Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.

Just cuz. No stipulations. The arena is a plain parking garage.

Unless it's "teh z0n311!!!" Anakin, he and Ventress lose horribly.

Can TEH ZONE anakin solo savage and dooku?

Originally posted by truejedi
Can TEH ZONE anakin solo savage and dooku? Judging by the extreme ease in which he bested Dooku in RotS, I'd say so.

Originally posted by Galan007
Judging by the extreme ease in which he bested Dooku in RotS, I'd say so.

Nah! Dooku would Manhandle him with the Force, just like he did to Obi-Wan, Savage, Ventress e.t.c none of whom Anakin has proven himself superior to in the Force department.

As for this fight if its CW Anakin then either member of team 1 can solo.. If its ROTS Anakin at his peak, then there will be no soloing, but team 1 still takes it.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Nah! Dooku would Manhandle him with the Force, just like he did to Obi-Wan, Savage, Ventress e.t.c none of whom Anakin has proven himself superior to in the Force department. This isn't just a force battle.

Originally posted by Galan007
This isn't just a force battle.

Nor were any of those fights I mentioned, but Dooku still manhandled them with the Force. He didn't get a chance to do that to ROTS Anakin, becaue it started off 2 on 1 and then Skywalker jumped at him when Dooku just disposed of Kenobi.

But one on one with no Kenobi there? I reckon Dooku could just go all out with the Force, and do the same sort of thing he did to Kenobi, or keep him at bay with his FL like he did Savage(someone with much greater physical strength).

I mean heck if Ventress can Force choke him, Id hate to think what Dooku could do to him if he went all out with his Force powers.

The novel makes it clear that Dooku's mastery of the force was useless against Anakin... If Anakin is in TEH Z0nE Dooku is not taking him out by himself.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Nor were any of those fights I mentioned, but Dooku still manhandled them with the Force. He didn't get a chance to do that to ROTS Anakin, becaue it started off 2 on 1 and then Skywalker jumped at him when Dooku just disposed of Kenobi.

But one on one with no Kenobi there? I reckon Dooku could just go all out with the Force, and do the same sort of thing he did to Kenobi, or keep him at bay with his FL like he did Savage(someone with much greater physical strength).

I mean heck if Ventress can Force choke him, Id hate to think what Dooku could do to him if he went all out with his Force powers. If "t3h z0n3" Anakin has a lightsaber, Dooku is not beating him. The RotS film and novelization made that clear.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Nah! Dooku would Manhandle him with the Force, just like he did to Obi-Wan, Savage, Ventress e.t.c none of whom Anakin has proven himself superior to in the Force department.

As for this fight if its CW Anakin then either member of team 1 can solo.. If its ROTS Anakin at his peak, then there will be no soloing, but team 1 still takes it.

Dooku would manhandle "Zone" Anakin? Don't see that happening DP.

Originally posted by ares834
The novel makes it clear that Dooku's mastery of the force was useless against Anakin... If Anakin is in TEH Z0nE Dooku is not taking him out by himself.

This is silly, considering Dooku doesn't offensively use the Force against Anakin in the battle. Both times he uses it, he takes out Kenobi.

Royally pissed off Anakin = Obi-Wan in Force powers, since they stalemated each other. Obi-Wan has never been shown to match up to Dooku in that manner, and neither has Anakin. Additionally, Yoda cites Dooku as being head and shoulders above all other Jedi in the Force. Dooku > Anakin by virtue of superior knowledge of the Force and mastery.

If Dooku chooses to deploy the Force, no one here can stand up to him. So the question becomes can Ventress and Anakin defeat Opress quick enough to doubleteam Dooku?

Originally posted by Stealth Moose
This is silly, considering Dooku doesn't offensively use the Force against Anakin in the battle. Both times he uses it, he takes out Kenobi.

Doesn't matter if you think it's "silly", it's canon. Dooku's knowledge of the Force was a joke when he fought Anakin.



Is there any evidence that "royally pissed off" Anakin is the same as in TEH Z0nE Anakin? Nope.



Mace Windu cites Anakin as the most powerful Jed in RotS... Clearly what characters say about one another isn't alway infalliable.



Anakin could.

Originally posted by ares834
Doesn't matter if you think it's "silly", it's canon. Dooku's knowledge of the Force was a joke when he fought Anakin.

The movie version of the fight doesn't show Dooku using the Force against Anakin. Why would I believe that the novelization - which already has tons of examples of fights being completely and totally wrong compared to the highest canon source - is correct in this? He didn't use the Force on Anakin. Duh.



Substantiate the difference? Where did "in teh zone" term come from? The novelization? The same one that shows Kit Fisto's head on a desk?



When is this now? And Yoda has a thousand years of practical experience. I'd say he's a fairly good in-universe source.



When did Anakin defend against a Force user of Dooku's level? Other people would include defending against Yoda, Mace, and Sidious. Please, tell me.

Originally posted by Stealth Moose
The movie version of the fight doesn't show Dooku using the Force against Anakin. Why would I believe that the novelization - which already has tons of examples of fights being completely and totally wrong compared to the highest canon source - is correct in this? He didn't use the Force on Anakin. Duh.

Or one can realize that there is a reason that Dooku didn't use the Force on Anakin... Namely because he realized he couldn't, which is what the RotS novel says.



You know... The Anakin who let go off all restraint and made Dooku look like a red headed stepchild. The one that originates from a G-canon source called the RotS novelization.



Oh so because there are a couple contradictions the source becomes entirely unreliable. I guess almost everything should be thrown out eh?



In the RotS novel. Mace Windu claims that Anakin is arguably the most powerful Jedi ever. And yes I agree that Yoda is reliable, but when he talks about Dooku in DR he is clearly not entirely correct. Afterall Yoda is superior to Dooku.

I would never state that Anakin could best Dooku in a pure force duel, however Dooku won't be able to rag doll an in TEH Z0nE Anakin effortlessly either.




In RotS of course. Dooku's "knowledge of the force was a joke."
But furthermore I would turn you toward the Clone wars. In the movie, which takes place shortly after AotC, Anakin manages to fair quite well agianst the Count even though the former is using his force powers. Ultimately the fight ends with Anakin kicking Dooku on to his ass and leaving to rescue Ahsoka.

It's safe to assume there is a pretty vast difference between the Anakin who easily trounced Dooku, and the Anakin who stalemated Kenobi.

After all, Dooku was able to easily best Kenobi, and Anakin was able to easily best Dooku - ie. "t3h z0n3" Anakin > Dooku >> Kenobi. So either Kenobi's overall skills grew astronomically between the beginning and end of RotS, or Anakin simply wasn't fighting to the best of his ability on Mustafar. You pick.

Originally posted by Galan007
It's safe to assume there is a pretty vast difference between the Anakin who easily trounced Dooku, and the Anakin who stalemated Kenobi.

After all, Dooku was able to easily best Kenobi, and Anakin was able to easily best Dooku - ie. "t3h z0n3" Anakin > Dooku >> Kenobi. So either Kenobi's overall skills grew astronomically between the beginning and end of RotS, or Anakin simply wasn't fighting to the best of his ability on Mustafar. You pick.

This is exactly why A>B>C doesnt work. I really dnt see any version of Anakin defeating Kenobi any where near as easily as Dooku trounced him.

Dooku was >>> Kenobi because of how vastly superior he was in the Force.. Anakin > Dooku because Dooku could not handle his tremendous raw power in a sword fight and as per the film did not get a chance to use the Force on him after Anakin was all over him. Kenobi =/> Anakin because his defensive style was more able to handle Anakin's onslought giving him time to outsmart him.

Which is why I still think give Dooku a chance to go all out with the Force on ROTS Anakin, and yeah he can defeat him, but yeah with difficulty.

Just look at the Dooku vs Savage fight. Savage actually physically overpowered Dooku in the up close fight, but still Dooku put him down with his FL, a guy whose much stronger (physically) than ROTS Anakin.

Also look at Ventress. She's never beaten Anakin in a sword fight, but when she was disarmed, and had a chance to go all out with the Force she was able to Force choke Anakin (and Obi-Wan). Who would have guessed she could do that??

I honestly think it was more of an issue regarding Anakin's strength in the Force versus actual physical strength.

Kenobi was able to hang with a rage-filled anakin, BECAUSE he trained him. Everything Anakin threw at him, he had seen before, and was able to counter.

tj
Kenobi was able to hang with a rage-filled anakin, BECAUSE he trained him. Everything Anakin threw at him, he had seen before, and was able to counter.

And because it wasn't the same sort of mental clarity he had in his duel with the good Count.

Originally posted by ares834
In the RotS novel. Mace Windu claims that Anakin is arguably the most powerful Jedi ever. And yes I agree that Yoda is reliable, but when he talks about Dooku in DR he is clearly not entirely correct. Afterall Yoda is superior to Dooku.


Im guessing Yoda looking at all the other jedis as the students of the temple, and himself the teacher. Its been a long long long time since he was a student. And it was kind of a given he wasnt including himself.

Originally posted by RagingBoner
And because it wasn't the same sort of mental clarity he had in his duel with the good Count.

I've never agreed with that. Both times were times he gave in to his anger.

tj
I've never agreed with that. Both times were times he gave in to his anger.

For Anakin, the means by which to access his power doesn't seem to be just sheer rage. Consider his ability to tame the Force wielders on Mortis, which was done in a moment of clarity, similar to the state of mind Anakin was in in Stover's novelization.

I believe the power gap between someone like Dooku and Kenobi is so intense that if it was simply anger that enabled Anakin to best the Count, Kenobi would have been slaughtered under similar circumstances. Experience and training be damned.

Still I think it would be interesting to see a one on one fight between the Count and ROTS Anakin where Dooku is fully aware of the raw power at Anakin's disposal, so just goes All Out with his much greater mastery of the Force.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
This is exactly why A>B>C doesnt work. I really dnt see any version of Anakin defeating Kenobi any where near as easily as Dooku trounced him. Really? So your opinion is that "t3h z0n3" Anakin would have been unable to defeat Kenobi (or had a hard time doing so), despite the casual ease in which he bested Dooku (who had effortlessly trounced Kenobi just beforehand?) I couldn't disagree more.

The difference in demeanor/mentality/emotional stability between "t3h z0n3" Anakin and Mustafar Anakin, was obvious. Ergo, if Anakin wouldn't have been an emotional train wreck when he fought Kenobi, the outcome would have been much different.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Still I think it would be interesting to see a one on one fight between the Count and ROTS Anakin where Dooku is fully aware of the raw power at Anakin's disposal You realize Dooku could sense Anakin's raw power the entire time, right?

As someone guilty of using that expression before, we desperately need to find a new term for that Anakin. Can we just say zone!Anakin or Zoneakin or something?

Originally posted by RagingBoner
As someone guilty of using that expression before, we desperately need to find a new term for that Anakin. Can we just say zone!Anakin or Zoneakin or something? Imo, "t3h z0n3" should be the default version/mindset of RotS Anakin we use, unless specified otherwise.

G007
Imo, "t3h z0n3" should be the default version/mindset of RotS Anakin we use, unless specified otherwise.

We must submit it to the committee.

Originally posted by Stealth Moose
Substantiate the difference? Where did "in teh zone" term come from? The novelization? The same one that shows Kit Fisto's head on a desk?


It's a reference to the last part of the duel in the novelization, in which Anakin, utilizing the dark side, sets a nice portion of his potential free, which in turn renders Dooku's superior training and experience moot and enables Anakin to defeat the Sith Lord.

But, technically, this should enable "in the zone" Anakin to simple steamroll every other character in the SW universe, kind of making it moot to use him in VS setups.

Originally posted by Borbarad
But, technically, this should enable "in the zone" Anakin to simple steamroll every other character in the SW universe, kind of making it moot to use him in VS setups. That's kind of where I was conflicted as well. It's my opinion that you could put pretty much anyone in front of "t3h z0n3" Anakin, and he'd beat them. So when someone puts "RotS Anakin" in a versus thread, without specifying which version/mindset is to be used, then which should we go to by default? Should we use the God-like Anakin who trounced Dooku with ease, or the drastically watered down Anakin who barely managed to stalemate Kenobi? There's really not too much of a gray/neutral area with him, lol.

One's Anakin, the other's Vader. Good call.

...Or that.

G007


...Or that.

You really made an important observation: We only see Anakin fight once in the movie as Anakin. The other times, he was Vader.

Originally posted by Galan007
Really? So your opinion is that "t3h z0n3" Anakin would have been unable to defeat Kenobi (or had a hard time doing so), despite the casual ease in which he bested Dooku (who had effortlessly trounced Kenobi just beforehand?) I couldn't disagree more.

Not exactly what I said. I said I dnt see ROTS Anakin defeating Obi-Wan "anywhere near es easily" as Dooku did. That was with casual ease. That doesnt mean im saying ROTS Anakin would be "unable" to defeat Obi-Wan or even have a particularly tough time doing so.

The ease Dooku bested Obi-Wan with shows Dooku could probably have defeated 2 ROTS Kenobi's, without a scratch to show for it. Could you really say the same about ROTS Anakin??

Also you keep missing the fact that Dooku did not effortlessly best Kenobi in Sabers.. He bested him effortlessly with the Force, whilst ROTS Anakin bested Dooku in Sabers.


Originally posted by Galan007
You realize Dooku could sense Anakin's raw power the entire time, right?

Not the enitre time. He was slowly realising as the fight went on.

Originally posted by Galan007
It's my opinion that you could put pretty much anyone in front of "t3h z0n3" Anakin, and he'd beat them.

Problem I have is if this is true then why did Lucas say "you have to be either Mace or Yoda to compete with the Emporer" ???

Originally posted by RagingBoner
You really made an important observation: We only see Anakin fight once in the movie as Anakin.

True but if this is the version we use, it should be noted it took him time to become his uber self in that fight. That would be a big factor in any versus thread.

Galan007
That's kind of where I was conflicted as well. It's my opinion that you could put pretty much anyone in front of "t3h z0n3" Anakin, and he'd beat them. So when someone puts "RotS Anakin" in a versus thread, without specifying which version/mindset is to be used, then which should we go to by default? Should we use the God-like Anakin who trounced Dooku with ease, or the drastically watered down Anakin who barely managed to stalemate Kenobi? There's really not too much of a gray/neutral area with him, lol.
Engrossed in a PDF of the novelization as I currently am, I'm finding that I truly appreciate Stover's metaphors about Anakin's fear and power and how they all come together to illustrate vividly just what's going on in his head and his heart. Per Stover, Anakin carries in himself a nuclear furnace that he has spent years struggling to keep contained, banked by walls of will fortified by his Jedi training. That struggle is only a partial success; smoke from that "smothered heart" fills his mind with clouds and thunder. When he finally lets those walls collapse and that furnace burns freely, all of that disappears, the crippling terror and mindless rage giving way to a focused fury that makes him unstoppable.

The balanced default would simply be Anakin as he been just prior to cutting loose. He is distracted by the conflict within, but even then indisputably formidable: relentless, enormously powerful, and literally tireless.

Indeed, I think it could be argued that the red-hot Darth Vader we see in the final act of Revenge of the Sith is, relatively speaking, Skywalker at his least capable. My recollection of the novelization lends itself to this interpretation as well, although I'll know as soon as I get to the rest of it later today.

EDIT: Also, Needa cameo is cool on multiple levels.

Originally posted by Eminence
Engrossed in a PDF of the novelization as I currently am, I'm finding that I truly appreciate Stover's metaphors about Anakin's fear and power and how they all come together to illustrate vividly just what's going on in his head and his heart. Per Stover, Anakin carries in himself a nuclear furnace that he has spent years struggling to keep contained, banked by walls of will fortified by his Jedi training. That struggle is only a partial success; smoke from that "smothered heart" fills his mind with clouds and thunder. When he finally lets those walls collapse and that furnace burns freely, all of that disappears, the crippling terror and mindless rage giving way to a focused fury that makes him unstoppable.

The balanced default would simply be Anakin as he been just prior to cutting loose. He is distracted by the conflict within, but even then indisputably formidable: relentless, enormously powerful, and literally tireless.

Indeed, I think it could be argued that the red-hot Darth Vader we see in the final act of Revenge of the Sith is, relatively speaking, Skywalker at his least capable. My recollection of the novelization lends itself to this interpretation as well, although I'll know as soon as I get to the rest of it later today.

Do you also appreciate how Palpatine is smarter, sexier, and better than everyone?

Anakin is far sexier. He is dashing, lean, and funny. Obi-Wan impersonation brought a smile to my face.

Honestly, reading through this book now I don't think I've ever actually read it before. They're all such better characters on paper than they got a chance to be on screen.

Now edit your post to acknowledge the brilliance of Needa's inclusion in the opening battle.

Eminence
Anakin is far sexier. He is dashing, lean, and funny. Obi-Wan impersonation brought a smile to my face.

Honestly, reading through this book now I don't think I've ever actually read it before. They're all such better characters on paper than they got a chance to be on screen.

Now edit your post to acknowledge the brilliance of Needa's inclusion in the opening battle.

Take note of how terrifying General Grievous is as opposed to the film and series versions.

Take note of how terrifying he is in this picture.

And by "series" I hope you aren't including Tartakovsky's Clone Wars. He was a demon in that, perhaps excessively so on the physical front but a truly threatening presence nonetheless.

Also, an awesome Darth Vader.

Originally posted by Eminence
Take note of how terrifying he is in this picture.

And by "series" I hope you aren't including Tartakovsky's Clone Wars. He was a demon in that, perhaps excessively so on the physical front but a truly threatening presence nonetheless.

Also, an awesome Darth Vader.

He's moar intimidating in his introduction in the novel than anywhere, ever. But those are cool pictures.

ESB is a great movie.

I accept the definition that "in the zone" Anakin is tapping his full potential. This makes his victory seem much more believable than a Makashi master simply being batted around. If Anakin's welling with the Force, he's probably harder to predict as well, so it makes his subtle maneuver that much more believable. Of course, you can't get any of this from the movie version, which is frustrating. And GL is hardly consistant in anything... Han shot first

But I still intend to point out that Anakin tapping his full potential is rare and almost entirely plot-driven in some cases. I remember in Jedi Trial he breaks loose and does a Force attack which is almost KotOR in scope. I wish I could remember details, but it's extremely difficult to want to re-read that book.

Without buffing himself with OMFG FUrce powah, I don't see Anakin typically overpowering Dooku with the Force.

Stealth Moose
ESB is a great movie.
!

Watch in HD, of course, 'tis mas shiny.

Adywan's edit is very pretty, but what he did to the Vader/Ben duel in unforgivable.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
The ease Dooku bested Obi-Wan with shows Dooku could probably have defeated 2 ROTS Kenobi's, without a scratch to show for it. Could you really say the same about ROTS Anakin?? Undoubtedly. Why? Because Anakin easily beat Dooku, who easily beat Kenobi. Anakin >> Dooku >> Kenobi. This is a very rare case where ABC logic is correct.

Remember, it's not like Anakin bested Dooku by dumb luck. He won because he began tapping the "nuclear furnace" of force energy at his disposal - and with that degree of power combined with the degree of mental clarity Anakin had at the time, there is really no one who could have stopped him. Tbh, it's hard to imagine any other character throughout SW mythos (sans the ridiculousness of NJO Luke, and the like) trouncing Dooku as effortlessly as Anakin did. /shrug

^ Since Dooku is among the very top tier of all time, that's saying something.

Exactly. Dooku is one of the most powerful all-around characters to have ever graced SW continuity. So for Anakin to beat him at all, let alone as easily as he did, shows us how ridiculously powerful he was at the time. Imo, you could have put 2 Dookus' (Dooki?) in front of him, and he would have steamrolled them both just the same. The kid was just on a completely different level.

Um... Anakin > Dooku > Kenobi...

Except it played out that, Kenobi > Anakin...

So it doesn't exactly work.

Again, the mental turmoil Anakin/Vader was going through at the time (ie. slaying numerous former Jedi colleagues, fighting his former master/best friend, feeling as though he was losing Padme, etc.) is why he was barely able to stalemate Kenobi. The film and novel depicted that much quite poetically, imo.

However, based on his previous battle with Dooku, we know that Anakin was capable of tooling guys VASTLY superior to Kenobi... When he wasn't letting his inner demons control him, that is.

which was literally always except for a few seconds against dooku... that's like saying Luke can TK the galaxy at any given time...

Originally posted by truejedi
which was literally always except for a few seconds against dooku... that's like saying Luke can TK the galaxy at any given time... We mentioned this before: Anakin only had one battle during RotS - and in that battle he showed us what he was capable of (trouncing Dooku is no small feat.) Once he adopted the guise of Darth Vader, however, his inner conflicts essentially neutered his power.... Made him unable to tap his full potential.

Had Vader been able to enter "t3h z0n3" on Mustafar, he would have treated Kenobi like a Padawan.

I think we should keep the distinction. "RotS" Light-side Anakin was being easily handled by Dooku. "RotS" Angry-Anakin was giving Dooku trouble. "Z0n3" Anakin is clear-headed and obliterated Dooku. And Vader is a hot-headed powerhouse.

Only two are ever worth mentioning (Z0n3 and Vader), but those other two still occurred. And since "Jedi" Anakin is what exists throughout the Clone Wars (for the most part), we can't very well write him off.

I disagree. As pointed out earlier, Anakin was a veritable juggernaut even prior to truly cutting loose. I'd argue that he was at least as effective a fighter then as he was when corrupted and manic on Mustafar.

except we have all of the CWC material to consider when discussing ROTS anakin as well... it isn't like we look at the fight with dooku in a vacuum.

Originally posted by Galan007
Exactly. Dooku is one of the most powerful all-around characters to have ever graced SW continuity. So for Anakin to beat him at all, let alone as easily as he did, shows us how ridiculously powerful he was at the time. Imo, you could have put 2 Dookus' (Dooki?) in front of him, and he would have steamrolled them both just the same. The kid was just on a completely different level.

I used to think this too. But it's kind of contradicted by Lucas's statement "you have to be either mace or yoda to compete with the emporer"..

Also we never saw ROTS Anakin at any point Light or Dark, Uber or not, defend himself against a Force attack of the type Dooku is capable of unleashing. So there isnt actually any evidence he could defend against it.

Whilst we do know Dark Side Anakin could not overpower Obi-Wan in the Force, and Jedi Anakin got Force choked by Ventress

Originally posted by truejedi
except we have all of the CWC material to consider when discussing ROTS anakin as well... it isn't like we look at the fight with dooku in a vacuum. That wouldn't be RotS Anakin, that would be TCW Anakin. Remember, RotS Anakin is a very specific 'version' of the character.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
I used to think this too. But it's kind of contradicted by Lucas's statement "you have to be either mace or yoda to compete with the emporer"..

Also we never saw ROTS Anakin at any point Light or Dark, Uber or not, defend himself against a Force attack of the type Dooku is capable of unleashing. So there isnt actually any evidence he could defend against it. Okay? I didn't say Dooku was "the" most powerful force user throughout the mythos, I said he was "one of" the most powerful. Big difference.

As was mentioned before: the novelization made it pretty clear that Dooku's power was, essentially, rendered useless against the "nuclear furnace" of force energy that was Anakin. Had Dooku felt that using his offensive force powers against Anakin would have turned the tide (assuming he would have gotten the chance to use said powers, of course) he surely would have attempted to do so... Instead of, you know, dying.

Originally posted by Galan007
Okay? I didn't say Dooku was "the" most powerful force user throughout the mythos, I said he was "one of" the most powerful. Big difference.

As was mentioned before: the novelization made it pretty clear that Dooku's power was, essentially, rendered useless against the "nuclear furnace" of force energy that was Anakin.

Yes but you must admit anyone that can make Count Dooku's power rendered useless should be capable of competing with Sidious right??


Originally posted by Galan007
Had Dooku felt that using his offensive force powers against Anakin would have turned the tide (assuming he would have gotten the chance to use said powers, of course) he surely would have attempted to do so... Instead of, you know, dying.

You see thats my point, did he even get a chance to use his Force powers offensively against Anakin??

Dooku was busy disposing of Obi-Wan, and as soon as he was finished Skywalker was all over him with his blade.. At least that seemed to be the case as in the movie.

Even when the novel states Dooku's knowledge of the Force is useless, it could be because Dooku was not getting a chance anymore at this point in the fight to use his superior command of the Force.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Yes but you must admit anyone that can make Count Dooku's power rendered useless should be capable of competing with Sidious right??




You see thats my point, did he even get a chance to use his Force powers offensively against Anakin??

Dooku was busy disposing of Obi-Wan, and as soon as he was finished Skywalker was all over him with his blade.. At least that seemed to be the case as in the movie.

Even when the novel states Dooku's knowledge of the Force is useless, it could be because Dooku was not getting a chance anymore at this point in the fight to use his superior command of the Force.

So far as the novel is concerned, I think this stamenet was made after Anakin had approached zone status, and therefore after a very prolonged duel in which Dooku had consumed most of his Force reserve. Remember Dooku decided well into the battle that he had had enough playing around, and decided to turn it up several notches. Dooku had probably burned much of his reserve by this time, not expecting such a surge in power by Anakin. Had Dooku decided to go all-out from the get-go, then perhaps we would have had a different outcome. Remember I mean this within the context of the novel, not the movie.

Anyway, I don't have a great deal of time to formulate much of a response to anything as it is beautiful outside today, and I'm about to fire up the grill then hit the swimming pool. You ppl need to take advantage of the weather too. Barbeque chicken Get in mah belly!!!!!!!!

Why wouldn't "zone" Anakin be able to defend against Dooku's force attacks? We see him defend against them during their battle on tatooine, while he wasn't in "the zone".

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Why wouldn't "zone" Anakin be able to defend against Dooku's force attacks? We see him defend against them during their battle on tatooine, while he wasn't in "the zone".

Good point S66! We Anakin battle Dooku to a stalemate during this confrontation, even as Dooku begins the battle with a FL attack. I must have forgot.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H9b6sCQW4n0&feature=related

The good Count also seems to be relying on MagnaGuards against Anakin in TCW's season 4 trailer. I hope not.

Originally posted by Jinsoku Takai
Good point S66! We Anakin battle Dooku to a stalemate during this confrontation, even as Dooku begins the battle with a FL attack. I must have forgot.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H9b6sCQW4n0&feature=related

I wuldnt really call that a stalemate, unless Anakin being dropped on his ass 3 times is considered stalemating..

The one time Anakin dropped Dooku was PIS, cause Dooku was still holding his hologram, so was obviously taken by surprise.

Also the 3rd time Dooku puts Anakin on the floor he doesn't take a good oppurtunity to kill him, but instead gets out his hologram to gloat.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Why wouldn't "zone" Anakin be able to defend against Dooku's force attacks? We see him defend against them during their battle on tatooine, while he wasn't in "the zone".

He never once defended against Force attacks, unless dropping to the floor and losing his weapon is considered defending.(Except blocking the FL, but he seemed to struggle to even do that, and that was Dooku shooting one handed!)

Also how do we know he wasn't in the zone in that fight?? Considering later on he has trouble taking Ventress whose no match for Dooku. In fact he loses to Ventress in a cut scene from the same movie!

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Yes but you must admit anyone that can make Count Dooku's power rendered useless should be capable of competing with Sidious right?? Likely so. Personally, I don't think Palpatine would have been able to defeat Dooku as easily as Anakin did. Remember, Dooku was able to give Yoda himself (the same fella Palpatine tried running away from to avoid a conflict) a very good fight. /shrug.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Even when the novel states Dooku's knowledge of the Force is useless, it could be because Dooku was not getting a chance anymore at this point in the fight to use his superior command of the Force. ...Which would still mean that Dooku's force powers were rendered useless against Anakin. Like I said before: with a lightsaber, RotS Anakin was nigh-unbeatable.

Originally posted by RagingBoner
The good Count also seems to be relying on MagnaGuards against Anakin in TCW's season 4 trailer. I hope not.

This series seems to be show that the good guys are vastly superior to teh villians at every turn. I wouldn't be surprised if Anakin putting Dooku on his ass in the movie wasn't legitimate.

Originally posted by RagingBoner
The good Count also seems to be relying on MagnaGuards against Anakin in TCW's season 4 trailer. I hope not.

OMG! If thats true then between that and the CW movie fight, It makes one wonder what on earth made Dooku think he could take on both Obi-Wan and Anakin by ROTS.

Also makes Anakin's statement "My powers have doubled since the last time we met count" seem a bit strange..

Originally posted by Nephthys
This series seems to be show that the good guys are vastly superior to teh villians at every turn.

Well Savge Opress might change that at least. Also Ventress has been pretty bad ass of late.

Originally posted by Nephthys
I wouldn't be surprised if Anakin putting Dooku on his ass in the movie wasn't legitimate.

Well if this and the needing magnaguards is true, then there would be no doubt Dooku could not copy Savage's feat against the Obi-Wan/Anakin duo

Ventress also got her ass kicked by an unarmed Kenobi in the movie.

Basically that movie was terrible.