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http://www.ign.com/top/comic-book-heroes

Thoughts:

I started at #1 and went backwards. 100 is too many.

Dick Grayson at 11 is awesome, and unexpected.

Jean Grey at 13 is ridiculous.

Dream at 15 is nonsensical, given the title "Top Heroes."

The entire Gordon Clan and Catwoman in the top 20 is, well, showing some Batman bias. Not that they don't belong on a top 100 list, but top 20?!

Raphael beat the other Ninja Turtles. Hilarious.

...seems like a LOT of the list is just straight popularity, not actually a dissection of "hero."

Greg Miller, hero to the masses, inspiration to all men and sex symbol to all women, likes Aquaman more than Namor? Say it aint so Greg! Say it aint so!

He is an unapologetic DC fanboy though so it figures. Spidy should have been 1.

I mean he got #1 and #2 right at least.
DC bias aside at least he tried to highlight the indy characters even though they aren't really heroes.

The fact cap isnt in the top 3 disgusts me.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin

He is an unapologetic DC fanboy though so it figures. Spidy should have been 1.
Why?

no colossus on the list was a huge FAIL

Originally posted by Gecko4lif
The fact cap isnt in the top 3 disgusts me.

On a purely objective level, Spidey's more popular, just as influential historically both culturally and on the Marvel Universe. Has just as many "hero moments" etc. etc. Wearing an American Flag on your damn costume doesn't buy you anything. I love Cap, but he's where he belongs.

Batman and Superman also are deservedly 1-2. I'd place Cap no higher than 4th, and perhaps lower because he's only relevant to a subset of a single country. Superman and Batman are far more universal, despite Kal borrowing somewhat from "American" ideals as well.

Originally posted by colossulrage
no colossus on the list was a huge FAIL

lul. You can take your pick of X-Men who may have deserved it. But he's just another hero on a large ass team. Swap him in for, say, Kitty and no one would object. But in terms of eponymous hero-"ness" he's no more or less deserving, and less so than Cyke, Logan, or Beast, all of whom have their hands in more honey pots around the universe.

I said to myself from the very start of the list...I bet superman will be number 1...

Good to see some of my favs on the list

The Tick, Ghost Rider, Punisher

John Constantine should have been higher....

I mean he's a bastard, but he's awesome.
And if Dream 'Sentence you to hell for 10,000 years because we broke up' of the Endless is 15 then clearly being a bastard doesn't matter.

Originally posted by Digi
On a purely objective level, Spidey's more popular, just as influential historically both culturally and on the Marvel Universe. Has just as many "hero moments" etc. etc. Wearing an American Flag on your damn costume doesn't buy you anything. I love Cap, but he's where he belongs.



If you want to argue that Spiderman is more popular thats fine, but I'm struggling how you're going to argue that Spiderman is just as much as a hero as Cap is. Theres a reason why Spiderman and the superhero community in general look up to him and it's not because he has a flag on his back.

I was following this off and on, on IGN i didnt agree with the list or felt what the criteria was based on was solid.

I personally didnt get why Superman and Batman were Number one and two respectively.

If they were given those numbers based on them being "1st" superheroes which (IMO they weren't) That's not a good factor to judge a pole. If its how popular they are then that I can understand but should Spiderman come come 1st then?

Or was this about impact on the industry and how they shaped it, in that case should'nt the fantastic four achieve a much higher rating.

To me this list was inconsistent arguing one factor for one hero (say in comic universe base) then arguing another factor for one hero (the effects they've had on the real world). I'll compare the degree of contrast like having a list of celebrities and including critically acclaimed actors, musicians and then socialites.

Originally posted by Deadline
If you want to argue that Spiderman is more popular thats fine, but I'm struggling how you're going to argue that Spiderman is just as much as a hero as Cap is. Theres a reason why Spiderman and the superhero community in general look up to him and it's not because he has a flag on his back.
Yeah, seniority.

If Spidey had been a hero as long as Cap he'd be looked up to as well. It doesn't mean he's any less of a hero than Cap, just less well established/renowned.

There's also the JJJ smear campaign...

Originally posted by HigH ScholaR
I personally didnt get why Superman and Batman were Number one and two respectively.

If they were given those numbers based on them being "1st" superheroes which (IMO they weren't) That's not a good factor to judge a pole. If its how popular they are then that I can understand but should Spiderman come come 1st then?

I am pretty sure they are both more popular than Spiderman.

I remember some tv show a while ago found that the "S" symbol was either the second or third most recognizable symbol on Earth. I don't remember what the show was though.

Originally posted by StyleTime
I am pretty sure they are both more popular than Spiderman.

I remember some tv show a while ago found that the "S" symbol was either the second or third most recognizable symbol on Earth. I don't remember what the show was though.

By popularity I meant measurable factors (box office, tv deals/programmes/cartoons, toys and comic sales)

If you meant by most "recognisable" then I would like to see what research or method they conducted to come to validate that conclusion?

Originally posted by HigH ScholaR
I was following this off and on, on IGN i didnt agree with the list or felt what the criteria was based on was solid.

I personally didnt get why Superman and Batman were Number one and two respectively.

If they were given those numbers based on them being "1st" superheroes which (IMO they weren't) That's not a good factor to judge a pole. If its how popular they are then that I can understand but should Spiderman come come 1st then?

Or was this about impact on the industry and how they shaped it, in that case should'nt the fantastic four achieve a much higher rating.

To me this list was inconsistent arguing one factor for one hero (say in comic universe base) then arguing another factor for one hero (the effects they've had on the real world). I'll compare the degree of contrast like having a list of celebrities and including critically acclaimed actors, musicians and then socialites.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
Yeah, seniority.

If Spidey had been a hero as long as Cap he'd be looked up to as well. It doesn't mean he's any less of a hero than Cap, just less well established/renowned.

There's also the JJJ smear campaign...

Absolutely. Thats why alien empires decided to follow Cap eventhough they never heard of him and didn't know the F who he was.

Hmm Thor and Hercules are more respected than Cap right? Thats why Cap can lift Thors hammer....seniority. Hahaha.

I think alot of heros know that JJJ is a douchbag and lots of other heroes have met Spiderman and can judge him on his merits.

Comments on each placement:

100. Okay, I guess
99. Meh
98. Badass
97. Pretty good
96. Meh
95. Meh
94. Sexy
93. Sort of sexy
92. Meh
91. Lame
90. Awesome
89. Meh
88. Hot
87. Pretty good
86. Never heard of her
85. Cool guy
84. He's okay
83. He's okay
82. Don't know this version of the character
81. Awesome and sexy but why did they have to use a pic from ASBAR? That comic sucked ass.
80. He's cool
79. Cool and underrated
78. He's okay
77. He's cool
76. Don't really know much about him
75. Never read it
74. She's okay
73. He's awesome, even though the movie totally shortchanged him
72. He's awesome
71. He's cool and should be respected
70. One of the greatest characters ever
69. Never read it
68. He's awesome
67. Not a major fan of him but you've got to respect the guy
66. She's so hot
65. He's cool
64. He's cool too
63. Meh
62. Never heard of him
61. He's okay
60. Never read it
59. He's awesome and funny
58. He's cool
57. He's funny
56. He's awesome and badass
55. He's pretty good
54. He's awesome
53. He's okay
52. He's cool and unfairly hated
51. He's cool
50. He's classic, iconic, and deserves to be higher rated.
49. One of the greatest heroes of all time
48. Never read it
47. Meh. Cartoon version was hot though.
46. He's cool
45. Never read it
44. He's okay
43. He's pure awesome
42. She's hot
41. One of the greatest heroes ever and one of my favorites
40. He's awesome
39. He's cool
38. One of the greatest heroes ever and one of my favorites
37. Never read it
36. He's cool but IMO too high on the list
35. Never read his comics
34. He's awesome and badass
33. He's also awesome and badass
32. He's pretty good
31. He's hilarious and cool
30. He's okay but too high on the list IMO
29. He's one of the most badass, awesome characters ever
28. He's an awesome, deep, fascinating and cool character
27. He's cool but IMO a bit too high on the list
26. Never heard of him
25. He's okay, but I've never really read his comics
24. Never read it
23. He's cool
22. He's awesome and badass
21. Never read his comics
20. She's okay, but hardly qualifies as a hero IMO, even if she is currently, she is far more iconic as a villain
19. He's cool but he's more of a supporting character than a full-blown hero
18. He's awesome
17. She's cool
16. He's awesome
15. Not exactly a hero, but he's cool
14. Awesome, badass, iconic, he's just all - around great
13. She's hot and a good character and all, but way too high up on the list IMO
12. Great and classic character but I don't think he should be above the likes of Thor and such
11. Classic but a bit too high up on the list IMO
10. Great character but a bit too high up on the list if you ask me
9. Awesome, classic character
8. Okay, Wally is my favorite Flash and one of my favorite superheroes but he is just way too high on the list here
7. Okay, he is awesome and classic
6. One of the greatest heroes of all time, even if he's not one of my personal favorites I still have to give him props
5. She's awesome
4. Lame
3. One of the most popular and well-known heroes so he deserves this spot
2. He is one of the best and most classic superheroes of all time so of course he deserves a high spot.
1. He deserves it

Characters I'm annoyed were not included:

1. Animal Man
2. Lucifer Morningstar (hell, if Dream gets in....)
3. Etrigan
4. Squirrel Girl (of course)
5. Beta Ray Bill
6. Gladiator
7. Captain Mar-Vell
8. Black Adam (if Catwoman gets in...)
9. Magneto (see above)
10. Quasar
11. Kyle Rayner (why rank Wally so high due to his fan popularity but ignore all of the fans Kyle has?)
12. Guy Gardner
13. Crimson Avenger
14. The Phantom
15. Dr. Fate
16. Zatanna
17. Solar
18. Mr. Majestic
19. Anyone from the Authority
20. Jocasta

Originally posted by Endless Mike
11. Kyle Rayner (why rank Wally so high due to his fan popularity but ignore all of the fans Kyle has?)


Not agreeing with the number or character, but with your reason why. This is why I said the basis for this supposed list was unfair, inconsistent and weak in its reasoning

Originally posted by Deadline
If you want to argue that Spiderman is more popular thats fine, but I'm struggling how you're going to argue that Spiderman is just as much as a hero as Cap is. Theres a reason why Spiderman and the superhero community in general look up to him and it's not because he has a flag on his back.

It's because Cap's a natural leader, and Peter's personality type is one that is in awe of such things. I'm sure Spider-Man himself would rank Cap higher, but we have the advantage of being removed from such context. Because, again, is there anything Cap's done on a purely heroic level that Pete hasn't matched at some point?

And as before: Spider-Man means more to more people, simply put. Just like Superman means more to more people.

Originally posted by HigH ScholaR
Not agreeing with the number or character, but with your reason why. This is why I said the basis for this supposed list was unfair, inconsistent and weak in its reasoning

Those numbers on the second list aren't the numbers I'd wanted them ranked, I just was listing characters I thought should have been included

Reed should be higher, he's the solution to every problem.

Lots of Indy love.

Originally posted by HigH ScholaR
By popularity I meant measurable factors (box office, tv deals/programmes/cartoons, toys and comic sales)

If you meant by most "recognisable" then I would like to see what research or method they conducted to come to validate that conclusion?

Batman trumped Spiderman in box office sales...

Originally posted by ares834
Batman trumped Spiderman in box office sales...

It's always important to adjust for inflation with those things though, so the gap is likely closer. Gone With the Wind still has the 2nd most theater viewers in movie history, for example, despite not making as much money because of the era. Iirc, only Titanic has surpassed it.

Originally posted by Digi
It's always important to adjust for inflation with those things though, so the gap is likely closer. Gone With the Wind still has the 2nd most theater viewers in movie history, for example, despite not making as much money because of the era. Iirc, only Titanic has surpassed it.



And also if we look at it in a franchise sense sense the turn of the century. But also I could of sworn I mentioned other mediums besides box office figures

Anyway this is my main point:
Originally posted by HigH ScholaR
I was following this off and on, on IGN i didnt agree with the list or felt what the criteria was based on was solid.

I personally didnt get why Superman and Batman were Number one and two respectively.

If they were given those numbers based on them being "1st" superheroes which (IMO they weren't) That's not a good factor to judge a pole. If its how popular they are then that I can understand but should Spiderman come come 1st then?

Or was this about impact on the industry and how they shaped it, in that case should'nt the fantastic four achieve a much higher rating.

To me this list was inconsistent arguing one factor for one hero (say in comic universe base) then arguing another factor for one hero (the effects they've had on the real world). I'll compare the degree of contrast like having a list of celebrities and including critically acclaimed actors, musicians and then socialites.

Originally posted by Digi
It's always important to adjust for inflation with those things though, so the gap is likely closer. Gone With the Wind still has the 2nd most theater viewers in movie history, for example, despite not making as much money because of the era. Iirc, only Titanic has surpassed it.

Originally posted by Digi
It's always important to adjust for inflation with those things though, so the gap is likely closer. Gone With the Wind still has the 2nd most theater viewers in movie history, for example, despite not making as much money because of the era. Iirc, only Titanic has surpassed it.

I thought Gone With The Wind was #1 if you adjust for inflation? Titanic isn't even #2.

Ka-Zar and Black Lightning made it to top100? Lulz.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Black Lightning made it to top100? Lulz.

Racist.

This list was....weird.

Originally posted by batdude123
Don't you dare get out of the narrow point of view that's presented, batdude! Inflation is the ONLY factor that should be taken into account when comparing movies!

Originally posted by steverules_2
I said to myself from the very start of the list...I bet superman will be number 1... Obviously.

Originally posted by Black bolt z
Obviously.

But why was he?
Then look at say why another character came in the position he came in lets say Mr. Fantastic or Black Panther (just randomly chose them haven't re checked myself so I hope it proves my statement)
Totally different measuring sticks/criteria in reasoning how they got there

Any way this is an interesting topic IMO I'm surprised and disappointed it hasn't reached at least 4 pages by now

Superman is definitely the most recognizable hero out there. From memorabilia, toys, cartoons, shows, movies, comics, etc... It's a no brainer he's number 1. Same with Batman. Well deserved spots.

Originally posted by HigH ScholaR
But why was he?
Then look at say why another character came in the position he came in lets say Mr. Fantastic or Black Panther (just randomly chose them haven't re checked myself so I hope it proves my statement)
Totally different measuring sticks/criteria in reasoning how they got there

Any way this is an interesting topic IMO I'm surprised and disappointed it hasn't reached at least 4 pages by now

Tbf whether you look at it in universe or in terms of real life recognition, Superman is still going to be at the top (although in universe the JSA elders I guess are incredibly respected as heroes)

Originally posted by StyleTime
I am pretty sure they are both more popular than Spiderman.

I remember some tv show a while ago found that the "S" symbol was either the second or third most recognizable symbol on Earth. I don't remember what the show was though.
To my knowledge spiderman is the most popular hero on the planet. He out sell everyone else.

Originally posted by Prep-Man
Superman is definitely the most recognizable hero out there. From memorabilia, toys, cartoons, shows, movies, comics, etc... It's a no brainer he's number 1. Same with Batman. Well deserved spots.

So then then why were those reasons for being Number 1 while the reasons for most of the other characters being where they were was of "in universe" reasons.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
This list was....weird.

Originally posted by AlmightyKfish
Tbf whether you look at it in universe or in terms of real life recognition, Superman is still going to be at the top (although in universe the JSA elders I guess are incredibly respected as heroes)

Pretty much.

I think they got the top 5 right.

Although I think Wolverine and Cap could have been switched.

Superman is definitely number 1 though.

Originally posted by Newjak
I think they got the top 5 right.

Although I think Wolverine and Cap could have been switched.

Superman is definitely number 1 though.

Wolverine should have been number 0.

Because he's a zero

Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan
To my knowledge spiderman is the most popular hero on the planet. He out sell everyone else. No.

Every child knows the name superman by the age of 3. Spiderman by 4, and batman by 5.

Originally posted by Digi
I could be wrong. It's been a while since I've seen the numbers. The specifics aren't important, the point is that you have to check for era. The "Batman made more money" comment wasn't enough to make that point. Even 5 years or so can mean a significant difference.



Nor was that the point I made. Let's not attack straw men, or be trollish simply for the sake of it.

Well, here is the list just for fun.
http://boxofficemojo.com/alltime/adjusted.htm

Titanic is at #6.

"We're sorry but BoxOfficeMojo is unavailable at this time. We are undergoing a database upgrade with an estimated downtime of about four hours. Our thanks for your patronage and your patience. The BoxOfficeMojo Team"


I'm dissapointed Prep-Man, very dissapointed ahah

Originally posted by Black bolt z
No.

Every child knows the name superman by the age of 3. Spiderman by 4, and batman by 5. lolwut

Originally posted by Existere
lolwut

Never question Mr. 152.

Originally posted by Digi
It's because Cap's a natural leader,

He's a natural leader because hes a great hero, people follow him because he has great self belief which is shown in his actions and that self belief is generated when he speaks. If he didn't believe in himself people wouldn't follow him.

Best example is when he fought Korvac, aliens and people followed him even after he was killed. One guy who was a servant of Korvac betrayed Korvac because he saw how Cap never gave up despite being rebooted back in time for hundreds of repititions. Obvoulsy having a great tactical mind helps but his heroic qualities are a big part of him being a great leader.

Originally posted by Digi

and Peter's personality type is one that is in awe of such things.

It's everybody's personality to be in awe of great people. I would be in awe of somebody who was 10 times weaker then me didn't really have any powers could kick me arse in a fight and saved my arse from The Hulk.

You're also exaggerating. Spiderman maybe in awe of Cap but that hasn't stopped him from trying to layout Cap twice before the Civil War. I also don't think he's in awe of Nick Fury, Cyclops or Tony Starks.

Originally posted by Digi

I'm sure Spider-Man himself would rank Cap higher, but we have the advantage of being removed from such context.

Not just him. Quasar, look what he says about him.

http://imageshack.us/f/169/comicsquasar037quasar37tq5.jpg/

Thanos

http://img240.imageshack.us/img240/4544/ffv1366fantasticfourv13mf7.jpg

and probably the whole superhero community.

Originally posted by Digi

Because, again, is there anything Cap's done on a purely heroic level that Pete hasn't matched at some point?

Well first of all being a great leader that inspires people to do good isn't an example that should be made exempt, unless you want to argue beating people up is the only criteria.

Well I could mention him lifting Thor's hammer and also beating Korvac. He basically beat Korvac because he had greater willpower. Cap tried to beat Korvac but Korvac kept sending him back in time, in the end Korvac gave up and tried something else.

I could also argue almost everything he does proves hes a better hero than Spiderman. Cap doesn't really have any powers but still manages to do the things he does through training and willpower. One of the main reasons why inspires so many people, he represents the human spirit and makes you want to be a better person.

Originally posted by Digi

And as before: Spider-Man means more to more people, simply put. Just like Superman means more to more people.

Yea said I wasn't arguing about that in my post.

capt has powers. He the next step in human evolution. There a reason it called the SUPER soldier serum.

Originally posted by Black bolt z
No.

Every child knows the name superman by the age of 3. Spiderman by 4, and batman by 5.

I bought my four year old cousin a Spider-man action figure for his birthday. He thought it was Batman and was upset that it wasn't Iron Man.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
Why?

Because Spider-man is a better character than either Batman or Superman?

Seriously? Batman trumps all.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Because Spider-man is a better character than either Batman or Superman? Even if your opinion was correct there were other factors contributing to that list.

Can you really be mad about Superman being first? Come On Now

Originally posted by Newjak
I think they got the top 5 right.

Although I think Wolverine and Cap could have been switched.

Superman is definitely number 1 though.

Definetly close. Personnaly I would keep Wolverine where he is and switch out WW for Cap.

Originally posted by Prep-Man
Seriously? Batman trumps all.

He trumps Spiderman for sure.

Originally posted by Digi
I could be wrong. It's been a while since I've seen the numbers. The specifics aren't important, the point is that you have to check for era. The "Batman made more money" comment wasn't enough to make that point. Even 5 years or so can mean a significant difference.

Actually I did. The Dark Knight still outdid Spiderman by a significant amount.

Originally posted by kgkg
Even if your opinion was correct there were other factors contributing to that list.

Can you really be mad about Superman being first? Come On Now

What were the "other" factors contributing to the list? Popularity? Pop culture icon status? "Coolness"? All irrelevant. Spider-man is a superior character, you could take the personalty and character traits of Spider-man and transpose them onto a character outside of the superhero genre and still make compelling stories, with Batman and Superman you just have two Gary Stu's who are awesome and successful at everything they try.

Like what kind of stories? Ultimate Spidey?

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
What were the "other" factors contributing to the list? Popularity? Pop culture icon status? "Coolness"? All irrelevant. It's relevant because those were the criteria for ranking those heroes.

Originally posted by batdude123
Never question Mr. 152.

Dude, I have a high intelligence, not a high common sense.

I'm the smart Steve-O.

Sure Mr. Dungbell!

Originally posted by ares834
Sure Mr. Dungbell! Exactly.

Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan
capt has powers. He the next step in human evolution. There a reason it called the SUPER soldier serum.

Semantics thats why I said he doesn't have any 'real' superpowers. Thats why you can argue that low superhuman and peak human are the same.

Yea he's superhuman but no intelligent Cap fan is going to argue he's 100% bonifide official superhuman like people like Spiderman.

Whats the frig with Ghost Rider being near the end on the list

character gets no respect.

Originally posted by Deadline
Yea said I wasn't arguing about that in my post.

So that's kinda my point, right? I said Cap's a better leader, but then said why Spidey should still be higher on such a list. Are we actually in disagreement here?

Originally posted by ares834
Actually I did. The Dark Knight still outdid Spiderman by a significant amount.

Ok, to play devil's advocate here: yes, DK did earn more adjusted gross. Your post didn't include that bit though, so my initial rebuttal was valid.

But looking at the numbers, DK outearned SM by 37 million. A small percentage with the figures quoted in the link (well over 500 million). Then add in the entire franchise, and Spider-Man 2 is just a bit down the list, and SM-3 is also on the list. Bats claims but one spot.

So are we weighting the (close) win for DK, or including the success of the entire SM franchise? I think any objective analysis would have to award SM the clear overall win.

...so the point remains: box office revenue = poor way to list heroes. That was my original point, and I stand by it.

If you include the entire SM movie box office vs Batman's, wouldn't Batman win, since he has more films? Doesn't matter, Batman has had better movies by far. And better cartoons than Spidey.

What? TDK is the only good Batman movie that exists, whereas Spidermen 1 and 2 were both great. Even then, Spiderman 2 was better than TDK.

Originally posted by RE: Blaxican
What? TDK is the only good Batman movie that exists, whereas Spidermen 1 and 2 were both great. Even then, Spiderman 2 was better than TDK. No.

So would you guys say the list was ill advised, inconsistent, a bit off, unfair, not properly structured etc?

Pretty much every top so and so lists are inconsistent. It's all on a matter of opinion. I thought the list was ok, definitely agree on the top 20, though.

lol Spidey 2 being better than Dark Knight.

To hell with Dark Knight anyway. I liked Batman Begins a lot more.

Originally posted by Digi
But looking at the numbers, DK outearned SM by 37 million. A small percentage with the figures quoted in the link (well over 500 million). Then add in the entire franchise, and Spider-Man 2 is just a bit down the list, and SM-3 is also on the list. Bats claims but one spot.
That still is bit more than 5%, which is fairly significant.


Would it though? Batman has plenty of other movie besides Begins and TDK. SPiderman, to my knowledge, has only the three.



Oh I agree.

Originally posted by Zack Fair
To hell with Dark Knight anyway. I liked Batman Begins a lot more.

Really ridiculous list.

For instance...

Rick Grimes? What has Rick Grimes done in the 7 years he's existed that allows him to be so high up the list, while the best zombie killer of all time - Ash Williams - misses out completely?

Originally posted by ares834
That still is bit more than 5%, which is fairly significant.


Would it though? Batman has plenty of other movie besides Begins and TDK. SPiderman, to my knowledge, has only the three.



Oh I agree.





I know it's not a movie, but don't forget Spidey's 70's show.

http://i937.photobucket.com/albums/ad214/prepman005/VC79DRymSnGGaaN.jpg

Adam Wests Batman was better than that. Even though I enjoyed both.

Originally posted by Prep-Man
If you include the entire SM movie box office vs Batman's, wouldn't Batman win, since he has more films?.

Ok, sure. But then why stop there? Let's do ALL marketing venues. TV, merchandise, ads, etc. See my point? You can't judge a "hero" based on revenue. At least not entirely, or mostly.

Originally posted by Prep-Man
Doesn't matter, Batman has had better movies by far. And better cartoons than Spidey.

Both subjective opinions (albeit defensible ones). We're not talking about qualities of the heroic persona here, nor cultural impact.

Terrible list.

Begins was weak sawce. wtf charles.

Originally posted by Digi Ok, sure. But then why stop there? Let's do ALL marketing venues. TV, merchandise, ads, etc. See my point? You can't judge a "hero" based on revenue. At least not entirely, or mostly. Both subjective opinions (albeit defensible ones). We're not talking about qualities of the heroic persona here, nor cultural impact.

i never said we had to. either way, if you count all those elements, bats would still be on top.

Originally posted by Prep-Man
i never said we had to. either way, if you count all those elements, bats would still be on top.

Debatable, I suppose, but likely. I never contested him at #2.

For the sake of being a dick and derailing this thread, I will. 313

Batman isn't even a hero because he sends villains to Arkham knowing they're going to break out and kill people again. Punisher's a better hero.

Discuss!

if i was a hero, id def favor punisher ways.

If I was a victim I'd prefer Frank's heroism.

Originally posted by RE: Blaxican
For the sake of being a dick and derailing this thread, I will. 313

Batman isn't even a hero because he sends villains to Arkham knowing they're going to break out and kill people again. Punisher's a better hero.

Discuss!

The real villain is the government.

Anyone who really puts thought into it, and isn't being obstinate for the sake of a principle, admits to killing being the moral thing to do in some situation. I'm sure most of us would draw the line somewhere between those two heroes.

Originally posted by Digi
So that's kinda my point, right? I said Cap's a better leader, but then said why Spidey should still be higher on such a list. Are we actually in disagreement here?

You're also arguing that Spiderman is just as much a hero as Cap.

Originally posted by Digi
Anyone who really puts thought into it, and isn't being obstinate for the sake of a principle, admits to killing being the moral thing to do in some situation. I'm sure most of us would draw the line somewhere between those two heroes.


Yup. Punisher and Batman are both extremists.