rule of Two Broken Dureing Clone Wars

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Naga Sado
Drath Sid. has broken the rule of two so many times in so many ways!Firt he allows Dooku recruite skorr,sora,ventress,vos,and mauls brother!Then he trys to develope an army of siths!WHY!?

Lord Lucien
Because once his rule was solidified he likely didn't care about maintaining tradition anymore.

Galan007
Originally posted by Naga Sado
Dooku recruite skorr,sora,ventress,vos,and mauls brother!Then he trys to develope an army of siths!WHY!? Can you really call them apprentices in the literal sense? I always viewed them as would-be apprentices - ie. beings who desperately wanted to be accepted as formal Sith apprentices, so they followed Dooku's every order in hopes of attaining that position.

Personally, I'd just call them force adept assassins employed by the Sith. Nothing more. /shrug

RagingBoner
He refers to them as Dark Side Adepts, I think. Or Dark Acolytes. Or Dark Somethings.

Q99
Yea. The only ones who got the good Sith training were Maul, Dooku, and Anakin.

Lucius
Really it just comes down to semantics. Ventress is as capable as any Sith, but she's not, because Palpatine said so and Dooku is disinclined to disagree.

Eminence
Naga Sado
Drath Sid. has broken the rule of two so many times in so many ways!Firt he allows Dooku recruite skorr,sora,ventress,vos,and mauls brother!Then he trys to develope an army of siths!WHY!?
Unless you're referring to Dark Empire or similar material, Palpatine never actually intended to form an army of Sith. That idea was simply another lie he led Count Dooku to believe was part of his grand design.

Dooku's many recruits are just what he calls them: acolytes. They are renegade Force-users whose talents he can make use of; he never imparts to them the secrets of the Sith, and with the exception of Opress I don't believe he ever even spent much time instructing them personally, relying on the competency and aggression that led them into his service to begin with.

Jinsoku Takai
Originally posted by Eminence
Unless you're referring to Dark Empire or similar material, Palpatine never actually intended to form an army of Sith. That idea was simply another lie he led Count Dooku to believe was part of his grand design.

Dooku's many recruits are just what he calls them: acolytes. They are renegade Force-users whose talents he can make use of; he never imparts to them the secrets of the Sith, and with the exception of Opress I don't believe he ever even spent much time instructing them personally, relying on the competency and aggression that led them into his service to begin with.

I'd wager that he spent a fair amount of time instructing Ventress as well, considering the fact that she utilizes Makashi (albeit in an unrefined manner) as noted by Luminara Unduli.

Q99
Originally posted by Jinsoku Takai
I'd wager that he spent a fair amount of time instructing Ventress as well, considering the fact that she utilizes Makashi (albeit in an unrefined manner) as noted by Luminara Unduli.

Makashi isn't secret sith knowledge though.

Ventress was teased with some training, but would never get the good stuff that'd really increase her power unless one of the top two died and she got to take her place.



It's too bad she wasn't born in the Legacy era, she'd have actually gotten more of what she wanted from the One Sith.

Jinsoku Takai
Originally posted by Q99
Makashi isn't secret sith knowledge though.

Ventress was teased with some training, but would never get the good stuff that'd really increase her power unless one of the top two died and she got to take her place.



It's too bad she wasn't born in the Legacy era, she'd have actually gotten more of what she wanted from the One Sith.

I know. I was just responding to E's comment that Dooku spent significant time training Oppress, but not Ventress. My point is that he likely spent a good amount of time training her as well. It's all rather academic. However I was bored and figured I'd comment.

Q99
Ah, I see. Yea, personally I'd think Ventress has had more training, just off-screen.

Darth Truculent
The other 'Sith' were little more than weapons and agents. Ventress was never meant to replace Dooku or Palpatine. In TPM, Palpatine's objective was to eventually turn Anakin because he recognized his potential. After all he stated "we'll be watching your career closely."

Eminence
Jinsoku Takai
I'd wager that he spent a fair amount of time instructing Ventress as well, considering the fact that she utilizes Makashi (albeit in an unrefined manner) as noted by Luminara Unduli.
Ah. I was unaware of this.

DARTH POWER
Well Sidious didn't mind Dooku having assassins/soldiers. Like Greivous, Durge. I guess from Sidious's point of view Ventress was just another one.

But the second he sensed her force powers getting beyond a certain level, he ordered Dooku to kill her. Whilst Dooku of course was training her as a Sith apprentice to overthrow Sidious.

Black bolt z
I don't believe he did. And even if he did since when does sidious give a shit about sith tradition? He killed his master in his sleep for cripes sake. Your supposed to fight them face to face.

ares834
Says who? Bane? In fact Bane actually restricted the Sith which is against their code.

Nephthys
Well, its really less of a code and more like.... guidelines. pirate

Q99
Yea. When telling Holocrons about the One Sith, Krayt had bad luck with the ones he grabbed. Get Sidious's and it would've been, "Sure, dude, whatever, as long as you mess Jedi up!"

ares834
Which is why I agree with Sids. As long as it works its all good. Admittedly, Bane's Rule of Two worked better than any other Sith Order, but I think the current DLotS can do whatever he wants with the current Order.

Another thing I want to point out was I loved Kaan's system. Yes, Bane hated it and claimed it was "un-sithly" but I thought it was the exact opposite. Kaan created the perfect system for him! Which quite frankly seems very sithly to me.

Q99
I think Kaan's Sith were pretty much doomed to lose whatever happened, whether to force of arms or Bane's thought bomb, but the Sith would've gone down a lot sooner without him united them in the first place.

Hm, I wonder what an alt-timeline with no Kaan would've been. Sith don't get unified, or at least quite as soon, and go down. Bane never gets trained by them to get his start. No Rule of Two Sith. Galactic peace?

RE: Blaxican
No.

Some ******* hot headed jedi turns into a dark jedi and persuades a bunch of other Jedi to his cause. Rinse and repeat.

Q99
Eventually, sure, but none of the various Jedi that fall for the next 1,000 years manages to start up an Order, so it'd be even longer before they crop up.

I suppose... the Lost Tribe of the Sith would be the next place we know Sith are hanging around and another possible source, so if something eventually finds them.

Naga Sado
Originally posted by Eminence
Unless you're referring to Dark Empire or similar material, Palpatine never actually intended to form an army of Sith. That idea was simply another lie he led Count Dooku to believe was part of his grand design.

Dooku's many recruits are just what he calls them: acolytes. They are renegade Force-users whose talents he can make use of; he never imparts to them the secrets of the Sith, and with the exception of Opress I don't believe he ever even spent much time instructing them personally, relying on the competency and aggression that led them into his service to begin with. He attempted to gather as many jedi babys listed to make into his litte army of assassins.

Black bolt z
Originally posted by ares834
Says who? Bane? In fact Bane actually restricted the Sith which is against their code. But bane recreated the order and started a new tradition. Sidious didn't give a damn about any sith tradition except acquiring power, which isn't specific to the sith.

ares834
Originally posted by RE: Blaxican
No.

Some ******* hot headed jedi turns into a dark jedi and persuades a bunch of other Jedi to his cause. Rinse and repeat.

Agreed. The RoT likely recruited or killed any Jedi powerful enough to sway other Jedi to the DS, afterall I doubt they wanted competition.

Originally posted by Black bolt z
But bane recreated the order and started a new tradition. Sidious didn't give a damn about any sith tradition except acquiring power, which isn't specific to the sith.

Caring about Sith tradition goes against the code itself which basically says, "Do whatever the hell you want for power!"

RagingBoner
NS
He attempted to gather as many jedi babys listed to make into his litte army of assassins.

It's not Sith he was seeking to create, but "Force-talented spies" (re: the Emperor's Hands).

Black bolt z
Originally posted by ares834

Caring about Sith tradition goes against the code itself which basically says, "Do whatever the hell you want for power!" "Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
Through passion, I gain strength.
Through strength, I gain power.
Through power, I gain victory.
Through victory, my chains are broken.
The Force shall free me"

That code was created by darth bane. And set up the rule of facing your master face to face. So, no. Your not supposed to gain power by killing someone in their sleep.

ares834
Originally posted by Black bolt z
That code was created by darth bane.

embarrasment

No it wasn't.



Bane can say whatever he wants but he is creating "chains" and thus going against the code itself.

Plus the RoT says nothing about facing your master face to face. That was simply a belief of Bane. This is all the RoT really says, "Two there should be; no more, no less. One to embody power, the other to crave it."

Q99
Dooku lacking Sidious to train him and creating his own Sith would be interesting.

Lord Lucien
Originally posted by Black bolt z
"Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
Through passion, I gain strength.
Through strength, I gain power.
Through power, I gain victory.
Through victory, my chains are broken.
The Force shall free me"

That code was created by darth bane. erm

Q99
Darth Bane used the code, but it's origin dates back further, and we don't know who started it.

Lord Lucien
KotOR was the first era it was heard in.

chilled monkey
Originally posted by Naga Sado
Drath Sid. has broken the rule of two so many times in so many ways!Firt he allows Dooku recruite skorr,sora,ventress,vos,and mauls brother!Then he trys to develope an army of siths!WHY!?

The Rule of Two is that there can only be two Sith at any time. Skorr, Ventress, Sora Bulq etc were not Sith; they were Dark Jedi. A Sith Lord could teach a bunch of people how to use the Force, wield a lightsabre etc, but as long as they only teach Sith techniques to one apprentice, no problem.

Even Bane acknowledges this in Path of Destruction.

"Minions and servents could be drawn into the service of the dark side by the temptation of power. They could be given small tastes of what it offered..."

Sith Lords have specific teachings that 'regular' Dark Jedi do not. This is best illustrated in Dark Rendezvous when Dooku tells Ventress he has taught her many secrets and she replies;

"Scraps. Little devices. Lesser arts."

While he taught her basic dark side techniques he didn't teach her the specific ways of the Sith. Same with Sora, Skorr, the Emperor's Hands, Azrakel etc.

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