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I say it isn't. I know some will disagree, but I think it is increasing the wealth gap and is definitly diminishing good paying blue collar jobs in first world countries. one can point out it provides cheaper products, and i agree it does, but at the cost of good paying jobs. In the end it only serves to drive wealth further upward. Ross Perot was right on this issue.

Opinions?

sometimes, sure

I'm more for mercantilism.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_trade#History_of_free_trade

It creates better jobs for the upper middle class. Face it. In the end, you're going to have to communicate or do something. If everyone is a performer for a living, perhaps free trade would be better.. In the end, you have jobs for engineers mainly it seems. Then there's the physical labor jobs that don't pay much and take no skill.

It can be beneficial, sure. Most importantly without free trade the opportunity to improve one's standing is very limited.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
without free trade the opportunity to improve one's standing is very limited.

How so? The US economy is large and diverse enough on it's own that many opportunities are afforded.

Originally posted by The Dark Cloud
How so? The US economy is large and diverse enough on it's own that many opportunities are afforded.

Woah, long day, I was thinking of something different.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
It can be beneficial, sure. Most importantly without free trade the opportunity to improve one's standing is very limited.
I'd almost say the opposite; in a state-run system, you could improve your standing just by doing good on a state test, ideally.

It isn't. Protectionism/Fair Trade is the only truly equitable solution.

Free trade can be a good thing.

Sometimes yes sometimes no it depends.

Please justify working conditions and wages of global workers being turned into a race to the bottom and the very existence of the WTO.

It's never a simple answer in most cases free trade is beneficial for all parties involved.

Originally posted by Bardock42
Free trade can be a good thing.

But free beer is even a better thing

Originally posted by Christina Ann
I'm more for mercantilism.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_trade#History_of_free_trade

It creates better jobs for the upper middle class. Face it. In the end, you're going to have to communicate or do something. If everyone is a performer for a living, perhaps free trade would be better.. In the end, you have jobs for engineers mainly it seems. Then there's the physical labor jobs that don't pay much and take no skill.
Mercantilism is only going to increase the wealth gap between 'first world' and 'third world' countries. Mercantilism is basically protecting your own economy by not importing foreign goods. Eventually, down the line the only country that would be able to completely provide for itself in food would be France. Then you have the problem of fuels and other such raw materials which simply can't be created or processed in many countries. It would destroy Africa and parts of South America and Asia within years, and most of the countries in the Western world within decades.

This is of course in a hypothetical situation in which every country in the world would adopt mercantilism.

I don't see how free trade is good for "all parties involved". Lou Dobbs was right..."free reade is nothing more than a euphanism for scouring the globe for the cheapest labor possible".

It's all about making money if people are willing to work for cheaper labor in those countries than I don't see how you are going to blame free trade for it.

People in those countries that work for low playing corporation didn't have many other options before and it's not like they are forced into working there. Exploitation happens everywhere.

People in those countries see working for the cheap labor is better than nothing.

Like I said it's not that free trade doesn't have issues but the benefits are greater if the countries have an advantage in producing certain goods or services.

Your blaming free trade for issues which can be resolved by other means like government regulations etc.

Originally posted by kgkg
It's all about making money if people are willing to work for cheaper labor in those countries than I don't see how you are going to blame free trade for it.

People in those countries that work for low playing corporation didn't have many other options before and it's not like they are forced into working there. Exploitation happens everywhere.

People in those countries see working for the cheap labor is better than nothing.

Like I said it's not that free trade doesn't have issues but the benefits are greater if the countries have an advantage in producing certain goods or services.

Your blaming free trade for issues which can be resolved by other means like government regulations etc.
Government regulation = the opposite of free trade.

I think that US corporations should be forced to pay their employees federal minimum wage, even if located outside the country.

Originally posted by King Kandy
Government regulation = the opposite of free trade.
If it affects the trade itself like tariff etc so if it affects trade market. You can still have internal regulation to help condition of workers. Regulation was a not the correct word I meant more like better laws etc

Originally posted by King Kandy I think that US corporations should be forced to pay their employees federal minimum wage, even if located outside the country. Than what's the point of outsourcing if they can't profit from it? Demand for work is to high in developing counties to make this feasible.

A job is better than nothing.

Originally posted by kgkg
Than what's the point of outsourcing if they can't profit from it? Demand for work is to high in developing counties to make this feasible.

A job is better than nothing.
Um, exactly... why should we have an obligation to provide work for developing countries, while leaving high unemployment in our own. It baffles me that you apparently consider this a good thing.

Originally posted by King Kandy
Um, exactly... why should we have an obligation to provide work for developing countries, while leaving high unemployment in our own. It baffles me that you apparently consider this a good thing. Welfare it's pretty good.

Originally posted by kgkg
Welfare it's pretty good.
Who's welfare? Not Americans, who are left jobless by the millions.

Originally posted by King Kandy
Who's welfare? Not Americans, who are left jobless by the millions. Canada has a decent welfare. I really do feel sad for people that can't get any job. People are jobless because they won't work for low paying/minimum wage jobs not because there are no job out there.

Not the case in 3rd world countries.

Originally posted by kgkg


Than what's the point of outsourcing if they can't profit from it? Demand for work is to high in developing counties to make this feasible.

A job is better than nothing.

That's the whole point, to prevent outsourcing and keep the jobs here in this country. It is the responsibility of the national government to do what's best for the MAJORITY of it's citizens. Our "winner take all" system of capitalism is failing. I'm not advocating a central planned economy, just one that incorporates balance.

Originally posted by kgkg
Canada has a decent welfare. I really do feel sad for people that can't get any job. People are jobless because they won't work for low paying/minimum wage jobs not because there are no job out there.

Not the case in 3rd world countries.
In 2008 unemployment was at 5.79%. In 2009, it was at 9.26%.

Do you think that 3.47% of the population spontaneously became lazy and decided that they weren't going to work? No, those are jobs that no longer exist.

I can't attest to Canada but in terms of US policies, what you say is totally clueless. I know lots of people who are completely unemployed and cannot even get minimum wage jobs. We have college graduates being forced to work in fast food, with just a high school degree the job market is completely inhospitable in many places.

Originally posted by kgkg
Canada has a decent welfare. I really do feel sad for people that can't get any job. People are jobless because they won't work for low paying/minimum wage jobs not because there are no job out there.

Not the case in 3rd world countries.

3rd world countries have much lower standards of living and consequently people can survive on a lower wage. Also they of toxins in the water and food, but that's what they get for choosing to be poor.

Originally posted by The Dark Cloud
That's the whole point, to prevent outsourcing and keep the jobs here in this country. It is the responsibility of the national government to do what's best for the MAJORITY of it's citizens. Our "winner take all" system of capitalism is failing. I'm not advocating a central planned economy, just one that incorporates balance. Outsourcing might seem like a bad idea but not outsourcing in a global economy will hurting the US economy in the long run.

Originally posted by kgkg
Outsourcing might seem like a bad idea but not outsourcing in a global economy will hurting the US economy in the long run.

How so? How does it help the long term health of the US economy to eliminate the middle class and concentrate more wealth at the top, which are direct result of free trade. Or do you believe the propoganda of Fox News?

Originally posted by The Dark Cloud
How so? How does it help the long term health of the US economy to eliminate the middle class and concentrate more wealth at the top, which are direct result of free trade. Or do you believe the propoganda of Fox News? It hastens the day when the market and society corrects itself by realizing the error of it's ways and begins hurling conservatives, economic libertarians, and objectivists off the top of the Empire State building.

Originally posted by King Kandy
In 2008 unemployment was at 5.79%. In 2009, it was at 9.26%.

Do you think that 3.47% of the population spontaneously became lazy and decided that they weren't going to work? No, those are jobs that no longer exist.

I can't attest to Canada but in terms of US policies, what you say is totally clueless. I know lots of people who are completely unemployed and cannot even get minimum wage jobs. We have college graduates being forced to work in fast food, with just a high school degree the job market is completely inhospitable in many places. How much of the increase is attributed to outsourcing? From what I understood this increase is mainly due to continuing recession.

Originally posted by kgkg
How much of the increase is attributed to outsourcing? From what I understood this increase is mainly due to continuing recession. I've heard estimates that 40% of all jobs could conceivably be outsourced.

Originally posted by The Dark Cloud
How so? How does it help the long term health of the US economy to eliminate the middle class and concentrate more wealth at the top, which are direct result of free trade. Or do you believe the propoganda of Fox News? So you don't see how protectionist policies can't hurt the US economy?

Originally posted by Darth Jello
I've heard estimates that 40% of all jobs could conceivably be outsourced. Say what?

Originally posted by kgkg
So you don't see how protectionist policies can't hurt the US economy?


It could stifle some foreign investment and raise the prices of some products but overall it will narrow the wealth gap and drive wages up which will give more spending power to the middle class which will ultimately stimulate the economy. There might be a few less billionairs which will make the editors at Forbes magazine angry but I really don't care about them.

Originally posted by kgkg
How much of the increase is attributed to outsourcing? From what I understood this increase is mainly due to continuing recession.

A recession caused by excessive risk taking and cowboy capitalism. Same with the Great Depression. More regulation of large banks and major corporations in general is what's needed and they must not be allowed to offshore operations out of the country and then continue to be allowed to do business here.

Hell, we even had a war, the invasion of Iraq, at the behest of a major global corporation, Haliburton, which no longer has it's corporate headquarters in the United States.

Say we go to war with China some day, the US military will have a very difficult time getting many components for it's hardware as many of the parts are now made in China.

But free trade is gooooooooooooooood

China in turn will lose its largest market.

Originally posted by kgkg
Say what? you could sustain the economy on just the richest 20% of consumers and outsource virtually all service and management positions and all manufacturing. You run you country south america free market style, throw 40% of people out of work, build gated communities with guard towers and take a helicoptor to the office.

Free trade is a pretty ironic term. It promises prosperity but only to those who are deceitful and corrupt.

I take one look at what capitalism has done to the environment, workers rights, and humanity and I can only shake my head in disgust. Free trade is a death machine.

I think free trade was A-ok in its primary state. It was fine in America until people began to learn how to manipulate it which began the industrial revolution. I think that people just got greedy and that's what caused all of the shit to go down. Before people learned how to manipulate it, free trade was the fairest economic system up to date and certainly offered the most social mobility. Though it may now be a corrupt monstrosity, respect is still due to its creators who had pure thoughts in mind but unfortunately didn't have amazing powers of foresight.