not at all. I dont pull this shit ever and I own thousands I spiderman comics.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
Superman and Flash thing was a similarity comparsion. The gap is bigger between Flash and Superman and absolute numbers since they are much faster, it's like 90 vs 150 and 10 billion vs 15 billion. Larger overall numbers but it got my point across.
your point wrong. There is no significant gap in there speed. You can pretend all you like but it just not true.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
the end of the day speed is hard to quantify, which is proven by this never-ending argument.
Not really at all. You just dismiss everything and anything wolverine does. But fact is if you looked at what he done with spiderman against spiderman by him self against spidermans rogues and vice versa it is extremely easy to tell that they are very close in speed.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
I forgot, you live in a fantasy realm where Thor actually has speed feats. Top end streets have noticeably better speed feats than Thor. Speedwise, Thor is Hulk, and Spider-man would dance around him like a statue.

Thinking that Thor has speed feats means he lives in a fantasy world? This coming from someone who just said that Batman is faster than Thor?

http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Thor%20Stats/ThorSuperspeed10MarvelTeam-Up26.jpg

http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Thor%20Stats/ThorSuperspeed03JIM98.jpg

Originally posted by BigSid


Which is why we see guys like Mongoose giving Thor fits and at the same time he's shown fast enough to catch Hermes by the ankle.

i AM GLAD YOU REMEMBER mONGOOSE GIVING HIM A HARD TIME. i THOUGHT i WAS THE ONLY ONE WHO REMEMBERED THAT.

Its all about feats. Show Wondy surpassing that then you would have an argument. Same with Thor, show some consistency on his end as well and it would aid on this topic.

One thing though S-Rank. I know we can't place a good measure on Thor's combat speed since he doesn't rely on it the same as Lower level characters. But does implying he's slower than peak human because of his lack of "feats" seem fair?

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
I forgot, you live in a fantasy realm where Thor actually has speed feats. Top end streets have noticeably better speed feats than Thor. Speedwise, Thor is Hulk, and Spider-man would dance around him like a statue.
Do you then think that Thor and Hulk would be absolutely helpless against the likes of Superman in a physical encounter?

Originally posted by inimalist
you can take "arguably" out of there
Please tell me what green goblin would do to win the match?

Originally posted by PillarofOsiris
Thinking that Thor has speed feats means he lives in a fantasy world? This coming from someone who just said that Batman is faster than Thor?

http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Thor%20Stats/ThorSuperspeed10MarvelTeam-Up26.jpg

http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Thor%20Stats/ThorSuperspeed03JIM98.jpg

Are these suppose to help prove a point?

Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan
Actauly that not true at all. several of them have been suggested as fast before and almost all the ones who have superhuman stats have been stated to be as fast. Honestly think you just kinda came up with that to discredit wolverine matching spiderman and his rogues speed.


yea and what about it? Wolverine jumped straight up in the air at spidy who he never at contact with before and got hit. Fact you think that evidence to dismiss wolverien constantly matching spiderman is just .


Not even remotely close. Your pretty much trying to pretend there is the same gap between wolverine and spiderman as flash and superman? dude that straight up delusional. Facy. Yes I say fact becayse there is so much evidence to support my side of the arguement and almost nothing for yours.

Wolverine matches his feats

Wolverine matches him when they fought which was a number of times

Spiderman question his speed against Wolverine.

Wolverine match spiderman rogues speed and beaten the shit out most of them.

Spiderman foughten and been match by wolverines rogues in speed.

Wolverine even matches spiderman speed when the fight with eachother, numerous times in new x-men.

I trying to figure out how you came to the conclusion that superman and flash is comparable to the gap between wolverine and spiderman, it Bullshit will full thinking on your part truth. If that came off mean I am sorry. Im sorry DD, but imo you're jumping to conlusions when you bring up Spider-man doubting his speed. As been mentioned Logan admitted that Spider-man can break his neck. Twice now. But using that as an argument would be like me saying that Spider-man can see better in the dark than Wolverine because there was this one time when Spider-man saw him coming in the dark tunnel and Logan didnt. Heck, using evidence I can build a case that Parker is smarter than Reed Richards. And I could present lots of proofs from various books of dirrect comparison of their intellects with Parker being on top, I really can. But that wont make him smarter. What im saying is - one could probably argue that Batgirl is faster than Spider-man using same old evidence. But there are more point we have to concider. Now when it comes down to comparing street levelers speed I personally look at: overall feats (and I really do believe that there are some he wont be able to match), 1 on 1 fights and speed display against other characters. Now feats and enounters have been debated to death so ill explain what I mean by showings against other characters. For example - while I see Wolverine sh!tstomp Domino in a fight, I dont see him dance around her attacks like Spider-man. Or avoiding Sandman in a 10x10 foot metal room. Or dance around Deadpool's sword with ease, that kind of thing. And last but imo the most important argument (think ive mentioned it before) - Spider-man is not as experienced in fighting as Wolverine or Daredevil, Deadpool etc. He doesnt have the MA skills they have to keep him alive in fights, yet he survived (not counting PIS) as much crap as the other guys, and it would take either MA skills he doesnt have or a (maybe not a big one but still) speed advantage.

Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan
Both lizard and Puma have been stated as faster and vermin been stated as fast.



Wolverine has foughten and dodge carnage to. He also foughten venom 3 times. eddie twice and both times not only match his speed but stalemated him.







This is just 100% wrong and founded upon your ignorance of wolverine. fact. Wolverine is a superhuman. He not some human with crazy feats. He is superhuman been stated implied and referenced numerous times.

Yea spiderman thing is his speed yes, and who was wolverine designed after again? oh that right spiderman, Oh wait what is one of his main attributes and was show cased he his first appearances? speed.

Spiderman does not have better ones at all. I play this game with you and you have never been able to prove that.



what does wolverine saying spiderman can break his neck have to do with speed?

Your ability to dismiss everything wolverine does is astounding.


oh so now he wins becuase of plot device? And again your wrong. Why do you state things as fact when you clearly dont read any of his comics?


,

They would all beat Spiderman do asside from Goblin, who would not beat wolverine either.


Omega red would beast parker as would other of wolverines rogue..





Am I supose to care what you and some random kmc came up with ina thread I never went it? yea I dont at all. And you have no idea what your talking about. Honestly you dont read wolverine at all and yet you make these statemates as if your some authority on the matter, and your not at all. I dont pull this shit ever and I own thousands I spiderman comics.


your point wrong. There is no significant gap in there speed. You can pretend all you like but it just not true.


Not really at all. You just dismiss everything and anything wolverine does. But fact is if you looked at what he done with spiderman against spiderman by him self against spidermans rogues and vice versa it is extremely easy to tell that they are very close in speed.

Where was this? Spider-Man was stated to be 40x faster than a human.

It's all based on your hatred of Spider-Man, Wolverine was never "stated" as superhumanly fast, you just pick and choose feats that you want and proceed to bash and flame. Don't tell me what characters I do and don't read. I read a variety of characters in many different media, and many different books. I spend more time reading things than anyone here. One of my main hobbies. The fact that the only people who argue this are Wolverine fa... supporters speak volumes.

Who said anything about Rogues beating characters, you brought it up as if it had something to do with speed, that is known as a red herring.

You did go in that thread, and you and your friends tried desperately to "prove" Wolverine's speed, which just came down to making excuses about Spider-Man's feats lol. Then you came on my site and made feats up, I remember that too. I called you out on it and you left.


You're trying to attack me instead of my argument just like I knew would happen, and you're getting upset. My point was speed is hard to quanitfy. If you, jinzin, carver, and srank think Wolverine is much faster, that is fine and you are welcome to, most just disagree. As do I.
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=443877

I guess the majority of the forum doesn't read Wolverine. Nice try though.

My Superman/ Flash analogy holds true. Comparable in some ways, but not completely in high gear.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
One thing though S-Rank. I know we can't place a good measure on Thor's combat speed since he doesn't rely on it the same as Lower level characters. But does implying he's slower than peak human because of his lack of "feats" seem fair?
Well that fine for the peak humans, because wolverine the superman has been stated as faster.

He also stomp vermin, lizard and puma while poisoned and he did so by utilizing his speed and superior skills.


You still think he a peak-human I know it.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
I forgot, you live in a fantasy realm where Thor actually has speed feats. Top end streets have noticeably better speed feats than Thor. Speedwise, Thor is Hulk, and Spider-man would dance around him like a statue.

Haha, this is cute. Hilarious, idiotic, and delusional but cute.

How on earth one could reach the conclusion that Thor doesn't even have super human levels of speed is mind boggling. It's also downright trolling as I've without a doubt posted numerous super human feats including the narration actually telling us Thor is moving at super human speed but whatever.

For the record, Thor is faster than the Hulk. That was made clear pretty early on.

why are Logan and SM being classed together, not like they are a package deal.
Saying they are the same speed doesn't make it so.

SM is and always will be faster.
He has superhuman speed as a power. he has superhuman strength>>Logan's that allows him to move easier.

Originally posted by Juk3n
Doesn't seem weird that the God of thunder and lightning has combat speed and reaction times lower than any b-list street leveller? That he is super in every single catagory EXCEPT reaction time? And that doesn't sound bogus?

But i wont argue, this isn't about what he SHOULD be like, it's about what his FEATS say he is like. So for the Record Cassandra Cain is Faster than Silver Surfer just because, and she is faster than wonder woman because dancing in gunfire > deflecting with yur hands (wrists)?

Of course it seems weird, but that's how it is and it's been that way for 50 years. Lack of speed feats is a problem that plagues many of Marvel's top tiers, and I don't believe it is my job (or yours) to a character the benefit of the doubt and assume they must be fast because they happen to be powerful in every other way. If the Editorial staff at Marvel wants me to believe that Thor is capable of great combat speed, then they need to depict him using it on panel. There is a pretty obvious difference in speed between Spider-man and Thor. Compare their fights with Absorbing Man and tell me you believe Thor's speed is anywhere close to Spider-mans.

I believe both WW and Surfer have FTL combat speed feats, so that comparison isn't apt.

Originally posted by PillarofOsiris
Thinking that Thor has speed feats means he lives in a fantasy world? This coming from someone who just said that Batman is faster than Thor?

http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Thor%20Stats/ThorSuperspeed10MarvelTeam-Up26.jpg

http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Thor%20Stats/ThorSuperspeed03JIM98.jpg

Is that all you got?

Look at this sh**.

http://img182.imageshack.us/img182/3725/speedbarvw6.jpg

Originally posted by carver9
Then why bring up the Surfer and Bill argument then. When Thor replicates Bill feat, then you can use it as a speed feat.

I didn't bring it up. And for the record, whatever Bill does, it's a pretty safe bet Thor can accomplish if not surpass it.

Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan
Well that fine for the peak humans, because wolverine the superman has been stated as faster.

He also stomp vermin, lizard and puma while poisoned and he did so by utilizing his speed and superior skills.


You still think he a peak-human I know it. I was talking about his comment about Batman.

I said Wolverine was enhanced speed. He is stated to be in great shape and ability for a man his age and size blah blah blah... but I think he's enhanced by his "powers" and his strength by his skeleton.

I already said that before. You just hate me because I'm black. Lol.

Originally posted by batdude123
Are these suppose to help prove a point?

Are you trolling, or are you just plain stupid? He said Thor has no speed feats. Those are two speed feats. Do I really need to post 20 speed feats? I could have posted one and made my point.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
One thing though S-Rank. I know we can't place a good measure on Thor's combat speed since he doesn't rely on it the same as Lower level characters. But does implying he's slower than peak human because of his lack of "feats" seem fair?

I'm not going to give a character the benefit of doubt for no reason. If Daredevil has better reflex feats than Thor, than in my mind he is faster. Simple. Open and shut case.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
I'm not going to give a character the benefit of doubt for no reason. If Daredevil has better reflex feats than Thor, than in my mind he is faster. Simple. Open and shut case. Understandable, but does someone like SS and Thor really rely on those abilities as much?

Originally posted by ankur29
why are Logan and SM being classed together, not like they are a package deal.
Saying they are the same speed doesn't make it so.

SM is and always will be faster.
He has superhuman speed as a power. he has superhuman strength>>Logan's that allows him to move easier.

I didn't make this thread to prove that Spiderman and Wolvy are equals. If you think Spiderman is faster... I'm not arguing against that. I want proof that Thor is faster than both Wolverine AND Spiderman, even if you don't think Wolvy is faster than Spidey.

Originally posted by SamZED
Im sorry DD, but imo you're jumping to conlusions when you bring up Spider-man doubting his speed. As been mentioned Logan admitted that Spider-man can break his neck. Twice now. But using that as an argument would be like me saying that Spider-man can see better in the dark than Wolverine because there was this one time when Spider-man saw him coming in the dark tunnel and Logan didnt. Heck, using evidence I can build a case that Parker is smarter than Reed Richards. And I could present lots of proofs from various books of dirrect comparison of their intellects with Parker being on top, I really can. But that wont make him smarter. What im saying is - one could probably argue that Batgirl is faster than Spider-man using same old evidence. But there are more point we have to concider. Now when it comes down to comparing street levelers speed I personally look at: overall feats (and I really do believe that there are some he wont be able to match), 1 on 1 fights and speed display against other characters. Now feats and enounters have been debated to death so ill explain what I mean by showings against other characters. For example - while I see Wolverine sh!tstomp Domino in a fight, I dont see him dance around her attacks like Spider-man. Or avoiding Sandman in a 10x10 foot metal room. Or dance around Deadpool's sword with ease, that kind of thing. And last but imo the most important argument (think ive mentioned it before) - Spider-man is not as experienced in fighting as Wolverine or Daredevil, Deadpool etc. He doesnt have the MA skills they have to keep him alive in fights, yet he survived (not counting PIS) as much crap as the other guys, and it would take either MA skills he doesnt have or a (maybe not a big one but still) speed advantage.
I try to educate some one on the fact that wolverine is a superhuman and that there is not significant gap in speed like there is between superman and flash.

what about that pissed you off enough for such a long post? I mean do I really need to read it or did you just assume I argueing something else?

Originally posted by carver9
Is that all you got?

Look at this sh**.

http://img182.imageshack.us/img182/3725/speedbarvw6.jpg

So MOVING faster than some bullets, is a better feat than ACTUALLY BUILDING a trench faster than human eyes can follow? Seems to me that Thor's task was much more complex than the scan of Wolverine you posted. Also it doesn't bode well for you that Wolverine sneak attacked Thor from behind once and Thor was still able to react to him quite easily.

Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan
I try to educate some one on the fact that wolverine is a superman and that he has similar speed to spiderman.

I have no desire to read this. why are you argueing with me? Wolverine is Superman now? Wow.

Wolverine has Super healing, enhanced everything else.

Why are you arguing with me? I said from the beginning it would go off topic, you disagreed with what I said and pounced on me. I know I'm black but give peace a chance...

Originally posted by PillarofOsiris
So MOVING faster than some bullets, is a better feat than ACTUALLY BUILDING a trench faster than human eyes can follow? Seems to me that Thor's task was much more complex than the scan of Wolverine you posted. Also it doesn't bode well for you that Wolverine sneak attacked Thor from behind once and Thor was still able to react to him quite easily.

Ok, Wolverine completely vanished in that scan. I never said that Thor couldn't move faster than human eyes but again, his feats aren't on Wolvys level.

I know you just didn't bring up a comic where Thor admitted Wolverine was faster?

Show me some "up to date" speed feats from Thor if he is faster than Wolvy (even though the classic stuff you showed isn't even comparable to what Wolvy has done).

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
Understandable, but does someone like SS and Thor really rely on those abilities as much?

It isn't my place to decide if a character isn't demonstrating an ability because "he doesn't rely on that power," or because he simply lacks the ability. Frankly, how a character should be depicted is completely irrelevant. The only thing that matters is how they are depicted. If next week Thor read an entire library worth of books in a second and had an FTL conversation with Quicksilver, I would say "About damn time!" But until he does, he can't. This isn't a fan-fic forum, we are debating using feats that have actually occurred, not speculating on theoretical abilities that have never been demonstrated.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
There is a pretty obvious difference in speed between Spider-man and Thor. Compare their fights with Absorbing Man and tell me you believe Thor's speed is anywhere close to Spider-mans.

http://i989.photobucket.com/albums/af17/RageOfOlympus/Thor/ThorvsAbsorbingMan31.jpg
http://i989.photobucket.com/albums/af17/RageOfOlympus/Thor/ThorvsAbsorbingMan32.jpg
http://i989.photobucket.com/albums/af17/RageOfOlympus/Thor/ThorvsAbsorbingMan34.jpg

But that doesn't count because there were no blurry afterimages right? People seem to confuse Thor's unwillingness to use a lot of his abilities with him straight up lacking them. Just as he limits Mjolnir, he limits himself physically. He enjoys fighting opponents at their level; this was the case as far back as Kirby's run. He has his low showings but so does everyone.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
It isn't my place to decide if a character isn't demonstrating an ability because "he doesn't rely on that power," or because he simply lacks the ability. Frankly, how a character should be depicted is completely irrelevant. The only thing that matters is how they are depicted. If next week Thor read an entire library worth of books in a second and had an FTL conversation with Quicksilver, I would say "About damn time!" But until he does, he can't. This isn't a fan-fic forum, we are debating using feats that have actually occurred, not speculating on theoretical abilities that have never been demonstrated. Understandable to some extent. If Spider-Man flew unassisted into space with no history of doing so I would discard it.


Lucifer not needing to "dodge" someone in a fight doesn't mean he has less reflexes though, where do we draw the line?

street and low meta levelers dodge bullets mostly through anticipation.

Originally posted by PillarofOsiris
So MOVING faster than some bullets, is a better feat than ACTUALLY BUILDING a trench faster than human eyes can follow? Seems to me that Thor's task was much more complex than the scan of Wolverine you posted. Also it doesn't bode well for you that Wolverine sneak attacked Thor from behind once and Thor was still able to react to him quite easily.

Thor can lift thousands of tons, and crack planets... how many hammer swings do you think it took him to dig a trench?

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
I was talking about his comment about Batman.

I said Wolverine was enhanced speed. He is stated to be in great shape and ability for a man his age and size blah blah blah... but I think he's enhanced by his "powers" and his strength by his skeleton.


**** it, if you dont even know this little abouit him, it pointless.

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
street and low meta levelers dodge bullets mostly through anticipation. And by "rule of cool".

They aim dodge. None of them should dodge the actual bullet. Spider-Man can at a distance due to his SS though, but he shouldn't just dodge on on the path of him already.Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan
**** it, if you dont even know this little abouit him, it pointless. You're right I'm a fool. Don't waste your time trying to teach me.

If I remember the forum pegged him as peak human before.

I think enhanced is beyond human, but I wouldn't peg him as "casual superhuman".

All subjective wot wot.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
Bottom line: speed is hard to quantify in comics.

This.

Thor's all over the map. He has feats of (combat) speed that are faster than the human eye can follow, and also the Mongoose/Spider-Man feats (though, to be fair, at least the Spider-Man bad feat was Masterson...not sure about Mongoose).

As for the bullet thing, silly as it may seem, both Wolverine and SM have bullet-dodging feats after the bullet was fired.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
Wolverine is Superman now? Wow.

Wolverine has Super healing, enhanced everything else.

Why are you arguing with me? I said from the beginning it would go off topic, you disagreed with what I said and pounced on me. I know I'm black but give peace a chance...
iHe superhuman.

Not enhance, superhuman..



dont worry becuase I answer the pick mess of a post next.

^About Masterson, I don't think there is any reason for the Odinson to have greater raw reaction speed than Masteron Thor.

I just call that a low feat for Thor altogether regardless of whether it was Masterson or not.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
http://i989.photobucket.com/albums/af17/RageOfOlympus/Thor/ThorvsAbsorbingMan31.jpg
http://i989.photobucket.com/albums/af17/RageOfOlympus/Thor/ThorvsAbsorbingMan32.jpg
http://i989.photobucket.com/albums/af17/RageOfOlympus/Thor/ThorvsAbsorbingMan34.jpg

But that doesn't count because there were no blurry afterimages right? People seem to confuse Thor's unwillingness to use a lot of his abilities with him straight up lacking them. Just as he limits Mjolnir, he limits himself physically. He enjoys fighting opponents at their level; this was the case as far back as Kirby's run. He has his low showings but so does everyone.

http://img508.imageshack.us/img508/3615/34op.jpg

Compare and contrast. Thor is faster than Absorbing Man, and the same way Ali was faster than some of his other Heavy Weight opponents. Spider-man is faster than Absorbing Man in the way one person is faster than another person who happens to be completely encased in concrete.

Originally posted by Digi
This.

Thor's all over the map. He has feats of (combat) speed that are faster than the human eye can follow, and also the Mongoose/Spider-Man feats (though, to be fair, at least the Spider-Man bad feat was Masterson...not sure about Mongoose).

As for the bullet thing, silly as it may seem, both Wolverine and SM have bullet-dodging feats after the bullet was fired.

This is what I was trying to say.

Spider-Man should be doing that with his SS, the other characters just aren't fast enough. This is where forum logic kicks in and ignores jobbing. Unless comic bullets are slower...

(Though that would explain everything).bangin

Originally posted by carver9
Ok, Wolverine completely vanished in that scan. I never said that Thor couldn't move faster than human eyes but again, his feats aren't on Wolvys level.

I know you just didn't bring up a comic where Thor admitted Wolverine was faster?

Show me some "up to date" speed feats from Thor if he is faster than Wolvy (even though the classic stuff you showed isn't even comparable to what Wolvy has done).

Thor did far, far more in his scan, I think that more than makes up for him only moving "almost" faster than the mortal eye can see...rather than faster.

That doesn't even get into the fact that his scan was during the day, while Wolverine's was in a bar...places that aren't known for having great lighting.

Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan
iHe superhuman.

Not enhance, superhuman..



dont worry becuase I answer the pick mess of a post next.

Lol he changed his mind. He's still mad at me.

It doesn't really matter. It proves my point.

1. This thread was going to derail like this.
2. Speed is hard to quantify in comics.

Wolverine isn't Superman. Prove it.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
And by "rule of cool".

They aim dodge. None of them should dodge the actual bullet. Spider-Man can at a distance due to his SS though, but he shouldn't just dodge on on the path of him already. You're right I'm a fool. Don't waste your time trying to teach me.

If I remember the forum pegged him as peak human before.

I think enhanced is beyond human, but I wouldn't peg him as "casual superhuman".

All subjective wot wot.
By pegg you mean make complelely up then yes.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
http://i989.photobucket.com/albums/af17/RageOfOlympus/Thor/ThorvsAbsorbingMan31.jpg
http://i989.photobucket.com/albums/af17/RageOfOlympus/Thor/ThorvsAbsorbingMan32.jpg
http://i989.photobucket.com/albums/af17/RageOfOlympus/Thor/ThorvsAbsorbingMan34.jpg

But that doesn't count because there were no blurry afterimages right? People seem to confuse Thor's unwillingness to use a lot of his abilities with him straight up lacking them. Just as he limits Mjolnir, he limits himself physically. He enjoys fighting opponents at their level; this was the case as far back as Kirby's run. He has his low showings but so does everyone.

Its a speed feat and I never said he was slow but I would LOVE to see something like this while he is fighting.

http://img134.imageshack.us/img134/7895/x235go7.png

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
Understandable to some extent. If Spider-Man flew unassisted into space with no history of doing so I would discard it.


Lucifer not needing to "dodge" someone in a fight doesn't mean he has less reflexes though, where do we draw the line?

I have no trouble believing that Thor is theoretically capable of speeds equal to Superman, but I also believe theory crafting and baseless fan speculation have no place on KMC. I don't care what a character might be able to do in the future, I care what a character has done, and Thor hasn't shown himself to be as fast as top tier streets like Spider-man. That applies to all characters.

Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan
By pegg you mean make complelely up then yes. Where was he stated as a high level superhuman, refresh my memory master.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
http://img508.imageshack.us/img508/3615/34op.jpg

Compare and contrast. Thor is faster than Absorbing Man, and the same way Ali was faster than some of his other Heavy Weight opponents. Spider-man is faster than Absorbing Man in the way one person is faster than another person who happens to be completely encased in concrete.
It's like I'm psychic:
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
But that doesn't count because there were no blurry afterimages right?

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
I have no trouble believing that Thor is theoretically capable of speeds equal to Superman, but I also believe theory crafting and baseless fan speculation have no place on KMC. I don't care what a character might be able to do in the future, I care what a character has done, and Thor has shown himself to be as fast as top tier streets like Spider-man. That applies to all characters. So you're saying he's shown to be slower or he just hasn't shown anything? That's what I'm asking.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
Yea, he can fly can't he?

He doesn't have unlimited ammo, though. And Wolverine doesn't have to tank every pumpkin bomb, he can evade them.

Originally posted by Silent Master
Thor did far, far more in his scan, I think that more than makes up for him only moving "almost" faster than the mortal eye can see...rather than faster.

That doesn't even get into the fact that his scan was during the day, while Wolverine's was in a bar...places that aren't known for having great lighting.

The lighting had nothing to do with Wolverine vanishing during mid shot. Then his back was turned the entire time so he basically jumped of during the time they pressed the trigger.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
It's like I'm psychic:

http://cache.gawker.com/assets/images/comment/8/2011/04/d7f207d8f34f0638ac8ae78b1ff46ef8/340x.gif

Do you really need someone to explain the difference between narrowly beating an opponent to a punch, and being depicted as stationary while an opponent dances around said stationary characters? Really? REALLY?

So sad.

Originally posted by PillarofOsiris
Are you trolling, or are you just plain stupid? He said Thor has no speed feats. Those are two speed feats. Do I really need to post 20 speed feats? I could have posted one and made my point.

Pull out your bloody rag, replace it, take 10 deep breaths, then come back to your computer.

....

That's better, now isn't it?

Now then, in regards to Thor's speed, if you were trying to show that Thor is faster than Wolverine/Spider-man, or hell, even Batman, with those two scans, you failed. He has much better feats to choose from, so try again.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
It's like I'm psychic:

AM was a statue to Spiderman.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
So you're saying he's shown to be slower or he just hasn't shown anything? That's what I'm asking.

I'm saying he is depicted as being slower, and I believe it is an intentional decision by Marvel's Editorial Staff to keep Thor shackled to the Hulk's level.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
He doesn't have unlimited ammo, though. And Wolverine doesn't have to tank every pumpkin bomb, he can evade them. He has more stuff to contend with, I'd give him the slight advantage, as off topic as this discussion is.

Originally posted by carver9
The lighting had nothing to do with Wolverine vanishing during mid shot. Then his back was turned the entire time so he basically jumped of during the time they pressed the trigger.

Lack of light makes people harder to track, which would work in Wolverine's favor.

However, that was only an afterthought...my main point was that Thor did far more in his scan than simply move a few feet.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
I'm saying he is depicted as being slower, and I believe it is an intentional decision by Marvel's Editorial Staff to keep Thor shackled to the Hulk's level. Ok, it was just that I read you say he is slower because he "lacks" the feats, as in he doesn't have enough or any. If that was what you were saying I didn't think it was fair, but I guess you meant something else.

Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan
I try to educate some one on the fact that wolverine is a superhuman and that there is not significant gap in speed like there is between superman and flash.

what about that pissed you off enough for such a long post? I mean do I really need to read it or did you just assume I argueing something else? lol no. sorry if it seemed like im pissed off or trying to attack. Was not my intent. Dont think that Superman/Flash comparison can be taken literally. That'd be impossible to count.
Again, sorry.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
http://cache.gawker.com/assets/images/comment/8/2011/04/d7f207d8f34f0638ac8ae78b1ff46ef8/340x.gif

Do you really need someone to explain the difference between narrowly beating an opponent to a punch, and being depicted as stationary while an opponent dances around said stationary characters? Really? REALLY?

So sad.

Haha, it's like you didn't even look at the scans. Thor wasn't barely beating him to the punch, he was f*cking wrecking him: "How can I fight 'Im? He's everywhere at once!!"

But because Thor didn't do a flip or leave some blurry lines it's apparently not impressive.

This is sad? I'm not the one who took the stance that Thor is at best peak human in speed and is even slower than them.

Originally posted by SamZED
lol no. sorry if it seemed like im pissed off or trying to attack. Was not my intent. Dont think that Superman/Flash comparison can be taken literally. That'd be impossible to count.
Again, sorry. Stand your ground minion!

Anyways, you played any new games lately?

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
Ok, it was just that I read you say he is slower because he "lacks" the feats, as in he doesn't have enough or any. If that was what you were saying I didn't think it was fair, but I guess you meant something else.

He has speed feats, every character does in one form or another, the problem is his speed feats aren't better than the cream of the crop of street level peak humans. Thor has impressive flight/movement speed feats, and his hammer is capable of FTL, but he doesn't have any combat speed feats that put him even in the same ball park as someone like Spider-man.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
He has speed feats, every character does in one form or another, the problem is his speed feats aren't better than the cream of the crop of street level peak humans. Thor has impressive flight/movement speed feats, and his hammer is capable of FTL, but he doesn't have any combat speed feats that put him even in the same ball park as someone like Spider-man. Gotcha.

Originally posted by Silent Master
Lack of light makes people harder to track, which would work in Wolverine's favor.

However, that was only an afterthought...my main point was that Thor did far more in his scan than simply move a few feet.

Lack of light had nothing to do with him vanishing. They seen everything pretty well before shooting at him.

This scan should end our discussion.

http://img201.imageshack.us/img201/1830/strategyte6.jpg

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Haha, it's like you didn't even look at the scans. Thor wasn't barely beating him to the punch, he was f*cking wrecking him: "How can I fight 'Im? He's everywhere at once!!"

But because Thor didn't do a flip or leave some blurry lines it's apparently not impressive.

This is sad? I'm not the one who took the stance that Thor is at best peak human in speed and is even slower than them.

Unless your argument is that in between panels Thor was after imaging all over the place I'm not really sure what your point is? What was on panel was Thor dodging the wrecking ball, and beating Absorbing Man to the punch... it's not even remotely comparable to Spider-man seemingly being in a dozen places at once while Absorbing Man is completely stationary.

No you are the one who took the opposite stance in a supposedly absurd, one side argument... and yet can't produce a single feat to disprove me.

Why haven't I seen scans of Spidaman blitzing Thor yet?

Originally posted by Sr J-Bieb
Why haven't I seen scans of Spidaman blitzing Thor yet?

They've never fought?

Originally posted by carver9
Lack of light had nothing to do with him vanishing. They seen everything pretty well before shooting at him.

This scan should end our discussion.

http://img201.imageshack.us/img201/1830/strategyte6.jpg

Anticipatory movement based on an opponent's combat patterns is a bona fide speed feat now?

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
They've never fought? In Infinity War I believe. Spiderchum blitzes Masterson Thor. Masterson gets mad and uses his powers.

You let me down Srank. I thought one of you would have that on tap... I just don't want to look for it.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
They've never fought?

They've fought before and Spiderman was blitzing the hell out of him. They fought in the Avengers mansion.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
Stand your ground minion!

Anyways, you played any new games lately? lol

Sadly, no. Too much work. But I know im gonna play SF vs Tekken when it comes out even if I have to give up sleep. Have ou seen the trailer? EPIC!y

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Unless your argument is that in between panels Thor was after imaging all over the place I'm not really sure what your point is? What was on panel was Thor dodging the wrecking ball, and beating Absorbing Man to the punch... it's not even comparable to Spider-man seemingly being in a dozen places at once.

No you are the one who took the opposite stance in a supposedly absurd, one side argument... and yet can't produce a single feat to disprove me.

Once again: Blurry after images do not automatically make something more impressive. Stupid.

Lol. Okay:
http://i989.photobucket.com/albums/af17/RageOfOlympus/Thor/ReactsMicroSecond.jpg

Tell me why that's peak human at best.

http://i1092.photobucket.com/albums/i404/LordChaosKing/Thunderstrike/TS%20vs%20Spidey/Thor_44804.jpg

Originally posted by carver9
Lack of light had nothing to do with him vanishing. They seen everything pretty well before shooting at him.

This scan should end our discussion.

http://img201.imageshack.us/img201/1830/strategyte6.jpg


Again, my main point was that Thor did far, far more in his scan.

Originally posted by Sr J-Bieb
In Infinity War I believe. Spiderchum blitzes Masterson Thor. Masterson gets mad and uses his powers.

You let me down Srank. I thought one of you would have that on tap... I just don't want to look for it.

http://img176.imageshack.us/img176/7456/feat41fight4vn3.jpg
http://img99.imageshack.us/img99/139/feat41fight5tr3.jpg

F*cking Masterson.

Such a useless piece of shit some times. It's still amuses me how people use him as evidence against Thor but I gotta admit, he was getting his kicked.

Originally posted by Juk3n

But writer empathy is the strongest force in comics. Black Panthers armbar, and woverine out striking Thor..

http://images1.memegenerator.net/ImageMacro/6565922/nigga-please-you-gotta-be-shitting-me.jpg

Originally posted by batdude123
http://img176.imageshack.us/img176/7456/feat41fight4vn3.jpg
http://img99.imageshack.us/img99/139/feat41fight5tr3.jpg

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
http://i1092.photobucket.com/albums/i404/LordChaosKing/Thunderstrike/TS%20vs%20Spidey/Thor_44804.jpg


Thats not Thor.

Originally posted by Sr J-Bieb
In Infinity War I believe. Spiderchum blitzes Masterson Thor. Masterson gets mad and uses his powers.

You let me down Srank. I thought one of you would have that on tap... I just don't want to look for it.

I don't consider Masterson Thor = Thor, and I'm not going to hold that against him (even though that is what would happen).

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
http://i1092.photobucket.com/albums/i404/LordChaosKing/Thunderstrike/TS%20vs%20Spidey/Thor_44804.jpg



Spiderman has done so many top tiers like this that its crazy. He defeated Absorbing man, Firelord, thrashed Thor, did Hulk like that... am I missing someone?

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
F*cking Masterson.

Such a useless piece of shit some times. It's still amuses me how people use him as evidence against Thor but I gotta admit, he was getting his kicked.


I like how Masterson Thor feats = Thor feats, but BRB feats don't.

I find the double standard to be rather amusing.

Spiderman and the real Thor fought before. That was Masterson but I remember Thor and Spidey fighting each other during the time a Spider doppleganger was swinging around.

Think it was the doppelganger who fought Thor. Won by keeping his hammer away from him.

Originally posted by carver9
It would be excellent if we had someone to vote on the outcome of this... like a mod.

In what sense?

Originally posted by Silent Master
I like how Masterson Thor feats = Thor feats, but BRB feats don't.

I find the double standard to be rather amusing.

I like how Masterson Thor's top feats apply to Thor, but his lower end ones don't.

I find the double standard to be rather amusing.

Originally posted by batdude123
I like how Masterson Thor's top feats apply to Thor, but his lower end ones don't.

I find the double standard to be rather amusing.

What feats are you talking about?

Originally posted by SamZED
Think it was the doppelganger who fought Thor. Won by keeping his hammer away from him.

Really? They battled? When? Due to the time line it would have to be Masterson but still, I'd like to see it.

That's the annoying thing with such a large event. It stretches out into like every single Marvel book. Can't keep track of everything.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
Where was he stated as a high level superhuman, refresh my memory master.
who said he was stated as a high level superhuman?

He is a superhuman oh and your just gunna like this. He gotten stronger and faster over the years and will continue to.

Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan
Thats not Thor. I never caught that. Oh well. Originally posted by carver9
Spiderman has done so many top tiers like this that its crazy. He defeated Absorbing man, Firelord, thrashed Thor, did Hulk like that... am I missing someone? It is what he does.Originally posted by carver9
Spiderman and the real Thor fought before. That was Masterson but I remember Thor and Spidey fighting each other during the time a Spider doppleganger was swinging around. The good ol days.
Originally posted by SamZED
lol

Sadly, no. Too much work. But I know im gonna play SF vs Tekken when it comes out even if I have to give up sleep. Have ou seen the trailer? EPIC!y It seems cool, but I'm waiting on Capcom vs SNK3 baby!

Originally posted by -Pr-
In what sense?

Disregard that statement.

@Samz

That's the fight that I am talking about because he ended up defeating Thor and then the real Spidey woke up with Quicksilver on top of him blitzing him with hundreds of punches.

Guys, if you want to use Thor, then use Thor. Not Bill, not Masterson, please.

Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan
who said he was stated as a high level superhuman?

He is a superhuman oh and your just gunna like this. He gotten stronger and faster over the years and will continue to. They all do.

What do you consider Superhuman then?

Oh and I'm furious, I'm so mad I can't see straight. Gosh I hate Wolverine so much, you've finally figured me out. I'm jealous of him being better than everybody. I'm on a crusade against him.

Now you've figured out my lifelong secret. You've known it from day one.

Originally posted by Silent Master
What feats are you talking about? Making Thanos take a step back
'Knocking out Thanos'
With the IG

Getting rid of the gamma bomb in Infinity War, etc.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Really? They battled? When? Due to the time line it would have to be Masterson but still, I'd like to see it.

That's the annoying thing with such a large event. It stretches out into like every single Marvel book. Can't keep track of everything.

It was the real Thor.

I've never see anybody use those in a debate.

Originally posted by carver9
It was the real Thor. Can you search for an issue number?

http://www.comicbookdb.com/

Honestly like to see this

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
They all do.

What do you consider Superhuman then?
No I mean he stated on pannel that he going to evolve and that his physical stats will keep increasing.


When you can carry a grand panio through a jungle up a mountain your self.

Originally posted by Silent Master
I've never see anybody use those in a debate. Well then you haven't seen a Thanos vs Thor thread

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
They all do.

What do you consider Superhuman then?

Oh and I'm furious, I'm so mad I can't see straight. Gosh I hate Wolverine so much, you've finally figured me out. I'm jealous of him being better than everybody. I'm on a crusade against him.

Now you've figured out my lifelong secret. You've known it from day one.
you have fun with that sparky.

Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan
No I mean he stated on pannel that he going to evolve and that his physical stats will keep increasing.


When you can carry a grand panio through a jungle up a mountain your self. Well it isn't out of his strength range and he has super stamina. So his healing allows him to do it easily.Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan
you have fun with that sparky. I'm having fun talking to my best buddy.

Originally posted by carver9
real Spidey woke up with Quicksilver on top of him

Along with a combined feeling of shame and arousal...

Sorry couldn't resist, please carry on