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Who wins?

hmm, this is a close one. havoc can erect some solid forcefields. for that reason i might lean slightly his way.

Gotta say it's an even fight.. Starfire's air superiority kinda even it all up..

Not sure what he can do if she just soaks him up.

Originally posted by Konton
Not sure what he can do if she just soaks him up.

couldn't he do the same?

Starfire has it every other way. Strength, flight, fighting ability, and so on. I'll take her.

Not even close Starfire outclasses Havoc in every way therefore she wins

Flight is the only power he is outclassed, dough havok can fly he just hasn't displayed maneuverability = to that of SF. Thought his base level strength is well below hers, his ability to amp those attributes kinda even it up same goes with durability, he can amp those to apoint where he can shrug off punches from high meta bricks; incredible hulk, strong guy, mimic etc etc.. without the use of force field..

I said even because havok is far superior to that of SF when it comes to direct energy absorption, infact quite a lot better advantage than flying as SF mostly means of attack is energy discharge..

yeah, she blasts him with cosmic/stellar energy and he could pretty easily absorb all of it. she can do the same. i suppose it would come down to who can absorb the best of each other. what's sf's best absorption feat? anyone? and ambient--what do you think havoc's is? i know of that scene where he absorbed all that star energy when fighting.... vulcan was it? anything better iyo?

Yeah! Got to agree with Leo there, the winner depends on the versatility of they're skills in energy manipulation.. I'm not to familiar with some of SF high end energy absorb/manipulation but as for Havok some of his more impressive energy manip. Feat where of course the star absorption feat after he fell in that stargate sat., then there's that complete draining of Hodinn; a planet wrecker and a supposed sentient star, reverting hulk to banner, using gamma rad to amp while simultaneously fighting the incredible hulk, amping using sunlight while fighting both x-men and Exiles, etc..etc

until someone posts similar feats for sf, i'll stick with havoc....

Starfire.

Starfire is more of a brawler anyways she's a 100+tonner his blasts will have little effect on her with a combo of her durability and energy absorbtion she pounds his face in

This isn't going to be an energy fight and Starfire doesn't use cosmic energy so I'm not sure what Leo is on about.

With common knowledge of each other in play, I'll bet Kory just punches him for the win. He's going to have a shitty time absorbing enough to energy to amp his own strength or erect a barrier when she was sapping Zod's army by her lonesome. Even with an absorption battle in play, she can still break a tie by taking it to him physically.

Originally posted by Konton
This isn't going to be an energy fight and Starfire doesn't use cosmic energy so I'm not sure what Leo is on about.

huh? she absorbs stellar energy to fly and can project it thanks to the psions. stellar/cosmic..... same thing to havoc.



nah. he can amp quickly and doesn't need amping to erect a force field. and nor will he be just standing there while she flies up to punch him. she'd be getting blasted. heavily. she could try brute force but the range attacks would prevent it from happening easily.

i dont think hell amp quick enough. starfire is pretty fast and strong.

She's quite a bit faster than him and he's not one shotting her before she gets to him. Sure, he amps occasionally, but it's not a normal tactic. She's a decent fighter, too. I think it'll be a physical fight more than anything.

On top of that, Havok beating Vulcan was the result of a plot device. Every time he beats him, there's a star in the vicinity.I doubt they would be fighting by a Star for him to amp himself high enough to those powerlevels to contend with Starfire physically that quickly
Starfire wins

Originally posted by YoungGunna
Starfire is more of a brawler anyways she's a 100+tonner his blasts will have little effect on her with a combo of her durability and energy absorbtion she pounds his face in
Your totally overating SF durability here, she's fallin to a lot lesser energy discharge than what Havok blast can do; ie. one shotted by an energy blast from Deathstroke, as well as Cyborgs blaster, etc..etc.. So to say Havok blast having little effect pretty much tell you know nothing about the Char.
Originally posted by Konton
This isn't going to be an energy fight and Starfire doesn't use cosmic energy so I'm not sure what Leo is on about.

With common knowledge of each other in play, I'll bet Kory just punches him for the win. He's going to have a shitty time absorbing enough to energy to amp his own strength or erect a barrier when she was sapping Zod's army by her lonesome. Even with an absorption battle in play, she can still break a tie by taking it to him physically.
??? Her body constantly absorb cosmic energy to fuel her incredible power, ala solar to Superman..

And guess what? Havok can directly absorb those energies from her bodies, just like what he did to Hulk..

http://img88.imageshack.us/img88/4583/vshulk2nz8.th.jpg

As to how fast can he do this? Almost instatneously and this is against a sentient star race..

http://img525.imageshack.us/img525/225/scan0013u.th.jpg

As for SF strength? Havok omni-directional shield should do the trick..

http://img222.imageshack.us/img222/4602/shieldblastnh2.th.jpg

Can he energy manipulate while the shield is up? Sure he can..

http://img171.imageshack.us/img171/1158/shieldblast1bs0.th.jpg

Can he tank a 100 tonner punch without shield? sure he can and might i add that is the savage Hulk in there..

http://img110.imageshack.us/img110/7996/vscollussosle4.th.jpg

http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/3852/theincrediblehulkv21501cl7.th.jpg

So what im trying to point out is, Havok's overall energy manipulation protect him from the physical beatdown that you guys like to point out and dish some punishment via my way, using her own energy as source..

Originally posted by YoungGunna
On top of that, Havok beating Vulcan was the result of a plot device. Every time he beats him, there's a star in the vicinity.I doubt they would be fighting by a Star for him to amp himself high enough to those powerlevels to contend with Starfire physically that quickly
Starfire wins
That is what is required to beat Havok which happens to be a freakin star and guess what starfire herself is a miniature star, not literally but a kin..

Win.. Win..

Originally posted by Ambient
Your totally overating SF durability here, she's fallin to a lot lesser energy discharge than what Havok blast can do; ie. one shotted by an energy blast from Deathstroke, as well as Cyborgs blaster, etc..etc.. So to say Havok blast having little effect pretty much tell you know nothing about the Char.

??? Her body constantly absorb cosmic energy to fuel her incredible power, ala solar to Superman..

And guess what Havok can directly absorb those energies from her bodies, just like what he did to Hulk..

http://img88.imageshack.us/img88/4583/vshulk2nz8.th.jpg

As to how fast can he do this? Almost instatneously and this is against a sentient star race..

http://img525.imageshack.us/img525/225/scan0013u.th.jpg

As for SF strength? Havok omni-directional shield should do the trick..

http://img222.imageshack.us/img222/4602/shieldblastnh2.th.jpg

Can he energy manipulate while the shield is up? Sure he can..

http://img171.imageshack.us/img171/1158/shieldblast1bs0.th.jpg

Can he tank a 100 tonner punch without shield? sure he can and might i add that is the savage Hulk in there..

http://img110.imageshack.us/img110/7996/vscollussosle4.th.jpg

http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/3852/theincrediblehulkv21501cl7.th.jpg

So what im trying to point out is, Havok's overall energy manipulation protect him from the physical beatdown that you guys like to point out and dish some punishment via my way, using her own energy as source..


That is what is required to beat Havok which happens to be a freakin star and guess what starfire herself is a miniature star, not literally but a kin..
Your using ABC logic just because he can absorb energy from Hulk has nothing to do with her two different powersets two different universes. When angered, Starfire can go into a berserker state, granting her even greater strength, invulnerability, and immunity to many forms of damage.So I doubt his energy would would effect her and I don't see him matching up physically with her.That same omi directional attack you say Havok can do she can do also.The Hulk fight is irrelevant the Vulcan fight would fit better for this fight because they were two energy manipulators.The Vulcan fight had a Plot device so if this doesn't Starfire could easily Speed blitz him or simply BFR him

Big, big difference between Havock's blast and DS's staff. It shoots an unknown type of energy that literally drains and weakens whoever it hits as well as usually being a MASSIVELY powerful concussion blast like Cyclops. It's got tons of weirdness that only applies to his staff.

Good fight. I'd take Havok.

Also, that's all so much bullshit about Deathstroke's staff.

He's shattered mountain rang, and then his staff got a 600x power upgrade. So, havock couldn't take a blast from it either.

Suck it, Ex.

Originally posted by YoungGunna
Starfire is more of a brawler anyways she's a 100+tonner his blasts will have little effect on her with a combo of her durability and energy absorbtion she pounds his face in

Kory is not a 100+ but I do agree if this goes hand to hand, she beats the shit out of him.

A few things need to be cleared here.

Starfire absorbs solar energy, and there is a clear distinction in both marvel and dc between cosmic energy and that of a sun. Semantics, but it can't be ignored.

However there is also the issue of people saying Starfire's strength amps with her rage, which has not ever really been depicted in a comic. You could possibly say she does more damage when she's mad, but narration has never mentioned such a power boost and counterarguments can just as easily say that she always fights angry anyway because Tamaranians are/were an emotional people.

I, personally, believe Starfire is wll into the mid 100+ class and find little substance to refute the claim. She's punched holes through skyscraper sized skeleton monsters, has a h2h record on pre-resurrection Donna Troy (who wasn't that far behind Wonder Woman, herself), she's taken a direct blow from the Astro Force, she withstood the brunt of a meteor storm in space, she defeated two Wonder Woman clones/apparitions on separate occasions, and she tore through the enchantments of the Greek gods with her bare hands. I mean, even in the beginning of Robinson's run he took the time to emphasize her strength by making Donna Troy ask Mon-El to help restrain her because she was too strong. She's been the Titan heavyweight brawler for decades; Superboy and Wonder Girl were afraid to challenge her in combat.

As for Havok draining her, it's highly improbable. Unlike Hulk, she has an active control over the flow of energy through her body. She can actively absorb radiation, energy blasts, and she's shown some resistance to electricity in classic Teen Titan trades. As I mentioned, she's done to an entire army of Kryptonians what Havoc did to Hulk.

Her own starbolts aren't exactly weak either, not that either character's energy attacks really matter here. She's torn down mountains, one shotted Braniac, used them as wedges to fly straight through cruise ships, destroyed asteroids, etc.

Originally posted by HandOfFate
Kory is not a 100+ but I do agree if this goes hand to hand, she beats the shit out of him.
Ugh yes she is shes stronger than Donna Troy do some research

Originally posted by YoungGunna
Your using ABC logic just because he can absorb energy from Hulk has nothing to do with her two different powersets two different universes. When angered, Starfire can go into a berserker state, granting her even greater strength, invulnerability, and immunity to many forms of damage.So I doubt his energy would would effect her and I don't see him matching up physically with her.That same omi directional attack you say Havok can do she can do also.The Hulk fight is irrelevant the Vulcan fight would fit better for this fight because they were two energy manipulators.
Its got its uses.. I showed you two entirely diff. scans one of Hulk and the other a high end energy manipulator to which Havok directly manipulated they're energies. Its posted to show that though this char. are not SF the main principle of how they're powers work is similar..

Again SF physical prowess is not going to be much of an issue due to the omni-directional shield top this off with his ability to multitask; shield and energy absorption applied at the same time which means she is not only exerting herself but her energy is also being absorb quit fast as showed on the scan posted, wither its an energy discharge directed at him or within a biological shell it makes no diff. Havok can absorb it.. She is going to exhaust herself rather easy while Havok only gets stronger with her as the energy source..

Originally posted by Konton
A few things need to be cleared here.

Starfire absorbs solar energy, and there is a clear distinction in both marvel and dc between cosmic energy and that of a sun. Semantics, but it can't be ignored.

As for Havok draining her, it's highly improbable. Unlike Hulk, she has an active control over the flow of energy through her body. She can actively absorb radiation, energy blasts, and she's shown some resistance to electricity in classic Teen Titan trades. As I mentioned, she's done to an entire army of Kryptonians what Havoc did to Hulk.

It makes no diff. If you wanna see him amp solar energies of the sun..

http://img216.imageshack.us/img216/2218/exiles29ff0.th.jpg

So yeah its within him to directly drained her of her own energies..

I've posted two scans in there 1 with the Hulk and the other With a high end energy manipulator that gave Rachel a run for her money and is also a clear planet destroyer which Havok pretty much completely drained.. This was to show that Havok can drain SF of her energy even if she herself is an energy manipulator unless of course you can prove that she is a much better energy manipulator than him..

You sure it was SF? or was it maxima? Scann..

Originally posted by long pig
Big, big difference between Havock's blast and DS's staff. It shoots an unknown type of energy that literally drains and weakens whoever it hits as well as usually being a MASSIVELY powerful concussion blast like Cyclops. It's got tons of weirdness that only applies to his staff.
Sure!! cept that it wasnt his staff that brought her down but a gun..

You Fanboys

i agree that sf is cl100. i just don't think that for this fight it will matter. her strength will be negated by his shields and range. she's left with blasting him (which won't work because of shields) or trying to drain him. from what i've seen posted, i still believe havoc to be the better energy manipulator of the 2 and that's where i see him winning it. i would agree it COULD go her way. he might try to battle here h2h and lose some, but i'd give him the majority out of 10. maybe 6-7/10.

Havok, clear majority. That Vulcan feat is not nearly the only eye-popping feat he has for his supposed "high meta" level.

So, Havock is way more powerful than ever thought? I seriously underestimated him. Same with Cap America. Now I know. I must change my vote to Havock. As for DS putting SF with a bullet. Two things: I was simply saying DS's staff isn't the same as Havocks blasts. 2: And heHAS one shotted SF with his staff before. That is all.

Originally posted by long pig
I must change my vote to Havock.

aww, we're happy to have you. and it's not JUST because the other side didn't want you.

I still doubt Havok can drain SF, because of speed and strength, but I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.

No. I will never agree to disagree. It's not in my nature to be rational......

Yo.

Originally posted by YoungGunna
Starfire is more of a brawler anyways she's a 100+tonner his blasts will have little effect on her with a combo of her durability and energy absorbtion she pounds his face in

I dont think shes that strong; nowhere near it really..........




Tazer

Originally posted by long pig
So, Havock is way more powerful than ever thought? I seriously underestimated him. Same with Cap America. Now I know. I must change my vote to Havock. As for DS putting SF with a bullet. Two things: I was simply saying DS's staff isn't the same as Havocks blasts. 2: And heHAS one shotted SF with his staff before. That is all.

Don't use Deathstroke as a barometer for the capabilities of any character above street level. It doesn't translate.

He shot Starfire with a bullet in one of his very first appearances; he was written to be hyped for up and coming stories.

It's like bringing up DS in a Flash or Wonder Woman thread. Stupid.

I certainly wouldn't argue that Starfire is a better energy manipulator, I'm just saying she has enough control over solar energy to keep herself from being drained and to negate a majority of his offensive blasts. It just amps her the same way it would amp him.

I agree with Pr, her overall strength and speed make for a difficult target to just try and sap. She's not a character that you could call PIS on straight forum blitzing because that's her favorite thing to do even with CIS on.

Originally posted by Tazer
Yo.



I dont think shes that strong; nowhere near it really..........




Tazer


I already addressed this. Your sentiment is unsupported by DC canon.

Yo.

so I see, however nothing U've said here:



..........point to her being DEFINITIVELY a cl100 person. thats just yur interpretation (cuz she could be cl80 and still pull that off really.) and I give kudos to U for stating that as a *belief*, not as a fact, since there arent any.

yur belief isnt any more valid than mine, nor is it *supported* by DC canon, since theres nothing that Im aware of, in any book, that says "to survive this you must be........", but if U know of something wheres its stated directly then plz share. Im just going on my feelings on the subject here, same as U are.




Tazer

You think Ms. Marvel (typically depicted as a 70-80 class) has the strength to go h2h with classic Donna Troy?

I don't think an 80 class bruiser could lock arms with Wonder Woman. Not saying Starfire is strong enough to hurt her significantly, but I don't think anything less than a 100+ class could push her back/make her fight. You could argue that it's Starfire's skill and Wondy's holding back that made it something to look at, but Wonder was furious and, while Starfire was able to trounce Themyschera's warriors in h2h Pre-Crisis and outfight Donna 2/3 times in combat, Wonder Woman has displayed more combat finess and much more frequently.

How do you refute Donna being unable tor estrain her in the recent JLA run? Mon-El had to come in and assist, and even with the two of them (both easily 100 class) he still had to remark that she was much stronger than he anticipated.

A few years back Cyborg and Flash were both shown holding her back in a Titans trade cover. Flash is no brick, but Cyborg has been 100 class since his last official upgrade and he was struggling too. It's not "in the comic" but DC canon has referenced her as being fairly strong for a long while now.

Yo.

sorry to say, but in comics it doesnt really matter too much when U get past a certain STR-lvl in regards to who can affect whom, especially when U have things like watching Cap America punch out cl20 class guys when his blows shouldnt be doing anything close to it.......and it just reminds me that STR-lvls only come into play in relation to who's writing the story & which makes for the more exciting picture. if Colossus or Thing punched Hulk, he *would* send him flying, and the same goes for yur DT/MM scenario as well.

as for the "refution scenario" U depicted above, all I can say is that Kory in general has (for the most part to me anyways) *always come off* as being stronger than Donna, so to see that happen doesnt/didnt say much.

so again, its just opinion that shes that strong, not something supported by hard fact or stated on-panel. which is fine, as long as its stated as such............




Tazer

Originally posted by long pig
So, Havock is way more powerful than ever thought? I seriously underestimated him. Same with Cap America. Now I know. I must change my vote
Glad to have you on board..

Originally posted by Konton
You think Ms. Marvel (typically depicted as a 70-80 class) has the strength to go h2h with classic Donna Troy?

I don't think an 80 class bruiser could lock arms with Wonder Woman. Not saying Starfire is strong enough to hurt her significantly, but I don't think anything less than a 100+ class could push her back/make her fight. You could argue that it's Starfire's skill and Wondy's holding back that made it something to look at, but Wonder was furious and, while Starfire was able to trounce Themyschera's warriors in h2h Pre-Crisis and outfight Donna 2/3 times in combat, Wonder Woman has displayed more combat finess and much more frequently.

How do you refute Donna being unable tor estrain her in the recent JLA run? Mon-El had to come in and assist, and even with the two of them (both easily 100 class) he still had to remark that she was much stronger than he anticipated.

A few years back Cyborg and Flash were both shown holding her back in a Titans trade cover. Flash is no brick, but Cyborg has been 100 class since his last official upgrade and he was struggling too. It's not "in the comic" but DC canon has referenced her as being fairly strong for a long while now.

Damn, I forgot about her locking it with WW. SF is def. class 100. Or slightly below that.

Originally posted by Tazer
Yo.

sorry to say, but in comics it doesnt really matter too much when U get past a certain STR-lvl in regards to who can affect whom, especially when U have things like watching Cap America punch out cl20 class guys when his blows shouldnt be doing anything close to it.......and it just reminds me that STR-lvls only come into play in relation to who's writing the story & which makes for the more exciting picture. if Colossus or Thing punched Hulk, he *would* send him flying, and the same goes for yur DT/MM scenario as well.

as for the "refution scenario" U depicted above, all I can say is that Kory in general has (for the most part to me anyways) *always come off* as being stronger than Donna, so to see that happen doesnt/didnt say much.

so again, its just opinion that shes that strong, not something supported by hard fact or stated on-panel. which is fine, as long as its stated as such............




Tazer

But if Donna has barely been below Diana for years... and Starfire has been stronger than Donna for years... then how is she not 100 class?

Yo.

I dont consider Donna to "have been barely below Diana for years", but if thats true then I suppose Mammoth (who has traded blows w/her over the years) is cl100 too then ,yes? would U have *anything* on-panel to support this?




Tazer

Donna has performed well in fist fights with Wondy, Etrigan, and evil Mary Marvel with little injury. She just recently pounded Superwoman a good one and has taken a direct hit from a nuke without flinching.

Donna is at least Supergirl level strength/durability wise.

Yo.

U could be cl50 and still affect a stronger person, as we see whenever Spidey fights Rhino, or when Rogue goes up against Juggs.

also, when has Donna taken a hit from a nuke w/o flinching? cuz I would say thats a REALLY high-end showing for somebody who got taken down by an arrow (in CfJ #6), and then theres *this* little gem:

http://img206.imageshack.us/img206/28/newteentitansv10221pp5.jpg

http://img206.imageshack.us/img206/28/newteentitansv10221pp5.jpg

now granted, Donna been dead & back a few times, as well as having gotten some power upgrades since then..........but does the above really look like a person (persons really, cuz Kory s there too) who're just under cl100 in STR??

sorry, but I cannot agree w/that........... unless DS is cl100 as well.




Tazer

Originally posted by YoungGunna
Ugh yes she is shes stronger than Donna Troy do some research

Give me a scan.

Originally posted by Tazer
Yo.

so I see, however nothing U've said here:



..........point to her being DEFINITIVELY a cl100 person. thats just yur interpretation (cuz she could be cl80 and still pull that off really.) and I give kudos to U for stating that as a *belief*, not as a fact, since there arent any.

yur belief isnt any more valid than mine, nor is it *supported* by DC canon, since theres nothing that Im aware of, in any book, that says "to survive this you must be........", but if U know of something wheres its stated directly then plz share. Im just going on my feelings on the subject here, same as U are.




Tazer

Thank you.

Originally posted by Prep-Man
Damn, I forgot about her locking it with WW. SF is def. class 100. Or slightly below that.

If you reread the issue you will see that Diana was holding back and when she was about to get serious, Dick stepped in.

I really like Kory but calling her a Class 100 is pushing it. At most she around Ms. Marvel level (close to 80 tons). Also, strength is not the thing that gonna win the fight for Kory here

Originally posted by HandOfFate
If you reread the issue you will see that Diana was holding back and when she was about to get serious, Dick stepped in.

I really like Kory but calling her a Class 100 is pushing it. At most she around Ms. Marvel level (close to 80 tons). Also, strength is not the thing that gonna win the fight for Kory here

that's why I said slightly below that. Still, Kory is pretty strong.

Originally posted by Prep-Man
that's why I said slightly below that. Still, Kory is pretty strong.

I totally agree, Kory is really strong but she ain't no Class 100. I can easily see Kory pushing 80 ton mark.....personally, I think they Ms. Marvel is Kory.

Yep, that's probably around her strength level, Ms Marvel.

Donna's nuke tanking feat is in the Wondergirl/Donna Troy respect thread.

You can't post feats of Deathstroke beating teams and say it's a good way to quantify durability or strength. You just f*cking can't. Is he faster than Flash? Is he stronger than Wondy? He's beaten both. It's a stupid argument.

Kory isn't 80 class. Let me try and reason with you.

There are several strength classes and there is a great difference between class 100 and class 100+.

100+ is inclusive of beings like Wonder Woman, Superman, MM, etc.

It doesn't mean they can lift 100 tons, it means that the amount of weight and force they can generate tops and exceeds the charts to the point of using numbers anymore being unreasonable. While these guys edge toward the higher end of the 100+ class, there are still characters in the 100+ class that don't come near to the heavyweights.

Starfire's encounter with Donna and Mon-el (a middle end 100+ and a higher tier 100+) should insinuate that she is, at the very least, a low end 100 tonner. An 80 class wouldn't even require one 100 class brick to hold her back, let alone another - even stronger - one. The logic wouldn't translate. Diana, for instance, held Supergirl by the neck at one point like she was nothing. Both are clearly in excess of the 100 ton benchmark, and yet the lower end 100+ couldn't even budge.

Ms. Marvel, although strong for her team, has never really registered any higher tier strength feats to suggest she is above the 70-ish range. Her durability has always been ahead of her strength anyhow. She didn't have the strength to take down Hulk's skrull, but she did have the durability to withstand his blows while BFR-ing him because it was her only option.

Yo.

I agree that posting DS defeating teams wouldnt be a good way to quantify durability or STR..........but in the page I posted he out-muscled Donna when matched on an even level (or rather, he chumped her USING STRENGTH). in an argument like this, it becomes a valid showing given that hes NOWHERE NEAR her lvl of STR.

as for that "nuke tanking" -clip, Im afraid thats not really accurate given: 1) she was a *good* distance away, 2) we see around her that other structures have withstood the blast as well, and 3) neither her nor Ray were singed at all; saying she took the brunt of the shockwave as U state in that 9th post of the "feat" was the more honest way to put it really, but thats (also) not something which says "cl100".

but I'll say this: I actually did some digging and DC apparently stands by the assertion that shes cl100 since they have her labeled as such on her wikia entry (altho it still doesnt show on-panel).




Tazer

Originally posted by Konton
Starfire's encounter with Donna and Mon-el (a middle end 100+ and a higher tier 100+) should insinuate that she is, at the very least, a low end 100 tonner. An 80 class wouldn't even require one 100 class brick to hold her back, let alone another - even stronger - one. The logic wouldn't translate. Diana, for instance, held Supergirl by the neck at one point like she was nothing. Both are clearly in excess of the 100 ton benchmark, and yet the lower end 100+ couldn't even budge.


Thing Vs. Hulk, proves that Class 80 to 90 tons can hang with 100+ tons. All we're dealing with here is an assumption by you. Unless you have actual pictures showing her using Class 100 strength, then she is not Class 100.

I'm actually not sure why your pushing it so much. There nothing wrong with her being in the 50 to 80 tons range. Not every DC hero need to lift a skyscraper.


Originally posted by Tazer
Yo.


but I'll say this: I actually did some digging and DC apparently stands by the assertion that shes cl100 since they have her labeled as such on her wikia entry (altho it still doesnt show on-panel).

Tazer

I wouldn't trust Wikia as far as I can see it. I personally need proof in the comics.

it'd always been my impression that she was low-level cl100--or close enough that the difference doesn't matter. not that i think it will be the definitive piece of this fight though.....

Yo.

Originally posted by HandOfFate
I wouldn't trust Wikia as far as I can see it. I personally need proof in the comics.

same here, Im just coming clean that the company which puts out the books DT appears in seem to consider her thus, not that its changed *my* opinion of her performance capability..........

just being honest & fair here is all.




Tazer

Originally posted by Tazer
Yo.

I agree that posting DS defeating teams wouldnt be a good way to quantify durability or STR..........but in the page I posted he out-muscled Donna when matched on an even level (or rather, he chumped her USING STRENGTH). in an argument like this, it becomes a valid showing given that hes NOWHERE NEAR her lvl of STR.

as for that "nuke tanking" -clip, Im afraid thats not really accurate given: 1) she was a *good* distance away, 2) we see around her that other structures have withstood the blast as well, and 3) neither her nor Ray were singed at all; saying she took the brunt of the shockwave as U state in that 9th post of the "feat" was the more honest way to put it really, but thats (also) not something which says "cl100".

but I'll say this: I actually did some digging and DC apparently stands by the assertion that shes cl100 since they have her labeled as such on her wikia entry (altho it still doesnt show on-panel).

Tazer


You realize that the fact that DS is outclassed in strength means him outmuscling her is PIS, right? DS team busting feats are PIS. Stop talking about them because they aren't acceptable evidence.

Donna recently smashed Superwoman's face in all bloody like. She's class 100 easy.

Also... I don't think reading wikipedia really equates to "doing some digging."

Originally posted by HandOfFate
Thing Vs. Hulk, proves that Class 80 to 90 tons can hang with 100+ tons. All we're dealing with here is an assumption by you. Unless you have actual pictures showing her using Class 100 strength, then she is not Class 100.

I'm actually not sure why your pushing it so much. There nothing wrong with her being in the 50 to 80 tons range. Not every DC hero need to lift a skyscraper.




I wouldn't trust Wikia as far as I can see it. I personally need proof in the comics.

Thing is class 100.

The feats I've mentioned are all in her respect thread. You're just ignoring them and agreeing with the guy throwing Deathstroke feats around like they have any weight in a logical argument. Just because a character hasn't lifted a skyscraper doesn't mean one isn't class 100 or even 100+. Lifting feats aren't all that common.

I'm not pushing it because I'm biased, I'm pushing it because I'm not wrong.

Sure, Havok is probably the better bet of the two if she doesn't blitz him. She's still 100 class.

Yo.

Originally posted by Konton
You realize that the fact that DS is outclassed in strength means him outmuscling her is PIS, right? DS team busting feats are PIS. Stop talking about them because they aren't acceptable evidence.

Donna recently smashed Superwoman's face in all bloody like. She's class 100 easy.

Also... I don't think reading wikipedia really equates to "doing some digging."

if it only happened once I would agree, however the fact that DS chumps ppl vastly more powerful than him on a regular basis should mean that perhaps its *not* all PIS, especially given that the feats where he tends to shine in are pretty limited.

so no, using that scene to debunk yur "feelings" on the matter shouldnt count as unacceptable evidence, especially since Ive been the only 1 of us to provide any actual evidence (ex: going by a technicallity, U havent shown ANYTHING ON PANEL which states Superwoman *or* DT are cl100; just cuz it looks that way doesnt make it fact. it has to be stated) towards an argument.

also, I said "wikia", not "wiki"; I actually tried to find her "Whos Who" entry, but wasnt successful.

Originally posted by Konton
Thing is class 100.

The feats I've mentioned are all in her respect thread. You're just ignoring them and agreeing with the guy throwing Deathstroke feats around like they have any weight in a logical argument. Just because a character hasn't lifted a skyscraper doesn't mean one isn't class 100 or even 100+. Lifting feats aren't all that common.

I'm not pushing it because I'm biased, I'm pushing it because I'm not wrong.

really? since when? wat issue stated that Thing was cl100?

I hardly think using 1 DS-feat counts as "throwing them around", but watever.........

also, U might BE right, but U have yet to actually PROVE it. saying "X fought Y" doesnt count as proof, since going by that argument Cap should be atleast cl30 sincehe beat the snot outta US Agent, and we KNOW hes atleast cl20 (results of those who have had the Power Broker -treatments was actually stated ON PANEL).........but we know this isnt true, right?

so again, wheres the proof comrade?




Tazer