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You've seen the fight in Dead Fantasy, but despite how awesome that was, it could have been much better without the handicaps (Tifa - the materia; Hitomi - Hayate and the Mugen Tenshin)

So let's settle this once and for all. The battle is inside Aerith's church. No materia, no ninja. One-on-One. Absolutely no outside interference. Can win only by KO.

Hitomi

Feats?

Tifa should win. She dominated Loz in impressive fashion. Sure the pretty boy was just messing with her, but what Tifa did was hardcore.

Hitomi doesn't really have any feats, and yet she fought her way to third place in DOA3--which is not a small feat considering the contenders included Hayabusa, Hayate, Kasumi and Ayane(the franchise's top tiers) If you ask me she might have lost only to Hayate.

Would be an awesome match for sure.

Interesting to hear the perspective of someone who picks Tifa.

I would have elaborated on my post earlier, but it was 12 my time and I was tired.

Anyways, based on this scenario, I'm fairly confident that Hitomi would defeat Tifa. First of all, the 'handicaps' that are set in place are of almost no significance to Hitomi whatsoever. By the time Hayate and his ninja tribe had shown up, she had already bested Tifa. Being a martial artist who competes in one on ones, Hitomi has already proven her capabilities in singles competition. Fighting alone is what she's familiar with.

Tifa, on the other hand, would be entering uncharted territory without materia. Even with her magic, she still lost to Hitomi in Dead Fantasy, and once Hitomi gained materia the match became one sided. Even with the materia, Tifa was only able to keep pace with Hitomi, now you're expecting her to win without it all, when Hitomi gets no real handicap? Not to mention, Tifa seems like a fighter much better suited in a team match, as she rarely fights in one on ones - which leads me to another point.

One vs one is a format that's going to benefit Hitomi dramatically, especially if you're going to KO. Tifa hasn't actually won a one vs one whereas Hitomi has (confirmed) defeated Jann Lee twice, Lei Fang, and potentially Hayate. While Tifa put on some impressive displays, she still ultimately lost, and as far as I'm concerned it's substance over style. In terms of one on one feats, I would argue Hitomi has more than Tifa.

Moreover, In the recent Dead or Alive Dimensions, Hitomi is only ever shown in combat twice - against Ayane and Hayate. Her match with Ayane is interupted by Hayate, and her sparring session with Hayate isn't technically a full blown match. In a game that focuses around the ninja's entirely, Hitomi is the only character other than the ninja's to appear without a clearcut loss. To me, this combined with her 3rd place finish suggests that Hitomi is one of the top fighters in the Dead or Alive universe, while Tifa seems more like a middling character in her own. In a cross-over, I'd like to think that the playing field would be level, and a top character from one universe would be able to be a middle character from another.

If that's TLR, here's the cheap and cheerful version

- Hitomi has won 1 vs 1 matches, Tifa has not
- The handicaps don't really impact Hitomi at all and gimp Tifa
- Hitomi appears stronger in the DOA universe than Tifa in the FF*
- Hitomi's is more suited for 1 vs 1 while Tifa team battles.

* Not suggesting that Tifa is weak, however I would argue that Hitomi is more powerful in the DOA world then Tifa is in the FF.

Anyways, just my 2 cents.

I agree with what you said about Hitomi in the DOAverse. She seems to be the Paul/Hwoarang of DOA who can hang with the top tier ninjas the same way Paul/Hwoarang can hang with the Mishimas.

I do not get where you are getting all of the info that Tifa is handicapped because she has no access to materia. Sure she will not be able to cast magic, but that didn't stop her from giving Loz a run for his money before he used his haxx0rz speed to take her out. The cheap bastard uhuh

I think the fight would be a great one, but I give to Tifa simply because we have seen what she can do. Hitomi on the other hand has no "actual quantifiable" feats to back her up.

Tifa's feats in singles combat are pretty miserable. At least Hitomi's actually walked away victorious from most of her matches. Losing to Loz in an impressive fashion still does not equate to a feat in my opinion xD

The handicap hinders Tifa significantly more than it does Hitomi. That's what I was getting at. Hitomi doesn't care that Hayate isn't there, while Tifa may miss not being able to cast that big boom spell. I guess it's the whole "you don't know what you have until it's gone" route of thinking.

As far as feats, I'm not entirely sure what you're looking for from Hitomi. She's been successful at pretty much everything she's ever done. She's beaten a guy who punches out dinosaurs, is her dojo's best student, and in her recent bio, they made a note claiming that she was as strong as 'large men'. I've been told that in the Japanese culture it's a big feat for a woman to have strength comparable to men, but that could be some misinformation I was given (if so correct me of my ignorance)

But in this scenario, I don't see Tifa beating Hitomi. It just caters to Hitomi too much and is in a format that Tifa has never been successful in.

Wait, I noticed the Dead Fantasy fights were brought up. Are we using the Dead Fantasy versions of the characters here?

the only problem with all that Angry, is that none of it is feats

As much as I love Hitomi, she has no real feats

Originally posted by Cyner
the only problem with all that Angry, is that none of it is feats

As much as I love Hitomi, she has no real feats

...

So you're counter argument to everything is that Hitomi has no 'feats'? That's pretty flimsy.

When you factor in the scenario, the characters successes and their overall ability, Hitomi takes this. Until someone can actually build a solid case as to why Tifa should win, I'm not really seeing it. Right now, all I've heard is "Hitomi has no feats", which doesn't mean anything considering that I've actually outlined a bunch that people either overlook or don't acknowledge.

How people just seem to feel that Tifa, despite losing all her one on ones, being gimped by lack of materia, unfamiliar with fighting alone, and having no real one on one "feats" of her own can win this is beyond me.

Hitomi's "feats" are more than enough to beat Tifa in a cross-over.

Originally posted by StyleTime
Wait, I noticed the Dead Fantasy fights were brought up. Are we using the Dead Fantasy versions of the characters here?

I don't think so. I just happened to put the video in Hitomi's respect thread so I suppose that inspired Snafu.

I actually used the same argument Angry Worm presents here (minus the Dead Fantasy stuff) years ago in the Hitomi vs Asuka thread.

The problem is quantifiability. Tifa's fight with Loz paints a clearer picture of her abilities than Hitomi's fights do; naturally, Tifa's feat is given the nod in a debate.

It's fine to believe it on a personal level, but it's hard to argue for Hitomi against non-DOA characters. Hitomi still has several attributes that are mysteries to us. We don't know the extent of her speed and strength. We can only speculate at her durability because of her win over Jann Lee.

That's why I wondered if we were using the Dead Fantasy interpretations of the characters. Hitomi clearly had the upper hand in that fight.

If we're just going with canon material, then I agree with general consensus. Tifa wins.

I've read the Asuka thread. It was interesting.

The problem with Tifa though is that she has done nothing but lose in singles matches. That to me suggests that she lacks the abilities to get the job done on her own. RPG universes tend to be flushed out more then fighters, so it's only natural for people to see everything that Tifa can do while Hitomi remains shrouded.

It's actually pretty easy to argue why Hitomi would be put over Tifa. We know she's strong enough to be competitive with the best of the DOA Universe. To me though, in a cross-over you need to measure the characters accomplishments in their respective universe and measure how it stands up there.

But eh, Tifa is more popular so naturally more people are going to think she should win, even if it isn't the case.

You make it look like Tifa's loss against Loz is a bad thing for her. Loz is not a pushover. The guy is strong enough to break trees with his fists(something Jann Lee has done) and is incredibly fast. Almost too fast for Cloud himself to react. Loz is no wimp. He is a remnant of Sephiroth himself, that alone makes him top tier in the FFverse. He tried to beat Tifa in hand 2 hand and got his ass handed to him. Then he stunned Tifa with his weapon and his hack speed. Again...cheap bastard uhuh I do not base my selection on Tifa's popularity, because I actually like Hitomi more. I like her fighting style in DOA and her overall attitude(when she is not being a ditz and tripping around with her breakfast)

Originally posted by Zack Fair
You make it look like Tifa's loss against Loz is a bad thing for her.

In general, losing is bad.




But... where are his feats?!?!?! :P

Seriously though, Loz is pretty good, but if you're comparing things he did, to things Jann Lee did, then Loz beats Tifa, and Hitomi beat Jann Lee...

I'm not saying that's how it works, but it's something to consider. Loz is probably more powerful in the FF world than Jann Lee is in the DOA one, but again, that goes back to my personal belief that a cross-over needs to evaluate the characters worth to their world to remove the 'imbalances' created by the different universes. That's why I say Hitomi's accomplishments in the DOA world make her better than Tifa in a one on one match.



Again, I'm not trying to say Tifa is bad. But in a one on one fight, against someone whose a specialized fighter, and who has proven her worth in the past, she isn't going to win. The popularity comment was more of a side thing. I know I'm in the minority here, but it's because a lot of people aren't familiar with how good Hitomi actually is and are just Tifa crazy.

Feats can measure someones physical prowess, but in a one on one, Hitomi has the experience and knowledge advantage. That, and physically she's pretty awesome to.

Just my opinion. Not trying to be a pain haha

You're not being a pain. In fact you are being reasonable which is good. Most posters just go wild with their fanboy dreams and decline anything brought up against their claims, so you're okay in my book ....so far uhuh

Loz is actually the SHM with the most feats. Stuff I remember of the top of my head are:

1. Breaking the momentum of his bike with his weapon/fist and tossing the same motorcycle at Cloud with his legs
2. His speed is almost teleportation like--dunno if it is actual teleportation.
3. He can cause shockwaves by punching the ground with his fists
4. Destroy a massive tree with his fist.

There are probably more that is what I remember for now.

Haha, I was being sarcastic about the feats.

Considering Loz would absolutely crush every single Dead or Alive character in a fight short of Ryu Hayabusa wielding the True Dragon Sword or an equivelant (And even that is mostly based on hype), I don't really see why Tifa putting up a good fight against Loz but still losing is a good case for Hitomi.

Edit: Actually, Ryu Hayabusa with his sword and crap might be a good fight for Loz in general, upon remembering some of his showings.

Originally posted by Zack Fair
I don't think so. I just happened to put the video in Hitomi's respect thread so I suppose that inspired Snafu.

Pretty much, yeah. Two of my CoDMW2 buddies were arguing over a game of Domination over who would win between the pair.

One of my buddies did point out that Tifa has some serious damage soak, if she survived Sephiroth's Masamune swing, let alone help save the world 3 times, if my memory is right.

Rules dictate that those who fight in wars most of the time hold the advantage. My buddy's words, not mine.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Considering Loz would absolutely crush every single Dead or Alive character in a fight short of Ryu Hayabusa wielding the True Dragon Sword or an equivelant (And even that is mostly based on hype), I don't really see why Tifa putting up a good fight against Loz but still losing is a good case for Hitomi.

Edit: Actually, Ryu Hayabusa with his sword and crap might be a good fight for Loz in general, upon remembering some of his showings.

Am I to understand that losing is considered an accomplishment now? What kind of nonsense is that? lol

Loz's power doesn't really matter all that much. In a cross-over universe, I don't see Tifa being able to take down Hitomi. Remember, Hitomi doesn't need to kill Tifa, just KO her.

Hitomi has had quite a few trials in her life as well. Things haven't been all peaches for her either.

Originally posted by AngryWorm
Am I to understand that losing is considered an accomplishment now? What kind of nonsense is that? lol

Loz's power doesn't really matter all that much. In a cross-over universe, I don't see Tifa being able to take down Hitomi. Remember, Hitomi doesn't need to kill Tifa, just KO her.

Hitomi has had quite a few trials in her life as well. Things haven't been all peaches for her either. It's not that black and white, stop pretending it is. Tifa didn't get "curbstomped" by Loz, she held her own, took his attacks, and actually held the advantage throughout most of the fight. Compared to Hitomi, who has statements that she did well against fighters who are nowhere near Loz's level.

In what way does it not matter? Tifa held her own against a foe stronger than any anyone Hitomi has fought. Tifa likewise only needs to KO Hitomi, and Tifa's proven durability easily eclipses Hitomi's, same with her strength.

"Trials?" What are you talking about?

Where did I say Tifa got curb stomped? She lost. Ultimately, you can't say that's something worth bragging about. Yes, you can glorify it all you like and say she went down fighting, and that it was close and an evenly matched battle - but she still lost.

You're missing the point. You're trying to compare very, very different universes. Hitomi's accomplishments in her own universe in one on one action exceed those of Tifa's. As a result, Hitomi is likely the better combatant in a cross-over for this particular set up.

Saying Tifa's power eclipses Hitomi's also is just blatantly wrong. Even in Dead Fantasy, Hitomi was portrayed as being the stronger woman. Durability wise, Hitomi is pretty tough as well, probably just as tough as Tifa. Hitomi also has more experience in this environment, and will not be gimped by not having materia.

The KO comment was towards the whole "Tifa took large amounts of punishment and didn't die". Not going for a fight to the death here.

Also, someone compared Loz to Jann Lee. Granted Loz is probably stronger, but they seem comparable if you look at their "feats", an attribute which I'm quickly starting to lose any faith in and I feel is a horrible way of measuring a characters ability.

In a one on one environment, Hitomi wins. Tifa's better suited on a team with access to materia then Hitomi is, not even I will deny that. But with the current stipulations in place, Hitomi is going to win. That's not a slight against Tifa - it's just that Hitomi is better in a one on one. People seem to be forgetting that this scenario seems heavily tilted in Hitomi's favor.

This was something I was going to mention earlier, but Nemebro beat me to it. The argument of Tifa facing stronger competition is an incredibly strong one in this instance. Loz is superior to Jann Lee across the board from what have actually been shown. Even if Tifa lost, neither Jann Lee or Hitomi has the feats to say they could replicate Loz's victory.

Based on what we've seen, Tifa is stronger/faster/more durable. Hitomi might be more skilled but she won't be able to compensate for the physical superiority of her opponent. Well, we can't really prove that she could anyway.

The problem with the "she is ranked higher in her own universe" argument, is that you could argue that Hitomi's opponents are weaker. Akira is ranked pretty high in Virtua Fighter, but Jann Lee would still probaly beat the shit out of him.

I also have to add that Dead Fantasy is not canon and can't be used unless Snafu is allowing that now.

I do understand your point Angry Worm, but it's hard to argue the case against characters who actually have decent showings. I used the argument in the Hitomi vs Asuka because Asuka didn't really have big time feats.

Originally posted by AngryWorm
Where did I say Tifa got curb stomped? She lost. Ultimately, you can't say that's something worth bragging about. Yes, you can glorify it all you like and say she went down fighting, and that it was close and an evenly matched battle - but she still lost.

You're missing the point. You're trying to compare very, very different universes. Hitomi's accomplishments in her own universe in one on one action exceed those of Tifa's. As a result, Hitomi is likely the better combatant in a cross-over for this particular set up.

Saying Tifa's power eclipses Hitomi's also is just blatantly wrong. Even in Dead Fantasy, Hitomi was portrayed as being the stronger woman. Durability wise, Hitomi is pretty tough as well, probably just as tough as Tifa. Hitomi also has more experience in this environment, and will not be gimped by not having materia.

The KO comment was towards the whole "Tifa took large amounts of punishment and didn't die". Not going for a fight to the death here.

Also, someone compared Loz to Jann Lee. Granted Loz is probably stronger, but they seem comparable if you look at their "feats", an attribute which I'm quickly starting to lose any faith in and I feel is a horrible way of measuring a characters ability.

In a one on one environment, Hitomi wins. Tifa's better suited on a team with access to materia then Hitomi is, not even I will deny that. But with the current stipulations in place, Hitomi is going to win. That's not a slight against Tifa - it's just that Hitomi is better in a one on one. People seem to be forgetting that this scenario seems heavily tilted in Hitomi's favor. 1. I never said you did, I was explaining the logic behind my own verdict on this fight. Yes, she lost, but she did better against Loz than Hitomi would.

2. This is where your logic fails, accomplishments relative to one's own universe are not relevant to how they would do in another one. Final Fantasy VII is a much more powerful verse than Dead or Alive, signifigantly so, so how they stack up in their own verses is not entirely relevant. But besides, Tifa is not much worse than a Remnant of Sephiroth, and other than Cloud and Vincent, did better against one than any member of the party. Hitomi succeeds one on one against far inferior opponents to Loz. And Tifa's demonstrated strength, speed, and definitely durability are superior to Hitomi's.

3. Then it's a good thing I didn't say her "power" eclipsed it, I said her "durability" did. Frankly, I don't care if Dead Fantasy showed her firing a nipple laser that annihilated all the stars in the sky, Dead Fantasy is not canon, not by any stretch of the word. Tifa's demonstrated physical power IS greater than Hitomi's, unless there is a feat I am forgetting somewhere. The notion that "Hitomi is probably just as durable as Tifa" is blatantly unfounded, Tifa took hits from Loz's gauntlet, which shattered that solid materia tree that was like a hundred feet tall. Hitomi has nothing on that. Tifa has been fighting longer than Hitomi has, and isn't stranger to fighting one on one, nor is she stranger to fighting without materia. It's not as much of a gimp as you seem to think.

4. Tifa took large amounts of punishment without being knocked out. Is that better? The punishment Tifa took is above anything Hitomi is proven to dish out.

5. "Probably" nothing, Loz is faster, stronger, and more durable. He would dominate Jann Lee without any effort. His demonstrated physical attributes are far above Lee's, or any DOA character in every way, except MAYBE Ryu Hayabusa in speed.

Please, do inform me why you dislike using "feats" as a gauge for abilities in a vs. thread?

6. Sure, I guess if you ignore how much stronger and more durable Tifa is, the fact that she has good showings against much more powerful opponents than anyone Hitomi has ever fought, and she is probably faster too, but don't quote me on that one.

Based on "what we've seen" I'd still disagree that Tifa is stronger and faster. Hitomi is more skilled, and I'm sold that she's weaker physically.

I feel like I'm just repeating myself haha. The universe argument is to create an even playing field for them both. Of course the FF universe is going to appear more powerful, but when you do the 'cross over', things balance out. Trying to compare DOA to FF is a waste of time. They're both dramatically different. In the FF Universe Hitomi would lose to Tifa, but in the DOA Universe Hitomi would beat Tifa. If you mix the two worlds together and scale each characters power level appropriately, then consider that Tifa is handicapped, less experienced, equally strong, and has a worse record and more familar to team fights, Hitomi has the edge.

Again, I don't like Tifa's feats. I don't really respect losing, and it doesn't sound like you guys accept the arguments I'm saying either. I can't see someone whose constantly losing in singles competition, regardless of who their fighting, defeating someone whose got the field stacked in their favor and more experienced. I know Loz was powerful, but Hayate is pretty powerful too, and Hitomi is likely around his level (in terms of pure martial arts ability anyway).

I think Dead Fantasy got it right *shrugs*. Tifa is not build to succeed in singles and Hitomi is.

Originally posted by AngryWorm
Based on "what we've seen" I'd still disagree that Tifa is stronger and faster. Hitomi is more skilled, and I'm sold that she's weaker physically.

I feel like I'm just repeating myself haha. The universe argument is to create an even playing field for them both. Of course the FF universe is going to appear more powerful, but when you do the 'cross over', things balance out.

Again, I don't like Tifa's feats. I don't really respect losing, and it doesn't sound like you guys accept the arguments I'm saying either. I can't see someone whose constantly losing in singles competition, regardless of who their fighting, defeating someone whose got the field stacked in their favor and more experienced.

I think Dead Fantasy got it right *shrugs*. Tifa is not build to succeed in singles and Hitomi is. Based on what we have seen Tifa is easily stronger and more durable, but admittedly speed is harder to argue.

The FF universe "appears" more powerful because it is more powerful.

Who would win, an average to crappy collegiate wrestler who doesn't win too often, vs. a kiddy league wrestler (Aged like 3-6)? Same principle.

Tifa isn't stronger and more durable. That's your opinion, much as it is mine that Hitomi is stronger and more durable.

The FF universe 'appears' more powerful because of the expansion of it's storyline. The characters in the DOA Universe are pretty powerful and strong as well, they just aren't as flushed out.

If you're comparing Hitomi to a little league wrestler and Tifa as a crappy collegiate wrestler - that's pretty insulting. The implications behind that are completely different then in this scenario, and I don't even think it's necessary to reply to such a ridiculous and moot point.

Again, Hitomi has proven to find ways to win against her opponents. She's not the most physically intimidating girl, but she is more than capable of handing Tifa in this type of environment.

No, Dead Fantasy is not being used. The Tifa/Hitomi fight in Dead Fantasy is based on the director's POV. I want you to come to you conclusion from what we've seen of these to in DOA and Final Fantasy (Disidia included)

Originally posted by AngryWorm
Tifa isn't stronger and more durable. That's your opinion, much as it is mine that Hitomi is stronger and more durable.

The FF universe 'appears' more powerful because of the expansion of it's storyline. The characters in the DOA Universe are pretty powerful and strong as well, they just aren't as flushed out.

If you're comparing Hitomi to a little league wrestler and Tifa as a crappy collegiate wrestler - that's pretty insulting. The implications behind that are completely different then in this scenario, and I don't even think it's necessary to reply to such a ridiculous and moot point.

Again, Hitomi has proven to find ways to win against her opponents. She's not the most physically intimidating girl, but she is more than capable of handing Tifa in this type of environment. 1. Uh, no, Tifa has better PROVEN showings in strength and durability, as well as probably speed, than Hitomi. If you have something to suggest otherwise, feel free to post a link or direct me to where I may find proof of this, but based on showings thus far Tifa IS superior.

2. No, it "appears" more powerful because in the first game the main villain was crashing a meteor into the planet and was going to drink the life of the planet and become a god. It "appears" more powerful because several characters are proven to be able to casually deflect and dodge automatic gunfire. It "appears" more powerful because it has beings like Omega who can absorb all life on the planet. It "appears" more powerful because Sephiroth can topple skyscrapers with a gesture of his hand. Based on showings and statements, FFVII is a much more powerful verse. You say they are powerful, but we don't see that power, why should I take your word for it?

3. Why? Some characters are just much stronger than others. I'm not even saying Tifa is a better fighter than Hitomi, just that her physical attributes give her a signifigant edge.

4. Why? Because you are arbitrarily inventing some "crossover world" where you are weakening Tifa and discounting her showings so that she can be closer to her level? That's nonsense, it's illogical.

Originally posted by NemeBro
1. Uh, no, Tifa has better PROVEN showings in strength and durability, as well as probably speed, than Hitomi. If you have something to suggest otherwise, feel free to post a link or direct me to where I may find proof of this, but based on showings thus far Tifa IS superior.

2. No, it "appears" more powerful because in the first game the main villain was crashing a meteor into the planet and was going to drink the life of the planet and become a god. It "appears" more powerful because several characters are proven to be able to casually deflect and dodge automatic gunfire. It "appears" more powerful because it has beings like Omega who can absorb all life on the planet. It "appears" more powerful because Sephiroth can topple skyscrapers with a gesture of his hand. Based on showings and statements, FFVII is a much more powerful verse. You say they are powerful, but we don't see that power, why should I take your word for it?

3. Why? Some characters are just much stronger than others. I'm not even saying Tifa is a better fighter than Hitomi, just that her physical attributes give her a signifigant edge.

4. Why? Because you are arbitrarily inventing some "crossover world" where you are weakening Tifa and discounting her showings so that she can be closer to her level? That's nonsense, it's illogical.

1. Uh, yes. Hitomi is more powerful. Feel free to post something to change my mind. I see no reason that I should have to prove Hitomi's strength advantage over Tifa, and I could post until I'm blue in the face - it still wouldn't satisfy you, so there isn't any point. Prove to ME that Tifa's stronger than Hitomi...

Also show me a one on one that Tifa actually wins... oh wait, that's right - you can't.

2. I'm happy for the meteors crashing into Final Fantasy's world. What does that have to do with anything? DOA has exploding skyscrapers and has powerful entities in Alpha and Omega too. Not that drastically different then anything in FF. Ever see the cutscene of Hayate wrecking all the people shooting their guns? Hitomi beats him. So she's got some speed I dare say. Besides, a lot of that has nothing to do with the scenario in question.

3. Yep. Some characters are just stronger than others. However, Tifa isn't stronger than Hitomi all. The advantage you're suggesting she has here is completely unrealistic. It's close, and I'd even give Hitomi the edge in terms of brute strength, and it isn't just me who thinks that.

4. Hitomi's stronger and a better figther than Tifa, why do you keep slandering Hitomi by suggesting that Tifa is better than Hitomi in her strongest field while singles combat is something Tifa struggles with? That's even more ridiculous. Even without the cross-over "universe" Hitomi would still kick Tifa's ass in this scenario.

Originally posted by AngryWorm
1. Uh, yes. Hitomi is more powerful. Feel free to post something to change my mind. *Shrug*

2. I'm happy for the meteors crashing into Final Fantasy's world. What does that have to do with anything? DOA Crashes skyscrapers and has powerful entities in Alpha and Omega too. Not that drastically different then anything in FF.

3. Yep. Some characters are just stronger than others. However, Tifa isn't stronger than Hitomi all. The advantage you're suggesting she has here is completely unrealistic. It's close, and I'd even give Hitomi the edge in terms of brute strength.

4. Hitomi's stronger and a better figther than Tifa, why do you keep slandering Hitomi by suggesting that Tifa is better than Hitomi in her strongest field while singles combat is something Tifa struggles with? That's even more ridiculous. Even without the cross-over "universe" Hitomi would still kick Tifa's ass in this scenario. 1. Contrary to what you seem to believe, "No u" is not an argument. You have been claiming Hitomi the superior opponent all thread without proving anything, you made the positive claim, I ask you to prove it, burden of proof is on you.

2. No. Nothing you just mentioned has anything next to destroying all life on the planet, and when Ayane destroyed the skyscraper she did, it was a long, drawn out, charged ninjutsu. Sephiroth waved his hand and tore it in half. And so you never played FFVII huh? Sephiroth is the one who used the meteor, using Black Materia, though really, I don't need Black Materia to prove my point: FFVII is a vastly more powerful verse than DOA. The single most powerful entity in the shared universe of Dead or Alive and Ninja Gaiden is the Vigoorian Emperor, who, were we to believe hyperbole, split the world in half, which is impressive, but also as I said serious hyperbole, and is only a legend. We have confirmed feats from the big players of FFVII destroying all life on planets, and even using planets as vessels to travel the stars. FFVII is more powerful, deal.

3. Only if you ignore all the evidence that says Tifa IS stronger. Show me a strength feat from Hitomi, by all means. The difference in physical attributes is not as close as you seem to think, and Tifa has the advantage in all three main areas, strength, speed, and durability.

4. Yeah sure I guess if you ignore that evidence suggests Tifa is superior in every physical way, skill being the only possible area Hitomi outshines her, and even that is not really provable.

1. Interestingly enough, you're doing the exact same thing. You're claiming Tifa is better without any substance to back it up. This argument is just pointless banter and completely non-costructive at this point.

2. I played FF7. It was okay I guess. I'm guessing you have and are an FF fan, which is fine. But I've noticed that franchise fans tend to overrate their characters. I do the same with characters I'm passionate about, but have since started looking more objectively. Being a fan of both Hitomi and Tifa, I'm pretty familiar with what both are capable of. Tifa is fantastic a lot of things, unfortunately, Hitomi is better than her when it comes to using fists.

Anyways, I read up to 'black materia' and stopped, since materia isn't available in this scenario thus making the rest of the paragraph of non-interest to me. This isn't about universe vs. universe, that's a completely different debate. This is Hitomi vs Tifa. You're not looking at this objectively for the scenario, you're looking at the 'bigger picture'.

3. See argument 1.

4. Yeah sure I guess if you ignore that evidence suggests Tifa is superior in every physical way, skill being the only possible area Hitomi outshines her, and even that is not really provable.

4. It's pretty probable, and Hitomi is physically just as capable as Tifa. Read the comments on the Dead Fantasy videos and you'll find that many people agree with that statement.

Look, I'm not trying to be crude, but a lot of the 'Well the FF universe is stronger so therefore Tifa wins' argument doesn't hold up that well, at least with me. Tifa's a great fighter, but not in 1 vs 1. She's lost everytime (I don't care how powerful Loz is, she still lost), and she's use to fighting as a team. Physically they're both about the same, and trying to suggest one is more dominant than the other is fanboyism from both sides. Hitomi is more experienced in this field, which is pretty tough to argue.

In this scenario, the odds are stacked in Hitomi's favor. Tifa just flat out doesn't win, and it's not because she's bad - it's because Hitomi's fighting under her terms, without handicap, and in a familiar zone.

Originally posted by Zack Fair
He is a remnant of Sephiroth himself, that alone makes him top tier in the FFverse.

FF7verse.

We win?

But yeah, Hitomi.

Originally posted by NemeBro
It's not that black and white, stop pretending it is. Tifa didn't get "curbstomped" by Loz, she held her own, took his attacks, and actually held the advantage throughout most of the fight. Compared to Hitomi, who has statements that she did well against fighters who are nowhere near Loz's level.

In what way does it not matter? Tifa held her own against a foe stronger than any anyone Hitomi has fought. Tifa likewise only needs to KO Hitomi, and Tifa's proven durability easily eclipses Hitomi's, same with her strength.

"Trials?" What are you talking about?

Hrm, the thing is, Tifa went from being quick enough to dodge his attacks when he's right in front of her, to being caught flatfooted by his speed when he's halfway across the room.

I think he was toying with her. Even his little distraction of tossing furniture at her doesn't account for how completely he caught her off guard, as she was looking right in his direction.

Originally posted by Snafu the Great
You've seen the fight in Dead Fantasy, but despite how awesome that was, it could have been much better without the handicaps (Tifa - the materia; Hitomi - Hayate and the Mugen Tenshin)

I think it was about as awesome as it could've been, personally.

The 1 vs 1 in episode 3 was a damned near perfect old school kung fu throwdown. I haven't played a single Dead or Alive game, but I just had to back Hitomi as she was stumbling around, blinded by her own blood.

And episode 5 simply made Tifa look badass. And judging by Hitomi's reaction, I don't think she wanted Hayates help... I wouldn't be surprised if Hitomi and Tifa don't end up fighting on the same side at some point in this series.

Originally posted by cdtm
I think it was about as awesome as it could've been, personally.

The 1 vs 1 in episode 3 was a damned near perfect old school kung fu throwdown. I haven't played a single Dead or Alive game, but I just had to back Hitomi as she was stumbling around, blinded by her own blood.

And episode 5 simply made Tifa look badass. And judging by Hitomi's reaction, I don't think she wanted Hayates help... I wouldn't be surprised if Hitomi and Tifa don't end up fighting on the same side at some point in this series.

It is my favorite fight in the series because it is 1on1 and we can easily tell what is going on. I was rooting for Hitomi because Tifa was being a cheap bastard abusing her materia in episode 2.

And I don't think it was her blood that blinded Hitomi but Tifa casting Darkness on her with the materia.

I really like how Monty incorporates the magic and materia into the fights. Square and many others could learn much from him.

Originally posted by Zack Fair
It is my favorite fight in the series because it is 1on1 and we can easily tell what is going on. I was rooting for Hitomi because Tifa was being a cheap bastard abusing her materia in episode 2.

Glad to hear I'm not the only one who feels this way.

The Final Fantasy fans are pretty vocal about never wanting to see a FF character look bad, and keep on making excuses for Tifa losing or just dismissing it outright..

It's kind of telling that some fans claim the series stopped being good after the second video, when that's the last time FF had a clear advantage.



Yeah, I read that in the Dead Fantasy wiki. Initially thought it was blood, because of some of it dripping on the floor.



Yeah, he does magic/materia very well. Episode II stands out, but I like how Yuna's summons also worked..

And it's great how magic is a clear cut advantage, yet pure fighters are still buff enough to hold their own against it. Monty pretty much Genndy Tartakovsky'd them up.

Originally posted by cdtm
Glad to hear I'm not the only one who feels this way.

The Final Fantasy fans are pretty vocal about never wanting to see a FF character look bad, and keep on making excuses for Tifa losing or just dismissing it outright..

It's kind of telling that some fans claim the series stopped being good after the second video, when that's the last time FF had a clear advantage.

Most of these "fans" are the hardcore FF7 fans who believe Cloud and Sephiroth > every single being in existence. Their fanboyism is off the charts and we're better off just ignoring them.

We are all entitled to our opinion, and this includes those retarded fanboys, but the fights are becoming more personal and now have character--case in point Yuna vs Kasumi--which is a lot better to me.

Originally posted by cdtm

Yeah, I read that in the Dead Fantasy wiki. Initially thought it was blood, because of some of it dripping on the floor.

Yeah, he does magic/materia very well. Episode II stands out, but I like how Yuna's summons also worked..

And it's great how magic is a clear cut advantage, yet pure fighters are still buff enough to hold their own against it. Monty pretty much Genndy Tartakovsky'd them up.

I agree about the Yuna fight. I had a nerdgasm when she went Summoner. It was sad how Bahamut was defeated before the mega flare was fired, but the clones were smart about it.

The FF cast is shown to be more powerful while the DOA cast is more skilled.

I just wonder how Rachel will fare against Rinoa because Monty made Rinoa into a haxx0rZ God and Rachel is strong but not that strong or skilled...yet.

Vincent vs Hayabusa will be EPIC

---
BTW have you seen Monty's work in Red Vs Blue?

About DF - I just think its funny that none of the ff villains are being used. Or even the higher tier heroes, like Bartz or Cecil. Monty must be a fan of the newer FF's.
That said, I'm a HUGE fan of his work, and I really like what he's been doing at RvB.

On topic, though. Tifa's fists are said to be as devastating as Cloud's sword in combat. Given Cloud's ridiculous sword feats in AC, that would say a lot about Tifa's strength alone.
Also, the lack of materia gives Tifa a bigger advantage, as materia actually decreases the user's physical attributes when they are equipped.

Originally posted by MadMel
About DF - I just think its funny that none of the ff villains are being used. Or even the higher tier heroes, like Bartz or Cecil. Monty must be a fan of the newer FF's.
That said, I'm a HUGE fan of his work, and I really like what he's been doing at RvB.

On topic, though. Tifa's fists are said to be as devastating as Cloud's sword in combat. Given Cloud's ridiculous sword feats in AC, that would say a lot about Tifa's strength alone.
Also, the lack of materia gives Tifa a bigger advantage, as materia actually decreases the user's physical attributes when they are equipped.

I don't think that the strength benefits of not having materia will outweigh the negatives of not having access too it.

I think Monty got it right with Hitomi winning. Tifa's out of her element in this match, and Hitom's just too good at one vs one combat.

The amount of materia Tifa had in DF would have cut her strength down to nearly a half what it really is.
If Dissidia counts in the match, then Tifa's wins via her limit break alone.

DF isn't cannon and isn't really being used in this scenario. Besides, Tifa seemed useless without her materia.

Pretty sure limit breaks aren't suppose to be included in the set up either, but that isn't my place to comment. I think it was a straight up martial arts match, which Hitomi would win.

Originally posted by MadMel
The amount of materia Tifa had in DF would have cut her strength down to nearly a half what it really is.


Not necessarily.

If she used Master Magic materia, she could have all the spells and zero stat penalties.

The rest could be support, independent, command, or summon materia.

Originally posted by AngryWorm
DF isn't cannon and isn't really being used in this scenario. Besides, Tifa seemed useless without her materia.
Wrong. Tifa is hardly useless without magic. The fact that she can use it in conjunction with her martial arts proves how good a fighter she is.

Originally posted by AngryWorm
Pretty sure limit breaks aren't suppose to be included in the set up either, but that isn't my place to comment. I think it was a straight up martial arts match, which Hitomi would win.
Hitomi MAY be more skilled, but Tifa has much better strength and speed feats. Besides, lack of materia doesn't affect her limit breaks. One final heaven would finish Hitomi IMO.

Originally posted by cdtm
Not necessarily.

If she used Master Magic materia, she could have all the spells and zero stat penalties.

The rest could be support, independent, command, or summon materia.
She had about 12 materia on her person in DF, and she used about 6 different kinds of magic. Furthermore, when Hitomi stole her materia they both started using magic simultaneously. I doubt that Tifa had any master or summon materia.

Originally posted by MadMel

She had about 12 materia on her person in DF, and she used about 6 different kinds of magic. Furthermore, when Hitomi stole her materia they both started using magic simultaneously. I doubt that Tifa had any master or summon materia.

The one green materia Hitomi picked up let her use quake, fire, and lightning.

Sounds like Master Magic to me.

When they showed all the materia on Tifa at the start of the fight, only four or five of them were green "magic" materia. A fairly negligible penalty, considering the elemental damage and advantages gained from blind and poison.

So Tifa had a master magic and several other magic materia?
Either way, its not canon, so it doesn't make much difference.

Originally posted by MadMel
So Tifa had a master magic and several other magic materia?
Either way, its not canon, so it doesn't make much difference.

The other magic materia could be for elemental damage purposes.

Or, she had multiple master magics.

Which makes sense in the Dead Fantasy-verse, where you could lose individual materia mid battle.

That's where I draw the line. If you could lose materia just by being kicked in the head, Sephiroth would have won in FF7... Easily... In a number of situations.

Tifa wasn't useless without materia. She was just unable to adapt to Hitomi's change of style. uhuh

Hitomi wins because she's a better character.

Subjective.

But true.

I disagree. Tifa has the better development as a character and is more fleshed out IMO.

Originally posted by Zack Fair
I disagree. Tifa has the better development as a character and is more fleshed out IMO.

Exactly.

Hitomi is great, but to claim any KOF character is more fleshed out than any FF character is false.

More development and being fleshed out doesn't necessarily mean better :P

"More development and being fleshed out doesn't necessarily mean better. :P"

That's usually exactly what it means.

Originally posted by AngryWorm
1. Interestingly enough, you're doing the exact same thing. You're claiming Tifa is better without any substance to back it up. This argument is just pointless banter and completely non-costructive at this point.

2. I played FF7. It was okay I guess. I'm guessing you have and are an FF fan, which is fine. But I've noticed that franchise fans tend to overrate their characters. I do the same with characters I'm passionate about, but have since started looking more objectively. Being a fan of both Hitomi and Tifa, I'm pretty familiar with what both are capable of. Tifa is fantastic a lot of things, unfortunately, Hitomi is better than her when it comes to using fists.

Anyways, I read up to 'black materia' and stopped, since materia isn't available in this scenario thus making the rest of the paragraph of non-interest to me. This isn't about universe vs. universe, that's a completely different debate. This is Hitomi vs Tifa. You're not looking at this objectively for the scenario, you're looking at the 'bigger picture'.

3. See argument 1.

4. Yeah sure I guess if you ignore that evidence suggests Tifa is superior in every physical way, skill being the only possible area Hitomi outshines her, and even that is not really provable.

4. It's pretty probable, and Hitomi is physically just as capable as Tifa. Read the comments on the Dead Fantasy videos and you'll find that many people agree with that statement.

Look, I'm not trying to be crude, but a lot of the 'Well the FF universe is stronger so therefore Tifa wins' argument doesn't hold up that well, at least with me. Tifa's a great fighter, but not in 1 vs 1. She's lost everytime (I don't care how powerful Loz is, she still lost), and she's use to fighting as a team. Physically they're both about the same, and trying to suggest one is more dominant than the other is fanboyism from both sides. Hitomi is more experienced in this field, which is pretty tough to argue.

In this scenario, the odds are stacked in Hitomi's favor. Tifa just flat out doesn't win, and it's not because she's bad - it's because Hitomi's fighting under her terms, without handicap, and in a familiar zone. 1. *Sigh*

Only I'm not. I'm using the fight between Tifa and Loz as evidence, do you want me to post it?

AGI38w0HhPA

Based on this, actual on-screen evidence, Tifa is superior, will highlight why later in my post.

2. You can guess to whatever you want, but frankly, I'm not really a "fan" of Final Fantasy, and not really VII in particular. Please don't attempt to discredit me by stating that as a FFVII fan I overrate them, I don't, you simply underrate them.

Maybe if you had read the rest you would have noticed that not everything was materia-related. You claimed that people are assuming that FFVII is the stronger verse, I simply stated what is fact, it's thought of as stronger because it is.

3. Uhuh.

We see Tifa take a direct punch in the face from Loz's gauntlet and continue fighting. Hitomi has no durability feat to compare.

We see Tifa react mid-air and bracing herself to land without injury on a wall after being thrown by Loz, due to how the flower's reacted after she hit the wall, I am pretty sure that means she was thrown at supersonic speeds (I think? Admittedly am struggling to remember what that effect means). But regardless, is a better speed and durability feat than what Hitomi has.

We see her at several points manhandle Loz, and while Loz is physically stronger, it still demonstrates the amount of strength she can exert on a human-sized opponent. Oh and she casually shatters the bench thrown at her by Loz.

Then of course there is this:

HYmlJoCk7uU

Her strength feat at 2:08 is superior to anything Hitomi has shown, throwing Cloud thousands of feet above her at supersonic speeds to attack Bahamut Sin.

Tifa is stronger, faster, and more durable, as I have shown.

4. Physically Hitomi is not near as capable of Tifa. Prove up or shut up. I give not a single shit what some person on Youtube (There has never been a more wretched hive of scum and villainy) said in the comments.

Physically, Tifa is far superior. Tifa has held her own against opponents that would casually and effortlessly snap Hitomi in half (Loz). This is based on objective evidence I have posted. If you have no counter to this evidence to prove your own case, your argument is not a credible one. Tifa fights in teams more often, sure... But she still fights opponents that would crush Hitomi even if Hitomi had help from anyone not named Ryu Hayabusa in DoA. Also notice Tifa had no Materia against Loz.

Tifa's strength feats are better, her speed feats are better, her durability feats are better, physically she is better.

It means she's more in depth and her character has been more explored. That has nothing to do with how "good" they are.

1. Congratulations, you posted a match that has Tifa losing in singles combat. I've seen that fight like, twenty times.

Based on the on screen evidence, Tifa loses in a one vs one scenario. Yes, it's impressive, but the fact that Loz was toying with her for a majority of the fight and pretty much takes her out with two hits doesn't build a fantastic strong case as to how Tifa is stronger than Hitomi.

2. You seemed pretty quick to pass judgment on me, I was only returning the favor and 'speculating' an opinion. I'm not under rating any of the FF7 characters. In fact, if you read a lot of my posts you'd actually see that I go out of my way to state that I don't think they're weak. I think Tifa is out of her element in singles combat, and yes I do believe Hitomi is capable of beating her, but never do I say 'Tifa is a weak character.'

This scenario is heavily titled in Hitomi's favor - it isn't a knock on Tifa that she loses. Hitomi is by no means a weak character, losing to her isn't that unimaginable or at least shouldn't be. Tifa just struggles in singles environments, which is something that continues to be over looked.

I'm not discussing anything related to the universes since it's not especially relevant to this match up. If you're just going to say 'FF world is more powerful then DOA world" then that's your opinion - however, as stated before, it doesn't really have much of an implication on this match. It's literally just two martial artists squaring off, which takes a lot of any edge the FF world has away. The characters in DOA take a lot of insane bumps of their own - falling off bridges, waterfalls, etc. Grabbing onto a wall doesn't seem that fantastic in comparison.

3. Ya-huh.

Tifa pretty much gets taken out in one or two hits from Loz. Not to mention, she ultimately loses the fight. The whole fight with Loz isn't really a strong point for Tifa in this match, since all it does is discredit her ability to get the job done one on one. At least Hitomi's managed to beat several highly regarded DOA characters.

You're making speculation about the speeds that the fight are occurring at. Lets face it - we don't know how fast she was or wasn't going, and to compare an unknown to an unknown isn't a great argument for either side.

She 'manhandled' Loz because, as pointed out earlier, he wasn't taking her seriously for a majority of the fight. Hitomi also combats physically stronger opponents and comes out victorious as well.

I'm glad that Tifa can throw Cloud. Again, you're speculating about the speed.

All you've really shown was that a) Tifa is super strong and b) Tifa still sucks at one on ones. Physically, Hitomi is pretty impressive herself. Even if Tifa is physically stronger, which I still do not believe is the case, Hitomi's got the experience and success advantage heading into this match.

Do I have youtube videos of Hitomi shattering benches? No, I can't say as I do. However, Hitomi's defeated opponents who have some impressive feats of there own (Hayate). Therefore, she's clearly a capable fighter.

You seem to be repeating yourself from here on in. You're not looking at this objectively. All these 'feats' Tifa supposedly has, yet she always comes up short in singles combat. That to me tells more of a story than anything.

Your argument isn't especially credible either, I hate to point that out to you. You're entire argument is that "Tifa's stronger because I have a video that says so and the FF world is stronger and blah blah" isn't factoring the rest of the scenario. Looking at the people Hitomi's beaten should be evidence enough that she could handle Tifa, regardless of whether or not we see it. She's beaten Lei Fang, Jann Lee, and Hayate - which is more than we've ever seen Tifa accomplish on her own.

Tifa doesn't have materia access
Tifa has never won singles fights

Hitomi's more experienced
Hitomi is a better fighter
Hitomi's actually won one on ones
Hitomi is one of the strongest Dead or Alive fighters

I just can't get over the fact Tifa hasn't won a singles match against anyone. That to me is a huge sticking point. She could have the power advantage, but at the end of the day I don't see her defeating someone of Hitomi's caliber.

Hitomi's one on one feats are better, she's a more successful fighter, and she's less gimped by the scenario. Physically she's proven herself against Hayate and others in the DOA universe, and while it may not be on youtube, is one very powerful chick.

Originally posted by NemeBro

Based on this, actual on-screen evidence, Tifa is superior, will highlight why later in my post.

Technically, without any actual feats we don't know how strong Hitomi really is..

That's the beauty of Dead Fantasy. The DOA characters can be however strong without contradicting anything, because there's nothing to contradict.. (Not that it matters anyways, any more than the Samurai Jack creator contradicting movie canon with his Clone Wars toon mattered, because of how awesome it was executed..)

Tifa wins because she has something to argue with.

That's the point several have tried to make here. You can't provide any real evidence that Hitomi wins, but you can provide evidence why Tifa wins. It's a litte unreasonable to give Hitomi the win.

For example, I could say that Tifa grabs Hitomi at max speed and tosses her into the sky. It's an argument I can make because Tifa has demonstrated she is capable of that. Hitomi hasn't proven she is capable of defending herself from that. Her victories are irrelevant because none of her opponents could replicate what Tifa did. Hitomi has never demonstrated that kind of speed or strength, while Tifa has. You can't really argue against it.

Also, when did Hitomi beat Hayate in canon?

Originally posted by StyleTime


Also, when did Hitomi beat Hayate in canon?

She didn't.. They only had a warmup sparring match in the fourth tournament.

But she did match Ayane's ninjitsu.

One of Tifa's best feats is merely surviving against Sephiroth, someone who is strong enough, fast enough and magically powerful enough to deal with multiple people of Tifa's caliber without breaking a sweat. Lets face it, it's not something Hitomi (or perhaps anyone in DOA) would be capable of, even if she was in in a group of three.
If Dissidia counts then Tifa has also fought 1v1 against Sephy.

I remember reading Hitomi defeated Hayate somewhere. Could have been a bum source though.

It's pretty tough to make arguments as to why Tifa would win when all she's done is continuously lose in one on ones. The limit break argument or whatnot could work, however I was under the impression this was just a straight up martial arts fight.

Even if Tifa is stronger, Hitomi's the better fighter. More experienced, better record, more intelligent (at fighting) etc. I'd like to think that she'd be able to solve Tifa. The only thing going for Tifa is her exposure in cut scenes and movies, and even in that she still loses.

Really all I've heard is 'Well Loz is better than anything in the DOA Universe and Tifa fought him and lost so she's stronger than Hitomi because she was stylin as she did it'. I'm sure if Loz was toying with Hitomi, he could make her look impressive too before beating her based on that scenario. Not to mention, Tifa lost too, which technically means she's weaker than Loz as well.

I've also heard that 'Tifa's stronger than Hitomi physically' , which using on screen "feats" is pretty tough to argue that Tifa is physically awesome. However, people are discrediting Hitomi's ability to defeat more powerful opponents, which she has done in the past. At least to me that indicates that she's a very intelligent fighter who knows how to win.

That's how I see it. It may be tough to find feats for Hitomi, but the girl knows how to win, and proved herself to be as good as Ayane in DOA: Dimensions. To me, Tifa's best options aren't available in this match up due to the stipulations. Yes she's strong, but in one on ones she's never had much success. I guess it boils down to how good people think Hitomi is, since it's difficult to get an actual measure of her strength, but her achievements (in one on ones, since I don't want another 'Tifa saved the world' argument) seem to outshine Tifa.

That's how I see it, but that's just me.

Originally posted by MadMel
One of Tifa's best feats is merely surviving against Sephiroth, someone who is strong enough, fast enough and magically powerful enough to deal with multiple people of Tifa's caliber without breaking a sweat. Lets face it, it's not something Hitomi (or perhaps anyone in DOA) would be capable of, even if she was in in a group of three.
If Dissidia counts then Tifa has also fought 1v1 against Sephy.

Like I said, Hitomi did fight with Ayane and match her ninjitsu.

The same Ayane who appears as a playable character in the Ninja Gaiden series with Ryu Hayabusa. That has to count for something. (And from a google search, I can see Ayane vs Tifa was treated like a pretty close match on these boards... Both had their supporters.)

Originally posted by AngryWorm
1. Congratulations, you posted a match that has Tifa losing in singles combat. I've seen that fight like, twenty times.

Based on the on screen evidence, Tifa loses in a one vs one scenario. Yes, it's impressive, but the fact that Loz was toying with her for a majority of the fight and pretty much takes her out with two hits doesn't build a fantastic strong case as to how Tifa is stronger than Hitomi.

2. You seemed pretty quick to pass judgment on me, I was only returning the favor and 'speculating' an opinion. I'm not under rating any of the FF7 characters. In fact, if you read a lot of my posts you'd actually see that I go out of my way to state that I don't think they're weak. I think Tifa is out of her element in singles combat, and yes I do believe Hitomi is capable of beating her, but never do I say 'Tifa is a weak character.'

This scenario is heavily titled in Hitomi's favor - it isn't a knock on Tifa that she loses. Hitomi is by no means a weak character, losing to her isn't that unimaginable or at least shouldn't be. Tifa just struggles in singles environments, which is something that continues to be over looked.

I'm not discussing anything related to the universes since it's not especially relevant to this match up. If you're just going to say 'FF world is more powerful then DOA world" then that's your opinion - however, as stated before, it doesn't really have much of an implication on this match. It's literally just two martial artists squaring off, which takes a lot of any edge the FF world has away. The characters in DOA take a lot of insane bumps of their own - falling off bridges, waterfalls, etc. Grabbing onto a wall doesn't seem that fantastic in comparison.

3. Ya-huh.

Tifa pretty much gets taken out in one or two hits from Loz. Not to mention, she ultimately loses the fight. The whole fight with Loz isn't really a strong point for Tifa in this match, since all it does is discredit her ability to get the job done one on one. At least Hitomi's managed to beat several highly regarded DOA characters.

You're making speculation about the speeds that the fight are occurring at. Lets face it - we don't know how fast she was or wasn't going, and to compare an unknown to an unknown isn't a great argument for either side.

She 'manhandled' Loz because, as pointed out earlier, he wasn't taking her seriously for a majority of the fight. Hitomi also combats physically stronger opponents and comes out victorious as well.

I'm glad that Tifa can throw Cloud. Again, you're speculating about the speed.

All you've really shown was that a) Tifa is super strong and b) Tifa still sucks at one on ones. Physically, Hitomi is pretty impressive herself. Even if Tifa is physically stronger, which I still do not believe is the case, Hitomi's got the experience and success advantage heading into this match.

Do I have youtube videos of Hitomi shattering benches? No, I can't say as I do. However, Hitomi's defeated opponents who have some impressive feats of there own (Hayate). Therefore, she's clearly a capable fighter.

You seem to be repeating yourself from here on in. You're not looking at this objectively. All these 'feats' Tifa supposedly has, yet she always comes up short in singles combat. That to me tells more of a story than anything.

Your argument isn't especially credible either, I hate to point that out to you. You're entire argument is that "Tifa's stronger because I have a video that says so and the FF world is stronger and blah blah" isn't factoring the rest of the scenario. Looking at the people Hitomi's beaten should be evidence enough that she could handle Tifa, regardless of whether or not we see it. She's beaten Lei Fang, Jann Lee, and Hayate - which is more than we've ever seen Tifa accomplish on her own.

Tifa doesn't have materia access
Tifa has never won singles fights

Hitomi's more experienced
Hitomi is a better fighter
Hitomi's actually won one on ones
Hitomi is one of the strongest Dead or Alive fighters

I just can't get over the fact Tifa hasn't won a singles match against anyone. That to me is a huge sticking point. She could have the power advantage, but at the end of the day I don't see her defeating someone of Hitomi's caliber.

Hitomi's one on one feats are better, she's a more successful fighter, and she's less gimped by the scenario. Physically she's proven herself against Hayate and others in the DOA universe, and while it may not be on youtube, is one very powerful chick. 1. And you have posted absolutely nothing in favor of Hitomi.

Loz was fighting back the entire time, the only real difference was the fact that he began using Haste.

2. You must think she is quite weak if you truly believe Hitomi can beat Tifa. Hitomi is a weak character in comparison, or rather, she has no showings to suggest she is near Tifa's level. Bridges and waterfalls? Tifa lands comfortably after falling hundreds to thousands of feet after throwing Cloud at Bahamut Sin.

3. Actually Loz attacked her a few times, many of said blows Tifa blocks or dodges. The fact that she can block an attack from Loz is another showing in her favor. Hitomi beating some characters much weaker than Loz without showing the actual feat isn't much of a showing.

Well I do know that the speeds in the fight demonstrated are considerably greater than what Hitomi has shown.

Hitomi has never fought anyone nearly as strong as Loz.

Only we can see the sonic boom. Not like supersonic speeds are special in Final Fantasy. Tifa has fought and beaten SOLDIER Second and First classes, whom are capable of easily blocking and dodging machine-gun fire. And she threw him thousands of feet upwards in the air, overpowering gravity as well. It's a better strength feat than what anyone in DoA has.

Denial is the only reason you could ever believe Hitomi is nearly as strong as Tifa. Or as fast or durable. Tifa did very well against Loz. Hitomi has fought people Tifa or Loz could casually crush.

She hasn't defeated Hayate, and Hayate himself isn't proven to be as powerful as Tifa. Stop.

She comes up short in singles combat against a foe far superior to anything Hitomi has faced.

Lei Fang, Jann Lee, and Hayate are not proven to be stronger than Tifa either. And once more, she didn't beat Hayate. My argument isn't credible? You're asserting that Hitomi is physically just as capable as Tifa based on nothing, short of denial. Tifa's feats in all the general physical areas, strength, speed, and durability, far eclipse Hitomi's, to the extent that Hitomi's fist would be hard-pressed to even injure Tifa. Tifa takes punches in the chin from Loz's gauntlet, that's a great deal more force than what Hitomi can physically output. Just because a child can beat up a child doesn't mean they could beat up even an average to somewhat bad UFC fighter.

Hitomi's more experienced? Tifa has fought things that could chew the entire DoA cast up and spit it out, with the exception of Ryu Hayabusa.
Better fighter? Based on what exactly? Her beating up people who are garbage compared to Tifa and who she has fought?
Hitomi has won one on ones against people who suck compared to Tifa.
Dead or Alive is weak.

Tifa's physical showings are better. She could lay Hitomi out with a punch. No matter Hitomi's alleged skill, at the end of the day Tifa is so physically superior based on showings it really doesn't matter.

You are asserting Hitomi wins based on flawed logic and hearsay. Stop.

I've posted plenty in favor of Hitomi - you just choose not to acknowledge it.

Yes, Loz was fighting, but as suggested here by others he was toying with Tifa for most of the fight. I still don't understand the point you're trying to prove here. Tifa lost a fight against someone more powerful than her. That's a negative feat it anything

I don't view Tifa as weak, but in a 1 vs 1 I think Hitomi would beat her quite handily, as would most high end fighting game characters in this provided scenario. Hitomi's strongest field is in 1vs1, trying to suggest otherwise is ridiculous.

The whole falling off a waterfall was merely to show you that the DOA characters take pretty substantial bumps themselves. Compare it to Tifa lobbing Clod up into the air if you want, but it's much easier landing on your own power than it is being flung off a cliff.

Loz only really hit her once or twice. She evaded some of the blows, but she was still taken down rather easily. The difference between Hitomi and Tifa, is that Hitomi's actually beaten people. Weaker than Loz? Yeah, Jann Lee and Lei Fang are, but so is Tifa. Beating Loz isn't the objective, it's beating Tifa. Since Loz is more powerful then both of them it's not that important.

As mentioned above, Hitomi's proven to be as strong as Ayane (DOA: D story), a character who was apparently cited as being competitive against Tifa.

The speed thing is opinion.

Hitomi's fought Ayane, Hayate - maybe not as strong as Loz, but at least she can hang with the top tier talent, and she's actually won.

Denial is the only reason you could ever believe Tifa could beat Hitomi. She's a better fighter, more experienced, etc, etc. Tifa's strong yes, but so is Hitomi. You're not acknowledging anything she does as being significant. Tifa lost against Loz, who wasn't trying all that hard against her from what I've been told here. Suggesting Hitomi would get crushed by Loz is pretty unreasonable.

Hayate would rip Tifa apart in this particular scenario.

Tifa always comes up short in singles combat. Stop making excuses for her. It's just her character.

Your argument really isn't any more credible than mine. You've suggested that Loz is better than anyone in the DOA world, and that Tifa losing to him makes her amazing. Do you not see the flawed logic behind that? I'm not even arguing the physical abilities between the two anymore. The stronger fighter doesn't always win. Hitomi's more intelligent and knows how to win. Physically Hitomi is on par with Ayane - look her up in Ninja Gaiden if you must.

Suggesting Hitomi isn't even able to injure Tifa is just lolz. Ignoring the silly UFC comment.

Hitomi is more experienced - in this environment. She's more familiar with one on one scenarios and is better suited for this type of match - another thing you seem to keep over looking.

Hitomi's a better fighter based on her record and the fact she's pretty dangerous herself. Lei Fang might suck, but at least Hitomi has proven she can win.

Calling Dead or Alive weak is just face palm. You're still talking about the physical stuff? *skips*

You're assuming Tifa wins because she can jump high and get beat.

Hitomi's just as strong as Ayane. Hitomi's been compared to being incredibly strong in her biography as well (Although, you never actually see her display her true strength). Hitomi's also won before, Tifa never has. Hitomi's not gimped by lack of abilities, Tifa is. In a one on one, Hitomi is more than capable of thrashing Tifa. You're completely disregarding anything other than physical ability, a category which Tifa isn't even significantly better in. Hitomi's managed to win, she's been proven canonically strong by matching Ayane and finishing 3rd place. In a straight up fist fight Tifa would be out matched.

You are suggesting Tifa wins because she's slightly stronger and completely ignoring that Hitomi's got the edge in every other element that factors into the fight. Stop.

We're just repeating the same arguments. Ultimately it's a pointless debate. The two franchises are really hard to work with in a cross over because they are very different. In a straight up, no materia, no magic, etc. competition Hitomi will win because she's better suited for this kind of match.

For the record, the Dissidia series was declared canon in this match, so any applicable feats are available for use.

In that case, Hitomi really has no chance. Like I said, Tifa has gone one on one with Sephiroth AND Ultemecia and lived. That fact alone ruins every and any chance Hitomi had.

RIP
Hitomi

hitomi

Originally posted by XanatosForever
For the record, the Dissidia series was declared canon in this match, so any applicable feats are available for use.

Like Tifa needs the feats?

Kind of makes it unfair, considering the wealth of canon stuff available without including crossover Vs stuff.

Originally posted by MadMel
Tifa has gone one on one with Sephiroth AND Ultemecia and lived. That fact alone ruins every and any chance Hitomi had.

I don't see how considering all the characters in dissidia don't compare to their originals.

I think they do.
Sephy proved to immune to just about everything anyone threw at him, true to his form. Even when Cloud beat him (twice), Sephy came back about five seconds later like nothing happened. With Ult, its was only first form Ultimecia, and that wasn't exactly on the same level as her universe busting final form.
Either way, Tifa going one on one with either of them and surviving is an impressive feat.

Originally posted by cdtm
Like Tifa needs the feats?

Kind of makes it unfair, considering the wealth of canon stuff available without including crossover Vs stuff.

If you want to argue the use, send a PM to Snafu, he's the OP and declared what was allowed.

Originally posted by XanatosForever
If you want to argue the use, send a PM to Snafu, he's the OP and declared what was allowed.

Nah. I don't agree with his decision, but it's his thread, so he can make whatever rules he wants.

Originally posted by MadMel
(or perhaps anyone in DOA) would be capable of

You don't think Ryu Hayabusa is capable of matching Sephiroth, or even beating him?

Ryu vs Cloud alone is considered 'debatable' around here, and Sephiroth has the best physical combat showings of ANY FF character.

To answer your question - Ryu might be able to fight against Sephy for a limited time, but would ultimately lose.
Of course that's IMO.

Originally posted by cdtm
You don't think Ryu Hayabusa is capable of matching Sephiroth, or even beating him? Probably not.

Originally posted by MadMel
Ryu vs Cloud alone is considered 'debatable' around here, and Sephiroth has the best physical combat showings of ANY FF character.

To answer your question - Ryu might be able to fight against Sephy for a limited time, but would ultimately lose.
Of course that's IMO.

Sephiroth is considered superior to Cloud? O_o

I find that surprising, considering Cloud is usually the anti Sephiroth character.. FF VII and Advent Children, for example.

Sephy was holding back in that fight. He doesn't use magic the entire fight, even though he could have.

Originally posted by MadMel
Sephy was holding back in that fight. He doesn't use magic the entire fight, even though he could have. He held back magically but not physically

http://gallery digik net/view/25689 add the dots. This says they fought evenly till cloud got tired.

Oh please.

It's painfully obvious in AC that Sephiroth was toying with Cloud the entire time, the reason Cloud got so tired when Sephiroth wasn't weary at all was because Sephiroth was putting barely any effort into the fight, compared to Cloud who was desperately keeping up.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Oh please.

It's painfully obvious in AC that Sephiroth was toying with Cloud the entire time, the reason Cloud got so tired when Sephiroth wasn't weary at all was because Sephiroth was putting barely any effort into the fight, compared to Cloud who was desperately keeping up.

Why wasn't he using one hand? He always does that when playing around.

He used only one hand when Cloud was dual wielding, and when Cloud was glowing blue, and of course when he turned Cloud into his personal pincushion.
That glowing/pincushion scene alone is visual evidence that Sephy wasn't giving anything close to his all.

Sephiroth was having a lot of fun with Cloud. Too bad he tends to forget Cloud has always managed to spoil his plans.