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CIS and PIS is off for Zoom.

Odin can not destroy or change the battle field and there is no time stopping for this battle.

Who wins?

u mad

Didn't I already pretty much make a massive thread on this?

Rage thought Zoom won.

Zoom has his own SF now no?

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
Didn't I already pretty much make a massive thread on this?

Rage thought Zoom won.


Pretty much and it went on for page after page no need to do that again.

what has Odin ever done to be a match for Zoom?

Originally posted by inimalist
what has Odin ever done to be a match for Zoom?

Nothing.

Odin wins.

What has Zoom ever done to be a match for Odin?

biscuits

^pawn flash.

This is spite against Zoom. How the hell do you think Zoom can even survive against Odin let alone hurt him (especially if Thanos couldn't even budge Odin let alone hurt him).

Odin 10/10.

Originally posted by zopzop
This is spite against Zoom. How the hell do you think Zoom can even survive against Odin let alone hurt him (especially if Thanos couldn't even budge Odin let alone hurt him).

Odin 10/10. Ever heard of the IMP? Ever heard of someone being a statue?

^ How many times does Zoom hit Odin before he can react again?

Odin isn't winning that's for sure
potentially 1 million IMPS to the face and not being able to hit him at all would cause a problem.

Originally posted by h1a8
^pawn flash.

Flash is beyond Skyfather now?

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Flash is beyond Skyfather now?

flash is at least a lower order abstract

IMP! statue! speedforce! rabble!

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
^ How many times does Zoom hit Odin before he can react again? One of the flashs showed attosecond reaction time yet Zoom>them. An attosecond is to a second is the same as a second is to about 31.71 billion years.

Also the IMP can be ANY force Zooms wants. He could make it a billion tons, a quintillion tons, the mass of a galaxy, the mass of thousands of galaxys, etc. It could only take one punch minimum if Zoom wanted it to.

But could Flash (or Zoom) beat Wrestlemania Black Lantern Undertaker?

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Flash is beyond Skyfather now?

Only when he is fighting one that can die and he's at his best. In all other situations, no he isn't. So on average, flash isn't beyond Skyfater leve.

Originally posted by h1a8
One of the flashs showed attosecond reaction time yet Zoom>them. An attosecond is to a second is the same as a second is to about 31.71 billion years.

Also the IMP can be ANY force Zooms wants. He could make it a billion tons, a quintillion tons, the mass of a galaxy, the mass of thousands of galaxys, etc. It could only take one punch minimum if Zoom wanted it to.

So you're telling me...

With a straight face...

That Zoom....

Can hit with the force of thousands of galaxies?

http://i364.photobucket.com/albums/oo86/HeathFan08/joker-14.gif

Originally posted by h1a8
Ever heard of the IMP? Ever heard of someone being a statue?

Odin isn't some high herald or even powerful trans tier character, Odin is a high end SKYFATHER that's busted galaxies on a whim.

Odin didn't even budge an inch when Thanos was unloading on him, the same Thanos that knocked Galactus off his feet and clear across a moon so IMPs aren't going to do jack.

Odin transmutes Zoom to an insect then steps on him. Fight over.

Originally posted by h1a8
One of the flashs showed attosecond reaction time yet Zoom>them. An attosecond is to a second is the same as a second is to about 31.71 billion years.

Also the IMP can be ANY force Zooms wants. He could make it a billion tons, a quintillion tons, the mass of a galaxy, the mass of thousands of galaxys, etc. It could only take one punch minimum if Zoom wanted it to. You didn't answer my question. How many punches does he throw before Odin is capable of reacting, taking for granted that they are as powerful as you say?

Originally posted by h1a8
One of the flashs showed attosecond reaction time yet Zoom>them. An attosecond is to a second is the same as a second is to about 31.71 billion years.

Also the IMP can be ANY force Zooms wants. He could make it a billion tons, a quintillion tons, the mass of a galaxy, the mass of thousands of galaxys, etc. It could only take one punch minimum if Zoom wanted it to. Zoom goes as fast as he wants anyways. Even if the force is debatable.

Originally posted by SasuOna
Odin isn't winning that's for sure
potentially 1 million IMPS to the face and not being able to hit him at all would cause a problem. I love the arguments which never occur in arguments. So harmless.

Can Odin react before Zoom hits him? No
Can Odin tank multiple IMPS? No
Can Odin hit a CISless Zoom with any of his attacks? No

Hmmm I'm finding it really hard to see how Odin can win this

Cue Odin is a skyfather argument in 3,2,....1

Zoom hasn't shown the damage output needed to beat Odin.

Odin wins.

Originally posted by SasuOna
Can Odin react before Zoom hits him? No
Can Odin tank multiple IMPS? No
Can Odin hit a CISless Zoom with any of his attacks? No

Hmmm I'm finding it really hard to see how Odin can win this

Cue Odin is a skyfather argument in 3,2,....1

Since it's obvious Zoom would beat Galactus, would he iyo beat a Celestial or Eternity?

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Since it's obvious Zoom would beat Galactus, would he iyo beat a Celestial or Eternity?

Hater! Why you lowballing Zoom? Eternity?! That guys jobbed to everyone and their mother. Zoom >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>LT.

i know, we've been over this. it's hilarious the extent to which zoom's side will extrapolate, and how far beyond anything EVER SHOWN IN THE COMICS they are willing to go to say he COULD POTENTIALLY win. it was also established by some that zoom could beat galactus. funny though, a true limit was never REALLY established and people really seemed to back off when their arguments were extended to their logical conclusions.

funny what happens when you have zero evidence to back up a stance and rely solely on comicbook math and science to presuppose something that makes no logical sense.

ftr, zoom beats everyone who is not toaa or at least lucifer level fools.

If nothing else, this thread will be fun.

Who is the HIGHEST LEVEL PERSON ZOOM or FLASH has EVER speedblized with even 100 imps to KO them? Please name them for me..and please, people in Odin's range.

saw that edit....

and me too.

last thread became NOT fun. you realize h1 is saying zoom can hit with INFINITE force, and can hit AS MANY TIMES AS HE WANTS.

i just--there's no words--i can't wrap--it's LUDICROUS!!! honestly. lu-di-crous.

If Odin can weather an initial blitz then he almost certainly wins.

But to me there's no question that Zoom will be able to blitz Odin. So the question is basically just "how powerful are Zoom's punches, how many can he throw before Odin can react, and how great is Odin's durability?"

IMO Zoom stands a fine chance of being able to beat down Odin before he can react, but then I'm sure many will argue otherwise.

I don't for instance believe that Odin can't be effected by anything less than Galaxy busting force, but that's just me.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Who is the HIGHEST LEVEL PERSON ZOOM or FLASH has EVER speedblized with even 100 imps to KO them? Please name them for me..and please, people in Odin's range.

funny thing is, in all of flash's history, it was established that he has used precisely (wait for it......) ONE imp! people claim he uses them all the time but that they are never actually named!

and zoom? he's--on panel--never used a SINGLE ONE!! least that's what came out of the last thread. if it's changed, i'd love to see it.....

the claim that zoom can beat odin is so laughable that it really doesn't bear arguing, and yet one side is utterly ADAMANT that not only does odin lose, he HAS NO CHANCE. he's killed before he even knows what happened.

it beggars description.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
If Odin can weather an initial blitz then he almost certainly wins.

But to me there's no question that Zoom will be able to blitz Odin. So the question is basically just "how powerful are Zoom's punches, how many can he throw before Odin can react, and how great is Odin's durability?"

IMO Zoom stands a fine chance of being able to beat down Odin before he can react, but then I'm sure many will argue otherwise.

I don't for instance believe that Odin can't be effected by anything less than Galaxy busting force, but that's just me.

He weathered Thanos without flinching, he'll survive Zoom just fine and then crush him.

Originally posted by leonidas
funny thing is, in all of flash's history, it was established that he has used precisely (wait for it......) ONE imp! people claim he uses them all the time but that they are never actually named!

and zoom? he's--on panel--never used a SINGLE ONE!! least that's what came out of the last thread. if it's changed, i'd love to see it.....

the claim that zoom can beat odin is so laughable that it really doesn't bear arguing, and yet one side is utterly ADAMANT that not only does odin lose, he HAS NO CHANCE. he's killed before he even knows what happened.

it beggars description.

It's like 2006 all over again...

Originally posted by Omega Vision
If Odin can weather an initial blitz then he almost certainly wins.

But to me there's no question that Zoom will be able to blitz Odin. So the question is basically just "how powerful are Zoom's punches, how many can he throw before Odin can react, and how great is Odin's durability?"

IMO Zoom stands a fine chance of being able to beat down Odin before he can react, but then I'm sure many will argue otherwise.

I don't for instance believe that Odin can't be effected by anything less than Galaxy busting force, but that's just me. Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Who is the HIGHEST LEVEL PERSON ZOOM or FLASH has EVER speedblized with even 100 imps SHIT OR ONE IMP to KO them? Please name them for me..and please, people in Odin's range.

^KT who is the fastest character Odin has tagged? C'mon son that game is whack.
Originally posted by zopzop
He weathered Thanos without flinching, he'll survive Zoom just fine and then crush him.
How is that comparable?

Thanos laid one punch before getting smacked back.

Zoom will be throwing Superman level punches before Odin can raise a defense.

Look I can't with absolute certainty say that Zoom could take Odin down, but I don't think it's impossible.

^ Do you have an opinion on the below question? Originally posted by OneDumbG0
How many punches does he throw before Odin is capable of reacting, taking for granted that they are as powerful as you say?

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
^ Do you have an opinion on the below question?
I really have no clue.

It's why I've not made a firm statement that Zoom would win, just that I believe it's not totally impossible that he could.

Ask Galan, he's kind of the Zoom expert here.

^ So would 1,000,000 be a reasonable estimate given Zoom's speed?

EDIT: Saw your edit. uhuh

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
^ So would 1,000,000 be a reasonable estimate given Zoom's speed?
If it happened in a comic I wouldn't be insulted.

And no, you won't get any straight answers from me, bucko. awesome

^ I be fishing, and I ain't be gettin no bites. Not one. arrrgh

Odin tanked a punched from Thanos?
I guess Zoom's multiple IMPS obviously pale in comparison to that destructive force.

Originally posted by illadelph12
It's like 2006 all over again... It's amazing how circular things can become.

And Zoom uses time based powers, at least I'm assuming that still is the case.

In which case I would think Odin has an easier time with Zoom then he would with Flash.

Odin has a large time based arsenal himself that can probably nullify Zoom's.

Plus this argument went the distance last time to some ridiculous things. I still feel that yes Zoom could land a billion years worth of punches on us but we're not talking about a normal human level mind we're talking about Odin.

Originally posted by SasuOna
Odin tanked a punched from Thanos?
I guess Zoom's multiple IMPS obviously pale in comparison to that destructive force.

How many IMP's?

Originally posted by h1a8
^pawn flash.


beating flash does not put you on par with odin .

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
^ I be fishing, and I ain't be gettin no bites. Not one. arrrgh

oh, i'll bite. let's say he could land 10 000 000 punches before odin can throw one.

i wonder--is zoom's endurance also infinite?

Thousands. Of. Galaxies.

I still can't get over that.

Didn't Zoom hit Power Girl with a billion hits... that did nothing to her?

...

Originally posted by zeel
beating flash does not put you on par with odin . Actually Flash in comics vs a forum flash is very very one sided. Flash hardly ever breaks the speedforce barrier which puts him above constraints such as time which would make zoom's timestop useless. In comic he's done it without assistance but whenever Zoom is around he seems to struggle with FTL movement.

Originally posted by leonidas
oh, i'll bite. let's say he could land 10 000 000 punches before odin can throw one.

i wonder--is zoom's endurance also infinite? It shouldn't be but I haven't kept up with him since negative speed force nonsense. His power was purely timestop originally he should have been constrained to the normal endurance of a person in terms of distance he could go unless he was resting while time stopped.

If the most powerful person Zoom beat is Flash, then how is this not a spite thread?

Originally posted by zopzop
If the most powerful person Zoom beat is Flash, then how is this not a spite thread? He almost beat up a blind Wonder Woman once

Oh god not this again..

Because Flash in a forum setting is like a cube being or abstract.

Seriously, like others have said, taking these...shaky - which is being kind - arguments to their logical conclusion winds up with Flash (and/or Zoom) leveling beings with force so far beyond comprehension, they'd likely be shattering Celestials and beating down abstracts while busting untold galaxies in a single second.

It's absurd as shit. Nothing in the comics come even CLOSE to displaying the kind of arguments we see for these two and yet, we're supposed to be believe that "without CIS" they can unload physical punishment so far beyond top tiers as Superman and Thor that their damage output can equal the mass of thousands of galaxies?

****. That.

@JakeTheBank & Sr J-Bieb

So then this is a spite thread and an idiotic one at that.

Originally posted by leonidas
oh, i'll bite. let's say he could land 10 000 000 punches before odin can throw one. Sort of defeats the purpose. grumpy Originally posted by leonidas
i wonder--is zoom's endurance also infinite? The speedsters' endurance shouldn't be infinite. And it's consistently referenced that the Flashes require increased nutrition to sustain their increased metabolism.

But based on feats, for all intents and purposes, their stamina is practically infinite. For example, Barry effortlessly fixed an entire building in an instant (which would require laying each brick, hammering each nail, painting each wall, etc.) without stopping. That's gotta be like thousands if not millions of individual actions within the course of an instant.

Wally himself carried 532,000 individuals (one or two at a time) without stopping in an instant. With that number, running to and from and lifting and placing each person must be millions of arm/leg movements. All without a break.

If an IMP is just a simple punch while approaching light speed -- and Flashes can, in fact, perform millions of movements like throwing your fist -- it seems that they can throw millions of IMPs without getting tired.

And well, Zoom and the Flashes could just rest in their own localized but accelerated time in between doing all their shenanigans if they needed to take a breather. That's if you give their superspeed its full faith and credit on a purely extrapolatory viewpoint. Which begs the question: should we be doing that?

alright, so, obviously the consensus is that this flash/zoom nonsense is at its end

my question is this, given I don't know a lot of DC, how do you guys think Zoom would fare against superman, manhunter, WW or GL?

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
That's if you give their superspeed its full faith and credit on a purely extrapolatory viewpoint. Which begs the question: should we be doing that?

i don't think we CAN. because it has never been shown what that end might be. i'm willing to give some lee-way for the sake of cis in their cases, but to go as far as some are willing to go?

imo, no. there has to be at least SOME sort of proof to support these kinds of claims, and i don't see it. can they throw a million punches? sure. can they throw a million imps when we've really only ever seen flash throw ONE and zoom....never?

i think extrapolation has it's place--bu it can't be given free reign. least not imo, and not without a LOT more evidence to suggest anything of this magnitude.

Originally posted by leonidas
i don't think we CAN. because it has never been shown what that end might be. i'm willing to give some lee-way for the sake of cis in their cases, but to go as far as some are willing to go?

imo, no. there has to be at least SOME sort of proof to support these kinds of claims, and i don't see it. can they throw a million punches? sure. can they throw a million imps when we've really only ever seen flash throw ONE and zoom....never?

i think extrapolation has it's place--bu it can't be given free reign. least not imo, and not without a LOT more evidence to suggest anything of this magnitude. It's not necessarily the assumption that he can do so but more of facts at least for flashes IMP numbers If he swings his arms for the steps he takes at light speed going by how the IMP works every one of those arm pumps is an IMP based on the fact that the IMP is just flash oving at near/above lightspeed at the point of impact. He can accelerate his arms that fast so it really wouldn't be an issue. Zoom hits as hard as superman on fingersnaps and you mean to tell me the average person cant snap their fingers repeatedly given all the time in the world..

which zoom?

Originally posted by Uriel005
It's not necessarily the assumption that he can do so but more of facts at least for flashes IMP numbers If he swings his arms for the steps he takes at light speed going by how the IMP works every one of those arm pumps is an IMP based on the fact that the IMP is just flash oving at near/above lightspeed at the point of impact. He can accelerate his arms that fast so it really wouldn't be an issue. Zoom hits as hard as superman on fingersnaps and you mean to tell me the average person cant snap their fingers repeatedly given all the time in the world.. So anybody moving Lightspeed would be capable of achieving IMPS, so Thor flying around would be able to deliver IMPs as fast as he can twirl his hammer.

Cause the logic you are using fits the same bill.

Originally posted by leonidas
i don't think we CAN. because it has never been shown what that end might be. i'm willing to give some lee-way for the sake of cis in their cases, but to go as far as some are willing to go?

imo, no. there has to be at least SOME sort of proof to support these kinds of claims, and i don't see it. can they throw a million punches? sure. can they throw a million imps when we've really only ever seen flash throw ONE and zoom....never?

i think extrapolation has it's place--bu it can't be given free reign. least not imo, and not without a LOT more evidence to suggest anything of this magnitude. Well, disregarding IMPs for a second, doesn't Zoom at superspeed levels hit as hard as Superman anyway?

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
So you're telling me...

With a straight face...

That Zoom....

Can hit with the force of thousands of galaxies?

http://i364.photobucket.com/albums/oo86/HeathFan08/joker-14.gif Yes! INFINITE MASS PUNCH. The closer one gets to the speed of light then the more mass they gain. Zoom can get as close as to the speed of light as he wants and thus making the force of his punch ANYTHING HE WANTS.

Originally posted by zopzop
Odin isn't some high herald or even powerful trans tier character, Odin is a high end SKYFATHER that's busted galaxies on a whim.

Odin didn't even budge an inch when Thanos was unloading on him, the same Thanos that knocked Galactus off his feet and clear across a moon so IMPs aren't going to do jack.

Odin transmutes Zoom to an insect then steps on him. Fight over. Galactus didn't brace, he was caught off guard.

Again, an IMP can be greater than any physical force that Thanos can exert. How is Odin going to turn anyone to anything when he is a statue?

Originally posted by SasuOna
Can Odin react before Zoom hits him? No
Can Odin tank multiple IMPS? No
Can Odin hit a CISless Zoom with any of his attacks? No

Hmmm I'm finding it really hard to see how Odin can win this

Cue Odin is a skyfather argument in 3,2,....1 When has Zoom showed the power to destroy a galaxy ? Odin can amp his size. Zoom has hit people far less than Odin with millions of punches not even koing them so you don't have any evidence whatsoever to prove he can ko Odin especially Odin amping his own abilities and fighting at his best.

If you can't show an argument from a comic then you don't have an argument. You never have hence the hilarity/desperation.

Originally posted by quanchi112
When has Zoom showed the power to destroy a galaxy ? Odin can amp his size. Zoom has hit people far less than Odin with millions of punches not even koing them so you don't have any evidence whatsoever to prove he can ko Odin especially Odin amping his own abilities and fighting at his best.

If you can't show an argument from a comic then you don't have an argument. You never have hence the hilarity/desperation.

He doesn't need to show it for it is implied when D.C. explained IMP (which is based off special relativity). Zoom doesn't kill he just wants to instruct.

An attosecond to a second is the same as a second to 31.71 billion years.
How many punches can Zoom you throw in 31.71 billion years where each punch is as powerful as he wants it to be?

Originally posted by h1a8
He doesn't need to show it for it is implied when D.C. explained IMP (which is based off special relativity). Zoom doesn't kill he just wants to instruct.

An attosecond to a second is the same as a second to 31.71 billion years.
How many punches can Zoom you throw in 31.71 billion years where each punch is as powerful as he wants it to be? You need to prove it then based off of comics. We've seen him throw millions of punches and to say Odin perceives things when he can see earth from another dimension, can freeze time himself, is just plain ridiculous.

We've seen Zoom fail to beat top tiers with his millions of punches and hit as hard as Superman which won't do much if anything to Odin.

Originally posted by h1a8
One of the flashs showed attosecond reaction time yet Zoom>them. An attosecond is to a second is the same as a second is to about 31.71 billion years.

Also the IMP can be ANY force Zooms wants. He could make it a billion tons, a quintillion tons, the mass of a galaxy, the mass of thousands of galaxys, etc. It could only take one punch minimum if Zoom wanted it to. Originally posted by OneDumbG0
You didn't answer my question. How many punches does he throw before Odin is capable of reacting, taking for granted that they are as powerful as you say?

Originally posted by Newjak
So anybody moving Lightspeed would be capable of achieving IMPS, so Thor flying around would be able to deliver IMPs as fast as he can twirl his hammer.

Cause the logic you are using fits the same bill.

funny thing is, I ASKED THIS ABOUT HALF-A-DOZEN TIMES IN THE LAST THREAD!!

and even if someone wants to say--it only works in DC, well, than superman can do so as well (and i think he HAS--he shattered a moon or something, can't recall exactly the context). but.... no one really wants to seem to pursue that particular logic string to it's end. apparently only flash or zoom can use an IMP, though, logically, there is no reason whatsoever that would say others couldn't do it.

except, well....... they haven't. you, know, like zoom hasn't.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Well, disregarding IMPs for a second, doesn't Zoom at superspeed levels hit as hard as Superman anyway?

it seemed that way according to ww at least.

my problem with characters like flash and zoom is a simple one--to accept pis/cis in their cases renders ALL OF THEIR APPEARANCES effectively disingenuous. all the times they've ever been in trouble from a villain, almost everytime their was a threat to thmeselves or the earth or their 'loved ones', all of that was allowed because they were stupid, and because the plot called for them to NOT use their powers effectively. it makes them the dumbest characters ever. seriously. why would anyone read them if the premise is they COULD beat everyone, it's just the writers ACTIVELY WORKING AGAINST THEM. almost everytime.

so, for me, personally, i prefer to use their most consistent showings to gauge the extent of their powers.

i'm not even claiming it's illogical to say he could throw a billion superman punches (though it is equally logical clark could throw at least thousands of imp's as well), what i'm saying is that because he has never done anything REMOTELY CLOSE, we can't just say he could OBVIOUSLY do so. imo, it is far too big a departure from what we have actually seen, and seems to go against what the character is intended to be. at least, again, imo.

Originally posted by leonidas
funny thing is, I ASKED THIS ABOUT HALF-A-DOZEN TIMES IN THE LAST THREAD!!

and even if someone wants to say--it only works in DC, well, than superman can do so as well (and i think he HAS--he shattered a moon or something, can't recall exactly the context). but.... no one really wants to seem to pursue that particular logic string to it's end. apparently only flash or zoom can use an IMP, though, logically, there is no reason whatsoever that would say others couldn't do it.

except, well....... they haven't. you, know, like zoom hasn't. I call it selective reasoning. I think we've all been guilty of it at some point.

And yeah Flash is the only person to use an IMP.

Personally people like to pursue everything to to its logical real world conclusion but neglect to remember we're not dealing with real world beings.

Odin isn't like us and bound by our human forms of logic. Heck he can seemingly make something from nothing, you have any idea how many laws of physics that little tid bit alone breaks.

He can see and perceive lightyears worth of space and time at a single glance.

I know using the argument he is a Skyfather is kind of pointless but when you see what Odin can do its hard to argue against him unless he is going against a clear superior and higher up on the food chain.

Originally posted by Newjak
So anybody moving Lightspeed would be capable of achieving IMPS, so Thor flying around would be able to deliver IMPs as fast as he can twirl his hammer.

Cause the logic you are using fits the same bill. never said it makes sense or that I agree with it but its the way the IMP is described in comics. Real world physics says this should be true as well but apparently flash and other speedforce speedsters are the only ones capable of it for some reason, But yeah by the way it is described him just pumping his arms when he lightspeed runs should all be IMP. But as I've argued before it's just too broken to be viable in comics.

It's the same reason he doesn't speedforce barrier break around Zoom. If you had him do it all the time then there would be no story and it is possible for Barry Bart Wally and a few other speedforce users to do without assistance. It is the ultimate form of movement bar having something like worlogog or Space gem. Nothing should ever be able to hit them as they are going too fast and if anyone omnidirectional blasted then under the wonky rules of the speedforce due to it being its own dimension which the flashes can enter they could walk into the speedforce dimension to dodge the attack regardless of what it is.

So we can conclude this about the flash


1) As fast as he can move his arms he can punch
a) He can move his arms at speedforce barrer break level and deliver a ridiculous number of punches faster than 1/picosecond because he is breaking the absolute limitation of speed on the universe at a speedforce barrier break level.
b) as long as they are FTL they are all IMP

2) Unless you can access speedforce dimension which requires speedforce powers to access as far as I'm aware you can't stop the Flash from dodging any attack you make simply by running into the speedforce dimension.

3) Speedforce has some wonky rules and abilities like fighting the anti-life equation which btw if anyone could explain that to me I'd be quite grateful.

So if Odin diverted his time power to achieve existing or moving ahead in time like how zoom's power work, Odin would also be able to move faster than light and deliver IMP as well right?

Originally posted by WhiteWitchKing
So if Odin diverted his time power to achieve existing or moving ahead in time like how zoom's power work, Odin would also be able to move faster than light and deliver IMP as well right? should he be able to like any other character capable of FTL yes. But would he? probably not.

Its just as disingenuous to say that Odin can not be held to the standards of other characters because hes not human or "hes a skyfather". Whats the point in debating anything if we aren't at least honest and trying to use some logic when debating about these characters.

If Odin can see light years away does that mean that he can prevent himself from looking like a statue to the Flash?
If Odin's best physical durability feat un amped is taking a punch from Thanos does that mean he can weather a blitz of IMPS?

This thread uses circular logic because one side refuses or should I say prefers to not look at a perspective were a highly fictionalized universe uses logic that indeed applies to something other then said fictional universe.
Its annoying

Originally posted by h1a8
Yes! INFINITE MASS PUNCH. The closer one gets to the speed of light then the more mass they gain. Zoom can get as close as to the speed of light as he wants and thus making the force of his punch ANYTHING HE WANTS.

Show me anything in the comics suggesting or hinting at Zoom doing an IMP, much less being able to hit with the force of "anything he wants", much less the force of thousands of galaxies.

Seriously, this shit needs to stop. Nothing about the Flashes/Speedforce/etc suggest anything close to them being able to hit with the force of an entire galaxy, much less thousands of them. No writer has ever tried to push that as their upper limit of power. It's an incredible baseless assumption and the definition of no limits fallacy and makes Zoom/Flash characters on a level there was never any intent in making them.

Originally posted by SasuOna
Its annoying

I know rite?

Thousands of galaxies worth of striking power, extrapolating Flash and Zoom to levels that their comics never put them or even allude to if they "go all out"...

It's incredibly annoying.

Originally posted by SasuOna
Its just as disingenuous to say that Odin can not be held to the standards of other characters because hes not human or "hes a skyfather". Whats the point in debating anything if we aren't at least honest and trying to use some logic when debating about these characters.

If Odin can see light years away does that mean that he can prevent himself from looking like a statue to the Flash?
If Odin's best physical durability feat un amped is taking a punch from Thanos does that mean he can weather a blitz of IMPS?

This thread uses circular logic because one side refuses or should I say prefers to not look at a perspective were a highly fictionalized universe uses logic that indeed applies to something other then said fictional universe.
Its annoying
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Since it's obvious Zoom would beat Galactus, would he iyo beat a Celestial or Eternity?

Originally posted by SasuOna
Its just as disingenuous to say that Odin can not be held to the standards of other characters because hes not human or "hes a skyfather". Whats the point in debating anything if we aren't at least honest and trying to use some logic when debating about these characters.

If Odin can see light years away does that mean that he can prevent himself from looking like a statue to the Flash?
If Odin's best physical durability feat un amped is taking a punch from Thanos does that mean he can weather a blitz of IMPS?

This thread uses circular logic because one side refuses or should I say prefers to not look at a perspective were a highly fictionalized universe uses logic that indeed applies to something other then said fictional universe.
Its annoying Show Zoom performing multiple imps.

Odin can freeze time if you want to do the powerset argument and alter his size. Being able to see across multiple dimensions and having the power to freeze time also leads us to believe his perceptions are more than enough for Zoom since WW has been able to defeat him before.


If you can't back up your claims with examples of Zoom doing what you describe then you are just making things up.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
You didn't answer my question. How many punches does he throw before Odin is capable of reacting, taking for granted that they are as powerful as you say? The better question is, how many of those attacks will be blocked by Thor with his faster than instant reflexes?

so, just because I'm a pedant:

it might be prudent for anyone appealing to "special relativity" to explain an IMP to realize they are actually arguing against it. the short reason being that something with infinite mass would actually cause the universe to collapse upon itself. I can expand on this, but to claim an IMP is "how it works in the real world" is nonsense.

odin rape stomps him

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Show me anything in the comics suggesting or hinting at Zoom doing an IMP, much less being able to hit with the force of "anything he wants", much less the force of thousands of galaxies.

Seriously, this shit needs to stop. Nothing about the Flashes/Speedforce/etc suggest anything close to them being able to hit with the force of an entire galaxy, much less thousands of them. No writer has ever tried to push that as their upper limit of power. It's an incredible baseless assumption and the definition of no limits fallacy and makes Zoom/Flash characters on a level there was never any intent in making them. wrong everything is backable at least for the flash I'll dig for scans. But you're dead wrong about a CISless PIS less flash not being absurdly powerful. You still haven't proven anything I said wrong other than saying it's senseless extrapolation despite having taken everything from on panel statements about the speedforce and the IMP.

Without CIS Flash WILL go for the speedforce barrier, tap its energies and become untouchable.

Throw an omnidirectional blast big deal he jumps into the speedforce dimension to dodge it.

You wanna call bull on consecutive IMP well look at the actual explanation for it in comic. Yes it doesn't make sense but the way it's explained allows for consecutive IMP and Flashes endurance isn't an issue as he's backed by the near limitless energy of the speedforce. He can outrun time and even death itself. Zoom really should be no issue to him but you need a villain that can stand up to flash and time manips just happened to be writers choice despite the fact that it is shown that on several occasions those experienced with Speedforce capabilities can run through time at will.

Now stop dicking around saying that OMG Flash and Zoom can't be that broken an tossing out OMG ODIN IS SKYFATHER HOW DOES HE LOSE TO SPEEDSTERS. You have yet to put out one compelling argument that would put Odin above Flash.


Back to the subject of Zoom, without time manips and due to the fact that Zoom finger snapping is Superman punches I don't see how Odin can stop him short of an omnidirectional planet busting blast. However due to stips that also isn't viable so explain to me how exactly Odin is going to handle the equivilant to an all day pounding by superman (which is Zoom's damn fingersnaps let alone punches).

Originally posted by Uriel005
wrong everything is backable at least for the flash I'll dig for scans. But you're dead wrong about a CISless PIS less flash not being absurdly powerful. You still haven't proven anything I said wrong other than saying it's senseless extrapolation despite having taken everything from on panel statements about the speedforce and the IMP.

Without CIS Flash WILL go for the speedforce barrier, tap its energies and become untouchable.

Throw an omnidirectional blast big deal he jumps into the speedforce dimension to dodge it.

You wanna call bull on consecutive IMP well look at the actual explanation for it in comic. Yes it doesn't make sense but the way it's explained allows for consecutive IMP and Flashes endurance isn't an issue as he's backed by the near limitless energy of the speedforce. He can outrun time and even death itself. Zoom really should be no issue to him but you need a villain that can stand up to flash and time manips just happened to be writers choice despite the fact that it is shown that on several occasions those experienced with Speedforce capabilities can run through time at will.

Now stop dicking around saying that OMG Flash and Zoom can't be that broken an tossing out OMG ODIN IS SKYFATHER HOW DOES HE LOSE TO SPEEDSTERS. You have yet to put out one compelling argument that would put Odin above Flash.


Back to the subject of Zoom, without time manips and due to the fact that Zoom finger snapping is Superman punches I don't see how Odin can stop him short of an omnidirectional planet busting blast. However due to stips that also isn't viable so explain to me how exactly Odin is going to handle the equivilant to an all day pounding by superman (which is Zoom's damn fingersnaps let alone punches). I find the whole thing redundant cause if you take PIS/CIS away from any high herald character they can sound broken and ridiculously over powered.

Which is why I think it tends to be crazy to think that way. It's all relative for instance Odin could just cut of Flash's connection to the Speedforce. Why not, he and people using only fraction of his power have been able to do similar things.

And I think Zoom's punches are overrated.

I can guarantee you make a thread about who hits harder and Superman will win that debate all day everyday.

Heck I'll use the Silver Surfer. The limits of his power are directly proportional to his thinking process. He can scan and classify every living thing on planet. He can think it ridiculous times. He once changed and altered every space fairing ship on a planet in the time it took him to blink so that they could have the power to escape a planet.


He can also use his abilities to see the past present and future at all times in a given place.

Therefore he uses his abilities of incredible thinking and perceptions of time to see everything that will happen and everything that has happened and uses to to make the area around him basically motionless and anybody in it he alters their DNA, he has done so before, so that anybody with superpowers are instantly depowered to and that any energy connections are totally canclled. Basically Surfer should be able to turn anyone into a human being and thus can beat anyone because he should be able to do it instantly anytime he wants.

Much like Zoom but instead of having to move he just simply has to think.

So why doesn't Silver Surfer get auto wins everytime and overblown like Flash cause,

Take any number of characters and you extrapolate to this level of craziness to make them sound unbeatable. You know the reasons their not is because its relative and the other characters are so broken as well that they can do these insane things as well and have shown abilities to counter them.

And you find this on the board all the time Silver Surfer actually was being talked and argued that he could do what i jsut said to any character. Why isn't it the case anymore cause people finally mellowed out and realized every character at that level can do those types of things or can resist those types of things.

The flash is the same way.

Uriel... PLEASE SHOW ME THE FLASH blizting in the manner you're talking about.. right from the start.. against an enemy he doesn't know.. on the level of Odin.. and KOing him before he can counter. You claim all this is backed up by comics.. yet it's actually the opposite.. NONE of that IS backed up by comics which is the exact point we are making.

We're just rehashing my other thread.

Zoom hits with Superman level punches, and is fast enough that few can react to him. He's the type of character who stomps the opponent or the opponent stomps him, there's no two ways about it.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Uriel... PLEASE SHOW ME THE FLASH blizting in the manner you're talking about.. right from the start.. against an enemy he doesn't know.. on the level of Odin.. and KOing him before he can counter. You claim all this is backed up by comics.. yet it's actually the opposite.. NONE of that IS backed up by comics which is the exact point we are making. CIS less situation

Originally posted by h1a8
He doesn't need to show it for it is implied when D.C. explained IMP (which is based off special relativity). Zoom doesn't kill he just wants to instruct.

An attosecond to a second is the same as a second to 31.71 billion years.
How many punches can Zoom you throw in 31.71 billion years where each punch is as powerful as he wants it to be?

So, how many punchs can Zoom throw before Odin can react?

Originally posted by Uriel005
wrong everything is backable at least for the flash I'll dig for scans. But you're dead wrong about a CISless PIS less flash not being absurdly powerful. You still haven't proven anything I said wrong other than saying it's senseless extrapolation despite having taken everything from on panel statements about the speedforce and the IMP.

Without CIS Flash WILL go for the speedforce barrier, tap its energies and become untouchable.

Throw an omnidirectional blast big deal he jumps into the speedforce dimension to dodge it.

You wanna call bull on consecutive IMP well look at the actual explanation for it in comic. Yes it doesn't make sense but the way it's explained allows for consecutive IMP and Flashes endurance isn't an issue as he's backed by the near limitless energy of the speedforce. He can outrun time and even death itself. Zoom really should be no issue to him but you need a villain that can stand up to flash and time manips just happened to be writers choice despite the fact that it is shown that on several occasions those experienced with Speedforce capabilities can run through time at will.

Now stop dicking around saying that OMG Flash and Zoom can't be that broken an tossing out OMG ODIN IS SKYFATHER HOW DOES HE LOSE TO SPEEDSTERS. You have yet to put out one compelling argument that would put Odin above Flash.


Back to the subject of Zoom, without time manips and due to the fact that Zoom finger snapping is Superman punches I don't see how Odin can stop him short of an omnidirectional planet busting blast. However due to stips that also isn't viable so explain to me how exactly Odin is going to handle the equivilant to an all day pounding by superman (which is Zoom's damn fingersnaps let alone punches).

Never said Flash/Zoom weren't absurdly powerful. I am saying and calling BULLSHIT on either of them hitting with the force of galaxies. The rest of this post is basically a bunch of rehashed nonsense that's already been debated on.

Really there are only two questions that have yet to be answered:

How many punches can Zoom throw before Odin can react?

And how does Zoom fare against Celestials and beings such as Eternity?

And btw, CIS off =/= make shit up based on how we think powersets should work.

Say, what happens when a foe just levitates in the air against a non-flyer like Zoom?
Does Zoom just keep running around underneath yelling out: "FigggghhttMeeeeee..."?

the other thing to remember as well--we've never even SEEN odin combat anyone like zoom or flash. so how the battle would go is obviously purely speculative. the one time thor (with the odin force) fought a speedster, (can't for the life of me recall his f'n name.....) thor matched him just fine. up UNTIL that time, no one had EVER seen the odinpower tackle a speedster AT ALL. with the odin force, thor was EASILY matching that god. is it zoom? or flash? no. but how many would have said he could battle h2h against a god of speed before the fight happened? odin uses new powers in situations all the time--as a skyfather, it's one of the benefits. could be match flash/zoom in speed? no, probably not. could be amp his own reaction times to heavily reduce the advantage they have? i'd say yes, that is certainly reasonable, since thor did it effortlessly already.

without him ever having been in a situation, it seems ridiculous to try and claim so definitively that he'd be ko'd or wouldn't be able to react in time to avoid a ko.

i ackowledge the irony--the odin side seems to be claiming quite definitively that ODIN would win. in my case is stems from a couple reasons, the chief ones being neither flash nor zoom have ever done anything remotely close to what is being ascribed to them in this thread, and the second, we've seen odinforce thor enhance his speed to match a superspeed threat already. we've also seen the damage odin can and has withstood. in the case of zoom? well, he's never even thrown an official imp, and his victories over even herald level characters are....?

Originally posted by roughrider
Say, what happens when a foe just levitates in the air against a non-flyer like Zoom?
Does Zoom just keep running around underneath yelling out: "FigggghhttMeeeeee..."?

people are saying he wouldn't have time to levitate as he would already be ko'd before he can even THINK about activating a single power....

Originally posted by leonidas
the other thing to remember as well--we've never even SEEN odin combat anyone like zoom or flash. so how the battle would go is obviously purely speculative. the one time thor (with the odin force) fought a speedster, (can't for the life of me recall his f'n name.....) thor matched him just fine. up UNTIL that time, no one had EVER seen the odinpower tackle a speedster AT ALL. with the odin force, thor was EASILY matching that god. is it zoom? or flash? no. but how many would have said he could battle h2h against a god of speed before the fight happened? odin uses new powers in situations all the time--as a skyfather, it's one of the benefits. could be match flash/zoom in speed? no, probably not. could be amp his own reaction times to heavily reduce the advantage they have? i'd say yes, that is certainly reasonable, since thor did it effortlessly already.

without him ever having been in a situation, it seems ridiculous to try and claim so definitively that he'd be ko'd or wouldn't be able to react in time to avoid a ko.

i ackowledge the irony--the odin side seems to be claiming quite definitively that ODIN would win. in my case is stems from a couple reasons, the chief ones being neither flash nor zoom have ever done anything remotely close to what is being ascribed to them in this thread, and the second, we've seen odinforce thor enhance his speed to match a superspeed threat already. we've also seen the damage odin can and has withstood. in the case of zoom? well, he's never even thrown an official imp, and his victories over even herald level characters are....? I agree that you can't just assign Odin an auto win.

Other things I would say should be included is that all Asgardians seemingly get their power from in part thanks to the Odinforce and there is an Asgardian Speedster.

Obviously not in the same vein as flash or Zoom but something that shows the Odinforce is capable of giving high levels of superspeed.

Also Odin's perceptions are quite different then even a high heralds in what he can see and perceive.

I will admit its not the most definitive but its not in the same category as saying he is a Skyfather he wins.

Didn't the mods already rule that Flash and Zoom's appearances don't count on forum, and that the speedsters are skyfather level?

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Never said Flash/Zoom weren't absurdly powerful. I am saying and calling BULLSHIT on either of them hitting with the force of galaxies. The rest of this post is basically a bunch of rehashed nonsense that's already been debated on.

Really there are only two questions that have yet to be answered:

How many punches can Zoom throw before Odin can react?

And how does Zoom fare against Celestials and beings such as Eternity?

And btw, CIS off =/= make shit up based on how we think powersets should work. Not making things up just stating whats already been stated and putting them together. Speedforce IS the highest mastery over velocity a person can get and breaks all barriers on speed. Infinite Mass Punch IS Flash delivering punches at or near lightspeed and above. Put the two together is not making anything up it's just making the point that his speed becomes near limitless and because of the retarded way the IMP is explained makes it possible for him to deliver nigh unlimited planet busting attacks per second.

In a CISless situation where Flash is going for the kill like any character he WOULD start with his most powerful capabilities. The Number 1 Flash ability in terms of potency is the speed force barrier break. Number 2 probably I'd say speed steal but I don't know how well it would work on Odin so I'll ignore it. 3 would be to pile on as many IMP as he can and when you break the absolute limit of speed on the universe that number can get very very high.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Show Zoom performing multiple imps.


Isn't that what he did against Wonder Woman, when he kept knocking her between continents?

I don't understand how Zoom can land a punch against a brick without shattering his hand, since he's not protected by the speed force and for all intents and purposes is moving as fast as a human, but with the world slowed down around him.

Originally posted by cdtm
Isn't that what he did against Wonder Woman, when he kept knocking her between continents?

I don't understand how Zoom can land a punch against a brick without shattering his hand, since he's not protected by the speed force and for all intents and purposes is moving as fast as a human, but with the world slowed down around him. I don't think so.

Originally posted by Silent Master
So, how many punchs can Zoom throw before Odin can react? More than than all the atoms in the visible universe.

But 1 will suffice.

Lol

Hey Uriel... do ureself a favor... post ure so called feats because I caught u and ure buddy saying half truths in the past... Na mean bro??? Ure always flingin "he did this, he did that, he did this" without ever showing anyting...

Zoom is so fast that his powers can't even be retconned -- before the writer could even change anything he could launch a googolplexian infinite mass punches in every thread on the internet.

Damn straight.

Zoom wins because Odin has no counter to looking like a statue to Zoom and getting his face wrecked over and over.

This shit is ridiculous.

Originally posted by SasuOna
Zoom wins because Odin has no counter to looking like a statue to Zoom and getting his face wrecked over and over.

How many punches can Zoom land before Odin reacts?

Originally posted by Silent Master
How many punches can Zoom land before Odin reacts?

1

which is enough

Originally posted by h1a8
1

which is enough Based on one punch defeating who on Odin's level ?

Originally posted by h1a8
1

which is enough

What Odin level charcater has Zoom beat with 1 punch?

Originally posted by Silent Master
What Odin level charcater has Zoom beat with 1 punch? What tank has Galactus lifted to prove that he can lift a tank?

Originally posted by h1a8
What tank has Galactus lifted to prove that he can lift a tank? German Leopard 2, your turn.

Originally posted by h1a8
What tank has Galactus lifted to prove that he can lift a tank? He's thrown an entire train...
And that isn't comparable at all.

Also, h1 doesn't even understand how a neutron star works, let alone how much force moving at light speed does.

Originally posted by leonidas


so basically what you are saying is that anyone who can APPROACH c can hit with the force of a 'thousand galaxies'.

come on, h1, even you don't--CAN'T--actually believe that. i DO like the math though.....

CLEARLY the imp does NOT follow the law, because when they REACHED c their mass would ALSO be infinite and they wouldn't be able to move. and it's not just speedforce users--superman has also delivered a similar blow.

so again, we are back to you CHOOSING which part of the law you believe is true. you can't part of it and discard the rest because it doesn't follow. the entire imp is ridiculous and is nonsensical and does NOT follow the rule, but rather flash's UNDERSTANDING (since we were in HIS head when he brought it up) of said rule. and i wonder just how much quantum physics he actually studied.....?

There is no choosing involved. We are simply taking what the writer's gives us. If they say that one's mass increases as they approach c then that is what it is. No need to choose.

Originally posted by h1a8
What tank has Galactus lifted to prove that he can lift a tank?

We've seen him lift things heavier than a tank, therefore we know he can lift a tank....now post who above Odin level Zoom has beat with 1 hit.

Originally posted by h1a8
What tank has Galactus lifted to prove that he can lift a tank? Do you understand these characters ?

Can Odin survive getting punched nonstop from Supes for a day? Nope
Can Zoom replicate that type of feat based on his powerset instantly? Yes
Can Odin get an attack off before he is killed? No


Is there some imaginary number of physical attacks that you think Odin can endure physically before hes killed? Any number you give that isn't an obvious outlier or BS I guarantee Zoom will surpass anyway.

Originally posted by SasuOna
Can Odin survive getting punched nonstop from Supes for a day? Nope
Can Zoom replicate that type of feat based on his powerset instantly? Yes
Can Odin get an attack off before he is killed? No


Is there some imaginary number of physical attacks that you think Odin can endure physically before hes killed? Any number you give that isn't an obvious outlier or BS I guarantee Zoom will surpass anyway. Who has Zoom beaten Odin's level before they could react ?

Originally posted by quanchi112
Who has Zoom beaten Odin's level before they could react ? He got out of Hal's construct once if that counts...
I believe he even threw some punches to a non shielded Hal that didn't really hurt him too...

Impressive to say the least

Originally posted by SasuOna
Can Odin survive getting punched nonstop from Supes for a day? Nope
Can Zoom replicate that type of feat based on his powerset instantly? Yes
Can Odin get an attack off before he is killed? No


Is there some imaginary number of physical attacks that you think Odin can endure physically before hes killed? Any number you give that isn't an obvious outlier or BS I guarantee Zoom will surpass anyway.

Right, so how many punches can Zoom land before Odin reacts?

Originally posted by Sr J-Bieb
He got out of Hal's construct once if that counts...
I believe he even threw some punches to a non shielded Hal that didn't really hurt him too...

Impressive to say the least I'm convinced. If he can hurt a gl like Hal Odin better bfr himself.

Originally posted by quanchi112
I'm convinced. If he can hurt a gl like Hal Odin better bfr himself. Here's him landing over a million punches:
http://imageshack.us/f/185/zoompunch1qv3.jpg/

How can Odin stand against that when Power Girl... well, nevermind what an alternate Power Girl did... look at all dem punches!

Anyway, the Mods have already ruled that in this forum speedsters aren't limited to how they've been portrayed in comics.

Originally posted by Sr J-Bieb
Here's him landing over a million punches:
http://imageshack.us/f/185/zoompunch1qv3.jpg/

How can Odin stand against that when Power Girl... well, nevermind what an alternate Power Girl did... look at all dem punches!

Obviously alternate reality PGs > Odin.

because its not like Zoom's staple is not killing heroes even though he can.
I'm glad CIS is off so bad attempts at downplaying can get laughed at accordingly

Originally posted by SasuOna
because its not like Zoom's staple is not killing heroes even though he can.
I'm glad CIS is off so bad attempts at downplaying can get laughed at accordingly

So, how many punches can Zoom land before Odin reacts?

Originally posted by Silent Master
So, how many punches can Zoom land before Odin reacts?
You don't seem to understand
How would he react if hes already dead? I think there has been more then enough evidence in previous threads to show that the Flash and Zoom indeed operate at a level that is way beyond something Odin can react to.

So far the only arguments to counter this have been "Odin is a skyfather blah blah blah"

Originally posted by SasuOna
You don't seem to understand
How would he react if hes already dead? I think there has been more then enough evidence in previous threads to show that the Flash and Zoom indeed operate at a level that is way beyond something Odin can react to.

So far the only arguments to counter this have been "Odin is a skyfather blah blah blah"

Right, so how many punches can Zoom land before Odin reacts/dies?

Originally posted by SasuOna
because its not like Zoom's staple is not killing heroes even though he can.
I'm glad CIS is off so bad attempts at downplaying can get laughed at accordingly The funny thing is that's the fastest Zoom has ever thrown punches...
And he was just trying to break her grip...

Originally posted by Silent Master
Right, so how many punches can Zoom land before Odin reacts/dies? Don't know. how many punches can you land on an opponent while time is stopped for them?

Originally posted by Uriel005
Don't know. how many punches can you land on an opponent while time is stopped for them?

Well, until someone can give me a number.

Odin wins.

Originally posted by Silent Master
Well, until someone can give me a number.

Odin wins. Over five billion!

Originally posted by kgkg
Over five billion!

Now we are getting somewhere, so what level of force is behind each of those punches?

Originally posted by Silent Master
Now we are getting somewhere, so what level of force is behind each of those punches? Thousands of galaxies

Originally posted by Sr J-Bieb
Thousands of galaxies

If only the Zoom side would come out and say this. For some reason they seem reluctant to take an actual stance on the subject.

Originally posted by Silent Master
Now we are getting somewhere, so what level of force is behind each of those punches? If he lands one than it's at Superman level and divide the power scale by 50% for each subsequent punches.

So lets see say Superman 1 punch is 100. Than Zoom's first punch scales at 100 + Second at 50 + Third at 25 + 4th at 12.5 + 5th at 6.5 + 6th at 3.125...... 15th at 0.0061..........You get the picture.

Originally posted by Uriel005
Actually Flash in comics vs a forum flash is very very one sided. Flash hardly ever breaks the speedforce barrier which puts him above constraints such as time which would make zoom's timestop useless. In comic he's done it without assistance but whenever Zoom is around he seems to struggle with FTL movement.

as I said before beating flash does not put you on par with odin.

Originally posted by Uriel005
Actually Flash in comics vs a forum flash is very very one sided. Flash hardly ever breaks the speedforce barrier which puts him above constraints such as time which would make zoom's timestop useless. In comic he's done it without assistance but whenever Zoom is around he seems to struggle with FTL movement. So... all Zoom's done is beat a written down Flash is what you're saying?

Originally posted by zeel
as I said before beating flash does not put you on par with odin.

Very true.....it means you can kill Odin in an instant. On par is just ridiculous

Zoom vs the Celestial host would be a much fairer match. Even then a few thousands of galaxy haymakers would be all it took to send them crying back to the fulcrum.

You say being on par with Odin like that covers all aspects of each character besides destructive capacity which I'm sure a lot of characters aren't on par with Odin but can still stomp him easily. Its fallacious and the ones saying it are in essence killing their own arguments.

Odin's physical durability allows him to barely tank a punch from Thanos

So Zoom hitting Odin with his supes level strikes which aren't even imps while Odin is effectively a statue means that he'll more then likely tank a couple of the first few punches but then die by the time hes even beginning to be aware of whats happening.

Originally posted by SasuOna

Odin's physical durability allows him to barely tank a punch from Thanos


When did he barely tank a punch from Thanos? In their fight, none of Thanos's attacks were having any effect.

Originally posted by SasuOna
You say being on par with Odin like that covers all aspects of each character besides destructive capacity which I'm sure a lot of characters aren't on par with Odin but can still stomp him easily. Its fallacious and the ones saying it are in essence killing their own arguments.

Odin's physical durability allows him to barely tank a punch from Thanos

So Zoom hitting Odin with his supes level strikes which aren't even imps while Odin is effectively a statue means that he'll more then likely tank a couple of the first few punches but then die by the time hes even beginning to be aware of whats happening.

Zoom's punching power can't even knock out an alt PG with a blitz.

So Zoom hitting Odin with his can't ko PG strikes isn't likely going to make Odin blink.

Originally posted by Sr J-Bieb
So... all Zoom's done is beat a written down Flash is what you're saying? no...

Originally posted by h1a8
There is no choosing involved. We are simply taking what the writer's gives us. If they say that one's mass increases as they approach c then that is what it is. No need to choose.

in one breath you're saying it is based off special relativity. in the next you are saying go by what the character says. great, except....

what the character says DOES NOT EQUAL special relativity. you can't have what he says AND what the theory implies because they are not the SAME.

arguing anything else is the height of nonsense. shall we list the characters in dc who can achieve 90% c? so ALL of them can achieve an imp with force enough to destroy GALAXIES.

is that truly your stance?

here is a more simplified version--flash can run fast. when he runs fast he can hit pretty damn hard. superman hard? i'd doubt it, frankly, and if we compared punching feats i'm pretty sure it would bear itself out. infinitely hard??? that is utterly and in every way laughable.

i love getting criticized btw, for the skyfather argument (in my own case i tried to explain WHY imo a skyfather should win--CAN/HAS amped to match a speedster effortlessly, time-based powers, etc....) and yet the 'zoom never tries to really hurt heroes' argument is just fine, as is the 'just because he never has hit a quintillion times in a second with near infinite force doesn't mean he can't' argument. an even huger LULZ at even trying to pretend the odin side is extrapolating and has shown zero proof when the zoom/flash side can't even show zoom has ever thrown ONE IMP in his whole history!!

i think the fact that it has never been brought up again by writers or dc may be rather telling....

Originally posted by Uriel005
no... You just downplayed Zoom beating Flash...

Originally posted by zeel
beating flash does not put you on par with odin . Originally posted by Uriel005
Actually Flash in comics vs a forum flash is very very one sided. Flash hardly ever breaks the speedforce barrier which puts him above constraints such as time which would make zoom's timestop useless. In comic he's done it without assistance but whenever Zoom is around he seems to struggle with FTL movement.

dot Dot DOT

Originally posted by Sr J-Bieb
Here's him landing over a million punches:
http://imageshack.us/f/185/zoompunch1qv3.jpg/

How can Odin stand against that when Power Girl... well, nevermind what an alternate Power Girl did... look at all dem punches! The best part is she is talking and fighting back and even a million punches didn't even really hurt her yet zoom fans claim he beats Odin before he can react. The argument has no merit whatsoever.