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I have been reading alot about the upcomming star wars saga box set and fans have been talking about the changes. Some say they are Lucus's films and he can do what he wants with them ! Some say the Unaltered trilogy and SE are the same films. why do fans hate the unalterd version and like the SE ?

The theatrical versions are the ones fans grew up with and if it was not for them there whould be no star wars. These people call them selves true fans who dont except the Theatrical versions .

I for one whould love to see the Original Version in HD but it will never happen

True Star Wars fans are anyone who likes Star Wars in any forms.


I've never heard of someone someone liking the SE and not the original, just the other way around, but I can tell you why people'd prefer either- people like the SE because it's prettier, and a few deleted scenes. People like the unaltered because some of the deleted scenes mess with the excellent pacing, some of the alterations affect the characters a bit (Han 'criminal smuggler' Solo waiting until the guy there to kill him shoots first?), and some of the added effects are cheesy (like the circular ring of the death star boom, which doesn't make sense in any space-based explosion).

There are fans who have taken more ownership of Star Wars than they are entitled to; they are George Lucas' films, and he can re-work them to suit his vision all he wants. But that's probably the consequence of creating a phenomenon that is no so much a film series as it is a religion - and religions harbour fanatic fundamentalists.

It starts with 'Lucas bashing' websites, and one day escalates to suicide bombers at the Blu-ray/DVD launches, yelling out "Only the OT is great! Death to the SE's and the PT's!"

If you ever been asked "whats your favorite movie?"

and answered 'star wars', then your a true fan

That's easy.

I spent a lot on Star Wars...the millennium Falcon and AT-AT were particularly....cost effective

This is ridiculously narrow-minded and ignorant. People who prefer the SE's aren't true Star Wars fans? That's just stupid.

Whats SE?

Special Editions.

The re-mastered ones with extra scenes and all that jazz.

There's gonna be jazz in the Blu Ray versions????

What i am trying to say is these people over at bluray.com take SW too far

http://forum.blu-ray.com/blu-ray-movies-north-america/141915-star-wars-complete-saga-original-prequel-trilogy-september-16-2011-a-838.html

Some have been suspended or accounts terminated for good becouse the films are not out yet and the tread has gone over 800 pages!!

Sounds committed.

Slow link BTW

Ridiculous. Absolutely ridiculous.

Of course it is. True fans CARE, so if they are disappointed it shows they care.

If they don't give a hoot, then you might question their fanship. But then again, it's not a club that has membership rules.

That's obviously true. But no matter what changes Lucas makes, whether it actually enhance the movie or not, fans will hate it because he changed it.

Of course true fans care.

I think the main reason they hate it is maybe not because Lucas changes it, but also states that that is the one he wants everyone to see. He doesn't allow access anymore to the originals.

And that I think is quite pedantic of George. Heck, I just bought Once Upon a Time in the West on BD... and it has both the theatrical as well as the restored version. While the restored version is what it was always meant to be and is a better movie.

The Apocalypse Now BD box has both versions, the Alien Anthology Box has all versions... I don't understand why George is being so weird about people seeing these 'terrible terrible unvisionary' original versions that changed movie history. Coz in the end, allwe get is his latest go at his movies, and since the PT and KOTCS we all know he's not really up to scratch.

That's not entirely true. In my area, at least, they released the original theatric versions o DVD a couple years ago. But I do get what you're saying, it's almost like he's embarrassed of them, which makes no sense. He's always trying to make them better, which is ludicrous because they gained their legendary status from what they were when they came out, not from what he changed them into.

Indeed, he doesn't seem to realise that.

He released the OT on DVD in a very poor quality. Like they had some video master they dumped on DVD.
In comparison with the other DVD boxes I mentioned, there the originals are delivered in great quality. That's what makes it fun, to see what it originally looked like.

With films like the Godfather, 2001 and Apocalypse Now, in Blu-Ray you get to see these films in a quality that only the director has ever seen. Even the theatrical releases at the time had already lost quality due to copying. I'd really like to see what SW looked like as George saw it in the 70s. But with all his tampering with the colour grading he has ruined its original look and deprived us of seeing the movie that changed movie history.

Yeah, that's the version I'm referring to that was released in my area. They did nothing to it, just released it on DVD.

Now that seems like something only imagined...the OT on Blu-Ray...I would pay much money to see the OT as, how you put it, George saw it in the 70s.

Does he not realse the money he could make off of those?

I think his 'vision' stands in the way of that. I don't think money is his main motive anymore... he has enough of that.

I'm not sure about that, anymore. I swear Bill Gates had enough money years ago, yet he still charges for every possible thing he can. One can never have enough money.

Damn George's vision.

I myself can admit to being a huge Star Wars fan, but I have seen people whose love of anything Star Wars make my feelings toward the films and other propaganda pale by a large margin.

Please explain.

Personally, I think the 1997 VHS Remastered Edition of the Original Trilogy is the best one. It features a different celebration song than the original version at the end of Rotj which imo is much better.

After that it the changes start sucking. The DVD versions had Hayden Christensen as FG Anakin which was stupid. And the extra CGI made it look weird.

I agree. That 1997 edition was totally remastered (audio and video) and looked great. I would like that one on Blu ray please.

Originally posted by queeq
I agree. That 1997 edition was totally remastered (audio and video) and looked great. I would like that one on Blu ray please.

with the technology of bluray, Lucas should finish some of the other deleted scenes from the bluray (like maul and quigon on the ship ramp on tatooine and the extended light saber battle at the end. and put the original han shoots first in a deleted scene.)
Then allow the viewer to select scenes within the movie and the deleted ones to put in and take out by using a book mark type feature.

some scenes to add or delete

ep1
add maul and quigon on the ship ramp on tatooine and the extended light saber battle at the end

ep2
add anakin & padme on naboo with her family.

ep3
add a rebellion formation, and yoda landing on dagobha.

ep4
delete han not shooting first.
delete jabba at the falcon unless they can make a hologram of him.

ep5
delete vader getting on his shuttle.
and add the original voice of Boba

ep6
add luke assembling his light saber.

No need to add these scenes. Adding deleted scenes doesn't make the movie better. You can see what they were like as it is.

Originally posted by queeq
No need to add these scenes. Adding deleted scenes doesn't make the movie better. You can see what they were like as it is.
true, but with the bluray technology you could make it so you can add deleted scenes or take out others or replace some.
That's all i was trying to go for there.

I don't see the point.

Originally posted by queeq
No need to add these scenes. Adding deleted scenes doesn't make the movie better. You can see what they were like as it is.

Aliens Special Edition

Alien3 Director's cut

Blade Runner

Salem's Lot full length

Close Encounters of a Third Kind Special Edition and Director's cut

ET

Apocalypse now Redux (except that plantation scene)

Well good list. Now for the nuance:

Aliens SE - not necessarily better but certainly a lot of exciting extra stuff that was in the same the pace of the film. Not sure if it's really better or at the same level.

Alien 3 - DC: the theatrical was ravaged by the studios leaving a horrible empty shell of a film. The DC is the one Fincher was making.

BR - hardly any additional scenes in de FC. The only real addition was the unicorn - one shot. And again, the voice overs were done by the studios and very poorly as well. BR got better by REMOVING stuff. (like Alien the Director's Cut - is actually SHORTER than the theatrical)


CE3K - again: did it really get better? More extra stuff, altough in the DC they removed the interior of the space ship from the SE again

ET - the extra scene of ET in the bath didn't add much

Apocalypse Now - I still prefer the theatrical. Snappier, better pacing. Especially the plantation scene slows things down immensely.


Another good example of bringing back certain scenes (or basically an entire storyline) - Kingdom of Heaven - Extended Edition.

On the other hand: Gladiator Extended Edition is DEFINITELY not as good as the theatrical: too slow, too many unnecessary scenes although they are fascinating on its own.


So I say it again: inserting deleted scenes doesn't make the movie better... per se. In the case of SW I don't see the added value.

Well observed nuances.

I think it was better with Aliens special edition... the visit to the derelict, the backstory concerning Amada Ripley, further explaining Ripley's relationship with Newt..

A3: Yes indeed. and I definitely lobed the Fincher cut.

BR: The unicorn changed the interpretation of the ending for some. Pretty significant.

CE3K: Yeah I think it was more of a payoff for Roy after all he sacrificed (You get to understand that sacrifice better witht he post theatrical reisertion of some of the family breakdown scenes, like when the wife leaves him etc etc

ET: Im sure there were a couple of other additions too. Hell I may be wrong. Yeah the bath thing wasnt all that. But it didn't hurt the movie either.

AN: Yeah that plantation scene hurt it....if that was excluded I'd say it benefitted from the extendiness in general though.



LOTR special editions were superior too....you didnt even see what happened to Sauruman in the theatrical version of Return of the King...

I've not seen KOH, hence its non-prescence on the list.
Sad to hear of Gladiator, as I thought that ruled, and hoped that an extended would also be cool.


Star Wars scene reinsertion is tricky though.
The horror of the Jabba scene in ANH, with all that Greedo repeating dialogue (even with the better looking redo of Jabba in 2004/5) is inescapable.

Yet the Biggs death scene was greatly enhanced thanks to the reinsertion of the pre-deathstar-assault takeoff scene.

I'd like to have seen the "Luke building sabre and looks out to the X-Wing and Falcon parked" "return to the falcon and x wing in the desert" scenes put into Jedi.
I guess it must depend greatly on the content of the scene

But my point is: these scenes add very little. KOH and Alien3 are good examples where so much stuff is taken out that make the difference between good and so-so.

And don't be sorry about the Gladiator EE. Scott always said the theatrical was the DIRECTOR'S CUT. The best one. The EE just shows how it would have been with all the other scenes reinserted... it just shows Scott made the best version for the theater. Old school.

Originally posted by queeq
Well good list. Now for the nuance:

Aliens SE - not necessarily better but certainly a lot of exciting extra stuff that was in the same the pace of the film. Not sure if it's really better or at the same level.

Alien 3 - DC: the theatrical was ravaged by the studios leaving a horrible empty shell of a film. The DC is the one Fincher was making.

BR - hardly any additional scenes in de FC. The only real addition was the unicorn - one shot. And again, the voice overs were done by the studios and very poorly as well. BR got better by REMOVING stuff. (like Alien the Director's Cut - is actually SHORTER than the theatrical)


CE3K - again: did it really get better? More extra stuff, altough in the DC they removed the interior of the space ship from the SE again

ET - the extra scene of ET in the bath didn't add much

Apocalypse Now - I still prefer the theatrical. Snappier, better pacing. Especially the plantation scene slows things down immensely.


Another good example of bringing back certain scenes (or basically an entire storyline) - Kingdom of Heaven - Extended Edition.

On the other hand: Gladiator Extended Edition is DEFINITELY not as good as the theatrical: too slow, too many unnecessary scenes although they are fascinating on its own.


So I say it again: inserting deleted scenes doesn't make the movie better... per se. In the case of SW I don't see the added value.

but you would also have the option to take out certain scenes completley or replace them with something else.

Aliens SE made an already great movie even greater. the century guns added much more suspense and the addition of the colonists and ripleys connection with newt.
another example would be star trek 2 with Scotty talking about his nephew to kirk in the theatrical version it wasn't there, and you end up questioning why is scotty upset when he dies.
i'll even give a not so good movie reference, in AVP requium the beginning of the theatrical version it makes no sense and in the dvd release it does.

with star wars and the fans having different opinions of what they like and don't like why not give people the option to NOT incorporate the jabba scene in EP4 or to not have Hayden at the end of EP6 or have a shorter pod race or be able to select to have bobas original voice or the new one. the list goes on.

Giving such options is a bit silly... Buy the DVD and Blu Ray, rip it and cut it yourself...

Originally posted by queeq
Giving such options is a bit silly... Buy the DVD and Blu Ray, rip it and cut it yourself...

That is illegal! lol

that is an idea too.

For home use only of course.. then it's perfectly legal.

Originally posted by queeq
Please explain.

Collecting everything Star Wars

Toys, games, books, comics etc


i think i'm the same as Stoic when it comes to Star Wars.

You are forgiven. Shows you have a real life as well..

Only thing i get are the games, books and some of the comics.

Me too... The Making of... books are really great.