Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.

Okay so I been reading some articles and listening to various people who read original text and scriptures. Majority claim that the word Homosexuality was never mention in the original scripture.

Certain Hebrews state that many words that modern churches and translators turned into Homosexuality were words like like, Sex Goddess Priestess, Loose women, abusers of men and so on.

So my question is this if you are a Christian do you follow your church Doctrine and it's bible translation or do you follow original text and word for word translation?

The word Homosexual did not exits in ancient times in the middle east or with the greeks so how could that word just appear in the modern bibles?

Leviticus 18:22

You shall not lie with a man as with a woman; it is an abomination.

The Hebrew translation word for word is more:

And Men shall not lie with a Woman.
another translation is:
men shall not lie in beds of women..

many scholars state the verse is referencing and forbidding the Isrealites from religious practices of their neighbors like the caananites and their sex cult orgies and fertility Goddesses which i guess was prevalent at the time.

Others have claimed that certain prohibitions were not against men lying with men but that men were not to lie with boys as they would a woman.

this is a hot topic and i want to know what you all think?


here is the link from one of the word for word translations:
http://www.stjohnsmcc.org/new/BibleAbuse/Leviticus.php


also that the word abomination was used liberally by god in various matters and that the closes hebrew connotation was closer to taboo or forbidden and not the same connotations that abomination brings to mind.

is this true? O_o

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abomination_%28Bible%29
wiki is awesome because you know you are getting the best information out there.

discuss.

who really knows?

I believe that yes it does not show up in the bible.

Originally posted by ADarksideJedi
I believe that yes it does not show up in the bible. you are trying to be clever, i know. What i mean that the bible did not actually prohibit homosexuality and was not referring to homosexuality but was actually referring to orgies.

there was purposely mistranslation like men shall not lie with men as a woman. which is never stated in the original forum as i showed in the link.

Oh I see I don't remember reading about Orgies however. Where does it talk about that?

Sodom And The First Mention Of Homosexuality

Genesis is the book of beginnings. There is a rule followed by fundamental Bible students, that is known as the law or rule of "first mention." When you find something mentioned the first time in Genesis, this will set a pattern for understanding it throughout the Bible. This certainly holds true on homosexuality. "...the men of Sodom were wicked and sinners before the LORD exceedingly." Genesis 13:13. We are not long left in doubt of the nature of the sin Sodom was noted for.

God revealed to Abraham that He was going to destroy Sodom, "Because the cry of Sodom and Gomorrah is great, and because their sin is very grievous;" Genesis 18:20. God sent two angels, who appeared as men, into Sodom to warn Lot and his family to flee the city. The angels spent the night in Lot's house. That night the men of Sodom surrounded the house and asked, him, "Where are the men which came in to thee this night? bring them out unto us, that we may KNOW them." Genesis 19:5. It is clear that the Bible uses the word "know" many times to describe a sex act between two individuals. "And Adam knew Eve his wife; and she conceived, and bare Cain,..." "And Cain KNEW his wife; and she conceived, and bare Enoch:..." Genesis 4:1,17. Lot offered to give the men of Sodom his two unmarried daughters, which had not "KNOWN man", but of course they were not interested in women. They wanted men because they were sodomites. Even when they were smitten with blindness by the angels, these wicked men still wearied themselves in trying to find the door of Lot's house.

God destroyed Sodom with fire and brimstone. Anyone should be able to read Genesis 19 and see God's attitude toward the practice of homosexuals. "Then the LORD rained upon Sodom and upon Gomorrah brimstone and fire from the LORD out of heaven;" Genesis 19:24. This even is mentioned many other places in the Bible, by Isaiah, Jeremiah and other prophets. It is used as an example of God's judgment by Jesus, Peter and Jude in the New Testament. Not one writer or speaker in the Bible questions God's righteousness in destroying these cities.


The following definitions are taken from Webster's New Twentieth Century Dictionary, Unabridged, Second Edition, 1975:

* "Homosexuality, 1) Sexual desire for those of the same sex; 2) sexual relations between individuals of the same sex."

* "Homosexual, one whose sexual inclination is toward those of the individual's own sex rather than the opposite sex."

* "Sodomite, a person who practices sodomy."

* "Sodomy, any sexual intercourse regarded as abnormal, as between persons of the same sex, especially males, or between a person and an animal."

* "Lesbian, a homosexual woman." "Lesbianism, the sexual practices of Lesbians; homosexuality between women.

God's Law Forbids Homosexual Acts

It is easy to see that homosexual acts were forbidden by the Law. "Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination." Leviticus 18:22. This sin called for the death penalty under the Law. "If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death;" Leviticus 20:13. "There shall be no whore of the daughters of Israel, nor a sodomite of the sons of Israel." Deuteronomy 23:17. "Thou shalt not commit adultery." Exodus 20:14. Although this verse does not mention an homosexual act, nevertheless, it would forbid this sin. Why? Because homosexuals commit adulterous acts with persons of the same sex.

Why God Commanded Nations To Be Destroyed!

Israel was told to destroy certain nations that dwelt in the land of Canaan. This is found a number of times in Deuteronomy and Joshua. It is clear that Israel not only was told to do this, but God also said that He would help them do it. Some liberal humanistic theologians of the 20th Century do not believe that God said for Israel to do this. They do not deny that it is found in the Bible, but they deny that God said it. They prefer to believe that the writers simply made it up to cover their cruelties to the inhabitants of the land. The Bible believer must take an entirely different approach.

Let the Bible speak. In Deuteronomy 7:1, seven nations are named and in 7:2, Israel is commanded: "And when the LORD thy God shall deliver them before thee; thou shalt smite them, and utterly destroy them; thou shalt make no covenant with them, nor show mercy unto them." "And the LORD thy God will put out those nations before thee... LORD thy God shall deliver them unto thee, and shall destroy them..." Deuteronomy 7:22,23. A careful study will reveal WHY God ordered whole nations to be destroyed by the Israelites. God warned Israel concerning a long list of sins, including incest, adultery, having sex with animals and homosexuality. "Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind...Neither shalt thou lie with any beast...Defile not ye yourselves in any of these things: for in all these the nations are defiled which I cast out before you...the land itself vomiteth out her inhabitants." Leviticus 18:22-25. Man is forbidden to "lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman," and "ye shall not walk in the manners of the nation, which I cast out before you: for they committed all these things, and therefore I abhorred them." Leviticus 20:13,23.

Judah was condemned during the time of Rehoboam, because "there were also sodomites in the land: and they did according to all the abominations of the nations which the LORD cast out before the children of Israel." 1st Kings 14:24. Once again we are shown one of the principle reasons why God ordered the wholesale destruction of certain nations. God knew what he was doing, and He violated none of His attributes or laws in destroying them. His love, holiness and righteousness are vindicated by His judgments. True love will never tolerate and condone homosexuality!!

Doing Right In The Eyes Of The Lord!

Those who condoned and tolerated the sodomites were condemned by God. However, the kings who properly handled the homosexual issue, "did that which was right in the eyes of the Lord." King Asa "did that which was right in the eyes of the LORD...he took away the sodomites out of the land..." 1st Kings 15:11,12. King Jehoshaphat "did which was right in the eyes of the LORD... the remnant of the sodomites...he took out of the land." 1st Kings 22:43,46. King Josiah "did that which was right in the sight of the Lord... he brake down the houses of the sodomites, that were by the house of the Lord..." (2nd Kings 22: 23:7).

Churches, denominations and preachers who advocate, condone or excuse homosexuality are NOT doing that which is right in the sight of the Lord.

"God Gave Them Up"

In Romans chapter 1, homosexuality is pictured as being at the end of the road. It is at the lowest level of human depravity. The stages of Gentile apostasy are clearly set forth. "Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things. Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves...For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompense of their error which was meet." Romans 1:21-24,26,27.

Surely anyone can understand that the above Scripture condemns homosexual sins. Man turned from God to idols, to human depravity, and God gave them up. God will not countenance homosexuality, sodomy and lesbianism. Homosexual ministers and ministers who condone homosexuality have written many articles defending its practice, but they never bother to explain Romans 1. The reason is obvious. It cannot be explained away. It must either be ignored or denied. Widespread homosexuality in a society is a sign that God has given them up! If America continues to follow the widespread homosexual trend, it will destroy our civilization.
Listen to the Word of God! "But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully; Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind (the homosexual), for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine." 1st Timothy 1:8-10.

"Defile themselves with mankind", in the above Scripture is translated from the Greek word "arsenokoites" and it means "sodomites" according to Strong's Greek Dictionary. Thayer's Greek Lexicon defines "arsenokoites" as "one who lies with a male as with a female, a sodomite." So according to the above Scriptures, sodomy should be illegal and should be punished along with murder and kidnapping.

Some people contend that a homosexual cannot be saved. Generally they base their belief on Romans 1, which says: "God gave them up." Others point to 1st Corinthians 6:9,10 to show that the homosexual cannot be saved. However, we believe that a close study of these Scriptures will prove just the opposite. We hasten to say, that we do not believe that a person who is saved will remain a homosexual. That person who is saved will turn from it, repent of it and forsake it.

Let us note what the Scripture says! Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? "Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, (Greek "arsenokoites" meaning "sodomites", Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God." I Cor. 6:9,10. This would end all hope of salvation for the sodomite and a lot of others, if it were not for the next verse of Scripture. "And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God." 1st Corinthians 6:11. So there you have the truth. Some of the Corinthian Christian had been sodomites, but they no longer were sodomites, for they had been washed, sanctified and justified by the Lord. They were no longer involved in this awful sin. They were not saved by quitting their sins, but they were saved out of their sins.

So to talk of "homosexual churches" and "homosexual ministers" and "homosexual weddings", is like speaking of "murder churches", "murder ministers" and "murder weddings." The whole idea is preposterous, absurd, senseless and utterly foolish, in the light of the Bible.

Do They Need Love And Understanding?

The homosexual needs the truth more than anything else. "And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free." John 8:32. He needs to know that all human being are born with a sinful nature but they are not born homosexuals. The devil would like for homosexuals to believe that they are born homosexuals, and that there is nothing they can do about it. They need to be told that it is not a sickness, but a sin! By "repentance toward God, and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ" (Acts 20:21), they can be saved.

To promote, encourage or participate in homosexual acts, is a grave offense against God. Homosexual ministers and homosexual churches must be especially offensive to God, since they promote sodomy and confirm sodomites in their sin. Instead of being encouraged in their sin, they need to be told: "Repent ye therefore and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out." Acts 3:19.


The problem is the modern Bibles translation today like the NIV, ESV, NASB, TNIV, AMP, etc use corrupt "Greek" text which came out of Alexandre Egypt. Have water down the Word of God taking words that have powerful meaning and replacing it with inferior words and making Homosexuality a normal Sin instead of Abomination in the site of God. the King James Bible which is more accurate then the modern Bibles use Majority Text or Receive Text came from Antioch, Rome, Asia Minor heart bed of Christianity. KJV is accurate to the original meaning of the Bible, that's why Gays hate the KJV for tells like it is.

Originally posted by the Darkone
So to talk of "homosexual churches" and "homosexual ministers" and "homosexual weddings", is like speaking of "murder churches", "murder ministers" and "murder weddings." It scares me that you vote.

Darkone, your whole post is like you didn't even read the thread starter. Except your last paragraph, where you seem to think we're talking about the last four centuries of translation.

I don't remember seeing this in the bible but I will check it out. thanks.

you should pay attention to the things people don't talk and write about..
Are you sure that homosexuality is not in the Bible? Read Proverbs closely and Matt

Most of what the bible forbids is the use of prostitues, rape (which is what went down in Sodom and Gamorrah), and orgies.

However, they didn't have a term for homosexuality and the various types of sexualities that we know about today simply because they didn't have the same type of sexual research that we had today.

Being a devout catholic I find it frightening that so many people would use a book made for love in order to hate.

The words "homosexual" and "homosexuality" do not appear in the Bible-at least they are absent from the original Hebrew, Aramaic and Greek texts. The authors of the Bible did not understand sexual orientation; this term was only developed in the late 19th century. The writers had comprehension of same-sex relationships, or sex with persons of the same gender. Thus, when you see one of these terms in an English translation of the Bible, it is accurate. The word "homosexual" first appeared in an American Bible in 1973, the New International Version (NIV). It seems to have appeared in a version in the United Kingdom, the (NEB), a few years earlier.

Originally posted by alltoomany
you should pay attention to the things people don't talk and write about..
Are you sure that homosexuality is not in the Bible? Read Proverbs closely and Matt

I am and I did for your information.

@ The Darkone

interesting reinterpretation of the bible and bold claim of King James bible being more accurate than the original text and interpretation of the people who wrote it in their words and their connotations. *smh*

Sodom and Gomorrah never stated that homosexuality was the sin which God was judging them prior to the "angels" *air quotes* although it was obviously the last straw.

God was already planning on destroyin the two Cities for immorality a general umbrella term for the various things that they were doing.

aside from that in order for you to use the term "to know them" also requires cultural context of the people in the city.

yes, the word to know someone has been used in the bible to denote sexual relations but it has also been used as it sounds unless you think that God has offered some of his prophets the opportunity to sex him when he uses the term to "know me."


Like i said one must know the customs and laws of certain ancient cities to know that some cities actually required individuals to present themselves to the chief elders or patriarchs of certain cities.

Some have stated that Lot did violate this ancient law when he brought the strangers into his home. and yes, it is also shown that Lot offered his daughters to the group of men to rape or appease them. so, yes, it looked like the mob wanted to rape the strangers or that they could not be bought off with his daughters for failing to abide by the cities laws. But, that in itself was not a homosexual act since the strangers as many Christians state are angels and not human males.

If anything it once again shows that the men of the city were into orgies and rape. which God being God already knew, it was the attempted rape of his angels which broke the camels back and sealed the cities fate... not that act of homosexuality of the city prior to God having his angels investigate the city.

here you go:

http://www.str.org/site/News2?page=NewsArticle&id=5702

aside from all this it can be argued that God used the city as an example to Abraham and his people to show them what happens when they violate his laws and keep them in mind..


by the way the modern word usage for Sodomy is irrelevant and it holds as much water as calling the toilet john or the modern homosexual using the gay to identify themselves.. the original definition is still intact and does not mean every time you find it in a book it means toilet or homosexual...

Who gives a shit, it's all bullshit anyway.

Originally posted by alltoomany
you should pay attention to the things people don't talk and write about..
Are you sure that homosexuality is not in the Bible? Read Proverbs closely and Matt You should pay attention to the things people DO talk about and write about. Particularly before you tell them they're misinformed.
Are you sure we're even talking about the modern Bible? Read the thread starter closely.

Originally posted by lord xyz
Who gives a shit, it's all bullshit anyway. people who follow and believe in the bible should give a sh** also those who are assaulted and abused by said religion should care just a lil... just saying.

here is a video talking about Sodom and Gomorrah biblical scholars who again state the Homosexuality was not the cause for the destruction of the cities and was in fact left unexplained. further stating that homosexuality view is actually a new and modern view with no scriptural support.

Sofwzy0y1ao

j5__0e7T-8o


and once again the new modern word for sodomizing although rooted in the biblical city does not solidify nor show that it was homosexuality nor that the city was called that b/c inhabitants of the city were into anal. you are using circular reasoning using one to support the other without proving one or the other.