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Is Cloak Magneto's worst nightmare come to life?

Cloak immediately goes intangible, covers the battlefield in absolute darkness, and attempts to BFR him to the Dark Dimension...

What defense does Mags have to this?

If Mags attempts to fly, Cloak simply materializes directly above him and envelopes him that way; again, how does Mags defend himself from this?

Any failed attempts to BFR Mags to the Dark Dimension result in Cloak immediately going back intangible and restarting the whole process...


All in all, this seems like a bad matchup for Mags; anyone here disagree with this? And if so, how could Magneto beat Cloak?

CIS/PIS are off...who wins?

interesting match up. strong willed people have survived cloak's darkness in the past though and been relatively unscathed. cloak's head is always a weakness as well. i can't see the darkness taking mags out for long. he could go with the 'affect cloak's blood' route i suppose or just get him from behind with some random debris.

mags 10/10

yes

you're tipping balls LoM. Magneto will rip him to pieces as his powers have worked on intangible objects and characters before

let me ask this:

LoM, what appearance of Cloak's are you using to say he has anything near the power necessary to take on Magneto?

he's also outreacted kurt while mid-teleport and can open wormholes, albeit his is a rare feat.

Dagger has used her shields to protect herself from Cloak's Dark Dimension, I imagine Mags could easily do the same.

Intangible characters can still have the electromagnetic activity in their brains messed with, and given Mags connection to energy, being invis/intangible wont hide him.

Magneto would dominate Cloak. magneto has to many defensive and offensive weapons.

lol, this is also a CIS off magneto

just to point out, sealing someone in the Dark Dimension is hardly a win :

http://img710.imageshack.us/img710/7403/comic16.th.jpghttp://img64.imageshack.us/img64/5638/comic17.th.jpghttp://img14.imageshack.us/img14/2202/comic18g.th.jpghttp://img40.imageshack.us/img40/7732/comic19n.th.jpg

This seems like a feat magneto could replicate easily

You guys bring up some valid points...

I have never seen Mags affect anything intangible with his powers; if he can indeed affect intangible flesh (which seems like a stretch in my honest opinion; when Cloak is in intangible, he himself is mostly in the DD...how is Mags supposed to be able to affect him; Mags lacks magic), then all bets are off as Mags could rip him apart...


As pertains those scans, I wish they were higher res as I cant make out the text and the images themselves are not as clear as I'd like; is that Doctor Doom in those scans?

He has a mystic background and thus I'd assume that that is how he getting out of the DD; using his magic...

Magneto lacks magic and as we all know, if he leaves you there long enough, you die...so how does Magneto get out in the 1st place?

Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
You guys bring up some valid points...

Originally posted by inimalist
LoM, what appearance of Cloak's are you using to say he has anything near the power necessary to take on Magneto?

Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
I have never seen Mags affect anything intangible with his powers; if he can indeed affect intangible flesh, then all bets are off as Mags could rip him apart...

he doesn't need to affect his flesh, he needs to affect his electromagnetic energy, such as that in his brain. This is already intangible, re: energy, so there is no reason at all to believe Cloak would have any defense against it.

and like 753 mentioned, Magneto's more exotic powers would also be of use here.

Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
As pertains those scans, I wish they were higher res as I cant make out the text and the images themselves are not as clear as I'd like; is that Doctor Doom in those scans?

you... you can click the thumbnail for a larger version... and magnify the image once... oh, nm

http://img710.imageshack.us/img710/7403/comic16.jpg
http://img64.imageshack.us/img64/5638/comic17.jpg
http://img14.imageshack.us/img14/2202/comic18g.jpg
http://img24.imageshack.us/img24/8339/comic19b.jpg

Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
He has a mystic background and thus I'd assume that that is how he getting out of the DD; using his magic...

nothing about his magic getting him out, in fact, the narration mentions his "enchanted armor" in the same breath as saying his blasts are ineffective. It seems it is when Doom collects himself against the mind games of the DD that he is able to escape.

Magneto is known for being resistant if not outright immune to such games

really though, just answer this:

Originally posted by inimalist
LoM, what appearance of Cloak's are you using to say he has anything near the power necessary to take on Magneto?

because I can't find the comics you are reading, obviously

The key to this fight, IMHO, is if Magneto can affect an intangible Cloak with his powers; Cloaks chances ride heavily upon this question...

If Mags cant (due to the nature of Cloaks intangibility), then Cloaks winning chances are very good; if Mags can then Cloak's chances diminish greatly...

Although Cloak could still attempt to get the advantage and BFR Mags with stealth...

Posting on a ps3 at the moment; not all functions work as they would on a PC...

Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
Posting on a ps3 at the moment; not all functions work as they would on a PC...

ah, my bad

can magneto affect shadowcat while she is intangible?

Ah...so Doom got out by attacking the Beast that waits inside the DD...

Originally posted by inimalist
can magneto affect shadowcat while she is intangible?

Honestly not sure; I've never been a big reader of Xmen comics, but since you are asking the question I am betting you have seen him affect her...

Of course I'd argue that Cloaks intangibility is of a different nature (more mystical) so he might not have the same success against him...

Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
Ah...so Doom got out by attacking the Beast that waits inside the DD...

something like that

I'll admit, its not entirely clear, but it is from a Cloak and Dagger comic itself.

Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
Honestly not sure; I've never been a big reader of Xmen comics, but since you are asking the question I am betting you have seen him affect her...

Of course I'd argue that Cloaks intangibility is of a different nature (more mystical) so he might not have the same success against him...

I actually don't know, though iirc I've heard it said before

I still don't see what intangibility would have to do with magnitism... as it isn't tangible in the first place

This is the thing with Cloak, it seems they kept watering down his powers over the years to the point where he's just basically a guy in a cape that can trap people with his cloak.

Originally, his cloak was a doorway into another dimension, the Dark Dimension. This was the same place that NC tps too, Darkstar/Blackout/Vanisher/etc.. get their power from. There was never a mention of a Beast or demon living inside, that came later (and is crappy writing IMHO since other Darkforce wielders make NO mention of such a creature).

Cloak was always intangible unless he strained himself and made himself corporeal. Cloak isn't intangible in the same way Kitty Pride is intangible. She goes intangible (Vision too I think) by spacing her molecules apart so they pass through solid objects. Sufficiently dense objects have been known to stop her from phasing through (I think a Sentinel pulled this trick on her or something in the future). Cloak is intangible because he does something with his physical body that shunts it into the Dark Dimension. It's an apples and oranges comparison.

So Magneto sensing NC tping into and out of the Dark Dimension by feeling the ripples in the magnetic lines as Nightcrawler enters and leaves the Dark Dimension would be meaningless vs Cloak because Cloak's body NEVER leaves the Dark Dimension unless he strains to become physical. He wouldn't leave any ripples in the magnetic lines because his body is intangible. His intangibility is nothing like Kitty Pride's/Shadowcat's since he's not spacing his body's molecules apart to allow him to pass through solid objects, his entire physical form is shunted into another plane of reality.

Now add to the fact that he can create pitch black inky smoke that can't be penetrated by normal means and Magneto would be FUGGED in a fight vs Cloak. His only hope would be to maintain distance and flee.

Now these are his "classic" powers. It seems he was raped by the nerf bat in recent years. Shame too since he was one of the few "cool" and powerful minority characters in comics back in the day at Marvel.

Originally posted by zopzop
This is the thing with Cloak, it seems they kept watering down his powers over the years to the point where he's just basically a guy in a cape that can trap people with his cloak.

Originally, his cloak was a doorway into another dimension, the Dark Dimension. This was the same place that NC tps too, Darkstar/Blackout/Vanisher/etc.. get their power from. There was never a mention of a Beast or demon living inside, that came later (and is crappy writing IMHO since other Darkforce wielders make NO mention of such a creature).

Cloak was always intangible unless he strained himself and made himself corporeal. Cloak isn't intangible in the same way Kitty Pride is intangible. She goes intangible (Vision too I think) by spacing her molecules apart so they pass through solid objects. Sufficiently dense objects have been known to stop her from phasing through (I think a Sentinel pulled this trick on her or something in the future). Cloak is intangible because he does something with his physical body that shunts it into the Dark Dimension. It's an apples and oranges comparison.

So Magneto sensing NC tping into and out of the Dark Dimension by feeling the ripples in the magnetic lines as Nightcrawler enters and leaves the Dark Dimension would be meaningless vs Cloak because Cloak's body NEVER leaves the Dark Dimension unless he strains to become physical. He wouldn't leave any ripples in the magnetic lines because his body is intangible. His intangibility is nothing like Kitty Pride's/Shadowcat's since he's not spacing his body's molecules apart to allow him to pass through solid objects, his entire physical form is shunted into another plane of reality.

Now add to the fact that he can create pitch black inky smoke that can't be penetrated by normal means and Magneto would be FUGGED in a fight vs Cloak. His only hope would be to maintain distance and flee.

Now these are his "classic" powers. It seems he was raped by the nerf bat in recent years. Shame too since he was one of the few "cool" and powerful minority characters in comics back in the day at Marvel.

dude, how about you let me know what issues you are talking about, because I've been flipping through the volumes, and he gains powers over the years, not loses them

so, issues, scans, anything like that, I'll look it up, but largely, I think you are just flat out wrong here

Originally posted by inimalist
dude, how about you let me know what issues you are talking about, because I've been flipping through the volumes, and he gains powers over the years, not loses them

so, issues, scans, anything like that, I'll look it up, but largely, I think you are just flat out wrong here

It's from the 86 Handbook. Everything I mentioned is from his entry there : his darkness mist that defies NORMAL aka non mystical light, the way his body is intangible, the fact that he opens gates into another dimension, etc... His powers have been NERFED not buffed through they years.

ok, so, I see no reason to put any value in your argument :/

Originally posted by inimalist
ok, so, I see no reason to put any value in your argument :/

Genius, my argument is : EVER SINCE THE LATE 80s, HIS POWERS SEEM TO HAVE BEEN NERFED. Reading comprehension is your friend.

yup, you are right

and, as per forum rules, your handbook is way more valid than my scans. I am in awe of your research skills my friend, please post more informed opinions based on sources we all take as hugely valid

/ffs

Originally posted by zopzop
Genius, my argument is : EVER SINCE THE LATE 80s, HIS POWERS SEEM TO HAVE BEEN NERFED. Reading comprehension is your friend.

even though you can't name a single instance when he was at the power level you think he is.... weird how that works...

and here I'm posting scans from their actual series...

man, people are going to be so confused as to who has a better argument here

Originally posted by inimalist
yup, you are right

and, as per forum rules, your handbook is way more valid than my scans. I am in awe of your research skills my friend, please post more informed opinions based on sources we all take as hugely valid

/ffs

Since you seem to be an illiterate, I'll say again : In my post I said his CLASSIC powers, using the Handbook from 1986 (the Handbook even gave examples from his battles on panel and gave an explanation on how his body becomes intangible).

Since that time it seems his powers have changed significantly (most important being a Beast that dwells inside his cloak, this Beast can't be inside the Dark Dimension proper since NO other Darkforce user makes mention of it). That's just one example.

Do you understand now?

so, your point is that you have nothing to substantiate your claims?

Originally posted by inimalist
so, your point is that you have nothing to substantiate your claims?

My point is that since 1986, his powers have taken a hit and have changed drastically (see the Beast within the dimension), all the scans you provided were from the mid 90s. You understand how numbers work right?

intangible?

Cloak and Dagger v1 3 (remember folks, he has been nerfed since this time ):

http://img14.imageshack.us/img14/5634/cloakanddagger03of0421.th.jpg

Originally posted by zopzop
My point is that since 1986, his powers have taken a hit and have changed drastically (see the Beast within the dimension), all the scans you provided were from the mid 90s. You understand how numbers work right?

Originally posted by inimalist
so, your point is that you have nothing to substantiate your claims?

EDIT: and the doom scans are from 87...

god this thread must be a constant embarrassment

Originally posted by inimalist
intangible?

Cloak and Dagger v1 3 (remember folks, he has been nerfed since this time ):

http://img14.imageshack.us/img14/5634/cloakanddagger03of0421.th.jpg

Context please, the 86 Handbook says he can be forced tangible by consuming enough "light". I saw that word thrown around a lot in that one scan.

Originally posted by inimalist
EDIT: and the doom scans are from 87...

god this thread must be a constant embarrassment

Not really, one mistake doesn't make a constant stream of embarrassments. It took place after 86.

lol

you are asking me to substantiate something? irony proper

anyways, you know, cloak has 4 appearances before 1986, only the 4 part cloak and dagger mini? so, in your mind, this 4 issue mini is more important for the character than are the hundreds of subsequent appearances

I am really at a loss for words dude, other than those that insult your intelligence. this has become a waste of my time and is entirely unenjoyable

Originally posted by inimalist
lol

you are asking me to substantiate something? irony proper

anyways, you know, cloak has 4 appearances before 1986, only the 4 part cloak and dagger mini? so, in your mind, this 4 issue mini is more important for the character than are the hundreds of subsequent appearances

I am really at a loss for words dude, other than those that insult your intelligence. this has become a waste of my time and is entirely unenjoyable

It means his powers were CHANGED since that mini and the 86 Handbook entry. Quick question, what issue was that Dr. Doom/Cloak fight in because I think you're lying out your ass.

cloak and dagger, volume 2, issue 10

want me to send it to you, I can, It'll taste like crow though...

Originally posted by zopzop
Context please, the 86 Handbook says he can be forced tangible by consuming enough "light". I saw that word thrown around a lot in that one scan.

http://img560.imageshack.us/img560/6595/cloakanddagger03of0417.th.jpghttp://img34.imageshack.us/img34/8981/cloakanddagger03of0418.th.jpghttp://img851.imageshack.us/img851/9127/cloakanddagger03of0419.th.jpghttp://img543.imageshack.us/img543/9556/cloakanddagger03of0420.th.jpghttp://img7.imageshack.us/img7/5634/cloakanddagger03of0421.th.jpghttp://img231.imageshack.us/img231/6937/cloakanddagger03of0422.th.jpg

oh, and here, from earlier in the same issue, Cloak is intangible enough to get grabbed by homeless folk:

http://img849.imageshack.us/img849/1340/cloakanddagger03of0414.th.jpg

remember, these are from the pre 86 4 issue, the one you say Cloak is uber in...

Originally posted by inimalist
cloak and dagger, volume 2, issue 10

want me to send it to you, I can, It'll taste like crow though...

Ok, I see. They fought Doom in 87 as well as 90. But my point still stands, it took place after the Handbook entry and it seems his powers were going downhill since.

oh really?

can you name a single instance from pre-86 that is inconsistent with post-86?

even just issue numbers, I mean, heaven forbid you post a scan of what you are suggesting

Originally posted by inimalist
http://img560.imageshack.us/img560/6595/cloakanddagger03of0417.th.jpghttp://img34.imageshack.us/img34/8981/cloakanddagger03of0418.th.jpghttp://img851.imageshack.us/img851/9127/cloakanddagger03of0419.th.jpghttp://img543.imageshack.us/img543/9556/cloakanddagger03of0420.th.jpghttp://img7.imageshack.us/img7/5634/cloakanddagger03of0421.th.jpghttp://img231.imageshack.us/img231/6937/cloakanddagger03of0422.th.jpg

oh, and here, from earlier in the same issue, Cloak is intangible enough to get grabbed by homeless folk:

http://img849.imageshack.us/img849/1340/cloakanddagger03of0414.th.jpg

remember, these are from the pre 86 4 issue, the one you say Cloak is uber in...

Dude he was going tangible/intangible, you can see him punching/throwing the goons around.

Originally posted by zopzop
Dude he was going tangible/intangible, you can see him punching/throwing the goons around.

and getting grabbed/hit in the face, sure

but, I can see that given that I provided the scans...

Originally posted by inimalist
oh really?

can you name a single instance from pre-86 that is inconsistent with post-86?

even just issue numbers, I mean, heaven forbid you post a scan of what you are suggesting

The Handbook stated : a) he's intangible unless he wills himself tangible (or he absorbs enough "light" and is forced tangible), his intangibility is because his body is shunted into another dimension (not because he's spacing his molecules apart) b) he opens gateways into the Dark Dimension and that's where he traps his victims or uses as a touchstone to teleport, c) his "darkness" is just mass from the Dark Dimension and it defies "normal" illumination.

Everything AFTER this was a change to his powers.

i dont give two shits about the handbook though, and it isn't valid evidence on these forums without on panel substantiation

this is essentially trolling, I will stop feeding you

Originally posted by inimalist
i dont give two shits about the handbook though, and it isn't valid evidence on these forums without on panel substantiation

this is essentially trolling, I will stop feeding you

Where was it shown prior to 86 that he had a demon/beast living inside his cloak/dimension?

Where was it shown prior to 86 that he spaces his molecules apart to go intangible like Shadowcat does?

Where was it shown prior to 86 that he doesn't open gates into the Dark Dimension, that he's merely some guy in a cape that swallows people/objects?

Show this and you'll have a point, since you'd be refuting the Handbook. Things that happened AFTER the Handbook was published mean nothing since I was using his 86 and prior powerset as my starting point.