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The IB gets to restored to full strength after each successful battle...

Battle takes place inside the one place where the IB is at his strongest; the center of a black hole...how far does the IB make it?


1) Thanos...
2) Thanos + Depowered Tyrant...
3) Thanos + Depowered Tyrant + Odin...
4) Thanos + Depowered Tyrant + Odin + Demogorge...
5) Thanos + Depowered Tyrant + Odin + Demogorge + Korvac...
6) Thanos + Depowered Tyrant + Odin + Demogorge + Korvac + Arishem...
7) Thanos + Depowered Tyrant + Odin + Demogorge + Korvac + Arishem + Galactus...
8) Thanos + Depowered Tyrant + Odin + Demogorge + Korvac + Arishem + Galactus + Abraxas...


So once again, where does the IB (at his peak strength) stop?

7

No joke, he destroys them all. Back when he fought Galactus the first time, there were supposedly no alternate reality versions of Galacuts or an 'anti-Galactus' type being.

Now we have Abraxas, alternate reality versions of Galactus, etc...

IB just summons everyone's opposite and that's it. He can outright FORCE Death to take : Thanos, Tyrant, Odin, Demogorge, Korvac, Arshiem, Galactus and Abraxas. It's not like he hasn't forced her to do something against her will and break her contract with the Elders on panel before.

He either plays with them by summoning their opposite or forces Death to take them.

Abraxas isn't Galactus's opposite.

Lol at forcing Death to take them.

Given Galactus's nature, you really think the IB could force her to take him?

Afterall, when the IB attempted to destroy Galactus while he was in a coma, the IB stated it couldnt be done because there was no counter force...or something to that effect...pertaining to Galactus; and this was right before he summons Death to take the Elders that were present.

I would think if he could have forced Death to take Galactus, he would have done so right then and there...

I doubt Death would be able to take Abraxas either considering his level of power.

Galactus would suffice

IB is not beating Abraxas at all, even one on one.

We KNOW he can force Death to do his bidding. It's been shown on panel. So that's not even debatable.

Abraxas would go down too. If not by Death's hand, then by summoning his opposite.

Originally posted by celestialdemon
IB is not beating Abraxas at all, even one on one.

What could Abraxas do to the IB? Abraxas' great scheme was to use the UN to wreck havoc on reality.

IB exists everywhere and NOWHERE. The UN wouldn't do anything against him and that was Abraxas' trump card. What's to stop IB from summoning Abraxas' opposite and annihilating him on the spot?

Originally posted by zopzop
We KNOW he can force Death to do his bidding. It's been shown on panel. So that's not even debatable.

Abraxas would go down too. If not by Death's hand, then by summoning his opposite. What's his opposite?

Anyway, Galactus or Abraxas solo.

Originally posted by zopzop
What could Abraxas do to the IB? Abraxas' great scheme was to use the UN to wreck havoc on reality.

IB exists everywhere and NOWHERE. The UN wouldn't do anything against him and that was Abraxas' trump card. What's to stop IB from summoning Abraxas' opposite and annihilating him on the spot?

And you know the UN wouldn't do anything to IB how? Where's the proof?

Abraxas is the embodiment of destruction. What opposite could be summoned to annihilate him?

right, even if IB brought etenrity to tackle the UN or abraxas, he'd obviously fail

Originally posted by zopzop
We KNOW he can force Death to do his bidding. It's been shown on panel. So that's not even debatable.

Abraxas would go down too. If not by Death's hand, then by summoning his opposite.

I don't agree with this the elders were immortal cant die so he did what his power allowed him to do to summon the opposite the one power that could negate them death.I saw nothing to say he could just summon death and set her/him against anyone he choose.What he did fell in line with how his powers operate.

Originally posted by Mindset
What's his opposite?

Anyway, Galactus or Abraxas solo.

Galactus tried to solo the IB, he failed. Abraxas isn't doing jack to the IB either. Abraxas didn't do squat except threaten the universe/multiverse because of the UN.

Originally posted by celestialdemon
And you know the UN wouldn't do anything to IB how? Where's the proof?

Abraxas is the embodiment of destruction. What opposite could be summoned to annihilate him?

How could the UN nullify something that both exists AND doesn't exist?
http://img225.imageshack.us/img225/6778/silversurferv301702.th.jpg

Originally posted by zopzop
Galactus tried to solo the IB, he failed. Abraxas isn't doing jack to the IB either. Abraxas didn't do squat except threaten the universe/multiverse because of the UN. Galactus has gotten stronger, portrayal wise, since his fight with IB, has IB? Abraxas killed other Galactus, was stronger than 616 Galactus, and Eternity asked for help in stopping him.

Abraxas > IB

Originally posted by Mindset
Galactus has gotten stronger, portrayal wise, since his fight with IB, has IB? Abraxas killed other Galactus, was stronger than 616 Galactus, and Eternity asked for help in stopping him.

Abraxas > IB

Yet he DID NOTHING universal in scale except attempt to destroy it using the UN! He killed the "other" Galactus' off panel, we don't know what level of hunger/power level they were at. If he really was stronger than 616 Galactus why couldn't he overpower 616 Galactus' attempt to get the UN back?

The very fact that Marvel now acknowledges that "other" Galactus' exist means he dies instantly vs the IB. Since his whole shtick in their first fight was "being unique in this or any other universe".

IB > Abraxas.

Originally posted by zopzop
How could the UN nullify something that both exists AND doesn't exist?
http://img225.imageshack.us/img225/6778/silversurferv301702.th.jpg

Yet he gets slapped around by Order and Chaos and struggled to put down Galactus. Obviously they had no problem touching him.

Originally posted by celestialdemon
Yet he gets slapped around by Order and Chaos and struggled to put down Galactus. Obviously they had no problem touching him.

Order and Chaos created him! Of course they are going to own him. I don't see Order or Chaos on the OP's list do you?

He "struggled" to put down Galactus because back then supposedly Galactus had no opposite for IB to summon to insta-pwn him.

He was still beating Galactus, in Galactus' home turf where according to Galactus "Each of us are near-omnipotent in our home realms, and we are in mine!" So even with home field advantage, Galactus would have lost if Surfer/Nova/the Elders/Reed and Sue didn't step in to save him.

I thought the IB couldnt summon Galactus's opposite because he was Galactus's opposite; The Inbetweener represents all opposites and Galactus represented the abscene of all opposites...

That is if I remember correctly...

Yup that is correct, LoM. But as we all know now, Galactus is not unique "in this or any other universe" there are lots and lots of alternate universe Galactus'.

IB summons one, Galactus dies. Fights over.

Originally posted by zopzop
Yup that is correct, LoM. But as we all know now, Galactus is not unique "in this or any other universe" there are lots and lots of alternate universe Galactus'.

IB summons one, Galactus dies. Fights over. which is utterly irrelevant to Galactu's standing as a being of no opposites created by neither death nor eternity and standing between them, which is what makes him immune

Originally posted by zopzop
Order and Chaos created him! Of course they are going to own him. I don't see Order or Chaos on the OP's list do you?

He "struggled" to put down Galactus because back then supposedly Galactus had no opposite for IB to summon to insta-pwn him.

He was still beating Galactus, in Galactus' home turf where according to Galactus "Each of us are near-omnipotent in our home realms, and we are in mine!" So even with home field advantage, Galactus would have lost if Surfer/Nova/the Elders/Reed and Sue didn't step in to save him.

I know they created him. The point is the IB is obviously incorrect in his statement or else two abstract beings (regardless of being his creator) wouldn't be able to do anything to him. Neither would Galactus be able to hurt him at all, much less give him a good fight.

Who would IB summon against Abraxas?

Originally posted by 753
which is utterly irrelevant to Galactu's standing as a being of no opposites created by neither death nor eternity and standing between them, which is what makes him immune

No. If you read the issue, what made him immune was him being "unique in this or any other universe" this is now outright FALSE. He dies.

http://img823.imageshack.us/img823/2246/silversurferv301713.th.jpg

Originally posted by celestialdemon
I know they created him. The point is the IB is obviously incorrect in his statement or else two abstract beings (regardless of being his creator) wouldn't be able to do anything to him. Neither would Galactus be able to hurt him at all, much less give him a good fight.

Who would IB summon against Abraxas?

Good grief, his MASTERS were apparently smart enough to make him vulnerable to their power.

The whole Galactus gave him a fight thing was only because Galactus was supposedly "unique in this or any other universe" (look at the scan I provided), this is now FALSE. We've seen dozens of alternate universe versions of Galactus. IB summons one, Galactus dies.

Who would IB summon vs Abraxas? Good question. Another Good question would be what could Abraxas do vs the IB? At worst, it's a stalemate. But seeing how petrified Abraxas was when Galactus stole the UN from him....

@zopzop

Wouldnt the IB have to summon another IB to neutralize Galactus? Afterall, an alternate reality Galactus wouldnt be the opposite of Galactus; they'd both represent no opposites and essentially be the same being...

I'm not sure if the IB could summon up another IB to fight for him; if he could he could just get an infinite army of IB's together and "wtfomfgbbq-sauce" own all of reality...

LoM, I'm just going by what was said on panel. The reason why he couldn't insta-pwn him was because Galactus was "unique in this or any other universe." We now KNOW as a fact that this is FALSE. There are alternate universe versions of Galactus.

Apparently at the time of their first fight, this was true. It's now no longer true. Galactus dies instantly.

But who is the IB going to summon to kill him? Logically it cant be another Galactus as he is not his own opposite...the IB is.

Unless the IB is cancelling out the Big-G himself (or summoning up another IB), there is no one else to call upon...

Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
But who is the IB going to summon to kill him? Logically it cant be another Galactus as he is not his own opposite...the IB is.

Unless the IB is cancelling out the Big-G himself (or summoning up another IB), there is no one else to call upon...

We have to figure out what "opposite" means. For example, when the LT was giving his little speech to the Silver Surfer, he broke down the functions of his triple faces as :

In "our" reality : Death, Galactus, Eternity
In "the realm of the Vishanti : Chaos, IB, Order

Going by that it looks as if IB is Galactus' opposite seeing has how they perform similar functions. Galactus is the balancing force between Death and Eternity as IB is the balancing force between Order and Chaos. But this is only in their respective universes. And IB is more than just the balancing force between Order and Chaos, he represents ALL dualities (as stated on panel).

You wouldn't say Order is Death's opposite or Chaos is Eternity's opposite would you?

Originally posted by zopzop
Good grief, his MASTERS were apparently smart enough to make him vulnerable to their power.

The whole Galactus gave him a fight thing was only because Galactus was supposedly "unique in this or any other universe" (look at the scan I provided), this is now FALSE. We've seen dozens of alternate universe versions of Galactus. IB summons one, Galactus dies.

Who would IB summon vs Abraxas? Good question. Another Good question would be what could Abraxas do vs the IB? At worst, it's a stalemate. But seeing how petrified Abraxas was when Galactus stole the UN from him....

So how is it that Order and Chaos can make the IB immune to a power that would destroy even them?

How would the IB be able to summon a Galactus against another Galactus?

Originally posted by celestialdemon
So how is it that Order and Chaos can make the IB immune to a power that would destroy even them?

How would the IB be able to summon a Galactus against another Galactus?

How did the IB summon Death, an abstract even more powerful than his masters, and FORCE her against her will to kill the Elders that she made a vow NEVER to take?

Originally posted by zopzop
How did the IB summon Death, an abstract even more powerful than his masters, and FORCE her against her will to kill the Elders that she made a vow NEVER to take?

Good question. Would he be able to do it again? A lot has changed since then.

Originally posted by celestialdemon
Good question. Would he be able to do it again? A lot has changed since then.

Actually you may be correct. I do remember this incident was referenced again during the Thanos Quest story (the one where he was collecting the Soul Gems). IB admitted that he could protect Thanos from Death and she wouldn't be able to harm him.

the inbetweener's got the shittiest name ever.

Originally posted by shokosugi
the inbetweener's got the shittiest name ever.

Its almost as bad as superman :P

Originally posted by zopzop
What could Abraxas do to the IB? Abraxas' great scheme was to use the UN to wreck havoc on reality.

IB exists everywhere and NOWHERE. The UN wouldn't do anything against him and that was Abraxas' trump card. What's to stop IB from summoning Abraxas' opposite and annihilating him on the spot?

No, Abraxas never intended to use the Ultimate Nullifier. You're wrong as usual, read the last panel.

In-Betweener stops at two, tops.

In-Betweener is mid-herald at best; Thanos puts him to sleep.

I like you, Simbon.

shameless plug

new series with the in-betweener soon

wasn't the in-betweener split in half by scorpio

hmm

Originally posted by Simbon
In-Betweener is mid-herald at best; Thanos puts him to sleep.

You realize that the IB was trapped in the Nexus of Realities where all dualities were in perfect balance and his powers didn't work there. That was his punishment for disobeying Order/Chaos.

Originally posted by TheTyrant
No, Abraxas never intended to use the Ultimate Nullifier. You're wrong as usual, read the last panel.

In-Betweener stops at two, tops.

Then why steal it? He didn't do jack on a universal scale in terms of destruction. What was the point of him taking it then?

Originally posted by Simbon
In-Betweener is mid-herald at best; Thanos puts him to sleep.

Don't forget Dr Strange humbled him too
Hes obviously not strong enough to take Galactus anymore

Originally posted by SasuOna
Don't forget Dr Strange humbled him too
Hes obviously not strong enough to take Galactus anymore

The Strange fight was in the 60s-70s. The Galactus fight was in the late 80s

Thanos never beat IB, he beat a DEPOWERED IB :
http://img814.imageshack.us/img814/7516/thanosquest119.th.jpg

Both of you seem not to have noticed my lack of seriousness. I guess that's what happens when you think Odin can beat Galactus -- all your perceptions just spin hopelessly out of control.

Originally posted by Simbon
Both of you seem not to have noticed my lack of seriousness. I guess that's what happens when you think Odin can beat Galactus -- all your perceptions just spin hopelessly out of control.

Why don't you wait 2 more weeks then we'll see who is laughing? After Odin pushes Galactus' s..t in!

Originally posted by mykke
Its almost as bad as superman :P

Or "mykke"

Originally posted by zopzop

Then why steal it?

Abraxas didn't do jack on a universal scale in terms of destruction.

What was the point of him taking it then?
First: Abraxas destroyed plenty or entire Universes just with his presence.

Second: Abraxas stole the UN, so no one else could use it on him,
being UN scale influence was his only weakness.

Third: Abraxas had the totality of Eternity 616 (nicknamed "multi-eternity) afraid & powerless,
in fact, Eternity's totality went seeking for help.


Abraxas ... his purpose is to destroy the Omniverse:

http://s2d1.turboimagehost.com/t/792375_Et.jpg

"ALL That Ever Was, Ever Is, or Ever Will Be"

................................................................................................................


Franklin says about the Omniversal Guardian:

http://s2d1.turboimagehost.com/t/792415_Ab1.jpg

"That's Roma, she's gonna help us fight the dark man" (Abraxas)

................................................................................................................


Roma (Omniversal Guardian) makes it clear:

http://s2d1.turboimagehost.com/t/792417_Ab2.jpg

"And if we do not act soon ... All of Time will be lost to us"


Abraxas is a Multiversal power of Omniversal significance.

................................................................................................................


Here are Nine Universes that would later be destroyed by Abraxas:


http://s2d1.turboimagehost.com/t/792418_Ab3.jpg

http://s2d1.turboimagehost.com/t/792419_Ab4.jpg

http://s2d1.turboimagehost.com/t/792420_Ab5.jpg

"Imagine each of those Worlds like sand in an hourglass ...
an hourglass which Abraxas will shatter"

................................................................................................................


This is aside from all these UniverseS Abraxas collapsed:


http://s2d1.turboimagehost.com/t/792446_Ab1.jpg

................................................................................................................


Meh,

And Abraxas only needs to approach UniverseS to collapse them:
(he doesn't even need to attack or enter said Realities)

(the Multiverse in fact)

http://s2d1.turboimagehost.com/t/792447_Ab2.jpg

"creatures of the Multiverse Mixing --- Reality folding onto itself

This ... is what brings Abraxas" (like I said, just by approaching)


......................................................................................

......................................................................................


Here are some Bio excerpts to confirm my posts which only contain the On Panel evidence:


(reference-Official Marvel Handbook 2006 - Abraxas bio)

......................................................................................


How Abraxas folds/collapses Universes:

http://s2d1.turboimagehost.com/t/792504_Ab1.jpg

"While Abraxas drew near,
the walls of dimensional space began to blur" (fold/collapse)

It goes on to explain the ramifications of Abraxas approaching Realities.

......................................................................................


We shouldn't be surprised ... it's his Job:

http://s2d1.turboimagehost.com/t/792505_Ab2.jpg

Occupation: "Dimensional Destroyer"

......................................................................................


Evidently, only a power UN-like can defeat Abraxas:

http://s2d1.turboimagehost.com/t/792506_Ab3.jpg

"Realizing the danger Abraxas posed,
the FF went on a Dimension-hopping journey to recover the UN,
the One weapon that could destroy him"

......................................................................................


Indeed, Roma (Omniversal Guardian) stated the same thing On Panel:

http://s2d1.turboimagehost.com/t/792507_Ab4.jpg

Roma: "It will be a weapon of unimaginable power that will WIN This day"

......................................................................................


Here Galactus says it, and Reed realizes this truth:

http://s2d1.turboimagehost.com/t/792508_Ab5.jpg

Galactus: "But This Time, This Day can end ONLY one way"

Reed: "Yes .... God help me, I can see that now"

......................................................................................

......................................................................................


AB - FF Ultimate Guide bio:

Restructuring Reality is nothing to Abraxas!

http://s2d1.turboimagehost.com/t/792539_Ab6.jpg

"He can restructure matter and convert physical matter into pure energy ...
he has destroyed entire PLANES of Reality"




http://s2d1.turboimagehost.com/t/792403_Ab.jpg

"We're dealing with a being of Godlike powers, BENDING Reality means nothing to him"

Lot's of those scans make zero sense. Why go dimension hopping for the UN? It's not unique to the multiverse. Each universes Galactus seems to have one.

For example, during the Black Celestial Arc, they got the UN from the Galactus of that timeline. They didn't need to go back to 616 reality and get their hands on it. We've seen alternate reality UNs all the time. Korvac used one to wipe out a universe with his cosmic awareness and it was referenced in handbooks despite being from a What If.

Secondly, Roma is a joke. The freaking ADVERSARY, an X-men villain, has owned her like a cheap whore until Forge saved her.

Thirdly how could a being that can bend reality on a whim be unable to keep the UN from Galactus' hands? Why would he even need to fear it? Why not pick up an alternate reality version of the Nullifier?
Furthermore, a NON multiversal/omniveral threat like Maelstrom successfully kept the UN from Galactus and Galactus was helpless to get it back.

I still dont' see universal level power levels from Abraxas in any of those scans. Making a Watcher get amnesia and killing alternate reality Galactus' (we don't even know what level of hunger they were at) isn't all that impressive.

Originally posted by zopzop

Lot's of those scans make zero sense.

Originally posted by zopzop

Why go dimension hopping for the UN? It's not unique to the multiverse.
The 616 UN, like everything else of 616 in comparison with alternate realities,
is unique to the Multiverse.
Originally posted by zopzop

Each universes Galactus seems to have one.
But only the 616 UN was Abraxas' weakness evidently.

Or did you miss this?

http://s2d1.turboimagehost.com/t/792506_Ab3.jpg

"the UN,
the ONE weapon that could destroy him"
Originally posted by zopzop

For example, during the Black Celestial Arc, they got the UN from the Galactus of that timeline. They didn't need to go back to 616 reality and get their hands on it.
The Galactus of that Timeline was 616 Galactus 15 years in the future.

That aside though, it makes no difference, it was Abraxas that needed to be nullified,
and to do so, the 616 UN was what was necessary.
Originally posted by zopzop

We've seen alternate reality UNs all the time.
And only one has been a threat to, or performed feats against Abraxas scale powers.
Originally posted by zopzop

Korvac used one to wipe out a universe with his cosmic awareness and it was referenced in handbooks despite being from a What If.
Yea, that was an aspect of Eternity's consciousness (reality 82432)

What was needed here was action against Abraxas, a being who scared ALL of Eternity.

Heck, in the Abraxas arc,
nullifying Abraxas resulted in the complete remaking of 616 Eternity's total consciousness (the multiverse)
although I'd say all creation was remade.

Originally posted by zopzop

Secondly, Roma is a joke. The freaking ADVERSARY, an X-men villain, has owned her like a cheap whore until Forge saved her.
Unfortunately Roma is written badly sometimes, but Roma is quite powerful in her right,
I have scans of her resurrecting people who have died by simply
reaching into the past and plucking them out and into the present with a gesture.

That side,
she owns tech created by matrix/Merlyn
that could wipe out any reality in the Omniverse with the turn of a key.

Her Starlight Citadel is an simultaneous observational point of the entire Omniverse,
it too itself can destroy entire Universes.

Her thing is more of status as Omniversal guarian, she relies on her tech for cosmic scale effects.
Originally posted by zopzop



1. Thirdly how could a being that can bend reality on a whim be unable to keep the UN from Galactus' hands?

2. Why would he even need to fear it?

3. Why not pick up an alternate reality version of the Nullifier?
1. I think it was explained clearly in the scene:

http://s3d4.turboimagehost.com/t/8050674_G.jpg

2. Because it's the ONE weapon that can destroy him, as the story/evidence proved.

3. Apparntly only the 616 UN (the original real deal) was his only weakness.

Originally posted by zopzop

Furthermore, a NON multiversal/omniveral threat like Maelstrom successfully kept the UN from Galactus and Galactus was helpless to get it back.
That so called "non-multiversal/omniversal" threat nearly took out all of creation.

Maelstrom killed the embodiment of an abstract concept,
in some unexplained way avoided the affect of the IG,
and created a black hole that with time would've swallowed 616 and all existence with it.

Case & point,
the Galactus/UN connection was not established until years later in the Abraxas arc.

Maelstrom event (1992)

Abraxas story (2001)

Originally posted by zopzop

I still dont' see universal level power levels from Abraxas in any of those scans.
Aside from destroying who knows how many entire Universes, and ALL of Eternity/Infinity being helpless?

I guess not.
Originally posted by zopzop

Making a Watcher get amnesia and killing alternate reality Galactus' (we don't even know what level of hunger they were at) isn't all that impressive.
Since it seems you didn't read all the comics, I see your point.

Originally posted by Mr Master


The 616 UN, like everything else of 616 in comparison with alternate realities,
is unique to the Multiverse.

But only the 616 UN was Abraxas' weakness evidently.

Or did you miss this?

http://s2d1.turboimagehost.com/t/792506_Ab3.jpg

"the UN,
the ONE weapon that could destroy him"

The Galactus of that Timeline was 616 Galactus 15 years in the future.

That aside though, it makes no difference, it was Abraxas that needed to be nullified,
and to do so, the 616 UN was what was necessary.

And only one has been a threat to, or performed feats against Abraxas scale powers.

Yea, that was an aspect of Eternity's consciousness (reality 82432)

What was needed here was action against Abraxas, a being who scared ALL of Eternity.

Heck, in the Abraxas arc,
nullifying Abraxas resulted in the complete remaking of 616 Eternity's total consciousness (the multiverse)
although I'd say all creation was remade.


Unfortunately Roma is written badly sometimes, but Roma is quite powerful in her right,
I have scans of her resurrecting people who have died by simply
reaching into the past and plucking them out and into the present with a gesture.

That side,
she owns tech created by matrix/Merlyn
that could wipe out any reality in the Omniverse with the turn of a key.

Her Starlight Citadel is an simultaneous observational point of the entire Omniverse,
it too itself can destroy entire Universes.

Her thing is more of status as Omniversal guarian, she relies on her tech for cosmic scale effects.

1. I think it was explained clearly in the scene:

http://s3d4.turboimagehost.com/t/8050674_G.jpg

2. Because it's the ONE weapon that can destroy him, as the story/evidence proved.

3. Apparntly only the 616 UN (the original real deal) was his only weakness.


That so called "non-multiversal/omniversal" threat nearly took out all of creation.

Maelstrom killed the embodiment of an abstract concept,
in some unexplained way avoided the affect of the IG,
and created a black hole that with time would've swallowed 616 and all existence with it.

Case & point,
the Galactus/UN connection was not established until years later in the Abraxas arc.

Maelstrom event (1992)

Abraxas story (2001)


Aside from destroying who knows how many entire Universes, and ALL of Eternity/Infinity being helpless?

I guess not.

Since it seems you didn't read all the comics, I see your point.

A wall of text with nothing of substance.

Only the 616 UN was Abraxas weakness, really? And please don't bring up Handbook entries as proof of anything because that doesnt' fly on these boards.

We STILL don't know what level of power those alternate reality versions of Galactus Abraxas "killed" were do we? Because this makes a WORLD of difference doesn't it? This is important because when Abraxas faced a restored Galactus thanks to Valeria and Franklin, Abraxas didn't kill him but resorted to his "trump" the UN! Why not own him like he "owned" all the alternate reality versions of him? Why resort to threatening him with the UN?

No Malestrom was not a threat to "all creation" otherwise the LT would have intervened. He was a threat to 616 reality and nothing more. Yet even he was able to keep the UN from Galactus. Hell, he was killed by his own black hole and it took Oblivion to save him.

Roma was also punked by Necrom I believe. For a supposedly "omniversal" level power/authority she seems to get punked by beings that would be classified as mid herald level AT BEST.

Originally posted by zopzop

A wall of text with nothing of substance.

Originally posted by zopzop



1: Only the 616 UN was Abraxas weakness, really?

2: And please don't bring up Handbook entries as proof of anything because that doesnt' fly on these boards.
1: Uhh, yea!

2: Handbooks if supported by on panel art is just as concrete
as a means of evidence as said on panel art.

That aside, I use Handbooks to certify what was displayed on panel.

That further aside, you really aren't paying attention are ya?

Anyhow: (on panel ... which DOES fly on these boards)

http://s2d1.turboimagehost.com/t/792507_Ab4.jpg

Roma: "It will be a weapon of unimaginable power that will WIN This day"
Originally posted by zopzop

We STILL don't know what level of power those alternate reality versions of Galactus Abraxas "killed" were do we?

Because this makes a WORLD of difference doesn't it?
Who cares, and no it doesn't.
Especially since Abraxas collapsed the entire Universe that each of those Galactus' resided in.

Alternate Eternity >>> Galactus.

Oh, and let's not forget how ALL of Eternity/Infinity was afraid of Abraxas.

Multiversal power of ALL Eternity >>>> Any and all Galactuses any day all day.
Originally posted by zopzop

This is important because when Abraxas faced a restored Galactus thanks to Valeria and Franklin, Abraxas didn't kill him but resorted to his "trump" the UN! Why not own him like he "owned" all the alternate reality versions of him? Why resort to threatening him with the UN?
He didn't threaten him with the UN, he only let Galactus know how he had the UN,
which means that there was no way for Galactus to defeat him otherwise.
Originally posted by zopzop

No Malestrom was not a threat to "all creation" otherwise the LT would have intervened.
The LT doesn't always interfere.

Just like he didn't when HOM Wanda tore the Omniverse to pieces,
or just like when MJJ was going to cancel out the Omniverse.
Originally posted by zopzop

He was a threat to 616 reality and nothing more. Yet even he was able to keep the UN from Galactus. Hell, he was killed by his own black hole and it took Oblivion to save him.
Yea, let's continue to bring up a 1992 incident to negate what took place 9 years later in 2001.

Again, the idea that the UN is a part of Galactus
and therefore under greater control by Galactus, was new to all of us.

And that aside, you're really dismissing Maelstrom unfairly.
Originally posted by zopzop

Roma was also punked by Necrom I believe. For a supposedly "omniversal" level power/authority she seems to get punked by beings that would be classified as mid herald level AT BEST.
Necrom never punked Roma.

But nice try though.

Originally posted by Mr Master


1: Uhh, yea!

2: Handbooks if supported by on panel art is just as concrete
as a means of evidence as said on panel art.

That aside, I use Handbooks to certify what was displayed on panel.

That further aside, you really aren't paying attention are ya?

Anyhow: (on panel ... which DOES fly on these boards)

http://s2d1.turboimagehost.com/t/792507_Ab4.jpg

Roma: "It will be a weapon of unimaginable power that will WIN This day"

Who cares, and no it doesn't.
Especially since Abraxas collapsed the entire Universe that each of those Galactus' resided in.

Alternate Eternity >>> Galactus.

Oh, and let's not forget how ALL of Eternity/Infinity was afraid of Abraxas.

Multiversal power of ALL Eternity >>>> Any and all Galactuses any day all day.

He didn't threaten him with the UN, he only let Galactus know how he had the UN,
which means that there was no way for Galactus to defeat him otherwise.

The LT doesn't always interfere.

Just like he didn't when HOM Wanda tore the Omniverse to pieces,
or just like when MJJ was going to cancel out the Omniverse.

Yea, let's continue to bring up a 1992 incident to negate what took place 9 years later in 2001.

Again, the idea that the UN is a part of Galactus
and therefore under greater control by Galactus, was new to all of us.

And that aside, you're really dismissing Maelstrom unfairly.

Necrom never punked Roma.

But nice try though.

Here we go again.

A) Alternate reality Korvac, you remember him, the one that punked the LT and all the abstracts destroyed his entire universe with the UN. So alternate reality UNs exist and are capable of wiping out universes on a whim. BCA Galactus was destroyed by his reality's verion of the UN. Why would they go "dimension hopping' to get the 616 reality one when there are an infinite number of alternate reality UNs to choose from? Why didn't Abraxas just collect EVERY SINGLE UN from EVERY SINGLE Galactus he "killed"? Since alternate reality versions of the UN have been proven successful in destroying at least a universe.

B) Eternity, the jobber king, was scared of him? OMG NO!

C) The LT was summoned but didn't interfere with Thanos with the IG but he did interfere regarding the Protege and Thanos with the HotU. Maelstrom didn't even register. His own black hole killed him and to make matters worse he tried to "choke out" Quasar's spirit form and couldn't even faze him. It was only after Quasar solidified in his attempt to expel matter from the black hole back into the universe that Maelstrom was able to tackle him (and wound up getting killed in the process!).

D) Roma was CLUELESS to Necrom and his machinations. He almost took over the multiversal matrix except that her father Merlyn had planned ahead and saved her ass. Adversary outright OWNED her.

IB clears this.

Didn't Inbetweener lose to spiderman once?

Originally posted by Simbon
Didn't Inbetweener lose to spiderman once?

There better be CONTEXT behind that. Because he "lost" to Thanos too but I provided a scan saying why. His masters made sure if he escaped his prison he'd be powerless and Thanos took advantage of that.

Originally posted by Simbon
Didn't Inbetweener lose to spiderman once? Spider-man > IB + Abaraxas + LT

Originally posted by zopzop

Here we go again.
What?

My on panel evidence corroborated/confirmed by official handbook statements ...

vs

Your opinions.

Yea, ... I know.
Originally posted by zopzop

A) Alternate reality Korvac, you remember him, the one that punked the LT and all the abstracts destroyed his entire universe with the UN.
I don't remember any Korvac ever punking the LT since it's never happened.
That aside, the abstracts didn't destroy his universe, Korvac did that himself.
Originally posted by zopzop

So alternate reality UNs exist and are capable of wiping out universes on a whim.

BCA Galactus was destroyed by his reality's verion of the UN.
We've only seen the Alternate Korvac (divergent) "What if" version,
and the BCA Galactus was the 616 version but 15 years in the future.

I thought we passed that?

Anyhow, the Abraxas arc which took place 19 years later in 2001,
has the 616 UN effects influencing the Totality of Eternity/Infinity.

Never been seen before,
and the story was that clues to finding the 616 UN were spread across the Multiverse,
obviously suggesting that locating THIS specific UN, was crucial,
so much so a journey across Realities was necessary.
Originally posted by zopzop

Why would they go "dimension hopping' to get the 616 reality one when there are an infinite number of alternate reality UNs to choose from? Why didn't Abraxas just collect EVERY SINGLE UN from EVERY SINGLE Galactus he "killed"? Since alternate reality versions of the UN have been proven successful in destroying at least a universe.
This has been addressed,
you're trying to induce real world logic concerning sense to dismantle a comic book story-line. Remember troop, this is fiction, and PIS is usually a way to make cosmic scale characters seem interesting beyond the "wave of the hand" and everything is gone technique.

And again, this wasn't about destroying one universe,
this was about erasing Abraxas from the present reality.
This affected ALL of Eternity's totality!
Originally posted by zopzop

B) Eternity, the jobber king, was scared of him? OMG NO!
It's not everyday that the power of the Multiverse is a joke for comparisons but ...

ok ...
Originally posted by zopzop

C) The LT was summoned but didn't interfere with Thanos with the IG but he did interfere regarding the Protege and Thanos with the HotU. Maelstrom didn't even register. His own black hole killed him and to make matters worse he tried to "choke out" Quasar's spirit form and couldn't even faze him. It was only after Quasar solidified in his attempt to expel matter from the black hole back into the universe that Maelstrom was able to tackle him (and wound up getting killed in the process!).
HOM Wanda tore the Omniverse to pieces, restructured 616 in her image,
"F'd" the mutant gene up across 90% of all Timelines,
and the LT was never mentioned.

So again yea, the LT doesn't always interfere.
Originally posted by zopzop

D) Roma was CLUELESS to Necrom and his machinations. He almost took over the multiversal matrix except that her father Merlyn had planned ahead and saved her ass. Adversary outright OWNED her.
I don't know why you keep demeaning Roma as it will have zero affect on what Abraxas is.

Roma owns the Celestial Nullifier, it can wipe out any Universe in the Omniverse.

Standing from her Starlight Citadel, any Universe in the Omniverse is an easy target.

When written properly, Roma has this weapon at her disposal.
Originally posted by zopzop

IB clears this.

Originally posted by zopzop
There better be CONTEXT behind that. Because he "lost" to Thanos too but I provided a scan saying why. His masters made sure if he escaped his prison he'd be powerless and Thanos took advantage of that.

Nah,I'm kidding. That's just a comic I imagined where that happened.

Originally posted by Simbon
Nah,I'm kidding. That's just a comic I imagined where that happened. Blasphemer ahah

Originally posted by Mr Master
What?

My on panel evidence corroborated/confirmed by official handbook statements ...

vs

Your opinions.

Yea, ... I know.

I don't remember any Korvac ever punking the LT since it's never happened.
That aside, the abstracts didn't destroy his universe, Korvac did that himself.

We've only seen the Alternate Korvac (divergent) "What if" version,
and the BCA Galactus was the 616 version but 15 years in the future.

I thought we passed that?

Anyhow, the Abraxas arc which took place 19 years later in 2001,
has the 616 UN effects influencing the Totality of Eternity/Infinity.

Never been seen before,
and the story was that clues to finding the 616 UN were spread across the Multiverse,
obviously suggesting that locating THIS specific UN, was crucial,
so much so a journey across Realities was necessary.

This has been addressed,
you're trying to induce real world logic concerning sense to dismantle a comic book story-line. Remember troop, this is fiction, and PIS is usually a way to make cosmic scale characters seem interesting beyond the "wave of the hand" and everything is gone technique.

And again, this wasn't about destroying one universe,
this was about erasing Abraxas from the present reality.
This affected ALL of Eternity's totality!

It's not everyday that the power of the Multiverse is a joke for comparisons but ...

ok ...

HOM Wanda tore the Omniverse to pieces, restructured 616 in her image,
"F'd" the mutant gene up across 90% of all Timelines,
and the LT was never mentioned.

So again yea, the LT doesn't always interfere.

I don't know why you keep demeaning Roma as it will have zero affect on what Abraxas is.

Roma owns the Celestial Nullifier, it can wipe out any Universe in the Omniverse.

Standing from her Starlight Citadel, any Universe in the Omniverse is an easy target.

When written properly, Roma has this weapon at her disposal.



Since there's only ONE LT throughout the entire multiverse, that Korvac feat is valid. He punked the LT then wiped out his entire universe with the UN.

No, it hasn't been addressed unless you ASSUME that the UN of 616 is > all other alternate reality versions of the UN. There is absolutely no proof of that other than your opinion on the subject. Fact is, IF Abraxas really did kill all those alternate reality Galactus' we still don't know what state of hunger he was in and why didn't he just take all those alternate reality versions of the UN? He'd have at least 9 according to you. Why was 616's UN scattered across the multiverse? It's not an item that is unique throughout the multiverse. We've SEEN ON PANEL alternate reality versions of it.

Why didn't Abraxas insta-pwn the HEALTHY, recently resurrected (thanks to Frank and Val) Galactus? Why did he rely on his "trump card" the UN to threaten him? I mean he supposedly killed at least 9 alt versions of him right?

And were was the LT in all of this? Abraxas is supposedly a multiversal threat? Was the LT asleep?

And Eternity jobs to beings he has no business jobbing to, so excuse me for not being overly impressed with " the power of the multiverse".

Maybe HOM Wanda was >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> than the LT. Ever think of that? If she really rewrote all the omniverse that places her clearly above him (or Thanos with the HotU). Since even the Protege and Scathan have never been shown on panel doing anything remotely similar. In fact, NOTHING like that has ever been shown on panel before (not even Thanos with the HotU). HOM Wanda was a beast. And unlike MJJ she can't be defeated by placing her in a reality with no atoms/matter to manipulate (ridiculous)!

I keep "demeaning" Roma because she's a joke. Him owning her means nothing. Unless you think the Adversary or Necrom were omniversal

Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
The IB gets to restored to full strength after each successful battle...

Battle takes place inside the one place where the IB is at his strongest; the center of a black hole...how far does the IB make it?


1) Thanos...
2) Thanos + Depowered Tyrant...
3) Thanos + Depowered Tyrant + Odin...
4) Thanos + Depowered Tyrant + Odin + Demogorge...
5) Thanos + Depowered Tyrant + Odin + Demogorge + Korvac...
6) Thanos + Depowered Tyrant + Odin + Demogorge + Korvac + Arishem...
7) Thanos + Depowered Tyrant + Odin + Demogorge + Korvac + Arishem + Galactus...
8) Thanos + Depowered Tyrant + Odin + Demogorge + Korvac + Arishem + Galactus + Abraxas...


So once again, where does the IB (at his peak strength) stop?

Stops at five or six.

hey buddy

Originally posted by zopzop
Then why steal it? He didn't do jack on a universal scale in terms of destruction. What was the point of him taking it then?

So that it wouldn't be used on him?

Regardless, In-Betweener would be lucky to get past current Thanos.

Originally posted by TheTyrant
So that it wouldn't be used on him?

Regardless, In-Betweener would be lucky to get past current Thanos. 1ytCEuuW2_A

Originally posted by TheTyrant
Regardless, In-Betweener would be lucky to get past current Thanos.

Utter fail...

Death itself cant protect Thanos from this guy as this guy can force Death to take him regardless of her feelings in the matter...

Current Thanos has absolutely no chance whatsoever of beating the IB in a straight up fight...especially sans PIS.

Originally posted by zopzop
No. If you read the issue, what made him immune was him being "unique in this or any other universe" this is now outright FALSE. He dies.

http://img823.imageshack.us/img823/2246/silversurferv301713.th.jpg that only means he has no opposite, no alternate galactus would be his opposite, thats absurd

Originally posted by 753
that only means he has no opposite, no alternate galactus would be his opposite, thats absurd

Then how do you explain what IB did to the Punisher robot? WTF would the polar opposite of the robot be? How do you explain the text "unique in this or any other universe"?

Originally posted by zopzop
Then how do you explain what IB did to the Punisher robot? WTF would the polar opposite of the robot be? How do you explain the text "unique in this or any other universe"? it means "I have no opposites in this or any other universe"

Originally posted by zopzop
Then how do you explain what IB did to the Punisher robot? WTF would the polar opposite of the robot be? How do you explain the text "unique in this or any other universe"?

That text is PIS as it clearly isnt true; there is a Galactus in every single alternate reality (except those few realities where Galactus has been destroyed in of course)...

Just because something is stated on panel doesnt make it the literal or absolute truth as alot of these writers are idiots; at one point in time "solar system" and "galaxy" were used interchangably by these guys....if that isnt a testiment to the lack of some of these guys ability to write coherently, then nothing is.

Thats why we have a no PIS rule here on these forums as you have to use logic and reasoning ability to separate PIS events/dialog from non-PIS events/dialog...

Anyway, that statement by the IB was clearly bad writing as its blantantly false; its identical to Mephisto stating that Thor could stalemate him for all eternity...

Originally posted by zopzop
No. If you read the issue, what made him immune was him being "unique in this or any other universe" this is now outright FALSE. He dies.

http://img823.imageshack.us/img823/2246/silversurferv301713.th.jpg How would another Galactus counter balance Galactus if they perform the same functions?

That'd be like saying the opposite of cat is another cat, but from across the street.

Originally posted by 753
it means "I have no opposites in this or any other universe"

What is the "opposite" of a Punisher robot from Galactus' vessel? Who or what is "anti-Punisher"? Care to explain?

http://img33.imageshack.us/img33/107/silversurferv301710.th.jpg

Originally posted by Mindset
That'd be like saying the opposite of cat is another cat, but from across the street.

What is the "polar opposite" of the Punisher robot in Galactus' arsenal?

Originally posted by zopzop
What is the "polar opposite" of the Punisher robot in Galactus' arsenal? Dunno, we don't see it.

It's not another Punisher robot though.

^thats for sure

Originally posted by 753
^thats for sure

Totally! Backed up with on panel proof too!

Originally posted by zopzop
Totally! Backed up with on panel proof too! He hit him with a beam of energy that's opposite of what powers it.

It's right there in the scan...

Originally posted by Mindset
He hit him with a beam of energy that's opposite of what powers it.

It's right there in the scan...

He summoned anti-energy to "kill" a ROBOT that's powered by energy?

Originally posted by zopzop
He summoned anti-energy to "kill" a ROBOT that's powered by energy? "I come to know the force which animates this particular form of life--and I summon the polar opposite"

*Shoots a beam of energy*

"Met by that, the life-form dies"

It's blatantly obvious what happens.

Originally posted by Mindset
"I come to know the force which animates this particular form of life--and I summon the polar opposite"

*Shoots a beam of energy*

"Met by that, the life-form dies"

It's blatantly obvious what happens.

So according to this logic, there is no opposite to the force that animates Galactus in this or any other universe throughout the multiverse?

Originally posted by zopzop
So according to this logic, there is no opposite to the force that animates Galactus in this or any other universe throughout the multiverse? Originally posted by zopzop

http://img823.imageshack.us/img823/2246/silversurferv301713.th.jpg Apparently.

Originally posted by Mindset
Apparently.

Galactus is UNIQUE in this or any other universe?! That's a lie, there are COUNTLESS Galactus alternates in the multiverse.

Originally posted by zopzop
Galactus is UNIQUE in this or any other universe?! That's a lie, there are COUNTLESS Galactus alternates in the multiverse. And they all possess the same force, their uniqueness is there isn't a counter force that can be used against them.

Originally posted by Mindset
they all possess the same force,.....their uniqueness

Originally posted by zopzop
The Galacti are all the same being, essentially.

You want to take a stupid leap in logic that one Galactus counterbalances another; that makes absolutely no sense at all. They have the same energy and they perform the same functions.

Like I said: Originally posted by Mindset
How would another Galactus counter balance Galactus if they perform the same functions?

That'd be like saying the opposite of cat is another cat, but from across the street.


Give it up.

Originally posted by Mindset
The Galacti are all the same being, essentially.

You want to take a stupid leap in logic that one Galactus counterbalances another; that makes absolutely no sense at all. They have the same energy and they perform the same functions.

Like I said:


Give it up.

He straight up said, Galactus is UNIQUE in this or any other universe. That's a LIE. There are OTHER Galactus'. We've seen them.

Originally posted by zopzop
He straight up said, Galactus is UNIQUE in this or any other universe. That's a LIE. There are OTHER Galactus'. We've seen them. He is unique, he doesn't have a counterbalance.

Originally posted by Mindset
He is unique, he doesn't have a counterbalance.

Even assuming this is true, that it means what you say. There is no counterbalance. What role does Galactus play in 616 reality? According to the writer, the IB himself would then be Galactus' opposite. Since he maintains the balance between Order/Chaos in his universe like Galactus maintains the balance between Eternity/Death in 616 reality (this itself is nonsensical since IB maintains the balance between ALL dualities).

I don't really care.

Knowing he doesn't have a counterbalance is enough for me in this debate.

616 G is unique because he's the first Galactus. The prime template,
the rest of those mirror/alternate/divergent G's are just reflections of the "first" Galactus.

http://s3d3.turboimagehost.com/t/8069818_G1.jpg http://s3d3.turboimagehost.com/t/8069824_G2.jpg

Valeria was prepped for years under Roma's care to help perform this feat.
It's not absolutely clear how this feat was performed, but it seems
the "heart and soul" of Eternity/Infinity was involved in some way.

Other "alternate" Galactuses have died ...

... but when 616 Galactus "died" ...

the Multiverse began to collapse via Abraxas.

Originally posted by Mindset
I don't really care.

Knowing he doesn't have a counterbalance is enough for me in this debate.

It's the IB. That's his counter balance according to the writer's "logic".

Originally posted by Mr Master
616 G is unique because he's the first Galactus. The prime template,
the rest of those mirror/alternate/divergent G's are just reflections of the "first" Galactus.

http://s3d3.turboimagehost.com/t/8069818_G1.jpg http://s3d3.turboimagehost.com/t/8069824_G2.jpg

Valeria was prepped for years under Roma's care to help perform this feat.
It's not absolutely clear how this feat was performed, but it seems
the "heart and soul" of Eternity/Infinity was involved in some way.

Other "alternate" Galactuses have died ...

... but when 616 Galactus "died" ...

the Multiverse began to collapse via Abraxas.

Nonsensical. Didn't Eternity insure that there would be a Galactus in every universe to guard against Abraxas? So if these alternate reality Galactus' died, wouldn't Abraxas be released (since their whole purpose was to guard against Abraxas in the first place otherwise why insure one in each reality)?!

Originally posted by zopzop
It's the IB. That's his counter balance according to the writer's "logic". Gotta scan on that?

Originally posted by Mindset
Gotta scan on that?

http://img833.imageshack.us/img833/6877/silversurferv301812.th.jpg http://img148.imageshack.us/img148/2461/silversurferv301816.th.jpg

It's idiotic because the IB is the balancing force OF ALL opposites. Even Death and Eternity. That's how he was able to summon her and she had to obey.

Originally posted by zopzop
http://img833.imageshack.us/img833/6877/silversurferv301812.th.jpg http://img148.imageshack.us/img148/2461/silversurferv301816.th.jpg

It's idiotic because the IB is the balancing force OF ALL opposites. Even Death and Eternity. That's how he was able to summon her and she had to obey. IB balances chaos and order, that's all.

Gaactus ahs no oppostie force as shown on panel and corroborated by speech of the living tribunal. get over it.

even if there are alternate galacti, so what? why would any of them be the opposite of the 616 galactus? thats absurd

Originally posted by 753
IB balances chaos and order, that's all.

Gaactus ahs no oppostie force as shown on panel and corroborated by speech of the living tribunal. get over it.

even if there are alternate galacti, so what? why would any of them be the opposite of the 616 galactus? thats absurd



Dude he balances ALL dualities. How the hell do you think he was able to summon Death, one of the "Gods" of 616 reality, and FORCE her to do his bidding? IB balances Order and Chaos true, but also ALL other dualities like Death/Eternity, Life/Death, Hate/Love, Mortal/Immortal, Infinity/Oblivion (aka Everywhere/Nowhere), etc... And according to the IB he is Galactus' opposite.

Originally posted by zopzop


Dude he balances ALL dualities. How the hell do you think he was able to summon Death, one of the "Gods" of 616 reality, and FORCE her to do his bidding? IB balances Order and Chaos true, but also ALL other dualities like Death/Eternity, Life/Death, Hate/Love, Mortal/Immortal, Infinity/Oblivion (aka Everywhere/Nowhere), etc... And according to the IB he is Galactus' opposite. facepalm he balances chaos and order, he can summon any being's opposite force, provided they have an opposite. this does not mean he balances all opposites, at all. Galactus balances death adn eternity, the fact that IB can summon death does not mean he balances it.

It is the LT that balances all opposites as he encompasses them all(necessity and venegance) and their resolutions (equity)

Originally posted by 753
facepalm he balances chaos and order, he can summon any being's opposite force, provided they have an opposite. this does not mean he balances all opposites, at all. Galactus balances death adn eternity, the fact that IB can summon death does not mean he balances it.

It is the LT that balances all opposites as he encompasses them all(necessity and venegance) and their resolutions (equity)

Wrong, he balances ALL opposing forces. He said so himself on panel!

IB : "Am I not the balance point between ALL extremes?"

http://img143.imageshack.us/img143/1350/silversurferv301714.th.jpg

Originally posted by zopzop
Wrong, he balances ALL opposing forces. He said so himself on panel!

IB : "Am I not the balance point between ALL extremes?"

http://img143.imageshack.us/img143/1350/silversurferv301714.th.jpg

So here the IB is telling the truth but when he said Galactus was unique, he's lying?

Originally posted by celestialdemon
So here the IB is telling the truth but when he said Galactus was unique, he's lying?

He was wrong. As seen on panel.

Originally posted by zopzop
He was wrong. As seen on panel.

He was also wrong about being the balance between everything, as stated by the LT.

Originally posted by celestialdemon
He was also wrong about being the balance between everything, as stated by the LT.

Uhm he PROVED IT ON PANEL by summoning Death and ordering her around! If he's only the balance between Order and Chaos how did he order around Death?

This incident was cemented as canon when later during the Thanos Quest, Thanos makes mention of the incident and IB confirms he can stay Death's hand.

But he failed to kill Galactus which is backed by his owN assessement that Galactus has no opposite. Even if IB were his opposite, he failed to kill Galactus. He stops at 7.

The UN would kill him aswell. It can delete a concept like abraxas. Also if you want to bring up alternate universes, in universe x the un erased death.

Originally posted by WhiteWitchKing
But he failed to kill Galactus which is backed by his owN assessement that Galactus has no opposite. Even if IB were his opposite, he failed to kill Galactus. He stops at 7.

The UN would kill him aswell. It can delete a concept like abraxas. Also if you want to bring up alternate universes, in universe x the un erased death.

The IB was WINNING the fight until the Elders/Heralds/FF got involved!

The writing was confusing. At first he claims Galactus is "unique in this or any other universe" then comes to the realization that he himself is Galactus' opposite (Galactus is the third force, balancing Death/Eternity in 616 and the IB himself was the third force , balancing Order/Chaos in the Magic Universe. But this again has problems since he's the balancing force for ALL dualities. He showed it with the way he handled Death on panel.)

How would the Nullifier work against someone who both exists everywhere and exits nowhere? Death != Oblivion. When Quasar was nullified he didn't go to Death's realm. He went to Oblivion. When Quasar asked if he was dead, Oblivion answered : No not dead, worse. Nullified.

Originally posted by guy222
hey buddy

Hey mate

hey eternal friend

Originally posted by guy222
hey eternal friend

Again mate your sign is very distracting

How have you been doing?

Originally posted by zopzop
Wrong, he balances ALL opposing forces. He said so himself on panel!

IB : "Am I not the balance point between ALL extremes?"

http://img143.imageshack.us/img143/1350/silversurferv301714.th.jpg no he isnt. the LT is and if the IB could fulfill the role of Galactus, G wouldnt be necessary, but guess what! he is. deal with it

Originally posted by zopzop
Uhm he PROVED IT ON PANEL by summoning Death and ordering her around! If he's only the balance between Order and Chaos how did he order around Death?

This incident was cemented as canon when later during the Thanos Quest, Thanos makes mention of the incident and IB confirms he can stay Death's hand. he didnt prove shit on panel, this is terrible logic. he isnt the balance of life and death, the fact that he could force death to do something only has to do with his power to summon an entity's contrarian force. he is a creation of chaos and order to act as the balancing force between them, he does not sit above them or G, let alone the higher abstracts in the cosmic compass.

Originally posted by 753
he didnt prove shit on panel, this is terrible logic. he isnt the balance of life and death, the fact that he could force death to do something only has to do with his power to summon an entity's contrarian force. he is a creation of chaos and order to act as the balancing force between them, he does not sit above them or G, let alone the higher abstracts in the cosmic compass.

He himself said on panel that he was the balancing point between ALL dualities and then went on to prove it. How else could he summon Death and force her to act AGAINST her will then dismiss her like a cheap whore?

Originally posted by 753
no he isnt. the LT is and if the IB could fulfill the role of Galactus, G wouldnt be necessary, but guess what! he is. deal with it

The LT is the JUDGE of the multiverse not the balancing force between dualities. Unless you got something that says otherwise.

And Galactus' role is all over the place. First he's 616's version of the IB (which makes no sense even in the story itself) then he's only around because he holds back Abraxas (even this isn't true anymore since Abraxas was nullified).

Originally posted by zopzop
The LT is the JUDGE of the multiverse not the balancing force between dualities. Unless you got something that says otherwise.

And Galactus' role is all over the place. First he's 616's version of the IB (which makes no sense even in the story itself) then he's only around because he holds back Abraxas (even this isn't true anymore since Abraxas was nullified).

In between has never been able to slay an abstract level being by his actions. He was able to slay the elders...
But he hasn't shown that his power actually triumphs over others on his level.

Death in the thanos quest scene was embarrassed at the affront. That doesn't mean that he will repeat the feat. Galactus also in the past showed that he feared the ultimate nullifier... The Abraxas saga shows us his indifference to it... Something even Abraxas feared.

Even if he was facing death instead of galactus... Trying to defeat her would at best summon either eternity or infinity... And you can't be assured that the powers or either abstracts blast would destroy death...

^

Regarding the Death thing, Thanos told the IB that he wanted to leave Death's services (he lied to gain IB's trust) but not before he found someone powerful enough to save him from her wrath, and the IB said he could do it.

The IB is very confusing power wise. Ever since the Thanos Quest he's been written WAY WAY down. I've been looking at his fights since that story and let's just say he doesn't fill me with confidence anymore. As of now, I don't think he'd last 10 minutes vs Galactus.

So "Classic" I still think he can make it pass 7 and 8 even. But "current" I don't see him getting pass 2 or 3.

You guys are so ridiculous. What happened in that story was plain as day. IB was unable to summon Galactus's opposite force. Later on, he realized that the reason he was unable to do it, was because he himself was that opposite. It is really not that complicated.

Also, for what its worth, Korvac defeated IB in a "what-if".

Originally posted by King Kandy
Also, for what its worth, Korvac defeated IB in a "what-if".

Meh to What Ifs. Meh I say.

Well, you've been arguing that alternate galactus are equivilant to the 616 version... so surely that should go for IB as well, right?

Originally posted by King Kandy
Well, you've been arguing that alternate galactus are equivilant to the 616 version... so surely that should go for IB as well, right?

Nah I was arguing the IB's statement that Galactus was "unique in this or any other universe" wasn't true since we've seen alternate reality versions of him.

Originally posted by zopzop
Nah I was arguing the IB's statement that Galactus was "unique in this or any other universe" wasn't true since we've seen alternate reality versions of him.
Does that really matter? He still has no opposite (outside of IB himself). What, would IB summon another IB?

Originally posted by King Kandy
Does that really matter? He still has no opposite (outside of IB himself). What, would IB summon another IB? it wouldnt be enough.

Originally posted by 753
it wouldnt be enough.

Sure it would. IB was about to win the fight vs Galactus till the Elders/Heralds/FF stepped in.

nah

Originally posted by 753
nah

Someone didn't read the comic.

Originally posted by zopzop
Someone didn't read the comic. I have actually downloaded that. doesnt really change my stance.

Originally posted by 753
I have actually downloaded that. doesnt really change my stance.

Did you comprehend what you were reading?
http://img804.imageshack.us/img804/2461/silversurferv301816.th.jpg

Originally posted by zopzop
Did you comprehend what you were reading?
http://img804.imageshack.us/img804/2461/silversurferv301816.th.jpg uhuh, IB is strongest at the point between their realms. that is the only reason he would have won. it's a circumstancial battlefield advantage, not a power up he achieves on his own midbattle. we could have the fight at the crunch and have G splash the IB with its energies too.

Originally posted by 753
uhuh, IB is strongest at the point between their realms. that is the only reason he would have won. it's a circumstancial battlefield advantage, not a power up he achieves on his own midbattle. we could have the fight at the crunch and have G splash the IB with its energies too.

Galactus had homefield advantage and coulnd't put down the IB. We all know Galactus gets weaker as he expends energy. The IB doesn't. Galactus was gonna lose irregardless of how you look at it.

Fight the IB and he can't fight the pull of the black hole, he loses to the IB.

Fight the pull of the black hole, and he lessens his ability to fight the IB. He loses to the IB.

Get into prolonged fight with the IB without anyone saving his @$$, he loses to the IB.

Galactus wasn't winning that fight. Face it.

Originally posted by zopzop
Galactus had homefield advantage and coulnd't put down the IB. We all know Galactus gets weaker as he expends energy. The IB doesn't. Galactus was gonna lose irregardless of how you look at it.

Fight the IB and he can't fight the pull of the black hole, he loses to the IB.

Fight the pull of the black hole, and he lessens his ability to fight the IB. He loses to the IB.

Get into prolonged fight with the IB without anyone saving his @$$, he loses to the IB.

Galactus wasn't winning that fight. Face it. they were stalemating and only circumstancial advantages would help the IB. he is equal to G's average or medium power displays, if you will. G has the best upper level showings. so once we factor it all in, he takes the majority

Originally posted by 753
they were stalemating and only circumstancial advantages would help the IB. he is equal to G's average or medium power displays, if you will. G has the best upper level showings. so once we factor it all in, he takes the majority

The one time they fought, on Galactus' home plane where he stated he "was near omnipotent" and Galactus could not beat the IB. As the fight dragged on, what do you think would have happened? Would Galactus have gotten stronger or weaker expending all that energy? Does the IB have that problem?

As stated on panel, if Galactus fought the pull of the BH, he'd lose. If he didn't fight the pull of the BH, he'd lose. Galactus was gonna lose no matter how you look at it.

Originally posted by zopzop
The one time they fought, on Galactus' home plane where he stated he "was near omnipotent" and Galactus could not beat the IB. As the fight dragged on, what do you think would have happened? Would Galactus have gotten stronger or weaker expending all that energy? Does the IB have that problem?

As stated on panel, if Galactus fought the pull of the BH, he'd lose. If he didn't fight the pull of the BH, he'd lose. Galactus was gonna lose no matter how you look at it. as far as im concerned G could go face IB in his realm and eat it too.

IB would not have won that encounter thaks to his own power alone.

where does it say the IB's reserves are inexhaustible?

Originally posted by zopzop
Sure it would. IB was about to win the fight vs Galactus till the Elders/Heralds/FF stepped in.

In the battle it was galactus... An abstract level... Plus a couple heralds... Were able to beat inbetweener at peak....

And in this thread it's galactus plus Korvac plus arishem... Korvac OR arishem make the others in that issue next to galactus look like muggles...

So yeah inbetweener doesn't pass galactus.

Originally posted by rotiart
In the battle it was galactus... An abstract level... Plus a couple heralds... Were able to beat inbetweener at peak....

And in this thread it's galactus plus Korvac plus arishem... Korvac OR arishem make the others in that issue next to galactus look like muggles...

So yeah inbetweener doesn't pass galactus.

You still don't get it do you? The heralds/elders/FF did NOTHING except help Galactus push the IB through the black hole and into the Magic Universe. It was Order and Chaos that put him down. Not Galactus + helpers.

Originally posted by zopzop
The one time they fought, on Galactus' home plane where he stated he "was near omnipotent" and Galactus could not beat the IB. As the fight dragged on, what do you think would have happened? Would Galactus have gotten stronger or weaker expending all that energy? Does the IB have that problem?

As stated on panel, if Galactus fought the pull of the BH, he'd lose. If he didn't fight the pull of the BH, he'd lose. Galactus was gonna lose no matter how you look at it.
Obviously, G would have lost that fight once they got to the black hole. They still seemed basically equal and it is just speculation how strong the black hole would have made IB (just "more powerful than Galactus". But how much?)

The Ib is vulnerable to being split into his own duel natures. He has succumbed to this multiple times (though one of the times it was a what-if). I think the collected team can do it.

Originally posted by zopzop
You still don't get it do you? The heralds/elders/FF did NOTHING except help Galactus push the IB through the black hole and into the Magic Universe. It was Order and Chaos that put him down. Not Galactus + helpers.

Yawn? Like you do? You act like in-betweener was doing anything to galactus except be in a stalemate. The black hole was the tie breaker.

In this scenario it's big g plus more. You really are all sorts of ridiculus.

Originally posted by rotiart
Yawn? Like you do? You act like in-betweener was doing anything to galactus except be in a stalemate. The black hole was the tie breaker.

In this scenario it's big g plus more. You really are all sorts of ridiculus.

Yeah, I do. I actually read the issue and the issues leading up to it.

Galactus STALEMATED the IB in Galactus' place of power where he bragged to the IB and I quote : "Each of us is near omnipotent in their own realm, and we are in mine!" Galactus with home field advantage could only stalemate the IB for a time (how long before he exhausted himself?).

The Heralds + Elders + the Soul Gems + FF didn't even bother combining their powers to attack the IB while he was distracted by fighting Galactus, they had to Mcguiver a plan to get him back into the Magic Universe where his Masters beat him; not Galactus and not Galactus' helpers.

stops at seven

Originally posted by zopzop
Yeah, I do. I actually read the issue and the issues leading up to it.

Galactus STALEMATED the IB in Galactus' place of power where he bragged to the IB and I quote : "Each of us is near omnipotent in their own realm, and we are in mine!" Galactus with home field advantage could only stalemate the IB for a time (how long before he exhausted himself?).

The Heralds + Elders + the Soul Gems + FF didn't even bother combining their powers to attack the IB while he was distracted by fighting Galactus, they had to Mcguiver a plan to get him back into the Magic Universe where his Masters beat him; not Galactus and not Galactus' helpers.

Hey smart aleck. It also says they are being drawn towered the black hole where in betweener is stronger. Or do you want to flat out deny what's happening on panel. An external force was acting upon them. Thank you for ignoring the entire story. Jesus.

Read the op. If you are crazy enough to think he gets past the galactus tier. You really can't be helped.

Originally posted by rotiart
Hey smart aleck. It also says they are being drawn towered the black hole where in betweener is stronger. Or do you want to flat out deny what's happening on panel. An external force was acting upon them. Thank you for ignoring the entire story. Jesus.

Read the op. If you are crazy enough to think he gets past the galactus tier. You really can't be helped.

The IB was a BEAST in that story arc. Do you realize he ordered around a high end abstract like a cheap whore and forced her to break a vow she swore to? Do you realize he shrugged off (he actually turned his back and walked AWAY from) a blast by the 5 Soul Gems, the very same Soul Gems the Elders used a few issues ago to almost kill Galactus (till the Surfer stepped in). Do you realize the Elders with Gems/Heralds/FF realized the futility of attacking the IB, even with their combined powers, to help Galactus and had to come up with another way to foil him. You realize that neither Galactus, the Soul Gems, Elders, Heralds, FF beat the IB and it was his Masters that finally put him down?

lol, SS alone in that arc matched the soul gems. Reed Richards beat sue with SIX soul gems (infinity gauntlet=weaksauce I guess). SS resisted the soul gem's soul suck (nobody else has done this). The 6 soul gems couldn't even get the elder's through the black hole. The soul gems in that arc were pathetic.

Originally posted by King Kandy
lol, SS alone in that arc matched the soul gems. Reed Richards beat sue with SIX soul gems (infinity gauntlet=weaksauce I guess). SS resisted the soul gem's soul suck (nobody else has done this). The 6 soul gems couldn't even get the elder's through the black hole. The soul gems in that arc were pathetic.

Apparently they were enough to own Galactus and without them the Elders plan fell apart :
http://img36.imageshack.us/img36/8386/silversurferv300914.th.jpg http://img841.imageshack.us/img841/9417/silversurferv300920.th.jpg VS http://img854.imageshack.us/img854/1350/silversurferv301714.th.jpg

Why would you expect the Gems to get them out of the Magic Universe? It was explained later that the Infinity Gems only work in the universe they are native to.

The Surfer said his power output must be matched by the Gems, when they were attempting to form that beam that flows one way into the magic universe to distract the IB. We don't know what kind of power they were outputting so bringing this up is sort of ridiculous.

Regarding "Reed" owning Sue with the Six Gems :
http://img23.imageshack.us/img23/619/silversurferv301622.th.jpg

They used a special layout to kill galactus (in fact, they had to wait for him to attempt to consume the planet before it even could work). They didn't just shoot him with the things.

Except the gems obviously DID work in the magic universe. They used them many times.

Reed did own her... It was IB's plan for her to lose but nonetheless it still happened. IB didn't use his powers to make Reed win. He did it all on his own.

Originally posted by zopzop
Galactus had homefield advantage and coulnd't put down the IB. We all know Galactus gets weaker as he expends energy. The IB doesn't. Galactus was gonna lose irregardless of how you look at it.

Fight the IB and he can't fight the pull of the black hole, he loses to the IB.

Fight the pull of the black hole, and he lessens his ability to fight the IB. He loses to the IB.

Get into prolonged fight with the IB without anyone saving his @$$, he loses to the IB.

Galactus wasn't winning that fight. Face it. Ofc IB gets weaker as he uses energy, the only difference is he doesn't need to eat a planet to gain it back.