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Battle takes place in a Geonosian arena. All combatants are in their prime.

Which team takes this?

Give Yoda better teammates.

As it stands, team two gets mauled.

Obi-wan's not bad, he'd beat Qui-gon.

But whoever Maul goes against beats him.

Originally posted by Harbinger
Give Yoda better teammates.

As it stands, team two gets mauled. OMG ANOTHER RETARDED POST!!!Yoda could win this solo.But with to highly aclaimed swords men they could do this blind folded, on one leg,and with a 5 minute bomb set in their mouths

Originally posted by Naga Sado
Yoda could win this solo.But with to highly aclaimed swords men they could do this blind folded, on one leg,and with a 5 minute bomb set in their mouths 1ytCEuuW2_A

This is going to be close. No way in Hell that Yoda could solo this. Mace vs. Yoda is very likely a toss-up. Dooku is quite a bit better than Kenobi, and Maul is quite a bit better than QGJ. So this fight very likely comes down to can Maul beat Qui-Gonn faster than Dooku can beat Kenobi?

Originally posted by truejedi
This is going to be close. No way in Hell that Yoda could solo this. Mace vs. Yoda is very likely a toss-up. Dooku is quite a bit better than Kenobi, and Maul is quite a bit better than QGJ. So this fight very likely comes down to can Maul beat Qui-Gonn faster than Dooku can beat Kenobi?

No way is Mace vs Yoda a "toss-up." Yoda wins every time. But agreed that Yoda won't be soloing in this one. However, team 2 still wins.

proof that Yoda would "win every time" against Mace?

From what we have seen I believe Dooku would beat Kenobi quicker than Maul would beat Qui-Gon.

I agree with that.

Originally posted by truejedi
proof that Yoda would "win every time" against Mace?

We can play this game. Here, how about this: Proof that a contest between the two is a "toss-up"

Proof that shut up.

there is no game, me saying proof is when you would present a reason why you think that Yoda would beat Mace "Every time". (Every time being the key words here)

If you want an argument as to why it is a toss-up: I'll give you:

1. Mace's showing in CWC as proof he can at least compete with Yoda in the force.

2. Mace beat Sidious, Yoda merely stalemated....

There, that's enough to establish that they are on a similar tier. you need to form a basis for your claim that, "Yoda beats Mace every time."

Don't you guys belive in the 'Greatest foe of darkness line?'

Or does Mace not count what with being black and all?

Is Mace "darkness?"

Ooooh, I'm not falling for that one. Not touching that with a 10-mile pole.

Though if Yoda is the greatest foe of darkness, then Mace is therefore a lesser foe of darkness.

does "greatest foe of darkness" means he wins "every time" over someone who is a "less foe of darkness" when that lesser foe has proven himself to be not much lesser?

I don't think think he'd win every time, but I think that there is a bigger disparity than you are making out. Mace beat Sidious because of Vaapad, something he will not benefit from as much here. Yoda could keep up with Sids on his own, he did not require a boost to do so. And being able to 'compete' isn't really much. Yoda's own CWC feat eclipse Maces.

Originally posted by truejedi

2. Mace beat Sidious, Yoda merely stalemated....
Remember that Mace's victory over Sids was largerly due to Vaapad's effectiveness against darksiders.
This will not be the case in his fight with Yoda.

Toss up? Rather not. Yoda wins every time? Rather not.
He wins a clear majority though.

But not quickly enough imo. Dooku wll join in eventually.

Yoda's feats > Mace's CWC feats? really? How so? I call shenanigans there. "Punch the droids to death Mace" is pretty much the closest thing we have to a force god.

Originally posted by Nephthys
But not quickly enough imo. Dooku wll join in eventually.
Right. Team 1 takes it.

Yoda throwing those tank carriers around is beyond anything Mace did. Plus he was force pushing hundreds of super battle-droids off the bridge on coruscant.

I agree that Yoda takes this majority of the time against mace alone, however dooku and mace together would quickly overwhelm Yoda.

Originally posted by truejedi
there is no game, me saying proof is when you would present a reason why you think that Yoda would beat Mace "Every time". (Every time being the key words here)

No TJ, the key word here is "proof". You or I cannot provide PROOF of either one of these. Hell you or I couldn't provide "proof" that Mace Windu defeats R2D2 every time. Evidence? Yes. Proof? NOPE! That's what I was saying when I said 'game'. Understand?

Now the evidence that I have has been layed out before. Yoda; 900 year old master - greatest foe the darkenss has ever known - avatar of the light - disarmed Sidious - humiliated Dooku on a planet "steeped in the dark side" even though he (Dooku) took a serious cheap shot at Yoda and had a warhead ready to annihilate, is just better than Mace Windu, who is Dooku's equal by most measures. So proof? No. Evidence? Yes.

While Mace Windu is one incredibly badass Jedi (one of the probably 4 or 5 greatest of all-time), Yoda's attunement and experience are the trump cards here.

Really, really get over yourself.

Originally posted by truejedi
Really, really get over yourself.

After this.

I think people are forgetting that Obi was far improved as of ROTS then he was in PM or AOTC... For God's sake he even changed his style during those times. Proof of such is how he was about to use soresu quite effectively against Anakin.. who as we know.. beat Dooku... I don't think Dooku beats Obi very quickly at all.. In fact, I think it would be a decently long fight which would enable Maul to beat Qui-Gon and come help with Dooku. I also agree with the people saying Mace vs. Yoda is a very good fight. Lets not forget ... Dooku stalemated Yoda AFTER taking out both Anakin and Yoda... Dooku and Mace were said to have had great sparring sessions in the past and were very close in skill. Thus, I just can't see Yoda walking all over Mace... In face, I would give Yoda a 6/10 there.

You forget how quickly and easily Dooku incapacitated Obi-Wan in ROTS. Plus, from what we saw in TPM Qui-Gon is fully capable of holding his own against Maul for quite a while.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
In face, I would give Yoda a 6/10 there.

Right, because Yoda, "in face", would have only beaten Dooku 60 percent of the time. Good logic there KT

BTW; I didn't say it wouldn't be a good fight, I said that Yoda wins 10/10.

Dooku solos.

Can't see how anyone would think Dooku wouldn't do anything but dominate ROTS Obi-Wan, considering that Dooku already dominated ROTS Obi-Wan.

Plus, mentioning how Kenobi was stalemating Vader (until Vader tried playing acrobat and got his shit ruined) and using that to pivot into "Anakin beat Dooku" doesn't really fly when the Anakin that destroyed Dooku was replaced by the emotional wreck that was Vader by the end of the same film.

Still can't see Yoda beating either Dooku or Mace quickly enough for team two to take the upper hand here, while either Maul or Obi-Wan (depending on who fights who) is going to get neutralized very quickly.

The facts are these and there is no disputing them..... BOTH Kenobi and Anakin were emotional wrecks.. Do people forget that Kenobi was having to kill a brother.. almost like a son? Anakin wasn't the only one dealing with conflict. In fact, he was more sure of his choice than I reckon Obi one was of having to kill Anakin. People like to use this emotional wreck card to justify why Anakin lost... the narration make it clear why he lost.. it was because Kenobi style makes it so that he eventually wears down his opponent with ultra good defense and looks for an opening. This was no quick short fight where Anakin got owned. in fact, it was a long drawn out battle.

People claiming that Dooku beat Kenobi easily...are forgetting that he used the force to do so.. not sabers.. The comment I was referring to was somebody saying Dooku with kill Kenobi in sabers very quickly.. which opinion couldn't be further from the truth. Kenobi in a sabers only duel would do quite well against Dooku.

Dooku STALEMATED yoda.. AFTER dispatching of Kenobi and Anakin... Mace and Dooku were considered close to equals when they were both Jedi's... Thus to believe Yoda would be Mace 10/10 is bordering on stupidity... People are also forgetting that Mace beat Sids... While Yoda could only disarm him, but really, it ended in a stalemate. Mace beats sids.... Yes Vapaad helped.. but lets not forget... Vapaad is also channeling your OWN darkside feelings and increasing your power and skill. So it's not just a matter of using your opponents darkside force for a loop of sorts, you can also use darkside feelings within you to amp your skills. Point is, there is NOTHING is the star wars universe when you look at who fought who and feats that should lead anybody to the conclusion that Yoda beats Mace 10/10

Anakin at his best > Obi-Wan. By far. Full stop. In your opinion, Obi-Wan can "do quite well" against Dooku in sabers. Anakin--on screen-- trounced that same Count with ease. It really doesn't matter whether or not Kenobi was at his best when he fought Vader; the drop in showings affected Anakin far more (going from easily beating Dooku to barely stalemating Kenobi) than it did Kenobi.

The only way your opinion on Obi-Wan/Dooku makes sense is if you think Obi-Wan would also give Yoda a decent run. By your own words, Yoda could only manage a stalemate against Dooku (everything taken into account). IMO, it's pretty clear that given that the ease with which Dooku disarmed Kenobi in AOTC, and given that both Anakin and Obi-Wan combined couldn't take down Dooku in sabers during ROTS (prior to Obi-Wan being incapacitated and Anakin going all "IN TEH ZONE!!!", I can't really see how Obi-Wan's anywhere being a peer of Dooku's.

I won't speak too much on Mace/Yoda, but I will say that using Yoda/Dooku as a baseline doesn't make much sense, either, unless you think that Dooku=Palpatine. Yoda also stalemated the latter during ROTS. Dooku would make Yoda work (IE the fight wouldn't be short), but I couldn't see Dooku (or Mace, given that he and the Count are about equal, all things considered) beating Yoda.

@KT - You mean he stalemated Yoda by causing a distraction that allowed him to flee? Yeah, I suppose. Although I wouldn't brag about that if I was Dooku. Stalemating can be done several different ways, and does not always, or even usually, indicate that two combatants or participants are equal. That's a major logic fail if you assume otherwise. Moreover, he couldn't outduel Yoda on Vjun (with a major darkside boost) even while trying to kill Yoda who was trying to save someone else from nailing the ground. Cheap-shot + planet steeped in the darkside and he STILL COULDN'T BEAT HIM. And yes Maces's Vaapad played a MAJOR ***king role in his victory over Sidious. That advantage would be FAR less evident against Yoda, avatar of the light. Not to mention the fact that Yoda regularly outsparred Mace Windu. While I admit that a sparring contest leaves some things open for debate, it is evidence nonetheless. While I readily agree that Mace would give Yoda one hell of a fight, Yoda's power, experience, and attunement to the Force will allow him to prevail each and every time.

http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20060808024144/starwars/images/8/8e/Yodakick.JPG
Yoda solos
Just kidding but Yoda's team takes it maximum difficulty.

Originally posted by Harbinger
Can't see how anyone would think Dooku wouldn't do anything but dominate ROTS Obi-Wan, considering that Dooku already dominated ROTS Obi-Wan.

Plus, mentioning how Kenobi was stalemating Vader (until Vader tried playing acrobat and got his shit ruined) and using that to pivot into "Anakin beat Dooku" doesn't really fly when the Anakin that destroyed Dooku was replaced by the emotional wreck that was Vader by the end of the same film.

Still can't see Yoda beating either Dooku or Mace quickly enough for team two to take the upper hand here, while either Maul or Obi-Wan (depending on who fights who) is going to get neutralized very quickly.


It has been years since I've read the ROTS novelization, but watching the Duel aboard the Invisible Hand onscreen, both Kenobi and Skywalker came out on the attack using secondary forms (Ataru & Shien). Neither of them used their preferred forms. If the argument is made that Anakin wasn't in the "zone," why is the same not made for Obi-Wan. Dooku dominated them both before Kenobi was removed and Anakin could revert to an all-out Djem So barage.

Now, that's just by watching the movie. I don't remember the novelization.

To me, in a one-on-one duel, Kenobi is not going to just charge, Ataru style, and get incapacitated by Dooku's Force powers. I think saying Dooku will eliminate Kenobi in seconds makes no sense. I agree that Dooku is bettter than Kenobi, but able to own the greatest Soresu practitioner in Jedi history, preposterous.

That's my opinion of course. Words from a crazy man. Take it as you wish.

As for this thread:

I feel Yoda would delegate Maul to battle Qui-Gon Jinn, and Obi-Wan to battle Dooku. Then he himself would engage Windu.

Even if Mace's Vapaad may not have an advantage against Yoda, an avatar of light, the duel between them would be long and arduous.

As for Jinn and Maul, if Maul decides to go defensive and isn't bothered to press the attack, that duel would also be relatively long.

Then Dooku vs Kenobi. To me, I see Kenobi holding Dooku off long enough for Maul to finish Jinn. Then Kenobi and Maul battle Dooku while Yoda finishes with Windu. Then it's a curbstomp.

Does anyone suppose that Yoda could beat Dooku before Mace beat Obi-Wan?

Yes.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Does anyone suppose that Yoda could beat Dooku before Mace beat Obi-Wan?

Its possible. Mace and Yoda would both win, and while Obi Wan is master of soresu, Dooku will also not fall to Yoda quickly. Hard to say who would lose first.

Based on personality, id say Windu doesn't hesitate to cut down Obi Wan, while Yoda would be more hesitant to strike down Dooku, as always.

Yeah, Yoda's thick like that.

It's a matter of who matches up with who...

Yoda would definitely engage Windu, because neither Maul nor Kenobi know they would not stand a chance. Yoda himself would probably say, "Too powerful, Windu is, for both of you. Fight him, I will."

It effectively becomes:

Dooku & Jinn vs. Maul & Kenobi

I see Maul going after Jinn because he is a Jedi, and the weak link. I see Maul killing Jinn before Dooku defeats Kenobi.

Then Maul would either help Yoda or Kenobi.

Originally posted by Korto Vos
It's a matter of who matches up with who...

True.
Originally posted by Korto Vos
Yoda would definitely engage Windu, because neither Maul nor Kenobi know they would not stand a chance. Yoda himself would probably say, "Too powerful, Windu is, for both of you. Fight him, I will.

Dooku would also beat either Maul or Kenobi.

Originally posted by Korto Vos
It effectively becomes:

Dooku & Jinn vs. Maul & Kenobi

I see Maul going after Jinn because he is a Jedi, and the weak link. I see Maul killing Jinn before Dooku defeats Kenobi.

Then Maul would either help Yoda or Kenobi.

Probable. However, if you switch Mace for Dooku: Maul and Kenobi are doomed. Mace would crush Maul while Jinn and Kenobi fight to a standstill.

Originally posted by Vorpal Ruin
True.


Dooku would also beat either Maul or Kenobi.



Probable. However, if you switch Mace for Dooku: Maul and Kenobi are doomed. Mace would crush Maul while Jinn and Kenobi fight to a standstill.


Well since Windu > Dooku, Yoda would choose to fight Mace. That's my assumption.

If I switched Dooku for Windu, then the only hope I see for Team 2 is if Kenobi fights Mace and draws out the battle as long as possible for Maul to kill Jinn. And then those two better hope Yoda is done with Dooku.

However, if the two are killed, and Yoda hasn't killed Dooku, then Dooku and Windu overwhelm Yoda. Otherwise, if Yoda finishes at the same time as Windu is finishing up, then Team 2 still wins because Yoda > Mace.

I'm trying to figure out how a Windu/Maul duel would go.

Obviously Windu would win. However, I wonder how the superconducting loop of Vaapad would enter the equation.

The loop would allow him to reflect Maul's darkness back onto the Sith Lord. However, it does not add Maul's power onto his own as we see in his duel with Palpatine. Rather it merely makes him his equal. So I wonder how it would work against Maul an inferior opponent.

Originally posted by Korto Vos
Well since Windu > Dooku, Yoda would choose to fight Mace. That's my assumption.


Vs Yoda, I view Windu and Dooku as having a equal shot. Mace > Dooku, sure, but that's because Dooku is dark.

I don't see Jinn and Kenobi fighting to a standstill.

Originally posted by truejedi
I don't see Jinn and Kenobi fighting to a standstill.

Based off their intimate combat knowledge of eachother and Kenobi's defensive form. It would be a long fight with nobody gaining any ground for a while I think, atleast it will be long compared to Maul v Windu.

Originally posted by Vorpal Ruin
Based off their intimate combat knowledge of eachother and Kenobi's defensive form. It would be a long fight with nobody gaining any ground for a while I think, atleast it will be long compared to Maul v Windu.

If Kenobi was fighting Jinn, I don't see it being a "long fight."

Kenobi was disarming Grievous fairly quickly in ROTS. Sure Jinn fights differently, but I see Kenobi disarming and defeating Qui-Gon in a short amount of time.

And the intimate combat knowledge part would only benefit Kenobi, since Jinn wouldn't know that Obi-Wan has become a Soresu master.

Originally posted by Vorpal Ruin
Based off their intimate combat knowledge of eachother and Kenobi's defensive form. It would be a long fight with nobody gaining any ground for a while I think, atleast it will be long compared to Maul v Windu. RotS Kenobi has 13 years of experience and training that Qui-Gon is not familiar with. Within 3 short years, Obi-Wan went from a relative newbie in Soresu, to a defensive prodigy. Something Qui-Gon never witnessed or came to be familiar with.


Conversely, Kenobi is still familiar with Qui-Gon, so... defensive prodigy+familiarity=>>Qui-Gon.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
Conversely, Kenobi is still familiar with Qui-Gon, so... defensive prodigy+familiarity=>>Qui-Gon.

You think Obi Wan would win faster than Windu?

Originally posted by Korto Vos
I see Kenobi disarming and defeating Qui-Gon in a short amount of time.

Faster than Mace > Maul? I said relatively long, in comparison.

Originally posted by Vorpal Ruin
You think Obi Wan would win faster than Windu? Of course not. Obi's defensive nature means he'll draw their duel out until a killing stroke presents itself. mace would go right for the overwhelming tactic.

Agreed. There's no doubt that windu would finish maul before obi wan could beat qui gon

if mace could overwhelm Maul in seconds, as you seem to think...

Originally posted by truejedi
if mace could overwhelm Maul in seconds, as you seem to think...

if mace can overwhelm maul before obi wan overwhelms qui gon, as i seem to think...

If Jimmy can fool Tommy in to giving him his allowance, as Tony seems to think...

Well in that case, I feel that Yoda would beat Qui-Gon much faster than Windu beating Maul.