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I just don't understand. Okay, according to the gods of Zenn-La, the single Creator they call the "First Mover" (God) created the Universe from a void of chaos and darkness; according to the Shinto myths, Izanagi and Izanami (Gaea) did, and managed to banish Mikaboshi to Yomi. Which of the Creation myths is true isn't the point here, though. The point is: Why COULDN'T Earth's combined gods and mightiest Skyfathers stop Mikaboshi like they did before with their acts of creation? Couldn't they just create some more with their own powers to replace/restore whatever Mikaboshi had destroyed?

True, the Chaos King had absorbed half of reality at least when he assailed Earth, along with many deities besides, but nevertheless, he was near becoming the Void again - but still not as absolute or powerful as he was before. How could Earth's gods defeat him eons before at the HEIGHT of his power as the "perfect" Primordial Void, with the Kami besting him and even sealing him completely in a netherworld, but the Council of Skyfathers get so easily slaughtered in their own realms (where their powers are greatest) when Mikaboshi was still incomplete in power himself?

What was the point of god squad? It looked like they were entering yomi but then nothing was mentioned in issue five. It's like they ignored the tie completely.

Originally posted by Falamu
I just don't understand. Okay, according to the gods of Zenn-La, the single Creator they call the "First Mover" (God) created the Universe from a void of chaos and darkness; according to the Shinto myths, Izanagi and Izanami (Gaea) did, and managed to banish Mikaboshi to Yomi. Which of the Creation myths is true isn't the point here, though. The point is: Why COULDN'T Earth's combined gods and mightiest Skyfathers stop Mikaboshi like they did before with their acts of creation? Couldn't they just create some more with their own powers to replace/restore whatever Mikaboshi had destroyed?

In Marvel Lore it seems they placed The One Above All in the position of starting creation and put the Myth of Izanagi and Izanami starting creation in the position of being legend and not actual fact.In Japanese Mythology, more particularly, the worshipers of Mikaboshi stated that In and Yo fought and usurped Mikaboshi by creating the Earth.This single act weakened Mikaboshi.And In and Yo sent Izanagi and Izanami to populate the Earth.And Amatsu-Mikaboshi found a willing host in Ama-No-Kagaseo.And he charged Ama-No-Kagaseo of gathering enough power so he could return all of creation in the Darkness and Chaos.Here's the link about Ama-No-Kagaseo.

http://wiki.white-wolf.com/camwiki/index.php?title=Ama-no-Kagaseo

This makes me wonder if Marvel will bring back Ama-No-Kagaseo since he's a separate being from Amatsu-Mikaboshi/Chaos King.

Originally posted by Falamu
True, the Chaos King had absorbed half of reality at least when he assailed Earth, along with many deities besides, but nevertheless, he was near becoming the Void again - but still not as absolute or powerful as he was before. How could Earth's gods defeat him eons before at the HEIGHT of his power as the "perfect" Primordial Void, with the Kami besting him and even sealing him completely in a netherworld, but the Council of Skyfathers get so easily slaughtered in their own realms (where their powers are greatest) when Mikaboshi was still incomplete in power himself?

What?After The One Above All started Creation, Mikaboshi/Chaos King was too weakened.Mikaboshi/Chaos King was before the time of the Council Elite.Here's info about the Council Elite.

http://i737.photobucket.com/albums/xx18/bagsikdangal/EncyclopediaMythologica-0004-1.jpg?t=1275911050

Good thing I found that here in KMC.One could use the Myth behind Ama-No-Kagaseo as a reason on why the Chaos King ended up in the Japanese Pantheon and he did admit Japan named him "Amatsu-Mikaboshi" in Chaos War#3.As for Chaos King gaining the power to destroy the Council Elite, blame Athena for that.She provided the means in the form of the Skrull Gods slave pantheon.And when he successfully absorbs a pantheon and their realms, he gains power as a result.By the time he got to the Council Elite, he was powerful enough to destroy and absorb them into his being.Though blinded as a result since its been a long time since the Chaos King held that kind of power.

Originally posted by WhiteWitchKing
What was the point of god squad? It looked like they were entering yomi but then nothing was mentioned in issue five. It's like they ignored the tie completely.

It seems to me that tie in was nothing more but a tour in the land of Ama.They were trying to find out if the Japanese Gods can still put Mikaboshi back into Yomi.Which can no longer be accomplished since Mikaboshi gained back his Chaos King Form which is too much for Yomi to contain.Yeah that tie in disappointed me as well.Probably the worst tie in.

Well, even Mikaboshi's origins in the Official Handbook mention that Izanagi and Gaea were responsible for creating Japan and helping disperse his Void:
http://i737.photobucket.com/albums/xx18/bagsikdangal/EncyclopediaMythologica-0009.jpg

Besides, many of the other Earth's pantheons have their own creation myths about the Skyfathers emerging from primordial nothingness, some by themselves, not spawned by Gaea. Earth certainly does seem to be unique - in fact, I doubt many other planets would have as many diverse cultures and as many as twenty different pantheons. Maybe the supreme God did for whatever reason take an interest in Earth during the oldest days of Creation and possibly used the Kami to trap Mikaboshi...

Originally posted by Falamu
Well, even Mikaboshi's origins in the Official Handbook mention that Izanagi and Gaea were responsible for creating Japan and helping disperse his Void:
http://i737.photobucket.com/albums/xx18/bagsikdangal/EncyclopediaMythologica-0009.jpg

Besides, many of the other Earth's pantheons have their own creation myths about the Skyfathers emerging from primordial nothingness, some by themselves, not spawned by Gaea. Earth certainly does seem to be unique - in fact, I doubt many other planets would have as many diverse cultures and as many as twenty different pantheons. Maybe the supreme God did for whatever reason take an interest in Earth during the oldest days of Creation and possibly used the Kami to trap Mikaboshi...

I would agree with you on your take that Earth is unique.The fact that even in Thor Annual#10.It seems it got more attention.

http://i1081.photobucket.com/albums/j351/igniz5/VoidInTheBegining.jpg

I think this is how the origin of the Marvel Universe is pieced out.

TOAA does the creation event>That ended the Void,Darkness, and Chaos(w/c resulted in CK's depowerment.Take note there is no Japan in this era.So the entity's name is Chaos King)>Demiurge emerged and spawned the Elder Gods>Elder Gods degenerated into demons>Gaea summoned the Demiurge and gave birth to Atum/Demogorge>Demogorge slays every Elder Gods except for Chthon(who fled in another dimension) and Set>Gaea wanted to end the age of Dinosaurs and sent Atum/Demogorge to pawn Set>Set fled to another dimension>Atum purged himself of the Elder Gods energy that was known as God stuff>Which allowed mammals and other animals to emerge>Diverse Gods emerged as a result of Humanity's untapped mind that tapped into the God Stuff.Though I don't know what this means.I'm going w/ humans not having physical appearances but spirits upon this time and the Gods provided them their physical bodies>different civilizations emerges.Including Japan and the Kamis>Although this time I'm using what the Mikaboshi worshipers believed.Ama-No-Kagaseo found enlightenment in the dark.He then hears the voice of the Chaos King.He then agrees to be the host to the Void,Darkness,and Chaos until it gains enough power to undo creation>The Chaos King gains a body in the form of Ama-No-Kagaseo and he was now called Amatsu-Mikaboshi in the Japanese Pantheon.

Its true other cultures have their own Darkness and Chaos.But what makes the Shinto Faith unique, particularly in the Mikaboshi worshipers to be specific, is that they believe the Darkness and Chaos will return to undo creation.This is what I think FVL and GP based the Chaos King on.

Originally posted by Igniz
I would agree with you on your take that Earth is unique.The fact that even in Thor Annual#10.It seems it got more attention.

http://i1081.photobucket.com/albums/j351/igniz5/VoidInTheBegining.jpg

I think this is how the origin of the Marvel Universe is pieced out.

TOAA does the creation event>That ended the Void,Darkness, and Chaos(w/c resulted in CK's depowerment.Take note there is no Japan in this era.So the entity's name is Chaos King)>Demiurge emerged and spawned the Elder Gods>Elder Gods degenerated into demons>Gaea summoned the Demiurge and gave birth to Atum/Demogorge>Demogorge slays every Elder Gods except for Chthon(who fled in another dimension) and Set>Gaea wanted to end the age of Dinosaurs and sent Atum/Demogorge to pawn Set>Set fled to another dimension>Atum purged himself of the Elder Gods energy that was known as God stuff>Which allowed mammals and other animals to emerge>Diverse Gods emerged as a result of Humanity's untapped mind that tapped into the God Stuff.Though I don't know what this means.I'm going w/ humans not having physical appearances but spirits upon this time and the Gods provided them their physical bodies>different civilizations emerges.Including Japan and the Kamis>Although this time I'm using what the Mikaboshi worshipers believed.Ama-No-Kagaseo found enlightenment in the dark.He then hears the voice of the Chaos King.He then agrees to be the host to the Void,Darkness,and Chaos until it gains enough power to undo creation>The Chaos King gains a body in the form of Ama-No-Kagaseo and he was now called Amatsu-Mikaboshi in the Japanese Pantheon.

Its true other cultures have their own Darkness and Chaos.But what makes the Shinto Faith unique, particularly in the Mikaboshi worshipers to be specific, is that they believe the Darkness and Chaos will return to undo creation.This is what I think FVL and GP based the Chaos King on.

But, then, the Kami DID help break through Mikaboshi's Promordial Void with their own acts of creation on Earth, then?

Originally posted by Falamu
But, then, the Kami DID help break through Mikaboshi's Promordial Void with their own acts of creation on Earth, then?

If you mean the time the Kamis were now around and the Chaos King emerged in the Japanese Pantheon and was named "Amatsu-Mikaboshi", then yes.But only because Mikaboshi was already weakened after TOAA started creation.He's Primordial Void wasn't as powerful as it was at that time.

I'm a little confused as to why he was so powerful as well. If he's just a deity, then there should have been plenty who could have beaten him. I'm not sure how he could be a personification of nothingness or void when there already is one of those named Oblivion.

Well, my point was that basically, couldn't Izanagi or any of the other Skyfathers did what they did during Earth's earliest days, and basically use their godly powers to, like, create ANEW from the expanding Void of the Chaos King, during the Chaos War...the pantheons and their Godheads did it before. And they were backed by the power of their own creations during the War, unlike before, in primordial chaos...

in mikaboshi form he is nowhere as powerful as his chaos king form(he needed to absorb alot of power to shed the terrain form).

choas king one shotted all of the japenese gods in chaos war

Originally posted by celestialdemon
I'm a little confused as to why he was so powerful as well. If he's just a deity, then there should have been plenty who could have beaten him. I'm not sure how he could be a personification of nothingness or void when there already is one of those named Oblivion.

TOAA was the one who ended the Void,Darkness, and Chaos which Chaos King(abstract) represents to start creation.When civilization emerged, 1 being heard the voice of the Chaos King named Ama-No-Kagaseo(probably a Kami).Ama-No-Kagaseo agreed to be the host for the Chaos King.This in turn made the Chaos King emerged in the Japanese Pantheon and came to be known as "Amatsu-Mikaboshi".Take note this is the Mythos behind Amatsu-Mikaboshi and Ama-No-Kagaseo which was probably used by FVL and GP as reference.And Oblivion is the Void defined against Infinity(space).You can say Chaos King is the Void in the beginning while Oblivion is the Void in the end.

Originally posted by Falamu
Well, my point was that basically, couldn't Izanagi or any of the other Skyfathers did what they did during Earth's earliest days, and basically use their godly powers to, like, create ANEW from the expanding Void of the Chaos King, during the Chaos War...the pantheons and their Godheads did it before. And they were backed by the power of their own creations during the War, unlike before, in primordial chaos...

this

Originally posted by Colossus-Big C
in mikaboshi form he is nowhere as powerful as his chaos king form(he needed to absorb alot of power to shed the terrain form).

choas king one shotted all of the japenese gods in chaos war

Originally posted by Igniz
TOAA was the one who ended the Void,Darkness, and Chaos which Chaos King(abstract) represents to start creation.When civilization emerged, 1 being heard the voice of the Chaos King named Ama-No-Kagaseo(probably a Kami).Ama-No-Kagaseo agreed to be the host for the Chaos King.This in turn made the Chaos King emerged in the Japanese Pantheon and came to be known as "Amatsu-Mikaboshi".Take note this is the Mythos behind Amatsu-Mikaboshi and Ama-No-Kagaseo which was probably used by FVL and GP as reference.And Oblivion is the Void defined against Infinity(space).You can say Chaos King is the Void in the beginning while Oblivion is the Void in the end.



Sounds like Marvel is either overcomplicating their heirarchy or completely ignoring it altogether. With Oblivion and Lord Chaos already being personifications of those aspects, it seems like there shouldn't be room for the Chaos King to fit in either category. But it's comics, so I guess it doesn't have to make sense.

Originally posted by Igniz
TOAA was the one who ended the Void,Darkness, and Chaos which Chaos King(abstract) represents to start creation.When civilization emerged, 1 being heard the voice of the Chaos King named Ama-No-Kagaseo(probably a Kami).Ama-No-Kagaseo agreed to be the host for the Chaos King.This in turn made the Chaos King emerged in the Japanese Pantheon and came to be known as "Amatsu-Mikaboshi".Take note this is the Mythos behind Amatsu-Mikaboshi and Ama-No-Kagaseo which was probably used by FVL and GP as reference.And Oblivion is the Void defined against Infinity(space).You can say Chaos King is the Void in the beginning while Oblivion is the Void in the end.



this

But, you see, from the Handbooks, it said that Mikaboshi then existed as a "dark, primordial void" that dominated Earth and reigned alone - essentially beyond his Chaos King form and the unbroken, perfect Primordial Void with full powers beyond even those of the Chaos King - everything was under his power and control. And this time was before Mikaboshi was cast into his lesser Japanese aspect/Terran form by the Skyfathers and sealed in Yomi; his power THEN was supposed to be primal and unweakened by any act of creation, and still the gods somehow triumphed and dispersed his Void with their own power...

Originally posted by Falamu
But, you see, from the Handbooks, it said that Mikaboshi then existed as a "dark, primordial void" that dominated Earth and reigned alone - essentially beyond his Chaos King form and the unbroken, perfect Primordial Void with full powers beyond even those of the Chaos King - everything was under his power and control. And this time was before Mikaboshi was cast into his lesser Japanese aspect/Terran form by the Skyfathers and sealed in Yomi; his power THEN was supposed to be primal and unweakened by any act of creation, and still the gods somehow triumphed and dispersed his Void with their own power...

The Encyclopedia Mythologica always start out with the supposed history of the gods.And only a few are actually real facts about the gods in the Marvel Universe.Take for instance Odin,Vele and Ve.It was stated in Marvel History that this 3 created the cosmos from Ymir's corpse.But it was later revealed to be untrue.Cause later on, Ymir, however, succeeded in regenerating himself, and led the Ice Giants in war against Asgard at some later time. Odin created a chasm containing an interdimensional nexus through which Ymir's army plunged into Muspelheim, where the native demons took the Giants prisoners. Odin then entrapped Ymir himself within a circle of flame within a volcanic area. It is not known how long Ymir remained there.

Just think of this.After TOAA pawned CK, he was weakened.Later when civilization emerged, the Shinto Gods emerged.Izanagi and Izanami created life in the void were Chaos King is still recuperating after his pawnage from TOAA.By this time someone heard the voice of the Chaos King.And that someone is Ama-No-Kagaseo.Ama-No-Kagaseo agreed to CK's terms of being his host to undo all of creation.This allowed CK to emerge in the Japanese Pantheon and was known as Amatsu-Mikaboshi.Although CK was back, he wasn't as powerful as he used to be.Hence why the Amatsu-Kami was able to defeat and imprisoned him.

Originally posted by celestialdemon
Sounds like Marvel is either overcomplicating their heirarchy or completely ignoring it altogether. With Oblivion and Lord Chaos already being personifications of those aspects, it seems like there shouldn't be room for the Chaos King to fit in either category. But it's comics, so I guess it doesn't have to make sense. Because the writer didn't do his homework and just wanted to molest a good character like Mikaboshi into CK.Honestly it doesn't match up to ANY of the previous cosmology of marvel.

Originally posted by celestialdemon
Sounds like Marvel is either overcomplicating their heirarchy or completely ignoring it altogether. With Oblivion and Lord Chaos already being personifications of those aspects, it seems like there shouldn't be room for the Chaos King to fit in either category. But it's comics, so I guess it doesn't have to make sense.

I did my research on FVL's and GP's character known as the Chaos King and I stumbled upon an interesting thing about there description.It turns out that the name Chaos King was taken from Ovid's description titled Metamorphoses describing Chaos as "a rude and undeveloped mass, that nothing made except a ponderous weight; and all discordant elements confused, were there congested in a shapeless heap."So this in turn is the Void according to the Greeks.And the King part in the name is to describe the entity as for all cultures that describes the Void.This makes Chaos King different from Oblivion and Lord Chaos.

Originally posted by superbatman86
Because the writer didn't do his homework and just wanted to molest a good character like Mikaboshi into CK.Honestly it doesn't match up to ANY of the previous cosmology of marvel.

Believe it or not, the writers did do their research on Mikaboshi.They based the Character of Mikaboshi/Chaos King on a lot of cultures.See above as to why he's named Chaos King.And believe it or not, the Japanese, particularly the Mikaboshi worshipers actually believed the Darkness and Chaos will return.And I recommend you read Defenders V3 #1-5.Because this issue actually supports the writers of Chaos War.

Originally posted by Igniz
I did my research on FVL's and GP's character known as the Chaos King and I stumbled upon an interesting thing about there description.It turns out that the name Chaos King was taken from Ovid's description titled Metamorphoses describing Chaos as "a rude and undeveloped mass, that nothing made except a ponderous weight; and all discordant elements confused, were there congested in a shapeless heap."So this in turn is the Void according to the Greeks.And the King part in the name is to describe the entity as for all cultures that describes the Void.This makes Chaos King different from Oblivion and Lord Chaos.



Believe it or not, the writers did do their research on Mikaboshi.They based the Character of Mikaboshi/Chaos King on a lot of cultures.See above as to why he's named Chaos King.And believe it or not, the Japanese, particularly the Mikaboshi worshipers actually believed the Darkness and Chaos will return.And I recommend you read Defenders V3 #1-5.Because this issue actually supports the writers of Chaos War. No because there all ready exists the cosmics that represent those things and to rewrite a mere earth god to be above abstracts is a joke.