Savage Hulk vs Thor

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cdtm
Thor is bloodlusted, using lethal force, and fights melee only. No bfr or exotic power usage, no flying, no throwing the hammer.

Hulk is also royally pissed off. He just got done stomping Abomination, and thinks Thor is endangering Betty..

Personally, I think Fraction having Thor claim he never could beat Hulk was bs.

Who wins?

Cogito
Originally posted by cdtm
Personally, I think Fraction having Thor claim he never could beat Hulk was bs.

Personally, I think Fraction is BS

JakeTheBank
Thor.

cdtm
Originally posted by Cogito
Personally, I think Fraction is BS

http://www.atharvgoyal.com/images/thumbs_up_smiley.gif.jpg

quanchi112
Hulk wins.

psycho gundam
mindset's sig

Rage.Of.Olympus
So no lighting strikes or charged hammer strikes?

cdtm
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
So no lighting strikes or charged hammer strikes?

No lightning strikes. Charged hammer is ok.

zopzop
Originally posted by psycho gundam
mindset's sig
thumb up

Short, sweet, and to the point.

Rage.Of.Olympus
Originally posted by cdtm
No lightning strikes. Charged hammer is ok.

Then Thor wins. Hard. He can strike far above herald level by charging his strikes.

quanchi112
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Then Thor wins. Hard. He can strike far above herald level by charging his strikes. Based on ?

Rage.Of.Olympus
His feats? Using Mjolnir Thor's done everything from putting down High Heralds in a handful of blows or less to significantly hurting high end Skyfather entities and beyond.

quanchi112
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
His feats? Using Mjolnir Thor's done everything from putting down High Heralds in a handful of blows or less to significantly hurting high end Skyfather entities and beyond. Give me specifics and let the abc logic begin.

Rage.Of.Olympus
Go to the respect thread I made or ODG's. You'll find everything you need there.

quanchi112
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Go to the respect thread I made or ODG's. You'll find everything you need there. Ah trick's guide to debating 101. If you can't name anything and have to reference someone else's respect thread I won't ask you I will ask odg.

zopzop
Quan, don't forget Thor broke through Exitar's outer shell with a Mjolnir strike.

JakeTheBank
Personally, I feel Thor's charged striking power with Mjolnir is superior to Savage Hulk's striking power. *shrugs*

quanchi112
Originally posted by zopzop
Quan, don't forget Thor broke through Exitar's outer shell with a Mjolnir strike. He's hit Hulk with plenty of mjolnir strikes and has failed to put him down. I hardly see the need for abc logic here when we have plenty of fights between the two characters.

vansonbee
Hulk slightly only in melee, but overall w/ abilities, Thor should take the majority.

quanchi112
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Personally, I feel Thor's charged striking power with Mjolnir is superior to Savage Hulk's striking power. *shrugs* I agree but Hulk's healing factor coupled with his increasing strength due to anger makes this fight tailor made for him to win in the end.

Rage.Of.Olympus
Originally posted by quanchi112
Ah trick's guide to debating 101. If you can't name anything and have to reference someone else's respect thread I won't ask you I will ask odg.

baka

Why should I waste my time with you when I know exactly what your responses will be? All the information I could give you is readily available in two comprehensive respect threads. They were made for a reason.

quanchi112
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
baka

Why should I waste my time with you when I know exactly what your responses will be? All the information I could give you is readily available in two comprehensive respect threads. They were made for a reason. Because we both know it's abc logic when Thor has tried and failed to beat the Hulk time and time again. He's even tried to kill the Hulk and has completely and utterly failed. If you won't believe me believe Thor when he says he can't win.

Cogito
Quan, you can't demand proof in the way of scans from Rage without providing any yourself erm

Rage.Of.Olympus
Don't worry about it. We've done this dance plenty of times. I'm use to all his tactics.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Because we both know it's abc logic when Thor has tried and failed to beat the Hulk time and time again. He's even tried to kill the Hulk and has completely and utterly failed. If you won't believe me believe Thor when he says he can't win.

If Thor used Mjolnir as nothing more than a club, then I'd agree with you. He usually stands there, takes a punch and throws a blow.

Just utilizing Mjolnir with a modicum of common sense against the Hulk such as using it to block his punches and what not gives him the advantage. As I understand it, the TS intends for Thor to unleash every bit of his power. Which imho will result with a decapitated Hulk.

If you don't believe that Thor can output enough power to put down the Hulk, then I can't help you my friend.

Igniz
Didn't this happen before?Though Thor wasn't exactly pissed off in that fight.If Thor is pissed off from the get go, this will be like in the Abomination's first appearance when he knocked out Savage Hulk.

quanchi112
Originally posted by Cogito
Quan, you can't demand proof in the way of scans from Rage without providing any yourself erm I'm asking for examples of why he feels this way I can cite the same for why I feel the way I do. Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Don't worry about it. We've done this dance plenty of times. I'm use to all his tactics.



If Thor used Mjolnir as nothing more than a club, then I'd agree with you. He usually stands there, takes a punch and throws a blow.

Just utilizing Mjolnir with a modicum of common sense against the Hulk such as using it to block his punches and what not gives him the advantage. As I understand it, the TS intends for Thor to unleash every bit of his power. Which imho will result with a decapitated Hulk.

If you don't believe that Thor can output enough power to put down the Hulk, then I can't help you my friend. Thor's tried before and failed. I believe he can hurt the Hulk but I don't see him koing him unless he goes godblast or uses one of his more exotic anti force blasts or soul sucks him.

Basically you're saying Thor has no common sense and is so idiotic he just fights like an utter moron against the Hulk because you believe he can decapitate him.

cdtm
Originally posted by quanchi112


Basically you're saying Thor has no common sense and is so idiotic he just fights like an utter moron against the Hulk because you believe he can decapitate him.

When has Thor ever tried actually killing Savage Hulk with blunt force?

Or any Hulk variation before World War Hulk?

When Thor got serious, he was able to beat up Mangog, as he did that time Thanos and Mangog teamed up. Mangogs pretty durable.

quanchi112
Originally posted by cdtm
When has Thor ever tried actually killing Savage Hulk with blunt force?

Or any Hulk variation before World War Hulk?

When Thor got serious, he was able to beat up Mangog, as he did that time Thanos and Mangog teamed up. Mangogs pretty durable. Ih 440. He was screaming he'd kill the Hulk when he went into a beserker rage. He bested Mangog due to the anti force blast in his mouth an dwhat hero doesn't prevail over the odds when it's time.

carver9
By the way... This is Savage Hulk that they are talking about in the below scans. Enjoy.




http://i980.photobucket.com/albums/ae289/ankur2292/th_IncredibleHulks620027.jpg http://i980.photobucket.com/albums/ae289/ankur2292/th_IncredibleHulks620028.jpg

Rage.Of.Olympus
That's Green Scar.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Thor's tried before and failed. I believe he can hurt the Hulk but I don't see him koing him unless he goes godblast or uses one of his more exotic anti force blasts or soul sucks him.

Basically you're saying Thor has no common sense and is so idiotic he just fights like an utter moron against the Hulk because you believe he can decapitate him.

Tried and failed to do what? If you really believe that Thor has to use something like the God Blast or the Anti Force to just knock out the Hulk then I can't help you.

These play on words doesn't work with me Quan. Not even sure why you try. I freely admit Thor fights like an idiot. His prideful and it's in his nature to significantly hold back. He let's his opponent dictate the level he operates at. It's one of his flaws.

Yes, I think Thor can decapitate the Hulk and I'm not really sure why you'd disagree based on his showings. I give where credit is due, but Thor's busted tougher shit than his -albeit thick- skull. Hell, it's been stated that Thor was crushing Hulk's bones in one of their fights, and those weren't charged blows. I doubt it would ever happen in a comic and by no means do I suggest that it'd be something casual.

Let's be honest though, I can bombard you with feats of might that would convince most other posters but I'd be wasting my time. You've already decided that it's beyond Thor's power and so nothing I can do will change your mind. You'll use whatever fallacious arguments you need to keep the charade up. No point.

cdtm
Originally posted by carver9
By the way... This is Savage Hulk that they are talking about in the below scans. Enjoy.

Korg says "almost as hard", yet Thors taking on a group of them, and actually killed one of them.

Can't hit much harder than killing.

Rage.Of.Olympus
To be fair, Pak retconned Korg into being younger during that time period. I have no problem accepting that Green Scar was striking Korg with a bit more force than what Thor was unleashing.

cdtm
Originally posted by quanchi112
Ih 440. He was screaming he'd kill the Hulk when he went into a beserker rage. He bested Mangog due to the anti force blast in his mouth an dwhat hero doesn't prevail over the odds when it's time.

He bested Mangog with anti force, yes. But I'm talking about before that, when he hit Mangog with a hammer strike that staggered him, than hit him with his hammer so hard he sent him flying and wrecked some of the landscape, before turning his attacks on Thanos. As Mangog didn't rebound during Thor's attacks, we can presume he was out of action for the moment..

I haven't read that IH issue, but it's mentioned in an older KMC thread as that being a young Maestro. So, not a canon Hulk?

I'll try and read the issue for myself, though.

Anyways, assuming it is a young Maestro, it should also be relevant to bring up the pre Reigning Thor, with his Odin Force sealed off, fighting both Thing and Hulk, without his hammer, where he killed them both.

quanchi112
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
That's Green Scar.



Tried and failed to do what? If you really believe that Thor has to use something like the God Blast or the Anti Force to just knock out the Hulk then I can't help you.

These play on words doesn't work with me Quan. Not even sure why you try. I freely admit Thor fights like an idiot. His prideful and it's in his nature to significantly hold back. He let's his opponent dictate the level he operates at. It's one of his flaws.

Yes, I think Thor can decapitate the Hulk and I'm not really sure why you'd disagree based on his showings. I give where credit is due, but Thor's busted tougher shit than his -albeit thick- skull. Hell, it's been stated that Thor was crushing Hulk's bones in one of their fights, and those weren't charged blows. I doubt it would ever happen in a comic and by no means do I suggest that it'd be something casual.

Let's be honest though, I can bombard you with feats of might that would convince most other posters but I'd be wasting my time. You've already decided that it's beyond Thor's power and so nothing I can do will change your mind. You'll use whatever fallacious arguments you need to keep the charade up. No point. Why wouldn't I think that based off of Thor's recent dialogue and his entire history being unable to best the Hulk physically in extended fights.

What's crushing Hulk's bones going to do when he can heal from it or not miss a beat in the same exact comic. Hulk's always been Thor's equal long before his recent ww hulk/wb hulk went beyond even Thor so your argument doesn't even apply to the old hulk.

You'd bombard with me feats against other opponents than the Hulk when he's fought the Hulk many times so deep down you know I'm right and just won't admit it. This kind of fight highly favors the Hulk whereas Thor will start to wear down the Hulk will grow stronger and his healing factor will grow as well.

Rage.Of.Olympus
Originally posted by quanchi112
Why wouldn't I think that based off of Thor's recent dialogue and his entire history being unable to best the Hulk physically in extended fights.

What's crushing Hulk's bones going to do when he can heal from it or not miss a beat in the same exact comic. Hulk's always been Thor's equal long before his recent ww hulk/wb hulk went beyond even Thor so your argument doesn't even apply to the old hulk.

You'd bombard with me feats against other opponents than the Hulk when he's fought the Hulk many times so deep down you know I'm right and just won't admit it. This kind of fight highly favors the Hulk whereas Thor will start to wear down the Hulk will grow stronger and his healing factor will grow as well.

So....you're going to do pretty much what I said you'd do? Figures, anyways, I'll keep this brief.

I pointed out that with the power Thor can bring to bear, he can take the Hulk in one blow which you latched onto and denied he has the capabilities to accomplish the feat. I disagree and I think the claim is reasonable. I'm realistic, I doubt it would happen in a battle -outside of that one time- but I think it's a very real possibility . Especially seeing as how he has taken a large chunk out of Galactus and even Celestial Armor, caused severe pain to high end beings like Surtur and other Skyfather entities with blows, has one shot defeated Herald level beings, one shot killed a Herald of Galactus, the Midgard Serpent and so on. With the amount of power he can channel into Mjolnir, I believe it's well within Thor's capabilities to take the Hulk down in one mighty blow. Hell, Cosmic Entities should avoid getting hit with the power he can bring to bear.

That's all I have to say on the matter. Feel free to disagree. If you feel so damn strongly about it, we can debate Thor's capabilities to take down a Herald level being in a battle zone because I'm not wasting any more time with you. Don't have the energy.

Next time, take a little more time writing your posts. I know I've got you raging right now, but bits of don't even make sense.

CPT Space Bomb
Originally posted by cdtm
Thor is bloodlusted, using lethal force, and fights melee only. No bfr or exotic power usage, no flying, no throwing the hammer.

Hulk is also royally pissed off. He just got done stomping Abomination, and thinks Thor is endangering Betty..

Personally, I think Fraction having Thor claim he never could beat Hulk was bs.

Who wins? So let me get this straight, you're taking away every advantage Thor has over Hulk and forcing him to just brick? Hulk wins almost every time in that case. I love Thor, but if he's winning it's due to BFR, or if he's trying to kill Hulk he could do that with a couple of rare moves that he's never used on Hulk.

leonidas
Originally posted by CPT Space Bomb
So let me get this straight, you're taking away every advantage Thor has over Hulk and forcing him to just brick? Hulk wins almost every time in that case. I love Thor, but if he's winning it's due to BFR, or if he's trying to kill Hulk he could do that with a couple of rare moves that he's never used on Hulk.

thumb up

Starscream M
Originally posted by leonidas
thumb up newsflash leo...thor admitted hulk is his superior no expression

TheLordofMurder
Originally posted by CPT Space Bomb
So let me get this straight, you're taking away every advantage Thor has over Hulk and forcing him to just brick? Hulk wins almost every time in that case. I love Thor, but if he's winning it's due to BFR, or if he's trying to kill Hulk he could do that with a couple of rare moves that he's never used on Hulk.

thumb up

The Hulk only beats Thor if Thor fights like a dumb brick (which is comicbook bulls**tery at its best; its common to see characters with superspeed, superior ranged attacks, ect completely neglect these advanatges when fighting bricks)...


If I had Thors power set, Hulk wouldnt have a chance in hell of beating me; The Hulk cant fly...has no energy projection...no telepathic powers; he's got nothing other than Strength, Durability, and an excellent Healing Factor.

Thor can utilize hammer throws while maintaining flight, can rain down lighting at will; Thor could just rain down the lighting to distract/stun The Hulk and then follow that up with a nasty barrage of charged up Mjolnir strikes...

Or to be even cheaper about it, Thor could just fly around and do nothing else but rain lightning down on The Hulk until The Hulk BFR's himself in utter frustration...

In closing, Thor could beat The Hulk a dozen different ways if making Marvel money wasnt an issue; the fights wouldnt be as entertaining as when Thor continuously fights The Hulk in close quarters combat and competely neglects his more exotic abilities...but Thor would win every single time nonetheless.

Starscream M
so thor can beat hulk as long as thor doesn't fight like thor, am I following this correctly?

TheLordofMurder
Originally posted by Starscream M
so thor can beat hulk as long as thor fights like an intelligent warrior god who has many centuries of combat experience, am I following this correctly?

There fixed it for you...

Thats a true statement btw...

quanchi112
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
So....you're going to do pretty much what I said you'd do? Figures, anyways, I'll keep this brief.

I pointed out that with the power Thor can bring to bear, he can take the Hulk in one blow which you latched onto and denied he has the capabilities to accomplish the feat. I disagree and I think the claim is reasonable. I'm realistic, I doubt it would happen in a battle -outside of that one time- but I think it's a very real possibility . Especially seeing as how he has taken a large chunk out of Galactus and even Celestial Armor, caused severe pain to high end beings like Surtur and other Skyfather entities with blows, has one shot defeated Herald level beings, one shot killed a Herald of Galactus, the Midgard Serpent and so on. With the amount of power he can channel into Mjolnir, I believe it's well within Thor's capabilities to take the Hulk down in one mighty blow. Hell, Cosmic Entities should avoid getting hit with the power he can bring to bear.

That's all I have to say on the matter. Feel free to disagree. If you feel so damn strongly about it, we can debate Thor's capabilities to take down a Herald level being in a battle zone because I'm not wasting any more time with you. Don't have the energy.

Next time, take a little more time writing your posts. I know I've got you raging right now, but bits of don't even make sense. Keep holding onto that belief despite not being able to do so against Hulk himself. Not raging at all you just sound like jellyrobes saying Superman's stronger than captain Marvel while dismissing their on panel confrontations and referencing Thor's highest feats outside of his matchups against the Hulk. You can dance around the issue and ignore Thor's statements and their history all you like in a bizarre jellyrobes type promotion of Thor in the end you know I'm right as rain.

cdtm
Originally posted by quanchi112
Keep holding onto that belief despite not being able to do so against Hulk himself.

He did it in The Reigning.

The Hulk may have been an alternate timeline one, but it was basically 616 until Thor changed it by going back and time, and it's still our Thor. I mean, he remembers doing it all.

cdtm
Here's the thing:

Iron Man knocked out Savage Hulk.. Thor's best hammer strike should be > Iron Mans best punch. At the least, it should be equivalent. And he can bust out multiple shots, instead of only one.

Namor knocked out Savage Hulk, too. Twice.

A lot of characters < Thor have done it. And this isn't regular Thor, this is Thor going for the kill..

The fact Thor was supposedly in Warrior Madness mode, yet did exactly as well as he's ever done in normal mode (I've seen the fight now), tells me that was a moment of PIS. If normal Thor can match Hulk, Thor x10 should pwn.

IH 440 Thor had nothing on Blood and Thunder Thor, even before getting the Power Gem.

carver9
Originally posted by cdtm
Here's the thing:

Iron Man knocked out Savage Hulk.. Thor's best hammer strike should be > Iron Mans best punch. At the least, it should be equivalent. And he can bust out multiple shots, instead of only one.

Namor knocked out Savage Hulk, too. Twice.

A lot of characters < Thor have done it. And this isn't regular Thor, this is Thor going for the kill..

The fact Thor was supposedly in Warrior Madness mode, yet did exactly as well as he's ever done in normal mode (I've seen the fight now), tells me that was a moment of PIS. If normal Thor can match Hulk, Thor x10 should pwn.

IH 440 Thor had nothing on Blood and Thunder Thor, even before getting the Power Gem.

I dont think you want to go there with this post buddy. Thor got shot in the head with a bullet and died... Hulk fist>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>a bullet. Panther put Surfer in the arm bar and almost broke it... Hulk arm bar>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Panthers armbar. I'm not going to bring up Superman because I dont want to make Bada of Pr mad but you get the point.

quanchi112
Originally posted by cdtm
He did it in The Reigning.

The Hulk may have been an alternate timeline one, but it was basically 616 until Thor changed it by going back and time, and it's still our Thor. I mean, he remembers doing it all. So Thor did it to a different Hulk than the 616 one.

psycho gundam
quan's fav

http://i1099.photobucket.com/albums/g386/psychogundam1/thorhulkconclusion.jpg

cdtm
Originally posted by carver9
I dont think you want to go there with this post buddy. Thor got shot in the head with a bullet and died... Hulk fist>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>a bullet. Panther put Surfer in the arm bar and almost broke it... Hulk arm bar>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Panthers armbar. I'm not going to bring up Superman because I dont want to make Bada of Pr mad but you get the point.

And Hulk got beat by a snake. But I didn't bring that up, because it's clear cut PIS, the same as Panther hurting Surfer with an armbar and Thor being knocked out by a bullet.

Bad, BAD examples.

The Sorrow
Savage Hulk thinks Thor is endangering Betty and is already revved up from taking on Abomination plus all those stips?

Sucks to be Thor

Also wasn't he wearing the belt of strength when he cracked the outer shell of the Celestial confused

753
hulk crushes him

CPT Space Bomb
Originally posted by psycho gundam
quan's fav

http://i1099.photobucket.com/albums/g386/psychogundam1/thorhulkconclusion.jpg I like how people like to forget that in THAT fight, Thor was WINNING when he was using Mjolnir.

Then Hulk took a woman hostage and threatened to kill her unless Thor fought with his bare hands. Anyone with half a brain can tell you that Hulk> Thor/with bare hands.

Of course Thor got the worse of that fight. However, with Mjolnir Hulk was on his butt bleeding from his nose asking Thor to fight without his hammer...

Batman-Prime
Thor 6-7/10

cdtm
Originally posted by psycho gundam
quan's fav

http://i1099.photobucket.com/albums/g386/psychogundam1/thorhulkconclusion.jpg

Now THAT is a good example of CIS... The character choosing not to use his hammer for personal reasons, instead of simply forgetting he has one..

cdtm
And Rage.of.olympus, I don't see why the latest Fear Itself proves that Hulk pops class 100 heads like a cherry, as you mentioned in that Superman vs Hulk thread.

Thor did FINE against current Hulk. He survived an extended beatdown, and he was in turn beating him down with the hammer, having an effect on him, and knocked him into orbit.. Sure, he collapsed afterwards, but it's not like Hulk wasn't taking damage or staggering, like Rulk was..

If current Hulk was powerful enough to just pop Supermans head like a cherry, as you claimed that fight proves, he would have done the same to Thor during that beatdown.

And that's why I think Thor has good odds against Savage Hulk.. Because, losing or not, Thor had an impressive showing against current Hulk, even in defeat. Especially if that Hulk is as overpowered as everyone claims.. That makes Thor surviving such a savage assault a feather in his cap, so to speak.

quanchi112
Originally posted by cdtm
And Rage.of.olympus, I don't see why the latest Fear Itself proves that Hulk pops class 100 heads like a cherry, as you mentioned in that Superman vs Hulk thread.

Thor did FINE against current Hulk. He survived an extended beatdown, and he was in turn beating him down with the hammer, having an effect on him, and knocked him into orbit.. Sure, he collapsed afterwards, but it's not like Hulk wasn't taking damage or staggering, like Rulk was..

If current Hulk was powerful enough to just pop Supermans head like a cherry, as you claimed that fight proves, he would have done the same to Thor during that beatdown.

And that's why I think Thor has good odds against Savage Hulk.. Because, losing or not, Thor had an impressive showing against current Hulk, even in defeat. Especially if that Hulk is as overpowered as everyone claims.. That makes Thor surviving such a savage assault a feather in his cap, so to speak. Current Hulk in hulk's latest ish isn't the one who took Thor on. That Hulk seems like he's just above top tier. The worthy Hulk is just an elite top tier just like the Hulk is normally.

Rage.Of.Olympus
Originally posted by quanchi112
Current Hulk in hulk's latest ish isn't the one who took Thor on. That Hulk seems like he's just above top tier. The worthy Hulk is just an elite top tier just like the Hulk is normally.

Why would Worthy Hulk be just an Elite Top Tier? All of the Worthy got a significant boost in power, Worthy Hulk would at bare minimum be above Herald level.

Worthy Thing, Worthy Grey Gargoyle, Worthy Attuma, Worthy Juggernaut and probably Worthy Absorbing Man are all Elite Top Tiers I'd wager. Sin has probably reached Herald level but isn't on that level. If Titania keeps up the high end showings in Avengers Academy I could definitely see her being a Mid Herald.

The Sorrow
Wasn't it said that the hammers made all of the worthy around Thor level?

Hulk was already on that level before he received his hammer and he hasn't done anything in this event he couldn't already do i.e. take on teams, take hammer shots from Thor and easily survive re-entry.

quanchi112
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Why would Worthy Hulk be just an Elite Top Tier? All of the Worthy got a significant boost in power, Worthy Hulk would at bare minimum be above Herald level.

Worthy Thing, Worthy Grey Gargoyle, Worthy Attuma, Worthy Juggernaut and probably Worthy Absorbing Man are all Elite Top Tiers I'd wager. Sin has probably reached Herald level but isn't on that level. If Titania keeps up the high end showings in Avengers Academy I could definitely see her being a Mid Herald. Hulk might get a tiny boost in power but there's nothing to suggest he's more powerful than elite top tier in the fear arc.

753
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Why would Worthy Hulk be just an Elite Top Tier? All of the Worthy got a significant boost in power, Worthy Hulk would at bare minimum be above Herald level.

Worthy Thing, Worthy Grey Gargoyle, Worthy Attuma, Worthy Juggernaut and probably Worthy Absorbing Man are all Elite Top Tiers I'd wager. Sin has probably reached Herald level but isn't on that level. If Titania keeps up the high end showings in Avengers Academy I could definitely see her being a Mid Herald. so far, worthy juggernaut seems the strongest of them all. veritably trans level, I'd wager.

cdtm
Originally posted by quanchi112
Current Hulk in hulk's latest ish isn't the one who took Thor on. That Hulk seems like he's just above top tier. The worthy Hulk is just an elite top tier just like the Hulk is normally.

But the storylines are running concurrently, aren't they?

So who's really the current Hulk?

753
fear itself is more recent within the universe

SuperiorTech
Originally posted by 753
so far, worthy juggernaut seems the strongest of them all. veritably trans level, I'd wager.

Seems like the most interesting as well I like them touching on the fact that Juggernaut could have called on Cytorakk to combat the serpent but choose not to.

753
yes, I digged that too, he's managed to shunt cytorrak's destructive influence for a good while now, but fell prey to his own insecurities and desire for power. that's probably how they'll manage to deal with him him in the end, by reaching through to him and showing that at least his free will range is bigger with cytorrak. he wont stop, just walk away in his own terms

vansonbee
Originally posted by 753
fear itself is more recent within the universe In an Fear comic, Hulk & Betty was journeying together in a jungle, when he transform to Nul.

In the Incredible Hulks, before #634, Hulk & Betty did also journey together, until things got sour with Tyrannus in the picture, that led up to #634.

Until we know what happen afterwards for #635, Incredible Hulks comic is recent in the universe.
Originally posted by SuperiorTech
Seems like the most interesting as well I like them touching on the fact that Juggernaut could have called on Cytorakk to combat the serpent but choose not to. I thought Cytorakk abandon Cain for using Captain Universe abilities.

Rage.Of.Olympus
Originally posted by quanchi112
Hulk might get a tiny boost in power but there's nothing to suggest he's more powerful than elite top tier in the fear arc.

Why would Hulk get a tiny boost when every other character -Absorbing Man's boost is more mental based- has had a noticeable boost? Fraction hasn't fleshed out Hulk's power levels but it's pretty damn clear that all of the Worthy are intended to be above their original to the point it has a significant impact in combat. Worthy Hulk should be at bare minimum above Top Tier.

SuperiorTech
Originally posted by vansonbee
In an Fear comic, Hulk & Betty was journeying together in a jungle, when he transform to Nul.

In the Incredible Hulks, before #634, Hulk & Betty did also journey together, until things got sour with Tyrannus in the picture, that led up to #634.

Until we know what happen afterwards for #635, Incredible Hulks comic is recent in the universe.
I thought Cytorakk abandon Cain for using Captain Universe abilities.


He depowered him not abandoned.




Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Why would Hulk get a tiny boost when every other character -Absorbing Man's boost is more mental based- has had a noticeable boost? Fraction hasn't fleshed out Hulk's power levels but it's pretty damn clear that all of the Worthy are intended to be above their original to the point it has a significant impact in combat. Worthy Hulk should be at bare minimum above Top Tier.


I assume it comes from him not really doing much of anything before the Thor fight other than having a lot of trouble with Bendis powered Spiderwomon and Hawkeye.

Rage.Of.Olympus
A team about that powerful stomped Count Nefaria under Bendis. If Hulk wasn't amped, he would have been stomped.

quanchi112
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Why would Hulk get a tiny boost when every other character -Absorbing Man's boost is more mental based- has had a noticeable boost? Fraction hasn't fleshed out Hulk's power levels but it's pretty damn clear that all of the Worthy are intended to be above their original to the point it has a significant impact in combat. Worthy Hulk should be at bare minimum above Top Tier. Yes, a little above his normal self but nothing has demonstrated he's far above his normal station. If you have proof I'm always willing to listen.

Rage.Of.Olympus
I really don't understand why you think adding an enchanted Asgardian hammer/weapon similar to Mjolnir wouldn't give Hulk a significant boost. These entities are literally inhabiting the worthy.

Think what you want, Fraction has made it clear and Bendis touched upon it in the Avengers.

quanchi112
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
I really don't understand why you think adding an enchanted Asgardian hammer/weapon similar to Mjolnir wouldn't give Hulk a significant boost. These entities are literally inhabiting the worthy.

Think what you want, Fraction has made it clear and Bendis touched upon it in the Avengers. I said I think it's something but only something minimal to the Hulk. A major increase was what Pak did to the Hulk. That's sending a message loud and clear to the reader.

Rage.Of.Olympus
Like I said, think whatever you want, makes no difference to me. They've made it sufficiently clear that all of the Worthy have received boosts that have heavily improved their formidability. I see no reason why Hulk would be the exception. He had a poor showing in Avengers but so what? Bendis hit us over the head with the severity of the boost in the very issue. You could probably swap Thanos in for the Hulk and he wouldn't have a problem with the battle.

quanchi112
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Like I said, think whatever you want, makes no difference to me. They've made it sufficiently clear that all of the Worthy have received boosts that have heavily improved their formidability. I see no reason why Hulk would be the exception. He had a poor showing in Avengers but so what? Bendis hit us over the head with the severity of the boost in the very issue. You could probably swap Thanos in for the Hulk and he wouldn't have a problem with the battle. You're a thor guy so of course you want to play the hulk up here as it benefits Thor.

Rage.Of.Olympus
Poor rebuttal. It does benefit Thor but that doesn't take away from what I said one bit.

quanchi112
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Poor rebuttal. It does benefit Thor but that doesn't take away from what I said one bit. You're alluding to abc logic of other characters who have been amped but this doesn't apply to someone who can amp himself due to his own powerset throught his entire history.

zeel
prolly hulk hes to pissed for thor to manhandle him without his hammer. increased healing and his increased strength will eventually over come thor under theses circumstance.

zeel
Originally posted by Starscream M
newsflash leo...thor admitted hulk is his superior no expression


thor is,always has been, and always will be HULKS superior. Powerset wise at least, this dosent mean hulk couldnt defeat a thor that was not using his head.

quanchi112
Originally posted by zeel
thor is,always has been, and always will be HULKS superior. Powerset wise at least, this dosent mean hulk couldnt defeat a thor that was not using his head. They both excel in different areas I see hulk as having the better powerset personally. Thor is a lot more versatile though.

CosmicComet
Originally posted by 753
so far, worthy juggernaut seems the strongest of them all. veritably trans level, I'd wager.

I think it's partly to do with them being more reserved with Kuurthnaut than the others. He seems more enigmatic. And the fact that Colossus is going to communicate with an outside source like Cyttorak, makes it all the more intriguing.

CPT Space Bomb
Originally posted by quanchi112
They both excel in different areas I see hulk as having the better powerset personally. Thor is a lot more versatile though. No way.

Thor can construct impenetrable shields, teleport, absorb and transmute matter/energy, fly, create storms, summong lighting, anti-force blasts, God blasts, and life drains. He used to be able to time travel (in a way still can), and still has more abilities.

Hulk gets really strong and smashes stuff. He can regenerate like crazy, and can radiate gamma.

Thor wins the powerset hands down. Hulk is just the stronger/more durable brick, which is how Thor ALWAYS fights him (like an idiot).

JakeTheBank
I don't see how anyone can really argue that Hulk's powerset trumps Thor. Maybe if you base it exclusively on their fights in which Thor primarily fights Hulk down to his level in mostly melee brawling, I guess.

If Thor had the kind of superspeed that people mark out for from people like Superman or even his lesser "clones", I guarantee that they'd be all over Thor's hammer - and not Mjolnir - in terms of powersets.

quanchi112
Originally posted by CPT Space Bomb
No way.

Thor can construct impenetrable shields, teleport, absorb and transmute matter/energy, fly, create storms, summong lighting, anti-force blasts, God blasts, and life drains. He used to be able to time travel (in a way still can), and still has more abilities.

Hulk gets really strong and smashes stuff. He can regenerate like crazy, and can radiate gamma.

Thor wins the powerset hands down. Hulk is just the stronger/more durable brick, which is how Thor ALWAYS fights him (like an idiot). I said Thor is far more versatile but a powerset to me which is based off of anger levels and you can heal from the bone with being as strong as he has in the past. This makes this powerset a landslide for me. I said Thor could easily bfr the Hulk but that's not really beating the Hulk and Thor's about as prideful as a warrior can be.

cdtm
Like I said before, what happens if you try atomizing Hulks entire body?

Never mind that Thor would never do it, what happens if he tried? Or if a any character capable of causing as much damage as Thor tried it?

It's not like Thor isn't capable of that, or Hulk is too durable for such a tactic.. Gladiators heat vision penetrated Hulks chest to his heart, and he's been injured by far less than Thor is capable of outputting. Look at the giant godblast Thor used on Big G. That thing would cover Hulks entire body, and probably leave nothing left..

quanchi112
Originally posted by cdtm
Like I said before, what happens if you try atomizing Hulks entire body?

Never mind that Thor would never do it, what happens if he tried? Or if a any character capable of causing as much damage as Thor tried it?

It's not like Thor isn't capable of that, or Hulk is too durable for such a tactic.. Gladiators heat vision penetrated Hulks chest to his heart, and he's been injured by far less than Thor is capable of outputting. Look at the giant godblast Thor used on Big G. That thing would cover Hulks entire body, and probably leave nothing left.. Let's not lose our heads here.

753
Originally posted by cdtm
Like I said before, what happens if you try atomizing Hulks entire body?

Never mind that Thor would never do it, what happens if he tried? Or if a any character capable of causing as much damage as Thor tried it?

It's not like Thor isn't capable of that, or Hulk is too durable for such a tactic.. Gladiators heat vision penetrated Hulks chest to his heart, and he's been injured by far less than Thor is capable of outputting. Look at the giant godblast Thor used on Big G. That thing would cover Hulks entire body, and probably leave nothing left.. I'm willing to bet he'd regenerate from dispersed atoms if it ever came to that in the comics

TheLordofMurder
What is the Hulk going to do if Thor becomes homicidal and uses Soul Suck?

Not a dam thing other than die...

The Hulk only has a chance if Thor fights like a dumb, flightless, brick opposed to an experienced warrior god with many centuries of experience...

End of story...

Happy Dance

753
there is no reason whatsoever for an attack like soulsuck not to work on the hulk, but if the day ever comes that thor does pull that out against him, we'll be presented to some shit about how hulk's spirit is way too strong for that. same goes for almot any popular character with his own title.

CPT Space Bomb
Originally posted by quanchi112
I said Thor is far more versatile but a powerset to me which is based off of anger levels and you can heal from the bone with being as strong as he has in the past. This makes this powerset a landslide for me. I said Thor could easily bfr the Hulk but that's not really beating the Hulk and Thor's about as prideful as a warrior can be. Thor saved Banner's life before when they were fighting and Hulk turned into Banner. He teleported him to earth so he wouldn't die of suffocation. Thor doesn't TRY to kill Hulk, he could have in the past.

Thor doesn't HAVE to bfr Hulk to win, he could use one of his higher abilities, like Transmutation (which he did to Absorbing Man), or God-Blast, Life Drain, or Anti-force. Any one of those would beat Hulk (well, the Anti-force may not). Still, Thor won't do that because he's a warrior and fights Hulk down on Hulk's level. Thor > Hulk in power, he just doesn't use it on him.

TheLordofMurder
Originally posted by CPT Space Bomb
Thor saved Banner's life before when they were fighting and Hulk turned into Banner. He teleported him to earth so he wouldn't die of suffocation. Thor doesn't TRY to kill Hulk, he could have in the past.

Thor doesn't HAVE to bfr Hulk to win, he could use one of his higher abilities, like Transmutation (which he did to Absorbing Man), or God-Blast, Life Drain, or Anti-force. Any one of those would beat Hulk (well, the Anti-force may not). Still, Thor won't do that because he's a warrior and fights Hulk down on Hulk's level. Thor > Hulk in power, he just doesn't use it on him.

thumb up

carver9
Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
What is the Hulk going to do if Thor becomes homicidal and uses Soul Suck?

Not a dam thing other than die...

The Hulk only has a chance if Thor fights like a dumb, flightless, brick opposed to an experienced warrior god with many centuries of experience...

End of story...

Happy Dance


False.

TheLordofMurder
@carver

So whats the Hulk going to do if Thor stays to the air and rains down lightning on him?

If "the fix" isnt in, absolutely nothing other than get owned; dodging a jumping Hulk (or simply swatting him down with a Mjolnir strike) should be trivial...as should dodging/swatting down any projectile the Hulk attempts to use against him.


What defense does Hulk have to getting his soul taken away?

None sans PIS...


At the end of the day this isnt even a contest if Thor utilizes his other abilities against the Hulk; the Hulk can only be effective against Thor in close quarters combat, and Thor has many capabilities that would allow him to maintain distance, beat the Hulk senseless, with the Hulk never being able to put a finger on him...

carver9
Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
@carver

So whats the Hulk going to do if Thor stays to the air and rains down lightning on him?

If "the fix" isnt in, absolutely nothing other than get owned; dodging a jumping Hulk (or simply swatting him down with a Mjolnir strike) should be trivial...as should dodging/swatting down any projectile the Hulk attempts to use against him.


What defense does Hulk have to getting his soul taken away?

None sans PIS...


At the end of the day this isnt even a contest if Thor utilizes his other abilities against the Hulk; the Hulk can only be effective against Thor in close quarters combat, and Thor has many capabilities that would allow him to maintain distance, beat the Hulk senseless, with the Hulk never being able to put a finger on him...

Thor isn't going to beat Superman or Surfer 10/10 via soul sucking and he sure as hell isn't beating Hulk 10/10 with it either.

Hulk has shown on numerous of occasions that he can jump at tremendous speeds...hell, he could jump out of orbit. He can get to Thor and one lightning attack isn't stopping him either.

Using your type of debating (since Thor only showed soul suck one time), Hulk would dimension clap Thor a** to dust. Do you see how that goes?

TheLordofMurder
Hulk destroying a dimension with a Thunder Clap is just as PIS ridden as Thor using Mjolnir to absorb and redirect a blast capable of destroying 1/5th of the universe; there is no PIS here in a forum fight...

Even if Hulk manages to reach Thor, Thor could just free himself and repeat the process; Thor would have to be hovering in 1 spot for the Hulk to have a reasonable chance to reach him in the 1st place...especially since he'll be constantly struck by lightning.

Thor could just fly, keep moving, and just rain down lightning on the Hulk; the Hulk has no defense to this and PIS isnt needed to make this strategy a reality...


This strategy beats Hulk every single time without fail...

cdtm
Originally posted by carver9
Thor isn't going to beat Superman or Surfer 10/10 via soul sucking and he sure as hell isn't beating Hulk 10/10 with it either.


That's mainly because Superman and Surfer have speed and maneuverability options Hulk lacks, so can keep on top of him and not give him a chance to use his more exotic powers.

Hulk, on the other hand, is pretty much screwed if Thor decides to keep his distance and use exotic attacks on him.

And for the record, Superman would be screwed too, if Thor uses his hammer to move well out of range and nuke him from afar.. Supermans fast, but the hammer is faster.

It's Thor vs Supermans native speed that comes into debate, and whether Superman can initially strike him down before he can channel his powers..

quanchi112
Originally posted by CPT Space Bomb
Thor saved Banner's life before when they were fighting and Hulk turned into Banner. He teleported him to earth so he wouldn't die of suffocation. Thor doesn't TRY to kill Hulk, he could have in the past.

Thor doesn't HAVE to bfr Hulk to win, he could use one of his higher abilities, like Transmutation (which he did to Absorbing Man), or God-Blast, Life Drain, or Anti-force. Any one of those would beat Hulk (well, the Anti-force may not). Still, Thor won't do that because he's a warrior and fights Hulk down on Hulk's level. Thor > Hulk in power, he just doesn't use it on him. Thor may have saved him before just as Hulk saved him from a nuclear weapon in ih 440. That doesn't mean that they haven't actively lost themselves int the throes of battle and tried to kill each other before.

On paper that's nice and I do agree a godblast works provided he has the time to pull it off. I just feel more or less this is Hulk's fight because you nailed it he fights to Hulk's strengths. I don't see Thor beating an all out Hulk the one Pak just put on the table though. He'd break Thor pretty quickly.

CPT Space Bomb
Whether or not Thor could beat current "Pak" Hulk is irrelevant. This is Savage Hulk. And that wasn't savage Hulk that "saved" Thor (Thor would have survived the blast), it was merged Hulk (had alot more intelligence than Savage.

Point is, if Thor wanted to he could dispatch of Savage Hulk using his abilities every time, by teleport or whatever. But he doesn't, he wants to fight and Hulk is one of the only creatures he can hit with all his strength.

quanchi112
Originally posted by CPT Space Bomb
Whether or not Thor could beat current "Pak" Hulk is irrelevant. This is Savage Hulk. And that wasn't savage Hulk that "saved" Thor (Thor would have survived the blast), it was merged Hulk (had alot more intelligence than Savage.

Point is, if Thor wanted to he could dispatch of Savage Hulk using his abilities every time, by teleport or whatever. But he doesn't, he wants to fight and Hulk is one of the only creatures he can hit with all his strength. I was referring to Hulk's powers in general and that's what initially but yes the reason Thor doesn't beat savage Hulk is because he's an idiot and fights Hulk's fight.

753
Originally posted by CPT Space Bomb
Thor saved Banner's life before when they were fighting and Hulk turned into Banner. He teleported him to earth so he wouldn't die of suffocation. Thor doesn't TRY to kill Hulk, he could have in the past.

Thor doesn't HAVE to bfr Hulk to win, he could use one of his higher abilities, like Transmutation (which he did to Absorbing Man), or God-Blast, Life Drain, or Anti-force. Any one of those would beat Hulk (well, the Anti-force may not). Still, Thor won't do that because he's a warrior and fights Hulk down on Hulk's level. Thor > Hulk in power, he just doesn't use it on him. transmutation has failed on the hulk. godblast would work, but the chanting and focus it requires make it unsuitable for battle. anti-force would probably fail. lifedrain might do it, but i dont hink ti would work all the time either as hulk has some absurd feats of simply overcompensating energy drain.

cdtm
Originally posted by carver9

Using your type of debating (since Thor only showed soul suck one time), Hulk would dimension clap Thor a** to dust. Do you see how that goes?

Is the dimension clap from Incredible Hulks 634, or some other feat?

Because I have the issue in front of me, and I'm not convinced he destroyed the entire dimension.. He's called "Worldbreaker", as the planet is being destroyed, and the surrounding destruction opens the door for arguing he wasted the solar system, at most.

Skaar > Hulk, and also seemed > Red She Hulk when Hulk and Skaar fought..

A case can be made for Red Hulk being the strongest Hulk, since he knocked out a Watcher in a few punches and killed Grandmaster in about as many, which I'd put up against a solar system busting feat any day..

-Pr-
Thor imo. Has versatility and the power to match it.

Rage.Of.Olympus
Ugh, this last page is horrible.

753
Originally posted by cdtm
Is the dimension clap from Incredible Hulks 634, or some other feat?

Because I have the issue in front of me, and I'm not convinced he destroyed the entire dimension.. He's called "Worldbreaker", as the planet is being destroyed, and the surrounding destruction opens the door for arguing he wasted the solar system, at most.

Skaar > Hulk, and also seemed > Red She Hulk when Hulk and Skaar fought..

A case can be made for Red Hulk being the strongest Hulk, since he knocked out a Watcher in a few punches and killed Grandmaster in about as many, which I'd put up against a solar system busting feat any day.. umar said he destroyed her realm. it is then repeatedly restored by the magic of the wishing well and destroyed again by the hulks. some people have taken issue with the term "realm" claiming it referred only to that world, but I do believe it means dimension in that context. of course, that dimension may not be much bigger than those celestial bodies shown.

cdtm
Originally posted by 753
umar said he destroyed her realm.

Nosir. I just reread it now, and nobody says anything about a realm being destroyed.

Hulk asks if anyone there is innocent, and his friends interpret that to mean if anyone in the Dark Dimension is innocent, but that's as far as it goes. The art shows a planet being destroyed, and the caption uses the word "Worldbreaker", so it's a stretch to equate that with dimensional destruction..

TheHulk
Savage Hulk wins 5-6/10

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