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Darth traya vs yoda

Location: Coruscant, jedi temple

Positions:yoda is in the jedi temple were all the jedi are but all the other jedi all left because of sith attacks, Traya mysteriously enter the room, Both take lightsabre out.

Who wins?

Traya cuts Yoda off from the Force. GG.

Traya fails to cut off Yoda from the force,and Yoda does not fail to cut her head off of its shoulders.

Originally posted by Stealth Moose
Traya cuts Yoda off from the Force. GG.


yoda pwns traya

Traya can Force Drain whomever she damn well pleases, no matter how powerful they are or how they stack up against Vrook, Kavar, and Zez-Kai Ell--whom are all quantifiable and can be accurately measured against the PT Jedi.

What the Canadian said. Except the opposite.

The attack is by all rights unblockable. Good try though.

No, it's not.

Stated to be and backed up by Traya, 3 Jedi Masters and then the entire Jedi Council failing to block it. Seems pretty unblockable to me.

I doubt Yoda > an entire Jedi Council collectively.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Stated to be and backed up by Traya, 3 Jedi Masters and then the entire Jedi Council failing to block it. Seems pretty unblockable to me. This. The only thing that could even possibly help Yoda out is if he lived in a time where the Jedi Order had accumulated an additional 4,000 years of Sith and Force knowledge and if he was the Grand Master of the Jedi Order during it's G-canon status "Golden Years". And even if he did, there's absolutely no way to discredit those three Jedi Council members for the simple fact that they were Jedi Council Members---best of the best, wise amongst wise, the power amongst power. Only top tier Sith Masters like Jango Fett can topple Jedi Council members.

Its good that at least some people can listen to reason.

What do you mean with the entire Jedi Council? I only remember Traya killing 3 of them.

That wasn't even the entire surviving Council.

I meant the Council gathered on Katarr. As Unseen, Unheard showed us, they had ample time to react to Nihilus' attack.

Traya's Drain is akin to Nihilus' now? Sheesh, we are stretching these days.

When was it not the same thing?

So Traya can wipe out entire worlds as well with her technique?

Originally posted by Nephthys
When was it not the same thing? When she didn't do... what Nihilus did... you know, kill a planet?

Also, as I've been not reading any of the arguments in this thread recently, I may have missed out on something, but... how was it established that Unseen, Unheard informed of us the Jedi's defense against a planet-wide Force attack?

Originally posted by truejedi
Traya fails to cut off Yoda from the force,and Yoda does not fail to cut her head off of its shoulders.

DE, you have given in to the same supposition that all KOTOR fan bois have given into over the years.

Prove its the same drain, because I say it's not, based on... oh, it LOOKING completely different. Electric Judgement. I posted the pics, you ignored them.

This thread is seriously fvcking retarded.

According to the KOTOR Campaign Guide, Traya was the one who trained Nihilus to take his drain to planetary-levels. And since Nihilus can destroy the Force/life/the fvcking universe with his mere presence, that's impressive. In addition, Traya said that there are techniques in the Force against which there is no defense and, as we all know, there are absolutely no advances in any facet of life in four thousand years.

Thus, logically, Yoda's fvcked up the 'a', and quite hard.

Yoda

Originally posted by RagingBoner
Thus, logically, Yoda's fvcked up the 'a', and quite hard.

Well, Traya is a female, thus she could not do that.
Yoda, on the other hand... is a player.

Green midget FTW.

Originally posted by RagingBoner
This thread is seriously fvcking retarded.

According to the KOTOR Campaign Guide, Traya was the one who trained Nihilus to take his drain to planetary-levels. And since Nihilus can destroy the Force/life/the fvcking universe with his mere presence, that's impressive. In addition, Traya said that there are techniques in the Force against which there is no defense and, as we all know, there are absolutely no advances in any facet of life in four thousand years.

Thus, logically, Yoda's fvcked up the 'a', and quite hard.

Bitter much?



No I haven't. You've given into the Kotor hatred that's infested this forum over the years.



And we all know video games are the pinnacle of in-game/out-game continuity. Or even gameplay/cutscene continuity.



I must not have answered because of how stupid that point was. Electric Judgement? YOu know thats a variation on Force Lightning right? As in, in no way a draining technique at all?



The technique is different only in terms of scale. There is still nothing indicating the attack can be blocked.



It showed us that the populace had ample time to react to the attack. And Jedi reaction time >>>>>> normal humanoid. Unless the Jedi are functionally retarded, or so tonedeaf that they can't feel an entire planet dying around them, I'd say its 100% positive that they both noticed the attack and had time to defend themselves from it. Or at least as much time as Yoda has.

Traya doesn't even get a chance to use her attack. Yoda masks his presence in the force hiding him from the blind old coot. Traya is in two pieces seconds later.

Yoda ftw!

Edit: Or he rag dolls her with the force before she does anything. Either way.

Originally posted by Nephthys


And we all know video games are the pinnacle of in-game/out-game continuity. Or even gameplay/cutscene continuity.




So instead... we get to MAKE UP what happened, instead of what is happening on the screen? Player, please.



QFT, I couldn't have put it better myself.

I'm unsure where you're going with this. Is it that Kreia did not use a draining technique? Because that would explain why when you click on their bodies it says they were utterly drained of the Force. Oh wait!

Originally posted by Nephthys
The technique is different only in terms of scale. There is still nothing indicating the attack can be blocked. Not in the game, no.



Originally posted by Nephthys
It showed us that the populace had ample time to react to the attack. And Jedi reaction time >>>>>> normal humanoid. Unless the Jedi are functionally retarded, or so tonedeaf that they can't feel an entire planet dying around them, I'd say its 100% positive that they both noticed the attack and had time to defend themselves from it. Or at least as much time as Yoda has. Is that video that you've linked in the past the full comic? Because if it is, I must be missing something important in one of the panels. I can't zoom in on anything, so what exactly am I not seeing that indicates that the Jedi began preparing a defense using the specifically aimed at repulsing this Sith Drain? From what I see, the comic is pretty consistent with the game: Nihilus spoke, attacked, everyone died.

I'd need to read Unseen, Unheard. It could be possible that what we see is simply from Visas's imagination.

Originally posted by RagingBoner
I'd need to read Unseen, Unheard. It could be possible that what we see is simply from Visas's imagination. This is the one I've been using. Apparently it's only six pages long.

Originally posted by RagingBoner
I'd need to read Unseen, Unheard. It could be possible that what we see is simply from Visas's imagination.

Could be possible. Afterall, Visas doesn't really "see" reality.

Originally posted by Nephthys
I'm unsure where you're going with this. Is it that Kreia did not use a draining technique? Because that would explain why when you click on their bodies it says they were utterly drained of the Force. Oh wait!

wait... are you saying that dead bodies AREN'T usually drained of the force? I thought we just had a 10 page argument that if Nihilus killed every living thing, he could kill the force, but if dead bodies still totally have the force, then he has zero chance of killing the force. You can't have that both ways.

Dead bodies still exist inside the Force. The Force still binds and passes through them. Kreia and Nihilus' technique complete removes the person from the Force, causing a wound, an absence in it. Thats why the technique is so heinous, because it is literally killing the Force.

9Kep9mUEfxA

6.40

'This master is dead..... drained of life. His body is worse than lifeless, it's like an absence in the Force.'





I never said they had specifically prepared a defence, I said they had time enough to react to the attack. Obviously they would attempt to defend themselves.



The narration is her perspective, the pictures however are not.

Originally posted by Nephthys

The narration is her perspective, the pictures however are not.

Ah, "her perspective". That is a good way of saying that Unseen, Unheard is not really a trustworthy source.

Only the narration is from her perspective. The accompanying pictures are blantantly not, showing images she is not witnissing. The source is reliable.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Only the narration is from her perspective. The accompanying pictures are blantantly not, showing images she is not witnissing. The source is reliable.

The narration being not trustworthy is more important than pictures being not trustworthy. Some images can be interpreted in too many different ways.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Only the narration is from her perspective. The accompanying pictures are blantantly not, showing images she is not witnissing. The source is reliable.

The fact that the images depict events/occurrences that Visas is not perceiving does not preclude the possibility that the images are simply depicting what she's imagining.

People tend to have conceptions of that which they haven't witnessed, experienced, or couldn't possibly know.

Now who's speculating?

Theres no evidence that the images are from her perspective and you know it.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Now who's speculating?

Theres no evidence that the images are from her perspective and you know it.

I have yet to see evidence that they aren't from her perspective.

Except from, y'know, not being from her perspective in the slightest.

super13

Also I don't have to prove they aren't from her perspective, you need to prove they are.

Were you and Zampano recently anointed by Borbarad as Most Esteemed Arbiters of Canon, those imbued with the power to establish, reestablish, or undo continuity by sheer fiat?

If so, I'm really jealous.

Anyways, as you point out: The narration is clearly from her perspective. Why would the images be any different?

In comics narration and imagery can be so far apart that its absurd. Like when Spiderman's narrating about what a wonderful day it is and then it transitions to his house getting bombed, or Aunt May getting kidnapped. Obviously that isn't from his perspective, because he's on the other sith of the city, but the narration is.

Originally posted by Nephthys
In comics narration and imagery can be so far apart that its absurd.

Thank you for explaining what is possible in the comic book world. Now, if you'd be so kind as to provide evidence as to why this is the case here other than your say-so.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Also I don't have to prove they aren't from her perspective, you need to prove they are.

I don't have to do anything other than defeat your points. You say the narration makes it all from her perspective, I show why that not true. Try again.

Originally posted by Nephthys
I don't have to do anything other than defeat your points. You say the narration makes it all from her perspective, I show why that not true. Try again.

No, you show why it might not be from her perspective. To which I counter why it might.

What you fail to grasp is that our roles are reversed: You want to use the comic as incontrovertible proof. All I need do is cast doubt on it.

Mission accomplished.

You'll need to do better than that it 'might' be. The entire of KOTOR 2 might be one huge fever dream and be totally non-canon. Are you going to ask me to prove that that isn't the case?



Yeah, no. I have actual visual proof. Thats as much proof as I need. You need to prove thats faulty. I don't need to prove it isn't. Again, see above example.

Your visual proof is nonexistent. The visuals in the comic follow/match with Visas's narration. Suffice it to say, this simply could be the product of her imagination; her mind's depiction of the devastation on Katarr.

But not her perspective.



Again with the baseless speculation.

Originally posted by Nephthys
But not her perspective.



Oh, life's little ironies.

I guess she was actually in space looking at the planet when it happened then huh? The images are not from her viewpoint.

I wish KOTOR had been like fallout where your companions can actually die. That always made that game seem more real.

Originally posted by Nephthys


I guess she was actually in space looking at the planet when it happened then huh? The images are not from her viewpoint.



I guess people can only imagine that which is directly in front of their eyes.

Oh I love the reasoning sometimes.

"Sidious can whip up a Force storm on his toes because he said he could"

"Visas and Traya are entirely unreliable and full of bullshit."

Selective with our sources much?

Originally posted by Stealth Moose
"Visas and Traya are entirely unreliable and full of bullshit."

Who in the world said that?

Originally posted by Stealth Moose
Oh I love the reasoning sometimes.

"Sidious can whip up a Force storm on his toes because he said he could"

"Visas and Traya are entirely unreliable and full of bullshit."

Selective with our sources much?

But Sidious proved how fast he can whip one up, which was right after Luke chopped his hand off. I am guessing it happened instantly since it had began devouring entire capital ships before Luke and Leia looked out to fleet.

BTW Gideon, what would having Unseen, Unheard be from Visas' perspective achieve exactly?

Without Unseen, Unheard, you can't really prove how long it took for N. to drain the entire planet.

And making it from her perspective cpmpletely vaporises the source does it?

It puts the source in question.

Becuase? I mean, its an eye-witness testomony.

testimony of what? Nihilus conducting the attack? because she would have to be standing beside him to witness that.

What TJ said. Visas was shown to be on the planet in an obvious state of confusion and not next to Nihilus.

Also, nice pun on the "eye-witness".

Darth nihilius.

Rofl.

VII. Thou shalt not respect the equally valid sources of thy opposition and should seek to destroy their credibility with extreme prejudice.

Stealth Moose, with addendum by R.B.
Rofl.

VII. Thou shalt not respect the equally valid sources of thy opposition (anything not promoting the idea that Marka Ragnos is the most powerful Sith Lord ever) and should seek to destroy theirLightsnake's credibility with extreme prejudice.

Where the hell is Lightsnake, anyways? He's like the Lost Twenty of KMC.

He has achieved apotheosis and graduated to the real world.

So basically he's stuck with a full time job and no net? Ouch.

Nah, the good chap is distracted by the demands of law school.

Lightsnake, arguing law. Very scary.

"So where were you on the night of the murder?"

"I was arguing how Ragnos pwns Sidious!"

(Cue bailiff restraining LS from leaping over his table to kill the witness)

Originally posted by Stealth Moose
Lightsnake, arguing law. Very scary.

"So where were you on the night of the murder?"

"I was arguing how Ragnos pwns Sidious!"

(Cue bailiff restraining LS from leaping over his table to kill the witness)

As LS's dear friend, I would step in:

"On what grounds?"

"Well, um... this one book says Ragnos was the most powerful of the ancient Sith."

"Excellent. And the quotes and books regarding Sidious?"

"They... don't... count?"

(Cue the judge tossing the dumbass witness in jail for contempt of court)

Well, as someone once said:



Bow to His Might!

http://img126.imageshack.us/img126/2429/ragnosrule5sd.jpg

This is clearly referencing political aptitude and his status as the reigning Sith leader.

^^ I believe someone else was rather fond of using that interpretation when it came to Sidiousanother character.



Wasn't this Kreia's opinion on the subject?



Yeah, and Palpatine was above Tarkin, who could destroy entire planets while in command of the Death Star.



Good for himhis scepter?

Palpatine could drain billions of people on his own.

Sorry, it's definitive. The Sith are a martial, power first society.



(1) The reference to power is oh-so-clearly political in nature. (2) Ragnos never ruled the galaxy (but Palpatine did!). (3) The lines in KotOR are made by fallible mortals, not omniscient beings, despite what Zampano might have one believe about Kreia's accuracy. (4) Does crowning Exar and Ulic mean much? (5) Luke prefaces that line with "there's no telling how powerful could be." (6) He's never been depicted with an equal because Palpatine wasn't born in his time.

I will forgive your ignorance this time, RB.

Now bow and kiss His Ring:

http://img126.imageshack.us/img126/2429/ragnosrule5sd.jpg

NEVAR!!1!oneone!

HE is your father! You know it to be true!

THAT'S NOT TRUE, THAT'S IMPOSSIBLE!

Totally. You can just see him with ur mom.

She left him for Palpatine, who was more powerful, intelligent, and had a more satisfying male reproductive organ.

He also had the killer baldpate.

Does that mean charming smile?

In the Sith language there's a phonetic similarity. So... yes!

If Star Trek fans can all speak Klingon, I should learn how to speak Sith as well. Is someone available to homeschool me on this subject?

Problem with someone saying that Marka Ragnos is the most powerful of the most powerful, while he is still alive, is that there have been so many Sith Lords (namely Sidious) who came AFTER that was true.

Sidious was also the most powerful Sith Lord while he was alive. Same with Bane, Krayt, Caedus, Revan, Nihilus, nameless Emperor etc.

exactly.

Doesn't the DE comic say something like "the most powerful Sith who ever lived?" about sidious?

That's what's not entirely clear. Instances where Sidious is claimed to be most powerful always march right into the fruits of his scheming. No one ever posts "Sidious was most powerful because he was undefeated in combat" or "He knew every single Sith sorcery ritual ever". The big point that he's the most powerful practitioner in modern times is really telling -- there's barely any Sith to compete against.

Originally posted by Stealth Moose
That's what's not entirely clear. Instances where Sidious is claimed to be most powerful always march right into the fruits of his scheming. No one ever posts "Sidious was most powerful because he was undefeated in combat" or "He knew every single Sith sorcery ritual ever". The big point that he's the most powerful practitioner in modern times is really telling -- there's barely any Sith to compete against.

Hm. Astute points.

And then Traya spanks him and Yoda at the same time.

Originally posted by Stealth Moose
And then Traya spanks him and Yoda at the same time.



I can see Traya perhaps beating either of them in one on one combat.

Together they'd own her, and if it were DE Sids, she wouldn't have much of a chance.

Now if this were NIHILUS on the other hand...

Originally posted by NowYouRemember
I'm guessing if he underestimated Kreia and took a blast of Drain the same way he took a blast of Sid's lightning initially, then he'd pretty much be dead as a doorknob.

And from what we've seen lately, after looking into things, is that the Force Drain that Nihilus and Kreia use might be unblockable - except for another Force Wound.

But it'll take some time to reach any kind of confirmation.

If it is unblockable and insta-kill, I don't know what, if anything, Sid's could do to win the duel.

Shhhh, don't start talking like that around here. They'll inform on you!

http://img88.imageshack.us/img88/6703/ragnoscard2.jpg

Uploaded with ImageShack.us

Originally posted by Stealth Moose
Shhhh, don't start talking like that around here. They'll inform on you!

http://img88.imageshack.us/img88/6703/ragnoscard2.jpg

Uploaded with ImageShack.us

Awesome.

I'm having too much fun with this:

http://i54.tinypic.com/121r4mc.jpg

Originally posted by Stealth Moose
I'm having too much fun with this:

http://i54.tinypic.com/121r4mc.jpg



I know, I had fun with those, too.

Have you seen my DE Sid's card?

Nope. Link?

http://i723.photobucket.com/albums/ww231/Thallah/2X8rR7HR3.jpg

Not as funny as your stuff.

I was just being cheeky when I made it.

Here's Revan and Nihilus..

http://i723.photobucket.com/albums/ww231/Thallah/2c7RrXbaK2.jpg

http://i723.photobucket.com/albums/ww231/Thallah/W2rwhJVV9YCAMFA9ID.jpg

Epic pic of all of them.

Thank you.

SM
That's what's not entirely clear. Instances where Sidious is claimed to be most powerful always march right into the fruits of his scheming.

Where?



Is that a requirement for someone who is the most powerful Sith ever?



Based on all available evidence, Palpatine's knowledge of the Force transcends any single practitioner of the Force in the mythos.



It reaffirms his superiority over Count Dooku.

http://i723.photobucket.com/albums/ww231/Thallah/d6ce70c9-44ec-4add-9d10-935311e1024f.jpg

Originally posted by RagingBoner

all available evidence

My goodness is Count Dooku somebody's *****.

Originally posted by RagingBoner
My goodness is Count Dooku somebody's *****.

You'll have to summarize what that episode is about. I don't watch Children's shows.

And actually, I just find the idea of your essay to be somewhat cute.

Do you actually place alot of importance in it?

Originally posted by RagingBoner
Where?

Most available quotes, see above.



Sidious is credited with being the only Sith to truly overcome the Jedi via political machinations and subterfuge. Hell yes it's apparent that he's cunning and patient, but does this equate into battle prowess? No.



Ragnos > Dooku. Stfu

I'm totally going to piss you off with this:



The universe didn't know Ragnos; only the Sith did. Sidious/Palpatine was an Emperor and thus publicly known.

QED!

Oh my. DOOKUxVENTRESS 4 EVAR!

Originally posted by Nephthys
Oh my. DOOKUxVENTRESS 4 EVAR!

Some things shouldn't be typed, thought, or said.

This is one of them.

Creepy people need sex too. http://i.somethingawful.com/forumsystem/emoticons/emot-colbert.gif

And he was totally like 'shes become quite important to me.' What else could that BE but wuv? *ships like a madman*

Originally posted by Stealth Moose
Most available quotes, see above.

In what strange, fictive universe are those "most available quotes"?



Which, if I'm not mistaken, Ragnos didn't do. All this is does is prove Palpatine's superiority over his predecessor in another facet of Sithdom.



I'd say extraordinarily brilliant is more accurate than mere "cunning and patient." But again, does a spotless record mean that one is the greatest ever? That seems to be ignoring context: What if the combatant in question hardly ever fights? What of the caliber of his opponents?



According to what source?
















If you interpret that quote to mean "everyone in the galaxy" had to know of the person in question, then there's no such animal: there's nothing indicating that everyone in the galaxy was aware of even Palpatine's existence. For example, the Lost Tribe of the Sith of the Fate of the Jedi series operated within the galaxy, but trapped on their world, they weren't aware of galactic developments.

Clearly some in the galaxy knew of Ragnos, just like many in the galaxy knew of Palpatine.

Originally posted by RagingBoner
In what strange, fictive universe are those "most available quotes"?/

Reading is fundament, as Nai would say. I've posted quotes above, you've provided a few in your essay. I worked with those before and now. Areyousatisfiedomfg.




No, it proves that Sidious was a benefactor of circumstance politically a manipulator of the highest caliber. This does not substantiate battle prowess, which is what we worship here in SWVF.



So who is more likely to have dangerous opponents; an undisputed master of an entire empire of folks who make KotOR-era Jedi and Sith look like kids with toys? Those who created Malachor V and the infamous Force Drain? The empire founded on Sith sorcery and principles which Bane, Plageus and Sidious later researched and plundered to achieve their levels of knowledge? Someone accepted without question as leader beyond the grave by Sith Lords who otherwise answer to no one?

Or a shifty politican who fights exactly six Jedi, five of those before his prime and two of those battles he nearly lost?

Context, yes.



Wookiepedia. No, I'm kidding. It's a joke. Everyone knows Dooku taught Ragnos everything he knew when they fathered Bandon and Revan.



Actually, I used the source literally and with a skeptical viewpoint, kind of like how you and others view non-Sidious related claims to power in EU. Unseen, Unheard is suddenly an Alice in Wonderland acid trip by a blind woman and totally out of context, Kreia is a bullshitter and Tobin wouldn't know the Force if it was fathering his child, but everything ever hinted or claimed about Sidious is irrefutable and furthermore this above claim was your most credible.

So when I look at it, I found a loophole; namely, that it uses the qualifier "known" by the "galaxy", implying popularity. Ragnos was only popular with the Sith and some of their later followers. He wasn't known far and wide because he didn't enjoy the same amount of publicity a Republic senator later Emperor would, right?

If popularity and political machinations were qualities we were comparing, Sidious would win hands down. If it's undisputed power, legacy and implied martial prowess, I'd say Ragnos gets the tip.

S
Reading is fundament, as Nai would say. I've posted quotes above, you've provided a few in your essay. I worked with those before and now. Areyousatisfiedomfg.

"Before"? Interesting. You seem like Janus, but Janus wasn't banned.... But Sorgo was. I'm unable to discern which of you it is. (Perhaps Illustrious?) But it matters not: Henceforth, you shall be referred to as Soranus (pronounced sore-anus) -- which is ironic, because that's exactly what you're about to get following the intense destruction at my penishands.



No, 'twas Ragnos who was a benefactor of circumstance -- he was lucky Palpatine wasn't around in that era to kick his ancient ass. lulz





If by "Or a shifty politican who fights exactly six Jedi, five of those before his prime and two of those battles he nearly lost" what you really mean is: "A brilliant political strategist whose cognitive abilities transcend Ragnos, assembling a mighty Galactic Empire that would annihilate that of Ragnos, equipped with galactic-spanning resources capable of plundering worlds across the galaxy in search of relevant Force-related knowledge and arcana (unlike Ragnos), dedicating himself to studying the Force in all its aspects throughout his reign, and demonstrating powers and skills that are equal to that of any Sith Lord you care to name" then yes, I'd side with the latter.

Besides, the Essential Guide to the Force grudgingly bequeaths a measure of strategic aptitude to Ragnos as well, pointing out that he manipulated his enemies into attacking each other, not unlike his eventual successor who happened to do it far better than he did, on a far greater scale.



I'm guessing Dooku was the b1tch in that relationship, because it seems all he's good at is kneeling before his betters. (Then again, Ragnos hasn't been proven to be one of those.)



If you'd even bothered to read myGideon's essay, you'd notice Ihe was objective enough to go through and point out where such quotes were flawed unlike certain Ancient Sith fanboys.



Well, since we all know life's a popularity contest, His Imperial Majesty must be better than Mark A. Ragnos.



Yes, but weren't you the guy who once argued Dooku was more powerful than Palpatine? Is it possible that you just don't like the guy?

Well Ragnos had Qel'Droma and Exar Kun kneeling to him. So its not like he doesn't have his fair share of b1tches either.

Originally posted by RagingBoner
"Before"? Interesting. You seem like Janus, but Janus wasn't banned.... But Sorgo was. I'm unable to discern which of you it is. (Perhaps Illustrious?) But it matters not: Henceforth, you shall be referred to as Soranus (pronounced sore-anus) -- which is ironic, because that's exactly what you're about to get following the intense destruction at my penishands.

I'm not anyone who's banned, you can be assured of that. I'd call you something unflattering, but with a name like Raging Boner, I think it's obvious you're compensating for something.

OH SNAP!



ROFLMAOOMFGBBQ!

Smiley face.




So because George Dubya Bush came to power and made a country more militant than it was, a country which outnumbered say, ancient Rome and was technologically more advanced (meaning Dubya's boys could pwn ancient Rome), this makes Dubya more accomplished and martially have more prowess than Julius Caesar?

Does not compute.



Ghost Ragnos doesn't have legs, dude. He can't kneel or be pushed over chairs with ease.



You're not talking about me, so I'll accept that you tried to be objective once.



Mark Anthony Ragnos? Wtf?!



I'd say Coleman Trebor could beat him if it'd keep you and Lightsnake reeling in terror. Sometimes, I just have to be spiteful to find any joy at KMC. And the over-reaction justifies the act.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Well Ragnos had Qel'Droma and Exar Kun kneeling to him. So its not like he doesn't have his fair share of b1tches either.

No one denies that Ragnos was both powerful and a pimp. I'm not a completely biased douche like Soranus, but His Imperial Majesty is better.





And the ladies love him. Ragnos is just gay.

Originally posted by Stealth Moose
I'm not anyone who's banned, you can be assured of that. I'd call you something unflattering, but with a name like Raging Boner, I think it's obvious you're compensating for something.

OH SNAP!



ROFLMAOOMFGBBQ!

Smiley face.




So because George Dubya Bush came to power and made a country more militant than it was, a country which outnumbered say, ancient Rome and was technologically more advanced (meaning Dubya's boys could pwn ancient Rome), this makes Dubya more accomplished and martially have more prowess than Julius Caesar?

Does not compute.



Ghost Ragnos doesn't have legs, dude. He can't kneel or be pushed over chairs with ease.



You're not talking about me, so I'll accept that you tried to be objective once.



Mark Anthony Ragnos? Wtf?!



I'd say Coleman Trebor could beat him if it'd keep you and Lightsnake reeling in terror. Sometimes, I just have to be spiteful to find any joy at KMC. And the over-reaction justifies the act.

JANUS

Originally posted by RagingBoner
No one denies that Ragnos was both powerful and a pimp. I'm not a completely biased douche like Soranus, but His Imperial Majesty is better.





And the ladies love him. Ragnos is just gay.

Ragnos is gay as in filled with joy that Sidious comes to him for advance, usually on his hands and knees.

Originally posted by RagingBoner
No one denies that Ragnos was both powerful and a pimp. I'm not a completely biased douche like Soranus, but His Imperial Majesty is better.





And the ladies love him. Ragnos is just gay.

Yeah, but Palpatine fathered a retarded mutant with 3 eyes. And then named him Triclops.

Player he aint.

Also, the evidence for his lack of creativity and laziness is piling up.

Like Death Star. How unoriginal.

Originally posted by Stealth Moose
I'm not anyone who's banned, you can be assured of that. I'd call you something unflattering, but with a name like Raging Boner, I think it's obvious you're compensating for something.

I drive a Honda Accord and it's really small, so I'm compensating for that. haermm



While I am profoundly insulted that you dare compare His Imperial Majesty to George W. Bush, I will remain civil and awesome enough to address you. Mark A. Ragnos was confined to the galaxy's backwater; that he was the strongest and dominant Sith Lord of his time does not make him a scholar. We haven't a clue what he studied, how often he fought, or the nature of the fights themselves. What we do know is that he was cunning and manipulative throughout his reign, pitting rivals against one another (the Essential Guide to the Force) and that he was confined to the technology and knowledge of his aforementioned backwater empire -- but you can't even tell me how much of a scholar he was.

Meanwhile, the true badass in this equation sought the galaxy for all sorts of Force-related arcana and knowledge, specifically for study. You haven't the means to conclusively assert Mark's dominance even if you wanted.



But he can be effortlessly crushed by a neophyte Jedi Knight.





Are you sure I'm not talking about you?



There is no over-reaction, there is only the Force.






fvck you

bbl Soranus. luv u

edit: Are you fvcking kidding me? It says May 6th is when the new edition of Classic Rock magazine AOR issue #2 is to be released. It has an interview with Journey's Neal Schon, a review of a recent Journey concert, and a review of their new album and Barnes & Noble doesn't fvcking have it.

Thats just what you get for championing Sidious. I hope you've learnt your lesson.

Wait, Barnes and Noble? What time is it over there?

5:23pm.

Originally posted by RagingBoner
I drive a Honda Accord and it's really small, so I'm compensating for that. haermm

Evil foreign car driver! That's un-American.



Yes it does.



Sith alchemy, Sith sorcery. The Dark Side. Have you read Golden Age of the Sith?



He ruled undisputed for over a century in a martial society which advocated disposing of your leader when he grew weak. Even on his deathbed, no one disposed of Ragnos he was so strong. As a ghost, they knelt before him and feared him, heeding his will. Simus, the one he beat to become king, was powerful enough to live for a century as a head, a feat more or less not duplicated later in the saga. Exar Kun, who defied the Jedi Order and betrayed Freedan Nadd, knelt before Ragnos and was given his title without complaint or attempt to destroy. Freedan Nadd who made his own dark side order, considered Ragnos above him. Kreia considers his grasp of the Dark Side "frightening". This is a woman who ate her lunchables with Nihilus and Sion; the former ate planets and the latter could not be physically destroyed so long as he was fueled by hate.



Occam's Razor suggests that we ought to take the implication at face value, instead of applying "supposes" to it. Ragnos ruled the Sith in their Golden Age, keeping his opponents from destroying him for a hundred years (more than Sidious' generation, and Sidious didn't even have an empire's worth of Dark Siders to keep tabs on!). If you want to imply that he fought them all from orbit using nukes, go right ahead. It's baseless.



Which means he's strong and smart enough to stave off defeat for a hundred years. How is this bad? Do you think he kept the other Sith from beheading him by being them in a game of Checkers? Telling their mommies? Was he the gangster who paid Bruno to send Vinny into the drink?

At this era, even the Jedi did not have wireless lightsabers. This point is moot.



Gee, he made a Sceptre which does all sorts of nifty things. He must have totally pulled that out of the Sith Local Library. I bet everyone had them. It was like a ****ing Sith Hogwart's.



Que?



Considering it took tons of Force power to attempt to resurrect him, that's telling in itself. Inhabiting Tavion's weak body did not equate to Ragnos in the flesh. There's no way to indicate how great the difference was; I'd argue that considering it took several planets' worth of Force power nexuses to even try to resurrect him, that's just friggin' sick.



You wouldn't be so foolish as to assume I'm being anything less than open-minded. I have yet to write a full essay on the power of Dooku, Revan, or Ragnos.



Rofl.

Geez, its like 11.30 over here. Lucky gits.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Geez, its like 11.30 over here. Lucky gits.

Lucky?

Lucky?






IT'S NOT FVCKING THERE!

edit: Btw, where is it said that Ragnos's scepter can/has drained entire planets?

At least you havn't got fifty Meg and Ariels staring at you with no idea how to get rid of them. Stupid tiny lesbians.

S
Evil foreign car driver! That's un-American.

I am the SenateAmerica.



No, it doesn't. Drafting an epistle doesn't make one a scholar, it makes one a writer. When we see evidence of Mark masterminding something like this, I'll be impressed.



Specifically what, though? And to what extent? Where are the sources, quotes, and feats that testify to Mark's undeniable scholarly brilliance in the ways of the Force?



"Once he gained control of the Sith Empire, he maintained dominance by pitting his detractors against one another, manipulating them into challenging him, or simply assassinating them." -- The Dark Side Sourcebook, page 69.

Fighting his rivals was only one of the ways that Mark maintained his dominance, Soranus. We have no idea how often he indulged in one-on-one combat to cement his superiority.



It's not baseless, given the above source. He relied on assassination and manipulation as well. If you don't like it, take it up with the source.



It's not bad, in the same way that Palpatine's political brilliance isn't bad. But you seem to be under the impression that Mark was entering the fray left and right, kicking ass and taking names like some sort of Sith!Dwayne Johnson, which isn't supported by the source material.



wut?
There are other Force-using sects out there than just Mark's Sith empire. Palpatine made an effort to study all of them. Point unmooted.



Gee, why would he make such a scepter if he could do that shit on his own? By your reckoning, Palpatine can obliterate planets singlehandedly because he commissioned the construction of the Death Star.




The Dark Empire Sourcebook mentions how Palpatine expended great effort and resource to collect Force knowledge across the galaxy, a luxury that Mark didn't share.



Eh? According to Luke, reanimating dead cells (to resurrect a body) requires a "high enough concentration of Force energy" (26:39). Not because Mark is some sort of cosmic Sith badass.

But then, it took the effort of every Jedi "who came before " to keep Palpatine's spirit trapped in limbo, so would you consider that a measure of great power?



I'm afraid the dark side of the Forceintense jealousy is clouding your vision, my friend.

You would if you could.



That's right, you roll on that floor. You belong at my feet!

I though Jedi became one with the force when they died. Do they keep their consciousness? Because that doesn't make sense. Only those who can become spirits can keep their individuality. At least thats what I thought.

Or does Star Wars have a heaven now?

Originally posted by Nephthys


I though Jedi became one with the force when they died. Do they keep their consciousness? Because that doesn't make sense. Only those who can become spirits can keep their individuality. At least thats what I thought.

Or does Star Wars have a heaven now?

I'm pretty sure all Jedi become "one with the Force" when they die; they vanish into the energy field and literally become part of it. Certain Jedi who know certain techniques are able to maintain their identity and separate themselves from it, like Yoda, Qui-Gon Jinn, etc.

Then how do they have the ability to consciously exert the effort to block Palpatine? Unless hes just being held back by just Yoda, Obi-Wan, Qui-Gon and Anakin.


Which would make sense imo. mmm

Oh, fallible source. That makes sense. Gotcha.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Oh, fallible source. That makes sense. Gotcha.

Hey, if that applies to Nihilus as well, I'm more than happy to concede that part.

This is the benefit of having a deep reservoir of sources at your disposal.

Not really considering that the things said about Nihilus don't directly contradict the laws of the universe. So, no.

The guy obviously just didn't know what the f*ck he was talking about.

Yeah, I figured that would send you scurrying for the hills.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Not really considering that the things said about Nihilus don't directly contradict the laws of the universe. So, no.

The guy obviously just didn't know what the f*ck he was talking about.

I'm afraid such double standards shan't be tolerated and I accept your concession.

edit: If you wish to carry on, you'll need to prove how what Empatajayos Brand said "directly contradicts the laws of the universe." Until then, you're free to languish along with Nihilus, Mark, and Soranus in the shadow of His Imperial Majesty's superiority.

You said it yourself. Jedi cannot retain consciousness while one with the Force except with a certain technique. Therefore they cannot consiously work to hold His Imperial Majesty back. QED.

The qualifier 'And' seperates the Force and the jedi, suggesting that the Jedi are working seperately against it at the same time. If not then I hardly see why you would think of that as a point in Palpatines favor, as the Jedi aren't seperatable from the Force at all and thus really have no part in the effort at all. They couldn't even be said to exist anymore, just as my dinner when digested could not be said to exist. Its all the Force.

Also I really dont like it when people laugh at me. I'm serious here. Cut it the **** out.

Originally posted by Nephthys The qualifier 'And' seperates the Force and the jedi, suggesting that the Jedi are working seperately against it at the same time. If not then I hardly see why you would think of that as a point in Palpatines favor, as the Jedi aren't seperatable from the Force at all and thus really have no part in the effort at all. They couldn't even be said to exist anymore, just as my dinner when digested could not be said to exist. Its all the Force.

lulwutno


Fear not my child, I shall explain:

The qualifier is simply being used to specify a component, a piece, a fraction, a part (the Jedi) of the overall Force (capital 'F') working against His Imperial Majesty. The Jedi who died before them will be working within the Force -- because they are part of it -- against the Emperor.

Simple, like you. Easy, like your mom. Perfect, like me.

"and all the jedi who went before is" is probably to include the jedi who retained their separate identity, instead of mentioning them all one by one. So RB is not necessarily wrong.

Originally posted by Nephthys
The qualifier 'And' seperates the Force and the jedi, suggesting that the Jedi are working seperately against it at the same time. If not then I hardly see why you would think of that as a point in Palpatines favor, as the Jedi aren't seperatable from the Force at all and thus really have no part in the effort at all. They couldn't even be said to exist anymore, just as my dinner when digested could not be said to exist. Its all the Force.

Also I really dont like it when people laugh at me. I'm serious here. Cut it the **** out.

Or this, I guess

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
"and all the jedi who went before is" is probably to include the jedi who retained their separate identity, instead of mentioning them all one by one. So RB is not necessarily wrong.

Perhaps.

















Did you dare say "necessarily"?

Originally posted by RagingBoner
Did you dare say "necessarily"?

Ummm... no?

EDIT: I quoted the wrong person up there. I meant to quote RB. How embarrassing lol

Except they are not working at all given that they lack the individuality required to do so. They are inseperable from the Force itself and without Agency. They are one with the Force.

Meaning that they are not actively working against him. If they had retained individuality then it could be argued that the quote showed that all of the Jedi working in unison were required to hold him back. As it is its refering to the jedi merely as a part of the Force. The Force is holding him back, not the collective might of 10,000 years worth of Jedi. Its the difference between 1 person holding you back to millions doing so. So the feat is decidedly Not Impressive.



Well then it wouldn't be 'all the jedi who went before us', would it? It would be '3 old dudes and a puppet'.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Well then it wouldn't be 'all the jedi who went before us', would it? It would be '3 old dudes and a puppet'.

No because the force would be including every single jedi who did not retain their identity.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Except they are not working at all given that they lack the individuality required to do so. They are inseperable from the Force itself and without Agency. They are one with the Force.

Meaning that they are not actively working against him. If they had retained individuality then it could be argued that the quote showed that all of the Jedi working in unison were required to hold him back. As it is its refering to the jedi merely as a part of the Force. The Force is holding him back, not the collective might of 10,000 years worth of Jedi. Its the difference between 1 person holding you back to millions doing so. So the feat is decidedly Not Impressive.

It would still be impressive. The power it took to hold Palpatine. It's like all the jedi share one brain which= The will of the force