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While facing only opponents in the Meta Tier and below, is there anyone there can defeat most of the characters here as easily as Cloak?

Stealth+BFR to the Dark Dimension; it seems he could beat almost everyone in the Meta Tier and below with this strategy (he would have to be patient and wait for the right moment with some of them though)...


So, who in the in the Meta Tier and below, can defeat such a wide array of opponents as easily as this without prep being a factor?

might want to try explaining that logic to Carnage

EDIT: no, any character with even reasonable mobility should be able to avoid the BFR

You think Carnage can take out other Meta's with the same ease that Cloak could?

Most opponents wouldnt even be able to fight back against Cloak...let alone have a chance of victory.

I think Cloak could take out Carnage every single time with this very tactic...

How could they avoid the BFR if he uses stealth to sneak up on them?

He could just materialize right behind them and swallow them up; hell in the right situation, he could materialize right infront of them and its all over...

Blink

Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
I think Cloak could take out Carnage every single time with this very tactic...

you haven't read Maximum Carnage have you?

Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
How could they avoid the BFR if he uses stealth to sneak up on them?

He could just materialize right behind them and swallow them up; hell in the right situation, he could materialize right infront of them and its all over...

Cloaks TP isn't instantaneous, and people have escaped it fairly easily in the past.

Originally posted by Parmaniac
Blink

CIS off, great choice

A CISless Spot would also be a horrifiyng opponent.

Originally posted by Parmaniac
Blink

616 no...
Aoa and exiles blink... Omfg

Originally posted by Parmaniac
A CISless Spot would also be a horrifiyng opponent.

very true

not to say Cloak wouldn't also be terrible.

Actually, anyone with quick TP like that, especially CIS off, Nightcrawler too

Originally posted by rotiart
616 no...
Aoa and exiles blink... Omfg

I was actually thinking about the one from Necronosha....

No, I havent read Maximum Carnage; have they fought in that comic before?

And while its true that people have escaped being BFR'ed, I would think that he'd catch an opponent "slippin" eventually and BFR him/her/it...


Blink is a very good choice, but she doesnt have stealth ability as does Cloak, nor does she have the inherent durability that he does...if she makes one mistake, most opponents can kill her...Cloak couldnt be defeated as easily.

Originally posted by rotiart
616 no...
Aoa and exiles blink... Omfg I was more or less assuming CIS off because Cloak wouldn't beat many metas with CIS on.

Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
No, I havent read Maximum Carnage; have they fought in that comic before?


I only have physical copies of the issues, so I'm getting some scans as we speak, hopefully soon... lol

but yes, Cloak tried essentially this move on Carnage, and got wtf pwnd.

actually, even with all the TPers we have mentioned, a CISless blink, imho, still doesn't take a full 10/10 against Carnage...

Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
Blink is a very good choice, but she doesnt have stealth ability as does Cloak, nor does she have the inherent durability that he does...if she makes one mistake, most opponents can kill her...Cloak couldnt be defeated as easily.

Blink vs Holocaust:

Originally posted by inimalist
He is fast enough to keep up with Blink for some time :

http://img822.imageshack.us/img822/7015/astonishingxmen041995pu.jpg
http://img217.imageshack.us/img217/7015/astonishingxmen041995pu.jpg
http://img577.imageshack.us/img577/7015/astonishingxmen041995pu.jpg

Cloak would be destroyed by Holocaust

CIS is definitely off here; I should have stated that in the OP...

Originally posted by inimalist
actually, even with all the TPers we have mentioned, a CISless blink, imho, still doesn't take a full 10/10 against Carnage... Why? She can directly teleport him into the sun.

Originally posted by Parmaniac
Why? She can directly teleport him into the sun.

she could

idk, I just don't see her taking a full ten. a solid majority for sure, but carnage could carve anyone mentioned here into shreds in seconds

imho, they could, but would have to fight flawlessly to avoid being ribbons.

See thats the problem I have with even a CIS'less Blink; she has no room for error...she cant take hits...she can be killed easily.

One blow from Carnage or almost any other Meta that lands flush kills her outright; again, Cloak doesnt have this problem and Cloak has the additional advantage of possessing actual stealth ability...

And yeah, Carnage might be able to beat Cloak, but can a CIS'less Carnage beat other Meta's as easily as a CIS'less Cloak can? That is the question this thread asks...and I honestly think the anwer is no.

Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
And yeah, Carnage might be able to beat Cloak, but can a CIS'less Carnage beat other Meta's as easily as a CIS'less Cloak can? That is the question this thread asks...and I honestly think the anwer is no.

I used Carnage as an example of why Cloak might not be as able to defeat opponents as easily as you think

What are some of Cloak's better stealth feats?

I havent read a comic with Cloak in it in quite some time, but off the top of my head he used stealth to sneak up on Thanos and BFR'ed him to the Dark Dimension...

stealth, cant cloak become intangible? he doesnt need stealth

How did Carnage "beat" Cloak? Because I call HEAVY BS on that one.

Honestly not sure if he can become intangible or not; I cant recall him ever doing so at anyrate...

Originally posted by zopzop
How did Carnage "beat" Cloak? Because I call HEAVY BS on that one.

I would imagine because the fight occured in a "Maximum Carnage" comic...

But I agree, sans PIS, its hard for me to see Carnage beating Cloak...

LOL... oh man, you guys are going to hate these scans then

at least at the time of MC, cloak could no go intangible. Sneaking up on Thanos is a good feat, but if we are going to start calling stuff PIS, I might start there

through the entirety of MC cloak is unable to send any of the villains to the dark dimension, despite trying several times. and, my bad, it is Shriek, not Carnage, who wtf pwns Cloak

Ah...

Well if Cloak was unable to send anyone to the Dark Dimension, then he had something going on with him that depowered him...

And under those circumstances, I can see Skriek (or Carnage) beating him; but beating a Cloak that cant BFR you isnt the same as facing the Cloak in this thread (which has full access to all his powers) now is it?

he was not depowered

lol, you dont like it so you make up nonsense?

/ffs

Well why was he unable to BFR opponents to the Dark Dimension then?

We all know that is his primary power, so what was going on that made him unable to do so?

No matter how you spin it, if he was unable to BFR opponents, then he wasnt operating at full power...

he wasn't able to because they escaped...

and it is stated nowhere that cloak is operating at anything less than full power. Without any sort of reason to believe that, you are just making stuff up...

So, lets start with the children in the Carnage Family:

Carrion slips right through, though, he has some degree of intangibility, so that is understandable :

http://img863.imageshack.us/img863/7538/webofspiderman10322.th.jpg

Demogoblin appears to fall right through Cloak's cloak here, certainly not contained within it :

http://img818.imageshack.us/img818/4051/spiderman03620.th.jpg

Doppelganger moves around too much for Cloak to contain :

http://img543.imageshack.us/img543/2691/webofspiderman10215.th.jpg

The Papa of the family, Carnage, escapes with no problem. Oh look, Cloak is behind him too!!!!! So, sneaking up on Carnage, as per on panel showings, is not going to give Cloak a win :

http://img84.imageshack.us/img84/5701/spiderman03519.th.jpghttp://img51.imageshack.us/img51/9776/spiderman03520.th.jpg

And finally, Mama Shriek escapes with ease :

http://img811.imageshack.us/img811/8057/webofspiderman10117.th.jpg

Oh, and ya, wtfpwns Cloak :

http://img232.imageshack.us/img232/9717/spectacularspiderman202.th.jpghttp://img14.imageshack.us/img14/9717/spectacularspiderman202.th.jpghttp://img27.imageshack.us/img27/9717/spectacularspiderman202.th.jpg

though, I suppose you can make up whatever you want to hand wave this away....

You stated that during Maximum Carnage, Cloak was unable to send any of his opponents to the Dark Dimension...

Why was he unable to do this to them?

because they escaped as he tried, as I've provided in the scans...

Bah...

He let Shriek go; with CIS off, he could keep her there forever and there isnt a dam thing she could do to stop it...

Carnage never actually got BFR'ed; to appears to use webbing to escape before being consumed...

And that other guy was intangible, so he wasnt BFR'ed...


With CIS off, after a failed attempt to BFR an opponent, whats to stop him from starting over...using stealth to get the advantage, and then attempting to BFR his opponent? He can repeat this again and again until he gets them...

Whats there to stop this?

In a comic (obviously with CIS on) he doesnt do this, but with CIS off, he dam well could and would until he's got you...

Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
With CIS off, after a failed attempt to BFR an opponent, whats to stop him from starting over...using stealth to get the advantage, and then attempting to BFR his opponent? He can repeat this again and again until he gets them...

Whats there to stop this?

nothing

it certainly isn't the guaranteed win you make it out to be though, as many characters can get around it, and Cloak isn't invulnerable

EDIT: you do realize I said earlier that Cloak would be incredibly effective at this, up there with Blink, Spot and Nightcrawler, ya? My point is that he isn't going to just BFR everyone because he has some unavoidable attack...

and no, I don't think he would be as effective as Blink

Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
He let Shriek go; with CIS off, he could keep her there forever and there isnt a dam thing she could do to stop it...

in the second of the two Shriek scans, yes. In the former, she escapes

the one where she fights him, ya, you are right, but I wasn't using those as proof shriek could escape

Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
Carnage never actually got BFR'ed; to appears to use webbing to escape before being consumed...

exactly my point

what if cloak just does what he did in civil war? what is carnage or for that matter anyone in that tier gunna stop that?

what did he do in civil war?

He isnt invulnerable, but if he materializes only to attempt to BFR you (which would be in a situation where he has the advantage; he wouldnt materialize otherwise) and goes back into stealth mode if he fails, then his opponents dont have much of a window to get hits in...

And he is durable enough not to be one shotted by most of, if not all of, the characters in the Meta Tier...


And yes, it wont always be easy to defeat his opponents with this tactic; the ones with intangibility or super reflexes/speed have a much better chance than those who do not...

But we go back to the question in the OP, who else could beat the other characters in the Meta Tier and below with less effort than Cloak could?

Most characters in the Meta Tier and Below do not have super speed/reflexes and intangibility; those characters would be in trouble against Cloak...and sans CIS...would be defeated pretty easily.

These same characters likely would give someone like Carnage more trouble than they would Cloak...

Originally posted by inimalist
what did he do in civil war?
he suck up (made him selve enormous) every single hero fighting eachother in side the registration side base and teleported them on to a random street in new york city.

There nothing they could do to stop him from doing it.

Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
He isnt invulnerable, but if he materializes only to attempt to BFR you (which would be in a situation where he has the advantage; he wouldnt materialize otherwise) and goes back into stealth mode if he fails, then his opponents dont have much of a window to get hits in...

And he is durable enough not to be one shotted by most of, if not all of, the characters in the Meta Tier...


And yes, it wont always be easy to defeat his opponents with this tactic; the ones with intangibility or super reflexes/speed have a much better chance than those who do not...

But we go back to the question in the OP, who else could beat the other characters in the Meta Tier and below with less effort than Cloak could?

Most characters in the Meta Tier and Below do not have super speed/reflexes and intangibility; those characters would be in trouble against Cloak...and sans CIS...would be defeated pretty easily.

These same characters likely would give someone like Carnage more trouble than they would Cloak...

Blink would give Carnage more trouble than Cloak

Blink would beak Cloak

also, cloak doesn't have "invisibility"... he is able to pop in and out by traveling through the Dark Dimension. If he just "went stealth", he would be BFRing himself

Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan
he suck up (made him selve enormous) every single hero fighting eachother in side the registration side base and teleported them on to a random street in new york city.

There nothing they could do to stop him from doing it.

though, the scans I posted showed people escaping from him

seems like we have an impasse

Your scans also featured characters with abilities that allowed them to escape being consumed; most characters (even some Herald Levelers) cant escape Cloak so easily...

Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
Your scans also featured characters with abilities that allowed them to escape being consumed; most characters (even some Herald Levelers) cant escape Cloak so easily...

yes, this is true...

Spider-Man and characters with enhanced mobility, as I outlined in my first post of this thread, should be able to avoid the BFR

Man-Thing, not so much

hmmm, looking at comicvine you might be right about some of Cloaks powers... whether they changed them since the MC saga or if the writers just didn't include them... interesting

http://img821.imageshack.us/img821/1029/theofficialhandbookofth.th.jpg http://img818.imageshack.us/img818/1029/theofficialhandbookofth.th.jpg

Unless his powers were beaten sodomized by the nerf bat recently, those Spiderman scans are PURE 100% unfiltered PIS.

Originally posted by zopzop
http://img821.imageshack.us/img821/1029/theofficialhandbookofth.th.jpg http://img818.imageshack.us/img818/1029/theofficialhandbookofth.th.jpg

Unless his powers were beaten sodomized by the nerf bat recently, those Spiderman scans are PURE 100% unfiltered PIS.

I'm sorry, what is that supposed to show?

that those SM scans were pis, which they were

?

there is nothing in there that suggests that one can't escape from Cloak...

Blink was already said.

Ambrose Chase, Invisible Woman and Multiple Man are all contenders as well.

Originally posted by inimalist
I'm sorry, what is that supposed to show?

Since reading and reading comprehension is hard, it supposed to show his "classic" powerset. He's been able to engulf entire warehouses in an impenetrable darkness, he's opened portals to the Dark Dimension large enough to swallow an entire subway train, he's completely intangible unless through an act of will he assumes corporeal form, living things transported to the Dark Dimension who aren't protected mystically somehow are drained of their life force and if left there long enough they die. You can't just "struggle" your way out of his "cloak" if he envelopes you, you are literally teleported into the Dark Dimension and unless you have some way of escaping like opening up your own portals or teleporting interdimensionally you are basically fu..ed.

So unless he was nerfed, those Spiderman scans are PIS.

Originally posted by zopzop
Since reading and reading comprehension is hard, it supposed to show his "classic" powerset. He's been able to engulf entire warehouses in an impenetrable darkness, he's opened portals to the Dark Dimension large enough to swallow an entire subway train, he's completely intangible unless through an act of will he assumes corporeal form, living things transported to the Dark Dimension who aren't protected mystically somehow are drained of their life force and if left there long enough they die. You can't just "struggle" your way out of his "cloak" if he envelopes you, you are literally teleported into the Dark Dimension and unless you have some way of escaping like opening up your own portals or teleporting interdimensionally you are basically fu..ed.

So unless he was nerfed, those Spiderman scans are PIS.

can you provide scans to show this? apart from the fact that he made a 4000 sq ft cloak, or absorbed a subway train, none of what you say is substantiated by the handbook

Originally posted by zopzop
Since reading and reading comprehension is hard, it supposed to show his "classic" powerset. He's been able to engulf entire warehouses in an impenetrable darkness, he's opened portals to the Dark Dimension large enough to swallow an entire subway train, he's completely intangible unless through an act of will he assumes corporeal form, living things transported to the Dark Dimension who aren't protected mystically somehow are drained of their life force and if left there long enough they die. You can't just "struggle" your way out of his "cloak" if he envelopes you, you are literally teleported into the Dark Dimension and unless you have some way of escaping like opening up your own portals or teleporting interdimensionally you are basically fu..ed.

So unless he was nerfed, those Spiderman scans are PIS.



....i like you

Originally posted by inimalist
can you provide scans to show this? apart from the fact that he made a 4000 sq ft cloak, or absorbed a subway train, none of what you say is substantiated by the handbook

The Handbook doesn't state that you are transported into ANOTHER DIMENSION called the Dark Dimension? The Handbook doesn't state that living things are drained of their life force and if left there long enough will die? What doesn't it state.

Originally posted by zopzop
The Handbook doesn't state that you are transported into ANOTHER DIMENSION called the Dark Dimension? The Handbook doesn't state that living things are drained of their life force and if left there long enough will die? What doesn't it state.

ok, you are right, I meant to say that nothing you posted suggests that someone couldn't escape from being drawn into Cloak

Originally posted by inimalist
ok, you are right, I meant to say that nothing you posted suggests that someone couldn't escape from being drawn into Cloak

Of course they can escape if they can teleport between dimensions. If they are fast enough they can avoid being enveloped by him, but once inside, you are screwed unless you can tp between realms.

Originally posted by zopzop
Of course they can escape if they can teleport between dimensions. If they are fast enough they can avoid being enveloped by him, but once inside, you are screwed unless you can tp between realms.

thats been my point the entire time...

that it isn't impossible to escape...

that it isn't just a "win" button...

Originally posted by inimalist
thats been my point the entire time...

that it isn't impossible to escape...

that it isn't just a "win" button...


true, but its nigh impossible to avoid as per seen in civil war which is a very good depiction of what he's capable of doing...since none of those heroes or villians could do jack about it

Originally posted by Sin I AM
true, but its nigh impossible to avoid as per seen in civil war which is a very good depiction of what he's capable of doing...since none of those heroes or villians could do jack about it

can you posts scans of any other scene that suggests it is "nigh impossible"

if you want, we can talk about the Civil War feat, where he surprises a group of people who weren't expecting it, vs a forum fight, where such teleporting is included in common knowledge of your opponent

not to mention, all the people cloak was porting were busy fighting other people, likely making it much harder to get away

EDIT: also, if you want to talk about what is plot induced... a series of fights ranging over a number of issues in a series or a single instance at the end of an event that was necessary to move the plot forward... which one sounds like PIS to you?

Originally posted by inimalist
can you posts scans of any other scene that suggests it is "nigh impossible"

if you want, we can talk about the Civil War feat, where he surprises a group of people who weren't expecting it, vs a forum fight, where such teleporting is included in common knowledge of your opponent

not to mention, all the people cloak was porting were busy fighting other people, likely making it much harder to get away

EDIT: also, if you want to talk about what is plot induced... a series of fights ranging over a number of issues in a series or a single instance at the end of an event that was necessary to move the plot forward... which one sounds like PIS to you?

What's stopping Cloak from enveloping a huge swath of the battlefield in absolute darkness, then sneaking up (he's intangible hence no sound or smell) behind the opponent and tping him inside the Dark Dimension. Unless they can tp out somehow they are now fugged. Fight over.

Actually, maybe I'd argue that Psylocke fits this thread best.

Originally posted by zopzop
What's stopping Cloak from enveloping a huge swath of the battlefield in absolute darkness, then sneaking up (he's intangible hence no sound or smell) behind the opponent and tping him inside the Dark Dimension. Unless they can tp out somehow they are now fugged. Fight over.

well ya, on the first page Parmaniac and I are talking about how TPers would be very effective in fighting the meta tier

the only other way would be high mobility, or precognition. So, like, spiderman could probably do it, or the symbiotes, quicksilver, etc.

I'm not trying to take anything away from cloak, I just don't think his cloak enveloping trick would be as effective as Blink...

I think thats all I've really tried to argue

Originally posted by Existere
Actually, maybe I'd argue that Psylocke fits this thread best.

I was actually thinking about that earlier too

Originally posted by inimalist
I was actually thinking about that earlier too I mean, given that she's one of the few competent telepaths and telekinetics, in addition to being able to hang with all the top tiers when it comes down to MA ability. Plus her psychic knives can basically one-shot anybody with a normal human psyche.

Originally posted by Existere
Actually, maybe I'd argue that Psylocke fits this thread best.


This is cool, but i disagree with your multiple man one

Originally posted by Existere
I mean, given that she's one of the few competent telepaths and telekinetics, in addition to being able to hang with all the top tiers when it comes down to MA ability. Plus her psychic knives can basically one-shot anybody with a normal human psyche.

exactly, and unlike the TPers, being highly mobile really isn't a counter for her powers...

I suspect speedsters could still give her trouble... could she react to someone like quicksilver fast enough?

EDIT: Is Mimic a Meta? because he would do well here too

Originally posted by inimalist
So, lets start with the children in the Carnage Family:

Carrion slips right through, though, he has some degree of intangibility, so that is understandable :

http://img863.imageshack.us/img863/7538/webofspiderman10322.th.jpg

Demogoblin appears to fall right through Cloak's cloak here, certainly not contained within it :

http://img818.imageshack.us/img818/4051/spiderman03620.th.jpg

Doppelganger moves around too much for Cloak to contain :

http://img543.imageshack.us/img543/2691/webofspiderman10215.th.jpg

The Papa of the family, Carnage, escapes with no problem. Oh look, Cloak is behind him too!!!!! So, sneaking up on Carnage, as per on panel showings, is not going to give Cloak a win :

http://img84.imageshack.us/img84/5701/spiderman03519.th.jpghttp://img51.imageshack.us/img51/9776/spiderman03520.th.jpg

And finally, Mama Shriek escapes with ease :

http://img811.imageshack.us/img811/8057/webofspiderman10117.th.jpg

Oh, and ya, wtfpwns Cloak :

http://img232.imageshack.us/img232/9717/spectacularspiderman202.th.jpghttp://img14.imageshack.us/img14/9717/spectacularspiderman202.th.jpghttp://img27.imageshack.us/img27/9717/spectacularspiderman202.th.jpg

though, I suppose you can make up whatever you want to hand wave this away.... Indisputable proof.

Originally posted by Sin I AM
This is cool, but i disagree with your multiple man one Then you're thinking in the box. Originally posted by inimalist
exactly, and unlike the TPers, being highly mobile really isn't a counter for her powers...

I suspect speedsters could still give her trouble... could she react to someone like quicksilver fast enough?

EDIT: Is Mimic a Meta? because he would do well here too Well, telepathy helps her reactions as she can see her opponents moves ahead of time. So if the speedster is fast enough for her not to process a response despite ninja reflexes and telepathy, then she's boned. Still, unlike most telepaths, she's not a glass cannon and can take a hit pretty well.

She's basically a jedi.

Originally posted by Existere
Well, telepathy helps her reactions as she can see her opponents moves ahead of time. So if the speedster is fast enough for her not to process a response despite ninja reflexes and telepathy, then she's boned. Still, unlike most telepaths, she's not a glass cannon and can take a hit pretty well.

She's basically a jedi.

alright, cool



Whats your take of a CIS off match between Psyloche and Blink?

Originally posted by Existere
Then you're thinking in the box.




educate me then...and tell me how MM can defeat the maj of the meta tier

Originally posted by inimalist
alright, cool



Whats your take of a CIS off match between Psyloche and Blink? Edge to Psylocke if she goes for instant telepathic shut down.

It'd be a quickdraw scenario, and I'd bet on Psylocke's ninja reflexes before Blinks (which are still battle-honed and all that, so it'd be super close).

Originally posted by Existere
Edge to Psylocke if she goes for instant telepathic shut down.

It'd be a quickdraw scenario, and I'd bet on Psylocke's ninja reflexes before Blinks (which are still battle-honed and all that, so it'd be super close).

interesting, appreciate the opinion

Originally posted by Sin I AM
educate me then...and tell me how MM can defeat the maj of the meta tier How many dupes would you say there are here?

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
X-Factor #15
Jamie crushes all the HYDRA agents purely by multiplying. I can't even count how many there are. 100s? 1000< ?
http://img215.imageshack.us/img215/6585/xfactor015017ra6.th.jpghttp://img48.imageshack.us/img48/8382/xfactor015018sm1.th.jpghttp://img261.imageshack.us/img261/585/xfactor015019ez4.th.jpg

Shadow Cat and Vision, for their intangibility, would probably be good picks too

Originally posted by Existere
How many dupes would you say there are here?

couple hundred if not thousand i suppose

Originally posted by Sin I AM
couple hundred if not thousand i suppose And that was created in a rather slow process of rhythmically slapping, creating one dupe per slap.

Still only occurred over the course of a few panels. Without CIS, that could have happened in a matter of seconds. Jamie taps his foot, and the first action each duplicate takes is to tap their foot, and so on. This process of turning kinetic energy into duplicates has allowed Jamie to shrug off damage in the past, and turn blows into fuel for ally creation.

Each kinetic impact creates more duplicates, including the force Jamie's hit with. Anybody that can be taken out by simply being overwhelmed can be taken down by a CIS-less Jamie Madrox. This includes much of the meta tier.

Originally posted by Sr J-Bieb
Indisputable proof.

Yes indisputable proof! He's able to engulf an entire subway train but can't handle one human sized being thrashing about.

Originally posted by Existere
And that was created in a rather slow process of rhythmically slapping, creating one dupe per slap.

Still only occurred over the course of a few panels. Without CIS, that could have happened in a matter of seconds. Jamie taps his foot, and the first action each duplicate takes is to tap their foot, and so on. This process of turning kinetic energy into duplicates has allowed Jamie to shrug off damage in the past, and turn blows into fuel for ally creation.

Each kinetic impact creates more duplicates, including the force Jamie's hit with. Anybody that can be taken out by simply being overwhelmed can be taken down by a CIS-less Jamie Madrox. This includes much of the meta tier.


ahh i see, i concur its a good tactic..but against say storm would be useless...agreed?

Originally posted by zopzop
Yes indisputable proof! He's able to engulf an entire subway train but can't handle one human sized being thrashing about. The subway was driving into him and he was just standing there.

Originally posted by Sin I AM
ahh i see, i concur its a good tactic..but against say storm would be useless...agreed? Probably, but it's a little hard to run that scenario in my head. I suppose Storm could flash freeze them all, but if they were operating with 'CIS off', they could behave like a hive mind and just tower thousands of bodies and become this unstoppable force.

It'd be cool to see.

Originally posted by Parmaniac
The subway was driving into him and he was just standing there.

He could easily handle this coming at him full speed :
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/48/NYC_Subway_Track_Geometry_Car_TGC3.jpg

But not something roughly this size thrashing about :
http://gymtops.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/brock-lesnar-death-clutch-tee.jpg

Makes perfect sense!

The difference isn't the size genius, it's the fact that the train was moving in only one direction (INTO his cloak) it wasn't even jumping or anything while the characters were moving in the exact other direction to get OUT of his cloak. Noone here is arguing the field he can cover with his cloak.

Originally posted by Existere
Probably, but it's a little hard to run that scenario in my head. I suppose Storm could flash freeze them all, but if they were operating with 'CIS off', they could behave like a hive mind and just tower thousands of bodies and become this unstoppable force.

It'd be cool to see.


i was thinking more along he lines of suffocating them in a tornado, or pinning them against a wall and driving stop signs thru em...enev a million dupes couldnt survive a tornado

Originally posted by Parmaniac
Noone here is arguing the field he can cover with his cloak.

See that? Think long and hard about this and then see why the Spiderman scans are PIS.

Originally posted by zopzop
See that? Think long and hard about this and then see why the Spiderman scans are PIS. Maybe cause he's too ****ing slow? And a lot of people move out of the cloak cause they can fly (Carrion) or reach for shit to pull themself out (Carnage) he can cover a whole football stadium he won't catch them cause he's too ****ing slow to get them into his cloak if they're so much faster that's all what the scans show me maybe he can expand infinitely who knows, who cares. You can argue about the Shriek thing cause she appears to be simply jumping but then, maybe she used her sonic blast to boost herself up.

As for the train feat:

The train came and he was waiting for it the train was only moving forward, I see no prob that he did/performed that feat but that doesn't mean that he can do this to fast/agile characters (that change their directions constantly to avoid him) as easily as he did there.

Back to topic, LordofMurder ask for people who would do better my first reply was:
Blink

I win

Originally posted by zopzop
But not something roughly this size thrashing about :
http://gymtops.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/brock-lesnar-death-clutch-tee.jpg

Makes perfect sense! That's photoshopped to shit. Doesn't count.