The All Versus Forum

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Impediment
Since Raz has shown his face here recently, I feel like I should get the ball rolling and make a petition thread for an All Versus Forum. I support this idea, as do many other members. It seems to work on other numerous websites, and I feel that this could be a fun place to pit matches.

What is an All Versus Forum? It's a place where you can pit comic book characters, movie characters, video game characters, novel/book characters, television characters, and anime characters all together in a single bout, without restriction for genre specific forums.

If created, I volunteer to mod this All Versus Forum, and will gladly accept any help offered to help mod the place.

Raz, it's your call, Meister!

Everyone cite reasons why you want this place made!

Zack Fair
thumb up

Impediment
You're supposed to cite reasons why, Zack!

awermm

Nephthys
This really needs to happen. Too many sub-forums are getting bogged down, stagnating and repetitive. The Anime vesus is composed of just the Big 3 Shonen stuff, the Games versus is Link, Kain etc, the Star Wars versus is dying and the movie versus is just lame and has massive flame wars every other day.

This could really breath some life back into the forum as well as draw all the members into one place, have some really kickass debates and expand the site. I strongly urge everyone to vote for this.

Rogue Jedi
Because it is my idea.

*watches as the "no" votes come in*

Nemesis X
There should be an All Versus Forum because I get the feeling that there's hardly any more matches people can come up with in the genre specific forums.

Nephthys
Fo sho'. We need more match-ups.

Star Wars EU vs Harry Potter ftw!

marwash22
the biggest reason would be because there is a demand for it and it would also broaden our pool of characters. I personally vote yes because it would open up the possibility for more interesting threads 'cause we would be able to use tv show characters. Characters from television shows have a ton more to draw from (feat-wise) than movie characters due to having multiple seasons/episodes.

The mixed genre threads in the CvF were (in large) successfull and really only stumbled and halted because we needed everyone to agree on matches to get a thread started.

TheAuraAngel
There are plenty more matches you could come up with. They just won't get much traffic compared to more popular matches.

That said, I have always wanted to see Ender Wiggin beat Lelouch in a fight. So if that means it can happen, I'd like it.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Fo sho'. We need more match-ups.

Star Wars EU vs Harry Potter ftw!

Maybe this isn't as good as I originally thought. mmm

MF DELPH
For it, and I'll help mod it if necessary. thumb up

TheAuraAngel
I would offer to mod but there are probably better options than me. stick out tongue

Nephthys
Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
Maybe this isn't as good I originally thought. mmm

ha-som

Impediment
If this happens, I am going to need a co-mod, definitely. If none of the existing mods want to help, I'll campaign for one to be hired by Raz.

XanatosForever
Overwhelming positive feedback so far. A lot of the reasons previous mentioned can sum up most users desires for an amalgam versus forum.

While I'm for it, I feel there is a need for someone to play devil's advocate here. In something as all encompassing as an amalgam versus forum, there's very likely to be a number of issues between users as the various formats are compared and contrasted. This could lead to many volatile flame wars.

Phanteros
re posting this here: Yeah it could be good as long as it isn't done like MVC did it( as in everything is DBZ Vs Comics or Shonen vs Comics Such, that's my biggest worry but then again that's on the assumption that's all the poster knows).

But since this site does have careful moderation I say go for it.

TheAuraAngel
Not to mention this Forum does get made, it will get a lot of traffic. Just cause it's new and such.

I haven't actually voted yet. I'm trying to think of the downsides.

On the one hand, many people will make threads that could not have been made before. It would open up flood gates for creativity, at least for a short time.

On the other hand, flaming and trolls would most certainly increase there. To an annoying level. And if it gets too bad, a lot of people will just go to different forums.

Lestov16
A large part of this site's prosperity (not trying to insult any other part of the site), is it's versus forums. The most visited forums on here is the comic book versus forums and movie versus forums. Individuals love pitting characters from their favorite franchises together. However, the strict rule of inter-medium fights somewhat impedes this fun. It limits our escapism to one medium, even though most of us undoubtedly have multiple mediums in which we find our entertainment.

The Scenario
Well, I would say that the genre specific matches are too limited, and there are only so many characters people will actually use in a versus thread. I notice that quite a few people just champion one or two characters and have passing interest in the rest, so things can get stagnant and slow if not a lot of people are involved. With an all versus, more combinations are possible and I guess more posters can meet each other (this point can be good or bad). But yeah, more options being available will likely revive a lot of interest in characters that normally wouldn't be usable.

Similarly, many characters span multiple forms of media and I notice that those not included in a given forum's genre are often brushed aside. This could also alleviate that a bit.

TheAuraAngel
It will certainly be more creative. Just likely to be more hectic as well if not handled the right way. The rules would have to very explicit about how a thread gets started. Make the posters specify who is competing, what medium they're from, the source material in said medium, and so on.

BruceSkywalker
i would love an all v. forum.. there are a lot of different characters from other types like comics, novels, tv shows, etc that can be used..

also i believe there would a lot of traffic.. not only from people in the mvf, but from every forum here on kmc..

Originally posted by Nephthys
Fo sho'. We need more match-ups.

Star Wars EU vs Harry Potter ftw!


lol..


Originally posted by Impediment
If this happens, I am going to need a co-mod, definitely. If none of the existing mods want to help, I'll campaign for one to be hired by Raz.


you are the best person for the job but i will help any way that i can

marwash22
Originally posted by MF DELPH
For it, and I'll help mod it if necessary. thumb up you wasted no time trying to reclaim your powers. sneer

Tha C-Master
Originally posted by marwash22
the biggest reason would be because there is a demand for it and it would also broaden our pool of characters. I personally vote yes because it would open up the possibility for more interesting threads 'cause we would be able to use tv show characters. Characters from television shows have a ton more to draw from (feat-wise) than movie characters due to having multiple seasons/episodes.

The mixed genre threads in the CvF were (in large) successfull and really only stumbled and halted because we needed everyone to agree on matches to get a thread started. As long as it is well managed. It would be a good idea, and I'm not sure why it hasn't been done sooner. Either way I'm all for it.

Impediment
The AVF rules would have to be METICULOUSLY written and reviewed. Given the right rules, it would work out splendidly, I believe.

ScreamPaste
If this happens, I'll pit the Painkiller from the Judas Priest song of the same name against random Meta level characters. Will be fun. Song gives him good feats.

Rogue Jedi
Things are gonna get messy.

Impediment
Nah. It'll be a'ight. With the right rules and right mod(s), it should flow like buttah.

TheAuraAngel
So...

Harry Potter vs Edward Cullen.

Both are originally book characters and as far as I know there is no BVF. So would that be allowed here?

If it were Harry Potter(Movies) vs Edward Cullen(Book) I'd imagine that would be perfect here.

But if it's Harry Potter(Movies) vs Edward Cullen(Movies) it really wouldn't be put here but in the MVF right?

Impediment
.

Nephthys
That sounds fair. If a thread can be made in another forum then it should be. Very sensible and fair. Except for the fact that Cullen would smack the british out of Harry that is.

Robtard
Originally posted by Impediment
The AVF rules would have to be METICULOUSLY written and reviewed. Given the right rules, it would work out splendidly, I believe.

"Father, forgive them, they know not what they do." -Jesus circa 32 AD

TheAuraAngel
Originally posted by Nephthys
That sounds fair. If a thread can be made in another forum then it should be. Very sensible and fair. Except for the fact that Cullen would smack the british out of Harry that is.

It will also keep things nice and clean here so that it's not too packed. stick out tongue

Though, this will require strict rules on an OP. Characters in multiple mediums would need specifics. Are we using Superman from the comics, cartoon, movies, N64 games?

BruceSkywalker
Originally posted by Impediment
The AVF rules would have to be METICULOUSLY written and reviewed. Given the right rules, it would work out splendidly, I believe.

i agree, it can work great especially if we all work hard and make it thrive..


Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Things are gonna get messy.


will only happen if we all let a bunch of shiite involved instead of adhering to the rules and regs

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
It will also keep things nice and clean here so that it's not too packed. stick out tongue

Though, this will require strict rules on an OP. Characters in multiple mediums would need specifics. Are we using Superman from the comics, cartoon, movies, N64 games?


i think once the thread starter specifies what can be used than i think the OP should be ok

Ridley_Prime
Can already imagine all the spite threads that will come from such a forum, but judging from the results, I guess it'll come to pass anyway. Very well then, this should be interesting...

Nemesis X
Can we also use characters from certain web series like Red vs. Blue? Characters like the Meta and Tex would be interesting to add in fights. Seriously. Just look at this:

Ke9wtbzGjCI

Nephthys
I know characters from Homestuck or Problem Slueth would be interesting to use in a fight. So I'm cool with Web comics/series characters personally.

TheAuraAngel
Well they are movie and comic characters technically. And it would be easier to show feats for them than others I'd suppose. stick out tongue

Impediment
The ayes have it!

BruceSkywalker
Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
Well they are movie and comic characters technically. And it would be easier to show feats for them than others I'd suppose. stick out tongue


i have like a gazillion comic book scans i can use as evidence big grin

Impediment
Face facts: Spite threads are unavoidable.

Mods will stop them.

quanchi112
This is a great idea. With my full support this should become a reality in no time.

Rogue Jedi
Originally posted by Impediment
Face facts: Spite threads are unavoidable.

Mods will stop them. And when the thread starter says "Nah, it's a joke thread?"

Cuz that's never happened roll eyes (sarcastic)

Rogue Jedi
Gonna be a problem with game characters. Take CJ from GTA: San Andreas. Does he get all his gear? Jetpack, planes and all? Is fighting a Jawsesque shark one of his feats?

RE: Blaxican
How is that a problem if we've done a thousand CJ from San Adreas threads in the games vs. over the past 5 years with absolutely zero problems?

Rogue Jedi
So it's CJ, the final version, maxed out, with all weapons/gear he is shown using?

K then. The samurai from Onimusha are gonna do a whole lotta rapin'.

dadudemon
Part of the rules will be specifying specific gear, venue, and "version" of the character.


That's pretty much par for the course in all versus threads on all of the interwebz.


There's absolute zero problem in trying to make a matchup.



For some rediculously geared individuals...say...comic book Ironman fighting a rediculously versitle character...say...Albus Dumbledore...

Just specify the venue and let people come up with stuff. It if turns out to be spite, just like in any other vs. thread, the thread starter can request it be closed OR a mod can come in and make that decision.

Impediment
Originally posted by dadudemon
Part of the rules will be specifying specific gear, venue, and "version" of the character.


That's pretty much par for the course in all versus threads on all of the interwebz.


There's absolute zero problem in trying to make a matchup.



For some rediculously geared individuals...say...comic book Ironman fighting a rediculously versitle character...say...Albus Dumbledore...

Just specify the venue and let people come up with stuff. It if turns out to be spite, just like in any other vs. thread, the thread starter can request it be closed OR a mod can come in and make that decision.

This.

McNasty996
I fully support this for multiple reasons but a main one is the lack of originality that has begun to appear across the forum as alot of matches have been redone at least once and there is a great pool of other characters from t series that could be used to great affect.

Impediment
I just don't understand why Rogue Jedi is alluva sudden anti-AVF when he has been campaigning for years for the very idea I am promoting now.

This will definitely pick up traffic and draw new members to the board.

Impediment
Originally posted by MF DELPH
For it, and I'll help mod it if necessary. thumb up

What sections did you mod? Why aren't you a mod now?

Peach
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Gonna be a problem with game characters. Take CJ from GTA: San Andreas. Does he get all his gear? Jetpack, planes and all? Is fighting a Jawsesque shark one of his feats?

No it won't. When it comes to things like that, generally it's stated in the first post of the thread exactly what is allowed and what isn't. If it isn't stated, it's not allowed.

We also have an additional rule in the VGVs; as far as the forum is concerned, only game feats are considered canon, and if feats from another source (like a movie or book or comic, if such things exist) are to be allowed, it also has to be stated. And then to take care of the fact that there are certain characters that are essentially invincible, we have a rule stating that for those characters to be used, they must lose that unbeatable element. The characters allowed in that forum cover such a wide and wild amount of variety, that we've made sure to try and cover as much as possible to prevent issues coming up.

Those rules work pretty damn well and have for years, and I believe that the MVF and Anime Versus rules are based off of the VGVs rules.

NemeBro
I think this should be made reality.

Why?

Well, largely because I said so.

But fact of the matter is that people are more limited in creating threads in the various medium-related subforums, what this presents is an opportunity for new match-ups us nerds can argue and flame eachother about (That last part is a joke).

So yes, All Versus Forum ftw.

Also, RJ, we have never had problems with characters such as CJ before.

And there are far stronger characters in gaming than the Onimusha characters. estahuh

Impediment
I pretty much ripped off Peach's VGV rules and ad libbed them since I'm too lazy to write my own.

awermm

Rogue Jedi
Originally posted by NemeBro


And there are far stronger characters in gaming than the Onimusha characters. estahuh Nuh uh mad

Nephthys
So where is this forum going to go?

Impediment
Hopefully in it's own section.

Bardock42
When did everyone change their opinion on this? I thought most of the Mods were against it?

Rogue Jedi
Oddly enough, when I was pushing for it, no one cared. Now that someone else is pushing for it, it's like the best thing ever.

Impediment
Originally posted by Bardock42
When did everyone change their opinion on this? I thought most of the Mods were against it?

The rest of the mod team was/is against an all versus forum due to nobody wanting to mod the thing. That, and people didn't know how smoothly the overall pace of the forum would flow. I feel that this proposed forum will attract new members and breath some much needed life back into the board. With the right set of rules, and person(s) to lead it, I feel that it could become a thriving place.



Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Oddly enough, when I was pushing for it, no one cared. Now that someone else is pushing for it, it's like the best thing ever.

It's all about presentation.

Lestov16
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Oddly enough, when I was pushing for it, no one cared. Now that someone else is pushing for it, it's like the best thing ever.

I'm pretty damn sure it was your comment on the MV-OT thread that jumpstarted this, and even if not, be happy that it's happening

Rogue Jedi
Originally posted by Impediment






It's all about presentation. Yeah, no comment. We both know better.

Impediment
I have no idea about what you're speaking. Personally, I don't get why you're having such an attitude with this.

Lestov16
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Yeah, no comment. We both know better.

Indeed. The entire reason of this isn't building a mass rapport with our fellows on this board whom we otherwise would probably not talk to. It's all to spite RJ! The conspiracy theorists are true!!

http://community.cbs47.tv/blogs/files/5005/4460989/end%20of%20the%20world.jpg

Rogue Jedi
Attitude? What attitude? I'm just making an observation. No attitude here.

Impediment
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Attitude? What attitude? I'm just making an observation. No attitude here.

By "attitude", I mean your less-than-joyous attitude towards this happening. You should be doing cart wheels like everyone else.

Lestov16
RJ, you know what's funny about your "observation"?

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
We need an anything versus forum.

Dante vs Kratos.

Dante/Kratos vs Samanosuke/Jubei.

From here

You started this, dude. I have no idea what the problem is

Rogue Jedi
Originally posted by Impediment
By "attitude", I mean your less-than-joyous attitude towards this happening. You should be doing cart wheels like everyone else. I'll just bite my tongue about it then.

Rogue Jedi
Originally posted by Lestov16
RJ, you know what's funny about your "observation"?



From here

You started this, dude. I have no idea what the problem is I petitioned for this a yearish ago. Right away it was met with harsh criticism. The only person who was willing to listen to me with any objectivity was Matt.

Now, as it comes to potential fruition, I am beginning to see that what the critics were saying, they could be right. It's gonna be hit or miss. It's gonna go incredibly smooth or be a huge cluster****.



If it goes south, I don't wanna be known as the guy who had the shitty idea, know what I mean?

Impediment
It works just fine on other websites, and it can work just as well here.

Bardock42
Well, I'm still for trying anything new, can't really be much worse and I don't see a huge risk with it anyways (maybe a lot of wasted hours of Impediment's time, but who cares about that guy anyways, amirite?)

Impediment
Hopefully, Raz will give me some mod help.

quanchi112
Originally posted by Impediment
It works just fine on other websites, and it can work just as well here. Correct. There's no reason it shouldn't work here either. Overall this will give tv characters from true blood, game of thrones, etc. a place to debate and pump life into all sections. Take a lesser frequented board like the star wars board which I rarely if ever go into but I'd definitely debate the movie characters if I saw a thread pop up with them and not have to come in a day to see a response.

BruceSkywalker
Originally posted by Impediment
It works just fine on other websites, and it can work just as well here.

yes it can definitely work here.. with more traffic and decent threads it will thrive

Rogue Jedi
Helghast versus Necromongers yes

quanchi112
Originally posted by BruceSkywalker
yes it can definitely work here.. with more traffic and decent threads it will thrive I honestly can't see a legit argument as to not have it. It's a win/win situation.

BruceSkywalker
Originally posted by quanchi112
I honestly can't see a legit argument as to not have it. It's a win/win situation.


i agree

dadudemon
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Might be a while, dude, I sent him the pm we talked about, the anything vs forum, still waiting for a reply.

That's the oldest reference to an AVF that I could find.

NemeBro
Over on game vs. we have been talking about an AVF for years. estahuh

Rogue Jedi
Originally posted by dadudemon
That's the oldest reference to an AVF that I could find.


And when was it dated?

Nemesis X
Alucard vs. Jackie Estacado (comic book version) anyone?

dadudemon
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
And when was it dated?

Click the damn link in the quoted text and find out. no expression


*holds back his smacking-pimp hand*

BruceSkywalker
Originally posted by Nemesis X
Alucard vs. Jackie Estacado (comic book version) anyone?

thumb up

Rogue Jedi
Samanosuke Akechi!!!!!


Best video game intro, ever:


u3nil3KC3n0&feature=related

Peach
How about we stay on topic?

TheAuraAngel
Right.

An All Versus Forum is certainly able to be pulled off but it will take a little discipline. Standard rules will apply of course, no 1v1v1 fights, must be a cross between two mediums(or from a medium that doesn't have a versus thread), no No-Limits Fallacies, etc.

It will be bloated at first because a lot of people will want to see how their personal favorites fair up against others. All well and fun so long as A) No obvious spite and B) People learn to act mature.

Oh and since this thread already exists, no reason to let it get made. Along with any other cross medium threads that are particularly notorious for causing a lot of commotion.

BruceSkywalker
Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
Right.

An All Versus Forum is certainly able to be pulled off but it will take a little discipline. Standard rules will apply of course, no 1v1v1 fights, must be a cross between two mediums(or from a medium that doesn't have a versus thread), no No-Limits Fallacies, etc.

It will be bloated at first because a lot of people will want to see how their personal favorites fair up against others. All well and fun so long as A) No obvious spite and B) People learn to act mature.

Oh and since this thread already exists, no reason to let it get made. Along with any other cross medium threads that are particularly notorious for causing a lot of commotion.

triple threat matches can work if done right, but that will be up to Matt and who ever else mods it when the rules are set

and yeah that thread was fun reading

TheAuraAngel
Eh, they aren't allowed in the quite a few of the forums. So I figured it would be par for the course. 1v1v1 would get a little annoying I'd think. For example:

OoT Link(VG) vs Spider-Man(Movies) vs Sasuke Uchiha(Anime/Manga)

Link has little of a discernible personality so I don't know how he'd proceed here or who he'd consider to be the first to attack. Spider-Man in the movies would probably attack the one that looks most dangerous but neither really do. And Sasuke is insane so who knows who he'd attack first?

You get the point though of course. 2v2 means there would be some semblance of teamwork. Usually anyway, which is what makes it easier to guess how things will play out.

Of course, it is the mods decision. stick out tongue

dadudemon
Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
Right.

An All Versus Forum is certainly able to be pulled off but it will take a little discipline. Standard rules will apply of course, no 1v1v1 fights, must be a cross between two mediums(or from a medium that doesn't have a versus thread), no No-Limits Fallacies, etc.

It will be bloated at first because a lot of people will want to see how their personal favorites fair up against others. All well and fun so long as A) No obvious spite and B) People learn to act mature.

Oh and since this thread already exists, no reason to let it get made. Along with any other cross medium threads that are particularly notorious for causing a lot of commotion.

I strongly disagree with the 1v1v1 matches. It can and does work. We could quickly bring things in line if rules are enforced properly. Members will quickly learn what is acceptable and what is not.

Also, no limit fallacies are going to happen. Limit fallacies, which is the exact opposite of the no limits fallacy, are also going to happen. These are actually impossible to avoid ESPECIALLY when no upper limit has been named, or an unlimited statement has been made. I can go into great detail but suffice it to this:

Susano'o's mirror shield (something that popped into my mind, recently, as I was reading the Naruto thread): it can reflect any attack. Is that really true? Surely there's a limit? Maybe the "any attack" applies only to the relatively weak attacks of the Naruto-verse. A solar-system busting attack is certainly well beyond anything the characters in Naruto can fathom or have been exposed to...so possibly that's the limit? But wait...that's a limits fallacy. It very well could be infinite since it is not a "physical shield": it could very well reflect any energetic attack, no matter how large, simply because it's mystical. Placing any limit on it would be a fallacy that I LOVE to call the limits fallacy.



And thus is the case for no limits/limits fallacy being inevitable. You cannot simply ban any character or power simply because it will end up in an inevitable limits fallacy.


What needs to happen?


Solution: if it is discovered that a character or ability ends up in the hole of no limits/limits fallacies, the thread starter WITH the ruling of a mod, will need to amend the Opening Post's thread conditions. Time into the thread should not matter. It is impossible for a single individual to think of every possible angle in a versus match-up. I would like to see the ruling mod actually amend the OP so that people who have been gone from the AVF, after a while, can read the OP and be exactly up to date. I always feel sorry for those people that read the first 2 or 3 pages of a thread and are out of the loop when they finally make a decisions ONLY to find out that there are changes to the thread direction that makes their post stupid/irrelevant/wrong.

What this does not mean: the thread starter cannot change the thread conditions simply to keep his or her thread open, turn the favor in a matchup, or to spite other individuals. This WOULD require mods to be actively participating in order to make an informed decision on the thread. That's part of the reason so many mods are/were getting headaches over the suggestion.

Maturity will never be reached, ever, in any type of versus thread matchup. Ever.

Finally, there are literally DOZENS of different Superman vs. Goku threads that could be made since there are DOZENS (hundreds?) of versions of each character. That's what's so beautiful about an AVF: it has an almost infinite number of combination for matchups. smile

TheAuraAngel
I was talking more along the lines of fallacies that say something like:

"Ganondorf can only be killed by the Master Sword."

Which then leads to threads where even if the other person is certainly at Ganondorfs level, they can't be beaten.

Or whenever someone says Voldemort can't be killed because of them there Horcruxes.

Essentially any fallacy that makes you look like someone trying to make a thread look like spite when it technically isn't. Making a thread where a character is technically invincible to whatever the opponents can do is rather boring.

Cleared up? stick out tongue

If not, here ya go. Rule 12 explains it for me. And I just used flippant language. Granted, No-Limits fallacies still suck as an argument.

Edit: Also, just because you can technically have more than one thread of Goku vs Superman doesn't mean you might want to. It is a rather hot topic after all and one that might just lead to more headaches than anything else.

Bardock42
We should also remember that there's no "work" or "not work" outside of what we like to define it as no expression

chomperx9
Vega vs Shredder

who wins ?

dadudemon
Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
I was talking more along the lines of fallacies that say something like:

"Ganondorf can only be killed by the Master Sword."

Which then leads to threads where even if the other person is certainly at Ganondorfs level, they can't be beaten.

Or whenever someone says Voldemort can't be killed because of them there Horcruxes.

Essentially any fallacy that makes you look like someone trying to make a thread look like spite when it technically isn't. Making a thread where a character is technically invincible to whatever the opponents can do is rather boring.

Cleared up? stick out tongue.


Awesome, yeah. We are on the EXACT same page. So much so that it's disturbing.

That's NOT supposed to happen. mad



I think all of that "crap" can be resolved in the OP as long as it isn't what people in the MVF call "gimping."

But that's essentially what it is.

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
Edit: Also, just because you can technically have more than one thread of Goku vs Superman doesn't mean you might want to. It is a rather hot topic after all and one that might just lead to more headaches than anything else.

I certainly do agree. I was just playing devil's advocate because I don't like to stifle conversation at the cost of pragmatism: let the posters have fun with an almost futile/ended debate.

Nephthys
Originally posted by dadudemon
Also, no limit fallacies are going to happen. Limit fallacies, which is the exact opposite of the no limits fallacy, are also going to happen. These are actually impossible to avoid ESPECIALLY when no upper limit has been named, or an unlimited statement has been made. I can go into great detail but suffice it to this:

Susano'o's mirror shield (something that popped into my mind, recently, as I was reading the Naruto thread): it can reflect any attack. Is that really true? Surely there's a limit? Maybe the "any attack" applies only to the relatively weak attacks of the Naruto-verse. A solar-system busting attack is certainly well beyond anything the characters in Naruto can fathom or have been exposed to...so possibly that's the limit? But wait...that's a limits fallacy. It very well could be infinite since it is not a "physical shield": it could very well reflect any energetic attack, no matter how large, simply because it's mystical. Placing any limit on it would be a fallacy that I LOVE to call the limits fallacy.

angryfist

TheAuraAngel
Originally posted by dadudemon
Awesome, yeah. We are on the EXACT same page. So much so that it's disturbing.

I think all of that "crap" can be resolved in the OP as long as it isn't what people in the MVF call "gimping."

But that's essentially what it is.

Indeed. We are on the 5th page.

Well depends on the situation. Just take out whatever rules say such and such can't be killed by anything except this macguffin so that opponents can fight. Not so much gimping as evening the playing field. stick out tongue

dadudemon
Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
Indeed. We are on the 5th page.

hmm

Well, I do believe you've proven that deadpan humor CAN work in text form.

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
Well depends on the situation. Just take out whatever rules say such and such can't be killed by anything except this macguffin so that opponents can fight. Not so much gimping as evening the playing field. stick out tongue

I also think the using creativity can go a long way in making a thread worth it with OUT needing to gimp.


Why couldn't we give the master sword to...say....Duncan McLeod?

I need one of these, too: ---> smile

Nemesis X
I just realized that if an All Versus Forum is made, someone will someday make a Kain vs. Alucard thread and when that happens, Burning thought and FinalAnswer will unleash armageddon in there.

In other news, I don't know why but I want to make a Master Chief vs. Wolverine thread. John could have a chance if given the right weapons.

TheAuraAngel
Originally posted by dadudemon
hmm

Well, I do believe you've proven that deadpan humor CAN work in text form.



I also think the using creativity can go a long way in making a thread worth it with OUT needing to gimp.


Why couldn't we give the master sword to...say....Duncan McLeod?

I need one of these, too: ---> smile

Indeed it can.

Well technically that can work but I prefer the method of saying Ganondorf can be defeated without it. Someone not used to fighting with a sword, say Goku, is not likely to realize he needs to use it. It's sort of limiting his opponents to having to do something they wouldn't do.

And Duncan would get stomped.

Rogue Jedi
Originally posted by Peach
How about we stay on topic? Right, apologies.


Let me ask you a question, do games have a place in an all versus forum? I mean would feats be difficult to prove?

Impediment
Of course they have a place. It's worked well for years in the VGV.

Nephthys
Originally posted by dadudemon
I also think the using creativity can go a long way in making a thread worth it with OUT needing to gimp.


Why couldn't we give the master sword to...say....Duncan McLeod?

I need one of these, too: ---> smile

What about characters who aren't trained to use a sword? Hell, what about characters who can't even hold a sword properly? Do you not think that would be equally gimping them when their only viable form of attack is something they're either crap at using or literally cannot use?

Rogue Jedi
Originally posted by Impediment
Of course they have a place. It's worked well for years in the VGV. So I guess the thread starter specifies, if using Dante Sparda, for example, if he is as he was at the beginning of DMC1? Or at the end? Or as he was in 2, or all? That's what's confusing me.

Peach
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Right, apologies.


Let me ask you a question, do games have a place in an all versus forum? I mean would feats be difficult to prove?

Why wouldn't they? I mean, the VGVs has been going for nearly as long as the CBVs, and with the fewest problems of all of the Vs. forums. The assumption is that if it's not specified in the first post, that they have access to all of their powers in the canon games. So, like with Dante, he'd be able to do anything that he's shown to do in the DMC games, but not MvC.

It's really not difficult at all. People coming from the other Vs forum might have to get used to it, but the minions have been doing it fine for years.

Impediment
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
So I guess the thread starter specifies, if using Dante Sparda, for example, if he is as he was at the beginning of DMC1? Or at the end? Or as he was in 2, or all? That's what's confusing me.

It's no different than how we do it in the MVF.

You pick the characters, assign the setting/scenario, and then you give them any handicap(s) that you wish, without gimping, of course.

In my opinion, you should only choose abilities from the actual games that they are represented in. However, being that I'm not a VGVS mod, I'm very open to suggestions.

Example:

"Dante from DMC1 has all of his weapons, enhancements, and power ups as he did at the final battle of the game.

vs.

Kratos from GOW II, but at the beginning of the game just as he is about to battle the Colossus of Rhoades.

Fight takes place in Nibelheim from FFVII."

It can totally work. All you need is viable knowledge of the medium(s) that you choose to make a thread with.

Ushgarak
Just to check what is being proposed here.

Is it only for cross-medium match-ups or would comic vs comic and games vs games match-ups be allowed in there as well?

Impediment
Originally posted by Ushgarak
Just to check what is being proposed here.

Is it only for cross-medium match-ups or would comic vs comic and games vs games match-ups be allowed in there as well?

Good question.

Do you think that cross medium matches should ONLY be allowed?

In my opinion, I think that they should.

Ushgarak
Well when this was first discussed long ago I remember this being a point of contention.

In theory, it seems odd if you don;t allow same-same match-ups along the others... but if you do, then all the other areas start to look a little redundant.

Peach
Originally posted by Ushgarak
Just to check what is being proposed here.

Is it only for cross-medium match-ups or would comic vs comic and games vs games match-ups be allowed in there as well?

My assumption is that it'd be for cross-medium matches only, and that if it belongs somewhere else it goes there, not here.

I don't really care, either way - I only care about this at all because it'll cut down the amount of rule-breaking in my forum (which isn't much, to be fair, but still, none is best).

Originally posted by Impediment
It's no different than how we do it in the MVF.

You pick the characters, assign the setting/scenario, and then you give them any handicap(s) that you wish, without gimping, of course.

In my opinion, you should only choose abilities from the actual games that they are represented in. However, being that I'm not a VGVS mod, I'm very open to suggestions.

Example:

"Dante from DMC1 has all of his weapons, enhancements, and power ups as he did at the final battle of the game.

vs.

Kratos from GOW II, but at the beginning of the game just as he is about to battle the Colossus of Rhoades.

Fight takes place in Nibelheim from FFVII."

It can totally work. All you need is viable knowledge of the medium(s) that you choose to make a thread with.

That's pretty much exactly how we do it. And I'm not sure how you do it, but we encourage people to use wiki links, youtube videos, and etc. so everyone will know what they're talking about when they bring up specific feats and versions so there's less confusion.

General Kaliero
Clearly, if matches fulfilled the criteria for MVF or VGV they'd belong there.

Unless the idea is for All Vs. to subsume the current VS. forums. But I think that'd only make things more complicated.

All Vs. should be for the cross-medium matches that don't fit in the existing forums, in my opinion.

Originally posted by Ushgarak
Well when this was first discussed long ago I remember this being a point of contention.

In theory, it seems odd if you don;t allow same-same match-ups along the others... but if you do, then all the other areas start to look a little redundant.
Exactly. So the question is... do we have a new VS. area of the forums for All Vs. with the Movie/Comic/Anime/Game-specific ones as subforums?

Impediment
Originally posted by General Kaliero
Clearly, if matches fulfilled the criteria for MVF or VGV they'd belong there.

Unless the idea is for All Vs. to subsume the current VS. forums. But I think that'd only make things more complicated.

All Vs. should be for the cross-medium matches that don't fit in the existing forums, in my opinion.


Originally posted by Peach
My assumption is that it'd be for cross-medium matches only, and that if it belongs somewhere else it goes there, not here.

You're right.

If somebody wants to make a movie vs movie/comic vs comic/game vs game/etc, then the thread should go in the appropriate forum.

The All Versus should be strictly for cross medium matches only. I mean, that's the whole point, isn't it?

I really never gave it much thought until Ush just now brought it up.

Ushgarak
Not that I know the first thing about vs forums, of course.

But it may seem a little odd that if I wanted to make a set of, say, Superman (the comics) vs. threads that if I wanted one of him vs. Darth Vader I could do it here, or one of him vs. Ganon I could do it here... but if I wanted him vs. the Hulk I'd have to do it somewhere else.

But as I say, if I can do him vs. the Hulk here, the purpose of the comics only vs looks questionable.

It's certainly an area to consider.

Peach
I see it as being similar to the OTF. Stuff that doesn't fit anywhere else can go there, but if there is another forum it fits better, it goes in the other forum - it's just a catch-all for the stuff that already doesn't have a specific home.

Plus there will be people who want to still debate their regular CBVs/VGVs/MVF matches without wading through all of the chaos in an AVF looking for the threads they want.

General Kaliero
Originally posted by Peach
I see it as being similar to the OTF. Stuff that doesn't fit anywhere else can go there, but if there is another forum it fits better, it goes in the other forum - it's just a catch-all for the stuff that already doesn't have a specific home.

Plus there will be people who want to still debate their regular CBVs/VGVs/MVF matches without wading through all of the chaos in an AVF looking for the threads they want.
I agree with this, as an All Vs. would be relatively chaotic. It would certainly make things easier to mod to keep the medium-specific threads to themselves.

Impediment
Agreed. If it fits in the MVF/CBVS/VGVS, etc, then it should by all means go there. Cross medium only should go in the AVF else utter chaos would ensue.

Ushgarak
Not that this is in any way me speaking against the idea, as I am neutral on almost all vs. developments, but if it is kept as cross-medium only you would need to consider the following

1. Some people won't be happy. This is always true, of course, but this would specifically upset some

2. There will be arguments over the definition of 'anything'

3. There will be those who want cross-medium fights that won't necessarily be happy with being sent out of its 'home' area to some chaotic other place, and by opposition there will be those who want to keep a string of threads about the same character in one area instead of scattered.

Obviously if you are willing to put the mod effort in then all is well. It's just an inherently awkward process.

As for people not wanting to wade through rubbish- this is true, but that's actually a reason why specific vs. areas still have a purpose even if same-same threads are allowed in anything vs.

Impediment
Originally posted by Ushgarak
Not that this is in any way me speaking against the idea, as I am neutral on almost all vs. developments, but if it is kept as cross-medium only you would need to consider the following

1. Some people won't be happy. This is always true, of course, but this would specifically upset some

2. There will be arguments over the definition of 'anything'

3. There will be those who want cross-medium fights that won't necessarily be happy with being sent out of its 'home' area to some chaotic other place, and by opposition there will be those who want to keep a string of threads about the same character in one area instead of scattered.

Obviously if you are willing to put the mod effort in then all is well. It's just an inherently awkward process.

Originally, the proposed name was "Anything Versus", but the name was tweaked to mean, basically, an ALL Versus forum to intertwine all of the existing mediums (movie, comic, game, book, tv, and anime). It won't literally be ANYTHING, but, rather, all of the existing mediums rolled into one.

Ushgarak
Well I can only recommend that this is made very clear!

Peach
Of course not everyone's going to be happy. That's going to be the case with everything we do, ever. If you try and please everyone, you're never, ever going to accomplish anything; best to find a middle ground that most people are happy with.

What exactly would be allowed is something that would be spelled out in the rules. Yes, there will be some problems with it, especially at first when people adjust to it (and when you get newbies who start posting without reading the rules), but over all, I don't see that as really being a big deal.

And in response to the third point...I point back up to my first paragraph. I don't think anyone's expecting for all of the Vs. forums to be combined into one big pool of insanity, so they know that if they want to argue Batman vs. Link, they're going to have to venture out of their main stomping grounds.

A good primer on how to use the KMC search engine would help a lot, too. I have a basic one in the rules for my forum, and it does help.

General Kaliero
Most of the issues can be easily dealt with via a good set of rules, and links to the appropriate subforums.

Personally though, allowing same-same threads in All Vs. while keeping the specific forums would only lead to confusion as people forget whether a certain rebuttal was made in the Superman vs. Hulk thread in the All Vs. forum, or the identically-named thread in CV. It's redundant and in all likelihood would be complained about.

Ushgarak
I am perfectly aware that you cannot please everyone, as I even specified. I was raising points to consider about whether this really is the middle ground you speak of. Sometimes by trying something you can cause more aggravation, not less.

Bardock42
On the points Ush raised, I think it should be only for character match ups that do not fit in the already established forums. That should be made very clear in the rules, with links to the appropriate forums. This I think is better for two reasons a) in order to not steal the thunder, or actually even make those other forums pointless and b) cause it would be a gigantic forum, the by far biggest and fastest on the board if it got all the traffic from the other vs. forums, which doesn't seem desirable.

Another question is whether it should only be fictional or fictionalized characters or if the "Muhammed Ali vs Bruce Lee" and similar debates could find a place there.

Lastly where would this forum be put? To me there seem to be two logical places and one perhaps convenient place. That is either in the Community section (as an equal to GDF and OTF or as a subsection of GDF), as a forum under "Misc" or as a subforum of the move forum (that being convenient with Impediment as mod, but ever so slightly illogical).

Nephthys
Non-fictional characters would be interesting to debate imo.

Impediment
In my opinion, the actual location of the All Versus Forum isn't really a priority issue with me, so long as we actually get our AVF.

I agree 100%, Bardock, that cross-genre threads should only be allowed, with specific rules stated for such.

As far as non-fictional characters are concerned, do you feel that if would be an impediment (LOL) to the overall flow of the forum?

Rogue Jedi
Wouldn't this:

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f60/


Be the best place for it?

BruceSkywalker
Originally posted by Impediment
In my opinion, the actual location of the All Versus Forum isn't really a priority issue with me, so long as we actually get our AVF.

I agree 100%, Bardock, that cross-genre threads should only be allowed, with specific rules stated for such.

As far as non-fictional characters are concerned, do you feel that if would be an impediment (LOL) to the overall flow of the forum?


non fictional characters would be just fine, IMO...



Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Wouldn't this:

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f60/


Be the best place for it?


as Matt said it doesn't really matter as long it actually happens

Rogue Jedi
Originally posted by BruceSkywalker
non fictional characters would be just fine, IMO...






as Matt said it doesn't really matter as long it actually happens Just saying, an all vs forum definitely falls under "Misc."

Impediment
I'm still kinda on the fence about allowing non-fictional characters. In a largely fictional forum, how could one portray, say, Bruce Lee vs. Mohammad Ali?

Peach
I'd be wary of non-fictional characters as well, myself.

Rogue Jedi
Originally posted by Impediment
I'm still kinda on the fence about allowing non-fictional characters. In a largely fictional forum, how could one portray, say, Bruce Lee vs. Mohammad Ali? Thread like that already in the GDF.

And yeah, what Peach just said.

TheAuraAngel
Originally posted by Peach
the VGVs has been going for nearly as long as the CBVs, and with the fewest problems of all of the Vs. forums.

Bragging on ourselves a bit there Peachy? stick out tongue

Kidding aside though, VG characters work just fine. They aren't a problem. It is mostly the segregation of cut scene and gameplay that I see posing a problem.

As for what the thread should encompass, it really should just be cross medium. Only exception I feel is right would be if the medium doesn't itself have a Versus forum. That is not to say we'd have to close the thread. If it hasn't been done before, unlikely but possible, it can always be moved to it's more appropriate forum. I think that would work anyway.

As for using real life people in threads...I'm a little torn. For starters, the Deadliest Warrior show is kind of already doing that. Second, it would be harder to provide feats for real life people. No Word of God, probably not many videos, etc. There'd certainly be some but few I'd think. Third, with a fictional character we can always get a feel for their personalities, something that isn't always the case for real life people. Makes it more difficult to see how a fight would play out.

I'm rather on the fence about it.

General Kaliero
Of course, Deadliest Warrior is shitty and stupid.

Fictional characters only, I say. In most cases we don't know enough factually about non-fictional people, and the ones people really want (say, Abe Lincoln vs. Ghengis Khan) have enough legendary status that I'm sure some medium has a fictionalized version available.

Peach
Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
Bragging on ourselves a bit there Peachy? stick out tongue


Hey, having wrestled that forum into some semblence of sanity is kind of a feat, okay stick out tongue And it is true that there's the least trouble coming out of the VGVs, as compared to the other Vs. forums.

Impediment
Originally posted by General Kaliero
Fictional characters only, I say. In most cases we don't know enough factually about non-fictional people, and the ones people really want (say, Abe Lincoln vs. Ghengis Khan) have enough legendary status that I'm sure some medium has a fictionalized version available.

Duly noted. I agree with fictional characters only as viable material in an AVF. Anything else would just be too messy and unreliable for ample feats.

Robtard
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
I don't wanna be known as the guy who had the shitty idea, know what I mean?

Bit late for that, eh?

TheAuraAngel
Originally posted by General Kaliero
Of course, Deadliest Warrior is shitty and stupid.

Fictional characters only, I say. In most cases we don't know enough factually about non-fictional people, and the ones people really want (say, Abe Lincoln vs. Ghengis Khan) have enough legendary status that I'm sure some medium has a fictionalized version available.

Well yeah but that goes without saying. stick out tongue

This is true. If one wanted to use Ali, they can just use the film version of him. Makes it easier in any case.

Originally posted by Peach
Hey, having wrestled that forum into some semblence of sanity is kind of a feat, okay stick out tongue And it is true that there's the least trouble coming out of the VGVs, as compared to the other Vs. forums.

It might be. Then again, maybe kids who play video games are just more mature than others? shifty

Lestov16
Originally posted by Robtard
Bit late for that, eh?

He made that decision June 24th, 2003 big grin

Rogue Jedi
Originally posted by Robtard
Bit late for that, eh? Hey, it seemed like you needed a friend.

NowYouRemember
Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
There are plenty more matches you could come up with. They just won't get much traffic compared to more popular matches.

That said, I have always wanted to see Ender Wiggin beat Lelouch in a fight. So if that means it can happen, I'd like it.



Maybe this isn't as good as I originally thought. mmm

Does this mean we get to use folks from books against movie/anime characters?

I've always wanted to see Fenring versus Wrath, but Fenring's combative abilties are only really hinted at in the Dune novel and not the film. (Where he's also absent.)

Impediment
Originally posted by NowYouRemember
Does this mean we get to use folks from books against movie/anime characters?

I've always wanted to see Fenring versus Wrath, but Fenring's combative abilties are only really hinted at in the Dune novel and not the film. (Where he's also absent.)

It sure does!

quanchi112
Originally posted by Impediment
Good question.

Do you think that cross medium matches should ONLY be allowed?

In my opinion, I think that they should. I think it all should be good myself personally. The great thing about it is comic guys who play video games but don't frequent the video game vs. forum will see it and likely respond and vice versa.

I know this is just my opinion and do realize that cross medium matches will be good now and for tv characters to get some play but I'm interested in getting different opinions other than going to same sections and already knowing pretty much every normal members opinion on a topic. Very little surprises for me anymore.

When I used to post on herochat they had an all vs. section and used real people as well like mike tyson vs. ali and what not and it works fine. Now I am sure right out of the gate problems may arise and confusion may abound but that will quickly dissolve once order is established and people get the hang of it.

I do realize this might detract from the vs. sections of movie vs. forums or comic vs. but highly doubt it will be a huge change since I believe the core members will stick to these places they have regularly posted at for years.

With all this being said if it's just a cross medium this holds very little if any appeal to me personally.

TheAuraAngel
Originally posted by quanchi112
With all this being said if it's just a cross medium this holds very little if any appeal to me personally.

Why? It's still a good idea. New and interesting enough that it certainly will hold some appeal. Only Cross medium matches limits the space taken up and allows for the other forums to keep going strong. If we didn't have that rule, we'd likely get a lot of duplicate threads, like Master Chief vs Samus.

That said, there is really one important thing I had forgotten about: Characters not allowed in certain forums. In the VGV and AVF, the rules state that all characters must originate in a video game/anime respectively. This means that popular series, most notable being God of War, can't really contribute many characters. If someone wanted to make a thread like say:

Zeus(God of War) vs Sora(Kingdom Hearts)

I do think that would be okay. Both are video game characters but the thread can't be made in the VGV based on the current rules. Same situation applies to anime I suppose if someone wanted to do, say:

Powerpuff Girls Z vs Astro Boy.

Both are technically anime characters but the thread wasn't allowed.

Now while I do think this is as close a solution as one can get to having this thread satisfy desires without having to hurt the other forums, it does lead to the obvious possibility of the forum becoming too bloated. And it might still take attention away from the other forums.

So, my two cents. ^^

dadudemon
I see the AVF, also, as being a "cross" vs. thread, as well.

Strictly comic vs. comic would stay in the CVF. Movie characters versus movie characters would stay in the MVF, etc.



About nonfiction vs.: those should stay in the GDF where they have been made. When dealing with history, historians, and politics, that's really best suited for the GDF. There have been no problems with the placement, in the past, so why should it start mattering, right? Besides, so few non-fiction vs. threads get made that it will amount to very little in the grand-scheme of things: those threads will account for less than 1% of the threads IF non-fiction matches were created.



I suspect that the forum activity for the AVF will be able to be mapped to the Gartner Hype Cycle: except this hype cycle realized in less than 6 months rather than a few years. During the initial "zerg rush" of threads and ideas, we will see lots of inappropriate threads created. Once the excitement wears off, we should see a sag in activity and it will start to slowly build back up and reach a more stable level that is quite manageable. I suspect that activity will be somewhere between the MVF and CVF, once things settle.


There is an X-Factor: it could slowly increase in activity as time goes by, after the initial hype. This growth could also be partially external as we are already creating threads on KMC that cannot be found anywhere else on the internet.


AVF Social thread?

What about, just for fun, an annual "AVF" awards thread as voted on by the posters and mods? (Best Thread matchup, funniest matchup, best army v. army matchup, largest unintentional spite thread, best AVF post rebuttal of the year, etc. That would be fun, I think.)

quanchi112
Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
Why? It's still a good idea. New and interesting enough that it certainly will hold some appeal. Only Cross medium matches limits the space taken up and allows for the other forums to keep going strong. If we didn't have that rule, we'd likely get a lot of duplicate threads, like Master Chief vs Samus.

That said, there is really one important thing I had forgotten about: Characters not allowed in certain forums. In the VGV and AVF, the rules state that all characters must originate in a video game/anime respectively. This means that popular series, most notable being God of War, can't really contribute many characters. If someone wanted to make a thread like say:

Zeus(God of War) vs Sora(Kingdom Hearts)

I do think that would be okay. Both are video game characters but the thread can't be made in the VGV based on the current rules. Same situation applies to anime I suppose if someone wanted to do, say:

Powerpuff Girls Z vs Astro Boy.

Both are technically anime characters but the thread wasn't allowed.

Now while I do think this is as close a solution as one can get to having this thread satisfy desires without having to hurt the other forums, it does lead to the obvious possibility of the forum becoming too bloated. And it might still take attention away from the other forums.

So, my two cents. ^^ I didn't say it wasn't a good idea I just said it holds very little appeal to me personally. The more options to debate the better but I bet it'll have very little traffic.

That would be interesting to argue all those video games characters not allowed in the video game vs. That would be nice but I'm just saying I'd like an all vs. but I doubt that's going to happen since it might take away from the specific rooms.

I guess too we could make Dante's Inferno the entire game vs. God of war the entire game since most enemies aren't allowed in the vs. section board.

Ok, I'm a lot more interested now if this pans out.

Every other board I have basically been to has had one all vs. section so it'd be ok with me but I know it's a major change that likely wouldn't see the light of day.

dadudemon
Originally posted by quanchi112
I didn't say it wasn't a good idea I just said it holds very little appeal to me personally. The more options to debate the better but I bet it'll have very little traffic.

That would be interesting to argue all those video games characters not allowed in the video game vs. That would be nice but I'm just saying I'd like an all vs. but I doubt that's going to happen since it might take away from the specific rooms.

I guess too we could make Dante's Inferno the entire game vs. God of war the entire game since most enemies aren't allowed in the vs. section board.

Ok, I'm a lot more interested now if this pans out.

Every other board I have basically been to has had one all vs. section so it'd be ok with me but I know it's a major change that likely wouldn't see the light of day.

In the instances where you could not have certain video game characters fight, you COULD make them fight in the AVF.

Lemme sum it up like this: if you can't make the versus matchup anywhere else, the AVF is the best place.


We just need to get clarification on what threads will stay in which sub-forum.

quanchi112
Originally posted by dadudemon
In the instances where you could not have certain video game characters fight, you COULD make them fight in the AVF.

Lemme sum it up like this: if you can't make the versus matchup anywhere else, the AVF is the best place.


We just need to get clarification on what threads will stay in which sub-forum. I do think this is much better than just a cross medium thing and still would support it either way just because it let's others debate topics they have always wanted to. I am just making my opinion known that I believe all vs. matchups is what I ultimately want in terms of traffic and getting outside opinion other an the regulars in each sub forum.

Impediment
If we allowed movie vs movie/comic vs comic/game vs game/etc in an All Versus Forum, the existing forums for genre specifric matches would be redundant. Cross genre matches should only be allowed in an AVF due to the fact, also, that many, many, many dupe threads would be created thus creating a splendiferous clusterf*ck. Were it to be not cross genre only, I would have no interest whatsoever to mod such a place as it would be a terrible strain.

TheAuraAngel
Indeed, it would cause a strain on whomever mods if we were to allow it to encompass all the other mediums instead of just being cross genre. That said, what is your opinion on letting threads that can't be made in other forums(Zeus from God of War vs Sora example) be allowed? It's the only thing I can think of that has a chance at pleasing everyone but you're the one planning to mod so it is ultimately your decision. Well, if it gets made that is.

dadudemon
Originally posted by Impediment
If we allowed movie vs movie/comic vs comic/game vs game/etc in an All Versus Forum, the existing forums for genre specifric matches would be redundant. Cross genre matches should only be allowed in an AVF due to the fact, also, that many, many, many dupe threads would be created thus creating a splendiferous clusterf*ck. Were it to be not cross genre only, I would have no interest whatsoever to mod such a place as it would be a terrible strain.

Not to mention the modding expertise required to effectively mod such a forum would be monumental. Part of the reason I think each of the current vs. forums do so well is due to the modding expertise from each of the primary mods.

I think that this new AVF, even assuming cross-only matches, will still require asking other mods to clarify or assist in some of the threads. We may end up in a situation where we have to ask -Pr- and Peach to provide their expertise for ruling on a comic book character vs. a video game character, for example. laughing

I can see why the mods groaned at this original idea. It's probably because the don't want this place to fall to shit which means they genuinely care about the quality.

Impediment
Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
Indeed, it would cause a strain on whomever mods if we were to allow it to encompass all the other mediums instead of just being cross genre. That said, what is your opinion on letting threads that can't be made in other forums(Zeus from God of War vs Sora example) be allowed? It's the only thing I can think of that has a chance at pleasing everyone but you're the one planning to mod so it is ultimately your decision. Well, if it gets made that is.

Why wouldn't Zeus vs Sora be allowed in the VGV? Seems like a viable match to me.

Nephthys
Zeus is from mythology, not a game.

'1. This forum is Video Game Versus. Therefore, all characters in the match must originate in a video game - simply appearing in one is not good enough! If you are unsure if a character originates in a game, do a little research first. Wikipedia and Google are your friends!'

TheAuraAngel
Originally posted by Impediment
Why wouldn't Zeus vs Sora be allowed in the VGV? Seems like a viable match to me.

All the characters have to originate in games. It really is effective at keeping order but a lot of posters there are obviously annoyed at it. I was contemplating that this AVF would be able to rectify that, though it does pose the problem of taking attention away from the VGV and putting a strain on the mods here.

Edit: He asked ME Neph! God, why must you try to steal my thunder!? :'(

Impediment
Ah.

Well, in my opinion, if the character is actually in a video game, but is not deemed okay for the Video Game Versus, or any other versus forum on the board, then it seems like a viable match for the All Versus Forum.

After all, that's the whole point of making this proposed forum, right?

Maybe Peach and GK know something I don't.........awermm

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