DC's Mages Vs Marvel's Cosmics

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Prep-Man
Mages:
Dr. Fate
http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/3/31566/826177-hector_1_large.jpg
Arion
http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/1/15696/562182-arion4_large.jpg
Klarion
http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/0/77/81508-50109-klarion_large.jpg
Zatanna
http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/6/65966/1768085-zata_cv15_solicitation_large.jpg
Etrigan
http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/3/31566/933803-demon_15_large.jpg
Sargon The Sorcerer
http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/0/6615/149025-152996-sargon-the-sorcerer_large.jpg
Ibis The Invincible
http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/2/22413/531200-ibis02_large.jpg


vs

Prep-Man
Silver Surfer
http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/8/83789/1801296-mark_brooks_silver_surfer_1_large.jpg
Nova Prime
http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/0/40/86167-189654-nova_large.jpg
Firelord
http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/3/35698/721733-225px_firelord_annihilation_large.jpg
Black Bolt
http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/0/308/89156-86313-black-bolt_large.jpg
Quasar
http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/0/77/76825-52577-quasar_large.jpg
Sersi
http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/6/60352/1839809-cbv_large.png
Beta Ray Bill
http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/0/77/76844-134741-beta-ray-bill_large.jpg

Endless Mike
Team 1

Gecko4lif
Team 1 all the way

nimbus006
Team 1 and probably pretty easily.

BattleMage
Team 2

Prep-Man
How does Team 1 win easily? I think it's a good matchup with a lot of outcomes.

Space M ummy
Originally posted by Prep-Man
How does Team 1 win easily? I think it's a good matchup with a lot of outcomes.

TOO many outcomes.

at a high enough level, cosmic power is indistinguishable from magic.

or put another way, both teams are basically walking plot devices. There isn't anything their collective powers won't be able to do.

One on one would be easier to argue, but team 1 vs. team 2 here is an impossible fight.

Prep-Man
Let's look at it this way:

Surfer Vs Fate
Sersi Vs Zatanna
Beta Ray Bill vs Classic Ibis\
Arion Vs Nova Prime
Klarion Vs Black Bolt
Firelord Vs Sargon
Quasar Vs Etrigan

Sr J-Bieb
Black Bolt screams, team 1 dies to death

Prep-Man
Zatanna:

esrever maercs!

Sr J-Bieb
Originally posted by Prep-Man
Zatanna:

esrever maercs! That certainly happens after he's already screamed and she's supposed to be fighting Sersi...

Space M ummy
Originally posted by Prep-Man
Zatanna:

esrever maercs!

black bolt causes every atom in her body to collide with every other atom, annihilating her instantly without saying anything.

Sersi wiggles her fingers and removes all air, turning the battlefield into a vaccuum. Everyone who can't survive unprotected in space immediately implodes.

...

this could go on for days. there's just too much power with no practical limits on both sides.

Konton
I'll give team magic the edge because their powers don't have to abide by any laws of physics, fictional or otherwise. Realistically team cosmic is equally as formidable in power, but although their powers are horrifically expansive, they /do/ have limitations the mages won't run into.

On the other hand, I guess some of the mages are prone to exhaustion after time has elapsed. You won't have that issue with Sersi or anyone w/ the power cosmic...

Q99
Mages do have to abide by the rules of magic, and it is possible for something to simply be too big for a spell to handle.

JakeTheBank
Team Cosmic also has the ability to absorb/nullify a great deal of magic in the form of Stormbreaker.

Space M ummy
Originally posted by Konton
I'll give team magic the edge because their powers don't have to abide by any laws of physics, fictional or otherwise. Realistically team cosmic is equally as formidable in power, but although their powers are horrifically expansive, they /do/ have limitations the mages won't run into.

On the other hand, I guess some of the mages are prone to exhaustion after time has elapsed. You won't have that issue with Sersi or anyone w/ the power cosmic...

laughing laughing What "laws of physics" apply to the power cosmic? To Stormbreaker? Hell, BRB isn't even a cosmic character per se, that hammer is 100% magic. It can exceed the speed of light and violate the rules of conservation of energy (outputting vastly more power than it absorbs) any time it feels like it.

The only rules that apply are the ones writers arbitrarily put there, and even those are ignored when the plot calls for it.

Basically as I said before BOTH SIDES collectively can accomplish any feat in comics. ANY feat. I'm racking my brain to think of something and simply can't do it- short of flat out bringing back the dead and with time manipulation I'm not even sure about THAT one.

Konton
Rules of magic? huh? Most of these guys derive magical powers from different sources and rarely, if ever, do their magics fail in effect unless acted upon by some mitigating force.

When speaking of the laws of physics in relation to the power cosmic, I may have misspoken. What I meant to say is that we can only allow cosmic characters feats (such as matter manipulation, energy production/absorption, etc) that they have shown in comics; ultimately limiting their abilities at some end. Magic, if we are to present it as a force that innately defies logic and reason, has no limitations at all as long as the caster is proficient (and there are no second-rate mages present here) and in good form.

For example, it is more reasonable to assume that Zatanna could manifest a stream of water even if we had not seen her do so in comics than it is to assume Silver Surfer could manifest the same stream of water with the power cosmic should no wielder of the power cosmic have generated water before.

Cosmic energies and manipulation, at least the way I've seen presented in Marvel, do not defy the laws of physics, but act upon them in ways we, the audience, cannot understand. Magic is just... supposed to be supernatural and innately in violation of those laws.

Granted, you could argue that some dialogue has hinted magic to be just science beyond our comprehension, but I would think it in poor taste to agree with based on the random crazy stuff magic users accomplish on a whim.

Space M ummy
Originally posted by Konton
Rules of magic? huh? Most of these guys derive magical powers from different sources and rarely, if ever, do their magics fail in effect unless acted upon by some mitigating force.

When speaking of the laws of physics in relation to the power cosmic, I may have misspoken. What I meant to say is that we can only allow cosmic characters feats (such as matter manipulation, energy production/absorption, etc) that they have shown in comics; ultimately limiting their abilities at some end. Magic, if we are to present it as a force that innately defies logic and reason, has no limitations at all as long as the caster is proficient (and there are no second-rate mages present here) and in good form.

For example, it is more reasonable to assume that Zatanna could manifest a stream of water even if we had not seen her do so in comics than it is to assume Silver Surfer could manifest the same stream of water with the power cosmic should no wielder of the power cosmic have generated water before.

Cosmic energies and manipulation, at least the way I've seen presented in Marvel, do not defy the laws of physics, but act upon them in ways we, the audience, cannot understand. Magic is just... supposed to be supernatural and innately in violation of those laws.

Granted, you could argue that some dialogue has hinted magic to be just science beyond our comprehension, but I would think it in poor taste to agree with based on the random crazy stuff magic users accomplish on a whim.

Nope. the PC is consistently portrayed as a plot device- frequently doing things that have not been done before and cannot be explained through the laws of physics. It's not a power based in science by any means.

Example: Surfer was able to trap genis in his board simply because he said so. Nothing like that had ever been done before by anyone else (or since, really) but it was acceptable because hey: it's the power cosmic.

Galactus has raised the dead with it, surfer has time traveled with it, etc etc. It does what the story calls for and does not have any hard limitations- science based or otherwise.

Mjolnir/Stormbreaker (I treat them as the same device tbh) is pretty much in the same boat. Every now and then it displays a crazy power and no one questions it.

Space M ummy
To expand further- all of marvel's "cosmic powers" tend to work this way.

The PC tends to be something Galactus uses, but the power of the abstracts (including the tribunal), the power of the cosmic cubes, and the power of the infinity gauntlet are ALSO classified as "cosmic power."

it's just a matter of scale. There really isn't anything the infinity gauntlet or tribunal is not able to accomplish, and they aren't restricted by any laws, physics or otherwise- in fact the gauntlet and the cubes (to a lesser extent) have shown the ability to overwrite those laws at will.

There are feats that are outside of surfer's ability to do (again, I think ressurrecting the dead and creating life are beyond him) but Galactus can do freely, again suggesting that those limitations are just a matter of scale, and not the nature of how cosmic power itself is treated by marvel.

Again, at high enough levels (and heralds are around there) cosmic power and magic are essentially the same thing.

Q99
Originally posted by Konton
Rules of magic? huh? Most of these guys derive magical powers from different sources and rarely, if ever, do their magics fail in effect unless acted upon by some mitigating force.

Most of the time they're doing stuff they know they can do, though.

It's not all that unknown for someone ask them to do something and for them to inform the asker that their magic can't do that (either being magic in general can't, or just they don't have enough omph).

And opposing the power cosmic is what I'd call a 'mitigating force'.




Making a stream can be assumed to be within her abilities, sure, but that's not the same as having no limits.

If she was asked to make an ocean, I'd say, "No, that's probably too much for her."

If she was asked to make an advanced piece of technology, I'd actually assume that if it's too complex and advanced, that'd be out of her range (to name two things I'd say she definitely couldn't, a motherbox and GL ring. Or even a flight-ring, I think she'd at best end up making a magic item that mimiced it's general functions but wouldn't truly be a Legion ring and might lack some of it's more minor functions), and she'd have a better chance than just about any other mage here since flexibility of magic is her thing compared to most. Even next to the likes of Fate and Arion, their powers don't do nearly as many different effects (they seem more 'pure magic,' that is they're really really good at manipulating raw magic for stuff like shields, counterspells, etc., while reverse speak magic is generally a lot more physical and about using magic to cause a specific attack rather than just throw a raw bolt of it).




In-comic, they certainly don't act like magic can do anything.

Versatile and limitless aren't synonyms.

Mindset
Originally posted by Sr J-Bieb
Black Bolt screams, team 1 dies to death The only possible outcome.

Prep-Man
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Team Cosmic also has the ability to absorb/nullify a great deal of magic in the form of Stormbreaker.

Ibis stick can pretty much do the same. And a whole lot more.

Konton
well, alright then

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