Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.

Greatest evah and bonafide mastur of the lightsabur versus someone who took over a Republic using shifty tactics.

Discuss!

Khem Val solo's both.

Darth Sa'vage, obviously....

Dashade are interesting.

Battle of what now? Is Bioware still making stuff up without reading previous material?

Remember that Kreia said Tulak Hord mastery of a light saber would make KotOR Jedi/Sith look like children. Thus movie Jedi/Sith would be like fetuses.

Which means the Jedi are pro-Choice.

Those monsters!

Originally posted by ares834
Remember that Kreia said Tulak Hord mastery of a light saber would make KotOR Jedi/Sith look like children. Thus movie Jedi/Sith would be like fetuses.

So is Palpatine a second or third trimester Sith?

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
Which means the Jedi are pro-Choice.

Nah, but the Sith are. Afterall it is Tulak Hord who is preforming the abortions. Damn Sith and their liberal views! No wonder the galaxy went to hell under Palpatine!

Originally posted by ares834
Nah, but the Sith are. Afterall it is Tulak Hord who is preforming the abortions. Damn Sith and their liberal views! No wonder the galaxy went to hell under Palpatine! You... could kind of look at it like that. 25,000 year old dogmatic religious order face off against radical revolutionaries who want to bring about a Golden Age of peace and equality through forceful domination of a single upper class.

Originally posted by Exal Kressh
So is Palpatine a second or third trimester Sith?

Palpatine is a broken condom. A true event horizon in sithdom.

I find the older = better with force user thing to be silly. I mean, later Sith study and train with the techniques of the old ones, so things should stay at least more-or-less level. With some techniques lost, but other new ones made in their place.

You'd expect stuff like lightsaber combat to be more sophisticated over time, and overall later-era lightsaber masters do impress me more.

Originally posted by Q99
I find the older = better with force user thing to be silly. I mean, later Sith study and train with the techniques of the old ones, so things should stay at least more-or-less level. With some techniques lost, but other new ones made in their place.

You'd expect stuff like lightsaber combat to be more sophisticated over time, and overall later-era lightsaber masters do impress me more.
Not necessarily. Combat techniques are a bit like the Oral Tradition of many pre-literate tribes, in that transfer of information across generations is imperfect.

Yeah but remember that practically all Bane did since he founded the ROT was track down lost Holocrons and ancient knowledge that had been lost. Information gets lost alot.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Yeah but remember that practically all Bane did since he founded the ROT was track down lost Holocrons and ancient knowledge that had been lost. Information gets lost alot.

And information gets added.

Lost knowledge can account for stuff like lack of knowledge on creating some of the ancient artifacts and such, but sword techniques? That's an area where there's not much reason to assume any backslide.

Why?

With at least seven different disciplines, why would you expect a total master of each separate form to arise in each generation, let alone someone capable of improving the form, let alone a total master capable of teaching students competently.

There are plenty of places for "backslide."

Also remember that as of the Clone Wars the majority of the jedi focused on Niman. Dooku's Makashi was an extreme rarity. In fact, I believe he was the sole surviving master of the form.

Where does it say the "majority" of the Jedi used Niman?

yeah, curious about that. It said that about the Jedi in ROT, are you sure you aren't get them mixed up?

RB, elsewhere
I'm not terribly familiar with Arca Jeth's character, so I looked him up in ze Jedi Academy Taining Manual:

"Master Jeth is humble in victory and introspective in defeat. He is a master strategist who is well versed in lightsaber combat, but he rarely fights in duels." -- JATM, pg. 96.

"His mastery of the ability grows with each use, but he is not foolish enough to think himself invincible. Just as lightsaber combat has evolved over the centuries, Arca Jeth knows there will be others who will build upon his knowledge, someday bringing entire fleets together as one."

Interesting.

While information is lost, the idea that new techniques aren't created or old techniques aren't refined is unsupported by canon. While the Jedi Knights of the prequel trilogy weren't as experienced as previous generations of Jedi, George Lucas still refers to them as the golden age of Jedi. And why not? They had a millennium of uninterrupted study and dedication to the Jedi arts.

Could this not be referring to the way in which Lightsabers no longer had to be attached to backpacks via cables?



Its the PT jedi. I don't really know why the ROT would use Niman considering they're fighting a war and Niman's a pretty lame style.

"Form VI, also called Niman, is the current standard in lightsaber training." - Cin Drallig, The Essential Guide to the Force.

Also remember that the PT jedi hadn't fought a lightsaber wielding foe in a millennia prior to the war.

Originally posted by RagingBoner
While information is lost, the idea that new techniques aren't created or old techniques aren't refined is unsupported by canon. While the Jedi Knights of the prequel trilogy weren't as experienced as previous generations of Jedi, George Lucas still refers to them as the golden age of Jedi. And why not? They had a millennium of uninterrupted study and dedication to the Jedi arts.

Exactly. And they were founded by the survivors of the war with the Brotherhood of Darkness, so they started with lightsaber masters a thousand years before and have a very strong tradition of duelists ever since, whatever the style has been prominent, and finally peaking with people like Dooku, Mace Windu, and Anakin.


I would think the old Sith of, say, the Hundred Years Darkness, who had tons of cool sithy sorcery abilities, would be outclassed when it came to blade to blade combat against CW era types.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Also remember that the PT jedi hadn't fought a lightsaber wielding foe in a millennia prior to the war.

Nah. There were several dark jedi that cropped up during the period of peace.

Jenna Zan Abor!

N.
Could this not be referring to the way in which Lightsabers no longer had to be attached to backpacks via cables?

Only if you casually disregard the context.

So "peak of power and influence" about the Jedi totally means saber ability and Force powers, right? Because Jedi are all about the ass kicking?

The Jedi Order, acting as the right-handed to the Republic, did have more power and influence than before. Hell, they had more planets than before, no schisms, no Sith, hardly any Dark Siders to worry about. Their leader had been unchanged for nearly a thousand years and his dogma structured the Order from top to bottom. Yoda notes that his own dogmatic approach to the Order made it ill-prepared for the Clone Wars and the return of the Sith. Considering the majority of the Jedi excelled in the Diplomat's Form, it's a given that the Golden Age of the Jedi does not necessarily equate to fighting ability because their goals are peaceful and diplomatic in nature.

Whereas the Golden Age of the Sith indicates both stability in the Sith Empire and the apex of their arts - sith sorcery, alchemy, etc. All of the major Sith artifacts - amulets, swords, double bladed lightsabers, power packs for lightsabers (The Sith actually pioneered the modern lightsaber, not the other way around), ships which can rip the cores from stars and project them at enemy ships as what Aleema did with Sadow's ship, etc. All these amazing discoveries took place before and perhaps some time during Ragnos' iron rule. After his death, the majority of the Empire was divided and destroyed by the Jedi and infighting, while a remnant took off into the deep reaches of space.

The Golden Ages are not comparable in the sense of martial accomplishment because the Jedi are about balance and order and peace, while the Sith are about war, strength, and destruction. Different philosophies, different outcomes.

SM
So "peak of power and influence" about the Jedi totally means saber ability and Force powers, right? Because Jedi are all about the ass kicking?

Given the ass kicking that ensued in the Clone Wars and every other battle involving Jedi, I'd say to an extent, yes.



The Clone Wars Campaign Guide elaborates that, in the context of peace-keeping, the Jedi had actually declined given the galaxywide reaction to rampant taxation and political corruption (pg. 121).



You might want to reread Yoda's "notes" again.



The reason Yoda concludes that he was unable to stop Palpatine is precisely because they were too emphasized with fighting.

Slash_KMC
Khem Val solo's both.

Originally posted by Eminence


You are not allowed to touch my words.

Originally posted by RagingBoner

The reason Yoda concludes that he was unable to stop Palpatine is precisely because they were too emphasized with fighting.


Exactly.

"You know those funky star-destroying Sith powers in the history books? Our answer is 'kill them with laser swords before they can use them'. Sith army? 'Kill them with laser swords'. We are very good at killing things with laser swords."

Yoda wasn't able to stop Palpatine because he was like five times smaller and had a much more precarious position on the platform when the explosion occurred.

Another instance where EU provides a retarded explanation to an obvious situation.

Blax
Yoda wasn't able to stop Palpatine because he was like five times smaller and had a much more precarious position on the platform when the explosion occurred.

Another instance where EU provides a retarded explanation to an obvious situation.

I'm fairly certain Stover wasn't referring to just the duel itself, but Yoda's inability to stop Palpatine's plans.

Which makes sense, thematically, given that it's how Luke managed to beat Palpatine at Endor.

Originally posted by RE: Blaxican
Yoda wasn't able to stop Palpatine because he was like five times smaller and had a much more precarious position on the platform when the explosion occurred.

Another instance where EU provides a retarded explanation to an obvious situation.

All that could have stood between the revenge of the sith and peace was a rail.

Originally posted by Q99
Exactly.

"You know those funky star-destroying Sith powers in the history books? Our answer is 'kill them with laser swords before they can use them'. Sith army? 'Kill them with laser swords'. We are very good at killing things with laser swords."
This made me smile.

Originally posted by Stealth Moose
All that could have stood between the revenge of the sith and peace was a rail.

Er, was it? He seemed pretty fine afterwards, like, he literally just stands up like it was no big deal. He just chose not to continue to fight because I guess he knew he couldn't win?

Maybe not either.

Maybe he just really had to go I guess. When you gotta go, you gotta go.

he did have to go. Bail organa wasn't just gonna wait forever, he was an important man, with things to do.

Originally posted by truejedi
he did have to go. Bail organa wasn't just gonna wait forever, he was an important man, with things to do.

Like stabbing people with knives.

yeah! (like, when did he do that?)

Originally posted by truejedi
yeah! (like, when did he do that?)

It was a Dexter related joke.

Yeah, he needed to get to FVCKING YOU BACK IN WAYS YOU NEVER EVEN IMAGINED!

HE'LL DO WHAT HE WANTS! WHENEVER HE WANTS! TO WHOEVER HE WANTS!

COUNT ON IT!

Originally posted by Nephthys
Maybe he just really had to go I guess. When you gotta go, you gotta go.

Parking by the senate building is expensive. He gave it ten minutes. The meter maid is scarier than Palpatine for sure.

WTF is wrong with you ppl

When people were saying the top ten sith ever

Sidious was listed no.1

Does Sidious have a golden jaw mask? No. You lose this round, 2 fishys.