Thor vs Depowered Tyrant...

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TheLordofMurder
In this senario, Thor is in full Warriors Madness and has equipped both his Belt of Strength and his Asgardian Battle Armor...

In this state, how does he fare against Depowered Tyrant compared to Thanos?

Rage.Of.Olympus
What's full Warrior Madness? Is that a ten time strength increase?

TheLordofMurder
Yes...

So here his strength is effectively 20 times greater than normal...

Damborgson
If it is REAL warrior madness (not B&T) and he has the belt and Armor....Im going with "Thor greatly outperforms Thanos but still loses" Idk though this one is tough...

Rage.Of.Olympus
You want to give Thor a 20 times strength increase? Christ, that's a ridiculous amp, especially considering what Thor has done in the past.

Is Thor sane or is he a raging lunatic?

TheLordofMurder
He is sane; thus not in "Blood and Thunder" Thor mode...

But he is in "bezerker mode" nonetheless...if that makes any sense.

TheLordofMurder
True Warriors Madness=Bezerker Mode...
Blood and Thunder Thor=Raving Lunatic Mode...

carver9
Thor wins this without a doubt.

Batman-Prime
Thor would do better then Thanos but he would still lose in the end.

Rage.Of.Olympus
Thor's done everything from hurting Skyfather level entities to breaking through Celestial Armor at significantly less powerful levels. A non holding back Thor with a 20 times increase in strength, Thor should imho just straight up like punch Tyrant's head off. That's just a silly increase in strength.

carver9
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
A non holding back Thor with a 20 times increase in strength, Thor should imho just straight up like punch Tyrant's head off.

Exactly.

Especially when we have Thor with the belt hitting holes inside of Celestials. Multiply that Celestial busting strength by 10... Tyrant dies.

TheLordofMurder
All opinions welcome...but dont forget to vote on the poll!!

I am very interested in seeing what the consensus is here pertaining this matchup...

Damborgson
Yeah Carver and Rage are probably right....That is just so much striking power that Tyrant wouldnt be able to deal with it...Tyrant is a beast but I gave him to much credit...

Black bolt z
I'm gonna say tyrant.

h1a8
Originally posted by Black bolt z
I'm gonna say tyrant. Either answer the question completely or don't post. Geez you guys kill me with not following directions.

quanchi112
Tyrant wins.

zopzop
Going to have to go with DP Tyrant here. Sure Thor will get some excellent shots in, since DP Tyrant seems to like toying with his prey.

But just ask Thanos (maybe with amp seeing as how it's debatable why he was holding on to that Orb for dear life) what happens when DP Tyrant gets serious and puts his foot down. Thanos ran for his life.

Simbon
How well-supported is the x10 strength feat-wise? I ask because there are a lot of number statements in comics that aren't really supported by feats. The unipower's 50x effect, for instance, doesn't seem to correspond with the extremely varied results it has on the people who have wielded it; Sentry never, ever displayed anything close to the power of a million exploding suns; Nefaria's 100x powers were just a pretext to make a superman clone, etc. etc.

carver9
Originally posted by Simbon
How well-supported is the x10 strength feat-wise? I ask because there are a lot of number statements in comics that aren't really supported by feats. The unipower's 50x effect, for instance, doesn't seem to correspond with the extremely varied results it has on the people who have wielded it; Sentry never, ever displayed anything close to the power of a million exploding suns; Nefaria's 100x powers were just a pretext to make a superman clone, etc. etc.

He punched through a Celestial with his belt that sent shockwaves across the planet.

cdtm
Originally posted by carver9
Exactly.

Especially when we have Thor with the belt hitting holes inside of Celestials. Multiply that Celestial busting strength by 10... Tyrant dies.

The Skyfathers and The Destroyer couldn't hurt Celestial armor, but Thor could.

imo, that sounds like a case of PIS.

cdtm
Thor outperforms Thanos. But I don't think he can win...

Even at depowered levels, Tyrant still made Galactus back down.

iceman24567
Thor wrecks him

carver9
Originally posted by cdtm
The Skyfathers and The Destroyer couldn't hurt Celestial armor, but Thor could.

imo, that sounds like a case of PIS.

That just shows you how powerful the belt made Thor.

Simbon
Originally posted by carver9
He punched through a Celestial with his belt that sent shockwaves across the planet.

I meant non-PIS examples. If you think Thor at regular levels has half the requisite power to pull that feat off, you are sadly mistaken.

cdtm
Originally posted by carver9
That just shows you how powerful the belt made Thor.

More powerful then the giant Asgard inhabited Destroyer? What the f**k?

h1a8
Thor wrecks Tyrant with ease. Thanos is not more than 2x as strong as Thor. 20x is overkill

Rage.Of.Olympus
I honestly find it difficult to even picture Thor with a 20x strength amp. Even on average, with this much of an amp, Thor should go around accidentally destroying planets with a tap. On high end portrayals, a non amped Thor can operate very far up the food chain.

TheLordofMurder
I am taking a look at the polls and I am shocked by the results; at this moment half you think this is spite (spite against Thor that is) and that Thor with x20 strength and significantly enhanced durability gets owned just like the other Heralds did!??

Really??

In the state presented in the OP, Thor is a bonafide Trans Tier character bare minimum; how the heck does he get owned just like Surfer and the other Heralds as a result?

In my honest opinion, option2...the one where he out performs the Heralds, but does worse than Thanos...should be the worse performance Thor could have against DP Tyrant in this senario.


For those of you who picked Thor gets Spite'ed...and own up to your vote...explain why Thor does no better than the Heralds did.

KuRuPT Thanosi
This is just silly. Even with the Amp... Tyrant would still put down Thor and that would be that. Thor might be stronger, but he durability STILL wouldn't be able to hold up against Tyrant. Thor goes down and its not pretty

TheLordofMurder
Even with his Asgardian Battle Armor on?

It withstood The Midgard Serpents "death strike" without sustaining damage (Thor only fell because his bones were made frail by Hela's curse)...

And even withstood multiple attacks from Exitars inner defenses before failing...

KuRuPT Thanosi
Honestly, please for God's sake don't bring up Exitar as if that isn't PIS or a normal thor showing. Odin with the backing of ALL the skyfather/uni-mind in the Destroyer got punked by a WEAKER celestial than Thor did well against... Nah.. just not buying it.

quanchi112
Originally posted by iceman24567
Thor wrecks him Based on which Tyrant showings ?

TheLordofMurder
I'm not talking about the armor destroying feat or his God Blast at the moment; I am talking about the buff to Thors damage soak the Battle Armor will give him...

I think it will give him the ability to sustain punishment from Tyrant significantly better than the other Heralds did; I personally (unlike a few here) dont think Thor can win this fight...

I think Tyrant eventually gets serious and blasts Thors Asgardian Batlle Armor into smitherines and kills him, but Thor should out perform the other Heralds bare minimum...

TheLordofMurder
So no one cares to explain just how Thor gets spite'ed here?

Simbon
The spite contingent is obviously biased, but the "Thor destroys" folks haven't demonstrated that the multiplier given by warrior madness is accurate. Thor's amps will make him stronger, but 20x seems incredibly dubious.

KuRuPT Thanosi
I don't think it's spite at all, in fact, I voted for Thor doing better than Thanos but eventually losing. So explaining the spite thing I cannot do. What it comes down to, and why we agree LOM, is Thor will eventually go down via his durability and armor being busted.

Stoic
Tyrant pulls him apart.

YoungGunna
How could you guys say Tyrant stomps Monarch but Thor beats Tyrant confused

Stoic
Originally posted by YoungGunna
How could you guys say Tyrant stomps Monarch but Thor beats Tyrant confused

Personally I think Tyrant would take Thor and Monarch.

YoungGunna
Originally posted by Stoic
Personally I think Tyrant would take Thor and Monarch.
I'm just saying some of these guys need to hop off

Black bolt z
Originally posted by h1a8
Thor wrecks Tyrant with ease. Thanos is not more than 2x as strong as Thor. 20x is overkill Please prove anything you just said is true.

Damborgson
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Thor%20Random/ThorWarriorMadness01502.jpg

Here Thor says that WM increases his strength 10x. But the Thor from B&T was not true WM thor as said by odin...

celeyhyga17
Thor gets buttraped...

He gets DP'ed....

Simbon
Originally posted by Damborgson
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Thor%20Random/ThorWarriorMadness01502.jpg

Here Thor says that WM increases his strength 10x. But the Thor from B&T was not true WM thor as said by odin...

That's what I'm saying, though -- it's only stated to be a 10x power increase -- feats don't back it up.

Damborgson
Originally posted by Simbon
That's what I'm saying, though -- it's only stated to be a 10x power increase -- feats don't back it up. yeah its never actually happened if im correct...

Simbon
Originally posted by Damborgson
yeah its never actually happened if im correct...

Which means that this whole thread is a lie!

Rage.Of.Olympus
Before Thor #502, Warrior Madness was basically Thor entering a blood lusted state. No amp was mentioned up until then, where the writer threw in a completely random piece of information. I have no clue where the 10x bit came from. During Loeb's tenure on Thor, the title had hit a real low imo.

h1a8
Originally posted by Black bolt z
Please prove anything you just said is true.

Thanos not being more than 2x stronger than Thor is true by default.
Tyrant hasn't shown blunt force durability to withstand a 20x stronger Thor. Thus he goes down by default.

Hyperion Prime
I voted thor does better than Thanos, but still loses. But then again I still don't think he is as durable as Thanos. Yes I think Thanos is more durable than Asgardian armour. So maybe he won't do that well.

Allankles
Originally posted by h1a8
Thor wrecks Tyrant with ease. Thanos is not more than 2x as strong as Thor. 20x is overkill

Thanos isn't anywhere near twice as strong as Thor.

As for the thread: Thor would absolutely mangle Tyrant under these conditions.

Bentley
Thor loses eventually. He'd lose against Thanos too...

KuRuPT Thanosi
Originally posted by Allankles
Thanos isn't anywhere near twice as strong as Thor.

As for the thread: Thor would absolutely mangle Tyrant under these conditions.

I know.. Thanos is more than 2x stronger... you're right.

KuRuPT Thanosi
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Before Thor #502, Warrior Madness was basically Thor entering a blood lusted state. No amp was mentioned up until then, where the writer threw in a completely random piece of information. I have no clue where the 10x bit came from. During Loeb's tenure on Thor, the title had hit a real low imo.

Its called a recton, we are all familiar with them

KuRuPT Thanosi
Originally posted by Damborgson
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Thor%20Random/ThorWarriorMadness01502.jpg

Here Thor says that WM increases his strength 10x. But the Thor from B&T was not true WM thor as said by odin...

Correction, both Warlock and BRB (two characters extremely familiar with Thor) comment that it's WM mode and that is explaining his apparant increase in power.

quanchi112
Originally posted by Allankles
Thanos isn't anywhere near twice as strong as Thor.

As for the thread: Thor would absolutely mangle Tyrant under these conditions. Based off of what ? You actually think Thor could be a threat to Galactus to under these conditions I take it.

h1a8
Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
I know.. Thanos is more than 2x stronger... you're right. Prove that Thanos is more than 2x stronger than Thor. I want to see what you are smoking.

h1a8
Originally posted by quanchi112
Based off of what ? You actually think Thor could be a threat to Galactus to under these conditions I take it.
Based off Thanos never appearing or showing himself to be more than 2x stronger than Thor.


Thor ran off a weakened Galactus under normal levels. I don't see it far fetched for him to run off a weakened Galactus (DP Tyrant level) when Thor is 20x more powerful.

KuRuPT Thanosi
Originally posted by h1a8
Prove that Thanos is more than 2x stronger than Thor. I want to see what you are smoking.

Besides the fact that he's tossed Thor aside like a weak feeb? Besides the fact like Hulk who has looked physical more powerful than Thor is pretty much all their confrontations has been dealt with and mocked as if he's a weak feeb? How about Mangog physically overpowering Thor with ease.. That same mangog took orders and backed down from Thanos when he got smart. How about Tyrant who was one shotting heralds like children.. said to Thanos.. I can tell you're more powerful than the others... Thanos says.. Of course.. I'm Thanos. Thanos then goes on to lock up in a test of strength with Tyrant and stalemate him for a period of time. How about just locking up with drax in a physical struggle blowing up a planet?

h1a8
Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Besides the fact that he's tossed Thor aside like a weak feeb? Besides the fact like Hulk who has looked physical more powerful than Thor is pretty much all their confrontations has been dealt with and mocked as if he's a weak feeb? How about Mangog physically overpowering Thor with ease.. That same mangog took orders and backed down from Thanos when he got smart. How about Tyrant who was one shotting heralds like children.. said to Thanos.. I can tell you're more powerful than the others... Thanos says.. Of course.. I'm Thanos. Thanos then goes on to lock up in a test of strength with Tyrant and stalemate him for a period of time. How about just locking up with drax in a physical struggle blowing up a planet? Thor weighs less than a ton. Weakers have many times tossed strongers around in the comic. Look at the instances involving Juggernaut. And looking physically more powerful in comics isn't the same as BEING physically more powerful. You ok dude?
Of course Hulk looks more powerful as HE IS BIGGER. DUH?
Mangog taking orders from something doesn't prove that they are physically superior to him. Many take orders from Lex Luthor yet Luthor is much weaker physically. Kingpin, Tombstone, etc. are other examples.

Tyrant never one-shotted anyone with physical blows alone. So you lie when you say this. IMO, Gladiator would have got in that ass if he didn't get caught off guard.

Thanos had the orb silly of course he was more powerful. Plus being more powerful doesn't mean you are physically stronger. Big difference. And Thanos being stronger still doesn't mean he was more than 2x as strong. So at best all you have shown is that Thanos may be a little stronger but certainly you have not shown he is more than 2x stronger.

Tyrant was never proven himself to be more than 2x Thor in strength either. Plus Thanos had the orb which you are forgetting. Plus it was a small moment in time they were locked up.

Thor top strength feats shit all over the Drax Thanos one. Did you know it was a shared feat and Drax had something to do with it too?
Did you know that the two didn't destroy the planet directly but indirectly by causing instability making the planet destroy itself under ITS OWN FORCE.

I rebutted all of your reasons. Thus nothing you have posted even showed that Thanos is more than 1.5x stronger than Thor.

zopzop
Originally posted by h1a8
Thor top strength feats shit all over the Drax Thanos one.

Like? I'm genuinely curious.

Allankles
Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
I know.. Thanos is more than 2x stronger... you're right.

Thanos is not close to being 2x stronger than Thor (let alone whatever inflated idea you have of his strength level). He's a lot less stronger than that, don't be ridiculous.

vince_slice
Originally posted by Allankles
Thanos is not close to being 2x stronger than Thor (let alone whatever inflated idea you have of his strength level). He's a lot less stronger than that, don't be ridiculous.

Yeah that's why Thanos was able to physically stalemate insane power gem Thor for a while. Unless you think insane power gem Thor isn't at least twice as strong as regular Thor.

Rage.Of.Olympus
I don't.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Correction, both Warlock and BRB (two characters extremely familiar with Thor) comment that it's WM mode and that is explaining his apparant increase in power.

Warlock believed that it was not Warrior Madness, and was proven right by Thanos and his instruments. Beta Ray Bill and Sif however assumed it was in fact Warrior Madness. They were proven to be incorrect.

Beta Ray Bill claimed that Thor drew strength from his insanity and Strange said that his rage fueled him. That is more than likely metaphysical crap similar to a hero drawing strength from his loved ones or Thor noticeably outperforming his previous performance when enraged. Far more believable than Thor suddenly getting actual dynamic strength in order to explain a few losses because you don't like them.

I honestly don't think people ever understood the premise of the arc. Thor went mad because Odin manipulated his soul and tore it down to bits and pieces. He gave away part of what makes Thor himself, part of his power, away.

You'd be hard pressed to find a bigger Thor fan than me, but even I don't think Thor's well of strength is that deep.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Besides the fact that he's tossed Thor aside like a weak feeb?

Are you referring to the second encounter when Thanos punches a leaping Thor over his head?

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Besides the fact like Hulk who has looked physical more powerful than Thor is pretty much all their confrontations has been dealt with and mocked as if he's a weak feeb?

When has Thanos ever overpowered any Hulk but the Merged/Professor incarnation ? Thor was pushing that Hulk to it's very limits -he nearly turned into Banner- in a fight he was staging.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
How about Mangog physically overpowering Thor with ease.. That same mangog took orders and backed down from Thanos when he got smart.

Mangog had the strength edge but he was not overpowering Thor easily. Silver Age Mangog was capable of doing so, but Jurgen's Mangog is far beneath the original.

Not the most concrete basis on which to establish a power/strength superiority but whatever. Thanos had at the very least a durability edge.

I just noticed how whenever it's in the favor of the Titan, that Thanos being a clone is never mentioned but when it doesn't suit you, the first response is that it's a clone.

For the record, I'd refrain from bringing up a scene where Thor with double the strength beats down a significantly amped Thanos -even if we assume the clone is weaker at base, I doubt the gap was noticeable- while trying to argue that the Titan has more than double Thor's strength.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
How about Tyrant who was one shotting heralds like children.. said to Thanos.. I can tell you're more powerful than the others... Thanos says.. Of course.. I'm Thanos. Thanos then goes on to lock up in a test of strength with Tyrant and stalemate him for a period of time.

Tyrant took them down relatively easily, but he never one shotted Gladiator, Bill, or Surfer as I recall. For the record, Thanos did have a power up.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
How about just locking up with drax in a physical struggle blowing up a planet?

Doesn't prove a strength superiority to Thor unfortunately.

I'm fine with you thinking Thanos has the strength edge over Thor -over twice as strong is utter bullshit- but you don't have the most solid of reasons.

Allankles
Originally posted by vince_slice
Yeah that's why Thanos was able to physically stalemate insane power gem Thor for a while. Unless you think insane power gem Thor isn't at least twice as strong as regular Thor.

Since they were trading blows I don't see how it would factor. Not to mention he wasn't even going to win a purely physical battle in the long run. If PG Thor is assumed to be twice as strong, then Thanos escaping the altercation doesn't really help your case.

People don't seem to grasp just what it means to be twice as strong as a guy like Thor. You don't even have to be as strong as Thor to be able to hurt him or beat him in a physical battle.

Just being on that millions of tons+ range would make you dangerous to teams of similar people. It's why guys like Superman, Black Adam et al have team busting feats. To be twice as strong as them... there's just no conclusive proof.

KuRuPT Thanosi
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
I don't.



Warlock believed that it was not Warrior Madness, and was proven right by Thanos and his instruments. Beta Ray Bill and Sif however assumed it was in fact Warrior Madness. They were proven to be incorrect.

Beta Ray Bill claimed that Thor drew strength from his insanity and Strange said that his rage fueled him. That is more than likely metaphysical crap similar to a hero drawing strength from his loved ones or Thor noticeably outperforming his previous performance when enraged. Far more believable than Thor suddenly getting actual dynamic strength in order to explain a few losses because you don't like them.

I honestly don't think people ever understood the premise of the arc. Thor went mad because Odin manipulated his soul and tore it down to bits and pieces. He gave away part of what makes Thor himself, part of his power, away.

You'd be hard pressed to find a bigger Thor fan than me, but even I don't think Thor's well of strength is that deep.



Are you referring to the second encounter when Thanos punches a leaping Thor over his head?



When has Thanos ever overpowered any Hulk but the Merged/Professor incarnation ? Thor was pushing that Hulk to it's very limits -he nearly turned into Banner- in a fight he was staging.



Mangog had the strength edge but he was not overpowering Thor easily. Silver Age Mangog was capable of doing so, but Jurgen's Mangog is far beneath the original.

Not the most concrete basis on which to establish a power/strength superiority but whatever. Thanos had at the very least a durability edge.

I just noticed how whenever it's in the favor of the Titan, that Thanos being a clone is never mentioned but when it doesn't suit you, the first response is that it's a clone.

For the record, I'd refrain from bringing up a scene where Thor with double the strength beats down a significantly amped Thanos -even if we assume the clone is weaker at base, I doubt the gap was noticeable- while trying to argue that the Titan has more than double Thor's strength.



Tyrant took them down relatively easily, but he never one shotted Gladiator, Bill, or Surfer as I recall. For the record, Thanos did have a power up.



Doesn't prove a strength superiority to Thor unfortunately.

I'm fine with you thinking Thanos has the strength edge over Thor -over twice as strong is utter bullshit- but you don't have the most solid of reasons.

We've been over this before... The fact is, two people VERY familiar with Thor attributed what he was able to do with WM. Whether it was true WM or not is irrelevent to Thor NEVER being able to deal with the people he did in the manner he did. There is nothing that can refute this fact. So what it was true WM or quasi WM it matters not. Thor was more powerful in this state then in a normal state. Period.

Yes I am, and the ease it was done with. Thor has NEVER manhandled or tossed Thanos aside. Ever. In fact, Thor or the heroes know he can't take on Thanos alone. He needs help and help is usually there.

Rage, the facts are simple and you know.. pretty much every hulk vs. Thor fight... is shown as Hulk being stronger than Thor but Thor using his skill and versatility in combat to level the playing field or give hiim the advantage. You know this to be true just like I do. That is how the fights are portrayed. Thus, when Thanos easily overpowered The Hulk with another brick (Thing) at the same time, and mocked their strength, yet it's futher proof of how strong Thanos is. Shoot a long time Hulk writer even made the point clear when asked about how Thanos compares to Hulk in strength. He said very clear... Thanos is in his own League. Which exactly played out in their only encounter.

I didn't think I needed to mention it was a clone, because that in fact, helps my case as you well know. I assume people know this and have read the arc in question. The fact is, an inferior clone ordered around mangog, and when mangog got smart and testy, Thanos put him in check. Period. Sure, this isn't a strength feat per se, but it does prove that magog felt Thanos was above him in strenght or power or whatever you'd like to use. I've never seen mangog take orders from anyone, let alone obey someone he can overpower and beat. Doesn't happen.

I'm starting to think you didn't read when Tyrant fought the peak heralds with the way you talk about the fight. BRB WAS one shot with ease. Surfer was one shot and put down... he got up after a little bit after Tyrant had punked some others.. only to be put down in ONE SHOT again.

As far as your last paragraph... do I need to find the times where you've admitted Thanos was around 2x as strong as Thor? So for you to say it's "utter bullshit" to think that is well, laughable and not smart on your part.

Rage.Of.Olympus
Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
We've been over this before... The fact is, two people VERY familiar with Thor attributed what he was able to do with WM. Whether it was true WM or not is irrelevent to Thor NEVER being able to deal with the people he did in the manner he did. There is nothing that can refute this fact. So what it was true WM or quasi WM it matters not. Thor was more powerful in this state then in a normal state. Period.

No, Beta Ray Bill and Sif attributed his insanity to the Warrior Madness. Assuming Thor has somehow been amped because he's become less than what he once was is both illogical and asinine imo.

What is your definition of a normal state? An everyday Thor? As long as you accept that Thor can operate on that level when pissed off or angry, then I'm fine with it.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Yes I am, and the ease it was done with. Thor has NEVER manhandled or tossed Thanos aside. Ever. In fact, Thor or the heroes know he can't take on Thanos alone. He needs help and help is usually there.

So Thor leaping through the air and getting knocked over for zero effect is an illustration of superior strength? I might as well argue that Masterson knocking Thanos to the ground and preventing him from gaining the Infinity Gauntlet is an illustration of superior strength.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Rage, the facts are simple and you know.. pretty much every hulk vs. Thor fight... is shown as Hulk being stronger than Thor but Thor using his skill and versatility in combat to level the playing field or give hiim the advantage. You know this to be true just like I do. That is how the fights are portrayed. Thus, when Thanos easily overpowered The Hulk with another brick (Thing) at the same time, and mocked their strength, yet it's futher proof of how strong Thanos is. Shoot a long time Hulk writer even made the point clear when asked about how Thanos compares to Hulk in strength. He said very clear... Thanos is in his own League. Which exactly played out in their only encounter.

no expression

Have you read any of their fights? How did you come to the conclusion that in all their battles, Thor is illustrated as inferior strength wise and relies on skill/speed?

Please don't go down this road of stupidity because you will lose. The evidence simply isn't there. Of course, that's never stopped you before.

Who gives a shit if Thanos overpowered the Professor Hulk and the Thing?

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
I didn't think I needed to mention it was a clone, because that in fact, helps my case as you well know. I assume people know this and have read the arc in question. The fact is, an inferior clone ordered around mangog, and when mangog got smart and testy, Thanos put him in check. Period. Sure, this isn't a strength feat per se, but it does prove that magog felt Thanos was above him in strenght or power or whatever you'd like to use. I've never seen mangog take orders from anyone, let alone obey someone he can overpower and beat. Doesn't happen.

Like I said, not a very concrete basis on which to establish a power/strength superiority. Weaker characters have punked stronger characters in the past.

For the record, Jurgen's Mangog was noticeably different from past incarnations for some reason. I have no other evidence to make a comparison to. For all I know, Loki could have ordered around that incarnation.

That being said, I believe Jurgens intended for Thanos to be overall more powerful than Mangog. Or at least more formidable. That was intended to be the real Thanos after all, and I read it in such a context.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
I'm starting to think you didn't read when Tyrant fought the peak heralds with the way you talk about the fight. BRB WAS one shot with ease. Surfer was one shot and put down... he got up after a little bit after Tyrant had punked some others.. only to be put down in ONE SHOT again.

You and I have different definitions of ease. I didn't read the fight? Bill was struck at the very least twice by Tyrant. The same can be said for Gladiator and Surfer.

Now that I think about it, after being struck twice, I believe Bill might not have been down. IIRC when Tyrant blasts Gladiator, Bill was shown to be on his knee or getting up. Don't take that as gospel however. I can't be too sure as I don't have access to the issue.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
As far as your last paragraph... do I need to find the times where you've admitted Thanos was around 2x as strong as Thor? So for you to say it's "utter bullshit" to think that is well, laughable and not smart on your part.

Don't put words in my mouth. My statement was very clear. The notion that Thanos is over twice as strong as Thor is bullshit.

Find a quote where I point out the Titan having a 2x strength advantage. If nothing else other than for shit and giggles. The biggest edge in strength I can ever recall giving the Titan is a 50% one. And even then...

quanchi112
Originally posted by h1a8
Based off Thanos never appearing or showing himself to be more than 2x stronger than Thor.


Thor ran off a weakened Galactus under normal levels. I don't see it far fetched for him to run off a weakened Galactus (DP Tyrant level) when Thor is 20x more powerful. The Thor power gem battle against him pretty much proves it in my book. It's never been stated he's twice as strong, three times, or anything else so it's just heavily supported by their on panel encounters.

Thor ran off a weakened Galactus after he was fighting ego using his mot powerful attack. Since then Galactus has owned Thor and company easily. Galactus being weakened is the key word.

Originally posted by vince_slice
Yeah that's why Thanos was able to physically stalemate insane power gem Thor for a while. Unless you think insane power gem Thor isn't at least twice as strong as regular Thor. Rage doesn't believe anything he posts he's not even a Thor fan any longer.

the Darkone
Originally posted by Damborgson
yeah its never actually happened if im correct...

It has happen the first time when Thor battle Him/Adam Warlock, Warlock had to retreat or die.

The Second time is when Thor battled Maestro Hulk in the arctic or North pole.


10x strength has been demonstrated more than once!

KuRuPT Thanosi
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
No, Beta Ray Bill and Sif attributed his insanity to the Warrior Madness. Assuming Thor has somehow been amped because he's become less than what he once was is both illogical and asinine imo.

What is your definition of a normal state? An everyday Thor? As long as you accept that Thor can operate on that level when pissed off or angry, then I'm fine with it.



So Thor leaping through the air and getting knocked over for zero effect is an illustration of superior strength? I might as well argue that Masterson knocking Thanos to the ground and preventing him from gaining the Infinity Gauntlet is an illustration of superior strength.



no expression

Have you read any of their fights? How did you come to the conclusion that in all their battles, Thor is illustrated as inferior strength wise and relies on skill/speed?

Please don't go down this road of stupidity because you will lose. The evidence simply isn't there. Of course, that's never stopped you before.

Who gives a shit if Thanos overpowered the Professor Hulk and the Thing?



Like I said, not a very concrete basis on which to establish a power/strength superiority. Weaker characters have punked stronger characters in the past.

For the record, Jurgen's Mangog was noticeably different from past incarnations for some reason. I have no other evidence to make a comparison to. For all I know, Loki could have ordered around that incarnation.

That being said, I believe Jurgens intended for Thanos to be overall more powerful than Mangog. Or at least more formidable. That was intended to be the real Thanos after all, and I read it in such a context.



You and I have different definitions of ease. I didn't read the fight? Bill was struck at the very least twice by Tyrant. The same can be said for Gladiator and Surfer.

Now that I think about it, after being struck twice, I believe Bill might not have been down. IIRC when Tyrant blasts Gladiator, Bill was shown to be on his knee or getting up. Don't take that as gospel however. I can't be too sure as I don't have access to the issue.



Don't put words in my mouth. My statement was very clear. The notion that Thanos is over twice as strong as Thor is bullshit.

Find a quote where I point out the Titan having a 2x strength advantage. If nothing else other than for shit and giggles. The biggest edge in strength I can ever recall giving the Titan is a 50% one. And even then...

Ummmm yeah I'm pretty much okay with that. As long as you agree that Thor doesn't normally operate at that level, and that it's a boost of sorts. So I guess we agree.

Fair enough. The point was more that Thanos can dispatch of, and has dispatched Thor in an ease fashion before i.e. little effort. Thor.. has NEVER done any such thing with Thanos. So, while not a strength feat per se, I would then argue.. how could Thor be so much stronger than Thanos and yet not once ever overpower him, manhandle him or beat him with ease as Thanos has.

Really? So you don't feel there fight are generally portrayed as Hulk being physical stronger (even if a little) while Thor is strong but relies more on his skill? I pretty much gather that feeling from pretty much every fight they have ever had.

We pretty much agree on the Mangog/Thanos scene so not much to comment there.

So let me ask for your clarification now of your stance... Do you feel Thor is stronger than Thanos or how do you rank them?

zeel
thor

vince_slice
Originally posted by Allankles
Since they were trading blows I don't see how it would factor. Not to mention he wasn't even going to win a purely physical battle in the long run. If PG Thor is assumed to be twice as strong, then Thanos escaping the altercation doesn't really help your case.

People don't seem to grasp just what it means to be twice as strong as a guy like Thor. You don't even have to be as strong as Thor to be able to hurt him or beat him in a physical battle.

Just being on that millions of tons+ range would make you dangerous to teams of similar people. It's why guys like Superman, Black Adam et al have team busting feats. To be twice as strong as them... there's just no conclusive proof.

Thanos doesn't need to beat insane PG Thor to prove he's stronger than regular Thor.

The point is he was stalemating insane PG Thor physically for a while. It's obvious he couldn't stalemate him forever though since Thor was tapping into the PG and growing stronger by the second.

Unless you think insane PG Thor is the same strength level as regular Thor (which would be ludicrous) than it's clear evidence that Thanos is stronger than regular Thor.

Rage.Of.Olympus
Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Ummmm yeah I'm pretty much okay with that. As long as you agree that Thor doesn't normally operate at that level, and that it's a boost of sorts. So I guess we agree.

I'm fine with that. It's the asinine stances like Thor can't attain this level by himself "because" that annoy me.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Fair enough. The point was more that Thanos can dispatch of, and has dispatched Thor in an ease fashion before i.e. little effort. Thor.. has NEVER done any such thing with Thanos. So, while not a strength feat per se, I would then argue.. how could Thor be so much stronger than Thanos and yet not once ever overpower him, manhandle him or beat him with ease as Thanos has.

Point me to a scene where Thanos dispatches Thor with little effort or ease because he didn't even accomplish anything besides an inconvenience here:
http://i779.photobucket.com/albums/yy73/R-O-G/Thor/ThorvsThanosThing1.jpg
http://i779.photobucket.com/albums/yy73/R-O-G/Thor/ThorvsThanosThing2.jpg

That's no more of an illustration of a strength advantage than this is:
http://i779.photobucket.com/albums/yy73/R-O-G/Thor/ThorvsThanos7-1.jpg
http://i779.photobucket.com/albums/yy73/R-O-G/Thor/ThorvsThanos8-1.jpg

Or this:
http://i779.photobucket.com/albums/yy73/R-O-G/Thor/ThorvsThanos3.jpg

Frankly, the above scenes are better demonstrations of strength than what you referenced.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Really? So you don't feel there fight are generally portrayed as Hulk being physical stronger (even if a little) while Thor is strong but relies more on his skill? I pretty much gather that feeling from pretty much every fight they have ever had.

Then you haven't been reading their confrontations or haven't read them in a while. Thor uses little to no skill/speed against Hulk and stands toe to toe for very extended periods of time (Hours and such) and does not miss a beat. The earliest I would allow for Hulk having some type of small strength advantage in a battle is #385 where a an enraged Bannerless Hulk finally gains the edge when Thor gets distracted. Moments before, Hulk and Thor locked up in a test of strength to a stalemate. At that point, that was like their 6th confrontation.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
So let me ask for your clarification now of your stance... Do you feel Thor is stronger than Thanos or how do you rank them?

I've made my position clear. I think Thanos should have the strength edge over a high end strongman like Thor but the Odinson would give him a run for his money. I also don't find it implausible that he could even overcome Thanos similar to a Kurse/Destroyer type situation when pushed far enough. Before you overreact, that doesn't mean Thor > Thanos.

Simply put, I doubt he's twice as strong as Thor. If Thor was at 100, Thanos would be no higher than 150 in my book. That's more than fair imho.

I think Thanos should stay dead. If he becomes a regularly appearing villain, sooner or later he'll be the main villain in a book such as Thor or Avengers and his stock might plummet. I don't really care about shit like that but I wager you do.

Allankles
Originally posted by vince_slice
Thanos doesn't need to beat insane PG Thor to prove he's stronger than regular Thor.

The point is he was stalemating insane PG Thor physically for a while. It's obvious he couldn't stalemate him forever though since Thor was tapping into the PG and growing stronger by the second.

Unless you think insane PG Thor is the same strength level as regular Thor (which would be ludicrous) than it's clear evidence that Thanos is stronger than regular Thor.

A case could be made that Thanos is stronger than Thor. But not close to 2x. You don't have to be anywhere close to 2x as strong to outmuscle an opponent when you're talking about people at those levels of strength. Just a facor of .2 i.e. 1.2x stronger, could mean an astronomical difference in strength.

h1a8
Originally posted by Allankles
A case could be made that Thanos is stronger than Thor. But not close to 2x. You don't have to be anywhere close to 2x as strong to outmuscle an opponent when you're talking about people at those levels of strength. Just a facor of .2 i.e. 1.2x stronger, could mean an astronomical difference in strength.
thumb up

For example, if character one can apply 10,000,000 tons of force then the other, who is 1.2x stronger, and can apply 12,000,000 tons. That means the stronger character would overpower the weaker by 2,000,000 tons if the two engaged in a grapple. This is enough to make the weaker look like a baby or worst (a rag doll).

If the two pushed against each other then the stronger would not only win but push the weaker with 2,000,000 tons backwards against their will.
This would send them to another state with ease.

vince_slice
Originally posted by Allankles
A case could be made that Thanos is stronger than Thor. But not close to 2x. You don't have to be anywhere close to 2x as strong to outmuscle an opponent when you're talking about people at those levels of strength. Just a facor of .2 i.e. 1.2x stronger, could mean an astronomical difference in strength.

So let me ask you then, how much stronger do you think insane PG Thor is compared to regular Thor. Keep in mind Insane Thor without the PG was already wrecking teams of heralds. Thanos physically stalemated insane Thor with the PG.

TheLordofMurder
Originally posted by h1a8
thumb up

For example, if character one can apply 10,000,000 tons of force then the other, who is 1.2x stronger, and can apply 12,000,000 tons. That means the stronger character would overpower the weaker by 2,000,000 tons if the two engaged in a grapple. This is enough to make the weaker look like a baby or worst (a rag doll).

If the two pushed against each other then the stronger would not only win but push the weaker with 2,000,000 tons backwards against their will.
This would send them to another state with ease.

thumb up thumb up thumb up


And now that that is stated, lets revisit Thor at x20 strength...

If (hypothetically; lets use the above numbers as an example) regular every day Thor can apply 10 million tons of force, but Thanos can apply 12 million tons of force (x1.2 strength advantage Thanos), Thanos absolutely wrecks Thor strength wise...

But under these conditions (True Warriors Madness + Belt of Strength) Thor would be far, far, far stronger than Thanos; it would be Thor at 200 million tons of force vs Thanos at 12 million tons of force...


So under these conditions, Thors hammer strikes would be powerful beyond imagine; Tyrant would feel true pain after getting hit by him....there would be no shrugging off these blows....Tyrant is going to recieve real damage here.

That said, I honestly still believe Tyrant wins; once he sees what hes up against, I believe Tyrant can up the ante to a level thats beyond Thors ability to combat...and Tyrant will kill him when this comes to pass.

IMHO, Thor should greatly out perform Thanos, but still lose...

Nihilist
laughing out loud at Rages excuse of Thor was leaping through the air when Thanos engaged him.

Rage.Of.Olympus
So I was wrong, Thor wasn't in the air? I honestly do not understand how that scene is a demonstration of strength superiority. I guess you believe that the Odinson has proved to be stronger than Thanos.

Nihilist
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
So I was wrong, Thor wasn't in the air? I honestly do not understand how that scene is a demonstration of strength superiority. I guess you believe that the Odinson has proved to be stronger than Thanos. So you think Thor was leaping to attack Thanos, when everybody else is being tossed aside by Thanos who were all alongside Thor at the time lulz

Rage.Of.Olympus
What? Thor was in the air and Thanos knocked him over himself. It's pretty straightforward. If you think that is an illustration of superior strength, then you better apply that silly logic across the board.

Nihilist
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
What? Thor was in the air and Thanos knocked him over himself. It's pretty straightforward. If you think that is an illustration of superior strength, then you better apply that silly logic across the board. Point out to me where i said anything about that showing superior strength. go ill wait for you to post it.

Rage.Of.Olympus
So you weren't agreeing with the stance? You just felt like saying...something?

Then forget it.

KuRuPT Thanosi
Rage it's not a strength feat per se, what it does illustrate is how easily Thanos has in that situation and others dismissed Thor with ease. Thor has NEVER done so to Thanos. Yet people are claiming Thor is stronger than Thanos. If this were true, he'd have situations of him manhandling Thanos or tossing him aside or something. Yet there is nothing like that. That was the point.

Rage.Of.Olympus
It's no more of a showing of strength superiority than the scenes I posted. Less so actually. As long as we have that clear, you can argue whatever you like bro. All he managed was to inconvenience Thor.

Who's claiming that? And we don't have any scenes of Thanos manhandling Thor for the record. Nor do we have any scenes of Thor proving to be convincingly stronger than Thanos. The closest we have to the latter would be scenes from the Infinity Gauntlet.

Nihilist
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
So you weren't agreeing with the stance? You just felt like saying...something?

Then forget it. I was just laughing at your usual piss poor stance/excuse.

zopzop
Unless I'm wrong didn't Thanos and Classic Drax destroy a world merely by going at it hand to hand? Thanos won that fight and in his rage Drax destroyed a nearby star or something right?

So Thanos PHYSICALLY overpowered a guy that can tear a star in two with his bare hands. And this was before any powerups from Death no?

Nihilist
You are correct ZopZop and Drax did destroy a planet under his onw power aswell.

h1a8
Originally posted by zopzop
Unless I'm wrong didn't Thanos and Classic Drax destroy a world merely by going at it hand to hand? Thanos won that fight and in his rage Drax destroyed a nearby star or something right?

So Thanos PHYSICALLY overpowered a guy that can tear a star in two with his bare hands. And this was before any powerups from Death no?

No.
They both destroyed a planet. It was a shared feat. Also, they didn't destroy the planet directly. They created an instability in the planet causing the planet to destroy itself under its own power. Thus the feat was less than destroying half a planet for Thanos. Not impressive whatsoever.

Tearing the core of a star out is a weak strength feat (more a durability feat). Assuming one can grab on to star material then it would be easy to tear it apart. All you have to do if overcome its gravity which is far less than you think. Hell, tearing carbonadium coils apart or secondary adamantium is a much better feat or destroying a planet with a couple of blows is better.

Lastly, I never seen Thanos overpower Drax physically.

psycho gundam
reported

Sr J-Bieb
Originally posted by psycho gundam
reported God. I just clicked the post to see what the deal was.

Good job PG, you're going God's work

Rage.Of.Olympus
Originally posted by Nihilist
I was just laughing at your usual piss poor stance/excuse.

My first instinct was to post a quote or two, make some logical observations and so on but it's a waste of time.

Stoic
What stops Tyrant from destroying Thors objects of power? I'm going with true power over artificial supplements on this. Tyrant wins.

h1a8
Originally posted by Stoic
What stops Tyrant from destroying Thors objects of power? I'm going with true power over artificial supplements on this. Tyrant wins. I don't understand. Elusidate!

Also it is not just about whether Tyrant will win but will Thor fair better than Thanos.

zopzop
Originally posted by h1a8
No.
They both destroyed a planet. It was a shared feat. Also, they didn't destroy the planet directly. They created an instability in the planet causing the planet to destroy itself under its own power. Thus the feat was less than destroying half a planet for Thanos. Not impressive whatsoever.

Tearing the core of a star out is a weak strength feat (more a durability feat). Assuming one can grab on to star material then it would be easy to tear it apart. All you have to do if overcome its gravity which is far less than you think. Hell, tearing carbonadium coils apart or secondary adamantium is a much better feat or destroying a planet with a couple of blows is better.

Lastly, I never seen Thanos overpower Drax physically.

Well the fact is, the two of them going at it was the cause of the planetary instability. At the end it was Thanos that was left standing, not Drax. Also I've never seen Thor fighting anyone that caused him to destroy an entire planet. Either directly or indirectly. I'll be glad to be be proven wrong if you can come up with scans.

The star feat is stupendous. Again, unless I'm wrong, a star's gravitational pull is several times that of a planet. Overcoming this and tearing it apart is nothing to sneeze at (hell it's the sun's gravitational pull that keeps all the planets in their place and stops them from flying off into the void). Thanos PHYSICALLY overpowered a guy that tore a star in half. Let me see a comparable feat by Thor.

h1a8
Originally posted by zopzop
Well the fact is, the two of them going at it was the cause of the planetary instability. At the end it was Thanos that was left standing, not Drax. Also I've never seen Thor fighting anyone that caused him to destroy an entire planet. Either directly or indirectly. I'll be glad to be be proven wrong if you can come up with scans.

The star feat is stupendous. Again, unless I'm wrong, a star's gravitational pull is several times that of a planet. Overcoming this and tearing it apart is nothing to sneeze at (hell it's the sun's gravitational pull that keeps all the planets in their place and stops them from flying off into the void). Thanos PHYSICALLY overpowered a guy that tore a star in half. Let me see a comparable feat by Thor.

It feat is in Thanos respect thread. The narration explains how the planet blows up. The feat only proves that Thanos is more durable than Drax (not stronger).

And I never seen Thanos overpower Drax physically.

The star feat is rather strange. It's just so impossible that we must say that Drax used more than physical strength (energy manipulation maybe?). With two little hands, how can one grab the core of a star? Wouldn't it be like vapor in your hands? Wouldn't it be like trying to grab a beach but only coming up with a hand full of sand? Maybe he grabbed a little and flew with it at such a violent speed it tore a rip through the star. This is like flying through something and leaving a rip through it. Since Pressure=Force/Area then he basically cut the star by merely flying through it. I mean a star is mostly hydrogen gas.
Nothing to really grab on solidly. And assuming you can grab it then you can only take a handful with you. That is why I said the gravational forces are less than what you think.

I would say escaping black holes or holding them is far greater as the gravitational pull is near infinite (if not infinite).

In summary, the feat is unquantifiable. Thor has unquantifiable feats too involving overcoming infinite force. As do Superman as well.

psycho gundam
basically only superman can do stupid shit without any doubt about it's feasibility.

h1a8
Originally posted by psycho gundam
basically only superman can do stupid shit without any doubt about it's feasibility. There are levels of stupid. Something can be stupid but still in the realm of suspension of disbelief. Other things are so far beyond the realm of suspension of disbelief (very stupid) that we just say IMPOSSIBLE or UNCLEAR.

I don't bring up the infinite feats that Superman has since they are IMPOSSIBLE and totally unquantifiable. I only bring up the feats where it is in the realm of calculable.

psycho gundam
just stop

you just used superman containing a singularity as an example on this very page

h1a8
Originally posted by psycho gundam
just stop

you just used superman containing a singularity as an example on this very page Containing a singularity is not as silly as the Drax feat. But I didn't use it as you say. I only mentioned as to show other characters have silly feats that trump what Drax did proving that Thanos is not the strongest out there.

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