Superman vs. Heralds of the Serpent

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Marvelknight
The heralds of the Serpent attack DC earth starting with Metropolis. The city was nearly destroyed with almost no survivors. Lois Lane died during the destruction. Superman is enraged by this and charges ahead....


How does this end?

Zack Fair
All of them at the same time?

Marvelknight
Originally posted by Zack Fair
All of them at the same time?

The heralds are all in different parts of the city. Superman takes them on as they come.

dmills
At this time I've seen nothing from any of the heralds of the serpent that suggests that they are individually beyond Superman. I think we can surmise that they are all top tier though. But not far not beyond any one of the big 3.

Zack Fair
Originally posted by dmills
At this time I've seen nothing from any of the heralds of the serpent that suggests that they are individually beyond Superman. I think we can surmise that they are all top tier though. But not far not beyond any one of the big 3.

I'm interested in what those hammers can do. Do they get MJOLNIR's exotic powers, flight etc?

Because if they don't, and the "worthy" probably don't know how to use them, Superman can BFR a lot of them to make things easier for him. Not saying he cannot do it, but that is quite a big team and he will have his hands full stopping them.

I'll wait and see how Thor handles 2 of them before I decide.

ExodusCloak
Originally posted by Zack Fair
I'm interested in what those hammers can do. Do they get MJOLNIR's exotic powers, flight etc?

Because if they don't, and the "worthy" probably don't know how to use them, Superman can BFR a lot of them to make things easier for him. Not saying he cannot do it, but that is quite a big team and he will have his hands full stopping them.

I'll wait and see how Thor handles 2 of them before I decide.

I would seem as if each Hammer as it's own unique set of powers. For example, Juggernaut can incase his in an unstoppable forcefield.

zagazum
.

ExodusCloak
Originally posted by zagazum
i never believed in all those hyperbole phrases, do you honestly think his force field could whitstand a blast from odin or galactus?

Right "Unstoppable" forcefield. It's a Cyttorak enchantment that is based around absorbing kinetic energy or whatever. So anyone who can trump Cyttorak's enchantment.

In this case I'd say you'd have to override the Breaker of Stone dude.

Anyway apparently in the next issue Magneto can't control Juggernauts hammer because of the kinetic forcefield while Magneto has been shown to be able to control Thors hammer on 3 occasions IRRC. So their hammers are tailored to their previous powersets.

Magiks soulsword will save the day though. Mephisto was afraid of being cut by it.

Parmaniac
Thing has shown that he can call his hammer back into his hand if he should loose it.

Juggernaut has shown that he can corrupt/posses people with his hammer.

Still nothing was shown that would assume Worthy > Supes. The next issues of Fear Itself have Thor fighting Hulk & Thing though.

Newjak
The hammer also granted Juggernaut flight fyi.

Parmaniac
Originally posted by Newjak
The hammer also granted Juggernaut flight fyi. When did this happen? I remeber him getting BFRed 2 times by backing up his momentum and 1 time running to SF and leaving these marks on the ground.

Newjak
Originally posted by Parmaniac
When did this happen? I remeber him getting BFRed 2 times by backing up his momentum and 1 time running to SF and leaving these marks on the ground. When he destroyed the Raft he used the hammer to fly away.

As for why he's not flying now, the thunderbolts made the comment it has to do with there still being a part of cain in control, and he's doing what he normally does.

Plus it may also have to do with the destruction's he's left by running there helping to spread fear.

h1a8
What comics are you guys referring to?

Parmaniac
Pretty much all Fear Itself comics.

Marvelknight
This would be a very interesting situation for Superman to be in. We haven't seen the full power of these heralds just yet, and will have to see Thor go against Thing and Hulk in issue #5. But most of them 1 on 1 Kal El can handle. The real challenge is when Supes has to deal with more than two at a time.

Batman-Prime
Yeah I also would wait a little bit longer before making a decision^^.

Colossus-Big C
Originally posted by zagazum
i never believed in all those hyperbole phrases, do you honestly think his force field could whitstand a blast from odin or galactus? juggernaut has withstood a God Blast from thor with no damage at all
the same god blast that can send galactus running and damage celestial armor iirc .he was indeed indestructable the only times he was hurt was because of magic bypassing his enchantment

worth juggs seems to be on par with classic juggs

psycho gundam
Originally posted by Parmaniac
Pretty much all Fear Itself comics. he means comics in general

Lord Feron
I think Super can beat them back and throw them around if he was pissed. BUt I don't see any of the "worthy" being KOed through physical means. How Rulk was tooled by Thing (please consider their power gap before thing got an upgrade).

Also Thing showed the power to shoot shit out of his hammer and level parts of a city.

So I think Superman could handle any one of them (not sure about hulk). By handle I mean BFR or some how manage to contain. But by the time he tangos with one I think the others will notice the destruction and head to supes.

dmills
Originally posted by psycho gundam
he means comics in general

laughing And I mean spit drink on keyboard!

h1a8
Originally posted by Parmaniac
Pretty much all Fear Itself comics.

I know that. But which ones? And are they released yet? How in the hell did you guys read comics before they are released?

Harbinger
laughing out loud

CosmicComet
laughing out loud

Mindset
laughing out loud



I don't know why we're laughing.

h1a8
Which comic issue # had Worthy Thing fighting Hulk?

Sr J-Bieb
H1 wants to know what comics they were in so he can argue and downplay them without ever seeing a panel

Philosophía
Thing was staggered by Spiderman.

Come at them, h1.

Zack Fair
Originally posted by h1a8
Which comic issue # had Worthy Thing fighting Hulk?

It was Rulk.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-pLVY8QGw2xE/Tfz4T60KkqI/AAAAAAAAAbU/4Dz0eHPfBzE/s1600/avengers14a+redhulk+thing+fight.jpg
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-TSpdwRNk5LM/Tfz4UeAIdVI/AAAAAAAAAbY/MF8sE8NxUf0/s1600/avengers14b+redhulk+thing+fight+hammer+face.jpg
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-EHUbEFLK3rw/Tfz4U7uQUZI/AAAAAAAAAbc/B4zMmR96X_g/s1600/avengers14c+avengers+tower+falls.jpg

Batman-Prime
I don't know why everyone disses H1. He isn't that bad. There are others who can reach him the water. His main Problem is, that he argues for and not against DC characters. big grin

carver9
Originally posted by Batman-Prime
I don't know why everyone disses H1. He isn't that bad. There are others who can reach him the water. His main Problem is, that he argues for and not against DC characters. big grin

Uuummm, you are the same way but you are a much better debator than him.

carver9
Originally posted by Mindset
laughing out loud



I don't know why we're laughing.

laughing out loud

Batman-Prime
Originally posted by carver9
Uuummm, you are the same way but you are a much better debator than him.

Ok I will argue now for Marvel Chars. But thanks^^.

Marvelknight
Any thoughts now anyone?

Diesldude
Superman speed blitz all of them at the same time in different parts of the city. His infinite mass punch powered by super strength shatters jugs shield and kills him. The rest are fodder against him. The only thing is that this happens before they even attempt to destroy metropolis.

Diesldude
Originally posted by Batman-Prime
I don't know why everyone disses H1. He isn't that bad. There are others who can reach him the water. His main Problem is, that he argues for and not against DC characters. big grin no worries, ill pick up the slack.

Parmaniac
Originally posted by Diesldude
His infinite mass punch powered by super strength shatters jugs shield and kills him. facepalm

Harbinger
Originally posted by Harbinger
laughing out loud

Zack Fair
Juggs has yet to impress me uhuh

carver9
I know one thing, the Worthys are being underestimated. I could see a single Worthy minus Hulk and Jugs giving Superman a hellava fight.

Zack Fair
I disagree. Only Worthy I see giving Superman a fight are Hulk and Juggy, maybe Thing.

Parmaniac
Juggs, Absorbing Man and Grey Gargoyle, I'm curious what his stone stare would do.

carver9
Grey Gargoyal seemed pretty beastly as well and pretty much unstoppable. Thing is beastly also along with absorbing man and Titania. All of them are pretty much Herald Plus.

Zack Fair
Really?

Harbinger
Given that B/E Tony damn near sliced GG's head open with an energy sword, I can't see him being a good fight for Supes + HV.

Hulk/Juggy/Thing are a different story.

Parmaniac
Originally posted by Parmaniac
I'm curious what his stone stare would do. I'm not arguing a win in a straight up fight.

+ Most characters slicing durability sucks.

Harbinger
It was more of a response to carver's post than yours, with the "pretty much unstoppable" deal.

CPT Space Bomb
With no rest he can't do it. If he was able to be well rested between each fight he could do it. Hulk, Juggy and Thing alone would give him a helluva time. If they came fairly close after one another he'd get wrecked.

carver9
Hulk is the only one that fought someone worth mentioning. Grey Gargoyal did as well. The way those fights went, I think Hulk could beat him and Gargoyal could stalemate. Thing has some good showings as well that could lead to him getting 3 or possibly 4 out of 10 against Supes. All of them are pretty powerful.

SuperiorTech
Originally posted by carver9
Hulk is the only one that fought someone worth mentioning. Grey Gargoyal did as well. The way those fights went, I think Hulk could beat him and Gargoyal could stalemate. Thing has some good showings as well that could lead to him getting 3 or possibly 4 out of 10 against Supes. All of them are pretty powerful.


Juggernaut probably fought the most impressive team overall counting the combination of the X-men and the Thunderbolts.

JakeTheBank
It sucks how Bendis effectively has had people think that Worthy Hulk is a joke.

Digi
Thor took one.

So, ya know, dials to 11, etc.

753
the heralds win. juggs and hulk are pretty tough and they outnumber him 6 to one. SM will likely beat a couple of them however.

Parmaniac
I'm pretty sure he could 1 shot Sin without much effort

753
5 against one then. juggs seems pretty formidable and hulk did pretty well against thor. creel is ok too

Zack Fair
Bloodlusted Superman fighting at the best of his ability can take this. It will be tough but he can do it.

Rage.Of.Olympus
Blood lusted Superman or the CBR/Imaginary Superman?

Anyways, Heralds.

carver9
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Blood lusted Superman or the CBR/Imaginary Superman?

Anyways, Heralds.


laughing

Zack Fair
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Blood lusted Superman or the CBR/Imaginary Superman?

Anyways, Heralds.

He will do it and he won't faint like a sissy.

Batman-Prime
Originally posted by Zack Fair
He will do it and he won't faint like a sissy.

Word big grin

Rage.Of.Olympus
Originally posted by Zack Fair
He will do it and he won't faint like a sissy.

You could throw in three more Kryptonians and Clark still wouldn't get it done if the last few showings have been any indication.

CosmicComet
I'm not sure he can KO Worthy Juggernaut quite yet, (his durability seems to be hinted at being very high) so that's the only question mark at this point.

But he can beat everyone else even if they teamed up taking the bulk of his post-crisis showings into account.

CPT Space Bomb
Superman gets beatdown. Not that it's going to matter soon. We'll have jean-powered Supes!! He'll save the day..

carver9
Originally posted by CosmicComet
I'm not sure he can KO Worthy Juggernaut quite yet, (his durability seems to be hinted at being very high) so that's the only question mark at this point.

But he can beat everyone else even if they teamed up taking the bulk of his post-crisis showings into account.

So Superman can ko Hulk...someone that Thor had to give his all against and still couldn't do nothing.

Yeah right.

CosmicComet
Originally posted by carver9
So Superman can ko Hulk...someone that Thor had to give his all against and still couldn't do nothing.

Yeah right.

Of course.

Thor even when striking with Mjolnir is not the same as Superman's fist.

If it was a God Blast, that would be something else.

Zack Fair
He doesn't have to KO him to beat him.

Rage.Of.Olympus
Originally posted by CosmicComet
I'm not sure he can KO Worthy Juggernaut quite yet, (his durability seems to be hinted at being very high) so that's the only question mark at this point.

But he can beat everyone else even if they teamed up taking the bulk of his post-crisis showings into account.

Haha what the f*ck?

You must be joking because that's some Starscream level stupidity. Adding a Mjolnir level weapon will definitely increase Superman's formidability but there are like 4 other Elite Top Tiers and the Hulk who was also a High Herald before receiving an Asgardian hammer.

CosmicComet
Originally posted by Zack Fair
He doesn't have to KO him to beat him.

True, but he can anyway.

Then he'll have his way with him sporting his raep face

http://img534.imageshack.us/img534/7971/1989qp.jpg

Rage.Of.Olympus
Originally posted by CosmicComet
Thor even when striking with Mjolnir is not the same as Superman's fist.

erm

Bro, you have been sipping some seriously tainted Koolaid.

CosmicComet
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Haha what the f*ck?

You must be joking because that's some Starscream level stupidity. Adding a Mjolnir level weapon will definitely increase Superman's formidability but there are like 5 other Elite Top Tiers and the Hulk who was also a High Herald before receiving an Asgardian hammer

Speed blitz.

Prove it wrong.

smile

None of these guys can touch Superman if he doesn't want to be touched. A hypothetical thunderclap? Seeing as Superman is much faster than sound anyway, he won't be hit if he doesn't want to.

Rage.Of.Olympus
Originally posted by CosmicComet
Speed blitz.

Prove it wrong.

smile

None of these guys can touch Superman if he doesn't want to be touched. A hypothetical thunderclap? Seeing as Superman is much faster than sound anyway, he won't be hit if he doesn't want to.

Superman's battles in comics.

smile

Unfortunately they will and he'd get raped.

Zack Fair
Superman is bloodlusted and greatly outnumbered. That is why I think he will use his speed to great effect. But since that doesn't suit you he won't, huh?

Batman-Prime
Actually he will lose if he fights like Thor did. With a OWAW like mindset he will win though.

Rage.Of.Olympus
He'd definitely be better off in the OWAW mindset but even then I don't see it happening. Maybe if Loeb was writing the battle.

People should also take into account the speed/power trade off that almost always happens in comics.

Originally posted by Zack Fair
Superman is bloodlusted and greatly outnumbered. That is why I think he will use his speed to great effect. But since that doesn't suit you he won't, huh?

There is a very big difference between a blood lusted or raging Superman and the CBR version that exists in the mind of Superfags.

According to the stips Lois has died, Metropolis is ruined etc. Superman is going to be less effective here than he would be if totally in control of himself but pissed off. His going to rush in head first right into the Worthy screaming.

This isn't my opinion, this is how he's approached a similar situation in comics and how I'd wager most writers would have him operate under such stress.

Zack Fair
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
There is a very big difference between a blood lusted or raging Superman and the CBR version that exists in the mind of Superfags.


No need to start name calling.

CosmicComet
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
erm

Bro, you have been sipping some seriously tainted Koolaid.

Speed simply kills bro. That's all there is to it. It even adds to power, logically.

As much as I like Thor and think he outclasses Superman in certain respects, like power output and pull-stuff-out-of-your ass-ness, he is woefully unprepared in speed.

No real way to argue against the importance of it on this level. Subjectively playing up writer inhibited portrayals does not do anything against objectively observed feats.

Marvel just doesn't highlight combat effective speed feats as much in their heralds as I would like.

Rage.Of.Olympus
Originally posted by Zack Fair
No need to start name calling.

Did I hurt your feelings? cry2

Anyways, I wasn't referring to you or CC.

Rage.Of.Olympus
Originally posted by CosmicComet
Speed simply kills bro. That's all there is to it. It even adds to power, logically.

As much as I like Thor and think he outclasses Superman in certain respects, like power output and pull-stuff-out-of-your ass-ness, he is woefully unprepared in speed.

No real way to argue against the importance of it on this level. Subjectively playing up writer inhibited portrayals does not do anything against objectively observed feats.

Marvel just doesn't highlight combat effective speed feats as much in their heralds as I would like.

You just said that when it comes to striking power, even with Mjolnir, Thor isn't on Superman's level or whatever.

That is a very stupid thing to say. Even if you believe Superman has the strength edge, when it comes to striking power, I don't see how anyone who has read up on the two characters can have the opinion that you just gave.

Subjectively playing up portrayals? I can't believe your serious here, not when the norm is what I described and someone like Jeph Loeb is the large anomaly. It's no coincidence that almost all the combat speed showings referenced on boards were written by him.

F*ck speed and the wanking it's been getting lately. This board/stat game mentally posters have acquired lately isn't something I understand. In battles, Superman goes toe to toe 90% of the time or more. On a very unusual occasion he might throw in half a dozen punches in combination with heat vision or what not but even then there is almost always a trade off of power for speed. A single standing swing is more or less equivalent to a large amount of super fast blows often.

It's just how shit operates in comics. This is the mentality that eventually leads people to argue that every brick that goes toe to toe with Superman has to be super fast in his own right and what not but apparently the same won't apply for Marvel.

Zack Fair
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Did I hurt your feelings? cry2

Anyways, I wasn't referring to you or CC.

Yeah you did =\ but it is all cool now.

The speed mentality has been around for quite a while bro.

I think writters would have Superman going all out and effectively using his powers when his city and the love of his life have been destroyed. Specially since he will know just how powerful these guys really are.

However that doesn't mean he will win 10/10. If he plays his cards right he might get 2-3. Otherwise he fails and DC is screwed lol.

quanchi112
Heralds win.

Rage.Of.Olympus
Originally posted by Zack Fair
Yeah you did =\ but it is all cool now.
hug

CPT Space Bomb
Originally posted by quanchi112
Heralds win.

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