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'A shocking video has been released allegedly showing police officers tasering and beating a homeless man to death who they claim was resisting arrest.

Though the video is not clear, eye witnesses say the homeless man - Kelly Thomas, 37 - was unable to put up any resistance and was lying on the ground on his front when the attack took place on July 5.

His screams and cries for his father can be heard amid the tasering noises.'


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ljYNgLnpxM&feature=player_embedded

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2019225/Police-beat-taser-gentle-mentally-ill-homeless-man-Kelly-Thomas-37-death.html

this is just pure sick. this is your world people

Not surprised. I have seen people tazed for next to no reason many times. Get these things out of the polices' hands!

So what was the guy doing, to be treated like that?

It's all a mystery.

Cops are like that here in Houston, last year they killed a mentally handicapped 15 year old boy, just because they thought his cell phone was a gun. I think three or four officers shot him around eight times.


I think cops in certain situations are very helpful, but they need to screen better. They have crooked dirty cops on the take, some who look the other way on certain businesses, and some who like to use their authority to rape women, who are for lack of better term, hooking it, to make money.

This is a sick world, the very least we can do, is evaluate the mental stability of those men, and women who become our protectors.

Originally posted by Thoren
They have crooked dirty cops on the take, some who look the other way on certain businesses, and some who like to use their authority to rape women, who are for lack of better term, hooking it, to make money.

see, I don't think this is the right perspective here

no doubt, there are some "bad apples" on the police force who do terrible things, but a situation like is being discussed in this thread has less to do with individuals who are bad, and much more to do with how authority and the overall mandate of police officers shapes not only the way police behave, but how they interpret and perceive situations they engage in.

Like, sure, there are crooked cops, but police aggression, brutality, and the fact they need to be in control of all situations (and thus are so quick to use physical force) are a reflection of the culture of policing overall, rather than of individual "bad cops". To try and single these officers out as being deviant from the otherwise good cops is erroneous. Being a cop will make you behave more in this way, regardless of who you are.

Saw this video earlier too. I live next to fullerton

It is for safly reasons and again we don't know the whole story behind all this.

Its just one of the many cases of police brutality.

Originally posted by Mairuzu
Its just one of the many cases of police brutality.

in every case they are justified!

Saints are sinners and sinners are saints...

Wow..Is all I can really say.

Originally posted by inimalist
in every case they are justified!

In nearly every case they can convince juries of that, which is the source of the problem. No real oversight.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
In nearly every case they can convince juries of that, which is the source of the problem. No real oversight.

very true, and departments do all they can to quash internal investigations when they do come up. Hell, up here, the top brass at our federal police agency ended up editing and redacting huge parts of an internal investigation into tazer use

but idk about a lack of oversight being the source of the problem. It contributes, for sure, but I think there is a lot of psychology associated with authority that just makes this kind of behaviour way more likely.

but I agree, oversight would do a lot to remedy it

You can't see anything in the video and we don't know the context of the situation but I'll say this, if the cops tell you to do something, just do it. Don't debate them. Don't tell them you've done nothing wrong. Just do what you're told, and shut up. They don't know who you are, they don't know if you have drugs or a gun on you or a warrant out for your arrest, and will do something violent and dangerous rather then get arrested. Just comply. Simple. The cops don't call in back up or need five patrol cars for someone who is doing what they are told.

It's tricky with the mentally ill, but not much we can do when the Mental Health Act doesn't really give us much options if someone decides they don't want to take their medication.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
You can't see anything in the video and we don't know the context of the situation but I'll say this, if the cops tell you to do something, just do it. Don't debate them. Don't tell them you've done nothing wrong. Just do what you're told, and shut up. They don't know who you are, they don't know if you have drugs or a gun on you or a warrant out for your arrest, and will do something violent and dangerous rather then get arrested. Just comply. Simple. The cops don't call in back up or need five patrol cars for someone who is doing what they are told.

It's tricky with the mentally ill, but not much we can do when the Mental Health Act doesn't really give us much options if someone decides they don't want to take their medication.

the fact such advice would even need to be given shows a problem in the system itself

Originally posted by inimalist
the fact such advice would even need to be given shows a problem in the system itself

I think it needs to be said because most people are stupid, not because there is an inherent problem with the system.

Last year some guy pulled on a gun on a friend of mine at a party in Toronto. Long story short when the cops came my friend got into a fight with the cops and he ended up getting roughed up then arrested too. He's my friend and I like him, but it was entirely his fault he got arrested and had to spend the night in jail. As if fighting with the cops is going to get you anywhere beneficial?

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
I think it needs to be said because most people are stupid, not because there is an inherent problem with the system.

its good advice. terrible that it is needed, but ya, good advice

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Last year some guy pulled on a gun on a friend of mine at a party in Toronto. Long story short when the cops came my friend got into a fight with the cops and he ended up getting roughed up then arrested too. He's my friend and I like him, but it was entirely his fault he got arrested and had to spend the night in jail. As if fighting with the cops is going to get you anywhere beneficial?

never anything crazy like that, but I know many people who have been arrested because they fought with the police

it is important to know your rights, and I've avoided being arrested because I knew what the cops could or couldn't do in a scenario, but ya, you can't argue with the police because it will end poorly for you.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
I think it needs to be said because most people are stupid, not because there is an inherent problem with the system.

Last year some guy pulled on a gun on a friend of mine at a party in Toronto. Long story short when the cops came my friend got into a fight with the cops and he ended up getting roughed up then arrested too. He's my friend and I like him, but it was entirely his fault he got arrested and had to spend the night in jail. As if fighting with the cops is going to get you anywhere beneficial?

It think that such advice is good if you're ignorant. Meaning, if you don't know jack about your rights, that's a good course of action. Then consult a lawyer, later, if you feel wronged.


However, the person could be impersonating. They could be forcing you into something horrible (rape), or they could be hysterical and could be sending you to your death.

You should use both your brain and a calm/passive attitude. No need to discard the brain or the other. Both work nicely with the law. No one likes a smartass (well, no police officer likes a smartass going off with their mouth). But you also shouldn't roll over and take it in the Agnew.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
You can't see anything in the video and we don't know the context of the situation An unharmed man who was face down on the ground died.

What more context do you need?

Even if he were resisting arrest, there isn't any excuse.

Originally posted by Mindset
An unharmed man who was face down on the ground died.

What more context do you need?

Even if he were resisting arrest, there isn't any excuse.

Can you see that in the video, because I can't? I don't know what happened, I wasn't there and I can't see that in the video, but I sincerely doubt that he was lying there still on his stomach and the cops decided "Lets call five patrol cars in for back up and then taze this f@cker in front of those witnesses!" The report says he was resisting arrest, and got in a fight with the police officers and some of them suffered broken bones. So he was actively fighting with the cops at some point, that is the type of "context" I'm talking about. What I know is that I've seen five cops have trouble restraining an 18 year old woman before. She was a big (BIG) girl and mad as hell, but still it can be extremely difficult to restrain an individual if they are actively resisting. I don't know the intimacies of police procedure, but if someone is struggling to be restrained, tazing them doesn't seem out of line. It's unfortunate that he ended up dying, but I don't think the police are culpable.

Originally posted by dadudemon
It think that such advice is good if you're ignorant. Meaning, if you don't know jack about your rights, that's a good course of action. Then consult a lawyer, later, if you feel wronged.


However, the person could be impersonating. They could be forcing you into something horrible (rape), or they could be hysterical and could be sending you to your death.

You should use both your brain and a calm/passive attitude. No need to discard the brain or the other. Both work nicely with the law. No one likes a smartass (well, no police officer likes a smartass going off with their mouth). But you also shouldn't roll over and take it in the Agnew.

If the police are forcing you to rape someone or marching you into the back woods to kill you, then they are criminals, do what you go to do. lol

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Can you see that in the video, because I can't? I don't know what happened, I wasn't there and I can't see that in the video, but I sincerely doubt that he was lying there still on his stomach and the cops decided "Lets call five patrol cars in for back up and then taze this f@cker in front of those witnesses!" The report says he was resisting arrest, and got in a fight with the police officers and some of them suffered broken bones. So he was actively fighting with the cops at some point, that is the type of "context" I'm talking about. What I know is that I've seen five cops have trouble restraining an 18 year old woman before. She was a big (BIG) girl and mad as hell, but still it can be extremely difficult to restrain an individual if they are actively resisting. I don't know the intimacies of police procedure, but if someone is struggling to be restrained, tazing them doesn't seem out of line. It's unfortunate that he ended up dying, but I don't think the police are culpable. I don't think you know how to watch videos, srank.

Watch it again and get back to me.

Now I'm embarrassed. I can't make out what those nebulous black blobs are doing because I don't have super vision like you, Mindset.

Originally posted by Mairuzu
Its just one of the many cases of police brutality.

Which people always mistaken for when it is not.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Now I'm embarrassed. I can't make out what those nebulous black blobs are doing because I don't have super vision like you, Mindset. Can you make out English?

Originally posted by Mindset
Can you make out English?

Yes, but I've also seen actual arrests before in person so I know that the onlookers all shout the same bs ("He didn't do nothing!" "Police brutality!" ect ect) regardless of what is actually happening.

under what circumstances do you think beating a man, who is on the ground restrained by several officers, to death is justified as a responsible use of force by the police?

Originally posted by inimalist
under what circumstances do you think beating a man, who is on the ground restrained by several officers, to death is justified as a responsible use of force by the police?


Correction: beaten and tazed to death.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Yes, but I've also seen actual arrests before in person so I know that the onlookers all shout the same bs ("He didn't do nothing!" "Police brutality!" ect ect) regardless of what is actually happening. They are giving a description of what is happening as it is happening.

So when they say the guy is laying on his stomach with a cop on his back, what do you think is actually happening?

Come on, srank...I shouldn't even have to be explaining this.

Originally posted by inimalist
under what circumstances do you think beating a man, who is on the ground restrained by several officers, to death is justified as a responsible use of force by the police?

They tazed a resisting suspect, it's unfortunate that he ended up dieing, but he should have stopped struggling after they tazed him the first time. This seems like it has more to do with the mentally-ill homeless problem then police brutality.

ah

the RCMP report I mentioned earlier actually recommended banning the use of tasers by officers because of the misconception that they are safe. officers believe they are non lethal and use them as a method of forcing compliance, and such aggressive use has lead to many needless deaths. the people who market tasers are at some fault in this.

Originally posted by inimalist
ah

the RCMP report I mentioned earlier actually recommended banning the use of tasers by officers because of the misconception that they are safe. officers believe they are non lethal and use them as a method of forcing compliance, and such aggressive use has lead to many needless deaths. the people who market tasers are at some fault in this.

That's true, there is a misconception about the safety of a taser and they are used pretty liberally. That said in the big picture the amount of people that die from it is pretty low, and I wouldn't be surprised if many of the deaths didn't also have something to do with persistent health problems.

That makes me a bit sick. Even if he was resisting arrest does it really take six men to subdue one, and was there a need to beat and taser him while doing it? I don't think so.

Originally posted by The Pict
does it really take six men to subdue one

If you want the smallest amount of harm done to everyone involved, yes it does.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
If you want the smallest amount of harm done to everyone involved, yes it does.

The smallest amount of harm done to everyone involved...except the guy who died in the hospital a few days later? That was excessive force, and it wasn't needed in my opinion.

Originally posted by The Pict
The smallest amount of harm done to everyone involved...except the guy who died in the hospital a few days later? That was excessive force, and it wasn't needed in my opinion.

ok, just think about it though

a one on one fight, officer versus person, the officer has to use much more force than they would with 3-4 other people helping them

that the officers went overboard in this situation is really not evidence that less police should try to subdue someone. In an optimal situation, 2-3 officers would reasonably use force to contain a suspect. If only one officer tried, you are almost certainly going to see a use of strikes, throws, etc, where 3-4 officers would have no difficulty controlling your limbs, strikes and throws being much more dangerous

Originally posted by The Pict
The smallest amount of harm done to everyone involved...except the guy who died in the hospital a few days later? That was excessive force, and it wasn't needed in my opinion.

I would say that, at this point, you don't even have to state that that is your opinion: it's a fact.

It was definitely excessive force because he died from it.

Originally posted by The Pict
The smallest amount of harm done to everyone involved...except the guy who died in the hospital a few days later? That was excessive force, and it wasn't needed in my opinion.

That's because he was beaten and tasered, not because six people were used to subdue him. An equal amount of beating and tasering from one or two person would have had the same effect.

Despite the obvious use of excessive force, tasers, 6-on-1 and the guy's face looking like a rotten tomato, the cops will walk away with nothing but a slap on the wrist.

Victim is white and homeless, no ones really going to make a stink about it.

Originally posted by Robtard
Despite the obvious use of excessive force, tasers, 6-on-1 and the guy's face looking like a rotten tomato, the cops will walk away with nothing but a slap on the wrist.

Victim is white and homeless, no ones really going to make a stink about it.

Why bring up his race? Just curious.

Originally posted by Grinning Goku
Why bring up his race? Just curious.

when similar things happen to black people the media is able to sell the racial angle, and it is more likely the police will feel forced into reprimanding the officers

there is a chance that the mentally ill angle would play out in a similar way here

Originally posted by inimalist
when similar things happen to black people the media is able to sell the racial angle, and it is more likely the police will feel forced into reprimanding the officers

there is a chance that the mentally ill angle would play out in a similar way here
Ah, just what I assumed, and you're probably right.

Originally posted by inimalist
when similar things happen to black people the media is able to sell the racial angle, and it is more likely the police will feel forced into reprimanding the officers
Reprimanded how, given a stern talking to and a couple weeks of paid leave?

Originally posted by Mindset
Reprimanded how, given a stern talking to and a couple weeks of paid leave?

they face more pressure to, but no, in the end they wont be punished

What if a black cop is beating a white man or woman then what do you call it? or a black cop is beating up a black man? See it does not make sence.

It's very common for the mentally ill to be tasered. Happened here JUST THE other day. Must be a standard protocol, that if someone is known to police to be mentally ill and know to the police, just taser the guy.

Have to assume the cops are afraid of what will happen.

mentally ill people sleeping on the street are criminals