Doctor Chanard vs. Pinhead

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quanchi112
Chanard is the mad cenobite doctor who killed Pinhead in hellraiser 2 hellbound. Somehow he gets resurrected after the events of helraiser 3 when Pinhead is back to his normal torturing self. They meet in the Labyrinth. Just one on one who wins this time ?

Impediment
Pinhead is an angel/demon.


I think he takes it.

BruceSkywalker
Pinhead says "Time to play" as chains rip Chanard to pieces

the ninjak
Chanard wins again if his is connected to the spire monster.

Alone he has just as much a chance to beat Pinhead. They're both people who got filtered through the cube and came out Cenobites.

Originally posted by Impediment
Pinhead is an angel/demon.


I think he takes it.
Nah Pinhead is an explorer whose dark nature was brought out and made flesh.

Chanard was a masochistic psyche doctor. Much more potential than an explorer. I bet Charnard become a higher level of being and let the Cenobites he defeated come back and play.

Chanard 10/10.

quanchi112
Originally posted by the ninjak
Chanard wins again if his is connected to the spire monster.

Alone he has just as much a chance to beat Pinhead. They're both people who got filtered through the cube and came out Cenobites.


Nah Pinhead is an explorer whose dark nature was brought out and made flesh.

Chanard was a masochistic psyche doctor. Much more potential than an explorer. I bet Charnard become a higher level of being and let the Cenobites he defeated come back and play.

Chanard 10/10. You really think Chanard can beat him again ?
I also think Pinhead is by far the greatest cenobite ever. Chanard really had timing on his side when he confronted Pinhead.

the ninjak
Originally posted by quanchi112
You really think Chanard can beat him again ?
I also think Pinhead is by far the greatest cenobite ever. Chanard really had timing on his side when he confronted Pinhead.

Yeah Chanard would win again he was just a perfect candidate for becoming a Cenobite. Perfect.

quanchi112
Originally posted by the ninjak
Yeah Chanard would win again he was just a perfect candidate for becoming a Cenobite. Perfect. On commentary they stated the only reason chanard won is because pinhead had just been spiritually weakened by those photos. I think Pinhead from part 3 and on would crush Chanard personally.

the ninjak
Those feats were on Earth.

This fight is in the labyrinth. A place Chanard adapted to and dominated almost instantly.

quanchi112
Originally posted by the ninjak
Those feats were on Earth.

This fight is in the labyrinth. A place Chanard adapted to and dominated almost instantly. Chanard was truly evil whereas Pinhead just reconnected and remembered his human life. Imagine finding out your parents died right before you were going to box a rival. You wouldn't be at your best and neither was Pinhead which is confirmed by the guys who filmed it.

Now I admit had Pinhead not become the huge face of the franchise maybe this comment might not have never been made but it does make perfect sense.

Pinhead seems unhurtable throughout all the films save his depowering and when he finally dies in bloodline. Chanard on the other hand can be easily ripped apart.

the ninjak
Cenobites don't truly die though. They just continue to exist in the cube.

Actually Pinhead could only be killed by a powerful supernova big bang machine. At the end of Hellraiser 4. The best film.

So this fight really is a stalemate. Pinhead wins a franchise fight obviously. But Chanard represented everything the cube wanted in a candidate.

quanchi112
Originally posted by the ninjak
Cenobites don't truly die though. They just continue to exist in the cube.

Actually Pinhead could only be killed by a powerful supernova big bang machine. At the end of Hellraiser 4. The best film.

So this fight really is a stalemate. Pinhead wins a franchise fight obviously. But Chanard represented everything the cube wanted in a candidate. Yes, the new configuration at the end of bloodline. I loved that one but Pinhead's best lines were from 1 and 2. I am kinda partial to 2 if I had to pick a favorite with Bloodline at a very close second.

I still see Chanard's death at the end of the film as something Pinhead can do in his sleep whereas I don't see Chanard depowering him like he did outside right after he saw that picture of himself.

the ninjak
True.
though Chanard only had a day in Cubeworld to do what he did. Which was epic.

If Chanard had enough time to adapt. Time that Pinhead had I'll give it to him.

quanchi112
Originally posted by the ninjak
True.
though Chanard only had a day in Cubeworld to do what he did. Which was epic.

If Chanard had enough time to adapt. Time that Pinhead had I'll give it to him. I did think Chanard was the greatest hellraiser character save Pinhead. Too bad it seems the franchise is dead save a remake or two. When they started doing the direct to video release it just got plain terrible. I haven't even seen the last one or 2.

the ninjak
I refuse to watch any after 4 as well.

quanchi112
Originally posted by the ninjak
I refuse to watch any after 4 as well. Yeah, after 4 the series completely sucked.

AxelSalvatore
Just remember if Dr. Chanard had the chance to adapt like pinhead did he still would be out powered as the fact while he adapts pinhead would just get stronger pinhead is leviathans favorite cenobite for a reason dr. Chanard Was just a psychopathic dr. That wanted to expierence and learn hell secrets and such in my opinion he will never amount to pinhead had he not seen that picture and remembered his humanity Chanard would have never been able to de-power him or kill him or his cenobites

HorrorMovies
Originally posted by the ninjak
Chanard wins again if his is connected to the spire monster.

Alone he has just as much a chance to beat Pinhead. They're both people who got filtered through the cube and came out Cenobites.


Nah Pinhead is an explorer whose dark nature was brought out and made flesh.

Chanard was a masochistic psyche doctor. Much more potential than an explorer. I bet Charnard become a higher level of being and let the Cenobites he defeated come back and play.

Chanard 10/10.

I know this thread is old, but I just wanted to say, that Doctor from Hellraiser 2 was nothing more than Laviathans right hand puppet, he was being manipulated by Laviathan.

It was confirmed by the movie makers Pinhead was weakened due to the fact he committed the sin of rememberance. Doctor Channard went against a depowered Pinhead more than anything. You can tell Pinhead was depowered due to the less amount of chains he was using, It wouldn't have to be an unbound Pinhead, Pinhead from Hellraiser 1 would of torn the shit out of the doctor.....

Pinhead couldn't access a lot of leathal weapons at the point where he was weakened due to the fact he betrayed hell and he had the doctor in pain for a little bit as shown in the movie... If Kirtsty hadn't of shown Pinhead that picture, the doctor would of gotten murdered by Pinhead.... Keep in mind, Pinhead can also mind rape him with illusions.

Moving on, Unbound Pinhead from Hellraiser 3 was way too unstoppable, he was able to turn other humans into Cenobites and he reality warped a city... Pinhead has much higher feats that put him over the doctor...

Pinhead murders the doctor effortlessly and quickly.

HorrorMovies
Originally posted by the ninjak
Cenobites don't truly die though. They just continue to exist in the cube.

Actually Pinhead could only be killed by a powerful supernova big bang machine. At the end of Hellraiser 4. The best film.

So this fight really is a stalemate. Pinhead wins a franchise fight obviously. But Chanard represented everything the cube wanted in a candidate.

Also that wasn't a big bang machine Pinhead died in. That was a huge puzzle box configuration that he blew up in while in space.

Steve98732
Well I think Channard wins against a full power Pinhead anyway, since the Dr. was connected directly to Leviathan. (Better weapons, more resistance to cenobite attacks? - passed along maybe from Leviathan to the Dr through the connecting tube?)


Also, there is this, from the Hellraiser wiki:

(When the 3 cenobites fight Dr. Channard:"This meant that they disobeyed the agenda of Hell and could no longer be trusted, thusly, Deepthroat, Butterball, Chatterer and Pinhead were systematically terminated by the Doctor with little difficulty. "wink


So I think if Pinhead was at full power he still would lose, Channard would still ''suffer'' from the cenobite's attacks with some vulnerability, but the Dr. would just counter the chain attacks like before. (And shoot the sticks out of his hand).


Channard wins a simple fight on account of being directly connected to the creator of the cenobites. But in the end it's like ninjak says, they don't die.

Steve98732
Maybe in the plot Leviathan can or does impose it's will through it's cenobites. And when a cenobite is directly connected to Leviathan, it can harness more power or strength etc than a regular one just created by Leviathan.

HorrorMovies
Originally posted by Steve98732
Well I think Channard wins against a full power Pinhead anyway, since the Dr. was connected directly to Leviathan. (Better weapons, more resistance to cenobite attacks? - passed along maybe from Leviathan to the Dr through the connecting tube?)


Also, there is this, from the Hellraiser wiki:

(When the 3 cenobites fight Dr. Channard:"This meant that they disobeyed the agenda of Hell and could no longer be trusted, thusly, Deepthroat, Butterball, Chatterer and Pinhead were systematically terminated by the Doctor with little difficulty. "wink


So I think if Pinhead was at full power he still would lose, Channard would still ''suffer'' from the cenobite's attacks with some vulnerability, but the Dr. would just counter the chain attacks like before. (And shoot the sticks out of his hand).


Channard wins a simple fight on account of being directly connected to the creator of the cenobites. But in the end it's like ninjak says, they don't die.

Exactly, you said it yourself. The Doctor was Laviathans right hand puppet. Based on this thread. The Doctor is going against Unbound Pinhead. He was far too unstoppable. Pinhead is forever and that's why we saw Pinhead again in later Hellraiser movies and not Doctor Channard?

Pinhead was depowered at the point when the Doctor killed the Cenobites, basically Pinhead betrayed Hell and so did the Cenobites after remembering that they were once human. due to Kistys information. If Pinhead wasn't weakened, no, Doctor Channard would of stood no chance.

Doctor Channard was already in pain while Pinhead started attacking him with 7-8 chains, Pinhead from other movies was able to use more chains and lethal weapons than that, Pinhead seeing he had the doctor in pain at first, you can tell he could of torn the doctor apart, he was just too weak to where he ran out of power to soon.

Also Notice the doctor killed the cenobites and they reverted back to there human form. He sure didn't do that to Pinhead, he had to revert Pinhead back into a human first to kill him because he obviously couldn't kill Pinhead as Pinhead.

Unbound Pinhead was separated from his human form, the doctor would of had no possible way to depower him at that point.

Pinhead stomps Doctor Channard..........so hard....

HorrorMovies
Also Pinhead can make several dimensions of himself if he wishes... Only Power the doctor showed was shapeshifting into knives, scalples, objects he used as a human doctor.... and the ability to revert Pinhead to human, nothing more... He has no way to revert Pinhead back into a human if he goes against Unbound Pinhead or depower him period.

Even Leviathan would most likely bow down to Unbound Pinhead.

HorrorMovies
Pinhead could also chain up Doctor Channard sticks if he attemps to use them.

Steve98732
Originally posted by HorrorMovies
Exactly, you said it yourself. The Doctor was Laviathans right hand puppet. Based on this thread. The Doctor is going against Unbound Pinhead. He was far too unstoppable. Pinhead is forever and that's why we saw Pinhead again in later Hellraiser movies and not Doctor Channard?

Pinhead was depowered at the point when the Doctor killed the Cenobites, basically Pinhead betrayed Hell and so did the Cenobites after remembering that they were once human. due to Kistys information. If Pinhead wasn't weakened, no, Doctor Channard would of stood no chance.

Doctor Channard was already in pain while Pinhead started attacking him with 7-8 chains, Pinhead from other movies was able to use more chains and lethal weapons than that, Pinhead seeing he had the doctor in pain at first, you can tell he could of torn the doctor apart, he was just too weak to where he ran out of power to soon.

Also Notice the doctor killed the cenobites and they reverted back to there human form. He sure didn't do that to Pinhead, he had to revert Pinhead back into a human first to kill him because he obviously couldn't kill Pinhead as Pinhead.

Unbound Pinhead was separated from his human form, the doctor would of had no possible way to depower him at that point.

Pinhead stomps Doctor Channard..........so hard....


I've got the four disc set, I've seen Hellraiser and Hellraiser II, but none of the rest. I've seen a few clips of that one with the two cops in it. I'm going to go and watch the third one on DVD in a minute.

''Also Notice the doctor killed the cenobites and they reverted back to there human form. He sure didn't do that to Pinhead, he had to revert Pinhead back into a human first to kill him because he obviously couldn't kill Pinhead as Pinhead.'' <-----That's plausible but couldn't you just as easily say the Dr. did it to humiliate Pinhead, the last one to go, the most important, the leader, etc? Unless of course the movie makers mentioned otherwise. There's no evidence Pinhead wouldn't die with the stick-thing attack. Possible: Dr Channard was sadistic and took pleasure out of watching Pinhead make a last stand in his most vunerable, defenceless form.


Anyway correct me if I'm wrong but this is how the Pinhead-Channard scene happened.


Ahhh good...a fight.
Pinhead points his finger up and commands hooked chains to attack Channard.

Channard breaks the chains and then kills the cenobites, but not Pinhead.


So Pinhead must of been de-powered at the instant he attacked Channard-cenobite, then?

HorrorMovies
Originally posted by Steve98732
I've got the four disc set, I've seen Hellraiser and Hellraiser II, but none of the rest. I've seen a few clips of that one with the two cops in it. I'm going to go and watch the third one on DVD in a minute.

''Also Notice the doctor killed the cenobites and they reverted back to there human form. He sure didn't do that to Pinhead, he had to revert Pinhead back into a human first to kill him because he obviously couldn't kill Pinhead as Pinhead.'' <-----That's plausible but couldn't you just as easily say the Dr. did it to humiliate Pinhead, the last one to go, the most important, the leader, etc? Unless of course the movie makers mentioned otherwise. There's no evidence Pinhead wouldn't die with the stick-thing attack. Possible: Dr Channard was sadistic and took pleasure out of watching Pinhead make a last stand in his most vunerable, defenceless form.


Anyway correct me if I'm wrong but this is how the Pinhead-Channard scene happened.


Ahhh good...a fight.
Pinhead points his finger up and commands hooked chains to attack Channard.

Channard breaks the chains and then kills the cenobites, but not Pinhead.


So Pinhead must of been de-powered at the instant he attacked Channard-cenobite, then?

I highly recommend you watch Hellraiser 3 because that's when Pinhead was Unbounded. He was separated from his human form...... I wont go further because I will spoil it for you, but I will tell you, Pinhead is far more powerful, far greater and far more powerful in Hellraiser 3 than he was in 1 and 2...

So the doctor reverting Pinhead to a human first to kill him was a way to humiliate him? I have to disagree. No the movie makers I am not sure confirmed Channard had to revert Pinhead to human to kill him, but I go by what has to be shown.... The doctor has to prove he can kill Pinhead in his Cenobite form with the stick by doing so like he did to the other Cenobites to prove he can kill Pinhead as Pinhead, but because he didn't and reverted Pinhead back to his human form, I am assuming he could only kill Pinhead as a human... I wouldn't even think Pinhead would have to be unbound to defeat the doctor, Pinhead from Hellraiser 1 would of tore his ass up.... Pinhead at full power used a lot more chains to kill Frank than he used on the Doctor and all those chains he used on Frank would be enough to not only to Hook through Channard's hands ( Which should block him from using those extra arms he had in his hand ) but, in HR 1 Pinhead had enough chains to completely destroy Channard.... Pinhead proved he was able to put him in pain for just a bit, all those chains from Hellraiser 1 would most likely kill Channard.

Anyways yes, I highly recommend watching Hellraiser 3... If you still think Channard could beat Pinhead from at full power from Hellraiser 1, then I recommend watching Hellraiser 3 when he was unbound and please tell me who would win then.... Only hint I will give you is, Pinhead was able to reality warp a city and could make deminsions of himself and turn other humans into Cenobites....He was pure evil and unstoppable until he got reunited with his human form.

HorrorMovies
Yes Pinhead was obviously weakened when he attacked Channard with the chains. He only used like I said 6-7 chains. Didn't he use more chains than that to kill Frank in the first film?

Yes the doctor killed the cenobites, but when he killed them he did it in there cenobite form and when they died they reverted back to there human forms. I am assuming if the Doctor could kill Pinhead in his cenobite form, then he would of done it, but instead has to revert him back into his human form first. I also think it sucked we didn't see the other cenobites after hellraiser 2...

Plus Doctor Channard was getting too overpowered in the movie, I can see why Leviathan allowed him to be outsmarted by two girls. He was just getting too overpowered and that's why Pinhead took his spot after Hellraiser 2.

Firefly218
Pinhead w

Steve98732
Originally posted by HorrorMovies
Yes Pinhead was obviously weakened when he attacked Channard with the chains. He only used like I said 6-7 chains. Didn't he use more chains than that to kill Frank in the first film?

Yes the doctor killed the cenobites, but when he killed them he did it in there cenobite form and when they died they reverted back to there human forms. I am assuming if the Doctor could kill Pinhead in his cenobite form, then he would of done it, but instead has to revert him back into his human form first. I also think it sucked we didn't see the other cenobites after hellraiser 2...

Plus Doctor Channard was getting too overpowered in the movie, I can see why Leviathan allowed him to be outsmarted by two girls. He was just getting too overpowered and that's why Pinhead took his spot after Hellraiser 2.

Ok so Hellraiser is partly about a box, the Lament configuration, which is like a rubik's cube from hell. Some people play around with it and the ones who ''desire'' to know about what is inside, and/or are a bit weird get sucked in to the hell/cenobite /pain/suffering for eternity thing and usually end up a cenobite themselves.

If the cenobites enforce the will of Leviathan, choice or not, why or how could they get ''too overpowered''? Too much suffering, too much killing, etc, I don't understand.

Cheers.

HorrorMovies
Originally posted by Steve98732
Ok so Hellraiser is partly about a box, the Lament configuration, which is like a rubik's cube from hell. Some people play around with it and the ones who ''desire'' to know about what is inside, and/or are a bit weird get sucked in to the hell/cenobite /pain/suffering for eternity thing and usually end up a cenobite themselves.

If the cenobites enforce the will of Leviathan, choice or not, why or how could they get ''too overpowered''? Too much suffering, too much killing, etc, I don't understand.

Cheers.

What cube are you referring to? The one where Pinhead and the others were in at the end of Hellraiser 2? Which was also in Hellraiser 3 and Pinhead had to absorb 2 bodies of flesh to get out?

The Doctor got overpowered and your statements proved it. Like saying he was connected to Leviathan... Which is the argument to him winning pretty much proves it however, Pinhead was way too overpowered in Hellraiser 3 until reunited with his human form. even then, Pinhead just seem'd more evil than he was in Hellraiser 1 and 2. since you said you saw parts of Bloodline where he turned the two cops into cenobites, you should know, Pinheads became more evil and more powerful....As far as the doctor goes, I guess him getting more overrated in Hellraiser 2 was a better way to put it.

Another thing that gets me is. Notice when the doctor fought the Cenobites, Pinhead was the only Cenobite who even did anything? The others just stood there? You know what I call that? Bad writing.... The writers couldn't even power up the other cenobites to a various degree.

focus4chumps
this whole topic reeks of ignorance. pinhead and chanard were both puppets of leviathan, as were all the cenobytes.

when pinhead regained his memory, he lost his power because leviathan stripped him of it (in quite an illustrated fashion as leviathan/chanard visually zapped it out of him). while it made no sense that he still had use of the chains, i like to think that leviathan allowed him that limited power just to give him false hope to further torment and punish him.

either way, as cenobytes they were drones with no will of their own, so it would essentially be leviathan vs leviathan, which is a nonsensical tourist versus topic.

dadudemon
Originally posted by focus4chumps
when pinhead regained his memory, he lost his power because leviathan stripped him of it (in quite an illustrated fashion as leviathan/chanard visually zapped it out of him). while it made no sense that he still had use of the chains, i like to think that leviathan allowed him that limited power just to give him false hope to further torment and punish him.


Don't you feel you're stretching things a bit much, here?

focus4chumps
oh great. is it already time for me to be blown away by your wikipedia skills?

dadudemon
Originally posted by focus4chumps
oh great. is it already time for me to be blown away by your wikipedia skills?

So you don't have anything from Hellraiser II to back up your statement (which you contradict even in your own post)? Just petty insults?

focus4chumps
if you have grounds to disagree, then state it.

you and i know that you don't, so why don't you just go away.

i'm tired of humiliating you, dadudemon. it bores me.

dadudemon
Originally posted by focus4chumps
if you have grounds to disagree, then state it.

you and i know that you don't, so why don't you just go away.

i'm tired of humiliating you, dadudemon. it bores me.

focus4chumps
...and you disagree because _______________________.

dadudemon
Originally posted by focus4chumps
...and you disagree because _______________________.


Originally posted by dadudemon
Don't you feel you're stretching things a bit much, here?

Originally posted by dadudemon
you don't have anything from Hellraiser II to back up your statement (which you contradict even in your own post)?

focus4chumps
...and i'm 'stretching it'/wrong because ______________.

Steve98732
You have to go by what happened in the movie, which means you can interpret several events in it, in different ways. There is only so much shown, so people can debate and put there opinions out. Pinhead commits the sin of remembrance, goes against one of the codes of hell, breaks a rule, etc. Channard-Cenobite is not "good". He is: sadistic, manipulative, evil, murderous. And he is looking forward to a fight.

The cenobites stand around surprised and a bit gormless after Dr.Channard disables the chains. Pinhead broke a rule, so his chain attack became weaker; the number of chains and the amount of pain the attack inflicted on another cenobite. Or: Channard-cenobite shrugged off the attack on account of being a better more powerful cenobite.

Conclusion:The lead cenobite went rogue, then a cenobite which is directly connected to the creator of the cenobites comes along and kills them when they are fighting underpowered.

Bonus: The other cenobites stood around because they were too sh*t scared to do anything.

dadudemon
Originally posted by focus4chumps
...and you disagree because _______________________.

It's okay: we both knew you stretched the truth a bit. Or else you'd stop dodging?

Edit - I mean, the new guy seems to get it. Funny that it seems to be "going" over your head? wink

focus4chumps
it wasnt a "sin". leviathan's control over him was severed and thus so was his power. chanard made it clear in that short ass-whooping that leviathan called the shots.

pinhead's chains were just a gimmick compared to his real ability under leviathan: controlling inter-dimensional portals to hell (for lack of a better term). thats why when he showed up, everything in that location got dark and shifted into f***ed up mode with doors to hell popping out of nowhere. (where do you think those chains were shooting out from, after all?) thats why i maintain my theory that leviathan was toying with pinhead by allowing him his futile chain attack. otherwise it makes little sense at all that he was able to do even that.

the number of chains was irrelevant. how do you torture a demon who orgasms from pain? how do you use the power of leviathan to hurt leviathan? thats why the chains were useless.

there were no scared cenobytes in that room, because they too were no longer cenobytes. they were the people whom they once were, with their memories restored. thats why they were so easily killed off. they had no power. leviathan was the puppet master.

Originally posted by dadudemon
It's okay: we both knew you stretched the truth a bit. Or else you'd stop dodging?

Edit - I mean, the new guy seems to get it. Funny that it seems to be "going" over your head? wink

another empty non-retort.

you're just making a try-hard tourist ass out of yourself as per your M.O.

your whole schtick is weak and lame...and very very boring.

Steve98732
Well man that's the best reply to this thread pretty much, like you said ''the number of chains was irrelevant. how do you torture a demon who orgasms from pain? how do you use the power of leviathan to hurt leviathan?''


From a movie POV though I the whole idea of Channard is obvious. To provide us with an opposite to the already established cenobites. Channard-cenobite was new, had different weapons, was a doctor or surgeon who had experience in the flesh and had a dark side to his nature, so was a classic perfect candidate. He was also distinct because he was connected to Levianthan.

The sin part though, didn't the filmmakers say it was the sin of remembrance? Which means it has to be factual and not opinion.

Steve98732
That part where Channard says ah good...a fight and the subtle music that plays over (the dark ''bong'' sounds) is one of my favorite scenes in the movie, perfect, I really get the sense that there is going to be a conflict, the big bad boss cenobite vs the regular cenobites.

focus4chumps
they may have used the term "sin of remembrance". i never heard it used but i'll take your word for it. i think the film illustrates more of a 'consequence of forgetfullness' since all their love for pain and immortality as demons was suddenly gone. (thus pinheads 'reeducation" in that final scene as he's being tortured).

the point i'm making is that it seems that his remembering cancelled out his status as a cenobyte by default, as with his minions, before chanard even showed up. my reasoning is that while chanard turned pinhead's form back to his original self, the others were still in cenobyte-form, yet clearly mortal as they were killed off easily via impalement.

there is so much of that film left to interpretation though so there is no final answer. however one thing is clear: the demon pinhead was a drone servant of leviathan as was chanard. both their jobs was to torture souls (and retrieve the occasional escape convict). so this topic presents the scenario of two pain-loving immortal demons torturing eachother. i guess the 'winner' would be 'who orgasms last'

dadudemon
Originally posted by focus4chumps
another empty non-retort.

you're just making a try-hard tourist ass out of yourself as per your M.O.

your whole schtick is weak and lame...and very very boring.

K.

HorrorMovies
Originally posted by focus4chumps
it wasnt a "sin". leviathan's control over him was severed and thus so was his power. chanard made it clear in that short ass-whooping that leviathan called the shots.

pinhead's chains were just a gimmick compared to his real ability under leviathan: controlling inter-dimensional portals to hell (for lack of a better term). thats why when he showed up, everything in that location got dark and shifted into f***ed up mode with doors to hell popping out of nowhere. (where do you think those chains were shooting out from, after all?) thats why i maintain my theory that leviathan was toying with pinhead by allowing him his futile chain attack. otherwise it makes little sense at all that he was able to do even that.

the number of chains was irrelevant. how do you torture a demon who orgasms from pain? how do you use the power of leviathan to hurt leviathan? thats why the chains were useless.

there were no scared cenobytes in that room, because they too were no longer cenobytes. they were the people whom they once were, with their memories restored. thats why they were so easily killed off. they had no power. leviathan was the puppet master.



another empty non-retort.

you're just making a try-hard tourist ass out of yourself as per your M.O.

your whole schtick is weak and lame...and very very boring.

I love your details you have given. I did clearly say that doctor was nothing more than leviathans puppet or something along the lines so it would make sense that Leviathan was the one toying with him by manipulating the doctor... Not to mention Leviathan is the only one who can actually kill or depower Pinhead.

That Doctor going against Unbound Pinhead is what I wanna see. Because didn't Pinhead never use those powers in 1 and 2 as he did in 3 for the fact he had to follow the rules of hell, but when he was unbound he didn't have to follow any rules and could do anything he wanted? I believe so....

HorrorMovies
Originally posted by focus4chumps
this whole topic reeks of ignorance. pinhead and chanard were both puppets of leviathan, as were all the cenobytes.

when pinhead regained his memory, he lost his power because leviathan stripped him of it (in quite an illustrated fashion as leviathan/chanard visually zapped it out of him). while it made no sense that he still had use of the chains, i like to think that leviathan allowed him that limited power just to give him false hope to further torment and punish him.

either way, as cenobytes they were drones with no will of their own, so it would essentially be leviathan vs leviathan, which is a nonsensical tourist versus topic.

See you just said and made the same point as I did. Pinhead was stripped of most of his powers when remembering when he was a human in the Bristish World War 1... In other words the doctor went against a depower Pinhead..... but, guess what?

Pinhead from Hellraiser 1 would of smacked the shit out of the doctor and chains him up with far more chains and tore his ass apart.....

HorrorMovies
Originally posted by Steve98732
You have to go by what happened in the movie, which means you can interpret several events in it, in different ways. There is only so much shown, so people can debate and put there opinions out. Pinhead commits the sin of remembrance, goes against one of the codes of hell, breaks a rule, etc. Channard-Cenobite is not "good". He is: sadistic, manipulative, evil, murderous. And he is looking forward to a fight.

The cenobites stand around surprised and a bit gormless after Dr.Channard disables the chains. Pinhead broke a rule, so his chain attack became weaker; the number of chains and the amount of pain the attack inflicted on another cenobite. Or: Channard-cenobite shrugged off the attack on account of being a better more powerful cenobite.

Conclusion:The lead cenobite went rogue, then a cenobite which is directly connected to the creator of the cenobites comes along and kills them when they are fighting underpowered.

Bonus: The other cenobites stood around because they were too sh*t scared to do anything.

The thing that confuses me about the doctor is, he knew who Tiffany was when he started seeing her in his cenobite form. and he was also her doctor when he was a human...so didn't he also commit the sin of rememberance too? Yet was still overly powered when compared to Pinhead after pinheads rememberance?

Like I said, it was bad writing... I still enjoyed the movie, but that's why its not as good as the first....there were some bad errors the writers could of twisted around and made it better.

Leviathan could of resurrected Pinhead after he got his throat cut and went for round 2... Doctor Channard ( Depowered ) goes against a full power pinhead.

Pinhead rips his soul apart with dozens of chains.

focus4chumps
my point was that both chanard and pinhead were invulnerable, barring a mortal solving the puzzle cube, it's a stalemate. not only stalemate but a laughable one since both enjoy pain and suffering.

HorrorMovies
Originally posted by focus4chumps
my point was that both chanard and pinhead were invulnerable, barring a mortal solving the puzzle cube, it's a stalemate. not only stalemate but a laughable one since both enjoy pain and suffering.

Sir, I don't care what your opinion is. especially since it's not even fact. Channard went against a depowered Pinhead. And Pinhead had the doctor screaming for a bit until Pinhead ran out of power and due to less amound of chains used, I can see why the doctor broke free with his extra arms.... Full Powered Pinhead would of chained all of the doctors arms, legs and even his face and tore his ass apart. If it wasn't for Pinheads humanity rememberance, the doctor would of never of been able to lay finger on Pinhead or his Cenobite crew.

If you think the doctor stomps or this is a stalemate, you're in fact wrong.......hush ur face.......

Pinhead stomps Doctor Channard..............so hard.....

focus4chumps
nope. pinhead was only "stomped" because he was not pinhead. he was elliott spencer and thus had mortal vulnerability. as demons though, they are immortal. even when 'killed' with the puzzle box they are simply being sent back to hell. sorry but your whole portrayal of events is comic book action wankery and totally misses the heart of clive barker's mythos.

HorrorMovies
Originally posted by focus4chumps
nope. pinhead was only "stomped" because he was not pinhead. he was elliott spencer and thus had mortal vulnerability. as demons though, they are immortal. even when 'killed' with the puzzle box they are simply being sent back to hell. sorry but your whole portrayal of events is comic book action wankery and totally misses the heart of clive barker's mythos.

Pinhead was the only Cenobite reverted back into his human form. Doctor Channard killed Female-Cenobite, Chatterbox and Butter ball in there Cenobite form after stabbing them and when they died, they reverted back into there human form. He didn't do that to Pinhead and you're very right, Doctor Channard had to revert him back into Elliot Spencer first because he obviously couldn't kill Pinhead in his Cenobite form...... I am talking about Pinheads powers being stripped from him right before he was reverted back into his human form.... And no, I didn't get any of this info from a comic. I've never read a Hellraiser comic a day in my life....I only have 9 of the movies....... That's why Pinheads been bck in 7 films afterwards and we never saw the doctor ever again.....ahhahahaahahahahahahaha

focus4chumps
Originally posted by HorrorMovies
Pinhead was the only Cenobite reverted back into his human form. Doctor Channard killed Female-Cenobite, Chatterbox and Butter ball in there Cenobite form after stabbing them and when they died, they reverted back into there human form. He didn't do that to Pinhead and you're very right, Doctor Channard had to revert him back into Elliot Spencer first because he obviously couldn't kill Pinhead in his Cenobite form...... I am talking about Pinheads powers being stripped from him right before he was reverted back into his human form.... And no, I didn't get any of this info from a comic. I've never read a Hellraiser comic a day in my life....I only have 9 of the movies....... That's why Pinheads been bck in 7 films afterwards and we never saw the doctor ever again.....ahhahahaahahahahahahaha

as we both said, the cenobytes were killed by simple impalement. they were no longer immortal when they remembered their true selves, divorced from the power of hell/leviathan.

the reason we dont see chanard was because doug bradley was the star of the series, and the only reason people returned to the theaters to see every godawful campy sequel after HR2. it would make no sense to shoehorn chanard into a new plot.

HorrorMovies
Originally posted by focus4chumps
as we both said, the cenobytes were killed by simple impalement. they were no longer immortal when they remembered their true selves, divorced from the power of hell/leviathan.

the reason we dont see chanard was because doug bradley was the star of the series, and the only reason people returned to the theaters to see every godawful campy sequel after HR2. it would make no sense to shoehorn chanard into a new plot.

Sir this has nothing to do with Doug Bradley being the main villain, we are talking plot wise.....are you really this dumb? Doctor Channard got outsmarted by two girls... That never would happen to Pinhead.

Didn't Doctor Channard also commit the sin of rememberance when he knew who Tiffany was in his Cenobite form and considering he was also her doctor when he was a human and yet he wasn't depowered at all and yet Pinhead and the rest of the Cenobites were after the sin of rememberance? Yeah I guess that's what you call bad writing....That's why Hellraiser 2 wont ever be as good as Hellraiser 1.

Pinhead from Hellraiser 1 would shred Doctor Channard...

focus4chumps
Originally posted by HorrorMovies
Sir this has nothing to do with Doug Bradley being the main villain, we are talking plot wise.....are you really this dumb? Doctor Channard got outsmarted by two girls... That never would happen to Pinhead.

you are trying to suggest that chanard not being written into future plotlines is proof that he was weaker, which is abysmally asinine

Originally posted by HorrorMovies
Didn't Doctor Channard also commit the sin of rememberance when he knew who Tiffany was in his Cenobite form and considering he was also her doctor when he was a human and yet he wasn't depowered at all and yet Pinhead and the rest of the Cenobites were after the sin of rememberance? Yeah I guess that's what you call bad writing....That's why Hellraiser 2 wont ever be as good as Hellraiser 1.

bad fanfic. kirsty just rekindled his lust for julia and distracted him while tiffany solved the puzzle cube, which made him vulnerable.

Originally posted by HorrorMovies
Pinhead from Hellraiser 1 would shred Doctor Channard...


quanchi for sure

quanchi112
Originally posted by focus4chumps
you are trying to suggest that chanard not being written into future plotlines is proof that he was weaker, which is abysmally asinine



bad fanfic. kirsty just rekindled his lust for julia and distracted him while tiffany solved the puzzle cube, which made him vulnerable.



quanchi for sure You have summoned me.


Did you honestly say Chanard was invulnerable to damage ? Hahahahahahahahah. We see Pinhead hurt him and Kirsty later responsible for the dumbass beheading himself. Pinhead is the only one who can lay claim to invulnerability of these two.


The only reason he defeated Pinhead was due to the fact he had been spiritually weakened right before they fought. Leviathan gave them all powers but that doesn't mean they can't go undermine and oppose each other.

Pinhead absolutely wins.

focus4chumps
chanard was weakened because tiffany solved the puzzle cube, just like pinhead was defeated in hellraiser 1 (overpowered by a little girl, making kirsty the ultimate cenobyte, if we go by your painfully stupid interpretation of events).

stick to debating your simple-simon popcorn comic book action flicks since you obviously have no grasp of clive barker's story. also pick an account and stick with it.

buh bye

http://i1322.photobucket.com/albums/u561/focus4chumps/C1VlxA9-2.gif

quanchi112
Originally posted by focus4chumps
chanard was weakened because tiffany solved the puzzle cube, just like pinhead was defeated in hellraiser 1 (overpowered by a little girl, making kirsty the ultimate cenobyte, if we go by your painfully stupid interpretation of events).

stick to debating your simple-simon popcorn comic book action flicks since you obviously have no grasp of clive barker's story. also pick an account and stick with it.

buh bye

http://i1322.photobucket.com/albums/u561/focus4chumps/C1VlxA9-2.gif No, he wasn't as they were in hell. Chanard was physically harmed by Pinhead in their duel anyway. You claimed physically invulnerable because you don't understand what the word even means.

What I say is backed by the films director what you say isn't backed by anything resembling logic.

focus4chumps
http://i1322.photobucket.com/albums/u561/focus4chumps/UFygbbI.jpg

quanchi112
Originally posted by focus4chumps
http://i1322.photobucket.com/albums/u561/focus4chumps/UFygbbI.jpg Concession accepted.

HorrorMovies
Pinhead rapes the doctor..............so hard...............

quanchi112
Originally posted by HorrorMovies
Pinhead rapes the doctor..............so hard............... Absolutely.

Darkstorm Zero
Hellraiser 3 and beyond, Pinhead is unbound....

The only rules he now follows are those bound to the puzzle cube.

Err Chanard gets hooked in the @$$hole right when the fight begins...

focus4chumps
Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
Hellraiser 3 and beyond

is pure crap

quanchi112
Originally posted by focus4chumps
is pure crap That isn't the point.

Darkstorm Zero
Originally posted by focus4chumps
is pure crap

Hey I agree with you, but they are the franchise as much as the first two. *Shrugs*

focus4chumps
Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
Hey I agree with you, but they are the franchise as much as the first two. *Shrugs*

clive barker wrote 1 & 2. thats why they were awesome and also why the later whorings should not be applied to the true characters.

this whole thread is based on turning an awesome story into a trite set of action movie feats which is not the point of hellraiser. it was not an action movie and the chains were not a goddamn fighting weapon.

yeah i get it. "it counts because it's in the series" but it's ****ing stupid. it's just as silly as suggesting that superman has the ability to build brick structures with his mind because superman 4. this whole topic is aids.

quanchi112
Originally posted by focus4chumps
clive barker wrote 1 & 2. thats why they were awesome and also why the later whorings should not be applied to the true characters.

this whole thread is based on turning an awesome story into a trite set of action movie feats which is not the point of hellraiser. it was not an action movie and the chains were not a goddamn fighting weapon.

yeah i get it. "it counts because it's in the series" but it's ****ing stupid. it's just as silly as suggesting that superman has the ability to build brick structures with his mind because superman 4. this whole topic is aids. It is a versus topic in which you're supposed to be objective as to who wins. Set aside your personal preferences which is subjective and bias.

Darkstorm Zero
Originally posted by focus4chumps
clive barker wrote 1 & 2. thats why they were awesome and also why the later whorings should not be applied to the true characters.

this whole thread is based on turning an awesome story into a trite set of action movie feats which is not the point of hellraiser. it was not an action movie and the chains were not a goddamn fighting weapon.

yeah i get it. "it counts because it's in the series" but it's ****ing stupid. it's just as silly as suggesting that superman has the ability to build brick structures with his mind because superman 4. this whole topic is aids.

I know, I know... But that's what the OP wanted to debate...

HorrorMovies
Originally posted by focus4chumps
clive barker wrote 1 & 2. thats why they were awesome and also why the later whorings should not be applied to the true characters.

this whole thread is based on turning an awesome story into a trite set of action movie feats which is not the point of hellraiser. it was not an action movie and the chains were not a goddamn fighting weapon.

yeah i get it. "it counts because it's in the series" but it's ****ing stupid. it's just as silly as suggesting that superman has the ability to build brick structures with his mind because superman 4. this whole topic is aids.

Guess what? Any version of Superman would get the shit smacked out of him by Pinhead just like another user above said

The Doctor gets the hooked chains in his ass before the fight even begins.

Pinhead mega Stomps.

quanchi112
Originally posted by HorrorMovies
Guess what? Any version of Superman would get the shit smacked out of him by Pinhead just like another user above said

The Doctor gets the hooked chains in his ass before the fight even begins.

Pinhead mega Stomps. Focus has gone into hiding. He probably won't come back in this thread.

focus4chumps
wow you're pathetic.

quanchi112
Originally posted by focus4chumps
wow you're pathetic. So debate the topic. Pinhead wins based off the directors views, the fact Chanard can be physically hurt unlike Pinhead for the most part, and the fact Pinhead has greater feats and applications of power.

Robtard
laughing out loud Quanchi made a sock account "HorrorMovies" to agree with himself. laughing out loud

quanchi112
Originally posted by Robtard
laughing out loud Quanchi made a sock account "HorrorMovies" to agree with himself. laughing out loud Lies. I want an apology for such a baseless accusation.

Robtard
Maybe you should jump on the 'HorrorMovies' account and demand one there too, sockboi.

quanchi112
Originally posted by Robtard
Maybe you should jump on the 'HorrorMovies' account and demand one there too, sockboi. The odds are you always being this wrong has to be staggering. I mean you get emotional in practically every thread I'm involved in.

HorrorMovies
Originally posted by Robtard
Maybe you should jump on the 'HorrorMovies' account and demand one there too, sockboi.

So he and I are one person with 2 accounts why? Just because we both know Pinhead would ***** slap the Doctor and wreck his ******* into pieces and pat him on the head like a kitten just for fun... Pinhead would butt **** Doctor Channard with hooked chains just to have the time of his life.

quanchi112
Originally posted by HorrorMovies
So he and I are one person with 2 accounts why? Just because we both know Pinhead would ***** slap the Doctor and wreck his ******* into pieces and pat him on the head like a kitten just for fun... Pinhead would butt **** Doctor Channard with hooked chains just to have the time of his life. Robtard doesn't care about debating just emotions and sticking up for his man.

Pinhead unquestionably wins this thread.

HorrorMovies
Originally posted by quanchi112
Robtard doesn't care about debating just emotions and sticking up for his man.

Pinhead unquestionably wins this thread.

HorrorMovies
Originally posted by quanchi112
No, he wasn't as they were in hell. Chanard was physically harmed by Pinhead in their duel anyway. You claimed physically invulnerable because you don't understand what the word even means.

What I say is backed by the films director what you say isn't backed by anything resembling logic.

Very true and Pinheads proved to be immune to physical damage. That's why Doctor Channard had to revert him into a human before killing him because he had to kill Pinhead as Elliot Spencer. He obviously couldn't kill Pinhead as Pinhead... Pinhead in Inferno was attacked by a lazer beam if I remember correctly. Is that debatable in this argument? Of course. Pinhead was already reunited with his human form after HR3 so therefore he was back to the way he was in 1 & 2.

Robtard
Originally posted by quanchi112
Robtard doesn't care about debating just emotions and sticking up for his man.


Adorable that you and your sock account have found common ground (me) to team up against; I'm happy to have brought you two together smile

quanchi112
Originally posted by Robtard
Adorable that you and your sock account have found common ground (me) to team up against; I'm happy to have brought you two together smile That account isn't me. You are paranoid.

HorrorMovies
Originally posted by Robtard
Adorable that you and your sock account have found common ground (me) to team up against; I'm happy to have brought you two together smile

He and I aren't the same person you dumb bimbo, **** whore.

And Pinhead ass rapes Doctor Channard so hard...

quanchi112
Originally posted by HorrorMovies
He and I aren't the same person you dumb bimbo, **** whore.

And Pinhead ass rapes Doctor Channard so hard... laughing out loud


Anyone who agrees with me has to be a sock in Robbie's tiny mind.

HorrorMovies
Originally posted by quanchi112
laughing out loud


Anyone who agrees with me has to be a sock in Robbie's tiny mind.

uh huh.....uh huh and guess what?

Pinhead stomps.......... Pinhead would tear the doctor and you a knew *******.................................................................

focus4chumps
quanchi can you dial back your faggotry just a little bit?

quanchi112
Originally posted by focus4chumps
quanchi can you dial back your faggotry just a little bit? You need to man up.

HorrorMovies
Originally posted by quanchi112
You need to man up.

Admit Pinhead destroys the doctor...come on...you need to grow up.... time for those balls to drop sweetcheecks.

quanchi112
Originally posted by HorrorMovies
Admit Pinhead destroys the doctor...come on...you need to grow up.... time for those balls to drop sweetcheecks. He is avoiding the thread like the pathetic man child he is.

HorrorMovies
Originally posted by quanchi112
He is avoiding the thread like the pathetic man child he is.

lol

quanchi112
Originally posted by HorrorMovies
lol thumb up

HorrorMovies
Yup. I just watched the directors cut and it was not only confirmed that Pinhead was weakened by Kirsty showing Pinhead a picture of his humanity, but the other Cenobites were remembering there humanity as well.

It was also confirmed that a full power Pinhead would murder Doctor Channard.... And I believe it..... very easily Pinhead wins.........

Tattoos N Scars
Reported for socking

quanchi112
Originally posted by HorrorMovies
Yup. I just watched the directors cut and it was not only confirmed that Pinhead was weakened by Kirsty showing Pinhead a picture of his humanity, but the other Cenobites were remembering there humanity as well.

It was also confirmed that a full power Pinhead would murder Doctor Channard.... And I believe it..... very easily Pinhead wins......... I thought I already mentioned this. He was spiritually weakened at this time. Chanard was weak sauce.

focus4chumps
oh look. quanchi's talking to his own sock account to to win a thread. clearly this the act of an intelligent and reasonable man who is successful in life and popular with the ladies.

quanchi112
Originally posted by focus4chumps
oh look. quanchi's talking to his own sock account to to win a thread. clearly this the act of an intelligent and reasonable man who is successful in life and popular with the ladies. Another lie. What he says is true. You don't know the first thing about hellraiser, google tourist.


Pinhead stomps.

focus4chumps
woodchipper stomps smile

quanchi112
Originally posted by focus4chumps
woodchipper stomps smile Try to stick to the topic. Seeing you and the other trolls bump that joke of a thread makes you realize how little you do have in your life.

Robtard
Originally posted by Tattoos N Scars
Reported for socking

You just made Quan jizz his shit-stained undies, even though it is his sock. That's how much he gets off on any kind of reporting.

quanchi112
Originally posted by Robtard
You just made Quan jizz his shit-stained undies, even though it is his sock. That's how much he gets off on any kind of reporting. Says the coward as well as coward lover. I bet you love George McFly as well.

Archangel-Playe
The way i see it. The "good" dr was able to beat pinhead so easly because it was not only the dr's will to kill Kersty was not only his but Leviathan 's as well. Since they where one at the time. By pinhead opossing the dr. He was also opposing Hell's order.

This time around the dr doesnt have Leviathan attached. So he isnt nearly as powerful. Both have the respect of Leviathan on their side. Both spent their lives studdying "Hell" so have a master of its do's and don't s . It would be an intrestinf fight to see how powerful the dr will be without Leviathan's aid

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