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http://fc00.deviantart.net/fs70/i/2009/352/5/d/Ryu_vs_Bison_by_MJ_Kris.jpg

It is, exactly what it says it is.

Ryu isn't nearly as "destructive" when he is "good" and his feats are speculative in SF3 for the most part. So any attempt to debate it is just going to descend into abc logic. I assume most here will root for Shin Bison though. Meh.

Ryu throws a boulder at the dictator's head.
Lol kidding, in all honesty I don't think SF III Ryu could beat any version of Bison on his own.

I dunno about that. He's certainly surpassed Alpha Akuma. He should be able to handle the weaker versions of Bison without a doubt.

Title says Shin Bison.

That isn't exactly a weaker version of Bison so there's probably not going to be any debating.

Imo, Ryu can't even beat the weakest canon version of Bison.

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Title says Shin Bison.

That isn't exactly a weaker version of Bison so there's probably not going to be any debating. I know that, I was arguing with the person who said he can't beat any version.

Who knows what SF3 Ryu can do at full potential? He never showed it.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
I know that, I was arguing with the person who said he can't beat any version.

Who knows what SF3 Ryu can do at full potential? He never showed it.

Yeah, my bad. Didn't see that guy's post. >__>

Lift up a boulder with difficulty. 313

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
I dunno about that. He's certainly surpassed Alpha Akuma. He should be able to handle the weaker versions of Bison without a doubt.

I dunno tho, the problem is that alpha Akuma is still more destructive, and certainly more experienced than Ryu is. And he has the technique required to put Bison down, the SGS, which Ryu still lacks.

That said, the Udon Akuma layed one hell of a smackdown on Bison before using the SGS, but was fairing evenly with PD empowered Bison until Delta Red destroyed it, after that, Akuma ripped him apart flawlessly.

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Yeah, my bad. Didn't see that guy's post. >__>

Lift up a boulder with difficulty. 313 He braced it for a verrry long time with his trainer on top.Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
I dunno tho, the problem is that alpha Akuma is still more destructive, and certainly more experienced than Ryu is. And he has the technique required to put Bison down, the SGS, which Ryu still lacks.

That said, the Udon Akuma layed one hell of a smackdown on Bison before using the SGS, but was fairing evenly with PD empowered Bison until Delta Red destroyed it, after that, Akuma ripped him apart flawlessly. Ryu has the potential though. Shin Bison would be tougher and questionable, Ryu has the power to take it with the weaker Bison and he has extra moves to help him in the match IMO.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
He braced it for a verrry long time with his trainer on top.

Ryu's full potential as of SF3: Lifting boulders with old men on top.
Chris is better in the boulder department. vin

Chun Li should be lifting his boulders.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
Chun Li should be lifting his boulders.

Nah. He's the one that likes lifting old men's boulders. vin

The women like lifting his though.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HIPnSgwPBg4&feature=player_detailpage#t=52s

I'm pretty sure Ryu can fire a energy blast more powerful than that one block buster Kikosho from Chun-Li.

I think that SF3 Ryu could defeat SF2 Dictator, and maybe even SF4 one (IIRC that's the strongest version of Dictator in his post-Alpha body), after one hell of a fight.

But Shin Vega is still too strong even for SF3 Ryu imho.

I'm revisiting this thread with new information. Now that Shin Evil Ryu actually occurred in SFIV, this makes Ryu SIGNIFICANTLY STRONGER. SFIII's canon states Ryu is beyond the SNH and Shin Evil Ryu is SIGNIFICANTLY stronger in SFIV than he has ever been before. Keep in mind, Capcom has no intention of retconning SFIII, since they still consider the game the sequel to SFIV's story, even in OE trailers and official descriptions.

Think about Shin Evil Ryu and where he stands in SFIV, then remember that Normal Ryu is more powerful by the time of 3S. I think Ryu of SFIII, going all out may just be a match for Shin Vega.

And how strong is Shin Evil Ryu, exactly?

More powerful than Shin Gouki is in SFIV. That's for sure.

Is this Shin Bison as in Bison from the Alpha series or Shin Bison from EX2 & 3?
If it's from the Alpha series then Ryu has a great chance since he caused Bison to retreat in Alpha 3.

Originally posted by Frisky Dingo
I'm revisiting this thread with new information. Now that Shin Evil Ryu actually occurred in SFIV, this makes Ryu SIGNIFICANTLY STRONGER. SFIII's canon states Ryu is beyond the SNH and Shin Evil Ryu is SIGNIFICANTLY stronger in SFIV than he has ever been before. Keep in mind, Capcom has no intention of retconning SFIII, since they still consider the game the sequel to SFIV's story, even in OE trailers and official descriptions.

Think about Shin Evil Ryu and where he stands in SFIV, then remember that Normal Ryu is more powerful by the time of 3S. I think Ryu of SFIII, going all out may just be a match for Shin Vega.


And this is why them reachin these lvls in canon F**Ks up the entire tier list. SFIV just F**Ks up the tier list, in general. Cheggit

Established list
Average Tier
Dan and Sean

Street Fighter Tier
Almost everyone else not mentioned above or bellow. While these characters could beat one another, they wouldn't be that far apart to be on different tiers.

+ Have you seen Chun Li's feats in SFIV?! She makes giant craters and stops speedin cars without detroyin'em easily. So either Chun Li is moves up into a newly established tier, just for her, or she just made this tier 10X more bad ass. This in turn, makes the higher lvls even more powerful.



Sub-Boss Tier
Ryu*, Sagat, Vega, Balrog, Charlie, Juri, Seth (possibly) and Urien*.

+ Now that Shin Evil Ryu is canon and SFIII: OE is considered the sequel to SFIV with no retcons, this means that Ryu of SFIII is beyond Shin Evil Ryu, who is beyond Shin Akuma in SFIV. Keep in mind Reg Akuma is blowin islands with punches decades before IV. This means that Ryu, at full power, is stronger than Reg Akuma of SFIII. And why not? Akuma's got better feats in SFIII, but that doesn't make Ryu weaker. Ryu can now replicate SFIII Akuma's feats? Ryu is no longer in this tier, for sure. And now almost everyone else being in this tier is questionable.

+ Urien was said to be "entertained" in a fight with SFIII Chun Li. We seen what Chun Li can do in the previous series as a young ICPO officer. In SFIII she's a F**Kin middle aged Kung Fu Master, obviously capable of much more than what she did in that fight with Bison. Because of this, Urien is at least SFII Bison level. And we now got a big jist of what Bison can do at that lvl. SFIV makes Urien, vastly, more powerful.


Boss Tier
Rose*, Gen, and Seth (possibly)

+ We all now have some sort of grip on the power of SFII Bison. Well the Alpha version of Reg Bison is twice as powerful, and Rose killed'em. She is much stronger now.



Final Boss Tier
Akuma, Gouken, Oro*, Gill and Shin Bison.

+ Shin Evil Ryu is stronger than Shin Akuma, in SFIV. This makes him stronger than Reg Akuma of SFIII. SFIII Ryu surpasses Shin Evil Ryu, this leads to Ryu now being noticeably more powerful than Reg Akuma of SFIII. Oro beats SFIII Ryu with One Damn Hand. Now let's be honest here, not that much time has passed from III to IV. Shin Akuma of SFIII isn't that much stronger than Shin Akuma of IV. So now, accordin' to this stupid shit being made canon, Ryu of SFIII is in Shin Akuma of SFIII territory. Oro beat Ryu's ass with One Hand. I'm just gonna say what needs to be said. . .Oro is gonna beat the shit outta Shin Akuma. Oro is not is not in this tier, anymore.

+ Due to Bison tankin that blast and dishin out the power he did shortly after SFII, this entire tier just got one Helluva boost. Shin Bison is much stronger than what we thought.




*New Tier: Vaguely Beyond Final Boss Tier (Which is ridiculously powerful tier.)*
Accordin to the "story", Ryu is in this tier, he is at the bottom of it. Oni and Oro pretty much make this tier up.

+Now, because Oni and Oro have not fought anyone in the previous tier to the death, you could be hyper anal about the facts and say that this tier doesn't really exist. But really, we've argued for years about Shin Akuma VS Oro VS Gill VS Shin Bison. Well now Akuma's got a form beyond what he had that made the argument in the 1st place. Oni has 1 up over the guys in the previous tier until the other guys demonstrate a higher lvl power than what they have. Oni would decimate Ryu and it's a toss up between him and Oro, thanks to Oro skoolin the shit outta Ryu..





God Tier
Ingrid
+ With how stupid the story's gotten, o'course they wouldn't right this ***** off as a mistake.

If you ponder on this subject for a few moments, you'll realize that the tiers appear to shift dramatically because of Ryu. So much information dealing with him has been divulged, recently, and he's also such a central character; everyone else shifts in relation to him.

Just a few things I would like to add, Gouken follows Gouki. It's highly possible and likely that Gouken may also have a higher form when dealing with the full power of Mu. Now this isn't a fact, but it's very possible. Oni has not surpassed Gill, either. Gill is still shown to be capable of splitting a sea and sky, raising a mountain, and forcing his influence on said mountain. All of which with a smile on his face and a wave of his hand. Gill at his max could very well face Oni in an even match, we just don't know. And as far as Shin Vega is concerned, imagine what did in his bout with Ryu and crew, quadrupled with intensified psychic abilities. His power could reach even higher levels if his body could sustain him.

So with that on the floor, I don't think Gouki's new Oni form is enough for him to ascend beyond the Final Boss tier. No one in this tier has been shown at a power that's actually gaugable. Out of the group, Vega's power is the nearest to grasp. You could include Shin Vega, in a debate and at full power without much speculation. I agree on the rest, though. Ryu is potentially in the Final Boss tier, as well. But he's clearly at the bottom, since in his most current canon form, he lost to some one in the same tier.

But now I wonder, III Normal Gouki VS III Ryu, who would win? I have no doubt that Shin Gouki of III would slaughter III Ryu, though. As for this thread, Ryu actually has a chance.

Originally posted by Frisky Dingo
If you ponder on this subject for a few moments, you'll realize that the tiers appear to shift dramatically because of Ryu. So much information dealing with him has been divulged, recently, and he's also such a central character; everyone else shifts in relation to him.

Just a few things I would like to add, Gouken follows Gouki. It's highly possible and likely that Gouken may also have a higher form when dealing with the full power of Mu. Now this isn't a fact, but it's very possible. Oni has not surpassed Gill, either. Gill is still shown to be capable of splitting a sea and sky, raising a mountain, and forcing his influence on said mountain. All of which with a smile on his face and a wave of his hand. Gill at his max could very well face Oni in an even match, we just don't know. And as far as Shin Vega is concerned, imagine what did in his bout with Ryu and crew, quadrupled with intensified psychic abilities. His power could reach even higher levels if his body could sustain him.

So with that on the floor, I don't think Gouki's new Oni form is enough for him to ascend beyond the Final Boss tier. No one in this tier has been shown at a power that's actually gaugable. Out of the group, Vega's power is the nearest to grasp. You could include Shin Vega, in a debate and at full power without much speculation. I agree on the rest, though. Ryu is potentially in the Final Boss tier, as well. But he's clearly at the bottom, since in his most current canon form, he lost to some one in the same tier.


That form O logic is. . .understandable. But yur indirectly implyin is that Shin Akuma would not be on the same lvl as Gill @ full power and Shin Vega @ full power.

And with Shin Bison, you gotta realize that, like you said, we got a hold on what he can do. F**K what he could do if he had a body that could take in all of his power. Fact is, he doesn't and he never had one. His limits are known and I think Shin Akuma could match his limits.

Also, when usin my shit, all of your info was left intact. Like yur email, facebook, twitter, various forum accounts (includin this one and SRK). . .and I'm holdin'em for ransom. Meet my demands or I will ruin your life!

Originally posted by No End N Site
That form O logic is. . .understandable. But yur indirectly implyin is that Shin Akuma would not be on the same lvl as Gill @ full power and Shin Vega @ full power.

And with Shin Bison, you gotta realize that, like you said, we got a hold on what he can do. F**K what he could do if he had a body that could take in all of his power. Fact is, he doesn't and he never had one. His limits are known and I think Shin Akuma could match his limits.

Also, when usin my shit, all of your info was left intact. Like yur email, facebook, twitter, various forum accounts (includin this one and SRK). . .and I'm holdin'em for ransom. Meet my demands or I will ruin your life!

That's NOT what I'm implying. All I'm stating is, that could be a possibility. I'm not trying to debate that.

Granted......well not entirely. My point still stands, he can fire off at least, one city busting blast. He can fly at mach speeds, teleport/warp, open worm holes, has high level psychic abilities like TK and Hypnosis, direct soul attacks, immortality, and can easily tank nuke sized blast. This does not include, at all, demonstrations of his power and ability at weaker levels. Showings that would no doubt be amplified with the Psycho Drive. Gouki may be in his league, but a victory for either is still debatable.

Go ahead, I dare you. Just know that my fury is like that of a billion super nova. I'll send you back to a point where the Earth hadn't a moon.

Let me take a quick moment to dissect yur post.

Originally posted by Frisky Dingo
My point still stands, he can fire off at least, one city busting blast.

Akuma can vape an island. Island>City. And Akuma can do so with a punch, in a far weaker state.


Originally posted by Frisky Dingo
He can fly at mach speeds, teleport/warp open worm holes,

Okay, he has this over Akuma.

Originally posted by Frisky Dingo
has high level psychic abilities like TK and Hypnosis,

He has TK over Akuma, but Akuma's mind is too powerful for hypnosis.

Originally posted by Frisky Dingo
direct soul attacks,

Akuma has these and they are stronger.

Originally posted by Frisky Dingo
immortality,
Okay, Bison has an edge here.

Originally posted by Frisky Dingo
and can easily tank nuke sized blast

Akuma can tank his own attacks and they do greater damage than a nuke would.

Now, if I can sit here and counter most of yur points with Reg Akuma on the brain, what is Oni gonna do? Use yur Human Senses, man.

Originally posted by Frisky Dingo
Go ahead, I dare you. Just know that my fury is like that of a billion super nova. I'll send you back to a point where the Earth hadn't a moon.

And the battle begins. . .

What you forget is, Gouki has a new level of power because he has a new form. Who is to say that when the other characters are at their max, they too will posses new forms.

Oro only uses 1 arm, Gouken has yet to show the full power of Mu, and Gill went from red and blue naked guy to GLOWING red and blue naked guy with 6 angel wings. There's still reason to believe that these characters posses higher forms, as well.

You are assumin a great deal, beyond normal common sense. I don't do that in actual debates. As it stands, Akuma has a greater form, the others don't. I'm not gonna assume they do.

However, Oro being as strong as Oni, is granted. Solely because Oro beat SFIII Ryu with one hand.

None of what you said matters. Gouki may have a higher form, but in order for me to consider the form, automatically stronger than his peers; the full extent of his peer's power must be known and the full extent of Oni's power must be known.

We don't know enough about either factor. You'd do well to just drop the subject since we're clearly just going to disagree on this.