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This is in Britain.


http://english.alarabiya.net/articles/2011/06/19/153982.html

Link now posted. As a gay muslim I agree.

Well, given both the Bible and Quran forbid homosexuality...what's the problem?

Originally posted by The Dark Cloud
Well, given both the Bible and Quran forbid homosexuality...what's the problem?

Wat?


Originally posted by batdude123
http://i55.tinypic.com/15yudf8.jpg

A lot of "Account Restricted" folk on this thread.

Notice how intollerant people are nearly always religous?
Brain washed religous fantasy believing fools that is.

From my experience, most intolerant people tend to be anti-religious.

Originally posted by RE: Blaxican
From my experience, most intolerant people tend to be anti-religious.

you need to get out more

Originally posted by Robtard
you need to get out more

http://i55.tinypic.com/15yudf8.jpg

Originally posted by Bicnarok
A lot of "Account Restricted" folk on this thread.

Notice how intollerant people are nearly always religous?
Brain washed religous fantasy believing fools that is.

Not everyone.

Originally posted by RE: Blaxican
From my experience, most intolerant people tend to be anti-religious.

You most live in a very unrepresentative cross section of the world. Or, you know, be ignorant yourself...

I live in San Francisco. Have you ever visited San Francisco?

Originally posted by RE: Blaxican
I live in San Francisco. Have you ever visited San Francisco?

No. Have you visited Bamberg?

Really though, what do you define as "anti-religious" (since that may already imply intolerance and be similar to saying "the most intolerant people I know are intolerant", or be such a small subset of people it would be ridiculous to claim that) and how do these people behave, what are they intolerant of, in your experience?

Anti-Religious people being zealous and borderline physically aggressive in an argument about God are far more common than religious ones, in my personal experience.
I've met 3 in the last 2 months alone.

I am yet to meet an atheist who isn't aggressive about not believing in God or trying to convince me how my belief in reincarnation is utter bullshit. I've met Christians, Jews, Muslims, Buddhists, Janis, Hindus and what not who are just cool with whatever and do not make an issue out of others beliefs and in many cases avoid talking about that subject altogether. This is personal for many people, and majority I've met just prefer not to talk about it in group.

I met a guy who got pissed off when we spoke about astrology - he was so anti-religious and anti-anything-that-isn't-science that he was yelling, not letting others speak, interrupting and even being physically intimidating.
Another one I met was at the party who decided to get into an argument with the host about why believing in any kind of spiritual things is utter bullshit.

If this is what Blaxican meant, then I am inclined to agree.

Well sounds like you've met douches so far Lil.
Some people don't deal with the level of incredulity that is only natural in the face of certain statements too well and cannot contain the understandable rage that can build up at the many tacet statements built in within them.

Most athiest anger is built up at a lifetime of indoctrination endured at the hands of the organised groups of people who 'believe' and want you to beileve that non-believers, including any that are your lost friends and family all rot in hell.
Laughing at these people and pointing out why such a vastly unproven statement is laughable is the better option.
Also: when people drink or do other substances, angry reactions come more easily. Such emotive discussion should be held over a nice cup of Tetleys, IMO.... way more progressive a climate for such endevours.

I've never seen "anti religious types" cut off peoples heads on the internet.

Originally posted by Bardock42
No. Have you visited Bamberg?

Really though, what do you define as "anti-religious" (since that may already imply intolerance and be similar to saying "the most intolerant people I know are intolerant", or be such a small subset of people it would be ridiculous to claim that) and how do these people behave, what are they intolerant of, in your experience? Don't you think it's a little, ignorant, of you, to suggest that I don't know what I'm talking about, when you obviously lack so much information regarding the context of my statement, hence the asking of all these questions?

Originally posted by lil bitchiness
Anti-Religious people being zealous and borderline physically aggressive in an argument about God are far more common than religious ones, in my personal experience.
I've met 3 in the last 2 months alone.

I am yet to meet an atheist who isn't aggressive about not believing in God or trying to convince me how my belief in reincarnation is utter bullshit. I've met Christians, Jews, Muslims, Buddhists, Janis, Hindus and what not who are just cool with whatever and do not make an issue out of others beliefs and in many cases avoid talking about that subject altogether. This is personal for many people, and majority I've met just prefer not to talk about it in group.

I met a guy who got pissed off when we spoke about astrology - he was so anti-religious and anti-anything-that-isn't-science that he was yelling, not letting others speak, interrupting and even being physically intimidating.
Another one I met was at the party who decided to get into an argument with the host about why believing in any kind of spiritual things is utter bullshit.

If this is what Blaxican meant, then I am inclined to agree.

I doubt they were being aggressive, you're just ignorant.

Ya that's what I was referring to.

Getting back on topic, yes Christians are extremely intolerant when it comes to homosexuality though I think the reason isn't the act itself it's more the recent glorification of it. Homosexuality is part of the world of human sex acts, not much different in its level of taboo than bdsm. The difference is that a bdsm parade would likely be forbidden in most places, regardless of religious affiliation. A persons sexual life has previously been a private matter, usually going no further than "locker room" talk. Today advocates for homosexuality keep(deviant:meaning deviating from the normal) sexual acts in our face at all times on television news and on the internet news. Would advocates for bdsm pride be allowed to have a parade that celebrates their lifestyle of whips and nip clips? Would a heterosexual couple adopt easily if they show up to the interview with the husband on a spike-collared leash? I agree that discriminating against a person based on their preferences is wrong but sexual preferences are strong and various, so most of the people with odd ones know that they probably shouldn't let everyone know that they are turned on by necrophilia or whatever, and expect to be treated like they are not odd to others.

Christian parents are probably the most intolerant people, because they feel as though they have failed at a very important task. They're likely just as intolerant against their kids being strippers though, maybe even moreso.

Originally posted by RE: Blaxican
Don't you think it's a little, ignorant, of you, to suggest that I don't know what I'm talking about, when you obviously lack so much information regarding the context of my statement, hence the asking of all these questions?


Well, I initially read anti-religious as non-religious, so, yeah, my bad.

Going to clarify your vague statement now? Do you, like lil bitchiness apparently does, believe that anti-religious is almost the same as non-religious? And therefore that non-religious people are more intolerant than religious people? And do you include a difference between intensity and prevalence of intolerance?

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
Well sounds like you've met douches so far Lil.
Some people don't deal with the level of incredulity that is only natural in the face of certain statements too well and cannot contain the understandable rage that can build up at the many tacet statements built in within them.

Most athiest anger is built up at a lifetime of indoctrination endured at the hands of the organised groups of people who 'believe' and want you to beileve that non-believers, including any that are your lost friends and family all rot in hell.
Laughing at these people and pointing out why such a vastly unproven statement is laughable is the better option.
Also: when people drink or do other substances, angry reactions come more easily. Such emotive discussion should be held over a nice cup of Tetleys, IMO.... way more progressive a climate for such endevours.

I have no doubt they were douches. Nothing to do with atheism, but everything to do with douchebaggery (my fave word EVER!!).

I also find it's the same with religious people - the douchery ones are going to be douchy, regardless. The really cool ones, really awesome ones are the ones that don't want to talk about their religion, don't want to argue or convince.
Atheists like that are everywhere too, I am sure. I just hope that people like that release that their offensive ''I am right and you are wrong'' attitude is exactly the same as their fellow religious douches'.


Originally posted by The Dark Cloud
I've never seen "anti religious types" cut off peoples heads on the internet.

This reminds me. I haven't seen anyone cut off anyone's head on the internet in China, but I did see videos ''stepping on kittens with heels'' that made me vomit.
Violent crime here is very low (and it's not Chinese propaganda, it actually really is) so I doubt we'll see any any time soon. Thank goodness and let us hope it stays that way.

Once I return to the West, one thing I'll definitely miss is walking around by myself at 3am without fear of being raped or killed.

Their super secular government definitely has many benefits...and also draw backs, but that has little to do with atheism and everything to do with corruption.

Originally posted by lil bitchiness
Anti-Religious people being zealous and borderline physically aggressive in an argument about God are far more common than religious ones, in my personal experience.
I've met 3 in the last 2 months alone.

I am yet to meet an atheist who isn't aggressive about not believing in God or trying to convince me how my belief in reincarnation is utter bullshit. I've met Christians, Jews, Muslims, Buddhists, Janis, Hindus and what not who are just cool with whatever and do not make an issue out of others beliefs and in many cases avoid talking about that subject altogether. This is personal for many people, and majority I've met just prefer not to talk about it in group.


Personal experience only means as much as it does to whom it personally applies to. I mean, both atheists and theists have their belligerent "advocates." In my experience? I've met both. I recall, when I was finishing my theology research, visiting a christian church twice a week for a few months and some of the individuals that attended that church were not people you could hold a discussion with without them trying to tear you in half.

I've also met atheists who are as equally "pushy" about their views as well. Both religious and non-religious individuals alike have their cantankerous members.

Originally posted by lil bitchiness
I am yet to meet an atheist who isn't aggressive about not believing in God or trying to convince me how my belief in reincarnation is utter bullshit.

ah, the "fake-breasts" fallacy

Christians usually assume I am a Christian unless they directly ask me my beliefs. I do not know why, but I can assure you it is not because they have ever caught me reading a Bible, saying a prayer, or going to church. If you do not think you have met a respectful atheist, you probably do not realize how many atheists you know!

I have just as many aggressive atheist/agnostic friends as I do aggressive religious friends.

I take that back: I have more aggressive agnostic/atheist friends than I do religious friends. I get more flack for being a Mormon, form atheists/agnostics than I do from other Christian, Muslim, and Buddhists.

One of my atheist friends recently told me on facebook, "It saddens me. I lost all of my confidence in your mental abilities today." because I said I could not give up my belief in a higher power.

Even when arguing about how crazy or wrong Mormons are, with other Christians, they still never resort to petty name calling like that.

I can relate: I think people that pray about what shirt to put on, how long to microwave their leftovers, etc...are just idiots (I apologize for the harsh language). Imagine how much more irritating that is to an atheist.

I used to argue with christians many a year ago.

Now I realise atheists who argue or criticise religious folk on a regular basis are nothing special, or that much better other than a higher morality and spiritual understand, I guess. How ironic.

Originally posted by lord xyz
I used to argue with christians many a year ago.

Now I realise atheists who argue or criticise religious folk on a regular basis are nothing special, or that much better other than a higher morality and spiritual understand, I guess. How ironic. Hahahahahaha! That was low....

I'm an Atheist and most of the time I'm pretty easy going when it comes to religion. There have been times where I have gone on one of those unholy rants about how silly religion can really be though. It is almost always triggered by a religious person imposing their beliefs my way though.

When it comes to intolerance it's only natural that athiests are likely to be more intolerant towards religion than those who believe in something. Any moderate religious person is going to have no problem with any other religion because they themselves believe in something. This being said religious people are far more likely to be intolerant of pretty much anything else... simply because they have a doctrine that tells them what is right and what is wrong.



As a side point though: It does really annoy me when a religious person pokes fun at something like Scientology... Scientology is ridiculous, but it is just as likely to be right as any other religion. As there is no evidence to support anything.

I don't have a problem with religion. I have a problem with people acting in ways that are just wildly irrational. People can be religions and not act like idiots (my whole family for example) but once you get into thinking like "the reason you should believe is because there is no reason to believe" which doesn't even make sense in and of it self I have a problem.

Originally posted by inimalist
ah, the "fake-breasts" fallacy

I recognize all fake breasts and so I know that all fake breasts look bad. But in reality there are many fake breasts that are well done and thus I do not notice them, thus my count of fake breasts only includes the ones that look bad. Yes?

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
I recognize all fake breasts and so I know that all fake breasts look bad. But in reality there are many fake breasts that are well done and thus I do not notice them, thus my count of fake breasts only includes the ones that look bad. Yes?

bingo!

I don't think the bad looking part is necessary, but ya, fake boobs are ugg-o!

or, the ones I can tell are fake

I'm definitely a secularist and I'm certainly anti-religion but I won't go on a ginormous rant about it or push my beliefs onto others. I'm open to discuss it but, for the most part, I have more of a problem with individuals who follows religion rather than those who believe in a God/Gods.

Originally posted by mac-11
Personal experience only means as much as it does to whom it personally applies to. I mean, both atheists and theists have their belligerent "advocates." In my experience? I've met both. I recall, when I was finishing my theology research, visiting a christian church twice a week for a few months and some of the individuals that attended that church were not people you could hold a discussion with without them trying to tear you in half.

I've also met atheists who are as equally "pushy" about their views as well. Both religious and non-religious individuals alike have their cantankerous members.

I don't associate with religious fanatics - that's not to say I don't associate with religious people - I do, and majority of my friends believe in something, be it Jesus, Muhammed, Moses, Krishna, reincarnation, astrology, astral projection or whatever.

I've had disagreements with religious people about their views, of course, but I sense when it's time to let go of the conversation, as they do, and we don't talk about it.

Zealous atheists will continue to push and provoke everyone there to the point that even those who don't believe in astrology, for example (that was the latest drama), will defend it.
Percentage wise, I've met far more atheists who were obnoxious and rude in regards to their lack of beliefs, that they would make other atheists around them cringe to the point of them turning agnostics in one conversation.

I'm happy to say, I haven't met many religious people who are like that. I worked with a pastor at University in China who has never ever brought religion into anything - he knows we'll disagree, so he doesn't bother, and of course, neither do I.

Originally posted by inimalist
I don't think the bad looking part is necessary, but ya, fake boobs are ugg-o!


Tangent: I held this belief for ages until someone introduced me to Hayden Cross.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Tangent: I held this belief for ages until someone introduced me to Hayden Cross.

:P

I'm sure some look good, but even just the concept is really unappealing to me

I don't even like girls who wear make-up in a noticeable way

Originally posted by inimalist
:P

I'm sure some look good, but even just the concept is really unappealing to me

I agree and I'm the same way. For the longest time...I thought there wasn't a single "job" that looked better than some smaller naturals.

Originally posted by inimalist
I don't even like girls who wear make-up in a noticeable way

I agree, as well. Some go too far. Some would look better with a bit less. But I don't mind if it's noticeable. Just not overdone.


What was this thread about, again?

Originally posted by lil bitchiness
I don't associate with religious fanatics - that's not to say I don't associate with religious people - I do, and majority of my friends believe in something, be it Jesus, Muhammed, Moses, Krishna, reincarnation, astrology, astral projection or whatever.

I've had disagreements with religious people about their views, of course, but I sense when it's time to let go of the conversation, as they do, and we don't talk about it.

Zealous atheists will continue to push and provoke everyone there to the point that even those who don't believe in astrology, for example (that was the latest drama), will defend it.
Percentage wise, I've met far more atheists who were obnoxious and rude in regards to their lack of beliefs, that they would make other atheists around them cringe to the point of them turning agnostics in one conversation.

I'm happy to say, I haven't met many religious people who are like that. I worked with a pastor at University in China who has never ever brought religion into anything - he knows we'll disagree, so he doesn't bother, and of course, neither do I. You know, it kinda looks like you only meet atheist fanatics because you don't associate with religious fanatics.....?

Originally posted by lil bitchiness
Anti-Religious people being zealous and borderline physically aggressive in an argument about God are far more common than religious ones, in my personal experience.
I've met 3 in the last 2 months alone.

I am yet to meet an atheist who isn't aggressive about not believing in God or trying to convince me how my belief in reincarnation is utter bullshit. I've met Christians, Jews, Muslims, Buddhists, Janis, Hindus and what not who are just cool with whatever and do not make an issue out of others beliefs and in many cases avoid talking about that subject altogether. This is personal for many people, and majority I've met just prefer not to talk about it in group.

I met a guy who got pissed off when we spoke about astrology - he was so anti-religious and anti-anything-that-isn't-science that he was yelling, not letting others speak, interrupting and even being physically intimidating.
Another one I met was at the party who decided to get into an argument with the host about why believing in any kind of spiritual things is utter bullshit.

If this is what Blaxican meant, then I am inclined to agree.


or perhaps the only ones you noticed were the ones who ended up arguing with you. infact, theres probably way more people that you never talked theology with that are atheists, but you never thought of them as such because most people have to be TOLD that your an atheist, otherwise they assume that your theist.

Originally posted by lil bitchiness
I don't associate with religious fanatics - that's not to say I don't associate with religious people - I do, and majority of my friends believe in something, be it Jesus, Muhammed, Moses, Krishna, reincarnation, astrology, astral projection or whatever.

I've had disagreements with religious people about their views, of course, but I sense when it's time to let go of the conversation, as they do, and we don't talk about it.

Zealous atheists will continue to push and provoke everyone there to the point that even those who don't believe in astrology, for example (that was the latest drama), will defend it.
Percentage wise, I've met far more atheists who were obnoxious and rude in regards to their lack of beliefs, that they would make other atheists around them cringe to the point of them turning agnostics in one conversation.

I'm happy to say, I haven't met many religious people who are like that. I worked with a pastor at University in China who has never ever brought religion into anything - he knows we'll disagree, so he doesn't bother, and of course, neither do I.

you gotta admit, beleiving in astrology is pretty nuts (even if it isnt sinister).

there is something inherently wrong with people who challenge other people's beleifs. infact thats how all progress is made. ofcourse with that, it also has to be admitted that theres many situation where it is offensive or wrong in certain ways, while simultaneously being necessary and right in other ways. think about the black panthers or counter racism or nelson mandellah etc.

I have to admit it's quite annoying when 3 of those are in your face. Kinda hard to aim when your screen is full of blinking red dots. And in a dark map like that, you're a pretty easy target for snipers when your head is covered with those

muslims wanna pretend they dont exist(plus theyr in a minority so you cant really start an anti progressive civil war). christians, dont have that luxury anymore. ofcourse, im talking about america here.

Originally posted by inimalist
bingo!

I don't think the bad looking part is necessary, but ya, fake boobs are ugg-o!

or, the ones I can tell are fake

Nine times out of ten they're obvious though. Natural breasts just aren't perfectly spherical.

I mean, we put a man on the moon, but we can't make realistic fake boobs...

Originally posted by Quiero Mota
Nine times out of ten they're obvious though. Natural breasts just aren't perfectly spherical.

That's exactly the fallacy he's talking about. Unless you really examine every woman you meet you have no idea if you're looking at natural breasts or well done fake ones, otherwise you're only seeing the ones that are poorly done.

Originally posted by lil bitchiness
I don't associate with religious fanatics - that's not to say I don't associate with religious people - I do, and majority of my friends believe in something, be it Jesus, Muhammed, Moses, Krishna, reincarnation, astrology, astral projection or whatever.

I've had disagreements with religious people about their views, of course, but I sense when it's time to let go of the conversation, as they do, and we don't talk about it.

Zealous atheists will continue to push and provoke everyone there to the point that even those who don't believe in astrology, for example (that was the latest drama), will defend it.
Percentage wise, I've met far more atheists who were obnoxious and rude in regards to their lack of beliefs, that they would make other atheists around them cringe to the point of them turning agnostics in one conversation.

I'm happy to say, I haven't met many religious people who are like that. I worked with a pastor at University in China who has never ever brought religion into anything - he knows we'll disagree, so he doesn't bother, and of course, neither do I.

I once saw a video on youtube from an atheist that was basically him taking notice of the same thing and criticizing his fellow atheists for it. I thought that was pretty cool of him. At any rate, this doesn't seem to be something that is just happening to one or two people. For whatever reason, there seems to be a higher number of atheists that act more arrogant/aggressive.

Originally posted by TacDavey
I once saw a video on youtube from an atheist that was basically him taking notice of the same thing and criticizing his fellow atheists for it. I thought that was pretty cool of him. At any rate, this doesn't seem to be something that is just happening to one or two people. For whatever reason, there seems to be a higher number of atheists that act more arrogant/aggressive.

I don't think that's necessarily a fact at all. We all have different experiences, and just cause in one of our lives one side has been more prevalently aggressive or arrogant does not mean that it is so across the board.

Originally posted by TacDavey
I once saw a video on youtube from an atheist that was basically him taking notice of the same thing and criticizing his fellow atheists for it. I thought that was pretty cool of him. At any rate, this doesn't seem to be something that is just happening to one or two people. For whatever reason, there seems to be a higher number of atheists that act more arrogant/aggressive.

Originally posted by inimalist
ah, the "fake-breasts" fallacy

I don't think it's necessarily a fact either. I'm not trying to claim that atheists, absolutely, act more arrogant/aggressive. It's just something I have noticed in my own personal experiences and I am apparently not the only person who has.

As for the fake breast fallacy. If I understand the fallacy correctly, you are saying that there are likely a bunch of atheists that I don't know are atheists that are cool. Which I admitted in my post. I'm talking only of the atheists I have debated/ talked to/ seen debate vs the religious ones I have.

The problem though is that you are a Christian. So you will mainly debate or be approached opposingly by atheists. While I, as an atheist, will likely have the experience more with Christians.

Originally posted by TacDavey
I don't think it's necessarily a fact either. I'm not trying to claim that atheists, absolutely, act more arrogant/aggressive. It's just something I have noticed in my own personal experiences and I am apparently not the only person who has.

As for the fake breast fallacy. If I understand the fallacy correctly, you are saying that there are likely a bunch of atheists that I don't know are atheists that are cool. Which I admitted in my post. I'm talking only of the atheists I have debated/ talked to/ seen debate vs the religious ones I have.

well, like, thats the exact point

like bardock said, as atheists, we have had far more times where christians have seemed more aggressive

I imagine you have never had old ladies screaming at you on the street about how you will go to hell simply because you refused the pamphlets they were trying to hand out? similarly, aggressive atheists rarely try to shove their ideology down my throat

Originally posted by Bardock42
The problem though is that you are a Christian. So you will mainly debate or be approached opposingly by atheists. While I, as an atheist, will likely have the experience more with Christians.

That's a valid point. But I don't just debate atheists. I observe debates as well.

Originally posted by inimalist
well, like, thats the exact point

like bardock said, as atheists, we have had far more times where christians have seemed more aggressive

I imagine you have never had old ladies screaming at you on the street about how you will go to hell simply because you refused the pamphlets they were trying to hand out? similarly, aggressive atheists rarely try to shove their ideology down my throat

On the contrary, I have seen my fair share of irrational theistic people. I've even debated some of them myself. I'm fully aware that they are out there, but I've noticed that there seem to be a higher number of aggressive atheists not only in my debates, but in debates I've observed. Even a fellow atheist himself was criticizing them for it.

Again, I'm not making the claim that being an atheist makes you aggressive or arrogant. In my personal experience I had noticed that this tends to be the case and was surprised to find that others had had similar experiences.

But in this thread you have heard even more accounts of arrogant christians... why do you pay attention to the "similar experiences", but the dissimilar ones you simply skip over?

Perhaps some atheists come off as "arrogant" particularly American ones, because we're pissed. The majority of the population regards us negatively, we are apparently all communist bastards that sacrifice babies in secret rituals to satan, and rumor has it that we might not even be citizens. To top it off, almost no one would ever vote for us (there are some blue laws out there that make it illegal for atheists to run in the first place.) I believe Pete Stark is the only member of Congress that's openly an atheist and I'm amazed he got elected/still is.

So yeah, some of us are kind of miffed.

Originally posted by King Kandy
But in this thread you have heard even more accounts of arrogant christians... why do you pay attention to the "similar experiences", but the dissimilar ones you simply skip over?

I'm not skipping them over, I haven't seen as many as the alternative, that's all.

it is astounding how hypocritical people are who say that atheists are extreme, all the while glossing over the persecution faced by non relegious people or people of the wrong relegion{i.e. inter faith cinflict).

it seems to me like a case of selective attention of society where it is so much the norm for relegious types to insult or persecute non relegious people that it doesnt even make a blip in the attention of society while even one non relegious person critcising relegion is such a deviation from the norm that they are considered loud/annoying/roudy and basically deserving of ridicule and basic avoidance from society.{while all this time the myth of overzealous atheists asking for unreasonable changes to an otherwise BENIGN and liberalised "coffee" relegious system,, is propgated, hiding the still present extremism and melevolance in relegion)

actually the entire affair reminds me of secret white supremists who masquerade as civil rights activists while chanting the anthem of "racist attitudes of blacks against the whites" and the death of white centered racism{hence no justification for the MINORITY rights that the black community asks for}. etc.


essentially a false equivilance.

Originally posted by TacDavey
I'm not skipping them over, I haven't seen as many as the alternative, that's all.
What if I showed you a page with over a thousand accounts of arrogant christians? I doubt it would change your mind.

There's an awful lot of stupidity to be found in this thread, from both sides of the court.

Originally posted by King Kandy
What if I showed you a page with over a thousand accounts of arrogant christians? I doubt it would change your mind.

Well, if there was a conscious effort to build one. But then again, I'm betting that with conscious effort the same page could be made with atheists.

Like I said, I'm not saying that being an atheist makes you arrogant. I'm saying that, for whatever reason, I personally have run into more arrogant atheists than arrogant theists. And it seems I'm not alone.

What does this mean? Nothing really.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
or perhaps the only ones you noticed were the ones who ended up arguing with you. infact, theres probably way more people that you never talked theology with that are atheists, but you never thought of them as such because most people have to be TOLD that your an atheist, otherwise they assume that your theist.

How ridiculous. I do not assume anyone is a theist, especially living in East Asia - theism isn't exactly at forefront of anything, especially in China.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
you gotta admit, beleiving in astrology is pretty nuts (even if it isnt sinister).

there is something inherently wrong with people who challenge other people's beleifs. infact thats how all progress is made. ofcourse with that, it also has to be admitted that theres many situation where it is offensive or wrong in certain ways, while simultaneously being necessary and right in other ways. think about the black panthers or counter racism or nelson mandellah etc.

Believing in Astrolgy isn't any more ''nuts'' then believing that a man talked to a burning bush and became a prophet then got a God to smite down people of Egypt, or someone who died for anyone's sins and getting into heaven or eternal suffering lies between accepting this fact or not, or some epileptic Arab man receiving a holy book from angel Gabriel in some cave in the desert.

Originally posted by RE: Blaxican
There's an awful lot of stupidity to be found in this thread, from both sides of the court.

Ah, the old "I am better than both sides of the argument". Nice.

Originally posted by TacDavey
On the contrary, I have seen my fair share of irrational theistic people. I've even debated some of them myself. I'm fully aware that they are out there, but I've noticed that there seem to be a higher number of aggressive atheists not only in my debates, but in debates I've observed. Even a fellow atheist himself was criticizing them for it.

Again, I'm not making the claim that being an atheist makes you aggressive or arrogant. In my personal experience I had noticed that this tends to be the case and was surprised to find that others had had similar experiences.

but that is just rephrasing my point

I'm saying your personal experiences are shaped by the fact you are a believer in the same way mine are not being a believer

the reason it probably seems as though there are more aggressive atheists is almost certainly the same reason why it seems like christians are more aggressive to atheists. The most likely scenario is that both are equally aggressive, and we are simply expressing certain cognitive and perceptual biases that we have as individuals, rather than any characteristic of "theists" or "atheists"

Originally posted by lil bitchiness
Believing in Astrolgy isn't any more ''nuts'' then believing that a man talked to a burning bush and became a prophet then got a God to smite down people of Egypt, or someone who died for anyone's sins and getting into heaven or eternal suffering lies between accepting this fact or not, or some epileptic Arab man receiving a holy book from angel Gabriel in some cave in the desert.
Right. I think those are all 100% baloney. Which makes me curious why you accept one and not the others, if you think they have equal validity.

BTW, not interested in challenging you on astrology... I know lots of people who believe in it and I think its none of my business. I just thought this remark was an interesting thing to say.

Originally posted by lil bitchiness
How ridiculous. I do not assume anyone is a theist, especially living in East Asia - theism isn't exactly at forefront of anything, especially in China.



Believing in Astrolgy isn't any more ''nuts'' then believing that a man talked to a burning bush and became a prophet then got a God to smite down people of Egypt, or someone who died for anyone's sins and getting into heaven or eternal suffering lies between accepting this fact or not, or some epileptic Arab man receiving a holy book from angel Gabriel in some cave in the desert.

but would you call them atheists?

agreed. theyr all equally nuts. no wait, abrahamic relegions are nuts and dangerous, astrology beleivers are only nuts. {p.s. i dont mean to say that they are as a whole, crazy. its just in their beleif that astrology is true}

basically, people who say that atheists in general{or even in the majority} are aggressive/irrational/extreme are, in the simplest language,LIARS! .



NOTHING more to it.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
basically, people who say that atheists in general{or even in the majority} are aggressive/irrational/extreme are, in the simplest language,LIARS! .



NOTHING more to it.

Are you an atheist? Cause that huge, cap lock bold text seems kinda.... aggressive to me.

He's in the minority and proud of it.

Everyone's in the minority these days. Most of them are proud of it. It's funny how that works.

Originally posted by Bardock42
Ah, the old "I am better than both sides of the argument". Nice. I didn't say none of it was coming from me.

Originally posted by Quark_666
Everyone's in the minority these days. Most of them are proud of it. It's funny how that works.

except for christians in most parts of america{or majority christian places}, or muslims in majority muslims. {i mean theyr NOT a minority}

plus not all minorities are proud to be who they are, some hate it. some are neutral about it.(e.g. some gays hate themselvef for being gay, others are proud, still others just take it as a fact of life that is not odd enough to be proud or ashamed of)

and ofcourse for the most part, why would you become a minority and suffer everything that being a minority often comes with without either having pride in it or necessity?

Originally posted by leonheartmm


and ofcourse for the most part, why would you become a minority and suffer everything that being a minority often comes with without either having pride in it or necessity? I know the first time I became black it was pretty hard.

But now that Obama is president it's all gravy.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
except for christians in most parts of america{or majority christian places}, or muslims in majority muslims. {i mean theyr NOT a minority}

plus not all minorities are proud to be who they are, some hate it. some are neutral about it.(e.g. some gays hate themselvef for being gay, others are proud, still others just take it as a fact of life that is not odd enough to be proud or ashamed of)

and ofcourse for the most part, why would you become a minority and suffer everything that being a minority often comes with without either having pride in it or necessity? Yes, but I've watched entire groups of Christians ignore their national majority of 80% as they rise above the overwhelming worldly temptations of the servants of Satan. I've also seen right-wing political circles convince each other that the time is not far from now that the liberals will ruin the nation - whether they liberals are the majority or not. Conservatives are often so proud to be politically incorrect that they can dismiss the most direct and obvious truths as "politically correct." The phrase "politically correct" can dismiss gay rights, pro-choice, and protection of the environment in Republican circles, which suggests that they've convinced themselves they're a minority

So you're right, but I'll stick with my satire.

Originally posted by King Kandy
Right. I think those are all 100% baloney. Which makes me curious why you accept one and not the others, if you think they have equal validity.

BTW, not interested in challenging you on astrology... I know lots of people who believe in it and I think its none of my business. I just thought this remark was an interesting thing to say.

I don't think that having a belief in any of those is 'nuts'. People believe what they found to be true for them and what they feel is helping their spiritual growth.

I did find it somewhat interesting that Astrology was classed as more ''nuts'' than mainstream religions.
I'm very keen on Chinese folk religions too - I don't swear by it, but some bits I choose to believe in.

Originally posted by lil bitchiness
I did find it somewhat interesting that Astrology was classed as more ''nuts'' than mainstream religions. I think members of mainstream religions realize that because astrology is so subjective, it is obligated to address less criticism, which they recognize as being easier to defend without necessarily being more valid. This annoys them.

I'm not going to speak in absolutes, because I can only speak from my own experience, but I will say that I personally have seen / heard far more instances of aggressive and extreme rants coming from atheists about how stupid and naive religious people are then vice versa. These are all conversations I have overheard, nothing directed at me because frankly I don't have a horse in this race, I don't care about religion, I'm not religious in any sense and I don't believe even slightly in any religious doctrine, but at the same time I am theoretically open to the idea of a "higher power," so I feel no need to argue with either side about their believes. I say believe in what ever makes life easier for you, I couldn't care less and it isn't my place to tell you otherwise. My "sample" my be skewed because I went to an extremely liberal art University, but that is my experience on the issue having spent most of my life hanging around outspoken extremely left wing douchbags.