General Ealing and Doomsday Vs. Thanos

Text-only Version: Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.



Daemon Seed
This is a fist fight no Force shields only, strength, speed, durability and healing. Who wins?

batdude123
Poor Thanos.

Daemon Seed
Originally posted by batdude123
Poor Thanos.

Are you saying Thanos loses this?

batdude123
That's what the context of my post would seem to imply, yes.

Lord Feron
Originally posted by Daemon Seed
Are you saying Thanos loses this?

nah im pretty sure he is saying "poor thanos" where will he find the space to put 2 dead losers in the back of his coup...

Zack Fair
Thanos realizes what he is up against and teleports to the nearest room. He teleports back with anti-doomsday machine gun and anti-general sniper rifle.

Thanos 10/10

Thanos cares not for the fight stips.

Philosophía
Thanos speedblitzes them. He did stop Fallen One, guys, let's not get crazy here.

Galan007
^ Which is clearly a FTL reaction feat11!!11!!! duryes

Philosophía
Clearly.

leonidas
Originally posted by batdude123
That's what the context of my post would seem to imply, yes.

damn you and your ambiguous posts.

thanos loses this one.

Daemon Seed
B-but h-he's T-t-t-thanos, c-come on... H-he is big and purple, h-he must win. right?

quanchi112
Thanos wins.

celestialdemon
Thanos loses.

Diesldude
Thanos pimp slaps himself.

Omega Vision
Team 10/10

carver9

Omega Vision
Originally posted by carver9
Just like Wonder Woman tagging Zoom and Flash huh? Clearly a FTL feat along with everyone else we use as an indication of speed when tagging Flash.
Someone's butthurt.

Hyperion Prime
If this DOS Doomsday then Thanos can take this fight and beat him and Ealing. It won't be easy, but he can do it 6/10

carver9
Originally posted by Omega Vision
Someone's butthurt.

Kind of.

Simbon
Thanos' only way of winning this is with the pimp-slap. Barring that he goes down.

Also, the General > Doomsday, and would solo Thanos.

Hyperion Prime
Originally posted by Simbon
Thanos' only way of winning this is with the pimp-slap. Barring that he goes down.

Also, the General > Doomsday, and would solo Thanos.

No way the general solos Thanos. HP Doomsday even has a hard time with Thanos. He would win, but he would not be lauging about it..he would be hurt.

Simbon
Originally posted by Hyperion Prime
No way the general solos Thanos. HP Doomsday even has a hard time with Thanos. He would win, but he would not be lauging about it..he would be hurt.

Dude, you've seen him fight, yes? There is a reason he gets beat by being marooned on asteroids or in the phantom zone. Physically, there is literally nothing Thanos can do to him.

Hyperion Prime
Originally posted by Simbon
Dude, you've seen him fight, yes? There is a reason he gets beat by being marooned on asteroids or in the phantom zone. Physically, there is literally nothing Thanos can do to him.

I am a Marvel mark, but I will be honset..I have only read about him mostly on the internet. If he is that strong he reminds me of Juggernaut who has to be Bfr to asteroids and stuff. I need to buy some of his comics. He has to have a weakness that Thanos can exploit, just like juggs has a weakness.

quanchi112
Originally posted by Simbon
Dude, you've seen him fight, yes? There is a reason he gets beat by being marooned on asteroids or in the phantom zone. Physically, there is literally nothing Thanos can do to him. What ? Show me someone general level having their way with Thanos since you seem to think Thanos has no shot since this guy gets marooned on asteroids.

Simbon
The general's only major weakness is a lack of mobility, and the fact that his mind didn't make it intact into his new body. Thanos can't beat him physically, which is what the stips for this fight would require. In a comic, he would bfr him, possibly mind-rape him, or perform some kind of molecular manipulation feat against him -- but he can't do that here. Physically, Shaggy man/the general has treated high heralds like toys.

quanchi112
Originally posted by Simbon
The general's only major weakness is a lack of mobility, and the fact that his mind didn't make it intact into his new body. Thanos can't beat him physically, which is what the stips for this fight would require. In a comic, he would bfr him, possibly mind-rape him, or perform some kind of molecular manipulation feat against him -- but he can't do that here. Physically, Shaggy man/the general has treated high heralds like toys. And what did Thanos do to the Surfer before ? Thanos is more than a high herald so I have yet to see you make a case as to why he wins.

Hyperion Prime
Originally posted by Simbon
The general's only major weakness is a lack of mobility, and the fact that his mind didn't make it intact into his new body. Thanos can't beat him physically, which is what the stips for this fight would require. In a comic, he would bfr him, possibly mind-rape him, or perform some kind of molecular manipulation feat against him -- but he can't do that here. Physically, Shaggy man/the general has treated high heralds like toys.

I can't dispute if Thanos can go toe to toe or not. I know he could go toe to toe with classic Juggernaut. I can't really comment on the General. But I will say Thanos durability and strength are remarkable.

Simbon
Originally posted by Hyperion Prime
I can't dispute if Thanos can go toe to toe or not. I know he could go toe to toe with classic Juggernaut. I can't really comment on the General. But I will say Thanos durability and strength are remarkable.

No question about Thanos' strength and durability. The General is stronger though, and like classic jugs never runs out of energy, and can't be defeated through physical combat. Thanos would put up a good fight, but the General would eventually overpower and kill him if Thanos can't beat him through the means I mentioned.

Hyperion Prime
Originally posted by Simbon
No question about Thanos' strength and durability. The General is stronger though, and like classic jugs never runs out of energy, and can't be defeated through physical combat. Thanos would put up a good fight, but the General would eventually overpower and kill him if Thanos can't beat him through the means I mentioned.

I will buy some comics, but for now I will take your word on the matter.

carver9
Thanos 6/10 possibly more.

I$suckalot
.

Hyperion Prime
Originally posted by carver9
Thanos 6/10 possibly more.

Why????? Give a reason

Simbon
Originally posted by carver9
Thanos 6/10 possibly more.

Without his other powers, what can Thanos do to Eiling? Teaming up with Doomsday is just overkill.

carver9
Thanos is stronger, more durable, and a far better fighter. His hits will hurt and hurt badly. The general body wasn't all that durable... he has amazing healing feats but he wouldn't last against someone like Thanos.

Prep-Man
Team.

Simbon
Originally posted by carver9
Thanos is stronger, more durable, and a far better fighter. His hits will hurt and hurt badly. The general body wasn't all that durable... he has amazing healing feats but he wouldn't last against someone like Thanos.

Thanos isn't stronger, and Eiling's healing factor makes anything Thanos does to him totally impotent. He could rip Eiling's arms off and it would accomplish nothing. Thanos is the one who can't last forever, not the General or Doomsday.

carver9
Originally posted by Simbon
Thanos isn't stronger, and Eiling's healing factor makes anything Thanos does to him totally impotent. He could rip Eiling's arms off and it would accomplish nothing. Thanos is the one who can't last forever, not the General or Doomsday.

The Superman that fought HP Doomsday is weaker than current Supes. I would give current Supes the edge in a fight against HP Doomsday. HP Doomsday fought a much weaker JLA.

He would not last against Thanos just like General wouldn't. I would give Supes a 7 or 8/10 against Doomsday and since I thing Thanos is >Superman... you get the point.

Eilings get punched to sleep as well and using his showings against a weaker JLA isn't going to help your case.

Prep-Man
WW 3 General pretty much stomped the stronger team of JLA. Took Orion's Astro Force and Superman's strength.

Simbon
Originally posted by carver9
The Superman that fought HP Doomsday is weaker than current Supes. I would give current Supes the edge in a fight against HP Doomsday. HP Doomsday fought a much weaker JLA.

He would not last against Thanos just like General wouldn't. I would give Supes a 7 or 8/10 against Doomsday and since I thing Thanos is >Superman... you get the point.

Eilings get punched to sleep as well and using his showings against a weaker JLA isn't going to help your case.

With Thanos denied his other powers, Eiling could win simply by grabbing Thanos in one fist and smashing the titan's head until it becomes emptied of its contents.

quanchi112
Originally posted by Simbon
With Thanos denied his other powers, Eiling could win simply by grabbing Thanos in one fist and smashing the titan's head until it becomes emptied of its contents. Based on ?

h1a8
Originally posted by carver9
Thanos 6/10 possibly more.

DD alone would as rape Thanos with ease (even allowing Thanos to use his powers). Adding in the general is super spite

Team wins 1000000000000000/10

h1a8
Originally posted by carver9
The Superman that fought HP Doomsday is weaker than current Supes. I would give current Supes the edge in a fight against HP Doomsday. HP Doomsday fought a much weaker JLA.

He would not last against Thanos just like General wouldn't. I would give Supes a 7 or 8/10 against Doomsday and since I thing Thanos is >Superman... you get the point.

Eilings get punched to sleep as well and using his showings against a weaker JLA isn't going to help your case.

I wouldn't go that far. Before the HP arc. Superman casually punched Lobo (a 1600lb being) into orbit through a highly durable alien spacecraft like tissue paper.

psycho gundam

quanchi112
Originally posted by h1a8
I wouldn't go that far. Before the HP arc. Superman casually punched Lobo (a 1600lb being) into orbit through a highly durable alien spacecraft like tissue paper. That's like saying Thor is stronger than Thanos because he once threw someone off the planet and was still seen flying.

h1a8

h1a8
Originally posted by quanchi112
That's like saying Thor is stronger than Thanos because he once threw someone off the planet and was still seen flying.
Not really. He claimed that since current Superman is stronger then he would have an edge against HP DD. My post is not trying to prove current Superman isn't stronger (that would destroy me lol) but trying to show the HP Superman was still strong as hell.

The only being I seen Thor get overpowered by was Mangog.
By overpower, I mean where the two were gripped up (like in an armwrestling match) and one overcame the other. So Thor could be stronger than Thanos or it could be so close it wouldn't matter.

IMO, Thanos is slightly stronger than Thor but a belt of strength or WM Thor is stronger than Thanos.

psycho gundam
Originally posted by h1a8
Well, it was a very impressive feat by Hulk. I never saw that one, thanks.

With that said, Superman's feat was still better since Lobo is over 10000 times more massive than the gem, Superman hit him against gravity whereas gravity was working for Hulk, The gem has a small area so that it can cut through the ground far easier than say a large being (P=F/A), after Lobo entered space he still had enough velocity to go through a highly durable and highly thick alien space like tissue paper (two thick walls and not just one).

But neglecting gravity, the feat would take about 1.5 million tons of force to pull off, give or take a 1 million tons of force. I calculated a rough estimate already. i know you're joking there, the gem cutting through the crust part was especially hilarious.

i'll let these guys tell it:

yvSTuLIjRm8&feature

you are purposely ignoring the negative acceleration due to friction, and there is a shitload of it affecting the velocity of the what...5 milligram soul gem.

carver9
Originally posted by h1a8
I wouldn't go that far. Before the HP arc. Superman casually punched Lobo (a 1600lb being) into orbit through a highly durable alien spacecraft like tissue paper.

Superman was amped when he did that... he even admits it during the time he punched Lobo. Hell, a couple of issues after this (at least 1 or 2), he Hulks up and was even afraid to touch Lois due to the fact that he was afraid of killing her.

STOP VISITING THE RESPECT THREAD AND READ THE COMICS INSTEAD.

-Pr-
Originally posted by carver9
Superman was amped when he did that... he even admits it during the time he punched Lobo. Hell, a couple of issues after this (at least 1 or 2), he Hulks up and was even afraid to touch Lois due to the fact that he was afraid of killing her.

STOP VISITING THE RESPECT THREAD AND READ THE COMICS INSTEAD.

Says the guy who thought Eradicator was Superman. mmm

psycho gundam
^ like shooting fish in a barrel

carver9
Originally posted by h1a8
Not really. He claimed that since current Superman is stronger then he would have an edge against HP DD. My post is not trying to prove current Superman isn't stronger (that would destroy me lol) but trying to show the HP Superman was still strong as hell.

The only being I seen Thor get overpowered by was Mangog.
By overpower, I mean where the two were gripped up (like in an armwrestling match) and one overcame the other. So Thor could be stronger than Thanos or it could be so close it wouldn't matter.

IMO, Thanos is slightly stronger than Thor but a belt of strength or WM Thor is stronger than Thanos.

You don't know what you are talking about.

carver9
Originally posted by -Pr-
Says the guy who thought Eradicator was Superman. mmm

Lololololololhahahahahalolololol

laughing

Pr... that was a professional mistake.

-Pr-
Originally posted by carver9
You don't know what you are talking about.

Originally posted by -Pr-
Says the guy who thought Eradicator was Superman. mmm

Originally posted by psycho gundam
^ like shooting fish in a barrel

carver9
Originally posted by psycho gundam
^ like shooting fish in a barrel

Be quiet.

mad

carver9
Originally posted by -Pr-



laughing

I swear on everything that when I read this I screamed out laughing.

Prep-Man
Originally posted by -Pr- Says the guy who thought Eradicator was Superman. mmm

lol. seriously?

carver9
Originally posted by Prep-Man
lol. seriously?

sad Eradiactor was turned around while fighting Doomsday and the only thing you really saw was the S shield. I wasn't the only one who thought Eradicator was someone else.

psycho gundam
he didn't get to superman as of yet, so there is no way you could mistake him unless you didn't read any of the material

-Pr-
Originally posted by Prep-Man
lol. seriously?

Originally posted by carver9
I agree... Superman would use his speed... what I am disagreeing with is him fighting Thanos as if he is a statue... its not happening.

How much more durable is Doomsday over Thanos and Odin? The reason I ask is because I know for a fact that Superman will not pull his punches against Doomsday and his punches weren't even budging him as seen below.

http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/7044680/Action_900_Legion_CPS_009.jpg.html

Originally posted by -Pr-
That's not Superman.

http://cdnl.complex.com/assets/images/lists/hip-hop-gifs/25-OG-Come-On-Son.gif

----

Originally posted by carver9
sad Eradiactor was turned around while fighting Doomsday and the only thing you really saw was the S shield. I wasn't the only one who thought Eradicator was someone else.

you could see his costume.

h1a8
Originally posted by psycho gundam
i know you're joking there, the gem cutting through the crust part was especially hilarious.

i'll let these guys tell it:

yvSTuLIjRm8&feature

you are purposely ignoring the negative acceleration due to friction, and there is a shitload of it affecting the velocity of the what...5 milligram soul gem. Not really, my estimate is from a bullet through a block. Many physics problems are on those. Try to look some up. Oh and the bullet through water thing helps my case. A bullet travels farther through water than a block before stopping.

h1a8
Originally posted by carver9
You don't know what you are talking about.

Ok what feats does Thanos have (could be any type of feats and not just lifting ones) that prove he is a lot more than just a little stronger than Thor?

Black bolt z
Originally posted by h1a8
Ok what feats does Thanos have (could be any type of feats and not just lifting ones) that prove he is a lot more than just a little stronger than Thor? I don't know...beating the crap outta thor?

carver9
Originally posted by h1a8
Ok what feats does Thanos have (could be any type of feats and not just lifting ones) that prove he is a lot more than just a little stronger than Thor?

You need to learn that lifting feats isn't everything that you make it out to be. Doomsday, Darkseid, Orion, Konvikt, Grundy, Shaggyman, the General, Titus, Black Adam, Captain Marvel... etc, etc, doesn't have a single lifting feat under their belts and each of these people have either taken Supes down physically or stalemated him in a physical fight.

Thanos doesn't need a lifting feat to prove that he is stronger than Thor... him stalemating Tyrant is proof enough, him lasting against Odin is proof enough, Maker, etc, etc...

Get over your lifting feat/combo to ko crap and understand CIS AND ranking.

Thanos is a villian, he has no reason to aid in moving a planet. What we do have is Thanos fighting Drax which lead to a planet exploding and we also have him and Champion fighting which lead to a planet exploding. That alone is enough proof.

Who is stronger... Doomsday or Colossus? Who is stronger, Orion or Spiderman?

h1a8
Originally posted by Black bolt z
I don't know...beating the crap outta thor? Beating someone doesn't prove stronger. Spidey can beat many stronger foes, so can batman and CA. Zoom can beat stronger foes too. Also A can beat B with blasts, which doesn't show who is stronger.

It is how one beats someone and not just the fact they beat them.

h1a8
Originally posted by carver9
You need to learn that lifting feats isn't everything that you make it out to be. Doomsday, Darkseid, Orion, Konvikt, Grundy, Shaggyman, the General, Titus, Black Adam, Captain Marvel... etc, etc, doesn't have a single lifting feat under their belts and each of these people have either taken Supes down physically or stalemated him in a physical fight.

Thanos doesn't need a lifting feat to prove that he is stronger than Thor... him stalemating Tyrant is proof enough, him lasting against Odin is proof enough, Maker, etc, etc...

Get over your lifting feat/combo to ko crap and understand CIS AND ranking.

Thanos is a villian, he has no reason to aid in moving a planet. What we do have is Thanos fighting Drax which lead to a planet exploding and we also have him and Champion fighting which lead to a planet exploding. That alone is enough proof.

Who is stronger... Doomsday or Colossus? Who is stronger, Orion or Spiderman?

Learn to read Carver. I said, "no lifting feats". Just give reasons (any) of why Thanos is more than just a little stronger than Thor.
Tryant feat doesn't do it for Thanos was amped with cube and Tyrant himself hasn't shown superior physical strength over Thor.
The Odin and Maker fights had nothing to do with physical strength. Now you are getting dumber.

carver9
Originally posted by h1a8
Learn to read Carver. I said, "no lifting feats". Just give reasons (any) of why Thanos is more than just a little stronger than Thor.
Tryant feat doesn't do it for Thanos was amped with cube and Tyrant himself hasn't shown superior physical strength over Thor.
The Odin and Maker fights had nothing to do with physical strength. Now you are getting dumber.

Uuummm... you know that orb that Thanos was carrying around during his fight against Tyrant... the one that you are using as an amp, well, he added that power onto himself... it is a part of him now.

Again, Thanos doesn't need lifting feats, him taking Skyfathers is proof enough that he is above Thor... him physically destroying Thor is proof enough of this. Him defeating Captain Marv-el as easily as he did is proof enough. Tyrant ranked him above the combined forces of Gladiator, Bill, Surfer, Terrax, along with numerous of other Heralds and Tyrant stated that Thanos was above them which was easily proven when he stalemated him whereas the Heralds got pounded on with ease, Heralds that are in Thor tier. Then we have Thanos hanging in a fight against an amped Thor that was already in a Warrior Madness state but also empowered by the power gem.

Now answer my question... who is stronger... Colossus or Doomsday?

quanchi112
Originally posted by h1a8
Learn to read Carver. I said, "no lifting feats". Just give reasons (any) of why Thanos is more than just a little stronger than Thor.
Tryant feat doesn't do it for Thanos was amped with cube and Tyrant himself hasn't shown superior physical strength over Thor.
The Odin and Maker fights had nothing to do with physical strength. Now you are getting dumber. You make zero sense and argue based off of fights alone while ignoring character matchups which prove how these guys match up against each other.

-Pr-
Originally posted by carver9
You need to learn that lifting feats isn't everything that you make it out to be. Doomsday, Darkseid, Orion, Konvikt, Grundy, Shaggyman, the General, Titus, Black Adam, Captain Marvel... etc, etc, doesn't have a single lifting feat under their belts and each of these people have either taken Supes down physically or stalemated him in a physical fight.

Umm, several of those actually do have lifting feats.

If you actually read the comics, you'd know that. erm

I'm amazed Carver. You used to ***** and ***** and ***** about how match-ups weren't valid when comparing strength, and now you've done a complete 180.

carver9
Originally posted by -Pr-
Umm, several of those actually do have lifting feats.

If you actually read the comics, you'd know that. erm

I'm amazed Carver. You used to ***** and ***** and ***** about how match-ups weren't valid when comparing strength, and now you've done a complete 180.

KMC is slowly changing me. evil face

Majority of them don't have lifting feats.

-Pr-
Originally posted by carver9
KMC is slowly changing me. evil face

Majority of them don't have lifting feats.

Oh, so it's majority now? You sure you don't want to go and double check?

psycho gundam
Originally posted by h1a8
Beating someone doesn't prove stronger. Spidey can beat many stronger foes, so can batman and CA. Zoom can beat stronger foes too. Also A can beat B with blasts, which doesn't show who is stronger.

It is how one beats someone and not just the fact they beat them. doomsday

Simbon
Carver, to say Thanos "takes Skyfathers" or "stalemated" Tyrant is hokum.

Thor is physically inferior to both Doomsday and the General. Without his other powers, it is questionable whether Thanos could put Doomsday down, and it is simply impossible for him to put the General down. I am perplexed that this is not obvious (though I respect the fact that Quan disagrees on account of his religion).

carver9
Originally posted by Simbon
Carver, to say Thanos "takes Skyfathers" or "stalemated" Tyrant is hokum.

Thor is physically inferior to both Doomsday and the General. Without his other powers, it is questionable whether Thanos could put Doomsday down, and it is simply impossible for him to put the General down. I am perplexed that this is not obvious (though I respect the fact that Quan disagrees on account of his religion).

They dnt possess the power to put Thanos down whereas the same can't be said for them. Thanos is above anyone they faced. By the end of the fight, they WILL be wrecked and wrecked seriously. Hulk>General. Hulk is FAR more powerful physically than the general and I would give Thanos almost even odds against Hulk in a fist fight.

h1a8
Originally posted by carver9
Uuummm... you know that orb that Thanos was carrying around during his fight against Tyrant... the one that you are using as an amp, well, he added that power onto himself... it is a part of him now.

Again, Thanos doesn't need lifting feats, him taking Skyfathers is proof enough that he is above Thor... him physically destroying Thor is proof enough of this. Him defeating Captain Marv-el as easily as he did is proof enough. Tyrant ranked him above the combined forces of Gladiator, Bill, Surfer, Terrax, along with numerous of other Heralds and Tyrant stated that Thanos was above them which was easily proven when he stalemated him whereas the Heralds got pounded on with ease, Heralds that are in Thor tier. Then we have Thanos hanging in a fight against an amped Thor that was already in a Warrior Madness state but also empowered by the power gem.

Now answer my question... who is stronger... Colossus or Doomsday? Why do you continue to talk about lifting feats? We don't have to use them. Ill accept punching and grappling feats. To prove you are not bias then just tell me why you think Thanos is more than just a little stronger. You can say, "because the sky is blue." as a reason.

With that said, taking anyone doesn't translate to being physically stronger. Blasts and durability against blasts doesn't translate to being stronger than X character. This is common sense. Tyrant never physically overpowered anyone. He used blasts, especially to stun Glads and then he became physical. Even Thor is strong enough to seriously damage Glads with strikes provided that Glads gets stunned first. Hulk himself can serious mess Glads up provided Glads is stunned first too.

Thor was never in WM, as the comic stated. The PG wasn't proven to even add more than 2x Thor's strength. Each specific physical thing that Thor did, a pissed off Thor could do.

And DD alone would wreck Thanos in at most a couple of pages. Fact!

-Pr-
Originally posted by carver9
They dnt possess the power to put Thanos down whereas the same can't be said for them. Thanos is above anyone they faced. By the end of the fight, they WILL be wrecked and wrecked seriously. Hulk>General. Hulk is FAR more powerful physically than the general and I would give Thanos almost even odds against Hulk in a fist fight.

I suggest you re-read the JLA arc with the General.

Simbon
Originally posted by carver9
They dnt possess the power to put Thanos down whereas the same can't be said for them. Thanos is above anyone they faced. By the end of the fight, they WILL be wrecked and wrecked seriously. Hulk>General. Hulk is FAR more powerful physically than the general and I would give Thanos almost even odds against Hulk in a fist fight.

You think Hulk could manhandle supes and orion at the same time?

-Pr-
Originally posted by Simbon
You think Hulk could manhandle supes and orion at the same time?

don't pretend you don't know the answer.

Simbon
Originally posted by -Pr-
don't pretend you don't know the answer.

I know, I typed that and then I realized: Oh yeah, this is the guy who saw Zeus destroy hulk, and subsequently concluded that Hulk would destroy him next time around.

SquallX
Originally posted by Hyperion Prime
If this DOS Doomsday then Thanos can take this fight and beat him and Ealing. It won't be easy, but he can do it 6/10

For all that is Holy, why in the blue hell you're using the weakest of all version of DD.

SquallX
Originally posted by carver9
The Superman that fought HP Doomsday is weaker than current Supes. I would give current Supes the edge in a fight against HP Doomsday. HP Doomsday fought a much weaker JLA.

He would not last against Thanos just like General wouldn't. I would give Supes a 7 or 8/10 against Doomsday and since I thing Thanos is >Superman... you get the point.

Eilings get punched to sleep as well and using his showings against a weaker JLA isn't going to help your case.

.........

psycho gundam
Originally posted by Simbon
You think Hulk could manhandle supes and orion at the same time? without a lick of speed mind you

carry on

Text-only Version: Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.