Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.

Ok... plain and simple.

We have an instance where Goku with a PL of 1000 ran snake way and it took him 170 days.

Goku repeats this process but the second time around it took him only 28 hours and he had a PL of 5000... only a small increase in power. The small difference in power make something that took Goku half a year to do only last for a couple of hrs.

With that said, what if we placed Super Saiyan Goku on snake way... how long do you think it would take him to cross it with a PL of 150 million?

Please discuss.

He'd just use instant transmission.

Originally posted by King Kandy
He'd just use instant transmission. The question wasn't, how would he get across, the question was how long would it take him to travel across.

That being said, it might as well be instant transmission, it would take him a matter of...a very small measurement of time

^ jeezuz facepalm

Originally posted by menokokoro
The question wasn't, how would he get across, the question was how long would it take him to travel across.

That being said, it might as well be instant transmission, it would take him a matter of...a very small measurement of time
I understood the point, I was just trying to show how stupid this thread is.

Originally posted by King Kandy
I understood the point, I was just trying to show how stupid this thread is.

Awwwwwwww.





To answer the question:


Why, the speed would scale up to the c, of course!



If we assume a power level is linear in quantity and we use the 150,000,000 number for Goku, we can use that energy comparison to see how close to c Goku can get. Keep in mind that the closer to c you get, the more energy it requires. It requires an infinite amount of energy to actually reach c so an enormous amount of energy may very well get him to c. You have to use the Lorentz Factor to get the proper energy required for C.




We could calculate the energy required to both accelerate and maintain that constant speed (because the "atmosphere, which we could assume is at STP, would exert a resistance force against Goku as he flew. This constant is technically not constant as the density is varied but for the sake of simplicity, we could average that out to just STP.) So it would be an initial acceleration vector work = force * delta distance.

That plus the force required to keep the system in motion against the resistance force of the air.


Using the Lorentz factor in the 28 hour flight time is not needed and this is why: We know that Goku was able to greatly reduce the actual distance traveled to get across snake-way because he just jumped in a straight line down snakeway on his way back home. So it's not truly 621,371 miles. I did an eyeball guess with some cords I had on my desk and it looks like the snaky pattern amounts to double the length of a straight line. Goku flew, remember? He bounced and flew..but let's just assume 310,685 miles.


He flew 310,685 miles in 28 hours, right?

He did it before at a power level of 5000 (And, initially, he did the hundred+days trip at a power level of a little over 460, not 1000, like you suggested, because he died and was resurrected.)

So it would be an initial acceleration vector work = force * delta distance.

That plus the force required to keep the system in motion against the resistance force of the air. You have to use the drag formula WITH the previous formula in order to get total energy expended.


force of drag = (1/2)*density of fluid*velocity of the object in the fluid*drag coefficient (similar to a friction coefficient...it's basically the coefficient for a given object in a fluid)*orthographic projection area (this sounds complicated, but it's not. It's basically the cross-sectional area of a sphere...but for a human body, it would be a bit more than just the orthographic projection area due to the dynamics experienced by the clothes "flapping" through the fluid(atmosphere).





Anyway, what is the average velocity of Goku at 310,685 miles at 28 hours travel time? 11,095 mph. That's not fast enough to have to incorporate the Lorentz factor because it's not even percent of the Lorentz factor. It's ~.0017% c. We will probably get there when we scale up to 150,000,000.



I do not feel like doing the math but I've provided all the necessary equations and concepts needed to carry out the calculations. Someone else do it as I can't be arsed to spend an hour working this out.

People need to stop pretending power levels mean anything other than "X can beat up Y."

Sure, technically it means overall their attributes are superior, but fact of the matter is power levels were an inconsistent system and plain stupid, meant nothing.

I don't think Power Levels really correlate consistently with speed. I mean, the difference in speed between a 1,000 and a 5,000, seems more drastic than a 1,000,000 vs 5,000,000.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Awwwwwwww.





To answer the question:


Why, the speed would scale up to the c, of course!



If we assume a power level is linear in quantity and we use the 150,000,000 number for Goku, we can use that energy comparison to see how close to c Goku can get. Keep in mind that the closer to c you get, the more energy it requires. It requires an infinite amount of energy to actually reach c so an enormous amount of energy may very well get him to c. You have to use the Lorentz Factor to get the proper energy required for C.




We could calculate the energy required to both accelerate and maintain that constant speed (because the "atmosphere, which we could assume is at STP, would exert a resistance force against Goku as he flew. This constant is technically not constant as the density is varied but for the sake of simplicity, we could average that out to just STP.) So it would be an initial acceleration vector work = force * delta distance.

That plus the force required to keep the system in motion against the resistance force of the air.


Using the Lorentz factor in the 28 hour flight time is not needed and this is why: We know that Goku was able to greatly reduce the actual distance traveled to get across snake-way because he just jumped in a straight line down snakeway on his way back home. So it's not truly 621,371 miles. I did an eyeball guess with some cords I had on my desk and it looks like the snaky pattern amounts to double the length of a straight line. Goku flew, remember? He bounced and flew..but let's just assume 310,685 miles.


He flew 310,685 miles in 28 hours, right?

He did it before at a power level of 5000 (And, initially, he did the hundred+days trip at a power level of a little over 460, not 1000, like you suggested, because he died and was resurrected.)

So it would be an initial acceleration vector work = force * delta distance.

That plus the force required to keep the system in motion against the resistance force of the air. You have to use the drag formula WITH the previous formula in order to get total energy expended.


force of drag = (1/2)*density of fluid*velocity of the object in the fluid*drag coefficient (similar to a friction coefficient...it's basically the coefficient for a given object in a fluid)*orthographic projection area (this sounds complicated, but it's not. It's basically the cross-sectional area of a sphere...but for a human body, it would be a bit more than just the orthographic projection area due to the dynamics experienced by the clothes "flapping" through the fluid(atmosphere).





Anyway, what is the average velocity of Goku at 310,685 miles at 28 hours travel time? 11,095 mph. That's not fast enough to have to incorporate the Lorentz factor because it's not even percent of the Lorentz factor. It's ~.0017% c. We will probably get there when we scale up to 150,000,000.



I do not feel like doing the math but I've provided all the necessary equations and concepts needed to carry out the calculations. Someone else do it as I can't be arsed to spend an hour working this out. good god. you have a nasty tendency of making things a lot harder then they need to be, i've noticed. based on real world analogies, goku would never be able to come remotely close to achieving the speed of light, because he lacks an infinite amount of energy. and if we are using RW physics, they also state that any object with mass can NOT reach the speed of light... so goku's screwed again. but i don't think it's necessarily right to apply RW physics to characters who can shoot energy blasts out of their hands, either. just my opinion.


anyway i don't think there's a direct correlation between power levels and speed (or at least it doesn't seem as drastic) once you get beyond a certain level.

Originally posted by john allerdyce
good god. you have a nasty tendency of making things a lot harder then they need to be, i've noticed.

No, most everyone else has a tendency to oversimplify things.

Originally posted by john allerdyce
based on real world analogies, goku would never be able to come remotely close to achieving the speed of light, because he lacks an infinite amount of energy.

An "infinite amount of energy" is not required to approach relativistic velocities: only to move matter at c.


Originally posted by john allerdyce
and if we are using RW physics, they also state that any object with mass can NOT reach the speed of light... so goku's screwed again.

Did you even read my post?


Originally posted by john allerdyce
but i don't think it's necessarily right to apply RW physics to characters who can shoot energy blasts out of their hands, either. just my opinion.


Non sequitur logical fallacy: one does not necessitate the other.


Originally posted by john allerdyce
anyway i don't think there's a direct correlation between power levels and speed (or at least it doesn't seem as drastic) once you get beyond a certain level.

This is incorrect.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Non sequitur logical fallacy: one does not necessitate the other. so you are the chief authority who gets to pick and choose which RW laws they abide by, and which they don't?

or were you just posting your opinion and forgot to label it as such? if thats the case i apologize.

Originally posted by john allerdyce
so you are the chief authority who gets to pick and choose which RW laws they abide by, and which they don't?

So...

You are the chief authority who gets to pick and choose which RW laws they abide by, and which they don't?

Originally posted by john allerdyce
or were you just posting your opinion and forgot to label it as such? if thats the case i apologize.

And...

Or were you just posting your opinion and forgot to label it as such? if thats the case I apologize.


Or did you not realize how extremely hypocritical your post was?

+1 for deflection.

anyway you might take note that i wasn't the one who came in this thread and tried to apply the laws of RW physics to characters who obviously dont abide by them... nor am i the one who said: "Non sequitur logical fallacy: one does not necessitate the other"... which is what really implied that you were picking and choosing which laws these fictional characters abide by, and which ones they dont, based on your own opinion. in fact, i never even gave my opinion on the matter, so im not sure how what i said is "hypocritical"...?

anyway, i dont have a problem with you touting your intelligence regarding ftl travel... just dont act like its incontrovertible fact. especially when youre applying RW concepts to fictional characters, who abide by fictional rules.

Originally posted by john allerdyce
+1 for deflection.

I know: you just deflected with hypocritical statements instead of addressing the points.

Originally posted by john allerdyce
anyway you might take note that i wasn't the one who came in this thread and tried to apply the laws of RW physics to characters who obviously dont abide by them... nor am i the one who said: "Non sequitur logical fallacy: one does not necessitate the other"... which is what really implied that you were picking and choosing which laws these fictional characters abide by, and which ones they dont, based on your own opinion. in fact, i never even gave my opinion on the matter, so im not sure how what i said is "hypocritical"...?

Wrong, you did come into this thread and give your opinion on the matter.

And, "duh", they do not disregard every last bit of physics/science. In fact, the exception is a short list and the rule is the long list.

Originally posted by john allerdyce
anyway, i dont have a problem with you touting your intelligence regarding ftl travel...

Intelligence?

How about "education"?


Additionally, I tried to use the names of everything I brought up so any of your could google search and educate yourselves on it. That way, nothing I said would be left ambiguous and you could look it up. So, while you pretend to be offended by "knowledge", I say "look it up and stop whining."

Originally posted by john allerdyce
just dont act like its incontrovertible fact. especially when youre applying RW concepts to fictional characters, who abide by fictional rules.

Here's the same for you: don't act like there's a separate set of rules that apply when, quite clearly, most regular physics apply to their universe. This includes inertia, velocity and energy required to produce those velocities, and a general adherence to the "not faster than light" rule. The only exception we have from the Z Warriors is Goku's teleportation technique. He calls it light speed, but we the reader know differently.

I see your posts as "newbish" to the entire discussion. You're about 10 years behind.


I have an idea - stop derailing the thread to troll someone. Instead, show us the linear growth of Goku in his Power Level to speed correlation from a PL of around 460 to 5000. Thanks. What's that? You say there is not correlation? If you do, you're actually directly wrong as that's not what is read.

Originally posted by dadudemon
I know: you just deflected with hypocritical statements instead of addressing the points.

Wrong, you did come into this thread and give your opinion on the matter. negative. the only opinion i gave is when i said that i personally didnt think the speed/PL ratio seemed as drastic after the Z fighters reached a certain point.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Additionally, I tried to use the names of everything I brought up so any of your could google search and educate yourselves on it. That way, nothing I said would be left ambiguous and you could look it up. So, while you pretend to be offended by "knowledge", I say "look it up and stop whining." you presented a theorem that you felt is used in DBZ... but can you actually provide evidence that the z-universe utilizes the 'Lorentz factor' when they deal with speed..? i dont remember it ever being mentioned. nor do i ever recall a z warrior saying "i cannot reach c because i lack an infinite amount of energy". just saying.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Here's the same for you: don't act like there's a separate set of rules that apply when, quite clearly, most regular physics apply to their universe. This includes inertia, velocity and energy required to produce those velocities, and a general adherence to the "not faster than light" rule. The only exception we have from the Z Warriors is Goku's teleportation technique. He calls it light speed, but we the reader know differently. instead of limiting them via relativistic effects, dont you think its possible that they simply lack the physical prowess to move that fast? ie. they have a speed cap due to the physical limitations of their bodies, not because of anything else.

Originally posted by dadudemon
I see your posts as "newbish" to the entire discussion. You're about 10 years behind.

I have an idea - stop derailing the thread to troll someone. Instead, show us the linear growth of Goku in his Power Level to speed correlation from a PL of around 460 to 5000. Thanks. What's that? You say there is not correlation? If you do, you're actually directly wrong as that's not what is read. meh, i guess it is easier to brand someone "newbish" or a "troll", just because you dont like what they have to say - but i havent been either. dont get cranky just because i called you on a point that i feel was incorrect... that is, afterall, what debating forums revolve around.

Ahah... pointlessness.

Back to the thread; Ignoring the fact that PL doesnt have a linear growth, that DB Goku was faster than the speed we get for the first try of snake way and that even a Buu saga SSJ Gotenks was Mach 1000 at the very best then sure... maybe by SSJ he'd be lightspeed. But it'd be foolish to think like this.

Originally posted by BloodRain
Ahah... pointlessness.

Back to the thread; Ignoring the fact that PL doesnt have a linear growth, that DB Goku was faster than the speed we get for the first try of snake way and that even a Buu saga SSJ Gotenks was Mach 1000 at the very best then sure... maybe by SSJ he'd be lightspeed. But it'd be foolish to think like this.

Why would it be foolish when overall, he IS a light speedster?

...Not even going to touch that.

Originally posted by carver9
Why would it be foolish when overall, he IS a light speedster? "Goku is light speed because he is!"

Infallible logic.

Originally posted by BloodRain
...Not even going to touch that.

I want you to reply to it since we both know that a Super Saiyan is MUCH faster than a Goku that ran snake way in 28 hrs unless you honestly believe that Saiyan saga speed is>than the speed of the Goku that fought the Ginyu force and = to a Super Saiyan which would be next to half crazy.

Super Saiyan Goku speed>>>Goku speed that freshly arrived on Namek>>>Goku that took 28 hrs to cross snake way.

Do you disagree with this?

So increasing his speed makes him a light speedester?

Weaksauce.

Resist.. urge..... to debate...
Originally posted by carver9
I want you to reply to it since we both know that a Super Saiyan is MUCH faster than a Goku that ran snake way in 28 hrs unless you honestly believe that Saiyan saga speed is>than the speed of the Goku that fought the Ginyu force and = to a Super Saiyan which would be next to half crazy.

Super Saiyan Goku speed>>>Goku speed that freshly arrived on Namek>>>Goku that took 28 hrs to cross snake way.

Do you disagree with this?
1. Straw man.
2. Faulty scaling is faulty, solid calcs are solid.
3. Warning. Imminent derailment in progress. Go to the nearest emergency exit.

Originally posted by BloodRain
Resist.. urge..... to debate...

1. Straw man.
2. Faulty scaling is faulty, solid calcs are solid.
3. Warning. Imminent derailment in progress. Go to the nearest emergency exit.



Don't resist... respond to my post. I want to see that persistent bloodrain.

To elaborate on my post.. and only elaborate, Im not gonna derail this thread >:
1. Straw man; Never said that Saiyan saga>Ginyu saga=SSJ gai, I said that we can't get their exact speed from PL scaling as there isn't a direct linear correlation. Eg The speed between a PL5 and PL10 doesnt match the gap between that and PL100, or that and PL200, or that and PL5000, or that and PL24000 or that and PL500000. Faster yes (in most cases) but no direct linear increase to say anything else.
2. ^Faulty scaling, I heard its faulty. Unlike calcs that steadily show a speed increase and cap at SSJ Gotenks at Mach1000~. AKA around 0.1%c for SSJG Gotenks level characters.
3. Can't find that bloody exit.. damn Escher...

Originally posted by BloodRain
To elaborate on my post.. and only elaborate, Im not gonna derail this thread >:
1. Straw man; Never said that Saiyan saga>Ginyu saga=SSJ gai, I said that we can't get their exact speed from PL scaling as there isn't a direct linear correlation. Eg The speed between a PL5 and PL10 doesnt match the gap between that and PL100, or that and PL200, or that and PL5000, or that and PL24000 or that and PL500000. Faster yes (in most cases) but no direct linear increase to say anything else.
2. ^Faulty scaling, I heard its faulty. Unlike calcs that steadily show a speed increase and cap at SSJ Gotenks at Mach1000~. AKA around 0.1%c for SSJG Gotenks level characters.
3. Can't find that bloody exit.. damn Escher...

How is he Mach 1000 when he circled the Earth multiple of times in a couple of seconds? Just because he flew to Buu place in a minute doesn't take away from his ftl feat. He might didn't want to achieve light speed reaching Buu because it would have destroyed a portion of the planet.

How about this bloodrain... Frieza during his final stage of transforming was shooting energy attacks so fast that it was completely invisible to the necked eye/super human eyes. If you can show me one attack/blast that is that fast, someone shooting off blast that is completely invisible then that would make Frieza attack the most fastest attack in comic history (minus the attacks that took place "after" the Frieza saga". So you can use ANY character... Marvel/DC, etc, to help your case, you will never find one because Frieza attack is the true meaning of a ftl attack and if that is the case...hhhmmm.

Because that, once again, is missing a time-frame. Also look what you're saying; ''a couple of seconds'' even without a time-frame the number you're suggesting makes the feat less than SoL. FYI light can circle the Earth nine times in a second and iirc Gotenks didn't make nine loops and he didn't do it in one second. In other words he wasn't FTL.
Oh, and before I forget don't let the panel fool you, Gotenks had anything in the 29 mins to do those laps. Reason being that if it was in a few seconds Piccolo would have reached Gotenks while he was taking a nap (or so he says) long before the 30 min time-limit was up. The only way that this feat can be SoL is if Gotenks did the loops in under a second (No time-frame(you yourself admit that it looks like more than a second)) and if Piccolo had to take 29mins to get to where Gotenks was. Now unless you're suggesting that Piccolo would take 29mins to reach any point on the planet aka only Mach 33...

Really? Ok. The attack being faster then they can see means its faster then their reaction, nothing FTL can be gathered from that. Ya'know that human-sized or less object at or above 100m/s are invisible to the human eye, right? What youre asking for is the basic of almost any fiction where one superhuman gets blitzed by someone else, and as we know you need more speed to make a large object invisible to the naked eye than a smaller one. Does that make these characters FTL too?
The speed of Freeza's beams are only faster than the reactions of characters that get blitzed by things slower then SoL ie Mach 100 characters movements. Baseless and senseless to suggest FTL only because some guys couldn't react to it.

Originally posted by BloodRain
Because that, once again, is missing a time-frame. Also look what you're saying; ''a couple of seconds'' even without a time-frame the number you're suggesting makes the feat less than SoL. FYI light can circle the Earth nine times in a second and iirc Gotenks didn't make nine loops and he didn't do it in one second. In other words he wasn't FTL.
Oh, and before I forget don't let the panel fool you, Gotenks had anything in the 29 mins to do those laps. Reason being that if it was in a few seconds Piccolo would have reached Gotenks while he was taking a nap (or so he says) long before the 30 min time-limit was up. The only way that this feat can be SoL is if Gotenks did the loops in under a second (No time-frame(you yourself admit that it looks like more than a second)) and if Piccolo had to take 29mins to get to where Gotenks was. Now unless you're suggesting that Piccolo would take 29mins to reach any point on the planet aka only Mach 33...

Really? Ok. The attack being faster then they can see means its faster then their reaction, nothing FTL can be gathered from that. Ya'know that human-sized or less object at or above 100m/s are invisible to the human eye, right? What youre asking for is the basic of almost any fiction where one superhuman gets blitzed by someone else, and as we know you need more speed to make a large object invisible to the naked eye than a smaller one. Does that make these characters FTL too?
The speed of Freeza's beams are only faster than the reactions of characters that get blitzed by things slower then SoL ie Mach 100 characters movements. Baseless and senseless to suggest FTL only because some guys couldn't react to it.

HHHMMM, good point about the FTL feat of Gotenks going around the planet. As for Piccolo... he was right behind Gotenks while he was flyinf and basically lost him due to sheer speed. I'm pretty sure he had to feel where Gotenks was and THEN fly to that location which could have been difficult since Gotenks could have been anywhere on the planet. What we do know is that Gotenks flew around the planet, took a nap, etc, etc, which is faster than Mach 1000.

I guess you can't find that invisible beam for me huh? I guess you can't show me an attack that is slower than light that is invisible to the necked eye huh? How fast is Supermans heat vision? How fast can Surfer shoot a blast?

Im sorry did you take my negative view of that feat and not refute it but instead just say the reverse back at me like I supported it? Bad play sir, bad play. I'll space it out: Gotenks did 5+ loops where light does 9. Gotenks took more than a second where light takes one. Thus he can in no way be as fast as light. Hows that?
''fly to that location which could have been difficult since Gotenks could have been anywhere on the planet.''
The furthest distance Gotenks could have been from Piccolo = 20,000km. Even Namek Piccolo could find Gotenks in 5-10mins with his speed. If he took 5mins to find him then Gotenks had 25... nah lets assume that it took him 10mins instead, and that it took 5mins more to find his location and also another 5mins for Gotenks outside of the circling feat for the hell of it. That would give Gotenks 10 minutes to circle the Earth like he did. It may just be me but circling the Earth several times in 10mins doesn't really sound like FTL.

I take it by that response that you didn't actually read my post. Anything human-sized or below moving around 100m/s+ is invisible to the naked eye, things 1/3,000,000th the speed of light. Do you want me to list all the things that can move at these speeds? Oh maybe I could list every anime where a person speed-blitzes some other superhuman character?

Originally posted by BloodRain
Im sorry did you take my negative view of that feat and not refute it but instead just say the reverse back at me like I supported it? Bad play sir, bad play. I'll space it out: Gotenks did 5+ loops where light does 9. Gotenks took more than a second where light takes one. Thus he can in no way be as fast as light. Hows that?
''fly to that location which could have been difficult since Gotenks could have been anywhere on the planet.''
The furthest distance Gotenks could have been from Piccolo = 20,000km. Even Namek Piccolo could find Gotenks in 5-10mins with his speed. If he took 5mins to find him then Gotenks had 25... nah lets assume that it took him 10mins instead, and that it took 5mins more to find his location and also another 5mins for Gotenks outside of the circling feat for the hell of it. That would give Gotenks 10 minutes to circle the Earth like he did. It may just be me but circling the Earth several times in 10mins doesn't really sound like FTL.

I take it by that response that you didn't actually read my post. Anything human-sized or below moving around 100m/s+ is invisible to the naked eye, things 1/3,000,000th the speed of light. Do you want me to list all the things that can move at these speeds? Oh maybe I could list every anime where a person speed-blitzes some other superhuman character?

So I guess you can't show me what I asked you for?

You are sitting here talking about 100mps when it wasn't humans that weren't able to see Frieza attacks, it was super humans. Now again, please show me a attack that is completely invisible. You have a lot of characters to choose from.

Another thing, when Raditz dodged Piccolo attack and Piccolo said that Raditz is as fast as ????, what do you think he was going to say? Don't say speed of sound because Goku and the crew was dodging bullets since the beginning of DB... don't say the speed of lightning because PoPo stated that he was going to train Goku to be as fast as lightning. So what was Piccolo going to say?

..Wow, you're really not getting this are you? Going to say this one more time and if you give the same response Im going to start throwing pens at you.
The attack, aka the thing you want to see, is anything produced by character B that can move faster than the reactions of character A. So in actually you'll have to first prove that their reactions are FTL to state that that beam was FTL.

Lightning = hyperbole, try remember this. And we had the conversation of the name of a move including the word 'light' does not mean its lit light speed, Demon impaling light killing gun.. is that what youre getting the idea that its light speed from? Also just read through that scene and didnt see Piccolo say that Raditz is as fast as light, scan if I missed it plox?

And just for funsies; the 'ko' part in Makankosappo mean either ray, light or beam. Nothing to do with light speed...

Uh so this thread is carver beating around the bush?

Originally posted by BloodRain
..Wow, you're really not getting this are you? Going to say this one more time and if you give the same response Im going to start throwing pens at you.
The attack, aka the thing you want to see, is anything produced by character B that can move faster than the reactions of character A. So in actually you'll have to first prove that their reactions are FTL to state that that beam was FTL.

Lightning = hyperbole, try remember this. And we had the conversation of the name of a move including the word 'light' does not mean its lit light speed, Demon impaling light killing gun.. is that what youre getting the idea that its light speed from? Also just read through that scene and didnt see Piccolo say that Raditz is as fast as light, scan if I missed it plox?

And just for funsies; the 'ko' part in Makankosappo mean either ray, light or beam. Nothing to do with light speed...

I got what you said but it doesn't help the question that I am asking you. I asked if you could show me one beam that travels faster than ANYONE could see. Lol... don't throw any pens...

What I am asking you is, what was Piccolo about to say about Raditz speed when he dodged that blast? Its pretty much common sense to me.

Then the question and evidence you're asking for has nothing to do with the topic nor can it benefit anyone. The one and only thing we can gather from the beam is that its faster than a Mach100's reactions, thats it. To say its lightspeed requires more proof than youre willing to give as it seems.

http://www.mangareader.net/105-2851-5/dragon-ball/chapter-202.html
You were saying? Im not seeing where he said Raditz is as fast as...~

Makankosappo =/= light speed, as you're only going by the word 'light' in the name..

Originally posted by BloodRain
Then the question and evidence you're asking for has nothing to do with the topic nor can it benefit anyone. The one and only thing we can gather from the beam is that its faster than a Mach100's reactions, thats it. To say its lightspeed requires more proof than youre willing to give as it seems.

http://www.mangareader.net/105-2851-5/dragon-ball/chapter-202.html
You were saying? Im not seeing where he said Raditz is as fast as...~

Makankosappo =/= light speed, as you're only going by the word 'light' in the name..

Where did you get that scan? Its all jacked up or you typed that yourself. No wonder you can't find the things that I ask you for in the Manga. This is what was really said... the other statement about Raditz speed was said after this scan. Its pointless for me to ask you to post it since your latest scan was.....

http://media.animevice.com/uploads/0/5512/303413-spb2_super.jpg

I don't know where you got your scan from. Is it home made?

Urm.... mangareader? Ya'know, like the link says? O.o

Right, lets compare:
My link; "H-He avoided it! - Wha... what is he...? Th... that speed..."

Your link; "He... he sidedtepped it...!! - But no one... can move so quickly..."

What you said; "Piccolo said that Raditz is as fast as ????"


^How does what you're talking about relate to either of the above in suggesting that Piccolo said that Raditz was as fast as light? Seeing as the Maka- urgh, special beam cannon isn't FTL I'm guessing the light-speed quote is not in this scene.

Originally posted by carver9
Why would it be foolish when overall, he IS a light speedster? No hes not.

And Carver, Goku had a power level higher then 5,000 when crossing snake way the second time. He was surpressing his power level when he was fighting nappa who read it as 5,000.

He got up to 21,000 then Bulmas scouter broke.

But it should take super sayian Goku a matter of minutes.