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Battle of the video game protagonists-

Revan vs. Galen Marek

Setting: Arena/Neutral Surface

Who wins:

Sabers?

Force?

All Out?

This is really impossible to decide without a comparable reference from the upcoming novel to go up against Marek's incredible on-screen feats.

I understand that specific game mechanics aren't considered proper canon, but aren't the stories and missions of KOTOR a reference for Revan's skill?

not really.. he had friends with him every step of the way, we don't know who did what. Maybe Carth was 10x the badass boba fett is.

True, though Revan did single-handedly defeat Malak whose power was augmented by the dark energy of the Star Forge and the handful of Jedi he used to revive himself.

When is that novel coming out?

Originally posted by Korto Vos
True, though Revan did single-handedly defeat Malak whose power was augmented by the dark energy of the Star Forge and the handful of Jedi he used to revive himself. To what extent? No one knows yet.

Well, he was "nearly unstoppable" according the SW Databank.

obviously not. since he was stopped. "nearly unstoppable" isn't a lot to go on.

Originally posted by truejedi
obviously not. since he was stopped. "nearly unstoppable" isn't a lot to go on.

Read it again. It said he was nearly unstoppable- meaning there was obviously some tiny chance of him being stopped by someone. And that someone was Revan.

I'm not saying that's a lot to go on. I'm merely responding to Lord Lucien's comment on the extent of the Star Forge's power enhancement on Malak. SW Databank stated that dark energy made Malak "nearly unstoppable."

naw, it's too vague. Nearly unstoppable by whom? By Yoda? By Luke? By Abeloth? I doubt it. Until "nearly unstoppable" has some background to go on it, we can't quantify it. Nearly unstoppable to a Padawan is chump change to a master, for instance.

Originally posted by Korto Vos
Read it again. It said he was nearly unstoppable- meaning there was obviously some tiny chance of him being stopped by someone. And that someone was Revan.

I'm not saying that's a lot to go on. I'm merely responding to Lord Lucien's comment on the extent of the Star Forge's power enhancement on Malak. SW Databank stated that dark energy made Malak "nearly unstoppable." Nearly unstoppable versus whom? Was he nearly unstoppable versus anyone ever? Or was it just specifically that fight with Revan? Within context, Darth Maul would have been "nearly unstoppable" in his duels with Qui-Gon in TPM, but he certainly would have been stopped had he faced Luke Skywalker, or Caedus etc.


So if Revan nearly didn't stop Malak, would Bane have stopped him less nearly? Or Exar Kun? Would it have been more nearly? Etc.


The KotOR characters lack quantitative statistics and definition. Their styles, limits, foibles, and tendencies in battle are all unknown compared to the fighters of the rest of the mythos. It's why we prefer avoiding them in a vs. duel. At least until Revan is released and sheds some poorly written light.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
Nearly unstoppable versus whom? Was he nearly unstoppable versus anyone ever? Or was it just specifically that fight with Revan? Within context, Darth Maul would have been "nearly unstoppable" in his duels with Qui-Gon in TPM, but he certainly would have been stopped had he faced Luke Skywalker, or Caedus etc.


So if Revan nearly didn't stop Malak, would Bane have stopped him less nearly? Or Exar Kun? Would it have been more nearly? Etc.


The KotOR characters lack quantitative statistics and definition. Their styles, limits, foibles, and tendencies in battle are all unknown compared to the fighters of the rest of the mythos. It's why we prefer avoiding them in a vs. duel. At least until Revan is released and sheds some poorly written light.

As I said before, it's not a lot to go on. However, I agree with your argument that it's all relative.

I'm just going off the assumption that whenever somebody generically writes/says that "X is nearly unstoppable," it implies that it would take a very powerful "Y" to stop X.

I think whoever wrote that article simply wanted to convey that Malak became very powerful, and that it took a very powerful someone to defeat him.

Wait. Wait...

I have it on very good authority SW Legend that Revan stomps.

http://img230.imageshack.us/img230/9620/revaninaction1.png

These show how he would react in a combat situation. By using a combination of force powers and saber combat. Also close analysis of the pics show Revan is using an entirely new form that he invinted. It undoubtedly is far superior to all others.

He also exhibited vast telekenitic abilites during his training on Dantooine. Able to levitate himself and hurl several objects around him. Also that one Master said his potential was unlimited.

Finally, he defeated numerous skilled people. And the KotOR CG gives him lots of powers and most importantly make him a level 20.

Drew's spiel is mainly to differentiate between uber game mechanic Revan and realistic Revan who is mortal and has failings, even if he's head and shoulders above everyone else in his era by most tellings.

Revan's feats consist of defeating Mandalore (Similar to Ulic), outdueling the foremost Echani duelist in the universe, beating Malak when Malak had, by Drew's own admission, a home court advantage with the SF and the fallen Jedi fueling him, he survived and thrived on Malachor when even Kreia was overcome, and he singlehandedly (Yes, without Carth the Unstoppable) defeated not one, but two terentateks.

I'd say he's badass enough to potentially wipe the floor with most comers, but until the book has feats to satisfy all objective argument, Revan fights an uphill battle proving he's better than Malek, who, iirc, Force TK'd a starship of considerable size and gave Palpatine a heart attack. And this place loves it some Palpatine.

Agreed, I guess we have to wait for the novel...

...If I have to choose, I'd say that Marek has shown greater Force accomplishments and would win in that department (though it would be close). However, in lightsabers, I think Revan is superior. He outdueled Yusanis and the fact that the hide of a tarentatek is highly resistant to Force attacks would mean that he must have killed the pair as a result of his lightsaber prowess.

All-out I can't decide.

Originally posted by Korto Vos
killed the pair as a result of his lightsaber prowess. How much lightsaber prowess would you need against a semi-sentient creature who is not also armed with a lightsaber?

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
How much lightsaber prowess would you need against a semi-sentient creature who is not also armed with a lightsaber?

This is no mere rancor. This is a tarentatek. Apart from its extremely violent nature coupled with tremendous power, exceptional defense, and tusks and claws that are venomous, they are most importantly highly resistant to Force attacks. They seem to do especially well against those that are Force-sensitive.

Jedi usually had to travel in groups, and unite in the Force, just to defeat one. Revan went into Naga Sadow's tomb and killed two by himself.

I agree, the tarentatek isn't completely sentient, and not armed with a lightsaber, but it's one of the most vicious creatures in the Star Wars universe, and everything about it suggests that it's not an easy kill.

Originally posted by Korto Vos
This is no mere rancor. This is a tarentatek. Apart from its extremely violent nature coupled with tremendous power, exceptional defense, and tusks and claws that are venomous, they are most importantly highly resistant to Force attacks. They seem to do especially well against those that are Force-sensitive.

Jedi usually had to travel in groups, and unite in the Force, just to defeat one. Revan went into Naga Sadow's tomb and killed two by himself.

I agree, the tarentatek isn't completely sentient, and not armed with a lightsaber, but it's one of the most vicious creatures in the Star Wars universe, and everything about it suggests that it's not an easy kill. No they wouldn't be, but I doubt very much you had to have a particularly masterful skill in saber combat to kill it, seeing as how the creatures didn't have lightsabers themselves. Or even lightsaber-resistant flesh.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
No they wouldn't be, but I doubt very much you had to have a particularly masterful skill in saber combat to kill it, seeing as how the creatures didn't have lightsabers themselves. Or even lightsaber-resistant flesh.

I certainly don't think a Jedi with average skill in saber combat would stand a chance against one of these beasts. A terentatek seems to require more than just one or two well-placed lightsaber blows, and whoever is fighting it has to avoid its poisonous tusks and claws while the creature is going insanely berserk.

A difference in opinion between both of us, of course.

Still, fighting two terentateks at the same time, and coming out the victor says something.

Clearly, if terentateks could be overcome with rampant lightsaber strikes, teams of three wouldn't die against them quite often.

Keep in mind that the one on Kashyyk broke a blade that is basically lightsaber-proof.

After in pierced it's flesh...


How often did the teams of two/three die? The Qel-Droma team broke itself apart and were killed individually, but the rest of the Hunt was largely successful. And if metal blades were piercing terentatek flesh, I have a hard time believing a lightsaber wouldn't. I'm not disputing Revan's power or skills, but saying the simple fact he killed them with his lightsaber (if that is indeed what he did) is proof of his amazing saber technique... is confusing. How would you even utilize a saber style against a rancor-sized, semi-sentient, weapon-less creature? It doesn't take a great practitioner in Juyo or Djem So to hit and slice in to an opponent that can't block your blade. If anything, a Jedi would require more Force-fueled reflexes to dodge and maneuver the beast than he/she would a mastery in bladework.



Is what I'm saying clear or is my Russian still a little rusty?

Originally posted by Korto Vos
Wow, I completely forgot the setting of where Revan fought the two terentateks. I agree again, though I would say that the battle is a testament to both his mental fortitude/Force prowess and skill with the lightsaber, though moreso to his Force strength.

To your second point. Well Bacca's Ceremonial Blade was broken at the hilt when Rothrrawr swung it at the terentatek. And swords seem to break through energy shields and able to parry against lightsabers, indicating that it must take something quite strong to be able to break one. I'm hesitant to use that as a statistic. Bacca's makeshift sword was made out of a crashed ships' hull--where he got the cortosis weave and the upgrade slots is a mystery best explained by non-canon game mechanics.


Honestly, a Wookiee lodging a homemade blade in to the hide of a creature--up to the hilt--is still nothing compared to the cutting power of a lightsaber blade.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
I'm hesitant to use that as a statistic. Bacca's makeshift sword was made out of a crashed ships' hull--where he got the cortosis weave and the upgrade slots is a mystery best explained by non-canon game mechanics.


Honestly, a Wookiee lodging a homemade blade in to the hide of a creature--up to the hilt--is still nothing compared to the cutting power of a lightsaber blade.

Ya, it's not great evidence. I wouldn't go so far as to say that the hide of a terentatek is resistant to lightsaber blows. (that would just make these beasts overpowered, anyway). Still, Bacca's sword was a powerful item, and the fact that the impact of the weapon into the tarentatek caused the blade to break indicates a strong hide.

Also, if we assume that the terentatek were formed by Sith perversion of rancors, we can consider the hide of a rancor, which is said to "slough off blaster bolts as little more than annoyances."

EDIT: So we could assume the Sith perfected the rancor into greater Jedi killing machines, effectively enhancing the hide to be even more resistant. This is all speculation, of course.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
At least until Revan is released and sheds some poorly written light.

Can't wait because the author himself said Revan's getting a nerf. Thank the Lord. I like the character but other people ruined it for me.

Here's the quote...


http://drewkarpyshyn.com/c/?p=239

Didn't I post that in the previous page lol? But thanks for providing the link.

Originally posted by Toshi
Can't wait because the author himself said Revan's getting a nerf. Thank the Lord. I like the character but other people ruined it for me

How so?

Originally posted by Korto Vos
Didn't I post that in the previous page lol? But thanks for providing the link.

Lol mefail. my bad. And anyways I lost taste in Revan when patrolling the official TOR forums and seeing how many people argue about him without using facts. Yeah that happens to every character but it happened to Revan the most. And I was like well every idiot is flocking to Revan over here...

Not saying you're an idiot because you're not but sheesh the TOR forums are brutal.

Originally posted by Toshi
Lol mefail. my bad. And anyways I lost taste in Revan when patrolling the official TOR forums and seeing how many people argue about him without using facts. Yeah that happens to every character but it happened to Revan the most. And I was like well every idiot is flocking to Revan over here...

Not saying you're an idiot because you're not but sheesh the TOR forums are brutal.

Well I was on hiatus from these forums until recently, but years ago, when I first joined, there was this huge idolatry for all these Ancient/Old Republic Sith and Jedi that caused some posters to make ridiculous statements like, "Sadow rapestomps Yoda." And during that time, there was major d-ridin on Revan. I admit, I prolly argued stuff that wasn't definitive about him, but after returning, I realized that there are only few things we can determine about him.

EDIT: I think most of the people on these forums are aware of this as well

i found yours im so stupiddd im so sorry

Ehh...no worries. Don't beat yourself over it.