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Yawn, who wins ?

Originally posted by Nihilist
Yawn, who wins ? ... I detect swamp rage.

God Swamp Thing for various reasons :

a) his stupendous feats
and
b) the sheer number of abstracts and high end cosmics he's utterly humiliated

Thanos w/HOTU wins.

Originally posted by zopzop
God Swamp Thing for various reasons :

a) his stupendous feats
and
b) the sheer number of abstracts and high end cosmics he's utterly humiliated Did you happen to read Marvel's the end ?

Originally posted by quanchi112
Did you happen to read Marvel's the end ?

That was sarcasm

Thanos.

Thanos w/ HOTU is a beast.He wins.

Originally posted by Igniz
Thanos w/ HOTU is a beast.He wins.

While God Swamp Thing is beyond beast level.

Thanos with the HOTU was still TOAA *****, he even admit it.

god swamp thing almost overtook the presence iirc... he wins

Originally posted by Lord_Talron
god swamp thing almost overtook the presence iirc... he wins

So the Presence issn't omnipotent?

no, swamp thing was becoming omnipotent.

Originally posted by Lord_Talron
no, swamp thing was becoming omnipotent.

How does someone become almost becomes an omnipotent exactly? Does 2+2 = infinity?

Originally posted by TheTyrant
How does someone become almost becomes an omnipotent exactly? Does 2+2 = infinity?

It's a comic... It doesn't have to make sense.

way to bring that sort of logic into a comic book debate. fail argument

Originally posted by TheTyrant
How does someone become almost becomes an omnipotent exactly? Does 2+2 = infinity?
Ask yourself, pretty sure you've argued that Thanos with IG and Thanos with HOTU are both omnipotent/almost omnipotent in the past.

Originally posted by TheTyrant
How does someone become almost becomes an omnipotent exactly? Does 2+2 = infinity? how does someone fly without a machine? how does someone manipulate matter? how does someone stretch their body like rubber to impossible lengths?

Originally posted by Lord_Talron
no, swamp thing was becoming omnipotent. Thanos was omnipotent.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Thanos was near-omnipotent.

There fixed it for you; we all know that Classic Beyonder was the true omnipotent being in the Marvel Universe...

Classic Beyonder was stated on panel to be 1 million times more powerful than everything in Marvel combined and that includes the HotU (the HotU hadnt be discovered yet, but it was still present nonetheless)!!!!

Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
There fixed it for you; we all know that Classic Beyonder was the true omnipotent being in the Marvel Universe...

Classic Beyonder was stated on panel to be 1 million times more powerful than everything in Marvel combined and that includes the HotU (the HotU hadnt be discovered yet, but it was still present nonetheless)!!!!

Beyonder weakened himself when killing death Thanos was never even given puause by anything in creation which opposed him.


Thanos was all powerful/supreme.

So, Thanos w/ God's power will lose to someone who was just "almost" on god's level?

Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
There fixed it for you; we all know that Classic Beyonder was the true omnipotent being in the Marvel Universe...

Classic Beyonder was stated on panel to be 1 million times more powerful than everything in Marvel combined and that includes the HotU (the HotU hadnt be discovered yet, but it was still present nonetheless)!!!!


What baloney. If you're going to apply continuity that way, by that logic the retcon should be applied to Beyonder as well... obviously, by the time THOTU was conceived, it was thought of as way stronger than Beyonder (Thanos even defeated Beyonder with no power ups at all).

was hotu a universal or multiversal threat?

Originally posted by Lord_Talron
was hotu a universal or multiversal threat?
A "whatever thanos wanted" threat.

hmm, i thought it was only universal. hence hotu not hotm :P

Heart of the Universe was just a nickname Thanos gave it. Its previous holders called it Heart of the Infinite. Both were just arbitrary names given to it to reflect it is the origin of all things.

oh ok, then i guess it just comes down to feats.

Originally posted by Lord_Talron
oh ok, then i guess it just comes down to feats.

Thanos with HotI rape stomps Swamp Thing in feats. So Thanos wins.

Originally posted by Lord_Talron
hmm, i thought it was only universal. hence hotu not hotm :P

Sometimes Universes or Alternate Universes are viewed as "Dimensions" as stated here.

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/7/73437/1743728-dimensionsuniverses_super.jpg

As a result, the Multiverse ends up being referred to as Universe.Thanos w/ the HOTU was able to defeat The Living Tribunal who was Multiversal himself and second to TOAA.

Well Classic Beyonder was a million times more powerful than everyone Thanos beat with the HotU combined...

And the LT was scared to death of him...

Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
Well Classic Beyonder was a million times more powerful than everyone Thanos beat with the HotU combined...

And the LT was scared to death of him...


Actually LT was just playing along to help his development...

Basically, what you are saying is the equivalent of "Mastermind is omnipotent" because he looked that way for the first couple pages before his powers were revealed to be illusions.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Beyonder weakened himself when killing death Thanos was never even given puause by anything in creation which opposed him.


Thanos was all powerful/supreme.
When has Thanos killed the multiversal concept of death like that? never

This is along the lines of "oh phoenix Rachel Grey totally made the Beyonder a jobber in their X-men crossover"

get it thru your head. beyonder got retconned. hes not as powerful as you think he is. end of story.

Originally posted by SasuOna
When has Thanos killed the multiversal concept of death like that? never

This is along the lines of "oh phoenix Rachel Grey totally made the Beyonder a jobber in their X-men crossover"
He killed the whole multiverse in "The End"... and wasn't bitching about how much of his power it took, either.

No, not really. What does that have to do w/ retcons? My point is you can't just select a character w/ a fake power, and claim that it's real just because you want to ignore the stuff showing it isn't. lol by this logic, any illusionist character > HOTU? Since they can appear to do anything.

Originally posted by SasuOna
When has Thanos killed the multiversal concept of death like that? never

This is along the lines of "oh phoenix Rachel Grey totally made the Beyonder a jobber in their X-men crossover" He never tried to as he adores Mistress death. Thanos wasn't weakened by anything he did on panel which was more impressive than beyonder who showed weakness after great feats of power. End of story.

Originally posted by King Kandy
Actually LT was just playing along to help his development...

Basically, what you are saying is the equivalent of "Mastermind is omnipotent" because he looked that way for the first couple pages before his powers were revealed to be illusions.

And all the abstracts "playing along" to aid in the Beyonders cognitive development was PIS at its finest; that stunk of BS and you know this...

So all the abstracts feigned to be in fear and allowed themselves to be punked and beaten up repeatedly just to help some fledgling cosmic cube...




Sure, thats how it was written in the retcon, but it was also an insanely stupid justification as well...

The fact remains that "Classic Beyonder" (and during that issue of the Fantastic Four were he was retconned he wasnt Classic Beyonder anymore as the PIS was in full effect) was vastly more powerful that anything else that has appeared in Marvel...

Again, 1 million times more powerful than everything else in the MU combined (which would include the IG, all Cosmic Cubes present, AND the HotU) with the sole exception being Classic Owen...read em and weep!

So basically, you are just going to ignore the direct proof you are wrong just because you don't like it... so, i suppose i won't be continuing this conversation much longer.

No ignoring anything; I accept that the retcon occured, but I also contend that that was PIS and stupidity piled up and rotting...

Are you really willing to argue that the idea behind the retcon, that all the cosmics were playing alone and allowed everything to happen, wasnt stupid!? That was stupid beyond stupid...and you know it.

And the way Classic Beyonder was written, being stated on panel to be a million times more powerful than everything in the MU (except Classic Owen) combined...he was far, far, far, far more powerful than the HotU.


Logic for the win!

Yes, obviously that retcon is true. We have seen him appear countless times since then and it has always been with the power levels the FF comics established. We don't decide to ignore continuity and cut off characters histories wherever we like; you need to accept that things change.

I accept it changed...BUT it was BS as the reasoning of the retcon was illogical and stupid.

Do you not agree with this?


Now I do believe that the Beyonder should never have been written as he was in the 1st place; writting an omnipotent being with no weaknesses whatsoever was a very bad idea...

But that said, he was written to be ridiculously powerful; that cant be taken back, and even crap writting and stupid justifications cant erase the original writting...

Unless you are willing to accept the Abstracts/Cosmics allowing themselves to humilated, beaten up repeatedly, and feigning fear as something logical...

Um, obviously it can be done without. You are basically saying that Retcons don't matter, you're just going to pretend it never happened because the original writing is "sacred". Says who? By that logic Spider-Man is a clone, because the retcon he was the original, we can just do away with.

The retcon pertaining to the Beyonder was stupid and illogical...thats a fact.

You dont agree that it was stupid and illogical?

In my honest opinion, thats reason enough to disregard it; it was PIS...pure and simple.

And you are also going to disregard, the dozens of comics that feature beyonder after the retcon?

well this is no longer fun. uggh

Originally posted by King Kandy
And you are also going to disregard, the dozens of comics that feature beyonder after the retcon?

I seperate it into 2 different characters; Classic Beyonder and Post-retcon Beyonder...

One is utterly omnipotent...the other is not.

And you still avoid the question; the explanation as to how Classic Beyonder was retconned, because the Abstracts/Cosmics were just playing along to aid in its cognitive development, was incredibly stupid and illogical...wasnt it?

Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
The retcon pertaining to the Beyonder was stupid and illogical...thats a fact.

You dont agree that it was stupid and illogical?

In my honest opinion, thats reason enough to disregard it; it was PIS...pure and simple. So you disregard it because you don't like it. Got it.

Originally posted by Black bolt z
So you disregard it because you don't like it. Got it.

I disregard it because its stupid; care to give an explanation as of how the retcons explanation makes sense?

Right...cant do it...cant do it because I'd destroy your explanation utterly and completely...

I challenge anyone here:

Explain the logic in the Abstracts/Cosmics allowing the Beyonder to humiliate them, beat them up, and clearly fearing him...

Explain them feigning all of that just to aid a lowly Cosmic Cube in its cognitive development...

You cant because that explanation is stupid and illogical, thus the entire retcon was illogical...

Classic Beyonder should have never been created in the 1st place, but he was created, so now you gotta deal with it; the explanation to his depowerment was 100% pure PIS...plain and simple.

Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
I accept it changed...BUT it was BS as the reasoning of the retcon was illogical and stupid.

Do you not agree with this?

Unless you are willing to accept the Abstracts/Cosmics allowing themselves to humilated, beaten up repeatedly, and feigning fear as something logical...

It's a comic book? Thus fiction... Thus logic doesn't play into anything...you do realize that when reading comics you should suspend your beliefs and logic at the door otherwise the idea of comics goes out the window...

And different writers have different interpretations... Btw your opinion is not as you put it.. FACT...
fact is that the writers.. The company who own the subject material rewrote it


This is a comic book. You paid between 1.99 and 3.99 for it... Accept it for what it is.. A story... And stop trying to apply logic to a comic book. It makes you look as foolish as someone else claiming superman can lift billions of trillions of a boatload of toilets or whatever

Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
I challenge anyone here:

Explain the logic in the Abstracts/Cosmics allowing the Beyonder to humiliate them, beat them up, and clearly fearing him...

Explain them feigning all of that just to aid a lowly Cosmic Cube in its cognitive development...

You cant because that explanation is stupid and illogical, thus the entire retcon was illogical...

Classic Beyonder should have never been created in the 1st place, but he was created, so now you gotta deal with it; the explanation to his depowerment was 100% pure PIS...plain and simple.

Challenge accepted!!
Marvel comics wanted money and thus printed stories.

I win. Thank you for playing. Lol.

Well if we are not to apply logic to anything in a comic, then there is no reason for us to be here debating as we have to apply logic to it for us to do what we are doing...

So since we are arguing about comics and who can beat who, ect, ect...we MUST apply logic...and logically that retcon was utterly stupid and BS ridden.

Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
Well if we are not to apply logic to anything in a comic, then there is no reason for us to be here debating as we have to apply logic to it for us to do what we are doing...

So since we are arguing about comics and who can beat who, ect, ect...we MUST apply logic...and logically that retcon was utterly stupid and BS ridden.

Nope. My opinion says your opinion is wrong.

Originally posted by rotiart
Challenge accepted!!
Marvel comics wanted money and thus printed stories.

I win. Thank you for playing. Lol.

You lose; everytime you login here and attempt to debate, you are attempting to apply logic to comics...

So logic does apply here and since it applies, I can reasonably argue that the Beyonders retcon was utterly ridiculous...

And no...my stance on this issue is not opinion...its fact; unless you can come up with a compelling counter-argument as to how the retcon makes sense.

Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
You lose; everytime you login here and attempt to debate, you are attempting to apply logic to comics...

So logic does apply here and since it applies, I can reasonably argue that the Beyonders retcon was utterly ridiculous...

.

And
Logically all you have is opinion and what I have is fact...
Fact beats opinion
Logically I win.

You just trying to be an ******* about it, but you know I'm right...

The explanation behind the retcon was illogical...true statement.

I don't think you even know the definition of the word fact at this point...
Please look it up. You have an opinion. Not facts. Please take your fourth grade understanding of the american language out an reapply at least seventh grade level intelligence. Thank you for playing.

Originally posted by rotiart
I don't think you even know the definition of the word fact at this point...
Please look it up. You have an opinion. Not facts. Please take your fourth grade understanding of the american language out an reapply at least seventh grade level intelligence. Thank you for playing.

f**k off...

Cheers!

Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
f**k off...

Cheers!




I think he wore you down man that usually what happens when the swearing starts.

Originally posted by SuperiorTech
I think he wore you down man that usually what happens when the swearing starts.

He started the insults 1st; I wore him down...

Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
f**k off...

Cheers!



Concession accepted.

Everyone stop it.

I'll definitely stop with the insults...

Now to get back on topic (before trollers derailed it), who here can offer a compelling argument as to how Marvels explanation of the Beyonders depowerment makes sense?

We have already established that logic is a factor since we are here on a comicbook forum debating, so saying that it doesnt need to make logical sense is a dead argument...

Just accept the reality here; the Beyonders depowerment was PIS...

Irony. Do you realize you derailed this thread because beyonder is NOT apart of it?

Ther conversation changed to one that related to the thread; Thanos with the HotU is not omnipotent as there was a more powerful being that existed in the Marvel Universe...

One that was more than a million times more powerful than Thanos with the HotU...

Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
I'll definitely stop with the insults...

Now to get back on topic (before trollers derailed it), who here can offer a compelling argument as to how Marvels explanation of the Beyonders depowerment makes sense?

We have already established that logic is a factor since we are here on a comicbook forum debating, so saying that it doesnt need to make logical sense is a dead argument...

Just accept the reality here; the Beyonders depowerment was PIS...

Beyonder is not on topic. Beyonder has nothing to do with this thread. If you want to discuss the legitimacy of Beyonder's retcon, that wouldn't take place on a Versus forum.

Actually you are trying to derail the thread. Your post on the first page. Omg yes I did read this whole thread... I do that...

So back to topic based upon feats I'd go with thanos myself. He almost effortlessly defeated number two living tribunal... And proved there was nothing the number two could do.

Originally posted by celestialdemon
Beyonder is not on topic. Beyonder has nothing to do with this thread. If you want to discuss the legitimacy of Beyonder's retcon, that wouldn't take place on a Versus forum.
True most discussions or arguments about something like that is usually discussed below...
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f95/

Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
Ther conversation changed to one that related to the thread; Thanos with the HotU is not omnipotent as there was a more powerful being that existed in the Marvel Universe...

One that was more than a million times more powerful than Thanos with the HotU... Your face is gonna change once I dur stamp it! ahuh
Originally posted by celestialdemon
Beyonder is not on topic. Beyonder has nothing to do with this thread. If you want to discuss the legitimacy of Beyonder's retcon, that wouldn't take place on a Versus forum. Stay out of this before I triplewarnyoutoatempban ftw! sneerOriginally posted by rotiart
Omg yes I did read this whole thread... I do that... Nerd! durpalm


Beyonder's retcon was some political "got you" going on at Marvel between writers.

Get back to topic.

Originally posted by Badabing
Your face is gonna change once I dur stamp it! ahuh
Stay out of this before I triplewarnyoutoatempban ftw! sneer Nerd! durpalm


Beyonder's retcon was some political "got you" going on at Marvel between writers.

Get back to topic.

Nerd? THAT was the best you could come up with? I expected better from you!

And again... Thanos had a deus ex machine power... It's hard for me to think swamp thing wins... But I could see a possible tie at worst
For thanos.

Originally posted by Badabing

Stay out of this before I triplewarnyoutoatempban ftw! sneer


I'm not scared of you just cause you're part raptor! boxing

Originally posted by rotiart
Nerd? THAT was the best you could come up with? I expected better from you!

And again... Thanos had a deus ex machine power... It's hard for me to think swamp thing wins... But I could see a possible tie at worst
For thanos. mmm

Dweeb!

Originally posted by celestialdemon
I'm not scared of you just cause you're part raptor! boxing

Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
Ther conversation changed to one that related to the thread; Thanos with the HotU is not omnipotent as there was a more powerful being that existed in the Marvel Universe...

One that was more than a million times more powerful than Thanos with the HotU...

What on earth makes you believe TOAA was included in that statement? There is ZERO proof of any kind that he was. Second, you do realize TOAA is the editor and chief of Marvel. TOAA WROTE AND HAD BEYONDER EVEN BE A CHARACTER... THEN WITH A MERE GESTURE RECTONNED HIS ASS WITH EASE. TOAA was NOT included in that statement which is known by who TOAA is in marvel and by his rectonning the beyonder with a mere gesture.

Thanos or stalemate.

Originally posted by Badabing
mmm

Dweeb!



Better... ;-)

Originally posted by Omega Vision
Thanos.

Stalemate.

Originally posted by Prep-Man
Thanos.

Originally posted by Prep-Man
Thanos stomps.

Thanos sucks on ST's leafy balls.

Originally posted by Prep-Man
Thanos sucks on ST's leafy balls. You're just being silly now.

It's true, though.

Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
He started the insults 1st; I wore him down...

pause

Originally posted by Prep-Man
It's true, though. Whatever you say, comedian.

Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
You just trying to be an ******* about it, but you know I'm right.... Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
He started the insults 1st; I wore him down...



I didn't notice this before until mindset and it was reposted.

Thanos shut down Marvel.
He wins that shit easy.