Akuma vs. Shao Kahn

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quanchi112
To the death who wins ?

MooCowofJustice
Am I wrong in saying this is Akuma's win? I don't think so. But I don't really care to know about either. Though, I figure if Shao Khan was worthy of any note at all, I'd have seen some other successful threads with him in them by now.

Zack Fair
He did beat the living shit out of Raiden in the beginning of MK9.

NemeBro
Akuma punches Shao Kahn's torso off of his legs, arms, and neck.

Esomark
Akuma says "Boo!" and Kahn runs off crying.

Zack Fair
Nah. Shao Kahn will insult Akuma until Akuma goes island-busting punch on his ass.

quanchi112
Originally posted by NemeBro
Akuma punches Shao Kahn's torso off of his legs, arms, and neck. Based off of what ?

NemeBro
Besides Akuma destroying an island/a mountain with a punch and Shao Kahn never showing durability that high?

Not much.

quanchi112
Originally posted by NemeBro
Besides Akuma destroying an island/a mountain with a punch and Shao Kahn never showing durability that high?

Not much. Did Akuma destroy for his ending in a street fighter game ?

But besides that you think ken and ryu's bodies are as durable as islands. snickers.

NemeBro
Originally posted by quanchi112
Did Akuma destroy for his ending in a street fighter game ?

But besides that you think ken and ryu's bodies are as durable as islands. snickers. The canon endings, yes. Actually, IIRC, all of Akuma's endings are canon.

Harharhar Akuma has not to my knowledge ever fought Ken, and he has never gone all out against Ryu. Not that he went all-out when he destroyed the island either. smile Keep in mind this was also a younger, weaker Akuma.

Your butthurt is showing.

RE: Blaxican
Akuma wins with ease.

Darkstorm Zero
*Shakes head at how sadly onesided this is*

Meioh_Hades
Shao Kahn is quite a badass villain for MK, but he didn't showed any feat with the scale of Gouki's powers.

And about Ryu's body durable as an island... I think that with the island busting punch Gouki used more power than in the fight against Ryu, however I'm pretty sure that Ryu had to tank at least one punch in the fight against Gouki, and that punch was not exactly a caress.

Since we're talking about a younger-weaker Gouki and a Ryu that was almost at the beginning of his journey, I think that the stronger and wiser SF4 Ryu just CAN tank an island busting punch.

Gameplay does not show it well, but top tiers of SF universe are really THAT powerful.

Tha C-Master
I said this before, and I'll say it again. Just because a game is more violent/darker doesn't mean the characters are more powerful. MK is cool, bu the characters simply don't do anything on that scale, fatalities be damned.

It's like comparing Diablo to BG. Diablo had more violence and gore, sure. But the characters weren't freezing time or anything on that scale.

Edit: and Meioh, that's what gameplay and story segregation is all about. Darkstalkers are far more powerful and you wouldn't guess it looking at the game.

MK has the opposite effect, they look more powerful in gameplay than what they do in canon.

BloodRain
When people say it wasn't his full power does it mean he didn't go full Shin power or that he didn't use full base power? 'Cause he was all glowing before he did it. Isnt that full 'normal' Akuma?

Phanteros
Akuma punches Shao into a bloody mist cloud.

quanchi112
Originally posted by NemeBro
The canon endings, yes. Actually, IIRC, all of Akuma's endings are canon.

Harharhar Akuma has not to my knowledge ever fought Ken, and he has never gone all out against Ryu. Not that he went all-out when he destroyed the island either. smile Keep in mind this was also a younger, weaker Akuma.

Your butthurt is showing. Proof the ending is canon ?

So street fighter sets up a game where a certain character can destroy an island but the portrayal makes it clear that every character you fight against can take island shattering punches since you can't oneshot anyone in the game. That's your stance.

How does Akuma stop him from just stealing his soul ? Originally posted by RE: Blaxican
Akuma wins with ease. Screw his consistent portrayal right.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
I said this before, and I'll say it again. Just because a game is more violent/darker doesn't mean the characters are more powerful. MK is cool, bu the characters simply don't do anything on that scale, fatalities be damned.

It's like comparing Diablo to BG. Diablo had more violence and gore, sure. But the characters weren't freezing time or anything on that scale.

Edit: and Meioh, that's what gameplay and story segregation is all about. Darkstalkers are far more powerful and you wouldn't guess it looking at the game.

MK has the opposite effect, they look more powerful in gameplay than what they do in canon. You habven't even played the latest mk so you have no idea. You admitted you haven't played a fight game in quite some time so I would also further guess you didn't play armageddon and maybe even perhaps deception.

Ripping guys arms off shows insane strength but I guess in street fighter a certain ending overrides all common sense and their portrayals over the course of every single game, right ?

BloodRain
Yeah screw it. How can they consider kicking a submarine from a tench to the surface, sinking an island with a punch, destroying a forest with an explosion and shattering Uluru with a strike as consistent destructive feats? Its not like he's portrayed to have this massive strength in any way... damn fanboys /shakes fist/

Tha C-Master
Originally posted by quanchi112
Proof the ending is canon ?

So street fighter sets up a game where a certain character can destroy an island but the portrayal makes it clear that every character you fight against can take island shattering punches since you can't oneshot anyone in the game. That's your stance.

How does Akuma stop him from just stealing his soul ? Screw his consistent portrayal right.

You habven't even played the latest mk so you have no idea. You admitted you haven't played a fight game in quite some time so I would also further guess you didn't play armageddon and maybe even perhaps deception.

Ripping guys arms off shows insane strength but I guess in street fighter a certain ending overrides all common sense and their portrayals over the course of every single game, right ? I have played the latest now, and I've seen the entire story mode, from Johnny Cage all the way into the end, and I saw the fatality where he rips you in half, and I saw the fatality with the hammer. I've been playing video games for decades, and I own MK Deception, Armageddon wasn't that great, and MK vs DC wasn't either.

Then there was Sindel...
I'm familiar with Onaga and the Kamidogu, and Zombie Liu Kang, etc etc. I haven't even spent as much time on SF4 either.

I said I haven't played current games as much, I do play classic games a bit more often (not as much as I'm busier and I don't have the interest). That also doesn't mean I don't know anything about video games all of the sudden. I actually know far more than most. I've been playing MK and SF for 2 decades now, I'm well aware of their history, nice try. wink

None of this is relevant as I've started playing again since I preordered Duke Nukem Forever. Hail to The King Baby!!!

Anyways, Akuma is far more powerful. Ripping Islands and meteors not even at full power beats ripping someone in half, that's not even 1% of the same amount of power. Shao Kahn is powerful. Just out of his league. Gameplay and Story Segregation and all that. Just like Pokemon.

quanchi112
Originally posted by Tha C-Master
I have played the latest now, and I've seen the entire story mode, from Johnny Cage all the way into the end, and I saw the fatality where he rips you in half, and I saw the fatality with the hammer. I've been playing video games for decades, and I own MK Deception, Armageddon wasn't that great, and MK vs DC wasn't either.

Then there was Sindel...
I'm familiar with Onaga and the Kamidogu, and Zombie Liu Kang, etc etc. I haven't even spent as much time on SF4 either.

I said I haven't played current games as much, I do play classic games a bit more often (not as much as I'm busier and I don't have the interest). That also doesn't mean I don't know anything about video games all of the sudden. I actually know far more than most. I've been playing MK and SF for 2 decades now, I'm well aware of their history, nice try. wink

None of this is relevant as I've started playing again since I preordered Duke Nukem Forever. Hail to The King Baby!!!

Anyways, Akuma is far more powerful. Ripping Islands and meteors not even at full power beats ripping someone in half, that's not even 1% of the same amount of power. Shao Kahn is powerful. Just out of his league. Gameplay and Story Segregation and all that. Just like Pokemon. Even if you believe all of this which is false since Ken, dhalsim, etc. aren't anywhere near more durable than an island how does Akuma stop Shao Kahn from taking his soul "

I mean since you played the game all the way through you shoul dbe well aware of this.
Originally posted by BloodRain
Yeah screw it. How can they consider kicking a submarine from a tench to the surface, sinking an island with a punch, destroying a forest with an explosion and shattering Uluru with a strike as consistent destructive feats? Its not like he's portrayed to have this massive strength in any way... damn fanboys /shakes fist/ Yep, every street fighter character is more durable than an island Dhalsim included. Good one.

Meioh_Hades
MK 2011 story mode give us two feats from chars: Shang Tsung destroying an helicopter with one fireball, and Scorpion burning a man to ash.

However canon endings from Street Fighter show us far greater feats.

Some endings in Street Fighter DON'T override any common sense. In SF verse top fighters can simply be THAT powerful, due to training or technology (for chars like Juri and Seth).

I like both Street Fighters and Mortal Kombat, but I've no problem saying that looking at feats and storyline, MK top fighters aren't a match for top SF ones.

BloodRain
Keep in mind how Akuma never goes all out on opponents.

quanchi112
Originally posted by Meioh_Hades
MK 2011 story mode give us two feats from chars: Shang Tsung destroying an helicopter with one fireball, and Scorpion burning a man to ash.

However canon endings from Street Fighter show us far greater feats.

Some endings in Street Fighter DON'T override any common sense. In SF verse top fighters can simply be THAT powerful, due to training or technology (for chars like Juri and Seth).

I like both Street Fighters and Mortal Kombat, but I've no problem saying that looking at feats and storyline, MK top fighters aren't a match for top SF ones. You forgot about shao kahn easily stealing someone's soul and ermac easily destroying both of Jax's arms. With the powers the mk fighters bring to bear it's no wonder they easily dominate the best street fighter has to offer.

So destroying an island means Dhalsim's durability is that of an island ?

Meioh_Hades
Not Dhalsim's durability, since canonwise he never fought Gouki.

I'm talking about Ryu's durability, since is Ryu who fought Gouki in SF Alpha 2.

And about the "soul stealing - easy victory" you forget that in SF verse there's a thing called "Shun Goku Satsu", wich attacks and destroys both the body and the souls. And chars with an high spiritual power, like Gen and Gouken, managed to survive the attack. Since even Gouki is very strong, spiritual - wise, he can resist a soul stealing magic with ease.

And seriously... Strong animals like bears or gorillas can rip a man arm, but no being on Earth has the physical strenght to destroy an island.

Island busting >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> arm ripping.

With the powers the SF top fighters bring to bear it's no wonder they easily dominate the best Mortal Kombat has to offer.

BloodRain
Boulder lifting > arm ripping.

Darkstorm Zero
Originally posted by quanchi112
Proof the ending is canon ?

The very fact that thet event is required to move the plot forward.

Originally posted by quanchi112
How does Akuma stop him from just stealing his soul ? Screw his consistent portrayal right.

Because we all know Kahn can just pluck a fighters soul out of thin air at any time, reguardless of wether or not he actually has to fight said opponent first, amirite?

here's a question then, when has Shao Kahn actually simply plucket the sul of a fighter without fighting them first?

quanchi112
Originally posted by Meioh_Hades
Not Dhalsim's durability, since canonwise he never fought Gouki.

I'm talking about Ryu's durability, since is Ryu who fought Gouki in SF Alpha 2.

And about the "soul stealing - easy victory" you forget that in SF verse there's a thing called "Shun Goku Satsu", wich attacks and destroys both the body and the souls. And chars with an high spiritual power, like Gen and Gouken, managed to survive the attack. Since even Gouki is very strong, spiritual - wise, he can resist a soul stealing magic with ease.

And seriously... Strong animals like bears or gorillas can rip a man arm, but no being on Earth has the physical strenght to destroy an island.

Island busting >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> arm ripping.

With the powers the SF top fighters bring to bear it's no wonder they easily dominate the best Mortal Kombat has to offer. The destroying an island thing doesn't match up with how he is portrayed in the game. I don't care if he hasn't canonically met up with Dhalsim the game makes it clear all of these fighters can hurt or be hurt by each other. A video where an amped sindel destroys the mk fighters doesn't mean she can't be hurt in the game by any it just means she is pretty skilled and pretty powerful.

The street fighter characters can't even kill each other yet somehow they kill mk fighters who have always had the power to kill an dtear people limb from limb consistently. Always.

Best you can hope for is a ko, lol. Shao Kahn steals akuma's soul or rips him in half. Take your pick.

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
The very fact that thet event is required to move the plot forward.



Because we all know Kahn can just pluck a fighters soul out of thin air at any time, reguardless of wether or not he actually has to fight said opponent first, amirite?

here's a question then, when has Shao Kahn actually simply plucket the sul of a fighter without fighting them first? So there's no proof it's canon because if we take all endings as legit mk still takes this hands down due to collateral damage.

It's his power and we see him do it so by the island destroying logic it most certainly counts. LOL. You thinking by the same logic only akuma's feats count.

In mk 9. Ermac can also destroy people's arms by tk. Mk's fighters are just too powerful, too strong, and consistently shown or portrayed with strength killing power while street fighter is just capable of koing a guy.

NemeBro
Originally posted by quanchi112
Proof the ending is canon ?

So street fighter sets up a game where a certain character can destroy an island but the portrayal makes it clear that every character you fight against can take island shattering punches since you can't oneshot anyone in the game. That's your stance.

How does Akuma stop him from just stealing his soul ?

Screw his consistent portrayal right.

Ripping guys arms off shows insane strength but I guess in street fighter a certain ending overrides all common sense and their portrayals over the course of every single game, right ? 1. Well it being mentioned later in the series for one. Akuma's endings do not clash with any other ending, they are stand-alone, and are representative of the character's abilities.

2. By your logic Dan is capable of beating Akuma. He is not. Gameplay and story segregation. Akuma has only had any kind of trouble with Oro and Gouken, both god-tier in SF. Oro at one point in SFIII effortlessly one-shots Ryu IIRC.

3. Gouki's soul is powerful, the way the Shun Goku no Satsu works is it destroys both the user and the victim's souls, essentially. Akuma's soul is so powerful it cannot be touched by it.

4. Well let's see, consistently he has been portrayed as being easily one of the strongest characters in the series, only Oro, Gouken, Gill, and Shin Bison being at or near his level. He consistently has good feats, destroying islands, splitting mountains, kicking sunken ships in half while simultaneously destroying a submarine with the shockwave and jumping from the bottom of an ocean trench to the surface in a few seconds, fighting Gouken inside a volcano, vaporising a forest with a burst of Ki, and when fighting Gouken leveling mountains with barrages of Hadoukens, they themselves were not injured much, if at all. So consistent portrayal says he is very strong.

5. In almost all of Gouki's endings he does something like what I named. And he consistently cannot be challenged at all by the rest of the cast.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Even if you believe all of this which is false since Ken, dhalsim, etc. aren't anywhere near more durable than an island how does Akuma stop Shao Kahn from taking his soul "

I mean since you played the game all the way through you shoul dbe well aware of this.
Yep, every street fighter character is more durable than an island Dhalsim included. Good one. 1. Neither have ever fought Akuma, get some cream for that butthurt man, God. Already explained why soul-taking will not work.

2. Why are you talking about Dhalsim like he is weak, first of all? He is one of the stronger characters in the series, at or above Ryu in fact. Though nowhere near as strong as Gouki, who has shown to be consistently much stronger than Ryu while Gouki is holding back... In base form. He has two forms beyond even that, the only feat Shin Akuma has is destroying a meteor.

Originally posted by quanchi112
You forgot about shao kahn easily stealing someone's soul and ermac easily destroying both of Jax's arms. With the powers the mk fighters bring to bear it's no wonder they easily dominate the best street fighter has to offer.

So destroying an island means Dhalsim's durability is that of an island ? 1. But he cannot steal Akuma's. Destroying Jax's arms? WOW GAI NO WAY only Charlie has better feats than that, cutting a cliff in half with a Flash Kick. Charlie, though fairly strong, does not begin to compare to the top dogs of Street Fighter. Are you trolling? Because citing feats like those and then saying they enable them to easily defeat the best of SF, mostly talking about Ermac, makes you either a troll, or just an idiot. Which is it, Quanny ol' boy?

2. Dhalsim has never been punched by Akuma. Get that through your head babe.

Originally posted by quanchi112
The destroying an island thing doesn't match up with how he is portrayed in the game. I don't care if he hasn't canonically met up with Dhalsim the game makes it clear all of these fighters can hurt or be hurt by each other. A video where an amped sindel destroys the mk fighters doesn't mean she can't be hurt in the game by any it just means she is pretty skilled and pretty powerful.

The street fighter characters can't even kill each other yet somehow they kill mk fighters who have always had the power to kill an dtear people limb from limb consistently. Always.

Best you can hope for is a ko, lol. Shao Kahn steals akuma's soul or rips him in half. Take your pick.

So there's no proof it's canon because if we take all endings as legit mk still takes this hands down due to collateral damage.

It's his power and we see him do it so by the island destroying logic it most certainly counts. LOL. You thinking by the same logic only akuma's feats count.

In mk 9. Ermac can also destroy people's arms by tk. Mk's fighters are just too powerful, too strong, and consistently shown or portrayed with strength killing power while street fighter is just capable of koing a guy. 1. Your butthurt man, it is growing, you need to remedy it quickly. "I don't care if he hasn't canonically met up with Dhalsim" No. Stop right there. That exposes you as a biased fool of the worst kind, canonically, Dhalsim has never met Akuma. Gameplay mechanics, like Dan being able to conceivably pose a threat to Akuma or Bison, are not valid. And you are right, that does not mean she cannot be hurt by them... Because the feat you just described is not a durability feat. However, it DOES mean she can beat all the fighters she beat, since she, you know, did.

2. ... Uhuh. Only Akuma HAS killed people, he killed his master Goutetsu, he killed Bison and Gill, one-shotting them. IIRC at some point he kills Adon. Ryu CHOOSES not to kill people, most of the fighters CHOOSE not to kill people. Part of Balrog's backstory is killing a boxer in the ring. They CAN kill people, some of them just choose not to. Are you implying the Street Fighter characters are actually incapable of killing people? Are you saying that Ryu, with his ability to train by holding up huge boulders, stated IIRC to be as heavy as a tank, would be unable to physically kill a human being? But most importantly Quan, are you an idiot?

3. Akuma. Has. Killed. People. Stop using gameplay mechanics. Stop being butthurt Quan. Your butthurt is showing.

4. Collateral damage?

5. Either stop trolling, or stop exposing decent people on the internet to your stupidity. Get over yourself.

Phanteros
http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/7/73957/1678473-akuma_super.jpg
and this
zmXxpl6oSNI

Until I see Shao doing this or a Island sinking attack he loses, not to mention Akuma has a ability to send his opponent's soul to hell.

quanchi112
Originally posted by NemeBro
1. Well it being mentioned later in the series for one. Akuma's endings do not clash with any other ending, they are stand-alone, and are representative of the character's abilities.

2. By your logic Dan is capable of beating Akuma. He is not. Gameplay and story segregation. Akuma has only had any kind of trouble with Oro and Gouken, both god-tier in SF. Oro at one point in SFIII effortlessly one-shots Ryu IIRC.

3. Gouki's soul is powerful, the way the Shun Goku no Satsu works is it destroys both the user and the victim's souls, essentially. Akuma's soul is so powerful it cannot be touched by it.

4. Well let's see, consistently he has been portrayed as being easily one of the strongest characters in the series, only Oro, Gouken, Gill, and Shin Bison being at or near his level. He consistently has good feats, destroying islands, splitting mountains, kicking sunken ships in half while simultaneously destroying a submarine with the shockwave and jumping from the bottom of an ocean trench to the surface in a few seconds, fighting Gouken inside a volcano, vaporising a forest with a burst of Ki, and when fighting Gouken leveling mountains with barrages of Hadoukens, they themselves were not injured much, if at all. So consistent portrayal says he is very strong.

5. In almost all of Gouki's endings he does something like what I named. And he consistently cannot be challenged at all by the rest of the cast.

1. Neither have ever fought Akuma, get some cream for that butthurt man, God. Already explained why soul-taking will not work.

2. Why are you talking about Dhalsim like he is weak, first of all? He is one of the stronger characters in the series, at or above Ryu in fact. Though nowhere near as strong as Gouki, who has shown to be consistently much stronger than Ryu while Gouki is holding back... In base form. He has two forms beyond even that, the only feat Shin Akuma has is destroying a meteor.

1. But he cannot steal Akuma's. Destroying Jax's arms? WOW GAI NO WAY only Charlie has better feats than that, cutting a cliff in half with a Flash Kick. Charlie, though fairly strong, does not begin to compare to the top dogs of Street Fighter. Are you trolling? Because citing feats like those and then saying they enable them to easily defeat the best of SF, mostly talking about Ermac, makes you either a troll, or just an idiot. Which is it, Quanny ol' boy?

2. Dhalsim has never been punched by Akuma. Get that through your head babe.

1. Your butthurt man, it is growing, you need to remedy it quickly. "I don't care if he hasn't canonically met up with Dhalsim" No. Stop right there. That exposes you as a biased fool of the worst kind, canonically, Dhalsim has never met Akuma. Gameplay mechanics, like Dan being able to conceivably pose a threat to Akuma or Bison, are not valid. And you are right, that does not mean she cannot be hurt by them... Because the feat you just described is not a durability feat. However, it DOES mean she can beat all the fighters she beat, since she, you know, did.

2. ... Uhuh. Only Akuma HAS killed people, he killed his master Goutetsu, he killed Bison and Gill, one-shotting them. IIRC at some point he kills Adon. Ryu CHOOSES not to kill people, most of the fighters CHOOSE not to kill people. Part of Balrog's backstory is killing a boxer in the ring. They CAN kill people, some of them just choose not to. Are you implying the Street Fighter characters are actually incapable of killing people? Are you saying that Ryu, with his ability to train by holding up huge boulders, stated IIRC to be as heavy as a tank, would be unable to physically kill a human being? But most importantly Quan, are you an idiot?

3. Akuma. Has. Killed. People. Stop using gameplay mechanics. Stop being butthurt Quan. Your butthurt is showing.

4. Collateral damage?

5. Either stop trolling, or stop exposing decent people on the internet to your stupidity. Get over yourself. 1.When was it mentioned later in the series ? Care to prove it ? The funny thing is you claim I am butthurt but your desperation knows no limits.

Shao Kahn's powers, canon story, and endings all count as well then. His implied power is enough to defeat Raiden for good a god previously shown the ability to survive self destruction. Yeah, eat that street fighter.

2.No, I don't think Dan can beat Akuma because of Akuma's skill not because Dan can't hurt him. Try and actually understand my points before you embarrass yourself the next time. I am big on portrayal while you are big on blowing up feats and disregarding everything else.

3. So this doesn't apply to Shao Kahn. The same tactic isn't used by Shao Kahn and the mk verse doesn't work that way. He just takes his soul he doesn't have to destroy it he'd either amp himself or someone else.

4.I never doubted he is consistently strong/skilled in his own universe which is separate than the mk one. Shao Kahn is also consistently shown as one huge badass. Take the armageddon opening. He just starts chucking people with his hammer like ragdolls. Also take a look at this game where he easily steals shang's soul who himself has power over souls, easily snaps Kung Lao's neck, and dominated Raiden to set all these crazy events into motion in the first place.

5.Ryu is a challenge for him. He might be one of the upper guys but he isn't in a class by himself.

1.You claimed his soul cannot be destroyed but shao kahn isn't destroying his soul. Do you understand the difference, guy ?

2.Dhalsim's body is frail and weaker than Ryu's body. Just look at it and look how you have to fight when you pick him. He's a ranged fighter. His body isn't in great shape compared to most of the others it's visually quite obvious. So you believe Akuma holds back here ? Great, make it even easier on Shao Kahn. So even by your own standards he won't attack a fellow fighter the same way he would a meteor or an island. You still haven't proven any of this is canon.

1. Why can't he steal Akuma's again ? You claimed he can't destroy it but never offered any proof as to him resisting a soul steal.

Just citing a character from the mk universe can do so with tk so Guile won't be able to hit anyone with a flash kick. Prove it's canon also.

2.You can select Akuma and Dhalsim. Akuma doesn't oneshot him in the game nor is he portrayed in a movie as doing so. The game makes it clear who is at the upper echelon but also makes it clear through gameplay each has the strength to hurt each other with varying skill/techniques.


1.Not butthurt just pointing out portrayals and the actual game. You thinking these guys can't hurt Akuma contradicts every street fighter game ever released and it's further evident by you screaming they have never met but dismissing the actual game in lieu of your own personal obsession with Akuma.

2. When ? Proof ? I am saying it's possible sure but for the most part it's koing characters whereas Mk characters don't just kill they rip your arms off, punch your head off, etc. That's the difference between dying in a coma or being punched to death and being torn in half. Boom.

3.Not as impressively as the mk characters have hence the point.

4.Destroying an island is collateral damage.

5. Concession accepted.
When ? Proof ? Shao Kahn has as has every mk character shown the ability to do so.

quanchi112
Originally posted by Phanteros
http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/7/73957/1678473-akuma_super.jpg
and this
zmXxpl6oSNI

Until I see Shao doing this or a Island sinking attack he loses, not to mention Akuma has a ability to send his opponent's soul to hell. So every characters ending for both series is within their abilities ? This just made my life ten times easier. Do you realize how many endings Shao Kahn actually lives despite being killed and either taking your character or coming back at a later time.

Darkstorm Zero
Originally posted by quanchi112
So every characters ending for both series is within their abilities ? This just made my life ten times easier. Do you realize how many endings Shao Kahn actually lives despite being killed and either taking your character or coming back at a later time.

Your an idiot... Where did anyone say All endings are used, even non-canon ones? Except for the Meteor, all the endings thus far have been official.

Darkstorm Zero
Originally posted by quanchi112
1.When was it mentioned later in the series ? Care to prove it ? The funny thing is you claim I am butthurt but your desperation knows no limits.

It was used as a major Alpha 2 plotpoint, where Ryu discouvered the truth about Satsui No Hadou. It was this event that began his quest too let it go.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Shao Kahn's powers, canon story, and endings all count as well then. His implied power is enough to defeat Raiden for good a god previously shown the ability to survive self destruction. Yeah, eat that street fighter.

No, they do not. The difference is that every ending refferenced has officially happened. MK's storyline only has one canon chain of events. Raiden being a god has no bearing on his combat capabilities Quan, titles don;t mean anything without the proven abilities to back it up.

Originally posted by quanchi112
2.No, I don't think Dan can beat Akuma because of Akuma's skill not because Dan can't hurt him. Try and actually understand my points before you embarrass yourself the next time. I am big on portrayal while you are big on blowing up feats and disregarding everything else.

Portrayal is only part of the equasion, as are feats. Dan literally can't hurt anyone in SF really. He gets crushed by everyone around him, even the lowest tiers. The only thing Dan has going for him is survivability, the fact that he has survived so many crushing defeats without dying is a true testament to his durability.

Originally posted by quanchi112
3. So this doesn't apply to Shao Kahn. The same tactic isn't used by Shao Kahn and the mk verse doesn't work that way. He just takes his soul he doesn't have to destroy it he'd either amp himself or someone else.

Right, because he has been shown to do this.... when exactly? and against whom? If you refference MK3's mass civilian soul stealing I will laugh my ass off in your face...

Originally posted by quanchi112
4.I never doubted he is consistently strong/skilled in his own universe which is separate than the mk one. Shao Kahn is also consistently shown as one huge badass. Take the armageddon opening. He just starts chucking people with his hammer like ragdolls. Also take a look at this game where he easily steals shang's soul who himself has power over souls, easily snaps Kung Lao's neck, and dominated Raiden to set all these crazy events into motion in the first place.

And yet he gets plucked away like a chicken feather by Onaga... Another character who couldn't match Gouki's more destructive capabilities.

Originally posted by quanchi112
5.Ryu is a challenge for him. He might be one of the upper guys but he isn't in a class by himself.

Ryu only ever defeated Gouki when he was testing Ryu, A non-serious base form Gouki... Really Quan, your reaching really hard here.

Originally posted by quanchi112
1.You claimed his soul cannot be destroyed but shao kahn isn't destroying his soul. Do you understand the difference, guy ?

do you understand that the differences your trying to imply are completely irrelevant? Kahn is trying to remove the soul of someone who has resisted soul manipulation on a far harsher scale.

Originally posted by quanchi112
2.Dhalsim's body is frail and weaker than Ryu's body. Just look at it and look how you have to fight when you pick him. He's a ranged fighter. His body isn't in great shape compared to most of the others it's visually quite obvious. So you believe Akuma holds back here ? Great, make it even easier on Shao Kahn. So even by your own standards he won't attack a fellow fighter the same way he would a meteor or an island. You still haven't proven any of this is canon.

Do you read what is written before your eyes? They both said that Dhalsim has never fought Gouki, which is correct. So, your basing your analysis on how Dhalsim looks? Whats that got to do withthe dude's actual fighting capability? Here's an example: A frail looking little girl walks up to you, and you would not think she could harm a fly even if it was wingless and legless. The, all of a sudden you find yourself thrown back 25 feet due to the psionic shockwave she just hit you with. Thats what it's going to be like fighting Dhalsim. You are not trying to palm over an unsolicited advantage are you? Where does it say that Akuma would hold back for this thread? Thats the point of tall this, almost every one of his feats are done with less than half his total strength, meanwhile, Kahn, who has not a feat to match anything Gouki has done, has been close to death on MANY occasions. Oh, and the Island feat was done by base Gouki IE: still holding back the lions share of his power.

Originally posted by quanchi112
1. Why can't he steal Akuma's again ? You claimed he can't destroy it but never offered any proof as to him resisting a soul steal.

Because he resists the soul destroying power of his own Shun Goku Satsu numerous times, which has been stated to fell both attacker and victim simultaneously when it has been used. All previous practitioners of the technique have dide from using it only once. Gouki not only survived his first use of it, but has used it numerous times, and has even strengthened the technique by using even more of his killing power. You tell me why that should not qualify him as resistant to soul manipulation.

Darkstorm Zero
Originally posted by quanchi112
Just citing a character from the mk universe can do so with tk so Guile won't be able to hit anyone with a flash kick. Prove it's canon also.

Why not? All the MK characters have been hit by far slower attacks, and the point being raised is that the strength of ripping someones limbs off is a far cry from potential battlefield damaging attacks.

Your use of the term "Prove it" is quickly becoming a crutch that proves you have done no research whatsoever.

Originally posted by quanchi112
2.You can select Akuma and Dhalsim. Akuma doesn't oneshot him in the game nor is he portrayed in a movie as doing so. The game makes it clear who is at the upper echelon but also makes it clear through gameplay each has the strength to hurt each other with varying skill/techniques.

The inherent flaw in your logic is that your relying on GAMEPLAY... I need not say anything more.

Originally posted by quanchi112
1.Not butthurt just pointing out portrayals and the actual game. You thinking these guys can't hurt Akuma contradicts every street fighter game ever released and it's further evident by you screaming they have never met but dismissing the actual game in lieu of your own personal obsession with Akuma.

There is a massive difference bitween that and what was actually said. The fact is, your trying to introduce gameplay elements to try and disprove a well established fact; Akuma, even when in base form and was testing Ryu, was able to sink an island with a punch. Now, with that feat alone, we can say that Akuma CAN throw multi double digit megatonne psi level punches, and nobody in MK has the capability to resist that much force, it turns people into a fine red mist.

Originally posted by quanchi112
2. When ? Proof ? I am saying it's possible sure but for the most part it's koing characters whereas Mk characters don't just kill they rip your arms off, punch your head off, etc. That's the difference between dying in a coma or being punched to death and being torn in half. Boom.

All that could mean is that MK characters are highly succeptible to injury. I say this because SF has characters that resist Island Sinking physical blows, and nobody in MK has a feat that comes anywhere near that level of destruction for a purely physical attack. You can raise all the reality fuggery all you like, but when it comes down to a one on one battle, this is what counts the most.

Originally posted by quanchi112
3.Not as impressively as the mk characters have hence the point.

flashiness is hardly a substitute. You have to prove Kahn will get Gouki anywhere near that depleted before he can use a fatality, and since Kahn has lost to "mere mortals" with thess than a 50th of Gouki's strength, why should it be assumed that Kahn can overcome Gouki? Instawin fatalities dont exist in MK going by your ingame bastardisation of this thread, but Gouki can pull off a SGS at any moment.

Originally posted by quanchi112
4.Destroying an island is collateral damage.

Caused by what? Oh, thats right. Gouki sunk it with his fist. Deliberately. Yeah, the collateral payout to Gouki's bank account due to house insurance is going to be huge.

Originally posted by quanchi112
5. Concession accepted.
When ? Proof ? Shao Kahn has as has every mk character shown the ability to do so.

Concession? Bullshit.

Goutetsu was killed by Akuma, Gouken was comatosed for YEARS by the SGS, Bison has killed dozens of people canonically. As has Gen. The ability to kill is not nessisarily a representation of fighting cabability Wuan, thats kinda the whole point behind Ryu's quest to reject the Satsui No Hadou. If you want to guage a versus purely by killcounts, then Duke Nukem retroatively wins by killing every man alive through time. He has the bodycount nobody can touch. There ya go, by Quan logic, I have just singlehandedly one every versus thread that has ever and will ever be made, retroactively!

See what happens when you apply your Bizzaro Quan Logic?

You get $h!t.

Tha C-Master
Shao Kahn was beaten by Liu Kang... that pretty much just nets him the lost there.... sad

GVSSK
Lol at Phanteros still using the comet feat.

crimson_2010
akuma smash him but if its against ultimate Shao kahn ( the one who defeated blaze) it'd another story...

Meioh_Hades
We don't know the truly extent of "uber Shao Kahn" powers.

However since MK 2011 reboot Shao Kahn would never win the Armageddon and take the power of Blaze.

@ quanchi112: If you think that the island destruction truly is "collateral damage", that means that Gouki's fits is even more powerful, not weaker.

And I repeat even here, quanchi112: all those "proof?" only proves that you don't know about anything about SF verse, so don't be upset if people that "did the research" tell you that Gouki, Ryu, etc. are far more powerful canonwise than they're shown gameplaywise.

Zack Fair
Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
Your an idiot...

You haven't seen much of Quanchi haven't you?

It is common knowledge, on par with Superman's weakness being kryptonite, that he can be that.

Tha C-Master
Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
Your an idiot... Where did anyone say All endings are used, even non-canon ones? Except for the Meteor, all the endings thus far have been official. Darkstorm used to never insult lol. What happened?

Ban Mido
Idk why everyone is arguing, it's so obvious Shao Kahn wins. I mean come on, he would crush Ingrid like she was nothing...LOL okay seriously though no I see Akuma taking this. If you don't take game mechanics into it (cause let's face it, if they made it so Akuma actually used all his strength and one shotted everyone..that would make for a terrible..terrible game no expression..Dans attacks wouldn't even register rofl) and look at the actual feats from the canon endings it becomes quite clear. I just have never viewed MK characters as all that powerful compared to other fighting games O_O...

Maybe it's just me...I mean I've seen people argue that MK characters can hang with high tier Dark Stalker characters(Pyron,Jedah,Dimitri, etc. etc.)..and..well... no expression....everyone has a right to their opinion...as wrong as I may think they are -_-;..

StyleTime
Originally posted by Tha C-Master
Darkstorm used to never insult lol. What happened?
I've noticed quanchi112 has that effect on a lot of people.


Anyways, Akuma wins.

Darkstorm Zero
Originally posted by Tha C-Master
Darkstorm used to never insult lol. What happened?

When the evil fanboys cannot be argued with, cannot be reasoned with, cannot feal pity or remorse or fear and absolutely will not stop ever, it's time to burn them with fire.

and thats when they receive the: http://flipthatbird.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/middle-finger-of-apocalypse.jpg

Frisky Dingo
I always wondered if that pic was photo shopped.

Darkstorm Zero
It probably is, I dunno, since I didn't make it. But, it is apt for this.

Meioh_Hades
Originally posted by Ban Mido
If you don't take game mechanics into it (cause let's face it, if they made it so Akuma actually used all his strength and one shotted everyone..that would make for a terrible..terrible game no expression..Dans attacks wouldn't even register rofl) and look at the actual feats from the canon endings it becomes quite clear. I just have never viewed MK characters as all that powerful compared to other fighting games O_O...

Mortal Kombat is one of my favourite fighting games, but I agree too that, despite the violence, the sorcery, etc. MK chars are not so powerful, compared to other fighting games' char.

For example, in MKD intro, Raiden did that explosion (capable of killing Shang Tsung) with a self sacrifice. Looking at the size of the explosion, it was quite a feat, but freakin' Chun Li (wich is a good fighter, but certainly not the strongest SF char) can create an explosion of similar size and power with her Kikosho, without the need of do a self sacrifice (and that Kikosho just damaged Dictator, not killed him).

Bro SMASH
Wait, since when could Chun-Li make that kind of explosion?

Meioh_Hades
That's the SF 4 anime preview.

http://youtu.be/T51U8uQFrQo

At 0.52 behold the "big Kikosho of doom". And that is from Chun Li, a char more known for her agility and speed than for her raw power.

Gameplay-wise SF special moves are not that "massive", or else the game would have been full of full screen attacks. And if Guile's Sonic Boom would travel at more than mach 1, how could someone jump, avoid or counter it in the gameplay?

ArtificialGlory
Originally posted by Meioh_Hades
That's the SF 4 anime preview.

http://youtu.be/T51U8uQFrQo

At 0.52 behold the "big Kikosho of doom". And that is from Chun Li, a char more known for her agility and speed than for her raw power.

Gameplay-wise SF special moves are not that "massive", or else the game would have been full of full screen attacks. And if Guile's Sonic Boom would travel at more than mach 1, how could someone jump, avoid or counter it in the gameplay?

I love how the first comment on the video is "Dude, movies aren't part of the canon. Everybody knows that."

Bro SMASH
That explosion is definitely not on the same level as Raiden's. Raiden's explosion took incinerated the whole tomb while that Chun-Li's just made a crater.

Darkstorm Zero
Hmm, Raiden's also left a crater, whats the difference?

Meioh_Hades
Originally posted by ArtificialGlory
I love how the first comment on the video is "Dude, movies aren't part of the canon. Everybody knows that."

And I love how another comment is

"The animated ones for SFIV are."
"Hell, SSFIV repeatedly references the Juri movie."

Bro SMASH
Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
Hmm, Raiden's also left a crater, whats the difference?

That's just it; Chun-Li's left a crater. Raiden's, however, not only did that but destroyed that whole area and it's surroundings and that area is pretty big too.

Tha C-Master
Akuma does much more than that casually, lol.

Frisky Dingo
Originally posted by ArtificialGlory
I love how the first comment on the video is "Dude, movies aren't part of the canon. Everybody knows that."


Originally posted by Meioh_Hades
And I love how another comment is

"The animated ones for SFIV are."
"Hell, SSFIV repeatedly references the Juri movie."

laughing

Unfortunately, "investigate" and "research" are not in most peoples vocabulary around here.

ArtificialGlory
Meh.. I was just pointing out something that I thought was kinda funny. If I was going to debate SF, I'd do my research.

Tha C-Master
Originally posted by StyleTime
I've noticed quanchi112 has that effect on a lot of people.


Anyways, Akuma wins. He's fun, he's cool.Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
When the evil fanboys cannot be argued with, cannot be reasoned with, cannot feal pity or remorse or fear and absolutely will not stop ever, it's time to burn them with fire.

and thats when they receive the: http://flipthatbird.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/middle-finger-of-apocalypse.jpg Now you see where I was coming from.

quanchi112
Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
Your an idiot... Where did anyone say All endings are used, even non-canon ones? Except for the Meteor, all the endings thus far have been official. It's you're an idiot so please the next time you think of insulting someone's intelligence please at least spell the word correctly. You have no proof this is canon for Akuma either. That's the point just because a few people claim it's canon without proof you have nothing.

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
It was used as a major Alpha 2 plotpoint, where Ryu discouvered the truth about Satsui No Hadou. It was this event that began his quest too let it go.



No, they do not. The difference is that every ending refferenced has officially happened. MK's storyline only has one canon chain of events. Raiden being a god has no bearing on his combat capabilities Quan, titles don;t mean anything without the proven abilities to back it up.



Portrayal is only part of the equasion, as are feats. Dan literally can't hurt anyone in SF really. He gets crushed by everyone around him, even the lowest tiers. The only thing Dan has going for him is survivability, the fact that he has survived so many crushing defeats without dying is a true testament to his durability.



Right, because he has been shown to do this.... when exactly? and against whom? If you refference MK3's mass civilian soul stealing I will laugh my ass off in your face...



And yet he gets plucked away like a chicken feather by Onaga... Another character who couldn't match Gouki's more destructive capabilities.



Ryu only ever defeated Gouki when he was testing Ryu, A non-serious base form Gouki... Really Quan, your reaching really hard here.



do you understand that the differences your trying to imply are completely irrelevant? Kahn is trying to remove the soul of someone who has resisted soul manipulation on a far harsher scale.



Do you read what is written before your eyes? They both said that Dhalsim has never fought Gouki, which is correct. So, your basing your analysis on how Dhalsim looks? Whats that got to do withthe dude's actual fighting capability? Here's an example: A frail looking little girl walks up to you, and you would not think she could harm a fly even if it was wingless and legless. The, all of a sudden you find yourself thrown back 25 feet due to the psionic shockwave she just hit you with. Thats what it's going to be like fighting Dhalsim. You are not trying to palm over an unsolicited advantage are you? Where does it say that Akuma would hold back for this thread? Thats the point of tall this, almost every one of his feats are done with less than half his total strength, meanwhile, Kahn, who has not a feat to match anything Gouki has done, has been close to death on MANY occasions. Oh, and the Island feat was done by base Gouki IE: still holding back the lions share of his power.



Because he resists the soul destroying power of his own Shun Goku Satsu numerous times, which has been stated to fell both attacker and victim simultaneously when it has been used. All previous practitioners of the technique have dide from using it only once. Gouki not only survived his first use of it, but has used it numerous times, and has even strengthened the technique by using even more of his killing power. You tell me why that should not qualify him as resistant to soul manipulation. Then prove it's canon not that it's a major plot point.

Raiden has backed it up since he died with a huge self destructive blast before and come back. That's called being a badass and backing it up. He can''t permanently die but then again Shao Kahn did so after the events of mk armaggedon.

Dan can still hurt them all. Dan isn't skilled enough to score the wins but every character in both games can hurt each other. That doesn't mean there aren't more skilled or more powerful fighters though.

Shao stole shang tsung's soul and power. Boom.

Onaga is another badass from Mk. He's the original ruler of outworld. Shao Kahn obviously survived and won this battle so who cares if Onaga flew behind him while fighting Shang Tsung and carried him off. LOL. Worst argument. Ever.

Ryu is a challenge which is my point. Akuma's rival is Ryu. Do you know what rival means ? I didn't say Ryu dominates him I said he's a challenge which he definitely is. LOL.

Kahn has different powers than the street fighter characters. Magic seems a lot more powerful than anything in street fighter since their magic can merge the entire world and remove souls from the most of the population. Taking Shang's soul whose power is over souls/stealing/adding theirs to his own power shows how uber Shao's magic is.

Not meeting dhalsim doesn't mean he craps all over dhalsim and gameplay shows you dhalsim has the power to hurt Akuma. It's obvious anyways as all the world's greatest fighters can hurt each other. To suggest they cannot is living in an alice in wonderland fantasyland.

The attack is completely different than Shao Kahn stealing your soul.

quanchi112
Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
Why not? All the MK characters have been hit by far slower attacks, and the point being raised is that the strength of ripping someones limbs off is a far cry from potential battlefield damaging attacks.

Your use of the term "Prove it" is quickly becoming a crutch that proves you have done no research whatsoever.



The inherent flaw in your logic is that your relying on GAMEPLAY... I need not say anything more.



There is a massive difference bitween that and what was actually said. The fact is, your trying to introduce gameplay elements to try and disprove a well established fact; Akuma, even when in base form and was testing Ryu, was able to sink an island with a punch. Now, with that feat alone, we can say that Akuma CAN throw multi double digit megatonne psi level punches, and nobody in MK has the capability to resist that much force, it turns people into a fine red mist.



All that could mean is that MK characters are highly succeptible to injury. I say this because SF has characters that resist Island Sinking physical blows, and nobody in MK has a feat that comes anywhere near that level of destruction for a purely physical attack. You can raise all the reality fuggery all you like, but when it comes down to a one on one battle, this is what counts the most.



flashiness is hardly a substitute. You have to prove Kahn will get Gouki anywhere near that depleted before he can use a fatality, and since Kahn has lost to "mere mortals" with thess than a 50th of Gouki's strength, why should it be assumed that Kahn can overcome Gouki? Instawin fatalities dont exist in MK going by your ingame bastardisation of this thread, but Gouki can pull off a SGS at any moment.



Caused by what? Oh, thats right. Gouki sunk it with his fist. Deliberately. Yeah, the collateral payout to Gouki's bank account due to house insurance is going to be huge.



Concession? Bullshit.

Goutetsu was killed by Akuma, Gouken was comatosed for YEARS by the SGS, Bison has killed dozens of people canonically. As has Gen. The ability to kill is not nessisarily a representation of fighting cabability Wuan, thats kinda the whole point behind Ryu's quest to reject the Satsui No Hadou. If you want to guage a versus purely by killcounts, then Duke Nukem retroatively wins by killing every man alive through time. He has the bodycount nobody can touch. There ya go, by Quan logic, I have just singlehandedly one every versus thread that has ever and will ever be made, retroactively!

See what happens when you apply your Bizzaro Quan Logic?

You get $h!t. The collateral damage doesn't add up and hasn't been proven canon anyways. It's also outside the norm and against his character since he rarely goes all out. So either way even if you believe he's capable of such power which he isn't he won't do so anyways.

You said something is canon but cannot prove it so you concede the point. You want it to be canon so badly and to create loopholes around the word proof for Akuma. I get it.

Gameplay has to do with portrayal. Saying some of these fighters can't be hurt by each other ignores gameplay and portrayals.

It's irrelevant for two reasons.

1.You haven't proven it's canon.
2.It's out of his character to go all out anyways.

You've never proven any of Akuma's other attacks are island punching attacks so stating other street fighters characters can tank them isn't true. You can't even prove it's canon anyways.

Kahn has lost to a mortal capable of defeating characters who can defeat unkillable gods so I think Liu Kang has more than backed his resume. I think Liu Kang would defeat akuma as well.

Unproven and out of character to use these same attacks against an opponent.

They can kill sure but not with the same super strength of the mk fights have done so in the past against their peers.

Street fighter characters can't rip their opponents arms off or punch their heads off. Portrayal wise they aren't even close to mk characters.

quanchi112
Originally posted by Meioh_Hades
We don't know the truly extent of "uber Shao Kahn" powers.

However since MK 2011 reboot Shao Kahn would never win the Armageddon and take the power of Blaze.

@ quanchi112: If you think that the island destruction truly is "collateral damage", that means that Gouki's fits is even more powerful, not weaker.

And I repeat even here, quanchi112: all those "proof?" only proves that you don't know about anything about SF verse, so don't be upset if people that "did the research" tell you that Gouki, Ryu, etc. are far more powerful canonwise than they're shown gameplaywise. It's not consistent with his character, it hasn't been proven to be canon, and it's out of character.


So try again, please.

Common portrayals have always had mkers ripping each other in half, etc. while the elite of street fighter ko each other consistently. The strength advantage is lopsided in favor of mk.

Meioh_Hades
LOL at Gouki's destruction of Goukuentou "not consistent with his character" XD XD XD XD XD

THAT's the ultimate proof that you don't know anything of the SF universe and you're just a SF hater and a troll.

C'mon: the standard Gouki's ending is "do a truly impressive feat".

SF Alpha 2 ending: Destroying Goukentou island with 1 strike

SF 3 2nd impact endind: Turning Uluru from "Ayers Rock" to "Ayers pebbles"

SF 3 3rd strike ending: destroying the huge sunken ship with one strike

SSF 4 ending: wiping a forest with just the recoil of a ki-based attack.

What's next? Using an ice-based attack "not consistent" with Sub Zero? :P

Tha C-Master
People like what they want to.

quanchi112
Originally posted by Meioh_Hades
LOL at Gouki's destruction of Goukuentou "not consistent with his character" XD XD XD XD XD

THAT's the ultimate proof that you don't know anything of the SF universe and you're just a SF hater and a troll.

C'mon: the standard Gouki's ending is "do a truly impressive feat".

SF Alpha 2 ending: Destroying Goukentou island with 1 strike

SF 3 2nd impact endind: Turning Uluru from "Ayers Rock" to "Ayers pebbles"

SF 3 3rd strike ending: destroying the huge sunken ship with one strike

SSF 4 ending: wiping a forest with just the recoil of a ki-based attack.

What's next? Using an ice-based attack "not consistent" with Sub Zero? :P LOL at you grasping at straws here. You haven't proven these endings are canon I mean I can use many different endings consistent with Shao kahn's power. I have already covered this and the fact it's been rammed home he doesn't use all his power in a versus fight anyways. So even if Akuma can destroy an island he'd never use that type of force on a human opponent which destroys the argument that made no sense that street fighter bodies were more durable than islands.

Zack Fair
Originally posted by Meioh_Hades

C'mon: the standard Gouki's ending is "do a truly impressive feat".


thumb up thumb up

Every time I finish any game with him I go all "Ok lets see what crazy shit this mofo got in store this time"

Darkstorm Zero
Originally posted by quanchi112
LOL at you grasping at straws here. You haven't proven these endings are canon I mean I can use many different endings consistent with Shao kahn's power. I have already covered this and the fact it's been rammed home he doesn't use all his power in a versus fight anyways. So even if Akuma can destroy an island he'd never use that type of force on a human opponent which destroys the argument that made no sense that street fighter bodies were more durable than islands.

The difference is "Chain of Events" Quan. This combined with "Precedent" of having just one ending being legit and all the others non conflicting means that Akuma has a massive battery of feats.

He doesn't use full power in his matches? Your right about that, he doesn't, not in gameplay anyway, but in these vs threads here at KMC, the fighters are always at their very best unless otherwise stated.

Now, name me one Kahn ending besides Armageddon that is official and did happen please.

quanchi112
Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
The difference is "Chain of Events" Quan. This combined with "Precedent" of having just one ending being legit and all the others non conflicting means that Akuma has a massive battery of feats.

He doesn't use full power in his matches? Your right about that, he doesn't, not in gameplay anyway, but in these vs threads here at KMC, the fighters are always at their very best unless otherwise stated.

Now, name me one Kahn ending besides Armageddon that is official and did happen please. You haven't proven any of them are canon yet.

They also fight in character at their best. Since when is it a powerset debate eliminating the character of Akuma.

You haven't proven any akuma ending is canon so I didn't feel I had to.

MooCowofJustice
Originally posted by NemeBro
1. Well it being mentioned later in the series for one. Akuma's endings do not clash with any other ending, they are stand-alone, and are representative of the character's abilities.


Don't mind me. Just popped in to say hello.

Darkstorm Zero
Originally posted by quanchi112
You haven't proven any of them are canon yet.

You being convinced of canon policy is not a requirement to stating fact Quan, the moment you realise this the better. The endings have been proven canon countless times in the 7 years I've been here, I'm not jumping through hoops for you when you fail to do basic research. Plus, you've proven not a thing, or even offered a counterclaim. ergo, since the endings are there, and are required for the story to proceed, the burden of proof now lies with you.

Originally posted by quanchi112
They also fight in character at their best. Since when is it a powerset debate eliminating the character of Akuma.

When was this stated Quan? These vs threads are all theoretical debates of characters at their best, with no holding back. And since you never stated in the OP that you must have them "In-Character", the default VS rules apply.

See, this is what I'm getting REALLY pissed off with, VERY few people EVER actually put detail into their OPs, and then get pissy when they arn't getting the debate they envisioned. It's nobody elses fault but your own.

Originally posted by quanchi112
You haven't proven any akuma ending is canon so I didn't feel I had to.

So... You thought it was a good idea to DEMAND proof of well established line of plot for Street Fighter, and yet you didn't feel obliged to do the same for the character you are supporting?

GREAT Debating strategy there Quan. Except you fail the most basic rule, do NOT demand evidence without providing any yourself to establish your character as superior to his/her opponent, it make you look like a total foolish jerk and a dumbass to boot.

quanchi112
Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
You being convinced of canon policy is not a requirement to stating fact Quan, the moment you realise this the better. The endings have been proven canon countless times in the 7 years I've been here, I'm not jumping through hoops for you when you fail to do basic research. Plus, you've proven not a thing, or even offered a counterclaim. ergo, since the endings are there, and are required for the story to proceed, the burden of proof now lies with you.



When was this stated Quan? These vs threads are all theoretical debates of characters at their best, with no holding back. And since you never stated in the OP that you must have them "In-Character", the default VS rules apply.

See, this is what I'm getting REALLY pissed off with, VERY few people EVER actually put detail into their OPs, and then get pissy when they arn't getting the debate they envisioned. It's nobody elses fault but your own.



So... You thought it was a good idea to DEMAND proof of well established line of plot for Street Fighter, and yet you didn't feel obliged to do the same for the character you are supporting?

GREAT Debating strategy there Quan. Except you fail the most basic rule, do NOT demand evidence without providing any yourself to establish your character as superior to his/her opponent, it make you look like a total foolish jerk and a dumbass to boot. I don't care if you accept it's canon you can't prove it so I remain unconvinced as speculation isn't proof.

I come from the comic vs. section so I assumed the rules were similar. I can't help if if you don't believe in Akuma's character just his best powerfeats eliminating what makes him him in the first place.

It's the same logic the only reason I brought it up is because you did. I don't think either endings are canon but every single character is capable of their endings based off of their abilities but if they don't occur they aren't canon. It's mindnumbingly simple.

I simply used your own tactic against you and watched as you pissed and moaned. Quit getting so worked up over my opinion. Opinions vary seek to control yourself in the future for your own sake.

Darkstorm Zero
Originally posted by quanchi112
I don't care if you accept it's canon you can't prove it so I remain unconvinced as speculation isn't proof.

It's not that I accept it as canon Quan, the difference is it IS canon, it's Ryu's ending, and it is required to move the ENTIRE plot forward. and as I said, you being convinced is not a requirement for fact to be true.

Originally posted by quanchi112
I come from the comic vs. section so I assumed the rules were similar. I can't help if if you don't believe in Akuma's character just his best powerfeats eliminating what makes him him in the first place.

I don't give a crap if you came from Comic vs or a political debating arena or from the courts of law. If you don't do your research, especially about the rules of a particular forum, then you get everything you deserve. And no, Akuma has ALWAYS been prtrayed in story as the single most powerful fighter, they made him stronger than Bison in his Debut, they gave him his Shin form as an excuse to bolster his power even more, and retroatively made him hold back in base form, and now we have Oni who is even beyond Shin. You pissfarting around with the rules, demanding proof, for all kinds of bullshit, and then going on to say you thought you didn't need to provide any yourself is a masterstroke of pure idiocy. And now you trying to DEFEND that stance compounds it.

Originally posted by quanchi112
It's the same logic the only reason I brought it up is because you did. I don't think either endings are canon but every single character is capable of their endings based off of their abilities but if they don't occur they aren't canon. It's mindnumbingly simple.

It's that kind of assumption that leads to non-canon endings gaining some sort of credibility in a VS debate Quan. Should I bring up the Meteor feat for Shin Akuma then? or hows about Ryu SOLOING Galactus? No? I didn't think you would.

Originally posted by quanchi112
I simply used your own tactic against you and watched as you pissed and moaned. Quit getting so worked up over my opinion. Opinions vary seek to control yourself in the future for your own sake.

My own tactics?

Look again Quan. I used NONE of the above mentioned debating stratagems you employed, plus I provided backup for any claim I made. I daresay what I said is fact, and not oppinion like your own, and that makes ALL the difference.

If you had any facts to back up your absurd claims, and had NOT relied on the so-called "Prove it" crutch as a delaying tactic over and over, I'm sure we would have seen them by now, except as I said earlier, you thought it was a great idea to demand proof, but not provide any yourself... Now your trying to throw it back on me as a "used your own tricks against you" claim that is not only false, but is merely trolling.

So, this will be my only warning to you Quan, debate properly, or be reported for trolling and spamming. And remember, this is the ONLY warning I intend to give.

Bro SMASH
Originally posted by Zack Fair
thumb up thumb up

Every time I finish any game with him I go all "Ok lets see what crazy shit this mofo got in store this time"

Don't be surprised if his Oni Akuma ending has him on DBZ level. laughing out loud

Darkstorm Zero
Originally posted by Bro SMASH
Don't be surprised if his Oni Akuma ending has him on DBZ level. laughing out loud

Eh, not quite.

After googling it, I found it. It shows Oni activating a volcano from the inside, and then ride out in lava...

quanchi112
Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
It's not that I accept it as canon Quan, the difference is it IS canon, it's Ryu's ending, and it is required to move the ENTIRE plot forward. and as I said, you being convinced is not a requirement for fact to be true.



I don't give a crap if you came from Comic vs or a political debating arena or from the courts of law. If you don't do your research, especially about the rules of a particular forum, then you get everything you deserve. And no, Akuma has ALWAYS been prtrayed in story as the single most powerful fighter, they made him stronger than Bison in his Debut, they gave him his Shin form as an excuse to bolster his power even more, and retroatively made him hold back in base form, and now we have Oni who is even beyond Shin. You pissfarting around with the rules, demanding proof, for all kinds of bullshit, and then going on to say you thought you didn't need to provide any yourself is a masterstroke of pure idiocy. And now you trying to DEFEND that stance compounds it.



It's that kind of assumption that leads to non-canon endings gaining some sort of credibility in a VS debate Quan. Should I bring up the Meteor feat for Shin Akuma then? or hows about Ryu SOLOING Galactus? No? I didn't think you would.



My own tactics?

Look again Quan. I used NONE of the above mentioned debating stratagems you employed, plus I provided backup for any claim I made. I daresay what I said is fact, and not oppinion like your own, and that makes ALL the difference.

If you had any facts to back up your absurd claims, and had NOT relied on the so-called "Prove it" crutch as a delaying tactic over and over, I'm sure we would have seen them by now, except as I said earlier, you thought it was a great idea to demand proof, but not provide any yourself... Now your trying to throw it back on me as a "used your own tricks against you" claim that is not only false, but is merely trolling.

So, this will be my only warning to you Quan, debate properly, or be reported for trolling and spamming. And remember, this is the ONLY warning I intend to give. You are suggesting it's canon when has street fighter stated this ending is canon.

Then you aren't arguing for Akuma just his powerset based off of a few feats that haven't been proven as canon. The ironic thing is you call me an idiot without a shred of proof just speculation.

The game Galactus isn't anywhere near as formidable as his comic counterpart and aren't even canon to their own series. Why would you bring up a feat for shin akuma when this is just akuma ?

I have provided proof of Shao Kahn taking a soul. I never used other endings as proof I just stated it's the same tactic you used since you can't prove akuma's endings are canon ie. have happened.

LOL at your wrnings when all you do is bash and get angry. Don' tbe a hypocrite. Shao Kahn has shown tremendous power and that he's on the highest level of mk there is in one on one combat. He has easily stolen souls, rocked various mk fighters with his hammer, has shown the strength to rip through mk fighters with his bare hands, and shown he is on Raiden's level who can self destruct and still exist.

Shao Kahn is on another level he invades worlds and conquers them. Akuma is just fighting in an elite tournament not one where gods, shokan, sorcerers, and other worldly elite fighters all take place in.

Meioh_Hades
So, try to use your single brain cell to do something other than trolling.

If all of Gouki's feats of powers are not canon, and Gouki truly has not the power to perform that, why Capcom continues to do such endings for Gouki?

You remind me of Mr.Satan in the Cell game, with his "it's a trick" when the Z warriors do superhuman feats.

So for you Gouki's feats are just "tricks"? He used some bombs and made them explode, to trick us into believing that he's that strong?

quanchi112
Originally posted by Meioh_Hades
So, try to use your single brain cell to do something other than trolling.

If all of Gouki's feats of powers are not canon, and Gouki truly has not the power to perform that, why Capcom continues to do such endings for Gouki?

You remind me of Mr.Satan in the Cell game, with his "it's a trick" when the Z warriors do superhuman feats.

So for you Gouki's feats are just "tricks"? He used some bombs and made them explode, to trick us into believing that he's that strong? I have already explained myself time and time again. Reread my posts I don't care if you and a few others deem it canon without proof there's nothing.

Even if it's within his power he doesn't fight opponents like this he holds back.

Meioh_Hades
So I assume that you've a Scouter like DBZ chars, and know perfectly that when Gouki does a feat he's always using his full power.

You've explained with your attitude and your "proof?" "proof?" that you're just a troll that won't listen to any reason...

Don't cry 'cause even if you prefer MK to Street Fighter, SFvesre has stronger chars.

For example, I prefer Fist of the North Star to Dragon Ball Z, but I've to problem admitting that DBZvesre has stronger chars.

quanchi112
Originally posted by Meioh_Hades
So I assume that you've a Scouter like DBZ chars, and know perfectly that when Gouki does a feat he's always using his full power.

You've explained with your attitude and your "proof?" "proof?" that you're just a troll that won't listen to any reason...

Don't cry 'cause even if you prefer MK to Street Fighter, SFvesre has stronger chars.

For example, I prefer Fist of the North Star to Dragon Ball Z, but I've to problem admitting that DBZvesre has stronger chars. I'm not crying I am asking for proof yet none has been offered. Mk characters have always been portrayed consistently as having awesome strength unlike the street fighter characters imo.

I'd like it to be closer but I don't see them anywhere near as formidable as the mk verse.

Darkstorm Zero
Originally posted by quanchi112
You are suggesting it's canon when has street fighter stated this ending is canon.

If you won't do your research as the OP, then you have no right to be demanding anything.

That said, try looking up SFEC or AAC, 2 sourcebooks that tell you the chain of events, which include the aformentioned island bust.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Then you aren't arguing for Akuma just his powerset based off of a few feats that haven't been proven as canon. The ironic thing is you call me an idiot without a shred of proof just speculation.

*Sigh* and around and around in circles we go....

Quan, IT IS NOT SPECULATION! Do you know know the meaning of that word?! You not accepting canon does not make it so. and it has been proven, COUNTLESS TIMES in many many threads across 7 years, you as the OPer should have done your research.


Originally posted by quanchi112
The game Galactus isn't anywhere near as formidable as his comic counterpart and aren't even canon to their own series. Why would you bring up a feat for shin akuma when this is just akuma ?

Because you want to bring in speculative crap for Shao Kahn and use his non-canon endings, meanwhile not offering a single SHRED of evidence for any of it, and at the same time you want to shoot down the credibility of a well known canon fact for Akuma makes you a hypocrite of the highest order.

Originally posted by quanchi112
I have provided proof of Shao Kahn taking a soul. I never used other endings as proof I just stated it's the same tactic you used since you can't prove akuma's endings are canon ie. have happened.

You have provided proof of nothing except your hypocricy. And no, it's not my tactic, it's me adhering to the forum rules and rejecting your constant delaying stratagem and trolling. And I already DID prove Ryu's ending as canon, your just chosing to ignore chain of events in favour of "No links? no proof" self-policy which is also sniping.

Originally posted by quanchi112
LOL at your wrnings when all you do is bash and get angry. Don' tbe a hypocrite. Shao Kahn has shown tremendous power and that he's on the highest level of mk there is in one on one combat. He has easily stolen souls, rocked various mk fighters with his hammer, has shown the strength to rip through mk fighters with his bare hands, and shown he is on Raiden's level who can self destruct and still exist.

I bashed? I called you an idiot for railroading evidence to suit yourself against forum rules.

No, you have provided not a thing Quan, by your own admission, and none of that proves Kahn can actually tank a multi-meganton PSI level physical hit.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Shao Kahn is on another level he invades worlds and conquers them. Akuma is just fighting in an elite tournament not one where gods, shokan, sorcerers, and other worldly elite fighters all take place in.

Except that titles and such are useless since they don't actually show what a character is capable of. Shouting out "but they are 'GODS' and 'Sorcerers' and other such titles do NOTHING to demonstrate their capabilities.

quanchi112
Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
If you won't do your research as the OP, then you have no right to be demanding anything.

That said, try looking up SFEC or AAC, 2 sourcebooks that tell you the chain of events, which include the aformentioned island bust.



*Sigh* and around and around in circles we go....

Quan, IT IS NOT SPECULATION! Do you know know the meaning of that word?! You not accepting canon does not make it so. and it has been proven, COUNTLESS TIMES in many many threads across 7 years, you as the OPer should have done your research.




Because you want to bring in speculative crap for Shao Kahn and use his non-canon endings, meanwhile not offering a single SHRED of evidence for any of it, and at the same time you want to shoot down the credibility of a well known canon fact for Akuma makes you a hypocrite of the highest order.



You have provided proof of nothing except your hypocricy. And no, it's not my tactic, it's me adhering to the forum rules and rejecting your constant delaying stratagem and trolling. And I already DID prove Ryu's ending as canon, your just chosing to ignore chain of events in favour of "No links? no proof" self-policy which is also sniping.



I bashed? I called you an idiot for railroading evidence to suit yourself against forum rules.

No, you have provided not a thing Quan, by your own admission, and none of that proves Kahn can actually tank a multi-meganton PSI level physical hit.



Except that titles and such are useless since they don't actually show what a character is capable of. Shouting out "but they are 'GODS' and 'Sorcerers' and other such titles do NOTHING to demonstrate their capabilities. You made the claim so the burden of proof is on you not me.

Then it's easy to back up here which you haven't done. Just concede already.

I used canon story mode material for shao Kahn with multiple instances. Not my fault you want to disregard it.

When did you prove Ryu's ending is canon ? Honestly.

When has Akuma ever hit someone with a multilevel psi attack ?

Raiden has already shown he can hang with Shang Tsung and Quan Chi for a limited time, killed Motaro, killed Liu Kang, and come back from a self destructive attack.

The sorcery of mk has enthralled earth before so i'd say it more than speaks for itself.

Tha C-Master
Originally posted by Bro SMASH
Don't be surprised if his Oni Akuma ending has him on DBZ level. laughing out loud Sounds like disdain for SF.

And MK being protrayed as more powerful than SF? You kidding me? laughing

Raiden and Shao Kahn are the only ones who show any higher end power and they get their asses kicked by the likes of Liu Lame and Johnny Cage. Akuma would thrash them hard.

Meioh_Hades
And about the "tremendous strenght" of Shao Kahn... In MKA intro he threw people like ragdolls with an hit of his Wrtah Hammer, but is nowhere comparable to the strenght that Gouki uses in his CANON endings when he destroys islands, mountains, etc.

And the fact that Raiden has to do a self-destructive attack to do something that freakin' CHUN LI can do without killing herself is quite the ultimate proof that SFverse > MKverse.

Darkstorm Zero
Originally posted by quanchi112
You made the claim so the burden of proof is on you not me.

I made a claim? Where?

Originally posted by quanchi112
Then it's easy to back up here which you haven't done. Just concede already.

No, it's me not doing the legwork you SHOULD have done before opening this thread mister OP. If you won't do it, then that basically amounts to you just wanting to say MK wins over SFer, which is both spamming and trolling.

Originally posted by quanchi112
I used canon story mode material for shao Kahn with multiple instances. Not my fault you want to disregard it.

You did? Where? you aluded to endings for Shao Kahn and all but one are non-canon.

Originally posted by quanchi112
When did you prove Ryu's ending is canon ? Honestly.

You have reading comprehension difficulty on top of research deficiency then.

Originally posted by quanchi112
When has Akuma ever hit someone with a multilevel psi attack ?

Uh, any battle where he doesn;t hold back the lions share of his power while still in base form. AKA Bison, Gen, Oro, Gill and Gouken.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Raiden has already shown he can hang with Shang Tsung and Quan Chi for a limited time, killed Motaro, killed Liu Kang, and come back from a self destructive attack.

Can you prove he killed Motaro and Liu? Besides, it's irrelevant. Gouki has killed, and has fought resurrectors before.

Originally posted by quanchi112
The sorcery of mk has enthralled earth before so i'd say it more than speaks for itself.

And I'd say your wanking t's potential to try and cover your ass, besides, where's your "Proof?"

quanchi112
Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
I made a claim? Where?



No, it's me not doing the legwork you SHOULD have done before opening this thread mister OP. If you won't do it, then that basically amounts to you just wanting to say MK wins over SFer, which is both spamming and trolling.



You did? Where? you aluded to endings for Shao Kahn and all but one are non-canon.



You have reading comprehension difficulty on top of research deficiency then.



Uh, any battle where he doesn;t hold back the lions share of his power while still in base form. AKA Bison, Gen, Oro, Gill and Gouken.



Can you prove he killed Motaro and Liu? Besides, it's irrelevant. Gouki has killed, and has fought resurrectors before.



And I'd say your wanking t's potential to try and cover your ass, besides, where's your "Proof?" Oh so now you concede the endings aren't canon. K.

No, I am debating why I feel Mk wins you are acting like it's already been decided street fighter wins and that debate is pointless because the majority here have already decided. Either prove it or concede.

I did that in one post to show you the utter folly and horrible logic that it's in his abilities to do so despite it never occurring canonically.

Insults won't hide the fact you have only speculated his ending is canon.

So every attack in the new upcoming dl content will be a multi psi attack. I look forward to proving you wrong when I play against other fighters as him as he won't be oneshotting anyone.

It's in the story mode of the newest mk. At the end of the game he kills Raiden and during the initial events of mk 3 the invasion he kills Motaro in the latest one.

Which characters has he killed before ?

My proof is in story mode. Not my fault you didn't do your leg work.

Bro SMASH
Originally posted by Tha C-Master
Sounds like disdain for SF.

And MK being protrayed as more powerful than SF? You kidding me? laughing

Raiden and Shao Kahn are the only ones who show any higher end power and they get their asses kicked by the likes of Liu Lame and Johnny Cage. Akuma would thrash them hard.

And Akuma couldn't beat Ryu.

Shao Kahn would trash him hard. roll eyes (sarcastic)

Originally posted by Meioh_Hades
And about the "tremendous strenght" of Shao Kahn... In MKA intro he threw people like ragdolls with an hit of his Wrtah Hammer, but is nowhere comparable to the strenght that Gouki uses in his CANON endings when he destroys islands, mountains, etc.

And the fact that Raiden has to do a self-destructive attack to do something that freakin' CHUN LI can do without killing herself is quite the ultimate proof that SFverse > MKverse.

No it's not. Chun-Li's explosion wasn't even on the same level as Raiden's.

Besides, it was out of desperation to stop Onaga, that's why it was self-destructive. Chun-Li probably would have died without even doing much damage.

Darkstorm Zero
Originally posted by quanchi112
Oh so now you concede the endings aren't canon. K.


Oh quit babbling like a moron Quan, I never conceded anything because I never damn well claimed anything. My report shall be filed with the mods thusly, as you have now proven you are outright trolling.

Originally posted by quanchi112
No, I am debating why I feel Mk wins you are acting like it's already been decided street fighter wins and that debate is pointless because the majority here have already decided. Either prove it or concede.

I did not say who would win in any post Quan.

You have proven nothing anyway.

Originally posted by quanchi112
I did that in one post to show you the utter folly and horrible logic that it's in his abilities to do so despite it never occurring canonically.

No, your trying to snipe legitimate feats, and you showing endings that are non-canon to the MK's main story arcs prove nothing but your own hypocricy.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Insults won't hide the fact you have only speculated his ending is canon.

No, I highlighted a deficiency in your posting. Ryu's ending being the cornerstone of post Alpha 2 story advancement is a well known and established fact as alluded to in Street Fighter Eternal and All About Capcom.

Originally posted by quanchi112
So every attack in the new upcoming dl content will be a multi psi attack. I look forward to proving you wrong when I play against other fighters as him as he won't be oneshotting anyone.

Do you even know what PSI means in the context of this discussion Quan?

Originally posted by quanchi112
It's in the story mode of the newest mk. At the end of the game he kills Raiden and during the initial events of mk 3 the invasion he kills Motaro in the latest one.

Ok, now back it up with proof, and I mean the same proof your demaning from us, youtube clips are not confirmation of canon BTW, as per your own belated logic dictates.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Which characters has he killed before ?

He killed Bison once, and has killed Gill one, and Goutetsu.

Originally posted by quanchi112
My proof is in story mode. Not my fault you didn't do your leg work.

No, your demanding links and other stuff from me, now why don't you lead by example and provide me official statements and links like your asking, otherwise it's your speculation and I can disreguard it according to Quan logic...

See, it hurts to be beaten by your own hypocricy doesn't it?

Zack Fair
Darkstorm thumb up

quanchi112
Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
Oh quit babbling like a moron Quan, I never conceded anything because I never damn well claimed anything. My report shall be filed with the mods thusly, as you have now proven you are outright trolling.



I did not say who would win in any post Quan.

You have proven nothing anyway.



No, your trying to snipe legitimate feats, and you showing endings that are non-canon to the MK's main story arcs prove nothing but your own hypocricy.



No, I highlighted a deficiency in your posting. Ryu's ending being the cornerstone of post Alpha 2 story advancement is a well known and established fact as alluded to in Street Fighter Eternal and All About Capcom.



Do you even know what PSI means in the context of this discussion Quan?



Ok, now back it up with proof, and I mean the same proof your demaning from us, youtube clips are not confirmation of canon BTW, as per your own belated logic dictates.



He killed Bison once, and has killed Gill one, and Goutetsu.



No, your demanding links and other stuff from me, now why don't you lead by example and provide me official statements and links like your asking, otherwise it's your speculation and I can disreguard it according to Quan logic...

See, it hurts to be beaten by your own hypocricy doesn't it? Go ahead and report me while bashing yourself along with it. When you claim akuma has island busting feats that's called a claim. I'd like to see proof of his endings being canon.

Drop the tude, please.

I mentioned in one post that all endings with Shao Kahn in them are game according to your logic that it's within the character's abilities. I never once used these feats as a legitimate argument. I only used feats kahn performed due to continuity from past games or in this one. Your lack of comprehending my actual argument is evident.

If it's well known and accepted as canon then prove it. I don't care if many agree it's this simple can you prove it or can't you ?

Yes.

Youtube clips are forms of proof if they occur within the game. the difference between my points and yours are mine occur in game openings/endings(how they establish the previous games' ending) and in the official story mode which is in continuity from the game. I am not searching for stuff from shao Kahn endings from previous mk games as my only source of proof. I don't even use any of his endings unlike you.

Ok, in which game did he kill Bison ? How do you know this ? This is game only version not any anime.

I already explained story mode is different than a characters ending. This is what happens there's no changing the result of what occurs in story mode but in ladder mode you can have any character win but that doesn't make their ending canon despite your attempts to break the rules with Akuma in that regard.

Darkstorm Zero
Originally posted by quanchi112
Go ahead and report me while bashing yourself along with it. When you claim akuma has island busting feats that's called a claim. I'd like to see proof of his endings being canon.

Drop the tude, please.

And I would like to see proof that you have more than the IQ of a can of pork and beans. I say this because I have already reffereced the souce material 4 goddamn times in these 2 threads alone, nevermind the countless times over the years.

Akuma does have that capability as demonstrated in Ryu's ending and every story cinematic he has featured in ever since.

Drop the ability to both suck and blow at the same time and we can deal.

Originally posted by quanchi112
I mentioned in one post that all endings with Shao Kahn in them are game according to your logic that it's within the character's abilities. I never once used these feats as a legitimate argument. I only used feats kahn performed due to continuity from past games or in this one. Your lack of comprehending my actual argument is evident.

My logic? I ask again, where you pulled that erogenous lump of shit from. Wait a minute... GET YOUR HANDS OUT OF YOUR ASS!

Your lack of argument altogether is the problem, and then having the cheek to demand proof from others compounds your moronic stance on the issue.

Originally posted by quanchi112
If it's well known and accepted as canon then prove it. I don't care if many agree it's this simple can you prove it or can't you ?

....... READ MY POSTS YOU GODDAMN LIAR!

4 times... 4 damn times I told you to go read AAC and SFEC you blind dense person...

Originally posted by quanchi112
Yes.

Amuse me then, what do you think it is?

Originally posted by quanchi112
Youtube clips are forms of proof if they occur within the game. the difference between my points and yours are mine occur in game openings/endings and in the official story mode which is game from the game. I am not searching for stuff from shao Kahn endings from previous mk games as my only source of proof. I don't even use any of his endings unlike you.

The very same thing I damn well posted, a youtube vid of Ryu's ending in A2. I don't care if you use shitty toilet paper, proof is proof, and if it's backed up by statements such as those in-game and by announcements by the developers in SFEC and AAC, then your position has hit the shitpipes faster than that paper mate.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Ok, in which game did he kill Bison ? How do you know this ? This is game only version not any anime.

SF2. because it was alluded to in every game since. and yes, you see it quite clearly before you fight Gouki.

Originally posted by quanchi112
I already explained story mode is different than a characters ending. This is what happens there's no changing the result of what occurs in story mode but in ladder mode you can have any character win but that doesn't make their ending canon despite your attempts to break the rules with Akuma in that regard.

Right, so a game that doesn't have a campaign mode suddenly is non-canon to it's own story in your eyes Quan? My god, thats even more retarded than the crap Addy or gear ever coughed up. I now see why others have real difficulty in dealing with you, your just that "Special".

Tha C-Master
Calm down DSZ, quan is just having some fun...Originally posted by Bro SMASH
And Akuma couldn't beat Ryu.

Shao Kahn would trash him hard. roll eyes (sarcastic)



No it's not. Chun-Li's explosion wasn't even on the same level as Raiden's.

Besides, it was out of desperation to stop Onaga, that's why it was self-destructive. Chun-Li probably would have died without even doing much damage. Ryu beat Akuma?

Ryu is far more impressive than Liu Lame.

quanchi112
Please control yourself this is a debate over fictional characters. I don't insult your intelligence so please respect the difference of opinion and debate respectfully.

By that same logic all of the mk fighters have the abilities for their endings as well but if it doesn't occur it's not canon but still a possible outcome. I do agree Akuma is one of street fighters stronger/more skilled fighters but he isn't punching people with island shattering attacks. The even thought of it is completely ridiculous.

I already have an argument you just because so obsessed when I tried using noncanon ending as well since you seem to think "Akuma" is special but don't you dare use the same criteria for mk it's not allowed.

Then link me and I will do so. I don't want to go on an internet search and never find this supposed proof just link me and we can move on from there.

Try and be serious for a moment and stick to the debate.

If I post an ending from raiden in ladder mode that doesn't make it canon just like a ryu ending isn't canon unless mentioned in the following game's sequence of events.

From what I remember he just tossed him or beat him. Does it ever state or show Bison's death ?

The game has to make clear what's canon you don't need a story mode as mk didn't have one for many games but made it clear with a sequel how the previous one ended.

There's no need for insulting to get your points across. I simply love to debate and if you get frustrated then just walk away. I;m honestly arguing like I always do and am making legitimate points about endings anyways.

Darkstorm Zero
Originally posted by quanchi112
Please control yourself this is a debate over fictional characters. I don't insult your intelligence so please respect the difference of opinion and debate respectfully.

Difference of oppinion? You railroaded this debate with stalling tactics and failing to provide the same level of evidence you demand, and you wanna talk about respect?

Originally posted by quanchi112
By that same logic all of the mk fighters have the abilities for their endings as well but if it doesn't occur it's not canon but still a possible outcome. I do agree Akuma is one of street fighters stronger/more skilled fighters but he isn't punching people with island shattering attacks. The even thought of it is completely ridiculous.

No, the logic is entirely different Quan. I use known plot chain of events which substatiate the feat. What you just said implies that every character killed Bison, or killed Seth or defeated Gill. Not once did I say this was true or what actually happened. I TOLD you, follow the chain of events.

Why is it ridiculous?

Originally posted by quanchi112
I already have an argument you just because so obsessed when I tried using noncanon ending as well since you seem to think "Akuma" is special but don't you dare use the same criteria for mk it's not allowed.

See, this is pissing me off right here. WE OUTRIGHT TOLD YOU IT'S CANON AND PROVIDED SOURCES AS WELL AS INGAME EVIDENCE! Your the one railroading this and trying to snipe legitimate endings to suit yourself.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Then link me and I will do so. I don't want to go on an internet search and never find this supposed proof just link me and we can move on from there.

Paper medium mate, you have to buy it, they are sourcebooks.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Try and be serious for a moment and stick to the debate.

I would if you would stop trolling.

Originally posted by quanchi112
If I post an ending from raiden in ladder mode that doesn't make it canon just like a ryu ending isn't canon unless mentioned in the following game's sequence of events.

Which it has been, in every game since the Satsui No Hadou was introduced as a story arc

Originally posted by quanchi112
From what I remember he just tossed him or beat him. Does it ever state or show Bison's death ?

Yes, he used the Shun Goku Satsu. He didn't throw or beat him up, it was a single move, and he killed Bison with it.

Originally posted by quanchi112
The game has to make clear what's canon you don't need a story mode as mk didn't have one for many games but made it clear with a sequel how the previous one ended.

Which is exactly what SFer does. You not bothering to research is taking it's toll on you.

Originally posted by quanchi112
There's no need for insulting to get your points across. I simply love to debate and if you get frustrated then just walk away. I;m honestly arguing like I always do and am making legitimate points about endings anyways.

There has not been a legitimate thing you've said since the OP Quan... All you have done is snipe and troll. And you doing so while trying to dictate terms and debate at the same time is frankly aggrivating.

quanchi112
Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
Difference of oppinion? You railroaded this debate with stalling tactics and failing to provide the same level of evidence you demand, and you wanna talk about respect?



No, the logic is entirely different Quan. I use known plot chain of events which substatiate the feat. What you just said implies that every character killed Bison, or killed Seth or defeated Gill. Not once did I say this was true or what actually happened. I TOLD you, follow the chain of events.

Why is it ridiculous?



See, this is pissing me off right here. WE OUTRIGHT TOLD YOU IT'S CANON AND PROVIDED SOURCES AS WELL AS INGAME EVIDENCE! Your the one railroading this and trying to snipe legitimate endings to suit yourself.



Paper medium mate, you have to buy it, they are sourcebooks.



I would if you would stop trolling.



Which it has been, in every game since the Satsui No Hadou was introduced as a story arc



Yes, he used the Shun Goku Satsu. He didn't throw or beat him up, it was a single move, and he killed Bison with it.



Which is exactly what SFer does. You not bothering to research is taking it's toll on you.



There has not been a legitimate thing you've said since the OP Quan... All you have done is snipe and troll. And you doing so while trying to dictate terms and debate at the same time is frankly aggrivating. I've already explained the differences in what I have offered as proof and what you have offered as proof.

Like I said even though it stands to reason that is most likely what has occurred we don't take Liu Kang's endings as 100 percent factual despite him winning 4 tournaments. This has derailed the thread enough let's just assume for the sake of argument Akuma's endings stand what does it really prove anyways ?

Akuma doesn't win the tournament so why are his endings canon ?

These books have to be online somewhere.

I am not trolling this is how I debate. I challenge everything you know and make you doubt yourself. That's what it takes to face Quan. Now aside from the joking let's continue this charade.

I have part four when does it establish what happened in the previous game in part 4 ? What am I missing ?

So the game makes it clear he's dead or does he just look ko'd ?

Playing sf4 I see no real references in the game for how the other one ended.

Not trying to troll I debate mainly off of portrayals, abilities, with minor feat wanking here and there.


Let's just assume Akuma's endings count what does it really prove.

Darkstorm Zero
Originally posted by quanchi112
I've already explained the differences in what I have offered as proof and what you have offered as proof.

And what you explained was a huge steaming pile of crap.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Like I said even though it stands to reason that is most likely what has occurred we don't take Liu Kang's endings as 100 percent factual despite him winning 4 tournaments. This has derailed the thread enough let's just assume for the sake of argument Akuma's endings stand what does it really prove anyways ?

First, it was Ryu's ending, not Akuma's. Second, it proves that Akuma physically is beyond his competition by several orders of magnitude.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Akuma doesn't win the tournament so why are his endings canon ?

The feat was in Ryu's ending Quan...

Originally posted by quanchi112
These books have to be online somewhere.

Really? Why is that?

Street Fighter Eternal

All About Capcom

3 seconds of googling it....

Originally posted by quanchi112
I am not trolling this is how I debate. I challenge everything you know and make you doubt yourself. That's what it takes to face Quan. Now aside from the joking let's continue this charade.

So essentially, your admitting to trolling on purpose...

Originally posted by quanchi112
I have part four when does it establish what happened in the previous game in part 4 ? What am I missing ?

Bison's resurrection, Charlie's death, Akuma still trying to force Ryu into using the Satsui No Hadou... Basically everyone who didn't debut in SF4 has the backstory in their intro.

Originally posted by quanchi112
So the game makes it clear he's dead or does he just look ko'd ?

Bison requiring a new body to revive does not make this clear enough for you?

Originally posted by quanchi112
Playing sf4 I see no real references in the game for how the other one ended.

Then you need glasses stronger tha the ones I wear....

Originally posted by quanchi112
Not trying to troll I debate mainly off of portrayals, abilities, with minor feat wanking here and there.

I already explained what you where actually doing. And if portraylas are a part of your debating strategy, then why the unrealistic level of expectation of proof reguarding a well known cornerstone of SFer plot?

Originally posted by quanchi112
Let's just assume Akuma's endings count what does it really prove.

It was not Akuma's ending, it was Ryu's...

quanchi112
Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
And what you explained was a huge steaming pile of crap.



First, it was Ryu's ending, not Akuma's. Second, it proves that Akuma physically is beyond his competition by several orders of magnitude.



The feat was in Ryu's ending Quan...



Really? Why is that?

Street Fighter Eternal

All About Capcom

3 seconds of googling it....



So essentially, your admitting to trolling on purpose...



Bison's resurrection, Charlie's death, Akuma still trying to force Ryu into using the Satsui No Hadou... Basically everyone who didn't debut in SF4 has the backstory in their intro.



Bison requiring a new body to revive does not make this clear enough for you?



Then you need glasses stronger tha the ones I wear....



I already explained what you where actually doing. And if portraylas are a part of your debating strategy, then why the unrealistic level of expectation of proof reguarding a well known cornerstone of SFer plot?



It was not Akuma's ending, it was Ryu's... You tried but failed.

He may be stronger than his competition but he's not unbeatable and at no point is he channeling this amount of power in a vs. match in street fighter or is he portrayed as such.

Did Ryu win that tournament ?

Are these 100 percent canon to the games ?

No, I was joking and even told you as much. Let go of this internet hatred.

Bison creates alternate bodies but I can pop it back in I don't remember him being rezzed.

I thought Bison always made replacement bodies in the chance he needs one.

They each have opening movies but they don't really tell me how it ended.

Because it's the same proof I use for mk and I always have thought the feat type debating is dismissing 99 percent of the portrayal of the character throughout the game.

K.

Meioh_Hades
Originally posted by quanchi112
I challenge everything you know and make you doubt yourself. That's what it takes to face Quan.

LOL, That was good!

The little troll had a delirium of omnipotence!

Originally posted by quanchi112
Did Ryu win that tournament ?


Since SF Alpha was NOT a tournament, Ryu couldn't have won a non-existing tournament. And, for the 1000th time, anyone with a basic knowledge of SF would know that in the 3 SF Alpha games there's no tournament (yay, quanchi112 gave us "PROOF" that he doesn't know anything about SF storyline).

Originally posted by quanchi112
I don't remember him being rezzed.


About Dictator being rezzed. He was rezzed TWICE: between SF Alpha 3 and SF 2, and between SF 2 and SF 4 (hell, just look at his SF 4 cinematic intro: that WAS "Dictator got rezzed by technology"wink.

quanchi112
Originally posted by Meioh_Hades
LOL, That was good!

The little troll had a delirium of omnipotence!



Since SF Alpha was NOT a tournament, Ryu couldn't have won a non-existing tournament. And, for the 1000th time, anyone with a basic knowledge of SF would know that in the 3 SF Alpha games there's no tournament (yay, quanchi112 gave us "PROOF" that he doesn't know anything about SF storyline).



About Dictator being rezzed. He was rezzed TWICE: between SF Alpha 3 and SF 2, and between SF 2 and SF 4 (hell, just look at his SF 4 cinematic intro: that WAS "Dictator got rezzed by technology"wink. Says the guy who responds to an earlier quote to stir something up.

Yes, I get that there have only been tournaments basically for true sequels I just meant part 3 you silly goose.

I will have to rewatch the opening cinema as I don't recall it off hand.

Darkstorm Zero
Originally posted by quanchi112
You tried but failed.

laughing Your delusions are getting worse.

Originally posted by quanchi112
He may be stronger than his competition but he's not unbeatable and at no point is he channeling this amount of power in a vs. match in street fighter or is he portrayed as such.

I didn't claim he is unbeatable. However, it's up to you to prove that Shao Kahn can actually withstand such attacks. And Akuma does portray this power, repeatedly when Game Restrictions are not in place. Which is the defeault setting of any theoretical debate, because game mechanics eschew how a battle would truly play out.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Did Ryu win that tournament ?

Alpha 2 was not a tournament.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Are these 100 percent canon to the games ?

They show what canonically happens within the story setting of Street Fighter as per word of god (AKA the game developers.)

Originally posted by quanchi112
No, I was joking and even told you as much. Let go of this internet hatred.

How do you expect me to act when you come up with lines like the one I quoted at the top of this post?

Originally posted by quanchi112
Bison creates alternate bodies but I can pop it back in I don't remember him being rezzed.

On 2 separate occasions has Bison had to actually use an alternate body, and Gouki was responsable for the death of SF2 Bison, hence why Bison's opening cinematic has bim being revived in a new body in SF4

Originally posted by quanchi112
I thought Bison always made replacement bodies in the chance he needs one.

He did, but has only ever rezzed into a new body twice canonically, once after A3 and once after SF2

Originally posted by quanchi112
They each have opening movies but they don't really tell me how it ended.

Then read the books I mentioned, or even *Shudders* Read Tiamat's plot guide on Game FAQS... (I'm going to regret that...)

Originally posted by quanchi112
Because it's the same proof I use for mk and I always have thought the feat type debating is dismissing 99 percent of the portrayal of the character throughout the game.

Feats are a fairly accurate way to guage a characters capability though, portrayals only tell part of a characters overall capability. Feat Schewing does even more to damage to this complete picture. Besides, Mortal Kombats Canon policy is different from Street Fighters, you cannot disreguard canon policy set by the game developers because a different company has a different canon policy.

quanchi112
Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
laughing Your delusions are getting worse.



I didn't claim he is unbeatable. However, it's up to you to prove that Shao Kahn can actually withstand such attacks. And Akuma does portray this power, repeatedly when Game Restrictions are not in place. Which is the defeault setting of any theoretical debate, because game mechanics eschew how a battle would truly play out.



Alpha 2 was not a tournament.



They show what canonically happens within the story setting of Street Fighter as per word of god (AKA the game developers.)



How do you expect me to act when you come up with lines like the one I quoted at the top of this post?



On 2 separate occasions has Bison had to actually use an alternate body, and Gouki was responsable for the death of SF2 Bison, hence why Bison's opening cinematic has bim being revived in a new body in SF4



He did, but has only ever rezzed into a new body twice canonically, once after A3 and once after SF2



Then read the books I mentioned, or even *Shudders* Read Tiamat's plot guide on Game FAQS... (I'm going to regret that...)



Feats are a fairly accurate way to guage a characters capability though, portrayals only tell part of a characters overall capability. Feat Schewing does even more to damage to this complete picture. Besides, Mortal Kombats Canon policy is different from Street Fighters, you cannot disreguard canon policy set by the game developers because a different company has a different canon policy. My thinking is level headed and quite logical.

You don't use feats like so to debate or I can do just the same as Shao Kahn has shown the ability to soul steal from a safe distance away. When has Akuma shown the ability the protect against this attack ?

When has Akuma ever killed someone with an island busting attack ?

It's like me running around since Shang Tsung downed a chopper with one fireball and screaming Johnny Cage is more durable than a chopper.

Part 3.

But where does it state this those books you linked me to ?

I expect you to control yourself and act accordingly.

I will rewatch it later.

I can probably find the books for free somewhere but I hope it mentioned they are canon in there.

Not trying to disregard it just making it clear an ending from a previous game isn't canon unless the game developers make it evident in the next one or clarify it in some other fashion.

Darkstorm Zero
Originally posted by quanchi112
My thinking is level headed and quite logical.

Oh right, that why you resorted to trying to cheapshot and destroy credibility instead of actually providing evidence.

Originally posted by quanchi112
You don't use feats like so to debate or I can do just the same as Shao Kahn has shown the ability to soul steal from a safe distance away. When has Akuma shown the ability the protect against this attack ?

When has Kahn canonically ever done this? It didn't work on Stryker, who'se only claim to defence was a strong warriors spirit, of which Akuma and most SFers have in spades.

Originally posted by quanchi112
When has Akuma ever killed someone with an island busting attack ?

Uh, never?

That however is beside the point, almost all opponents who fell to Gouki ave been due to SGS. Does that mean we disreguard the feat of him sinking the island altogether? thats retarded.

Originally posted by quanchi112
It's like me running around since Shang Tsung downed a chopper with one fireball and screaming Johnny Cage is more durable than a chopper.

Cage probably is, considering he survived worse. That still doesn't detract from the feat we are discussing does it?

Originally posted by quanchi112
Part 3.

We're not talking about SF3.

Originally posted by quanchi112
But where does it state this those books you linked me to ?

In the character profile sections...

Originally posted by quanchi112
I expect you to control yourself and act accordingly.

Don't type stull that makes me roll my eyes at their audacity and lack of general knowlege and I wouldn't have to babysit you through absolutely everything.

BTW, you still have not answered my earlier question, why didn;t you do your research as the OP of these threads? And while we are on the subject of OP, why didn't you describe the scenarios in the OP as per forum rules? Peach went into great length about not throwing a vs debate together simply by stating "Who Wins".

Originally posted by quanchi112
I will rewatch it later.

Good.

Originally posted by quanchi112
I can probably find the books for free somewhere but I hope it mentioned they are canon in there.

Read the disclaimers and the interviews at the back of the books, then read the information in the character profile sections, and then read it cover to cover.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Not trying to disregard it just making it clear an ending from a previous game isn't canon unless the game developers make it evident in the next one or clarify it in some other fashion.

Which it has, many times over. Most endings are not official, but using your brain and the information we have provided, you can see what happens via Chain Of Events, and when the next game comes out, plotpoints are easily established both in game, and in the sequels. SFA2 has had... what 4 official sequels now?

quanchi112
Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
Oh right, that why you resorted to trying to cheapshot and destroy credibility instead of actually providing evidence.



When has Kahn canonically ever done this? It didn't work on Stryker, who'se only claim to defence was a strong warriors spirit, of which Akuma and most SFers have in spades.



Uh, never?

That however is beside the point, almost all opponents who fell to Gouki ave been due to SGS. Does that mean we disreguard the feat of him sinking the island altogether? thats retarded.



Cage probably is, considering he survived worse. That still doesn't detract from the feat we are discussing does it?



We're not talking about SF3.



In the character profile sections...



Don't type stull that makes me roll my eyes at their audacity and lack of general knowlege and I wouldn't have to babysit you through absolutely everything.

BTW, you still have not answered my earlier question, why didn;t you do your research as the OP of these threads? And while we are on the subject of OP, why didn't you describe the scenarios in the OP as per forum rules? Peach went into great length about not throwing a vs debate together simply by stating "Who Wins".



Good.



Read the disclaimers and the interviews at the back of the books, then read the information in the character profile sections, and then read it cover to cover.



Which it has, many times over. Most endings are not official, but using your brain and the information we have provided, you can see what happens via Chain Of Events, and when the next game comes out, plotpoints are easily established both in game, and in the sequels. SFA2 has had... what 4 official sequels now? I did provide evidence and canon events in mk. Yours is still mainly a theory.

He did so in the latest game on Shang Tsung. He didn't specifically seek out Stryker it was mainly an attack that decimated the population whereas he used it right on Shang to take his soul.

The feat is about as consistent as Shang's fireball downing a chopper. It's nice window dressing but not something to take seriously in a vs. debate.

Most feats don't link up with the games and are inconsistent.

K.

K.


I've been here before and I don't recall this.

Still not definitively proven just likely to have occurred or something similar.

Insomnia1234
I think... no...
Why am I thinking?
The answer is obvious... Akuma can turn Shao Kahn into a bloodpool in a heartbeat.

quanchi112
Originally posted by Insomnia1234
I think... no...
Why am I thinking?
The answer is obvious... Akuma can turn Shao Kahn into a bloodpool in a heartbeat. Based on ?

Meioh_Hades
Based on Gouki's feats, who are far more impressive than Shao Kahn's one.

quanchi112
Originally posted by Meioh_Hades
Based on Gouki's feats, who are far more impressive than Shao Kahn's one. What has he done which is more impressive than soul sucking modern day earth ?

Meioh_Hades
In MK 2011 we have seen that "soul sucking modern day earth" was NOT Shao Kahn's feat, but a long and complex ritual that Quan Chi tired to do (and he was interrupted by Nightwolf).

quanchi112
Originally posted by Meioh_Hades
In MK 2011 we have seen that "soul sucking modern day earth" was NOT Shao Kahn's feat, but a long and complex ritual that Quan Chi tired to do (and he was interrupted by Nightwolf). Not the first time around though. These events were all changed by Raiden. LOL.

I don't even think the character existed at the time of mk 3 in sub zero mythologies so yeah I'm right as per the norm.

Meioh_Hades
"I'm right as per the norm"

LOL... Quite full of yourself, little troll! You don't ever see that everyone here think that you're just a MK fanboy that can't accept that there are 'verses more powerful than the MK one.

And btw... Why Shao Kahn NEVER stolen a soul of someone more powerful than a normal being? And in MK3 intro is explained that Kahn SLOWLY transformed Earth intro a part of Outworld, claiming normal people's souls. So, a long ritual like that is not a thing that can be useful in an actual battle, or else he would simply suck the souls of Liu Kang, Kung Lao, etc. with a snap of his fingers, instead of fight them and get his ass kicked.

And what he did to Shang tsung in MK 2011 doesn't count: Shang Tsung already sold his soul to the Emperor, in exchange of greater powers. Basically Shao Kahn gave Shang Tsung a vast portion of his powers, and could get them back (and he actually did that to empower Sindel).

quanchi112
Originally posted by Meioh_Hades
"I'm right as per the norm"

LOL... Quite full of yourself, little troll! You don't ever see that everyone here think that you're just a MK fanboy that can't accept that there are 'verses more powerful than the MK one.

And btw... Why Shao Kahn NEVER stolen a soul of someone more powerful than a normal being? And in MK3 intro is explained that Kahn SLOWLY transformed Earth intro a part of Outworld, claiming normal people's souls. So, a long ritual like that is not a thing that can be useful in an actual battle, or else he would simply suck the souls of Liu Kang, Kung Lao, etc. with a snap of his fingers, instead of fight them and get his ass kicked.

And what he did to Shang tsung in MK 2011 doesn't count: Shang Tsung already sold his soul to the Emperor, in exchange of greater powers. Basically Shao Kahn gave Shang Tsung a vast portion of his powers, and could get them back (and he actually did that to empower Sindel). Yes, a ritual was used to drain an entire planet of billions of souls which is an amazing feat.

Also Shao Kahn drained Shang Tsung's soul in the game and amped Sindel in that fashion thus proving he can easily do so to Akuma.

He also begged for his life against Shao Kahn after his first defeat not hand over his soul. It's Shang Tsung's power to consume souls to maintain his youth/optimum power.

It's the same thing like Ermac blowing up Jax's arms despite it being in a cinema he can't actually do so in a mk matchup despite having the power to. LOL.

Shao Kahn stole Tsung's soul a soul stealer himself when he wanted to in combat so I'm right and you're wrong just like I initially said.

Also the same logic for your Shao Kahn reasoning can be used against you. Why doesn't Akuma easily defeat his foes due to his superior striking power since he's an island buster, hmmmm ?

Meioh_Hades
I just explained why Shang Tsung soul drain is not valid.

He couldn't do it to anyone besides Shang Tsung (the Emperor easilly drained Shang Tsung's soul, 'cause the sorcerer already gave him his own soul). I say that 'cause, if Shao Kahn could easilly drained the soul of another fighter, he would have drained Liu Kang's one, instead of get his ass kicked by the Shaolin Monk. And remember that Gouki's spirit is VERY strong (or esle his own soul would have been already consumed by his own powers).

And about Gouki... He didn't easilly defeat his opponents when he fights against chars that are TRULY strong, like Gouken. And he didn't just stomped Ryu 'cause he was intrigued with the boy's potential.

Allankles
Originally posted by BloodRain
Boulder lifting > arm ripping.

He made a fair point about guys like Ermac. His combat viable TK would make minced meat out of a lot of people in many game verses.

Allankles
Originally posted by Meioh_Hades
And about the "tremendous strenght" of Shao Kahn... In MKA intro he threw people like ragdolls with an hit of his Wrtah Hammer, but is nowhere comparable to the strenght that Gouki uses in his CANON endings when he destroys islands, mountains, etc.

And the fact that Raiden has to do a self-destructive attack to do something that freakin' CHUN LI can do without killing herself is quite the ultimate proof that SFverse > MKverse.

Ehh! That's going too far while some SF characters are up there, their verse isn't on the same level overall as MK. In terms of stakes the MK verse is way more epic than SF.

Frisky Dingo
Originally posted by Allankles
He made a fair point about guys like Ermac. His combat viable TK would make minced meat out of a lot of people in many game verses. There are people in SF who also have TK.Originally posted by Allankles
Ehh! That's going too far while some SF characters are up there, their verse isn't on the same level overall as MK. In terms of stakes the MK verse is way more epic than SF.

You may be right about "stakes" but as far as the power level of the casts, per character and overall. SF comes out on top by a noticeable margin.

Tha C-Master
Well MK tends to have more of the "take over the world" storyline, SF has the more powerful characters. Many just want to get stronger in SF, except for the likes of Bison and Seth, who *do* want to take over the world. The story just doesn't focus on it much. SF has numerous stories going on at once where MK focuses on one big story. So it does seem more "epic" that way.

quanchi112
Originally posted by Meioh_Hades
I just explained why Shang Tsung soul drain is not valid.

He couldn't do it to anyone besides Shang Tsung (the Emperor easilly drained Shang Tsung's soul, 'cause the sorcerer already gave him his own soul). I say that 'cause, if Shao Kahn could easilly drained the soul of another fighter, he would have drained Liu Kang's one, instead of get his ass kicked by the Shaolin Monk. And remember that Gouki's spirit is VERY strong (or esle his own soul would have been already consumed by his own powers).

And about Gouki... He didn't easilly defeat his opponents when he fights against chars that are TRULY strong, like Gouken. And he didn't just stomped Ryu 'cause he was intrigued with the boy's potential. When did Shang Tsung give him his soul ? When ?

It never occurred to my knowledge and Shang and Quan defeated a clone of Shao Kahn before. They also met on the battlefield of armageddon and Shang didn't have his soul drained.


That's not how games work. Plus I feel it would violate the rules of the tournament anyways.

Despite ermac tking someone's arm off he doesn't do that in typical fights but still has the ability in a vs. match.

I don't see Ryu ever dreaming of beating Liu Kang either or anyone in street fighter for that matter. Akuma might be the only one capable of beating him and I don't see it happening there either.

Meioh_Hades
From Shang Tsung MKA bio:

"In an instant, Raiden's blast destroyed us all! Our souls intertwined, we did battle in the ether. But I was drawn away by a magic more powerful than death. My essence returned to Outworld, where I found myself face to face with Shao Kahn! He was alive! Quan Chi and I had slain him in his fortress -- or so we thought. Yet here he stood. At his side was the Shokan prince, Goro! My ghostly visage startled them at first, but Shao Kahn knew what had transpired. Long ago I HAD PLEDGED MY SOUL TO THE EMPEROR. That pledge was binding even beyond death. But if he were to die, so too would those who served him. At the time I believed it to be merely another empty vow, yet here I am. My soul has returned from beyond to rejoin Shao Kahn."

And, from Shang Tsung's MK 2011 bio:

"Originally from Earthrealm, Shang Tsung's magical abilities led him to discover the realm of Outworld. There he fell in league with its ruler, Shao Kahn, and pledged his life to him in return for enhanced power. He is now bound to the emperor by powerful dark magic."

That's why Shang Tsung victories in the MK Tournament "belonged" to the Outworld, and not Earthrealm. If you remember, in MKD Conquest mode, Bo Rai Cho stated that he couldn't fight in the MK Tournament, 'cause he's from Outworld. So, even if he's a good guy, his victory would have been an Outworld victory.

quanchi112
Originally posted by Meioh_Hades
From Shang Tsung MKA bio:

"In an instant, Raiden's blast destroyed us all! Our souls intertwined, we did battle in the ether. But I was drawn away by a magic more powerful than death. My essence returned to Outworld, where I found myself face to face with Shao Kahn! He was alive! Quan Chi and I had slain him in his fortress -- or so we thought. Yet here he stood. At his side was the Shokan prince, Goro! My ghostly visage startled them at first, but Shao Kahn knew what had transpired. Long ago I HAD PLEDGED MY SOUL TO THE EMPEROR. That pledge was binding even beyond death. But if he were to die, so too would those who served him. At the time I believed it to be merely another empty vow, yet here I am. My soul has returned from beyond to rejoin Shao Kahn."

And, from Shang Tsung's MK 2011 bio:

"Originally from Earthrealm, Shang Tsung's magical abilities led him to discover the realm of Outworld. There he fell in league with its ruler, Shao Kahn, and pledged his life to him in return for enhanced power. He is now bound to the emperor by powerful dark magic."

That's why Shang Tsung victories in the MK Tournament "belonged" to the Outworld, and not Earthrealm. If you remember, in MKD Conquest mode, Bo Rai Cho stated that he couldn't fight in the MK Tournament, 'cause he's from Outworld. So, even if he's a good guy, his victory would have been an Outworld victory. Ok.

But wasn't it always Goro winning the mk tournaments until Liu Kang dethroned him. Shang Tsung might have been hosting the tourneys but it was still Goro winning them.

I hated the lack of bios for armaggedon and then when they finally released them they stopped after about 10 or so in.

Darkstorm Zero
No, at least not entirely.

From what I remember of the original MKI script, Shang was the champion much earlier, and had lost to the original Kung Lao, then, at the next tournament, Original Kung Lao was killed by Goro.

Zack Fair
Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
No, at least not entirely.

From what I remember of the original MKI script, Shang was the champion much earlier, and had lost to the original Kung Lao, then, at the next tournament, Original Kung Lao was killed by Goro.

thumb up

Meioh_Hades
Yes, we don't know how many MK tournaments Shang Tsung won, but at least once he WAS a MK champion.

Then he become one of the three Grandmasters of the tournament after the "mysterious" death of one of those three, and over the years he become the only Grandmaster, corrupting the tournament.

quanchi112
Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
No, at least not entirely.

From what I remember of the original MKI script, Shang was the champion much earlier, and had lost to the original Kung Lao, then, at the next tournament, Original Kung Lao was killed by Goro. Correct but the outworld domination began after Goro won and kept winning.

Darkstorm Zero
Goro's Reign wasn't the first.

quanchi112
Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
Goro's Reign wasn't the first. Didn't say it was. It has been the longest documented outworld domination.

Darkstorm Zero
I'm not entirely sure about that either. It's unknown who won the Edenia MKs for Outworld, but I would assume that Goro would be too young at the time, so someone had to have had 1 more MK Belt total than Goro's reign.

Meioh_Hades
IIRC in MK1 intro Goro is stated to be 2,000 years old.

Since Shao Kahn conquest of Edenia was about 10,000 years ago, Goro couldn't be the MK champion.

Maybe it was Shao Kahn himself who won 10 MK tournaments in a row, and was able to conquer Edenia.

In MK 2011 we discovered that Sindel committed suicide to prevent Shao Kahn to prevent Shao Kahn to set foot on Earthrealm. Maybe that also prevented Shao Kahn himself to compete in MK tournaments held in Earthrealm.

quanchi112
Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
I'm not entirely sure about that either. It's unknown who won the Edenia MKs for Outworld, but I would assume that Goro would be too young at the time, so someone had to have had 1 more MK Belt total than Goro's reign. Irrelevant as we know Goro's reign is the longest we know which is a fact at this point.

Darkstorm Zero
If we know it for a fact, and we know Goro's reign did end up with Earths conquest, then no, Goro's reign was not the longest. Maybe for Earth MKs it is, but it's not THE longest.

Ridley_Prime
IIRC, Shang Tsung's reign (during his original youth) was as long as Goro's. He won 9 MK tournaments (needing just one more victory for Shao Kahn to take over earthrealm), but was defeated by the Great Kung Lao. On that same token, Goro won 9 tournaments when Tsung was hosting them (after the death of Great Kung Lao) but was then defeated by Liu Lame on the 10th. Thus earthrealm was saved by the skin of its teeth once more..

Don't know what y'all are trying to get at with any of this though. Doesn't exactly change the outcome of who would win in this match between Akuma and Shao Kahn.

quanchi112
Originally posted by Ridley_Prime
IIRC, Shang Tsung's reign (during his original youth) was as long as Goro's. He won 9 MK tournaments (needing just one more victory for Shao Kahn to take over earthrealm), but was defeated by the Great Kung Lao. On that same token, Goro won 9 tournaments when Tsung was hosting them (after the death of Great Kung Lao) but was then defeated by Liu Lame on the 10th. Thus earthrealm was saved by the skin of its teeth once more..

Don't know what y'all are trying to get at with any of this though. Doesn't exactly change the outcome of who would win in this match between Akuma and Shao Kahn. When was this stated that Shang Tsung won 9 tourneys ?

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
If we know it for a fact, and we know Goro's reign did end up with Earths conquest, then no, Goro's reign was not the longest. Maybe for Earth MKs it is, but it's not THE longest. Whose reign was longer ?

Meioh_Hades
Edenia lost ten MK tournaments against Outworld, enabling Shao Kahn to invade and conquer Edenia.

We don't know who was the MK Champion for the "Outworld vs Edenia" MK tournaments, but if is the same fighter (IMHO it could have been Shao Kahn himself), it must have won 10 tournaments. So a longer streak than Goro.

quanchi112
Originally posted by Meioh_Hades
Edenia lost ten MK tournaments against Outworld, enabling Shao Kahn to invade and conquer Edenia.

We don't know who was the MK Champion for the "Outworld vs Edenia" MK tournaments, but if is the same fighter (IMHO it could have been Shao Kahn himself), it must have won 10 tournaments. So a longer streak than Goro. That's why I said the longest reigning mk champion we know of. You speculate which means you don't know.

Innominate__1
No one knows really.. But who cares? What was the outcome who can beat who? I'd say since shao kahn is more adept in the black arts (black magic) he can pull some weird crap out of his ass... Does some pretty powerful crap too (not strength feat wise more like supernatural soul ripping related stuff) and is said to be on par with raiden if i remember correctly...

Darkstorm Zero
But Akuma has a soul "Destroying" attack, something Kahn does not have.

Innominate__1
Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
But Akuma has a soul "Destroying" attack, something Kahn does not have.

True, though kahn opened up a portal, invaded earthrealm, (defying the rules) and in trilogy netherrealm (which explains scorpion and noob saibot) and started ripping people's souls out.. Millions of them... Something i've yet to see akuma do...

Ridley_Prime
That's not something Kahn can replicate here though, nor is it a solo feat. That took a shitload of time and prep on his part along with Quan Chi doing that ritual in MK9, and the soul ripping of earthrealm didn't work on anyone with the slightest bit of resistance.

Innominate__1
Slightest bit of resistance huh? well i mean sure.. So how long did the ''ritual'' take? Still whether he can do a ''mass soul steal'' or not quickly, is an unanswered question... But kahn like shang tsung can steal souls out of people (yes i know, only if he defeats them..) but he's got the battle experience, sorcery exp., and possibly same strength... So like i've read before, kahn's had his losses and wins but regardless... He's strong.... Not as strong as akuma (physically) but in other feats (supernatural and magical) pretty impressive... It's why he's a boss character....

cdtm
Originally posted by Innominate__1
...and is said to be on par with raiden if i remember correctly...

Well, the basis of MK9 is Shao Kahn killing him in combat, forcing him to contact his past self with important information before he died, right?

Innominate__1
Originally posted by cdtm
Well, the basis of MK9 is Shao Kahn killing him in combat, forcing him to contact his past self with important information before he died, right?

I think you're right... So with THAT said... It just goes to show that shao kahn can take on and beat raiden, so he must be pretty strong.. Raiden's a thunder god...

Darkstorm Zero
Titles argument is creeping in again....

The Kahn that beat Raiden then was infused with Blaze's essence.

And 2, the term God doesn't denote extra power.

Innominate__1
It doesn't? Oh well aren't we all just mistaken then?? stick out tongue and sure it might be just a ''title'' but we should remember raiden imprisoned shinnok (who carries the title of a god but it's only a title apparantley) for about thousands of years... Not only that he's pretty much immortal (since he just reconstructs himself on earth once he's dead or whatever) and sure shao kahn had to fight against blaze and his ''godlike powers'' but he still managed to beat him... I forget whether it's before or after he fights raiden, but anyway, he's obviously able to go toe to toe with very strong opponents, i think he'd be able to hold his own (physically) against akuma...

Darkstorm Zero
I didn't say that the title itself was wrong, but your correlating it with some added ability... is Gill a "God?" Is Galactus a "God?" No? Well what abut those "Gods" Kratos fights? "Gods" and "Devils" being defeated by mortals in fiction proves that the title of God is just that, a title. It's used more as a descriptor, or a self claimed title than actually meaning anything in it's own right.

The only actual gods are the ones with TRUE Omnipotence, Omniscience, are Omnipresent, and cannot be destroyed by any means. THAT is what a God is, and not some superpowered being who functions barely at the level of metahumans at best.

Innominate__1
Ok so what..? Dieties? Better for u? Does it matter honestley...? The ''title'' is just that but it is also because of the level they're in... Akuma's in such a level isn't he? I'm not saying they're omni-anything, just calling them that because of the feats they do ( you lov feats u oughtta know) smile u know... ''godlike feats'' resurrection, supernatural ability, semi-immortality.. Something regular humas don't posses... So if a being like kahn can take on said extraordinary ''gods'' then... Why not akuma? like i've stated before... Akuma's more skilled as a martial artist.. But kahn's fought wars, raided realms, ripped out souls from a distance (though it might've been a cermony or ritual or something as previously stated), took on raiden (who in the story is referred to as a thunder-god guardian of earthrealm.. More importantly, personification of lightning!!) then... Well, dare i say it, he might stand a chance against akuma... smile

Darkstorm Zero
Originally posted by Innominate__1
Ok so what..? Dieties? Better for u? Does it matter honestley...? The ''title'' is just that but it is also because of the level they're in... Akuma's in such a level isn't he? I'm not saying they're omni-anything, just calling them that because of the feats they do ( you lov feats u oughtta know) smile u know... ''godlike feats'' resurrection, supernatural ability, semi-immortality.. Something regular humas don't posses... So if a being like kahn can take on said extraordinary ''gods'' then... Why not akuma? like i've stated before... Akuma's more skilled as a martial artist.. But kahn's fought wars, raided realms, ripped out souls from a distance (though it might've been a cermony or ritual or something as previously stated), took on raiden (who in the story is referred to as a thunder-god guardian of earthrealm.. More importantly, personification of lightning!!) then... Well, dare i say it, he might stand a chance against akuma... smile

No, what I dislike is using the connotations like "A defeated a "God/Devil/Deiety/whatever title you wish" therefore he must trump B". It's a bullshit attempt to cover up deficiencies of proof. The fact is, IT DOES NOT MATTER WHAT THEY ARE CALLED, If they do not have the capabilities to beat the opposition, then they do not beat the opposition. A>B>C logic is faulty for this very reason.

Innominate__1
A>B>C logic...?? Hm... Kinda like island punch>greater than lots of other feats out there concluding>akuma doing said punch just wins...?? You know what i hate? Hypocrisy, seriously... Why can't defeating a ''god'' be a feat?? I mean gees an island won't defend itself or dodge an attack that can sink it... A ''god'' might... But hey... That doesn't mean anything right? But ok so then when kahn fought raiden he was fighting ''someone'' (will try not to use god) who is somewhat a diety that seems immortal and has alot of power/control over the natural force of lightning and electricity (both are pretty much the same) and managed to defeat him... Or before him he was able to defeat blaze who's ''godlike powers'' don't mean squat apparantley... will lose to akuma? Who's powers seem just a bit below the other 2 imo... Idk... I don't see the logic...

stargun
Featwise Akuma is more powerful than any fighter in MK, and this includes the said ''god of thunder'' Raiden.

Demonic Phoenix
Not One Being Onaga vin

stargun
^I meant to say playable characters only.

Innominate__1
Originally posted by stargun
Featwise Akuma is more powerful than any fighter in MK, and this includes the said ''god of thunder'' Raiden.

Yes when it's feats of strength but anyone will tell you strength alone won't win a fight.. Plus, if anything having alot of power seems more favorable then strength... here's one thing ''the god of thunder'' raiden has been able to pull off that akuma hasn't? Resurrection... smile so how is that akuma'll win? By throwning many island sinking punches srriking him only so he can ressurect? at this rate you guys will make it seem that akuma will be able to even challange the elder gods and be victorious!! (In your very weird and disturbing dreams) akuma's still a human who trained alot and embraced the dark hadou power crap (from what i gather) strong as he is rayden and kahn are more adept in supernatural power feats... So what? Is akuma immune to those as well? smile

Tha C-Master
Gill resurrects. Gouki beat him. Akuma has strength, speed, power, warping, projectiles.

Shinnok was beaten by Johnny Cage. The gods in the series aren't unstoppable in feats. They get more hype from narration than anything.

Darkstorm Zero
Originally posted by Innominate__1
Yes when it's feats of strength but anyone will tell you strength alone won't win a fight.. Plus, if anything having alot of power seems more favorable then strength...

Oh, I don't think so mate, there are a few other factors Akuma has over his opponent, skill, actual combat techniques, and akuma does have many powers at his disposal. As I said, for all of Kahn's necromancy and soul manipulation, Akuma has soul "Destroying" capability, which is superior to simply soul posession that Kahn employs. Not to mention thats all still backed up bu far more destructive feats that anything Kahn has accomplished in an actual battle.

Originally posted by Innominate__1
here's one thing ''the god of thunder'' raiden has been able to pull off that akuma hasn't? Resurrection... smile so how is that akuma'll win? By throwning many island sinking punches srriking him only so he can ressurect?

The need to Resurrect proves that Akuma can, not only kill him, but do it repeatedly. Akuma has dealt with resurrectors before, as C-Master pointed out above.

Originally posted by Innominate__1
at this rate you guys will make it seem that akuma will be able to even challange the elder gods and be victorious!! (In your very weird and disturbing dreams) akuma's still a human who trained alot and embraced the dark hadou power crap (from what i gather) strong as he is rayden and kahn are more adept in supernatural power feats... So what? Is akuma immune to those as well? smile

Prove they work on someone as strong willed and bodied as Akuma is then. Your snide remarks prove your being bias BTW. Nobody said he'd challenge the Elder Gods.

Innominate__1
Well the fact that he ripped off the souls of the entire population (intro to mk3) and it wasn't that they were strong willed.. Raiden protected those souls from being taken... Kinda like ''his team of guardians of earth''... Plus if you read scorpion's bio from Ultimate MK3 it is stated that shao kahn opened a portal into the netherealm as well... And as for johnny cage defeating shinnk? I think you mean lui kang (MK4) in MKA the ''shinnok'' fighting johnny is actually his clone... I beleive he can pretty much rip akuma's soul... In terms of fighting ability akuma's got more... But as far as feats... I'd say shao kahn... Though they are more magical and/or supernatural in nature smile

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