Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.

Both opponents are locked in opposite ends of a WWE style cage. They are not allowed to exit the cage until someone wins. Knockout or death is allowed.

1. Standard gear in both.
2. No gear. Hand to hand only.

Outside the ring is Bruce in nightwings corner and Steve is in Franks acting as coaches for whatever it's worth.

Originally posted by rotiart
Both opponents are locked in opposite ends of a WWE style cage. They are not allowed to exit the cage until someone wins. Knockout or death is allowed.

1. Standard gear in both.
2. No gear. Hand to hand only.

Outside the ring is Bruce in nightwings corner and Steve is in Franks acting as coaches for whatever it's worth. smack down event or raw ?

I don't understan the difference I haven't watched wrestling in years

Smackdown for the fail, RAW for the win.

they merge and become Castle Grayson! the cheap Chinese knock off of Castle Grayskull... and a new superhero is formed, Chi Man... sorta like Iron Fist meets Charlie Chan.

1. unless Frank already has guns drawn, he loses.
2. Franks gets Dicked.

Originally posted by marwash22
1. unless Frank already has guns drawn, he loses.
2. Franks gets Dicked. not too sure for match 2 its a case of durability vs speed. I see a Marv vs. Kevin like scene from the film version of sin city. If Dick gets in too close trying to finish punisher it'll be lights out.

Match 1 I do agree that if Frank has an M16 w/ grenade launcher he'll blow dick away. but he's gonna need something with a bit higher fire rate than his pistol to compensate for Grayson's bullet dodging and fill the air with enough lead that his speed won't make a difference in the enclosed space. A pair of modified 1911 colts with extended clip magazines with a full auto option should do it.

not that i completely disagree with your assessment, but unlike Kevin and Marv, Grayson can knock Frank out.

Grayson in both scenarios, since no weapons allowed.

Originally posted by marwash22
not that i completely disagree with your assessment, but unlike Kevin and Marv, Grayson can knock Frank out.

Frank in both scenarios. Punisher's gone the distance in fights with Daredevil half a dozen times and Matt is comfortably better than Dick across the board in virtually every single way. Grayson won't be taking the majority from Castle.

Nobody takes an asskicking like Frank.

Dick Grayson FTW.

Originally posted by marwash22
Nobody takes an asskicking like Frank. Thought that said asslicking.

Originally posted by Mindset
Thought that said asslicking. of course you did.

To be fair it was one of your posts, so I'm not entirely to blame.

Grayson ftw...

for good measure Grayson climbs the cage and gives Castlouble ax handle.. then Wayne gives Grayson a steel chair which Grayson pops Castle with several times and then finally Grayson puts Castle in the stf and forces Castle to say "I quit"


Originally posted by chomperx9
Grayson in both scenarios, since no weapons allowed.



even with weapons Grayson due to his acrobatic manuevers can dodge the bullets

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Frank in both scenarios. Punisher's gone the distance in fights with Daredevil half a dozen times and Matt is comfortably better than Dick across the board in virtually every single way. Grayson won't be taking the majority from Castle.


Faulty reasoning. According to you, since DD is on Batman's league, Frank would give Batman a fight, which he'd do, but ultimately he'd be stomped.

Grayson has gone against countless of the best trained fighters in the DC universe, he's up there in agility and skill, which are exactly the areas in which Frank is "lacking". Frank does good against "comic" Daredevil, but he'd get beated by forum Matt, because speed and high end radar-sense are powerful together.

That said, Frank can get some wins if Grayson is too merciful. But if he fights Punisher as he would Deathstroke, Frank is screwed.

for weapons it comes down to frank aoe and rof. Guarantee you if he's got a rocket dick is going down. also a pair of high cycling machine pistols wielded by someone who isnt a storm trooper should hit dick.

Originally posted by Uriel005
for weapons it comes down to frank aoe and rof. Guarantee you if he's got a rocket dick is going down. also a pair of high cycling machine pistols wielded by someone who isnt a storm trooper should hit dick.


Come on, suddenly Frank has unerring aim but everyone who has shot at Grayson in all his career was incompetent?

Originally posted by Mindset
Thought that said asslicking. I did too.

Meet me somewhere.

Also, current Dick destroys him.

Originally posted by Starscream M
did current dick get an upgrade? Yes, the Batman factor upgrade.

Originally posted by thanos-prime

Grayson will win both scenarios

Dick isn't winning unless hes got really good damage soak.

Originally posted by Deadline
Dick isn't winning unless hes got really good damage soak. kevlar

Originally posted by Robin Dc
kevlar

yeah this is what people forget about the bat family.. their batsuits are full of kevlar.. all frank will accomplish using his guns would be just wasting bullets.. the batsuit will protect grayson from bullets as well as grayson's agility

Originally posted by Bentley
Faulty reasoning. According to you, since DD is on Batman's league, Frank would give Batman a fight, which he'd do, but ultimately he'd be stomped.


Unlike Nightwing who has been shown to be completely unable to lay a finger on Bruce unless he allows it to happen? Frank would give Bruce a better fight than Dick would ever dream of.

Originally posted by Bentley
Grayson has gone against countless of the best trained fighters in the DC universe, he's up there in agility and skill, which are exactly the areas in which Frank is "lacking". Frank does good against "comic" Daredevil, but he'd get beated by forum Matt, because speed and high end radar-sense are powerful together.


And outside of a few instances, every time Dick has fought "the best trained fighters in DC," he's been stomped. Batman. Bane. Shiva. Paper Monkey. They've all stomped him. Dick briefly stalemated Cass once before Alfred interrupted, but that isn't nearly enough to build the foundation of an argument to support the notion that Nightwing has a shot of beating Punisher. . Frank's shows against top tier fighters are more impressive than Grayson's... don't see how anyone could argue otherwise. Grayson isn't Bruce, he doesn't have the credentials or references to support him taking the majority from Punisher. Is Dick more agile and more skilled? Well... he's more agile, but Punisher has dealt with that before, and in an opponent who actually was more skilled as well. Punisher has fought essentially an amalgamation of the best attributes of Grayson and Wayne more than half a dozen times, and while he usually has been out classed in the end, the fights usually last the better part of an issue and he always puts on a hell of a fight. Grayson can't beat Frank in a fight.

Originally posted by Bentley
That said, Frank can get some wins if Grayson is too merciful. But if he fights Punisher as he would Deathstroke, Frank is screwed.

Most of the time Deathstroke beats Dick pretty easily, the rest of the time Dick holds him off briefly, or jack rabbits until Deathstroke decides it's not worth his time and decides to leave... plus outside of his massive advantage in strength and speed, Slade is a pretty abysmal fighter.

Originally posted by BruceSkywalker
yeah this is what people forget about the bat family.. their batsuits are full of kevlar.. all frank will accomplish using his guns would be just wasting bullets.. the batsuit will protect grayson from bullets as well as grayson's agility

Depends. Sometimes their suites can barely hold off gunfire, sometimes, it can tank big explosions.

Originally posted by BruceSkywalker
yeah this is what people forget about the bat family.. their batsuits are full of kevlar.. all frank will accomplish using his guns would be just wasting bullets.. the batsuit will protect grayson from bullets as well as grayson's agility

Interestingly enough I haven't seen it give any added resistance to punches.

Guarantee you Frank has some AP rounds...

Wasn't there an issue where dick faced off against clayface and a couple baddies by himself?

Originally posted by Deadline
Interestingly enough I haven't seen it give any added resistance to punches. That's how they take punches from superhumans.

Originally posted by Mindset
That's how they take punches from superhumans. The suits also have shock/impact resistance in a slugfest Grayson would tank way more punishment than Castle

Originally posted by iceman24567
The suits also have shock/impact resistance in a slugfest Grayson would tank way more punishment than Castle

lmao. Frank's damage soak is off the charts, we are talking about several orders of magnitudes above and beyond Dick on a logarithmic scale.

1. Not sure.
2. Dick.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
lmao. Frank's damage soak is off the charts, we are talking about several orders of magnitudes above and beyond Dick on a logarithmic scale. Thats nice he still isn't tanking more damage than Dick

Originally posted by iceman24567
Thats nice he still isn't tanking more damage than Dick

Maybe you should bing "Punisher"?

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Maybe you should bing "Punisher"? Maybe you should jump off a highrise?

Originally posted by iceman24567
Maybe you should jump off a highrise?

How is that going to help you educate yourself?

It will show him what happens to ignorant people.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
How is that going to help you educate yourself? I don't need educating on Punisher i know enough about him to say Grayson kicks him until he shouts uncle. Grayson in both

Originally posted by iceman24567
I don't need educating on Punisher i know enough about him to say Grayson kicks him until he shouts uncle. Grayson in both

Yes you do. Punisher tanks 1000 foot falls fallowed by being run over by cars and keeps fighting... last month he tanked a point blank grenade blast. Educate yourself.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Yes you do. Punisher tanks 1000 foot falls fallowed by being run over by cars and keeps fighting... last month he tanked a point blank grenade blast. Educate yourself. Grayson bulled rushed Cyborg Superman aswell as took a full on shot from him iirc i guess he's far above Castle i like how you use high end feats and act like Frank can't be put down wanking is wanking is wanking i guess. Anybody less biased have anything to say?

Originally posted by iceman24567
Grayson bulled rushed Cyborg Superman aswell as took a full on shot from him iirc i guess he's far above Castle i like how you use high end feats and act like Frank can't be put down wanking is wanking is wanking i guess. Anybody less biased have anything to say?

Grayson never took a full on shot from Cyborg Superman, if he did, he'd be dead. Streets taking punches from Class 100s are unquantifiable, we don't know how much strength was behind the blow, or how clean it connected, what we do know is that if said character used even 1/10000 of their strength, the street would be a puddle of goo. However, a grenade is a grenade is a grenade, there are no variables that need to be considered. Frank is a sponge... that's who he is, and his damage soak completely and utterly eclipses Dicks. Dude's had his ribs blown clean out of his body by a shot gun and still fought for pages like it was nothing. Read Punisher comics, then come back.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Grayson never took a full on shot from Cyborg Superman, if he did, he'd be dead. Streets taking punches from Class 100s are unquantifiable, we don't know how much strength was behind the blow, or how clean it connected, what we do know is that if said character used even 1/10000 of their strength, the street would be a puddle of goo. However, a grenade is a grenade is a grenade, there are no variables that need to be considered. Frank is a sponge... that's who he is, and his damage soak completely and utterly eclipses Dicks. Dude's had his ribs blown clean out of his body by a shot gun and still fought for pages like it was nothing. Read Punisher comics, then come back. You tell me to read a Punisher comic and you post this?
Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Frank in both scenarios. Punisher's gone the distance in fights with Daredevil half a dozen times and Matt is comfortably better than Dick across the board in virtually every single way. Grayson won't be taking the majority from Castle. Frank is faster? A better fighter? Smarter? Stronger possibly. Damage soak the Bats suit evens it out seems you don't read any comics if Frank is better in "virtually every single way" then again i know how you act when it comes to street levelers from both companies

Originally posted by iceman24567
You tell me to read a Punisher comic and you post this?
Frank is faster? A better fighter? Smarter? Stronger possibly. Damage soak the Bats suit evens it out seems you don't read any comics if Frank is better in "virtually every single way" then again i know how you act when it comes to street levelers from both companies

Which part of "Matt is comfortably better than Dick across the board in virtually every single way," made you think I was talking about Punisher. Matt is Nightwing... if Nightwing was stronger, faster, more skilled, smarter and had super powers, and Frank's held his own against DD half a dozen times in some of the best street level fights in comic history. Dick can't beat Frank Castle.

The Batsuit is barely bullet proof, the damage soak it brings is nearly inconsequential.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Which part of "Matt is comfortably better than Dick across the board in virtually every single way," made you think I was talking about Punisher. Matt is Nightwing... if Nightwing was stronger, faster, more skilled, smarter and had super powers, and Frank's held his own against DD half a dozen times in some of the best street level fights in comic history. Dick can't beat Frank Castle.

The Batsuit is barely bullet proof, the damage soak it brings is nearly inconsequential. So by proxy Frank should beat Dick......nah Grayson wins

Originally posted by iceman24567
So by proxy Frank should beat Dick......nah Grayson wins

He beats Dick because he has experience fighting a much better Dick Grayson.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
He beats Dick because he has experience fighting a much better Dick Grayson. Fighting but not winning? Nice you can stop posting to me anytime now.....

Originally posted by iceman24567
Fighting but not winning? Nice you can stop posting to me anytime now.....

Punisher has beaten Daredevil several times, but most of the fights are stalemates. Hell, Matt has even said the only reason Frank doesn't pepper him with bullets is because he misses him on purpose.

Read Punisher comics.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Punisher has beaten Daredevil several times, but most of the fights are stalemates. Hell, Matt has even said the only reason Frank doesn't pepper him with bullets is because he misses him on purpose.

Read Punisher comics. Looks like you are giving Punisher the benefit of the doubt in a non comics book fight Frank isn't beating Matt or even pepper him with bullets thats just retarded despite the Superman esque wanking Daredevil sent towards Castle even Bullseye has trouble hitting Matt.

Originally posted by iceman24567
Looks like you are giving Punisher the benefit of the doubt in a non comics book fight Frank isn't beating Matt or even pepper him with bullets thats just retarded despite the Superman esque wanking Daredevil sent towards Castle even Bullseye has trouble hitting Matt.

Bullseye rarely comes at DD with automatic weaponry, if he did, he'd sent Matt to the grave. Nightwing is faster and more agile than Frank, but Frank has proven dozens of times that he is more than capable of dealing with and nullifying those advantages in a fight, and he has done so against characters who are even better in those areas that Grayson is. Dick simply doesn't have want it takes to beat Frank the majority of the time. He is a Winter Soldier or Black Widow threat, Punisher is in a different weight class, it would take the real Batman to take him down.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Bullseye rarely comes at DD with automatic weaponry, if he did, he'd sent Matt to the grave. Nightwing is faster and more agile than Frank, but Frank has proven dozens of times that he is more than capable of dealing with and nullifying those advantages in a fight, and he has done so against characters who are even better in those areas that Grayson is. Dick simply doesn't have want it takes to beat Frank the majority of the time. He is a Winter Soldier or Black Widow threat, Punisher is in a different weight class, it would take the real Batman to take him down. I disagree unless they are a short distance apart and in a open field Matt isn't getting peppered by Castle

what is Franks best feat without using weapons ?

Originally posted by iceman24567
I disagree unless they are a short distance apart and in a open field Matt isn't getting peppered by Castle

Castle can quick draw an entire room of armed thugs with head shots before they can get a shot off, and shoot the web slingers of Spider-man's wrists. If he wants to shoot someone, they get shot.

Dick in both. Wait, wait, that sounded wrong.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Castle can quick draw an entire room of armed thugs with head shots before they can get a shot off, and shoot the web slingers of Spider-man's wrists. If he wants to shoot someone, they get shot. Armed Thugs though? Really?

Originally posted by Prep-Man
Dick in both. Wait, wait, that sounded wrong.

Don't worry, it didn't just sound wrong, it was wrong period.

srank trying to act like he doesn't love Dick.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
lmao. Frank's damage soak is off the charts, we are talking about several orders of magnitudes above and beyond Dick on a logarithmic scale. I agree.

But Dick will win nonetheless.

Srank, have you ever picked the DC character when it's Marvel vs DC?

Originally posted by marwash22
Srank, have you ever picked the DC character when it's Marvel vs DC?

Yes, but only in fights they would actually win, which I'm sure sounds strange to you.

Originally posted by marwash22
Srank, have you ever picked the DC character when it's Marvel vs DC? He'll maybe pick Karate Kid over Black Widow.

Maybe.

As long as it's Pre-Crisis Karate Kid and not the threeboot version.

I mean, Black Widow did good against Elektra, so you know she's better than everybody in the present DCU.

Marvels streets are typically better than DCs. Which should be obviously to anyone who has any sort of experience reading comics from both companies, it is as clear cut as the fact that DC's big guns are operating on a much higher level of speed than the Marvel equivalents.

Or any other category, IMO. Not just speed, but I think DC's streets can hang with Marvel's overall. I see no overall superiority, and I used to mainly just read Marvel. So no biased here. Unless we're talking about Wildstorm.

Grifter beats any street not named Deadpool or IF.

He just stalemates them.

Originally posted by Mindset
Grifter beats any street not named Deadpool or IF.

He just stalemates them.



Wildstorm Super Soldiers > Marvels, IMO.

I think I still have my Grifter action figure from when they had a cartoon.

Originally posted by Prep-Man
Or any other category, IMO. Not just speed, but I think DC's streets can hang with Marvel's overall. I see no overall superiority, and I used to mainly just read Marvel. So no biased here. Unless we're talking about Wildstorm.

Strength and durability is more or less the same across both companies, but that is besides the point. In DC the street skill level cap is cut off at slightly above Batman, the Marvel equivalent would be a skill cap at slightly above Daredevil... and that simple isn't the case. Marvel has character's that operate above those levels (some well, well, WELL beyond) because they simply have more diverse and expansive street level pantheon, and they are happy to let a variety of character's have some spot light, while DC has everything anchored firmly to the Batman franchise. Shiva or Dragon are never going to get a Iron Fist, or even a Shang-Chi or Electra power boost because it would make them too much for Batman. It's the same reason Marvel's big guns don't have FTL combat speed because it would make them too much for the Hulk. It's not a complicated situation, the truth and the rationale behind it is pretty straight forward... sadly Batman fanboys can't be objective or impartial.

Wildstorm is just awesome. RIP

I agree with your second statement, most of DC martial artists have no business hanging with guys like IF.

Frank ain't nearly one of those exceptions.

Originally posted by Bentley
I agree with your second statement, most of DC martial artists have no business hanging with guys like IF.

Frank ain't nearly one of those exceptions.

Frank has spent his career fighting the best Marvel has to offer. He has wins over Cap, Wolverine and Daredevil, alternatively Dick as been stomped by virtually any martial artist worth their own body weight. Punisher has more than half a dozen close fights with Daredevil under his belts, and DD is for all intensive purposes a faster and more agile Batman analog... but Frank can't beat Batman's protege? A protege that Batman can effortlessly tool? You must not think very much of Frank Castle.

You're forgetting all the Karate Kid's that existed. Most of those can hang with Shang or Iron Fist, IMO.

I didn't know you felt that way. Grail is the most awesome Chi user in comics.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Frank has spent his career fighting the best Marvel has to offer. He has wins over Cap, Wolverine and Daredevil, alternatively Dick as been stomped by virtually any martial artist worth their own body weight. Punisher has more than half a dozen close fights with Daredevil under his belts, and DD is for all intensive purposes a faster and more agile Batman analog... but Frank can't beat Batman's protege? A protege that Batman can effortlessly tool? You must not think very much of Frank Castle.

He has wins over captain America? I refuse to believe it unless I see it with my own eyes. Last I saw during civil war frank wasn't even willing to fight steve Rogers!

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
He has wins over Cap, Wolverine and Daredevil When has he beaten them w/o gear?

And NW has better gear than them.

Originally posted by rotiart
He has wins over captain America? I refuse to believe it unless I see it with my own eyes. Last I saw during civil war frank wasn't even willing to fight steve Rogers!

Frank has a single win over Cap, but you are correct that is the general depiction of the two. Frank idolizes Cap more than Spider-man, he doesn't want to fight him in any capacity. I remember once in the 90s he thought to himself something like "Either start shooting or just surrender, you can't beat him in a fight." But that's the case for virtually every human street. Frank's even tanked a shield ricochet off his temple and kept fighting.

DC Streets are on par with Marvels... most of them fight metas regularly and sucessfully...

Dick

Originally posted by Batman-Prime
DC Streets are on par with Marvels... most of them fight metas regularly and sucessfully...

Fighting metas is a street level stable, they all do it successfully. By that logic Colleen Wing = Batman.

marvel has better super soldier, while dc has better and just as skilled streets. cooler ones as well.

Originally posted by Prep-Man
marvel has better super soldier, while dc has better and just as skilled streets. cooler ones as well. ... ... Marvel has the single most powerful "Street" level character in the comic multivese. Do you deny Squirrel Girl!

Originally posted by Uriel005
... ... Marvel has the single most powerful "Street" level character in the comic multivese. Do you deny Squirrel Girl!

SG is an abstract...

Originally posted by Uriel005 ... ... Marvel has the single most powerful "Street" level character in the comic multivese. Do you deny Squirrel Girl!

sq is toaa in disguise. she doesnt count.

Originally posted by Prep-Man
sq is toaa in disguise. she doesnt count. stop spoiling it for people...

Originally posted by Prep-Man
marvel has better super soldier, while dc has better and just as skilled streets. cooler ones as well.

Marvel has better super soldiers, more skilled MAs, and cooler ones as well. Just better streets across the board.

i guess well have to agree to disagree...again.

Or srank is just wrong... again. mmm

Originally posted by -Pr-
Or srank is just wrong... again. mmm That sounds about right.

Originally posted by -Pr-
Or srank is just wrong... again. mmm

Seems very unlikely.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Seems very unlikely.

Originally posted by -Pr-
Or srank is just wrong... again. mmm

Originally posted by Mindset
That sounds about right.

No, I'm pretty sure I'm right... as usual.

The difference in opinion seems to stem from the fact unlike everyone else posting in this thread, I know more about Nightwing than just the fact he has a Batsymbol on his chest.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
No, I'm pretty sure I'm right... as usual.

The difference in opinion seems to stem from the fact unlike everyone else posting in this thread, I know more about Nightwing than just the fact he has a Batsymbol on his chest.

That statement in itself, being incorrect, just shows how much knowledge you lack. mmm

Originally posted by -Pr-
That statement in itself, being incorrect, just shows how much knowledge you lack. mmm

Nope, I'm right again. I checked, www.ask8ball.net said so. I'm right, confirmed.

/End Thread

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Nope, I'm right again. I checked, www.ask8ball.net said so. I'm right, confirmed.

/End Thread

It's like you're not even trying anymore...

Originally posted by -Pr-
It's like you're not even trying anymore...

How rude!

srank has indeed lost it these days. I hope and pray for a speedy recovery.

You can still wear your Batman underoos even if you admit what you know deep down in your heart or hearts to be true. I'm right. Grant Morrison isn't going to come to your house with Geoff Johns and take your Batman bed sheets, Batman x Robin fanfics, and honorary JLA membership card just because you were objective and rational in one thread. It's okay. Admit I'm right. Search your feelings, you know it to be true

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Marvel has better super soldiers, more skilled MAs, and cooler ones as well. Just better streets across the board.
facepalm
Originally posted by -Pr-
It's like you're not even trying anymore

Castle's damage soak is pretty ridiculous all things considered.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
You can still wear your Batman underoos even if you admit what you know deep down in your heart or hearts to be true. I'm right. Grant Morrison isn't going to come to your house with Geoff Johns and take your Batman bed sheets, Batman x Robin fanfics, and honorary JLA membership card just because you were objective and rational in one thread. It's okay. Admit I'm right. Search your feelings, you know it to be true You silly rabbit

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Castle's damage soak is pretty ridiculous all things considered.
I haven't read the whole thread...


...has anyone made a "Frank is good at taking Dick" joke yet?

In the past I probably would have given this to Frank. But times have changed and Dick has proven himself very formidable. As I think Grayson will win.

Frank puts up a hell of a match because of his incredible damage soak but Dicks speed/agility is pretty damn ridiculous in its own right.

So we are all, everyone of us, in agreement that Frank loses.

Originally posted by Mindset
So we are all, everyone of us, in agreement that Frank loses.

Well this is KMC after all. Frank's a chump here who can't beat anyone, so that would seem to fit the bill.

Frank can best Wolverine.

So I disagree.

Sweet.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
I haven't read the whole thread...


...has anyone made a "Frank is good at taking Dick" joke yet? Originally posted by marwash22
2. Frank gets Dicked. flirt

He can also beat Sabretooth.

Cool.

Honestly, without gear, I think Frank can win.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Honestly, without gear, I think Frank can win.

That's because he can, and if the logo on his chest was a bat and not a skull that would the majority opinion in this tread.

Srank mad.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
That's because he can, and if the logo on his chest was a bat and not a skull that would the majority opinion in this tread.

I don't know about all that, but to me, I think because the fight is rather inclosed, it gives Frank a pretty significant advantage over someone who is used to vast mobility and utilizing his agility.

Originally posted by Mindset
Srank mad.

I'd love to vote for Nightwing but I'm not drunk enough for my reason and rational though to be impaired yet. Maybe once the weekend comes I can get inebriated enough to post "lulz Batman totes wins for realz, BATKICK!!! duh!" but until the weekend I'm still sane.

of course frank can win, just not the majority. i dont think anyone said it was a clean sweep.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
I'd love to vote for Nightwing but I'm not drunk enough for my reason and rational though to be impaired yet. Maybe once the weekend comes I can get inebriated enough to post "lulz Batman totes wins for realz, BATKICK!!! duh!" but until the weekend I'm still sane. Calm down.

Without gear/guns, what are we basing Dick defeating Frank off of out of curiosity? Not saying it's wrong, but I'm curious.

Originally posted by Prep-Man
of course frank can win, just not the majority. i dont think anyone said it was a clean sweep.

Nope, don't be modest, we all know Frank can't even get one win. Frank can't win the majority against anyone. How is he such a shmuck even alive? Seriously how does such a hapless loser have wins over Deadpool, Wolverine, Captain America, Daredevil and virtually everyone one he's ever fought? Who cares! I call bs. What do Frank's bs wins even matter? They don't! Nightwing gets his ass beat effortlessly by Bane, Batman and Shiva... and that's more than enough to say he beats Punisher, cuz Punisher never even fought Shiva. Duh. Nightwing wins, he can do a back flip bro! Probably even two or three! Serious. A full on back flip, not even joking. Plus, you heard he knows Batman? Legit. dur

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
I'd love to vote for Nightwing but I'm not drunk enough for my reason and rational though to be impaired yet. Maybe once the weekend comes I can get inebriated enough to post "lulz Batman totes wins for realz, BATKICK!!! duh!" but until the weekend I'm still sane.

I often wonder how far you're going to go before your hate drives you to have some sort of aneurysm.

And i mean that in a nice way.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Nope, don't be modest, we all know Frank can't even get one win. Frank can't win the majority against anyone. How is he such a shmuck even alive? Seriously how does such a hapless loser have wins over Deadpool, Wolverine, Captain America, Daredevil and virtually everyone one he's ever fought? Who cares! I call bs. What do Frank's bs wins even matter? They don't! Nightwing gets his ass beat effortlessly by Bane, Batman and Shiva... and that's more than enough to say he beats Punisher, cuz Punisher never even fought Shiva. Duh. Nightwing wins, he can do a back flip bro! Probably even two or three! Serious. A full on back flip, not even joking. Plus, you heard he knows Batman? Legit. dur http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a114/mdoran13/u-mad.jpg

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Nope, don't be modest, we all know Frank can't even get one win. Frank can't win the majority against anyone. How is he such a shmuck even alive? Seriously how does such a hapless loser have wins over Deadpool, Wolverine, Captain America, Daredevil and virtually everyone one he's ever fought? Who cares! I call bs. What do Frank's bs wins even matter? They don't! Nightwing gets his ass beat effortlessly by Bane, Batman and Shiva... and that's more than enough to say he beats Punisher, cuz Punisher never even fought Shiva. Duh. Nightwing wins, he can do a back flip bro! Probably even two or three! Serious. A full on back flip, not even joking. Plus, you heard he knows Batman? Legit. dur http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1g_6TmOyXAM

Originally posted by -Pr-
I often wonder how far you're going to go before your hate drives you to have some sort of aneurysm.

And i mean that in a nice way.

Dude, I'm just about as calm as person could be. I'm so mellow, I make Mellow Yellow look like Mountain Dew. Don't read my posts like the rage filled rant of IGN's Greg Miller, read them like they were delivered by Mitch Hedberg... only slightly more sober.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Dude, I'm just about as calm as person could be. I'm so mellow, I make Mellow Yellow look like Mountain Dew. Don't read my posts like the rage filled rant of IGN's Greg Miller, read them like they were delivered by Mitch Hedberg.

I don't know who either of those are.

Originally posted by -Pr-
I don't know who either of those are.

2491LucLa1g

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Dude, I'm just about as calm as person could be. I'm so mellow, I make Mellow Yellow look like Mountain Dew. Don't read my posts like the rage filled rant of IGN's Greg Miller, read them like they were delivered by Mitch Hedberg... only slightly more sober. You need to phucking calm down, bro!

Originally posted by Mindset
You need to phucking calm down, bro!

For real bro?

For realsies, bro.

Originally posted by Mindset
For realsies, bro.

You serial right now, bro?

im imagining the guy that hosts mad money.

I just looked back and thinking about the arena Frank actually has a huge advantage in 2 due to stips. They're in a damn wrestling ring with cage. Dicks mobility is going to suffer and he's basically going to be forced to engage in a brawl with Frank if Frank fights smart and backs into a corner and makes Dick come to him which in forum I think he would. If he does that then Grayson is going to have to get in closer than he would like to Punisher and if Frank gets his hands on him then it's basically over.

you're talking like Grayson is some low level street goon who isn't a top tier martial artist.

Originally posted by marwash22
you're talking like Grayson is some low level street goon who isn't a top tier martial artist. No I just don't think he has the physical capability to take Frank under the conditions of this fight. It's an enclosed space and Frank can back himself into a wall and remove a lot of Grayson's mobility advantage. Frank has greater raw strength than Grayson and under the conditions can force Grayson to play more to his strengths and force him in close.

Also conversely Frank is no joke in the martial arts field either. I don't think he has the raw skill of someone like Dick or Bruce but he has enough to put Dick down under these conditions. If it was an open ring I'd say that Grayson would take the fist fight.

Originally posted by Daredevil1

Frank puts up a hell of a match because of his incredible damage soak but Dicks speed/agility is pretty damn ridiculous in its own right.

So he faster than Daredevil, Deadpool, Kraven II and Daken, guys who are officially superhuman. Punisher pulled off some crazy accurate feat against Spiderman while being severly sleep deprived and badly beaten. Punisher has got some impressive speed feats as well, hes got at least one comparable to Batgirl if not better.

Whats Grayson done that makes him so good now?


Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Frank has a single win over Cap, but you are correct that is the general depiction of the two. Frank idolizes Cap more than Spider-man, he doesn't want to fight him in any capacity. I remember once in the 90s he thought to himself something like "Either start shooting or just surrender, you can't beat him in a fight." But that's the case for virtually every human street. Frank's even tanked a shield ricochet off his temple and kept fighting.

I don't remember that. Anyway that was Punisher under Fraction, Punisher has actually shot Cap twice so you wonder why Fraction suddenly decided to make Frank act like that.

Grayson has done well evading Slade many times. I'm pretty sure he can do the same to Punisher. I didn't read the op, but if he is under these circumstances, Punisher has a much better chance in closed quarters. If it's a run in the mil fight, Grayson would get a majority.

Originally posted by Prep-Man
Grayson has done well evading Slade many times. I'm pretty sure he can do the same to Punisher. I didn't read the op, but if he is under these circumstances, Punisher has a much better chance in closed quarters. If it's a run in the mil fight, Grayson would get a majority.

Thats a shame because Punisher is better at using guns than DS. Punisher has no trouble punching and shooting people faster than NW. He's got no advantage.

Originally posted by Deadline
Thats a shame because Punisher is better at using guns than DS. Punisher has no trouble punching and shooting people faster than NW. He's got no advantage.
Heh.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
Heh.

Well he might have one but I haven't seen any proof. You're the smartest man alive lets see some.

Originally posted by Deadline
Well he might have one but I haven't seen any proof. You're the smartest man alive lets see some.
U just a little mad?

Originally posted by Omega Vision
U just a little mad?

Yea sure, why not.

heart says dickie, but brain says likely frank..... i think it's a lot closer than srank does though and dick could take some.

Dick Grayson, and hes Batman now btw not Nightwing

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Frank has spent his career fighting the best Marvel has to offer. He has wins over Cap, Wolverine and Daredevil, alternatively Dick as been stomped by virtually any martial artist worth their own body weight. Punisher has more than half a dozen close fights with Daredevil under his belts, and DD is for all intensive purposes a faster and more agile Batman analog... but Frank can't beat Batman's protege? A protege that Batman can effortlessly tool? You must not think very much of Frank Castle. Name the clear purely H2H wins he has over Cap & Wolverine.