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Setting is Theed Palace.

Darth Maul waits behind the large door to confront Obi-Wan and Jinn - only to find AotC Anakin standing there, instead.

Maul shrugs and ignites his lightsaber.

1. Force

2. Sabers

3. Anything goes, kids.



Who wins this?

Personally, I'd take Maul in all three scenarios.

Maul would stomp him.

My general distain for AOTC Anakin has not diminished. He's out of his depth here imo.

The argument has successfully been made before that Anakin could best TMP Obi-Wan, and Anakin did hold out very well against Count Dooku, who is more skilled and powerful than Maul.

Plus at this stage, Anakin has powerful, developing abilities.

"Developing"' is a key word here though. Not quite yet developed to take Maul down.

Either way, it would probably be close.

Agreed.

You think Maul is a good match for Vader but it'd be close with AOTC Anakin? lol, no.

How does that contradict what I said?
Maul is a good match for Anakin in sabers, and he is a good match for Vader in sabers. In both cases he wins (save for RotS Anakin of course)

U Silly Brit

AOTC Anakin sucks chode.

You seriously underestimate Darth Vader.

Originally posted by Nephthys
AOTC Anakin sucks chode.

You seriously underestimate Darth Vader.

LOL.

Originally posted by Nephthys
You seriously underestimate Darth Vader.

Nah.
Vader will be beaten by Maul in sabers only. And it would be close.
In the force and all-out though, I have no doubt that Vader will mop the floor with the Zabrak.

No, he won't. Vader has vastly superior lightsaber feats to Maul. A few measly weeks after his mutilation and he's blitzing jedi with absurd ease. He pretty much invented his own lightsaber style. In Shadow Hunter Maul had trouble with a padawan in straight combat.

It just cracks me up that you think Vader is on the same level as AOTC Ani. No freaking way dude.

Yeah, no.

I think you underestimate Maul a bit.

And AotC Anakin is not on the same level as Vader, do not imply I said that

O RLY?



Seems like it to me.

ya, really

The thing is Vader destroys Maul easily in the force, so in all-out scenario Maul will have no chance to really threaten the Dark Lord. Only in sabers he can do that.
On the other hand AotC Anakin will lose to Maul either way.

C'mon do I really have to explain that to you?

......In lightsabers.

facepalm

Oh my....

Because Maul > AotC Anakin in sabes and Maul > Vader in sabers
it does not mean that AotC Anakin = Vader in sabers.

My opinion that Maul will win with either one of them in sabers does not make them equal in that department.

Capiche?

Originally posted by Nephthys
No, he won't. Vader has vastly superior lightsaber feats to Maul. A few measly weeks after his mutilation and he's blitzing jedi with absurd ease. He pretty much invented his own lightsaber style. In Shadow Hunter Maul had trouble with a padawan in straight combat.

You said he would be a 'good match' in both cases you troglodite. Putting them on the same level in terms of ability.

Now apologise for this awful conversation.

Originally posted by Nephthys
You said he would be a 'good match' in both cases you troglodite. Putting them on the same level in terms of ability.

Now apologise for this awful conversation.

ROLF.

lol
That is your interpretation (and a wrong one at that) you silly head.
Read my previous post. Now.

And apologise for your existence so I will attend to my daily matters now.

No room for interpretation you festering dogfvcker. Its what you said.

What previous post? Where you just said 'Maul wood wyn' without any proof? Yeah, I'll get right on that.

Hyuk Hyuk, good joke lady.

No. Insults are my new thing. Gitburger.

He used Juyo? Well thats definately enough to put him above Vader. Thats clearly as good as inventing your own style. Yup.

Why don't you give me reasons o think that Maul is better than Vader.

I think Nephthys just went Super Saiyan.

Originally posted by NowYouRemember
I think Nephthys just went Super Saiyan.


Aren't you on crack, my man?

Originally posted by axel_jovan


Aren't you on crack, my man?

That's how your mother likes it.

How.Did.You...Know?

no..um. ur mum, u silly brat

Originally posted by axel_jovan
Who did Vader beat in sabers?

Bok, Aidan - KIA - Galaxy of Fear
Brand, Empatojayos - Badly wounded - Dark Empire 2
Dark Woman (An'ya Kuro) - KIA - Star Wars Tales
Gira - Defeated in combat, commited suicide after failing to proctect Jedi children - Star Wars Tales
Shen-Jon, Echuu - KIA - Galatic Battlegrounds (VG)
Tredway, Axton - KIA - Jedi Hero
A Jedi Master on Toola - KIA - Courtship of Princess Leia
Karoc
Del Korrot
Palpatine
Saato
Trennox
Darth Vader clone
Vinoc
Axton Tredway, killed by Vader on his family's asteroid base (SW Adventure Journal)
Cin Drallig
Serra Keto
Other Jedi Masters, Knights and Padawans in the Temple
Don Quixote
He's confirmed or near confirmed killed 6 Jedi masters
and Corrupted probably 4 Knights to the Dark Side of the Force
Maimed one a Jedi Knight beyond recognition
Also known to have killed at least one rogue Dark Sider
And one Neo-Jedi in the Jenasaari's head

I'll have to look into more.

Originally posted by axel_jovan


How.Did.You...Know?

no..um. ur mum, u silly brat

Brat? I'm old enough to be your dad.

I'd be spanking you.

And yes, being an ex-crack whore, your mother likes a man with a bit of cocaine in his system.

Either I coke up, or she gets whiny, you know that.

EDIT: I'm sorry if I'm being a little mean.

But I am a little high and you do have a big mouth.

Originally posted by NowYouRemember
Bok, Aidan - KIA - Galaxy of Fear
Brand, Empatojayos - Badly wounded - Dark Empire 2
Dark Woman (An'ya Kuro) - KIA - Star Wars Tales
Gira - Defeated in combat, commited suicide after failing to proctect Jedi children - Star Wars Tales
Shen-Jon, Echuu - KIA - Galatic Battlegrounds (VG)
Tredway, Axton - KIA - Jedi Hero
A Jedi Master on Toola - KIA - Courtship of Princess Leia
Karoc
Del Korrot
Palpatine
Saato
Trennox
Darth Vader clone
Vinoc
Axton Tredway, killed by Vader on his family's asteroid base (SW Adventure Journal)
Cin Drallig
Serra Keto
Other Jedi Masters, Knights and Padawans in the Temple
Don Quixote
He's confirmed or near confirmed killed 6 Jedi masters
and Corrupted probably 4 Knights to the Dark Side of the Force
Maimed one a Jedi Knight beyond recognition
Also known to have killed at least one rogue Dark Sider
And one Neo-Jedi in the Jenasaari's head

I'll have to look into more.

Vader beat Palpatine in sabers? WTF?

Originally posted by Jinsoku Takai
Vader beat Palpatine in sabers? WTF?

Mm, yeah I'll look for more.

Most of the folks on the list were offed through saber, likely.

TFN used to have a list up with about 60 confirmed kills. And that didn't include all of the Jedi he killed at the Temple and such.

Originally posted by NowYouRemember
Don Quixote

Tilting at Sith Lords eh? Guess it didn't work out for him.

Confirmed Jedi Kills

Count Dooku (Fallen Jedi - Revenge of the Sith)
Gate Master Jurokk (Operation: Knightfall/Revenge of the Sith novel)
Jocasta Nu (Operation: Knightfall/Revenge of the Sith game)
Serra Keto (Operation: Knightfall/Revenge of the Sith game)
Cin Drallig (Operation: Knightfall/Revenge of the Sith)
1 of 3 Unidentified Younglings (Operation: Knightfall/Revenge of the Sith)
1 of 3 Unidentified Younglings (Operation: Knightfall/Revenge of the Sith)
1 of 3 Unidentified Younglings (Operation: Knightfall/Revenge of the Sith)
Bene (Operation: Knightfall/Revenge of the Sith)
Whie Malreaux (Operation: Knightfall/Revenge of the Sith)
Zabrak Jedi (Operation: Knightfall/Star Wars Rebellion: The Ahakista Gambit)
Siadem Forte (Dark Lord: The Rise of Darth Vader)
Iwo Kulka (Dark Lord: The Rise of Darth Vader)
Roan Shryne (Dark Lord: The Rise of Darth Vader)
Sia-Lan Wezz (Purge)
Shadday Potkin (Purge)
Ma'kis'shaalas (Purge)
Koffi Arana (Purge)
Tsui Choi (Purge)
Sha Koon: (Purge 2)
An'ya Kuro/The Dark Woman (Star Wars Tales)
Sardoth (Fallen Jedi - The Ahakista Gambit)
Axton Tredway (Jedi's Honor)
Kento Marek (The Force Unleashed)
Obi Wan Kenobi (A New Hope)
Echuu Shen-Jon (Star Wars: Galactic Battlegrounds: Clone Campaigns)
Sors Bandeam (Revenge of the Sith)
Aidan Bok (Galaxy of Fear: Ghost of the Jedi)
Bol Chatak (Dark Lord: The Rise of Darth Vader)
Jeswi Ele (Revenge of the Sith)
Shia Letap (Revenge of the Sith)
Dama Montalvo (Purge)
Ranik Solusar (Dark Empire II)
Morvet Storm (The Lost Jedi Adventure Game Book)
Zonder (Evasive Action)
Kento Marek's Master (The Force Unleashed)
Drakka Judarrl's master (Galaxies)
Hylon (Purge 3)
Dendro (Purge 3)

Number of Jedi Killed: 40

Notable Jedi Defeats

Brand: (Dark Empire II)
Luke Skywalker (The Empire Strikes Back)
Olee Starstone (Dark Lord: The Rise of Darth Vader
Jambe Lu (Dark Lord: The Rise of Darth Vader)
Nam Poorf (Dark Lord: The Rise of Darth Vader)
Aurra Sing (Fallen Jedi) (Coruscant Nights II: Street of Shadows)
Klossi Anno (Dark Lord: The Rise of Darth Vader)
Celeste Morne (Dark Times: Vector)
Ferus Olin (Last of the Jedi)



Notable Jedi Defeated: 9

Confirmed Dark Side Corruption

Lanu Pasiq (Evasive Action)
Tremayne (Evasive Action)
Halmere (Evasive Action)
Vost Styne (Star Wars RPG)
Halagad Ventor (Star Wars RPG)
Khayrs (Marvel Star Wars)
Flint (Marvel Star Wars)
Lumiya (Marvel Star Wars)
The Secret Apprentice (The Force Unleashed)
Hethrir (Crystal Star)

Number Corrupted to the Dark Side: 10

Non-Jedi of Note Killed

Palpatine (Return of the Jedi)
Unnamed Saarai-Kaar of the Jensaarai's son (I, Jedi)
Sa Cuis (Emperor's Hand - In His Image)
Doppleganger Darth Maul (Sith Lord Doppleganger - Resurrection)
Unnamed Inquisitor (inadvertantly killed by Vader during a bota-fueled rampage/Coruscant Nights III: Patterns of the Force)
Darth Vader clone (Galaxy of Fear: Clones)

Number of Notable Non-Jedi Killed: 7

Unconfirmed Kills


8 Apprentices and AgriCorps Jedi (Evasive Action)
Unknown number of Jedi Masters, Knights and Apprentices (Revenge of the Sith video game)
Bultar Swan (Purge)
Jastus Farr (killed by Stormtroopers while Vader distracted him/Purge)
Gira (comitted suicide after Vader ordered the destruction of a bunch of his padawan clones - This should probably count by Sith standards as Vader was the one who convinced him to do it/Tales)
Unknown Number of Padawans (see above/Tales)
Unknown Number of Jedi Masters Operation: Knightfall (Battlefront 2)
Jedi on Toola/Last Curator of Records (Only speculated to be Vader's work - The Courtship of Princess Leia)
Fy-Tor-Ana (killed when Vader had his current command, the Star Destroyer Twilight, destroy the secret Jedi asteroid base/ The Last of the Jedi: Reckoning)
Garen Muln (killed when Vader had his current command, the Star Destroyer Twilight, destroy the secret Jedi asteroid base/ The Last of the Jedi: Reckoning)
Ry-Gaul (killed when Vader had his current command, the Star Destroyer Twilight, destroy the secret Jedi asteroid base/ The Last of the Jedi: Reckoning)
Unnamed Talasea Jedi (it is mentioned those who harbored him were killed by Vader, but the specifics of the Knight's end are left vague/ X-Wing: Rogue Squadron)
Aven Rolk (Details are hazy- his location was outed, and it is stated that a force led by Vader himself went to apprehend him; the outcome is never explicitly stated, save that Rolk was later found dead/ Rebellion Era Campaign Guide)
Jedi on Halagad Ventor's List (all save Qu Rahn confirmed killed pre-Endor, though whether Vader did it or not is in question/Domain of Evil)

Originally posted by ares834
Confirmed Jedi Kills

Count Dooku (Fallen Jedi - Revenge of the Sith)
Gate Master Jurokk (Operation: Knightfall/Revenge of the Sith novel)
Jocasta Nu (Operation: Knightfall/Revenge of the Sith game)
Serra Keto (Operation: Knightfall/Revenge of the Sith game)
Cin Drallig (Operation: Knightfall/Revenge of the Sith)
1 of 3 Unidentified Younglings (Operation: Knightfall/Revenge of the Sith)
1 of 3 Unidentified Younglings (Operation: Knightfall/Revenge of the Sith)
1 of 3 Unidentified Younglings (Operation: Knightfall/Revenge of the Sith)
Bene (Operation: Knightfall/Revenge of the Sith)
Whie Malreaux (Operation: Knightfall/Revenge of the Sith)
Zabrak Jedi (Operation: Knightfall/Star Wars Rebellion: The Ahakista Gambit)
Siadem Forte (Dark Lord: The Rise of Darth Vader)
Iwo Kulka (Dark Lord: The Rise of Darth Vader)
Roan Shryne (Dark Lord: The Rise of Darth Vader)
Sia-Lan Wezz (Purge)
Shadday Potkin (Purge)
Ma'kis'shaalas (Purge)
Koffi Arana (Purge)
Tsui Choi (Purge)
Sha Koon: (Purge 2)
An'ya Kuro/The Dark Woman (Star Wars Tales)
Sardoth (Fallen Jedi - The Ahakista Gambit)
Axton Tredway (Jedi's Honor)
Kento Marek (The Force Unleashed)
Obi Wan Kenobi (A New Hope)
Echuu Shen-Jon (Star Wars: Galactic Battlegrounds: Clone Campaigns)
Sors Bandeam (Revenge of the Sith)
Aidan Bok (Galaxy of Fear: Ghost of the Jedi)
Bol Chatak (Dark Lord: The Rise of Darth Vader)
Jeswi Ele (Revenge of the Sith)
Shia Letap (Revenge of the Sith)
Dama Montalvo (Purge)
Ranik Solusar (Dark Empire II)
Morvet Storm (The Lost Jedi Adventure Game Book)
Zonder (Evasive Action)
Kento Marek's Master (The Force Unleashed)
Drakka Judarrl's master (Galaxies)
Hylon (Purge 3)
Dendro (Purge 3)

Number of Jedi Killed: 40

Notable Jedi Defeats

Brand: (Dark Empire II)
Luke Skywalker (The Empire Strikes Back)
Olee Starstone (Dark Lord: The Rise of Darth Vader
Jambe Lu (Dark Lord: The Rise of Darth Vader)
Nam Poorf (Dark Lord: The Rise of Darth Vader)
Aurra Sing (Fallen Jedi) (Coruscant Nights II: Street of Shadows)
Klossi Anno (Dark Lord: The Rise of Darth Vader)
Celeste Morne (Dark Times: Vector)
Ferus Olin (Last of the Jedi)



Notable Jedi Defeated: 9

Confirmed Dark Side Corruption

Lanu Pasiq (Evasive Action)
Tremayne (Evasive Action)
Halmere (Evasive Action)
Vost Styne (Star Wars RPG)
Halagad Ventor (Star Wars RPG)
Khayrs (Marvel Star Wars)
Flint (Marvel Star Wars)
Lumiya (Marvel Star Wars)
The Secret Apprentice (The Force Unleashed)
Hethrir (Crystal Star)

Number Corrupted to the Dark Side: 10

Non-Jedi of Note Killed

Palpatine (Return of the Jedi)
Unnamed Saarai-Kaar of the Jensaarai's son (I, Jedi)
Sa Cuis (Emperor's Hand - In His Image)
Doppleganger Darth Maul (Sith Lord Doppleganger - Resurrection)
Unnamed Inquisitor (inadvertantly killed by Vader during a bota-fueled rampage/Coruscant Nights III: Patterns of the Force)
Darth Vader clone (Galaxy of Fear: Clones)

Number of Notable Non-Jedi Killed: 7

Unconfirmed Kills


8 Apprentices and AgriCorps Jedi (Evasive Action)
Unknown number of Jedi Masters, Knights and Apprentices (Revenge of the Sith video game)
Bultar Swan (Purge)
Jastus Farr (killed by Stormtroopers while Vader distracted him/Purge)
Gira (comitted suicide after Vader ordered the destruction of a bunch of his padawan clones - This should probably count by Sith standards as Vader was the one who convinced him to do it/Tales)
Unknown Number of Padawans (see above/Tales)
Unknown Number of Jedi Masters Operation: Knightfall (Battlefront 2)
Jedi on Toola/Last Curator of Records (Only speculated to be Vader's work - The Courtship of Princess Leia)
Fy-Tor-Ana (killed when Vader had his current command, the Star Destroyer Twilight, destroy the secret Jedi asteroid base/ The Last of the Jedi: Reckoning)
Garen Muln (killed when Vader had his current command, the Star Destroyer Twilight, destroy the secret Jedi asteroid base/ The Last of the Jedi: Reckoning)
Ry-Gaul (killed when Vader had his current command, the Star Destroyer Twilight, destroy the secret Jedi asteroid base/ The Last of the Jedi: Reckoning)
Unnamed Talasea Jedi (it is mentioned those who harbored him were killed by Vader, but the specifics of the Knight's end are left vague/ X-Wing: Rogue Squadron)
Aven Rolk (Details are hazy- his location was outed, and it is stated that a force led by Vader himself went to apprehend him; the outcome is never explicitly stated, save that Rolk was later found dead/ Rebellion Era Campaign Guide)
Jedi on Halagad Ventor's List (all save Qu Rahn confirmed killed pre-Endor, though whether Vader did it or not is in question/Domain of Evil)

One thing - Vader didn't kill Bultar Swan. It's not even unconfirmed. It's a fact that some other battle enraged Jedi team member killed her because she chose NOT to deliver the killing blow to Vader after cutting off his sword arm. Other than that - Nice list.

Thanks, but I really just compiled them from other sites.

Seems like Vader's body count really trumps Maul's.

Originally posted by NowYouRemember
Thanks, but I really just compiled them from other sites.

Seems like Vader's body count really trumps Maul's.

That post was in reference to ares834's post.

Originally posted by Jinsoku Takai
One thing - Vader didn't kill Bultar Swan. It's not even unconfirmed. It's a fact that some other battle enraged Jedi team member killed her because she chose NOT to deliver the killing blow to Vader after cutting off his sword arm. Other than that - Nice list.

I just copied it from TFN so it may have a few mistakes. Also it's quite clear that Vader was faking there as he effortlessly killed the enraged Jedi afterwards.

Originally posted by Jinsoku Takai
That post was in reference to ares834's post.

Nevermind, I'm going to go pour more coffee.

Originally posted by ares834
I just copied it from TFN so it may have a few mistakes. Also it's quite clear that Vader was faking there as he effortlessly killed the enraged Jedi afterwards.

Not to get too far off subject, but no way was Vader "faking there" as he was at Swan's mercy (without a sword arm mind you). Because he trashed the idiot who betrayed Swan means absolutely nothing. Swan =/= the idiot Jedi traitor.

Originally posted by Jinsoku Takai
Not to get too far off subject, but no way was Vader "faking there" as he was at Swan's mercy (without a sword arm mind you). Because he trashed the idiot who betrayed Swan means absolutely nothing. Swan =/= the idiot Jedi traitor.
Eh no. He was clearly faking. Notice how he is pleading for his life here yet when the Jedi truly gain an advantage (the end of the comic) he refuses to give in. And yes, the fact that he trashed the other Jedi does mean something as it shows he was far from defeated.

He simply waited for a distraction (the slaying of Bultar Swan) so that he would have an opportunity to strike. Had Swan chosen to deliver the killing strike, it would have been over. Swan was a very skilled Jedi and could give Vader enough trouble on her own. Once she was eliminated, the other Jedi were screwed.

Originally posted by Jinsoku Takai
He simply waited for a distraction (the slaying of Bultar Swan) so that he would have an opportunity to strike. Had Swan chosen to deliver the killing strike, it would have been over. Swan was a very skilled Jedi and could give Vader enough trouble on her own. Once she was eliminated, the other Jedi were screwed.

Where are you getting this nonsesne? First, where the idea that Swan could have even had a killing stroke come from? When we have the panel with Vader saying "I surrender!" Swan seems to be some distance off, furthermore in the time it took the other Jedi to charge the same distance Vader managed to kill him with the sword/arm. Second, where do you get the idea that Swan could give Vader trouble on her own? All she did was somewhat damage his leg after his back was slightly damaged and his hand was cut off. And finally, where does the wonrg idea that the other Jedi were crewed come from? Hell those "other Jedi" gain an advantage over Vader once Swan is dead.

"In my point of view the Jedi are evil!"
"Well then you are lost!"
from ROTS.

I'm sorry I know this quote is lame but it just popped up in my mind when you (axel jovan in pg.2) said that. What I found was more fitting is the fact your avatar is Obi-Wan-Kenobi.

Back on subject,

Considering Darth Maul would've defeated Darth Vader, if it wasn't for his cockiness, and that he would've defeated Obi-Wan-Kenobi and Qui-Gonn-Jinn, I'd say he win.

I state this simply because I don't think AotC Anakin could even attempt at trying to beat Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan. And I know some people would say, "If what you say is true, then how come AotC Anakin was able to hold off Dooku when Maul would probably be toyed around with?".

The answer is simply emotion, Anakin probably didn't want to see another of his "fatherly" like mentors to die (since Anakin had more emotional attachment than other padawans). So he unleashed his emotion into the fight, which made him fight with more intensity, (which Dooku probably hadn't anticipated) this allowed him to NOT be totally thrashed and dominated to a superior Dooku.

Maul wouldn't utterly and entirely trash Anakin. AotC Anakin has more raw power than TPM Kenobi did, and isn't exactly lacking in technical skill. Maul would win, but it's not going to be a WTFOMFG stomp.

Originally posted by lord starkiller
do not talk to Nephthys
like that you bastardo and maul is GAYYYYY but in the way where he can not even get guys. while vader scores biiiitches so case closed

Bastardo? That's a new one...

Originally posted by lord starkiller
do not talk to Nephthys
like that you bastardo and maul is GAYYYYY but in the way where he can not even get guys. while vader scores biiiitches so case closed Hilarious.

Originally posted by Korto Vos
Bastardo? That's a new one... I heard it in titanic so i used it and it is much better anyways

I heard it on Everybody Loves Raymond.

Don't you just love our superior America television shows?

Originally posted by RE: Blaxican
Don't you just love our superior America television shows? when you say "America" do you mean south or north. Our tv sucks except for history, spike and discovery.

No, by "America" he means reality TV, Glee, and Anderson Cooper.

Anderson Cooper + TJ Holmes = Good Media

well our tv still sucks

Originally posted by lord starkiller
well our tv still sucks

"Shiiiiiiiiiiiittt!"

Have you seen...

...THE WIRE ?


Watch that and you'll understand that TV doesn't "suck"...well you might think it'll "suck" even more because how damn good that show is and how everything else is below it.

It's our President's favorite TV show as well.

I'd say Lost has The Wire beat, personally.

Originally posted by Blick Winkel
I'd say Lost has The Wire beat, personally.


I respectfully disagree to the nth level.


Where do you find Lost to be superior to the Wire? I agree that Lost was very entertaining. However, once you got into the Wire, it was like a damn well-written novel that you couldn't put down.

It's a tragedy that reaches Shakespearean heights in the third and fourth seasons. The show is even taught at certain colleges due to the number of themes found in the sitcom. And the acting was phenomenal.

You type in the "best TV show of the decade" and almost all of them will have The Wire either at #1 or very close to it.

Major Lost spoilers:

Well they're two very different kinds of shows that will appeal to different tastes and don't make for an immediately easy comparison; while I would perhaps agree that The Wire is possessive of a greater level of acting, writing, and directing, Lost is inarguably the more groundbreaking and differentiated piece of television. Where The Wire, while remarkably executed, tells the story of a rather typical realistic crime drama/mystery, Lost is otherwordly in its originality and tells a story unlike anything we've ever seen before.

From its setting of a mysterious tropical island filled with smoke monsters, polar bears, mysterious hatches, the numbers, where pregnant women mysteriously die and people miraculously heal, to its characters from the lottery winning Hurley who after such a singular moment of good luck is faced with nothing but bad luck, to the cripple John Locke who crashes on the island and regains the ability to walk, to in Sawyer a man consumed by a quest of revenge that in the process becomes the man he's after and goes to take on his name, every single element of the show was faced with an abundance of originality.

The show's format of an episode-by-episode exploration of both the present time on the island and a seperate time away from the island, and the manner with which it told a single character story through both timelines while incorporating the underlying theme of the show of redemption into the development of the character in the single episode was so innovative and effective that it's likely numerous shows would have followed the same format since if it wasn't so strongly identifiable with Lost. It benefited the ensemble cast of characters incredibly, providing a forced collective emphasis that in other shows may have been ignored and forgotten, and provides what is quite simply the greatest collective character development in television history. It incorporated the primary theme of the show in an incredibly prevalent manner, where it was literally reflected in every single episode. And where it started by simply focusing on the past, the format allowed the writers to switch it up throughout the show's run, from the past to the future to alternate timelines and even the afterlife, allowing them to deceive and trick the viewer, with one particular incident in the season three finale which is probably going down as the single greatest plot twist and one of the finest single episodes of a TV show ever, where we're lead to believe that we're witnessing a flashback as we view the on-island story where the question remains as to whether they'll ever leave the island, only for it to soon be revealed that we're witnessing a flashforward and that they did indeed at some point leave the island.

Beyond its sheer originality the show was incredibly compelling and had a huge emphasis on both drama and mystery, notorious in the latter catagory, with subject matter that explores science/magic/psychology/philosophy which has great comprehensive appeal; the characters and their backstories were incredibly dark and complex, the show detailed a very thorough and complex mythology, and the journey that the characters took, while being incredibly outlandish, was also an incredibly meaningful and poetic journey of friendship and communion.

As I said, in general execution, The Wire is arguably the better show. In even that however, I would say that single acting performances in Lost, such as Terry O'Quinn's potrayal of John Locke and The Smoke Monster, or Michael Emerson's incredible depiction of Benjamin Linus, or even some incredibly powerful performances from some of the supporting cast such as Alan Dale's Charles Widmore, John Terry's Christian Shephard, and Kevin Tighe as Anthony Copper, surpassed those seen in The Wire. I feel that Lost's music was a lot better; both its original compositions (I believe this is all that needs to be linked to: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s5ETlShWQ_g) and its use of preexisting music (Cass Elliot's Make Your Own Kind of Music a great example), and how they were used to add to the power and drama of the show. Lost also had more in the ways of special and visual effects to create grand and powerful imagery. I also found some of Lost's dialogue to be more memorable and quote worthy, from "If we don't learn to live together, we're going to die alone" to Locke's "Don't tell me what I can't do!".

Lost to me was ultimately the more profound, emotional, memorable, mind boggling and original TV show.

wtf

fvck you

No, I agree with you. Its just..... wow.

I have that effect on many a man.

and trujedi.

Meh, truejedi's a slvt anyway.

you wud know.

Originally posted by Blick Winkel
Major Lost spoilers:

Well they're two very different kinds of shows that will appeal to different tastes and don't make for an immediately easy comparison; while I would perhaps agree that The Wire is possessive of a greater level of acting, writing, and directing, Lost is inarguably the more groundbreaking and differentiated piece of television. Where The Wire, while remarkably executed, tells the story of a rather typical realistic crime drama/mystery, Lost is otherwordly in its originality and tells a story unlike anything we've ever seen before.

From its setting of a mysterious tropical island filled with smoke monsters, polar bears, mysterious hatches, the numbers, where pregnant women mysteriously die and people miraculously heal, to its characters from the lottery winning Hurley who after such a singular moment of good luck is faced with nothing but bad luck, to the cripple John Locke who crashes on the island and regains the ability to walk, to in Sawyer a man consumed by a quest of revenge that in the process becomes the man he's after and goes to take on his name, every single element of the show was faced with an abundance of originality.

The show's format of an episode-by-episode exploration of both the present time on the island and a seperate time away from the island, and the manner with which it told a single character story through both timelines while incorporating the underlying theme of the show of redemption into the development of the character in the single episode was so innovative and effective that it's likely numerous shows would have followed the same format since if it wasn't so strongly identifiable with Lost. It benefited the ensemble cast of characters incredibly, providing a forced collective emphasis that in other shows may have been ignored and forgotten, and provides what is quite simply the greatest collective character development in television history. It incorporated the primary theme of the show in an incredibly prevalent manner, where it was literally reflected in every single episode. And where it started by simply focusing on the past, the format allowed the writers to switch it up throughout the show's run, from the past to the future to alternate timelines and even the afterlife, allowing them to deceive and trick the viewer, with one particular incident in the season three finale which is probably going down as the single greatest plot twist and one of the finest single episodes of a TV show ever, where we're lead to believe that we're witnessing a flashback as we view the on-island story where the question remains as to whether they'll ever leave the island, only for it to soon be revealed that we're witnessing a flashforward and that they did indeed at some point leave the island.

Beyond its sheer originality the show was incredibly compelling and had a huge emphasis on both drama and mystery, notorious in the latter catagory, with subject matter that explores science/magic/psychology/philosophy which has great comprehensive appeal; the characters and their backstories were incredibly dark and complex, the show detailed a very thorough and complex mythology, and the journey that the characters took, while being incredibly outlandish, was also an incredibly meaningful and poetic journey of friendship and communion.

As I said, in general execution, The Wire is arguably the better show. In even that however, I would say that single acting performances in Lost, such as Terry O'Quinn's potrayal of John Locke and The Smoke Monster, or Michael Emerson's incredible depiction of Benjamin Linus, or even some incredibly powerful performances from some of the supporting cast such as Alan Dale's Charles Widmore, John Terry's Christian Shephard, and Kevin Tighe as Anthony Copper, surpassed those seen in The Wire. I feel that Lost's music was a lot better; both its original compositions (I believe this is all that needs to be linked to: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s5ETlShWQ_g) and its use of preexisting music (Cass Elliot's Make Your Own Kind of Music a great example), and how they were used to add to the power and drama of the show. Lost also had more in the ways of special and visual effects to create grand and powerful imagery. I also found some of Lost's dialogue to be more memorable and quote worthy, from "If we don't learn to live together, we're going to die alone" to Locke's "Don't tell me what I can't do!".

Lost to me was ultimately the more profound, emotional, memorable, mind boggling and original TV show.


Hmm, this is a nice analysis. I agree that Lost was a brilliant show. I disagree on a few points, however:

1. "rather typical realistic crime drama/mystery."

I don't find it to be simply a "typical realistic crime drama/mystery" whatsoever. The show delves into the illegal drug trade, the seaport system, politics and the city government, and the media. The crime and drug trade form a general foundation for the show, but The Wire moves far beyond that.

David Simon, the creator, stated: " is really about the American city, and about how we live together. It's about how institutions have an effect on individuals. Whether one is a cop, a longshoreman, a drug dealer, a politician, a judge or a lawyer, all are ultimately compromised and must contend with whatever institution they are committed to."

What made this sitcom brilliant was how all of those individuals and variant facets of Baltimore connected together.

2. The Wire was "groundbreaking" for its off-the-charts amount of realism- everything about it was 'raw', and you never felt any Hollywood-esque elements present. The story wasn't episodic, but rather was one great novel visualized on screen.

3. The characters, and the acting of those characters, were easily as compelling if not more engrossing than those in Lost.

Omar Little, Bunk, Bubbles, McNulty, Lester Freamon, Prez, Slim Charles, the list goes on and on.

4. The Wire doesn't have an score. That's what adds to its realism. It employs sources cues occasionally.

5. Both shows are masterpieces of American television. You selected a show worthy of its praise, and didn't say something like, "American Idol is zOMG teh winz! Wire iz boring!!!!!11111"

Originally posted by Blick Winkel
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s5ETlShWQ_g

Actually replace that with this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WetJOa4hTrQ&feature=related

Haha no problem, I thought for a second you may have considered it to be a sitcom.

That would just contradict everything I just said if I saw it as a sitcom.

I almost forgot how faaaar things could go off-topic here.

Is it okay if, instead of a point by point analysis of your post regarding the television programs "The Wire," a crime procedural, and "LOST," a well-known science fiction character study, I content myself with ridiculing you, through both content and format, for your syntactical idiosyncrasies?

Originally posted by Blick Winkel
I'd say Lost has The Wire beat, personally.

Semicolons, son.

Apparently a semicolon is all you have left after prison time.