A Magnaguard vs. Darth Nihilus (Sabers only)

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axel_jovan
Saber-only fight.

Who takes this, a Magnaguard or supposedly the most powerful Sith Lord evah?

Setting: Mos Eisley Cantina

Discuss.

Q99
Even if Nihilus isn't the strongest at sabers, he's still not going to be taken down by a single Magnaguard. Nihilus wins 10/10.

Make it more than one and there's a danger.

truejedi
Hm.. interesting though. How about all 5 copies of IG-88?

Galan007
Originally posted by Q99
Make it more than one and there's a danger. Didn't n00b-Ahsoka slay like 2-3 of them single handedly?

I can't imagine Nihilus doing worse than her against them... confused

axel_jovan
Originally posted by Q99
Make it more than one and there's a danger.
Really, I thought it was a decent match-up.



Alright.
I change it to Ahsoka vs. Nihilus.
Sabers only.
Who wins?

ares834
Ahsoka.

truejedi
yeah, all sabers only fights are going to go to known characters..

Black bolt z
Nihilus easy.

truejedi
I don't see how Nihilus would pose a threat with a lightsaber to a magnaguard?

RagingBoner
If Nihilus was simply a dark side spirit before his death, how was he killed by the Exile and co.?

truejedi
wasn't his spirit woven into his clothing? Which can be destroyed. (and how do you know he WAS killed by Exile and Co? he just ceased to be a threat to the galaxy, i believe that mask was still alive, was it not?

RagingBoner
tj
wasn't his spirit woven into his clothing? Which can be destroyed. (and how do you know he WAS killed by Exile and Co? he just ceased to be a threat to the galaxy, i believe that mask was still alive, was it not?

The Ravager exploded, tho.

truejedi
the death star exploding didn't kill Sidious's spirit. Luke could feel, it years later.

RagingBoner
tj
the death star exploding didn't kill Sidious's spirit. Luke could feel, it years later.

Right, but if the spirit was contained in the armor and the armor was destroyed, wouldn't that destroy the spirit too? If it wouldn't, why place it within the armor at all?

Palpatine's spirit wasn't anchored to anything, unlike Nihilus or Ragnos or whomever.

Lord Lucien
I think Nihilus was still a physical being when KotOR II was released, and he was made in to a spirit some time afterward. Inconsistency in Star Wars. Never heard of that before...

RagingBoner
Lucien
Never heard of that before...

The damn ambiguity of Canadian sarcasm!

Lord Lucien
We had to develop it to put up with you machismo, in-your-face 'Mericans.

RagingBoner
Lucien
We had to develop it to put up with you machismo, in-your-face 'Mericans.

It's best that you did. It's the only reason we tolerate the existence of you French-lites.

Once we expunge China, you'll be next.

Lord Lucien
I figured as much. Though the French thing is quite hurtful. Most of us up here are ashamed of our Separatist brethren. We're one more senatorial kidnapping away from a full-blown Clone Wars of our own. And we've been establishing good relations with New Zealanders just in case.

Zampanó

truejedi
good point. So making the thread is kinda pointless.

Igon Flombaigne

Jinsoku Takai
Guess who's back?

Nephthys
Bin Laden?

CURSE YOU ZOMBIE BIN LADEN! YOU SMELL OF HAM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Jinsoku Takai
Originally posted by Nephthys
Bin Laden?

Damn you!! Get out of my head.

Nephthys
-J1HqdQl6dw&feature=related

me - 1 you - 0

Jinsoku Takai
You EVIL, twisted, hell-spawn!! no expression

Nephthys
I will hunt you down like the dirty monkey you are and force you to wear a moose skin and ride a greased piggy while singing folk tunes. I am watching someone ride the piggy as I write this. The piggy is smelly!

Jinsoku Takai
Like how I was riding your mom lastnight while humming zippity-doo-dah? wink ....... beer

Nephthys
Well yes actally, it is rather li- HEY!

Jinsoku Takai
Originally posted by truejedi
This is true. So we could say the thread is pointless. Or, we could say that statistically speaking, if I told you that a team was better than 80 percent of known teams, and we know nothing about the other team, there is a strong statistical chance that the known team would be better than the unknown team.

For instance, if you said, the 98' Bulls are playing an unknown team, the unknown team is going to lose, every time.

Bad logic TJ. The '98 Bulls lost 20 regular season games. See how that works?

truejedi
they lost 20 times, but i'm still statistically speaking, more likely to be right if I pick them to win over an unknown team. Not bad logic, you just misunderstood my point. Sure, they have a chance to be beaten, but if you were betting money, you would put it on the bulls. (i meant the 96 bulls anyway, i screwed that up...)

Zampanó
Originally posted by Igon Flombaigne
It would depend on whether the question were solely open to a certainty or to a full range of probability.

In probability theory, in the face of an unknown you would assume an average value, so when confronted with a team as relatively good as Manchester United, a team so beyond the average as Manchester United, the likelihood is that they would emerge victorious against a completely unknown side.
In probability theory, if you knew the average value of an unknown variable, you would also know the variance of that value (i.e. standard deviation, distribution, and interquartile range).

That's a hell of a lot more information than we've got about lightsaber ability for any era, let alone the overall arc of the mythos.

Jinsoku Takai
Originally posted by truejedi
they lost 20 times, but i'm still statistically speaking, more likely to be right if I pick them to win over an unknown team. Not bad logic, you just misunderstood my point. Sure, they have a chance to be beaten, but if you were betting money, you would put it on the bulls. (i meant the 96 bulls anyway, i screwed that up...)

big grin

Igon Flombaigne
Well an average could still be ascertained for simply the data we have available to us.

Not that I agree that Nihilus is in fact a complete unknown in this regard anyway.

truejedi
with a saber? do tell what you know about his saber abilities.

Igon Flombaigne
We know about his prowess with the Force and the manner and extent to which it would likely contribute to his effectiveness with a lightsaber; we know that he had been a battle hardened Jedi (I think?) and may have likely retained his technical proficiency with the weapon following the incident on Malachor V; we know that he carried one around with him with the presumable intention of using it in a combat scenario.

There are multiple examples within the mythos of extremely powerful Force Users with seemingly little to no training or recent practise with the weapon performing more effectively with the weapon then those that are highly trained and skilled with it, and the idea that prowess with the Force is the real determining factor in a lightsaber engagement is a principle that's echoed by numerous lightsaber trainers and experts. Given that Darth Nihilus, in many ways, has demonstrated himself to be one of the most powerful Force Users, if not the single most powerful Force User, in the entirety of the mythologies, and has demonstrated at least some level of training/experience with the weapon and an inclination to use it, I feel it would be unfair to immediately label him an unknown and assume either an average value for his ability or that he would immediately be defeated by anybody with more directly realised abilities with the weapon.

axel_jovan
Originally posted by Igon Flombaigne
We know about his prowess with the Force and the manner and extent to which it would likely contribute to his effectiveness with a lightsaber;
Um, ...likely? What makes you think so? Please elaborate.


We know that he carried one around with him with the presumable intention of using it in a combat scenario.,
Immaterial. You may carry an axe with intension to use it in combat and then fail horribly to do so.


There are multiple examples within the mythos of extremely powerful Force Users with seemingly little to no training or recent practise with the weapon performing more effectively with the weapon then those that are highly trained and skilled with it,
What are these multiple examples? Care to give some of them.


and the idea that prowess with the Force is the real determining factor in a lightsaber engagement is a principle that's echoed by numerous lightsaber trainers and experts.
Kas'im disagrees.


Given that Darth Nihilus, in many ways, has demonstrated himself to be one of the most powerful Force Users, if not the single most powerful Force User, in the entirety of the mythologies, and has demonstrated at least some level of training/experience with the weapon and an inclination to use it,
Where have you seen him demonstrate anything with a lightsaber?

Nephthys
More Force = better in combat.



Luke Skywalker. Anakin Skywalker. Darth Bane. Darth Sidious.




Um, no he doesn't. He was the one who explicitly said that the Force is the deciding, and most important factor in lightsaber combat. He only said that its possible for someone more skilled in lightsaber combat to beat one stronger in the Force, and then later showed how that is so when he pulled a second saber on Bane's ass. As it is, Force > Skill almost every time.

axel_jovan
Originally posted by Nephthys
More Force = better in combat.
But not better with a lightsaber....


Luke Skywalker. Anakin Skywalker. Darth Bane. Darth Sidious.
Luke and Anakin in the beginning of their training had the potential to be uber-force users. They were not yet N. class force-users. They were first good in sabers, then become powerful in the force.
Bane was good, but still was losing to force-infant Kas'im.
And...what is Sidious doing on your list?


Um, no he doesn't. He was the one who explicitly said that the Force is the deciding, and most important factor in lightsaber combat. He only said that its possible for someone more skilled in lightsaber combat to beat one stronger in the Force, and then later showed how that is so when he pulled a second saber on Bane's ass.
Exactly, Kas'im was beating Bane, even though Bane was uber in the force. In sabers Bane was fvcked.

Q99
I assume Traya taught him enough to cut with it since he carried one around, but given his other powers Nihilus could've gotten one weekend session for all we know.

Eminence
axel
But not better with a lightsaber....
?

A sharper attunement to the Force brings with it a greater ability to exceed physical limits (preternatural strength, agility, speed, reflexes, etc.) and command enhanced precognitive powers. The merits of these in the use of a lightsaber should be patently obvious even without the myriad examples of prodigiously talented individuals grasping the subtleties of the art and becoming competent duelists far quicker than others.


Exactly. You think an elite Force-user will usually have less relative mastery of enhanced physical and precognitive faculties than a talented neophyte?


As I believe has been asserted and credibly evidenced by Gideon, as of Revenge of the Sith the Chancellor was likely well out of practice with a lightsaber. He would obviously not have needed to instruct Count Dooku in its use, trained no other students at the time, was thoroughly occupied with his dual roles as Supreme Chancellor of the Republic and shadowy puppeteer of the heads of the Confederacy of Independent Systems, and kept his lightsaber sealed in a neuranium statue until just before his duel with Mace Windu and company.

Of the four Jedi who confronted him in his office, at least three are inarguably swordsmen of high caliber. Kit Fisto once got the better of General Grievous in single combat and was only forced into retreat by the intervention of three of his MagnaGuards, and Agen Kolar was regarded by the Jedi Council and Mace Windu himself as one of the finest swordsmen in the Order. The Clone Wars ensured that their weapons saw very frequent use.

Palpatine's ability to fight on par with the best of them and slaughter the rest was a result of his vastly superior strength in the Force; even without assaulting them with it directly he was able to use it fight on a level beyond their ability to contend with.


That should have been a concession of the point.

Your unfamiliarity with the sequence being what it is, this summary should bring you sufficiently up to speed.

truejedi
Yeah, Neb, sorry, but that reply deserves a big
No U.

There was absolutely nothing that could be quantified. We have no idea... Sidious should have beat Mace's ass according to your logic. Mace shouldn't have been stalemated by Boba Fett according to your logic. That was bad.

RagingBoner
tj
Mace shouldn't have been stalemated by Boba Fett according to your logic.

This is not the case and has been addressed here.

truejedi
i don't believe that CWC episode was the issue. it was some comic book where Mace fought Boba with lightsabers. that didn't happen in CWC.

RagingBoner
tj
i don't believe that CWC episode was the issue. it was some comic book where Mace fought Boba with lightsabers. that didn't happen in CWC.

Right, but take note of what Filoni said: Fett uses bombs and traps in the cartoon because he can't take on Windu directly. This, in addition to coming from Lucas, is part of the T-canon series, which trumps the C-canon Boba Fett: Pursuit.

truejedi
right, but Fett isn't always exactly at the same level of skill... Just because he couldnt' take him on in CWC doesn't mean he couldn't at another time....

Eminence
truejedi
Yeah, Neb, sorry, but that reply deserves a big
No U.

There was absolutely nothing that could be quantified. We have no idea... Sidious should have beat Mace's ass according to your logic.
... You mean like how he beat the collective asses of Kolar, Tiin, and Fisto in under eight seconds?

Not killing a man who can move so fast to vanish from sight, is strong enough to rip apart steel battle armor with his bare hands, commands mastery of a combat style that allows him to draw power from his own darkness and that of his foe, and has a unique affinity for finding fault lines in everything through the Force is not a mark against Palpatine, especially when one actually considers the circumstances under which that duel occurred.

I don't necessarily agree that we can gather more than a very vague idea of what Nihilus should be able to do with a lightsaber, but the aspect of Neb's argument dealing with the benefits of a strong Force-connection is sound.

EDIT: What comic did this lightsaber duel happen in? I've never heard of it and I don't think Wookiepedia has either.

RagingBoner
tj
right, but Fett isn't always exactly at the same level of skill... Just because he couldnt' take him on in CWC doesn't mean he couldn't at another time....

no expression

Did you bother to listen to the section of the podcast that I politely indicated to you on that thread?

The reason that Fett can't take on Windu directly is because he's "a little kid." Filoni then ridicules the idea that Fett fight Windu unless he "goes about it in a very subversive way" and mentions George's directive of using "bombs and explosives" as a way to "overcome the fact Mace is an incredibly trained warrior."

Between the time of this and Windu's death.... Fett's still a little kid.

RagingBoner
E
EDIT: What comic did this lightsaber duel happen in? I've never heard of it and I don't think Wookiepedia has either.

It's a book: Boba Fett: Pursuit of Peace.

Eminence
I believe I read that one. I recall Fett attacking Windu with a gun (flechette?) but not a lightsaber.

RagingBoner
E
I believe I read that one. I recall Fett attacking Windu with a gun (flechette?) but not a lightsaber.

It's been ages since I've read it, but I know that Fett assaults Windu in the Chancellor's office, Windu repeatedly orders Fett to stand down, and just as the fight intensifies, Palpatine intervenes.

It doesn't matter, though, because the words from Filoni and instructions from Lucas make it abundantly clear that Fett wouldn't be able to directly fight Mace.

AthenasTrgrFngr
well boba didnt win so there isnt really a contradiction imo

RagingBoner
AthenasTrgrFngr
well boba didnt win so there isnt really a contradiction imo

I think Filoni makes it pretty clear that Boba's not even in Mace's league; I don't think it's simply an issue of "Fett can't beat Mace" but that Fett can't fight Mace at all on any real even footing, which makes sense for a number of reasons.

AthenasTrgrFngr
you dont think "boba cant fight mace in a direct fight" and "boba would be annihilated in seconds by mace in a direct fight" is kind of a stretch?

RagingBoner
AthenasTrgrFngr
you dont think "boba cant fight mace in a direct fight" and "boba would be annihilated in seconds by mace in a direct fight" is kind of a stretch?

Not at all, especially when you listen to Filoni ridicule the idea and his reasons for doing so.
He first introduces the fact that Boba's "a little kid"; being equipped with state-of-the-art armor and weaponry does not an adult make. He then explains that George wanted Fett to use "bombs and explosives" to allow Fett to overcome the fact that Mace is a highly trained warrior. In Filoni's own words, Boba can only achieve his ends through a highly subversive manner.

But even if I disregard all that, why on Earth should I believe that a competent but woefully inexperienced pre-teen would stand a chance against in a direct fight against the second most powerful Jedi Master in the galaxy?

I'm not inclined to drink from Karen Traviss's kool-aid. Mace is out of Fett's league.

Nephthys
ninja'd by Eminence. What a guy.



Faster, stronger, able to react quicker, better precognition, better able to block the precog of their opponents. In short, better at everything to do with lightsaber combat except technical skill. And as teh Bane vs Kas'im fight showed us, all teh above > technical skills.



When they tapped into that potential (vs Vader/Dooku) all teh skill and experience and ability of their opponents was washed away before their pure Force strength.



Er, no.

Luke was a retard with a baseball bat. Anakin, while skilled, sure, was nowhere close to Dooku's level. But in the end, non of that mattered.



Because he didn't know how to fight dual-lightsabers. Before then he was easily forcing the vastly more technically skilled Kas'im back due to his raw Force power.



Sidious beat 3 of teh finest swordsmen in Jedi history and drew with mother****ing Mace Windu due to his strength in teh Force and raw combat abilities. Not because of technical skill.



No, in sabers Bane was kicking his fvcking ass. Then Kas'im pulled the second saber out and because Bane hadn't even slightly been taught how to fight dual-saber style, Bane started to lose. It was only due to this very speciic and obviously planned weakness in Bane's technique that he was losing to Kas'im in sabers. Before that point Bane was overpowering him in lightsaber combat through sheer Force-strength.

RE: Blaxican
I have a hard time believing an 8 year old can last longer then a few seconds against Mace, as well.

I still think it's canon though. The only reason Boba could possible do that well is because Mace must have been simply holding back. Something tells me he wasn't in a hurry to cut an 8 year old in half.

Nephthys
Don't underestimate Star Wars children:

http://the-last-word.net/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/anakin_skywalker_1024.jpg

http://fc05.deviantart.net/fs25/f/2008/130/7/2/Ahsoka_Tano_by_katiecookie.jpg

http://images.wikia.com/starwars/images/6/64/Ben_Skywalker.JPG


Edit: Oh god why did I google search Ahsoka! herbha-son2

Lucius
Originally posted by Nephthys

Edit: Oh god why did I google search Ahsoka! herbha-son2

http://versatile1.files.wordpress.com/2008/09/pedobear.png

Nephthys
http://www.demotivationalposters.org/image/demotivational-poster/1012/ahsoka-tano-star-wars-poster-day-cubby-demotivational-posters-1292626314.jpg

http://i.somethingawful.com/forumsystem/emoticons/emot-suicide.gif

axel_jovan
laughing

axel_jovan

axel_jovan

Slash_KMC
Just saying that N. is good with a lightsaber because he's powerful with the Force is not the way to go here. Have we ever even seen him use a lightsaber?



yehno,,, jailbait kills nihiluz

Zampanó
Originally posted by Slash_KMC
Just saying that N. is good with a lightsaber because he's powerful with the Force is not the way to go here. Have we ever even seen him use a lightsaber?



yehno,,, jailbait kills nihiluz


facepalm

Quick, who wins: Dayton Triangles or the Brooklyn Dodgers?

the correct answer is "i don't know"

Jinsoku Takai

Zampanó
I will award you two cookies, minus one cookie for every time you had to switch from the page where you had wikipedia open to the page where you were writing your response.

I think you owe me a bunch of cookies.


That was a cool post, bro. mad props

Slash_KMC

truejedi
yeah... statistically, a good fighter is going to be better than an unknown... lots of people in galactic history, and a very low percentage would be able to take out a magnaguard with a lightsaber..

Lord Lucien
Most Jedi we get to know about have some degree of Protagonist Protection that will help them destroy MagnaGuards.

RE: Blaxican
Manganaurds are literally fodder. I could probably kill a magnagaurd, going by their feats.

truejedi
Blax, they are actually described very impressively in LOE. check it out. no way your average citizen could take one out.

RE: Blaxican
Don't really care how they're described, only care for their feats.

I'll check it out, though.

RagingBoner
Blax
Don't really care how they're described, only care for their feats.

Both facets are important for an accurate assessment of a character's abilities.
Otherwise, one could argue that even though you regard the dueling feats of a MagnaGuard to be sub-par, they're better than nothing: Which is exactly what Nihilus has going for him in the same area.

RE: Blaxican
Originally posted by RagingBoner
Both facets are important for an accurate assessment of a character's abilities.

No they're not, descriptions tend to be vague and have hyperbole or metaphors, the same is true of quotes. Feats can be absorbed from an objective point of view. The only thing that can be dubious is the context surrounding them.

If he's never shown any kind of skill what-so-ever with a lightsaber, why should anyone assume he has some?

RagingBoner
Blax
No they're not,

Sure they are.

Let's use Marka Ragnos as an example; you should know better than most that I completely oppose the idea that he's the undisputed most powerful Sith in history simply because of his standing in the ancient Sith Empire. But given what little we know about him, I think that there are those who have made excellent arguments through use of quotes and descriptions to contend that Ragnos is one of history's strongest Sith.

Do you agree?



Because while he might not be as technically proficient in the forms as a MagnaGuard, he is established to possess an unnaturally strong connection to the Force. (You yourself have gone on record believing Nihilus is the most powerful character in the mythos.) And we can see from precedence (Palpatine vs. Windu and co.) that a more powerful Force user can contend with and outclass more technically skilled opponents.

RE: Blaxican
Originally posted by RagingBoner
Sure they are.

Let's use Marka Ragnos as an example; you should know better than most that I completely oppose the idea that he's the undisputed most powerful Sith in history simply because of his standing in the ancient Sith Empire. But given what little we know about him, I think that there are those who have made excellent arguments through use of quotes and descriptions to contend that Ragnos is one of history's strongest Sith.

Do you agree?

No. I don't think him or any of the Sith/Jedi in his era are that impressive, compared to the jedi in generations beyond it. lol





Which is why I think he can destroy a fodder Magngagaurd. Notice that that argument is not based upon any hearsay or relative interpretations of quotations, though.

ares834
Originally posted by RE: Blaxican
No. I don't think him or any of the Sith/Jedi in his era are that impressive, compared to the jedi in generations beyond it. lol


thumb up

RagingBoner
Blax
No. I don't think him or any of the Sith/Jedi in his era are that impressive, compared to the jedi in generations beyond it. lol

no expression

May the cleansing wrath of Janus and the German purify your tainted sight.




The argument is based on inference, however; Nihilus has a powerful connection to the Force and so we infer that it would be advantageous in a duel against an opponent that may have superior skill.

On the other hand, Kas'im's technical skill was sufficient to dominate Bane, despite the latter's vastly superior Force strength. So we also have precedence that might allow a MagnaGuard to defeat someone of Nihilus's caliber.

Personally, I think Nihilus would stomp the MagnaGuard -- but if we go by combat/dueling feats alone (which is what you seem to suggest), Nihilus loses.

RE: Blaxican
Originally posted by RagingBoner
no expression

May the cleansing wrath of Janus and the German purify your tainted sight.

Every discussion I've had with Nai on the subject has ended the same way.

Nai: Surely you agree that it's not out of the question that "ancient sith" would be possible of _____?

Blax: It's not out of the question. It's also not out of the question for me to shoot flames out of my ass and use the thrust to achieve flight, but "it's possible" doesn't mean much in a debate that is based upon substantiation.

And then we fist bump and either agree to disagree or Beefington says something retarded and Nai's focus changes to that.






If we go by combat feats alone, we come to the conclusion that we have no way of gauging Nihlius lightsaber ability, because he's never been in a situation in which he's had to put them to the test, therefore at best this can end in a no-contest. Similar to my belief in God, I believe that Nilhius could handily defeat a Magnagaurd. You won't see me provide an actual argument for it, though, because there's none to be had.

RagingBoner
Blax
Similar to my belief in God, I believe that Nilhius could handily defeat a Magnagaurd. You won't see me provide an actual argument for it, though, because there's none to be had.

thumb up

Lord Lucien
Blax wins this month's award for Best Point made.

DarknessLover
What if Nihilus wielded his lightsaber telekinetically. His Force power should compensate his lack of feats with the lightsaber.

UltimateAnomaly
Originally posted by DarknessLover
What if Nihilus wielded his lightsaber telekinetically. His Force power should compensate his lack of feats with the lightsaber.

That'd work if he had shown an understanding of lightsaber combat. Using the force to move around a lightsaber in a coherent manner is far harder than having the saber in your hands and twirling it around. Hence why Traya is zomgawesomesauce because she can levitate 3 and fight reasonably well with them, though this perhaps would come under game mechanics.
Since this is saber combat, I'd probably give this to the MagnaGuard.

Arhael
Sabers only? You want Nihilus to starve to death? 0_o
Unless, he can somehow get power from drinking strongest beverages of cantina, it's just cruel!

DARTH POWER
This thread shows how the "comparing feats only" argument to decide who is better is flawed.

Yes going by saber feats only a magnaguard would beat any jedi or sith we haven't seen in a Saber fight, until we see them beat someone.

The way I see it is not only is that an obviously flawed assumption, but I could put that same argument the other way:

Any Jedi or Sith who we have not seen in a Saber fight can beat Mace, Sidious or Yoda in a Saber fight, until we see said Jedi/Sith lose a Saber fight.

See how that works.

Arhael
Why you, guys, say that Nihilus has no lightsaber feats?
In game on hard mode you constantly need to heal yourself and sometimes swap characters to survive his lightsaber attacks!

Nephthys
Not if you set a half hundred mines up before talking to him and then run back past them. Works every time.

Stealth Moose
Youtube or GTFO.

Zampanó
Originally posted by Arhael
Why you, guys, say that Nihilus has no lightsaber feats?
In game on hard mode you constantly need to heal yourself and sometimes swap characters to survive his lightsaber attacks!
This is false.

That game should not have ever been difficult.
Edit: Except for my plasma torch runthrough, that was fairly difficult.]

Rookwood
DE Sidious fights the Magnaguard and wins with difficulty. big grin

Dark-Kenshin
Magnaguard solos Nihilus and Vitiate simultaneously in pure sabers.

MythLord
A MagnaGuard gave Obi a decent fight.
Better than Nihilus, tbh.

XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
A magnaguard in pure sabers is better than Nihilus, but not Vitiate.

Nephthys
Nah, Nihilus would beat one. Dudes way too powerful.

XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Ehh, probably. Just trying to highlight that Vitiate can indeed duel. smile

Nephthys
It doesn't need highlighting. He did a fancy twirl in Act1.

XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Ziost tbh. smile

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