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I've been wondering...in an all out force battle can anyone beat starkiller with both bloodlusted and using on the force?

yes. yes they can. Luke or Sidious or Abeloth or Nihilus or Yoda or.... really a lot of other people to.

I wouldn't say a lot of people. The above as well as Bane, Traya and maybe that Vol guy Gideon has such a raging hardon for are it imo and many of those are extremely close. Starkiller is definately a top-tier Force-wielder.

right, but he isn't the guy who you say "starkiller vs. anyone" in a thread about.

and Vol got his ass kicked without even a fight scene description by Abeloth.

I'd need to see proof for Bane and Traya.

Originally posted by truejedi
and Vol got his ass kicked without even a fight scene description by Abeloth.

I'm not sure if this is exactly relevant since Abeloth herself says that Vol's power is close to Luke's own. Abeloth was disguised as a rising Senator at the time and cloaked her Force powers so that the Lost Tribe could not detect any Force sensitivity from her. It is entirely possible that she, appearance disguised and powers cloaked, annihilated Vol simply because he was unprepared for her. Earlier in Ascension, he defeats her in their psychic battle.

I think the accumulated evidence of years worth of debates is enough for Bane personally. And Traya just because of TEH GIGA-DRAIN!

Originally posted by Nephthys
I think the accumulated evidence of years worth of debates is enough for Bane personally.

Nah.

Originally posted by Nephthys
And Traya just because of TEH GIGA-DRAIN!

wut

You know its true. Can't block teh giga-drain.

exile luke palpatine sion nhiulus (is that how it is spelled)

I really don't respect Traya's Giga-drain. it means very little considering her victim's abilities are unknown.

Originally posted by truejedi
I really don't respect Traya's Giga-drain. it means very little considering her victim's abilities are unknown.

This.

Really DE, do we have to go over this again?

We know they were powerful. But then pretty much any Jedi with a name in the mythos is called "powerful" or "has a strong connection to the Force."

Useless tripe. Kavar sucks.

Hm, how about Nomi Sunrider? She did force-severe on a foe of known power.

Originally posted by Slash_KMC
This.

Really DE, do we have to go over this again?

Of course not.

Not unless you defy me. sneer

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
We know they were powerful. But then pretty much any Jedi with a name in the mythos is called "powerful" or "has a strong connection to the Force."

Yes. Wait, no. Coleman Trebor.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Of course not.

Not unless you defy me. sneer

I wouldn't dare of thinking to maybe eventually try to hope of defying you.

you don't have to defy someone who is just plain incorrect...

Originally posted by Q99
Hm, how about Nomi Sunrider? She did force-severe on a foe of known power.

That she did. But Qel-Droma is known mostly for his incredible saber prowess, not his amazing Force powers. The same attack from a more powerful Jedi against Kun did nothing.

As for Traya, I realize a lot of forumers here like to piss and moan, but the point is there is seemingly no defense for what Traya did, and she did it instantly. How you could argue Starkiller would adequately defend against what an entire planets' worth of Jedi and Miralukans couldn't baffles me.

um, you are getting what Traya did mixed up with what N. did. I respect N's drain. The scale is much greater.

She did kill/overpower 3 Jedi Masters with it though. Starkiller couldn't even overpower Shaak Ti effectively.

Plus theres no evidence that it can actually be blocked.

Originally posted by truejedi
you don't have to defy someone who is just plain incorrect...

That seems like defiance to me mother****er.

no evidence it can't be blocked... i mean, technically there is no evidence that luke's electric judgement can be blocked either, but we don't give him an instant kill in every fight.

Originally posted by Nephthys
She did kill/overpower 3 Jedi Masters with it though. Starkiller couldn't even overpower Shaak Ti effectively.

Yea, though Shaak Ti is on the high-end of Jedi masters.

exactly. DE, you say "starkiller couldn't overpower shaak ti" as though Traya could...

Originally posted by truejedi
no evidence it can't be blocked... i mean, technically there is no evidence that luke's electric judgement can be blocked either, but we don't give him an instant kill in every fight.

Luke usually does win most of his fights though, because he is clearly such a high-level Force user. However, Plo Koon used the same attack twice and didn't kill a criminal, whereas Luke was able to juice his enough to kill a Vong. Clearly, the ability is not insta-kill in its nature; it's the nature of Luke to have the power to kill a Vong with it. How it works against a Force-user remains to be seen.

On the flip side, the Force Drain ability used specifically by Kreia and Nihilus (and their entire sect to some degree or another) can be used to kill multiple Force users without any apparent defense. To put it this way, all Kreia had to do is gesture. Nihilus, though on a different level of power, only had to speak. Prep time is zero. Time to react is milliseconds. Known defense? None. Not even Kreia, who arguably re-pioneered the ability for the KotOR era Sith, could withstand it. She is drained of her powers but not killed by Nihilus, since both he and Sion sought to break her but not kill her.

And it all comes back to Starkiller. This ability hasn't been seen in thousands of years. Starkiller, despite his OMFG TK and potential, is a Force noob. He is not a learned Sith or Jedi Master of old. He is some punk, who will die quickly.

Originally posted by Stealth Moose
That she did. But Qel-Droma is known mostly for his incredible saber prowess, not his amazing Force powers. The same attack from a more powerful Jedi against Kun did nothing.

Who tried Wall of Light on Kun that was stronger than Sunrider..?


Anyway, you bring up another good candidate: Exar Kun and his force-blasts.

Originally posted by truejedi
no evidence it can't be blocked... i mean, technically there is no evidence that luke's electric judgement can be blocked either, but we don't give him an instant kill in every fight.

Lukes electric judgement has never been said to be unblockable though. And its never been used against 3 battle-ready Jedi Masters effortless and without fail.

Theres also the fact that the technique was used against an entire planet of Miraluka and hundreds if not thousands of Jedi. Either it is unblockable or Nihilus is strong enough to overpower hundreds of Jedi Masters at once.



Do you really think that she is more powerul than 3 Jedi Masters combined?



She could.

Originally posted by Q99
Who tried Wall of Light on Kun that was stronger than Sunrider..?


Anyway, you bring up another good candidate: Exar Kun and his force-blasts.

Odan-Urr, who created the ability, attempted it on Kun. Kun was thrown back, but got up immediately and insta-killed Odan-Urr, presumably with some kind of OP force choke.

http://i55.tinypic.com/2hn2ovl.jpg

Originally posted by Nephthys

Do you really think that she is more powerul than 3 Jedi Masters combined?



I wouldn't think so, but sometimes one extra-strong defense is harder to breach than merely strong ones three times.

Originally posted by Stealth Moose
Luke usually does win most of his fights though, because he is clearly such a high-level Force user. However, Plo Koon used the same attack twice and didn't kill a criminal, whereas Luke was able to juice his enough to kill a Vong. Clearly, the ability is not insta-kill in its nature; it's the nature of Luke to have the power to kill a Vong with it. How it works against a Force-user remains to be seen.

I don't think it has ever been confirmed that Luke's ability was Electric Judgement in fact I recall it being called green fire or something like that. Furthermore, t was described as sparks and flames rather than lightning.

Originally posted by Q99
Who tried Wall of Light on Kun that was stronger than Sunrider..?


Anyway, you bring up another good candidate: Exar Kun and his force-blasts.

Odan-Urr tried it on Exar Kun and failed. Clearly it isn't unstopable.

Originally posted by Q99
I wouldn't think so, but sometimes one extra-strong defense is harder to breach than merely strong ones three times.

This is a weak statement though. Jedi gain strength in each others' presence. We see it in The Approaching Storm as Jedi channel their powers to repel foes and are indicated by foes to exponentially increase each others' strength, and we see it in the mass of Jedi over Yavin IV, who rain fire and light down on Exar Kun. If anything, three Jedi Masters who knew each other, and who are on their guard for deception and death would have ALL their defenses up and aid each other if possible.

Bottom line, Starkiller's melee tooling of Shaak Ti doesn't account for anything. He has no standing knowledge of or ability to defeat the drain.

Originally posted by Q99
I wouldn't think so, but sometimes one extra-strong defense is harder to breach than merely strong ones three times.

Examples perhaps?

Originally posted by ares834
I don't think it has ever been confirmed that Luke's ability was Electric Judgement in fact I recall it being called green fire or something like that. Furthermore, t was described as sparks and flames rather than lightning.

The general idea around here from folks who have read the books is that it is Electric judgement. But that's irrelevant in any case. It's never been used against a Force user.



But that's not Kreia's ability; it's Nomi's. Follow along closely.

Originally posted by Stealth Moose
The general idea around here from folks who have read the books is that it is Electric judgement. But that's irrelevant in any case. It's never been used against a Force user.

I'm not the one saying it's unblockable just pointing it out.



I was talking to Q99 and her theory that Nomi could sever SK from the force. It had nothing to do with force drain...

Originally posted by ares834
I'm not the one saying it's unblockable just pointing it out.



I was talking to Q99 and her theory that Nomi could sever SK from the force. It had nothing to do with force drain...

Fair enough.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Examples perhaps?

Mace Windu compared to the three failateers.

Thats lightsabers.

Originally posted by ares834
Mace Windu compared to the three failateers.

That doesn't count. He's black, so he had to win. Palpatine knew if he beat Mace Windu in a fair fight, he'd be the universe's first racist emperor.

Sure but it is an example of "one extra-strong defense (that) is harder to breach than merely strong ones three times".



In all honesty though I'd be inclined to agree Traya would drain SK. I just have to oppose it on principle.

Originally posted by ares834
Sure but it is an example of "one extra-strong defense (that) is harder to breach than merely strong ones three times".



In all honesty though I'd be inclined to agree Traya would drain SK. I just have to oppose it on principle.

What principle? Starkiller is an atrocity to EU and that's saying quite a bit. I mean, EU has Luke Skywalker TKing AT-AT walkers and Sidious teleporting crap with wormholes, etc. EU has star destroying ships belonging to folks who dress like Egyptians and lack blasters. EU brought us Splinter of the Mind's Eye.

Originally posted by Stealth Moose
That doesn't count. He's black, so he had to win. Palpatine knew if he beat Mace Windu in a fair fight, he'd be the universe's first racist emperor.

But he lost. So does that make him the first Republican Emperor? mmm

Touche.

I'd put Odan-Urr below Nomi, personally... though we're drifting increasingly far

Originally posted by Stealth Moose
This is a weak statement though. Jedi gain strength in each others' presence. We see it in The Approaching Storm as Jedi channel their powers to repel foes and are indicated by foes to exponentially increase each others' strength, and we see it in the mass of Jedi over Yavin IV, who rain fire and light down on Exar Kun. If anything, three Jedi Masters who knew each other, and who are on their guard for deception and death would have ALL their defenses up and aid each other if possible.

Solid points, though at the time they were hit, I don't think they were specifically working together on a defense.

Originally posted by Q99
I'd put Odan-Urr below Nomi, personally... though we're drifting increasingly far

Nomi's level of rapid progression in all things Jedi baffles the mind. She's a lightsaber pro in seconds and perfectly masters the Wall of Light on her first try. She's like the Shatterstar of SW.



Agreed, it's hard to tell.

u kno, if the Revan book makes him look pretty average, it's gonna make traya look bad by extension, and the entire era also look pretty shabby. (considering he was unspeakably amazing, supposedly)

It'll take his fanboys down a peg.

Originally posted by NTJack0
It'll take his fanboys down a peg. It'll make you shut up

Originally posted by truejedi
u kno, if the Revan book makes him look pretty average, it's gonna make traya look bad by extension, and the entire era also look pretty shabby. (considering he was unspeakably amazing, supposedly)

That's a huge IF though. Drew's main concern was that people were assuming Revan > all based on gameplay, not obvious feats added to the lore of Revan by the writers themselves. I've spoken with him about the final duel via email previously, and he indicated that it was "epic", and that Malak had home court advantage, but Revan still took home the win.

You can balance "epic" and "badass" without all fights being two-second mop ups. I mean, we all agree that Yoda is badass, but he struggled with powerful foes. The same can be said of Kenobi, Luke Skywalker, etc.

Drew's writing the book. Don't worry Revan will be uber and will be a fanboys wet dream.


Originally posted by lord starkiller
It'll make you shut up


facepalm

Revan deserves to the better video game character than Starkiller.

I'd be more tempted to have TFU declared non-canon.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Theres also the fact that the technique was used against an entire planet of Miraluka and hundreds if not thousands of Jedi. Either it is unblockable or Nihilus is strong enough to overpower hundreds of Jedi Masters at once.

N. was nothing like Kreia, he wasn't even human. You can't say that because N. used that technique to kill many Jedi that the technique could do that while being used by someone else.

Same goes for any Force Power actually. Isn't the strength of a technique dependant on the strenght of the user?



Three Jedi Masters who did what exactly to prove their power?



Prove it.

Thanks slash. i actually committed forum suicide, because it's asinine that we keep coming back to this, but before the axe drops, I want to thank you for years of fighting the good fight. : )

Originally posted by Stealth Moose
Yoda is badass, but he struggled with powerful foes.

haermm

Originally posted by Stealth Moose
What principle? Starkiller is an atrocity to EU and that's saying quite a bit. I mean, EU has Luke Skywalker TKing AT-AT walkers and Sidious teleporting crap with wormholes, etc. EU has star destroying ships belonging to folks who dress like Egyptians and lack blasters. EU brought us Splinter of the Mind's Eye.

And yet I prefer Starkiller over almost all of that. Sure it's a stupid story and is another OP force user shoehorned into the OT but compared to a planet destroying Sith... Yeah, it's not that bad.

katarn was the first extra force-user shoe-horned in wasn't he?

Originally posted by Slash_KMC
N. was nothing like Kreia, he wasn't even human. You can't say that because N. used that technique to kill many Jedi that the technique could do that while being used by someone else.

Not on that scale perhaps but the point still stands. Do we think that the attack is unblockable or do we think that Nihilus is strong enough to overwhelm hundreds of Jedi Masters at once?



Is it? What we are asking is whether the attack is even dependant upon strength. Theres quite a bit of evidence that says no.



They were Jedi Council Members during wartime with one of them apparantly the Battlemaster of the Order. Kavar and Douche Van Baldy both can Stasis Field around a dozen combatants at once and all of them were advanced enough to utilise the Wall of Light technique, a high level technique noted to be 'difficult' to perform on top of possessing those advanced lightsaber forms and Force techniques that you can steal from them.

And even if they were only 2's while an average Jedi Master is a 3 and an above average one is a 4 or a 5, 3 of them still adds up to 6.

Simple.



Very well. Why don't we take this to the proper thread however.




Hey man you're the one who brought it up. You could of just let me keep my opinions to myself.




Problem?

The drain is not unblockable. Uliq Qel-Droma knew a technique to protect individuals from the similar drain of the Force Harvester and, via hologram, instructed it to Anakin Skywalker during the events of the 2002 Clone Wars video game.

Similar /=/ Same.


Plus prove that Starkiller or Shaat Ti knew that technique. he

Originally posted by Nephthys
Similar /=/ Same.

There is no distinction between the nature and effect of either technique.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Plus prove that Starkiller or Shaat Ti knew that technique. he

Brilliant logician and clever individual I am, I never asserted anything.

Originally posted by Turr_Phennir
There is no distinction between the nature and effect of either technique.

Is there not?

mK8UiRGIltY

Did it also resemble this?

Did Kreia's?

Originally posted by ares834
Did Kreia's?

Oh snap.

No, but that gameplay animations aren't exactly canon are they. As it is, Unseen, Unheard was created by Chris Avellone, so he is perfectly in his rights to retcon the visuals of it should he wish.

Originally posted by Nephthys
No, but that gameplay animations aren't exactly canon are they.

If they're in a cutscene, they are. If they're not, I'm not sure why you're arguing the feat in the first place.

Though that would certainly explain the conflict between what we see in the game and what we see in the comic, thus lending credibility to RagingBoner's original argument that the events of Unseen, Unheard do not necessarily reflect what actually happened....

Well done, Ares. You've given me even moar ammo.

Simply because it achieves the same effect does not mean that it is the same technique. You could stop me from ripping out your eye with my bare hands but you could not stop me from ripping it out with telekinesis. While both have the same outcome, the way in which they go about it is different.

Originally posted by Turr_Phennir
If they're in a cutscene, they are. If they're not, I'm not sure why you're arguing the feat in the first place.

Though that would certainly explain the conflict between what we see in the game and what we see in the comic, thus lending credibility to RagingBoner's original argument that the events of Unseen, Unheard do not necessarily reflect what actually happened....

Well done, Ares. You've given me even moar ammo.

Nice way to completely miss half my post Gideon.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Simply because it achieves the same effect does not mean that it is the same technique. You could stop me from ripping out your eye with my bare hands but you could not stop me from ripping it out with telekinesis. While both have the same outcome, the way in which they go about it is different.

haermm

The inherent problem with this is that both are Force-based techniques specifically designed to perform the same effect, both steeped in ancient Sith teachings, and there isn't any reason to assume otherwise. I mean, hell, didn't you assume that Plo Koon and Luke Skywalker's techniques were the same based off description and effect?

Originally posted by Turr_Phennir
haermm

The inherent problem with this is that both are Force-based techniques specifically designed to perform the same effect, both steeped in ancient Sith teachings, and there isn't any reason to assume otherwise.

Do you even know how Nihilus' technique works? I sincerely doubt a machine could do it.

Originally posted by Turr_Phennir
I mean, hell, didn't you assume that Plo Koon and Luke Skywalker's techniques were the same based off description and effect?

No.

Plus description and effect is enough to conclude its the same. Merely effect is not.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Do you even know how Nihilus' technique works? I sincerely doubt a machine could do it.

Well I doubt that the technique is unblockable, so there. 13

Originally posted by Nephthys
No.

Oh, that was Janus. Damn it, I thought I had you there. mmm

Originally posted by Nephthys
Plus description and effect is enough to conclude its the same. Merely effect is not.

You certainly didn't seem to mind that here.

In any case, you have been unable to bring forth any evidence to the table as to why these two drains are different, in spite of evidence to the contrary. I realize why, of course, but I suggest you do so soon.

Originally posted by Turr_Phennir
Well I doubt that the technique is unblockable, so there. 13

Can machines form Force Bonds do you think?

Originally posted by Turr_Phennir
You certainly didn't seem to mind that here.

In any case, you have been unable to bring forth any evidence to the table as to why these two drains are different, in spite of evidence to the contrary. I realize why, of course, but I suggest you do so soon.

I said it 'fits.' I would never use it in an actual debate.

How about it not resembling Nihilus Drain? Or does that just not count as evidence for you?

wait, so now you are saying Kreia's and N.'s drains are different? You have been claiming they were the same literally for years.

And they don't look the same, at all. I have always said one wasn't the same as the other.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Can machines form Force Bonds do you think?

Doubt it. Is it relevant?

Originally posted by Nephthys
How about it not resembling Nihilus Drain?

In what regard? Physical effect, i.e. property damage?

Originally posted by Nephthys
Or does that just not count as evidence for you?

Well not without sources. Why are you always reluctant to provide them?

Originally posted by Nephthys
I said it 'fits.' I would never use it in an actual debate.

But you did, later in that thread, to assert Kreia's command of the shatterpoint is greater than Mace's.

Are you positive that you're just not indulging in double standards because you prefer KotOR II characters to those who aren't?

This is slightly off-topic, but as I was Google searching some material for this debate, I stumbled across an interesting debate in which one of our own is currently engaged. Someone is spreading his evil elsewhere!

Originally posted by Turr_Phennir
Doubt it. Is it relevant?



In what regard? Physical effect, i.e. property damage?



Well not without sources. Why are you always reluctant to provide them?



But you did, later in that thread, to assert Kreia's command of the shatterpoint is greater than Mace's.

Are you positive that you're just not indulging in double standards because you prefer KotOR II characters to those who aren't?

Its how his technique works. So yes, its very relevant.

I don't know. You've never actually shown the Dark Reaper in action.

haermm What have I not provided. You're teh one who's never actually shown the fvcking thing!

I said probably.

Quite positive.



No.

okay, good. because they look completely different, you know that right?

like N.'s is all invisible, and Kreia's is all orange lightning. I don't even begin to see a comparison based on visual evidence (which, in lieu of narrative, is all we have)

Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. Wait. Halt.

So, first you assert that the Dark Reaper's drain and that of Nihilus don't resemble one another:



But then when I ask you for specifics, you say:



haermm

Well then show it.

Originally posted by Turr_Phennir
This is slightly off-topic, but as I was Google searching some material for this debate, I stumbled across an interesting debate in which one of our own is currently engaged. Someone is spreading his evil elsewhere!

Huh, someone linked to your essay at the end there. That wouldn't happen to be you now would it?

Teeheehee.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Well then show it.

Hem-hem.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Hem-hem.

Apologies, I was slightly overwhelmed by your dishonesty.

Apologies. Being overwhelmed by me is nothing to apologise for.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Apologies. Being overwhelmed by me is nothing to apologise for.

Well one could definitely say that it's futile to debate with you. haermm

Indeed. I am infallible.

haermm

Originally posted by Nephthys
Not on that scale perhaps but the point still stands. Do we think that the attack is unblockable or do we think that Nihilus is strong enough to overwhelm hundreds of Jedi Masters at once?

I've already told you how Nihilus isn't even human, apparently the creators of Nihilus have decided that he should be some kind of void that destroys the Force (and thus the entire galaxy right?) enabling him to kill a large amount of Force users. Can Kreia do that? No, because they're two different characters with a different amount of power.



I'm quite sure that the more powerful the user, the more powerful the effects of the attack. Just like Force Lightning, Telekinesis, Battle Meditation, etc...

Also, a maybe off-topic question, but why didn't she use the attack on Sion if the attack is unblockable? Hmm, maybe because Sion was more powerful perhaps?



Those are titles, Council members are not soley chosen for their power by the way and the Battlemaster of the Golden Era of the Jedi got killed by a one handed Anakin.



Source please.



Wuuuut. I can't believe you said something like this. It's disturbing how you use numbers in this situation.

So if the three Masters attacking Sidious were 3's, because let's pretend they're just average Jedi Masters, then Sidious was at least a 9 (probably higher due to the quickness he killed them and not even counting Mace). A 9, while an above average Force user is 4 or 5? And Nihilus is more than a 200 then? 40 times the power of an above average Force user?



K.

Originally posted by Turr_Phennir
haermm

You doubt me? http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a351/shinsetsu0/icons/may%2009%202010/lackadaisy_rocky.png

INFALLIBEL!

Originally posted by Slash_KMC
I've already told you how Nihilus isn't even human, apparently the creators of Nihilus have decided that he should be some kind of void that destroys the Force (and thus the entire galaxy right?) enabling him to kill a large amount of Force users. Can Kreia do that? No, because they're two different characters with a different amount of power.

I fail to see what Nihilus unfortunate body woes have to do with anything. Does being merely a Force spirit mean that their attacks suddenly cannot be blocked or that they leap in power a few dozen times? I don't think so. Likewise merely being a Wound in the Force does not affect your overall power or combat effectiveness directly, but only instead with lots of DRAINAGE!

As I said, Kreia has never demonstrated the ability to kill on such a scale. But I take it that your talk about power has it that your answer to my question with a leaning to the latter? That Nihilus is in fact powerful enough to overwhelm an entire planet of Force Sensitives as well as hundreds of Jedi Masters?




Oh I quite agree. You might want to inform old Gid about that though.



When? While there was a Wound in the Force present or while she was still recovering from a bad case of Force-loss and Death.



It would be an issue that I imagine would be foremost on their minds during a war.

So did Sidious.



Kotor 2.



My logic is infallible.



Mmmmmmm, no I think not. Sidious overwhelmed them. He was simply too quick for them to react to and killed them one by one. Kreia overpowered them all at the same time. So she would need to be either attacking each individual with more power than they could defend against at teh same time, or simply using an unblockable attack.




You're the one saying it, not me.



<3

Originally posted by Nephthys
I fail to see what Nihilus unfortunate body woes have to do with anything. Does being merely a Force spirit mean that their attacks suddenly cannot be blocked or that they leap in power a few dozen times? I don't think so. Likewise merely being a Wound in the Force does not affect your overall power or combat effectiveness directly, but only instead with lots of DRAINAGE

As I said, Kreia has never demonstrated the ability to kill on such a scale. But I take it that your talk about power has it that your answer to my question with a leaning to the latter? That Nihilus is in fact powerful enough to overwhelm an entire planet of Force Sensitives as well as hundreds of Jedi Masters?

Yes, I can't deny that Nihilus is in fact powerful enough to overwhelm an entire planet of Force Sensitives. I'm not saying it's not retarded though.

But the way his hunger works does have to do with the way he is. Before Malachor he wouldn't have been able to do that.



He says that a technique is not dependant on the power of it's user?



Other thread. I'm not in the mood for repeating too much.



Really? I'd think the first criteria to choose a leader in times of war would be his wisdom and strategic intelligence...







I don't remember the words "Wall of Light" in the game...



But Sidious is more powerful than all 3 of them together though. Which makes him at least a 9.



I'm using your number logic. To show how WRONG it is.



Rawr.

Originally posted by Slash_KMC
Yes, I can't deny that Nihilus is in fact powerful enough to overwhelm an entire planet of Force Sensitives. I'm not saying it's not retarded though.

But the way his hunger works does have to do with the way he is. Before Malachor he wouldn't have been able to do that.

Well I'll have to bring that up in the future. Overpowering that many other Jedi at once is unprecidented. For reference, Bane was unable to overpower as little as 8 Umbaran assassins. Nihilus truely would be ungodly powerful if we scale that.

(personally I'm sticking to the 'unblockable technique' though)

Originally posted by Slash_KMC
He says that a technique is not dependant on the power of it's user?

He says that this one isn't.

Originally posted by Slash_KMC
Other thread. I'm not in the mood for repeating too much.

Oh, very well.

Originally posted by Slash_KMC
Really? I'd think the first criteria to choose a leader in times of war would be his wisdom and strategic intelligence...

Thats because our leaders don't wade into battle like Jedi Masters do.

Plus the Jedi Masters completely failed on the wisdom and strategy front.


Originally posted by Slash_KMC
I don't remember the words "Wall of Light" in the game...

The actual words were not but you do remember when they were trying to cut the Exile off from the Force right?

Originally posted by Slash_KMC
But Sidious is more powerful than all 3 of them together though. Which makes him at least a 9.

Truely? I don't think he is.

Originally posted by Slash_KMC
I'm using your number logic. To show how WRONG it is.



"Yes, I can't deny that Nihilus is in fact powerful enough to overwhelm an entire planet of Force Sensitives."

mmm

I was going to close this because it technically breaks the rules, but there is a good discussion going on so continue.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Well I'll have to bring that up in the future. Overpowering that many other Jedi at once is unprecidented. For reference, Bane was unable to overpower as little as 8 Umbaran assassins. Nihilus truely would be ungodly powerful if we scale that.

(personally I'm sticking to the 'unblockable technique' though)

The creators have made it clear that they wanted to make this character so powerful. What with his pulling ships from cores and stuff.




I don't think a weak Force user would be able to use this technique as efficient as Kreia.




Wait, have we seen even ONE council member wade into battle during the KOTOR games? To me they pretty much seemed to stay at Dantooine to train new Jedi while they send the others out to battle.

There is also nothing to indicate they failed during any of the wars... They got overpowered by Revan's intelligence and overwhelming amount of fast-producing ships at first, but after that and Bastila Shan using her Battle Meditation it was pretty even. Also, during TOR there is nothing to indicate that they completely failed in intelligence and wisdom.



Mhm: "Kavar and Douche Van Baldy both can Stasis Field around a dozen combatants at once and all of them were advanced enough to utilise the Wall of Light technique, a high level technique noted to be 'difficult' to perform on top of possessing those advanced lightsaber forms and Force techniques that you can steal from them."

1) both can Stasis Field around a dozen combatants at once,

When did this happen. What does this have to do with trying to cut the Exile off from the Force.

2) noted to be 'difficult' to perform

Where is it noted. What does this have to do with trying to cut the Exile off from the Force.




Well that's your wrong opinion that contradicts the movie then.



That has nothing to do with your wrong use of numbers. It's like you're saying that because Magneto is a level 4 mutant, he can only take on a maximum of 4 level 1 mutants. It is just wrong to use numbers in a off nothing based way like this.

You're not SW_Legend are you?

Originally posted by Slash_KMC
The creators have made it clear that they wanted to make this character so powerful. What with his pulling ships from cores and stuff.

But the scale of it is ridiculous and contradictory. I will be continuing to use it as further evidence as to the attacks unblockable nature if you don't mind because anything else is patently absurd.


Originally posted by Slash_KMC
I don't think a weak Force user would be able to use this technique as efficient as Kreia.

Or as Nihilus.


Originally posted by Slash_KMC
Wait, have we seen even ONE council member wade into battle during the KOTOR games? To me they pretty much seemed to stay at Dantooine to train new Jedi while they send the others out to battle.

Erm, yes. Like, every single one of them in Kotor 2. Kavar protects the palace, Vrook defends Dantooine and Zez-Ki Ell attacks the Exchange. Theres alos the fact that it is far better to have leaders who can actually survive a war rather than those who would die at the first sign of battle. Vrook for example was able to survive and escape from Malaks attack on Dantooine.

And to have the Battlemaster of the Order be a weakling is ****ing retarded.

Originally posted by Slash_KMC
There is also nothing to indicate they failed during any of the wars... They got overpowered by Revan's intelligence and overwhelming amount of fast-producing ships at first, but after that and Bastila Shan using her Battle Meditation it was pretty even. Also, during TOR there is nothing to indicate that they completely failed in intelligence and wisdom.

In Kotor 2 the entire plot is about how much the Jedi Masters have cocked-up. About how they failed in their philosophy, teachings and strategy. They bungled the Mandalorian invasion, ****ed up with Revan, got the absolute shit kicked out of them by the Triumvirate and acted facepalmingly poorly in the face of the Exile's return. They had no plan to deal with the Sith. They got lucky that Bastila was able to use BM to save their asses and they got lucky that Revan was injured and captured and then saved their asses again. And then they got even more lucky that Revan didn't tear their heads off as soon as he regained his memories.

Who cares about TOR.

Originally posted by Slash_KMC
Mhm: "Kavar and Douche Van Baldy both can Stasis Field around a dozen combatants at once and all of them were advanced enough to utilise the Wall of Light technique, a high level technique noted to be 'difficult' to perform on top of possessing those advanced lightsaber forms and Force techniques that you can steal from them."

1) both can Stasis Field around a dozen combatants at once,

When did this happen. What does this have to do with trying to cut the Exile off from the Force.

Vrook does it if when you 'save' him from the dudes holding him captive in the cave. Kavar does it in the canteen where you meet him and the later in the palace. It has nothing to do with cutting the Exile off from the Force, I'm using it as an example of their power and skill.

Originally posted by Slash_KMC
2) noted to be 'difficult' to perform

Where is it noted. What does this have to do with trying to cut the Exile off from the Force.

"When you feel the dark side energies turned against you, you must use your Jedi abilities to take power away from an opponent, rather than to inflict harm. This technique blinds your enemy to the Force with a wall of light, a permanent blockage if you so choose, rendering him unable to use Jedi powers. It is difficult. And it is the most devastating attack possible using the powers of the light side."
-Odan-Urr, via the Tedryn Holocron

What the **** do you think it has to do with it?

Originally posted by Slash_KMC
Well that's your wrong opinion that contradicts the movie then.

No it isn't. It doesn't contradict the movie in any way.

Originally posted by Slash_KMC
That has nothing to do with your wrong use of numbers. It's like you're saying that because Magneto is a level 4 mutant, he can only take on a maximum of 4 level 1 mutants. It is just wrong to use numbers in a off nothing based way like this.

You're not SW_Legend are you?

No its nothing like that. Its like saying that because Magneto is a level 4 mutant who uses magntatism, he can only take on a maximum of 4 level 1 mutants who also use magnatism, if he does so all at the same time. You see, because they're focusing their power on him he is facing the brunt of their powers combined (or the otherway around, where he is splitting his power between them 4 times).

Its an equalisation of force you see, as if one person was pulling a rope on one end, while 4 people, who by themselves are only 25% as strong as him, are pulling on the other end. Combined, they can exert equal force as he can and so there is an equalibrium. Now if we take this to the Kreia example we have Kreia managing to pull on the rope so hard that the 3 Jedi Masters combined are not able to equal her exerted force, and thus she overpowers them.

As an aside, this is why Palpatine taking out the the B-team isn't a comparable example. He is not directly engaging their combined strength as Kreia is. He is running up to them and stabbing them in the face individually. Because as an individual he is faster than any of them can react. Now naturally he could take them out with the Force, because he could just attack them one at a time and overwhelm them one at a time, just like he did in lightsaber combat. But if he attacked all of them at once and still managed to overwhelm them? Now that an entirely different kettle of fish.

Or yeah, and the Jedi Masters also overpower and stun The Exile. For reference, this is the person who a few hours later runs through an entire Sith academy single-handedly and then defeats 2 Sith lords. Do you see what I mean when I talk about combined power?


Edit: 'magntatism' facepalm

Originally posted by Nephthys
But the scale of it is ridiculous and contradictory. I will be continuing to use it as further evidence as to the attacks unblockable nature if you don't mind because anything else is patently absurd.

As if this is the first the scale of a Force Power is ridiculous (see Gideon and Sidious for further examples). Also, how exactly is it contradictory?



There's no Galactic war during Kotor 2, nor is there a Jedi Order left. They weren't chosen to be on the Council to do all that, every Jedi could do that in fact.



And other Council members didn't survive Malaks attack ORBITAL BOMBING. How is Vrook powerful by surviving an orbital bombing, isn't that more likely due to his intelligence?

I still think Council members would rather have to be intelligent and wise than powerful.



Where did I say he was a "weakling"? Don't put words in my mouth please.



Remember, this is about what you need to be to get on the Jedi Council.

1) This entire Revan **** up during the Jedi Civil war wouldn't even have happened if every Jedi listened to the Council. I don't know how sending the strike team to kill Revan would be a stupid act either.

2) They got overpowered by Nihilus right before Kotor 2. I wouldn't actually consider it a total failure of their intelligence. They actually did have a plan to deal with the Sith after they finally revealed themselves (maybe you should play Kotor 2 again).

An intelligent and thought through plan may always have cons. If people could come up with plans without risks or disadvantages during war, they must be Godlike indeed.

And TOR features one of the largest wars ever, I think it would be logical to take this one in account as well.



Ehm what? Can you point to me exactly where he does it. I'll provide a link for you to make it easier: http://www.youtube.com/user/KotorHDTVChannel#p/u/22/0GNZoIriOMU



Around a dozen? I've checked and that's hardly around a dozen.





Could they use it individually or did they have to work together to perform it though?



Well, I don't feel like arguing over another completely different subject right now, but I let's just say that I do think he can overpower all 3 of them together.



But that way you have to add other variables as well. Both sides aren't even attacking at the same time. The Masters are charging with their lightsabers ready for a duel. She is using a Force Power, one they are not even familiar with. It's not like they are all using Force Push at the same time and she is overpowering them 3 to 1. That is, according to your own logic. Yoda hit Sidious with a Force Push and throws him over, does that make him more powerful?

Still the number system makes no sense and is not based on anything that can be proven. "2" being them and "4" being an above average Force user...

Originally posted by Slash_KMC
As if this is the first the scale of a Force Power is ridiculous (see Gideon and Sidious for further examples). Also, how exactly is it contradictory?

I don't recall Sidious ever overpowering a hundred Force users at once.

I'm fine if you want to argue this version though, as it would legitimately make Nihilus the most poweful thing in Star Wars save perhaps Abeloth.

Originally posted by Slash_KMC
There's no Galactic war during Kotor 2, nor is there a Jedi Order left. They weren't chosen to be on the Council to do all that, every Jedi could do that in fact.

Because theres already been a Galactic War. Which they survived. Even if they were not chosen for their strength, their survival proves it. People hold Coleman Trebor up as an example of why a Jedi master doesn't have to be powerful to be a Master. And he didn't survive the first 10 minutes of a war. These Masters survived years of it.

Originally posted by Slash_KMC
And other Council members didn't survive Malaks attack ORBITAL BOMBING. How is Vrook powerful by surviving an orbital bombing, isn't that more likely due to his intelligence?

Orbital bombing?

yk6bEPcCrRA&feature=channel_video_title

Now how exactly did Malak capture those intact Jedi bodies if he bombarded the Academy from orbit? I trust I don't need to remind you of the utter destruction an orbital bombardment causes. Enough to destroy an entire planets surface.

Originally posted by Slash_KMC
I still think Council members would rather have to be intelligent and wise than powerful.

To be on the Coucil perhaps. To still be on the Council after the Civil War and the Truimvirates Shadow War? No.

Originally posted by Slash_KMC
Where did I say he was a "weakling"? Don't put words in my mouth please.

The clear implication you are making is that though. I say that they're at least average Jedi Master levels and you attempt to refute me. I mean, you're actually arguing thet their power combined doesn't equal Shaak Ti. Wtf?! Its not like I'm calling these guys the second coming here! But overcoming 3 Master-level is impressive.

Originally posted by Slash_KMC
Remember, this is about what you need to be to get on the Jedi Council.

1) This entire Revan **** up during the Jedi Civil war wouldn't even have happened if every Jedi listened to the Council. I don't know how sending the strike team to kill Revan would be a stupid act either.

2) They got overpowered by Nihilus right before Kotor 2. I wouldn't actually consider it a total failure of their intelligence. They actually did have a plan to deal with the Sith after they finally revealed themselves (maybe you should play Kotor 2 again).

An intelligent and thought through plan may always have cons. If people could come up with plans without risks or disadvantages during war, they must be Godlike indeed.

And TOR features one of the largest wars ever, I think it would be logical to take this one in account as well.

1) Revan was a **** up because of how they handled Revan. Its their fault for training him incorrectly. He was their student. And their refusal to aid him during teh Madalorian War was what pushed him down the darkside in the first place.

2) Their plan was 'Lets wait and see.' Which was also their plan for the Mandalorian War. And the Initial Triumvirate attacks.

The Council ****ing suck in the Kotor games.

TOR happens 2-300 years after Kotor 2. I fail to see the relevence to the Kotor-era Council.

Originally posted by Slash_KMC
Ehm what? Can you point to me exactly where he does it. I'll provide a link for you to make it easier: http://www.youtube.com/user/KotorHDTVChannel#p/u/22/0GNZoIriOMU

He does it if you decide not to rescue him, escaping on his own.

Originally posted by Slash_KMC
Around a dozen? I've checked and that's hardly around a dozen.

8 or so iirc.

Originally posted by Slash_KMC
Could they use it individually or did they have to work together to perform it though?

It doesn't matter. Techniques do not get easier to perform when you work in tandem with other Jedi, they just get moe powerful.

Originally posted by Slash_KMC
Well, I don't feel like arguing over another completely different subject right now, but I let's just say that I do think he can overpower all 3 of them together.

Kewl.

Originally posted by Slash_KMC
But that way you have to add other variables as well. Both sides aren't even attacking at the same time. The Masters are charging with their lightsabers ready for a duel. She is using a Force Power, one they are not even familiar with. It's not like they are all using Force Push at the same time and she is overpowering them 3 to 1. That is, according to your own logic. Yoda hit Sidious with a Force Push and throws him over, does that make him more powerful?

Still the number system makes no sense and is not based on anything that can be proven. "2" being them and "4" being an above average Force user...


Not familiar with?

They're the ones who talk about the technique for 10 effing minutes right before she uses it one them. Its like 30 seconds apart. And if knowing about the tehnique is an issue, then its still unblockable because no Jedi outside of the game demonstrates knowledge of it.

No to the Sidious example because the PIS was rampant in that scene and again we must assume that he wasn't expecting it. He is giggling into his hand at the time.

Correct.

Technically, he overpowered ten thousand.

But when it came time for four, he couldn't finish the job.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
But when it came time for four, he couldn't finish the job.

Our last discussion had me suspicious, but this one confirms it: You didn't watch the same movies I did.

Because at the end of the movie I saw, all four of them died. At Palpatine's hands.

Why is Canadian sarcasm always misplaced?

He killed three, was almost killed by Mace, and required external intervention by Anakin. He killed four, but only overpowered three.

Are you sure you watched the same movies I did?

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
He killed three, was almost killed by Mace, and required external intervention by Anakin. He killed four, but only overpowered three.

Yeah, no, sweetheart. This is what you said,



I can bold it for you, if you like. I can also add colors and increase the font-size just in case you suffer from that pesky Antediluvian selective vision.

Now unless finish means something entirely different in Canada, and I have it on good faith that it doesn't, your attempt to successfully wield sarcasm must be judged as a failure. Because the film that I watched depicted the fight between those Jedi and Palpatine ending (finishing) with Windu dying at Palpatine's hands, just like his three companions.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
Are you sure you watched the same movies I did?

First, Hey, get you'reyour own material!

Second, obviously not:



...But I guess this is what happens when Plinkett's reading comprehension and misdirected sarcasm become contagious. Nicely done.

Uh-huh. You become quite the bother when someone disagrees with you, huh? I didn't think you'd get such a pedantic hard-on with the use of the word "finish", but hey... are you mad bro?

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
Uh-huh.

Concession accepted. sneer



If by bother, you mean "irritatingly makes an ass out of other people with their own poorly aimed sarcasm," then guilty.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
I didn't think you'd get such a pedantic hard-on with the use of the word "finish", but hey... are you mad bro?

no

I'm in a rather great mood, as I don't work tomorrow! he

But if it bothers you that I rather easily and brilliantly overpowered you, and that this battle of wills and wits finished in a way that you don't like, perhaps it will encourage you to bring your A-game. I'm the one 'Merican you Canadian bastards don't want to fvck with. 13

I mean, for a guy who so clearly enjoys ***-for-tat, mockery, and sarcasm, this should be right up your alley. Or can you not handle being on the receiving end? mmm

Oh, and because I'm a responsible logician:

tl;dr


Oh, sorry. You're picky with every word used---that may come off as a different acronym that Sidious can't overpowe--I mean finish.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
tl;dr


Oh, sorry. You're picky with every word used---that may come off as a different acronym that Sidious can't overpowe--I mean finish.

You're not nearly as fun when you're butthurt.

I promise to be gentler next time. innuendur

And I promise to call you afterward next time. I can't stand to see you tear up.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
And I promise to call you afterward next time. I can't stand to see you tear up.

The only thing that I tear up is your ass, son. sneer

Originally posted by Turr_Phennir
Correct.

Technically, he overpowered ten thousand.



Yeah sure he did honey. Thats why he wasn't able to overpower one Jedi (Yoda), whom he had already 'overpowered' by diminishing his ability to use the Force. I'm sure that is the exact definition of overpower.

Turr_Phennir
Correct.

Technically, he overpowered ten thousand.
facepalm

You would.

Originally posted by Nephthys
I don't recall Sidious ever overpowering a hundred Force users at once.

I'm fine if you want to argue this version though, as it would legitimately make Nihilus the most poweful thing in Star Wars save perhaps Abeloth.

No, because I just said that Sidious did the same... How does it legitimately make Nihilus the most powerful thing in Star Wars if Sidious did better? Like Gideon said, he overpowered a lot more. And I see you're holding it against him that he couldn't overpower Yoda, one of the most powerful Force users ever, that's just looking for a desperate escape. I can do that too, Nihilus could overpower an entire planet but couldn't even overpower ONE Jedi, the Exile.



Surviving doesn't make you powerful if you just hid all the time... Coleman Trebor actually went into war, unlike the Council members who just stayed on Dantooine during the war.





Sigh. For someone who always brags to know everything about KOTOR I'm surprised you do not have all your facts straight: This is what the Droid on Dantooine said about the attack on Dantooine: "Approximately five years ago, the Dark Jedi Malak and his Sith fleet assaulted Dantooine. The surprise of the initial orbital bombardments prevented any resistance from the surface. The attack destroyed much of the Jedi Enclave, leaving only the sublevel partially intact. The Sith attack also concentrated heavily on some obscure ruins to the south, but the reason for this is unknown."

Mhm, orbital bombing?



There wasn't a Council during KOTOR 2? They were literally the LAST Jedi. They didn't fight during KOTOR 1 and went in hiding afterwards, that's how they survived.



I never implied them to be weaklings, I implied that we don't know how powerful they are. Alright, let's call them average Jedi Masters then. I'm sure it is impressive, I've never argued that Kreia wasn't impressive though, I've argued the thought of Kreia being able to "kill every single Force user instantly in any situation" (except for the Exile).



Training him incorrectly? How exactly was he trained differently than any other student. Is that why he was pushed down the Dark Side, Because he wasn't helped by the Council? Phew, I thought it had something to do with that Sith Emperor.

Point stands, if everyone including Revan would have listened to the Council, then he wouldn't have gained such a following and he wouldn't have had a third of the entire fleet.



They gathered to find a way to stop them, but then they all got wiped out. Their plan was to stay hidden and seperated (to not avoid detection) until the enemy revealed themselves. How could they attack the Sith if they didn't know who, what or where they are?



So Council members during TOR are chosen for entirely different reasons than during KOTOR? Okay.



I decided to rescue him, so he didn't do it. Non-Canon.



8 maximum, non Force users. Don't overreact events please.



So it doesn't matter that they couldn't do it on their own? I'd say that takes a lot away from their ability if they can only do it with two others.




So you admit that they could also use the technique Kreia uses?



Lol to blaming it on PIS. I'd say that the Kreia- Jedi Masters scene is full of PIS too. Why did they pull out their lightsabers, why not do the same they did to the Jedi Exile, cut her off the Force, doesn't seem like the Exile could defend herself.

The douchebaggery and semantics in all the threads you jackasses squabble across in make me want to revoke your typing privileges.

Seriously, holy shit.

Shut up, Faunus.

Retire, Slash.

And fvck you.

Originally posted by Eminence
The douchebaggery and semantics in all the threads you jackasses squabble across in make me want to revoke your typing privileges.

Seriously, holy shit.

I can only hope my own douchebaggery is up to par.

Originally posted by Slash_KMC
No, because I just said that Sidious did the same... How does it legitimately make Nihilus the most powerful thing in Star Wars if Sidious did better? Like Gideon said, he overpowered a lot more. And I see you're holding it against him that he couldn't overpower Yoda, one of the most powerful Force users ever, that's just looking for a desperate escape. I can do that too, Nihilus could overpower an entire planet but couldn't even overpower ONE Jedi, the Exile.

And I'm telling you that he did not. The difference being that I'm actually right.

Gideon is wrong.

One of the most powerful Jedi ever? Yes. More powerful that a hundred Jedi combined? No.

Actually, he did overpower her.

Originally posted by Slash_KMC
Surviving doesn't make you powerful if you just hid all the time... Coleman Trebor actually went into war, unlike the Council members who just stayed on Dantooine during the war.

Only when they were training Revan. The war had been ongoing for years. I find it unlikely they were on Dantooine for all of it. Especially considering one is the Battlemaster of the Order.

Originally posted by Slash_KMC
Sigh. For someone who always brags to know everything about KOTOR I'm surprised you do not have all your facts straight: This is what the Droid on Dantooine said about the attack on Dantooine: "Approximately five years ago, the Dark Jedi Malak and his Sith fleet assaulted Dantooine. The surprise of the initial orbital bombardments prevented any resistance from the surface. The attack destroyed much of the Jedi Enclave, leaving only the sublevel partially intact. The Sith attack also concentrated heavily on some obscure ruins to the south, but the reason for this is unknown."

Mhm, orbital bombing?

Very well. Nice find. But I'll note that despite resistence being 'prevented' Vrook was still able to escape.

Originally posted by Slash_KMC
There wasn't a Council during KOTOR 2? They were literally the LAST Jedi. They didn't fight during KOTOR 1 and went in hiding afterwards, that's how they survived.

Irrelevent given your next statement.

Originally posted by Slash_KMC
I never implied them to be weaklings, I implied that we don't know how powerful they are. Alright, let's call them average Jedi Masters then. I'm sure it is impressive, I've never argued that Kreia wasn't impressive though, I've argued the thought of Kreia being able to "kill every single Force user instantly in any situation" (except for the Exile).

Oh, good. You see, thats all I wanted.

Originally posted by Slash_KMC
Training him incorrectly? How exactly was he trained differently than any other student. Is that why he was pushed down the Dark Side, Because he wasn't helped by the Council? Phew, I thought it had something to do with that Sith Emperor.

Point stands, if everyone including Revan would have listened to the Council, then he wouldn't have gained such a following and he wouldn't have had a third of the entire fleet.

If you talk to teh dude on Dantooine he points out how Revan was always a 'bad-egg'. Which they did nothing to correct. And I don't think its normal for a student to get punted between masters like a football.

If everyone had listened to the Council we'd be speaking in Mandalorian right now.

EPIC REFERENCE WIN!

Originally posted by Slash_KMC
They gathered to find a way to stop them, but then they all got wiped out. Their plan was to stay hidden and seperated (to not avoid detection) until the enemy revealed themselves. How could they attack the Sith if they didn't know who, what or where they are?

Maybe by actually looking? Their plan was awful and would have certainly of doomed the Jedi.'Wait and See' is what got them into the mess in the first place. And they refused to learn their lesson.

Originally posted by Slash_KMC
So Council members during TOR are chosen for entirely different reasons than during KOTOR? Okay.

As I said, irrelevent.

Originally posted by Slash_KMC
I decided to rescue him, so he didn't do it. Non-Canon.



Originally posted by Slash_KMC
8 maximum, non Force users. Don't overreact events please.

Still an impressive display of power and skill with the technique.

Originally posted by Slash_KMC
So it doesn't matter that they couldn't do it on their own? I'd say that takes a lot away from their ability if they can only do it with two others.

Well they obviously need to be able to use the technique to be able to use it togther, so I'm pretty damn sure they can use it. But if you must know, the Wall of Light can usually only be used by multiple people anyway, so no, it doesn't take away anything.

Originally posted by Slash_KMC
So you admit that they could also use the technique Kreia uses?

Wtf? No. Of course they can't. They probably know about Force Lightning as well, it doesn't mean they can chuck it around willynilly.

Originally posted by Slash_KMC
Lol to blaming it on PIS. I'd say that the Kreia- Jedi Masters scene is full of PIS too. Why did they pull out their lightsabers, why not do the same they did to the Jedi Exile, cut her off the Force, doesn't seem like the Exile could defend herself.

They did not cut the Exile off from the Force, obviously, because the game still goes on.

For lightsabers, what Jedi does not draw their lightsabers in battle?

I think its obvious why they didn't attack.

http://lparchive.org/Knights-of-the-Old-Republic-II/Update%2047/img-111.JPG

http://lparchive.org/Knights-of-the-Old-Republic-II/Update%2047/img-12.gif: It is because they were afraid.

Somebody at the end needs to tell me what the hell is being argued and what was decided at the end.

Whether Kreia can defeat Starkiller. We decided that she can.

Because of the insta-drain I see?

Huh, I mean, if that's the case, wouldn't Kreia be able to beat anyone?

IDK, I'll just throw out some random food for thought:

Malak knew Force Drain. He used it against the Jedi on the Star Forge. I'm sure if he knew it was unstoppable, he would have tried it on Revan as well....and Revan survived in the end.

I'm just saying. I feel if somebody is powerful enough, they would dodge or overcome the Force Drain.

But I didn't read any of the arguments, so I wouldn't know a thing

Indeed. Kreia's Force drain is different from the common variety Malak used. It seems to be a combination of Force drain, sever and bond. And there is seemingly no defence.

In an objective battle, does Kreia have the ability to show others the Force "though the eyes of the Exile"?

Seems a bit of a cheap trick, don't you think?

It is very cheap, yes.

Which is why it is opposed out of obligation by people around here.

Thank goodness it's not easy to "learn".

And I did.

And I'm not ashamed to admit that there was a not small amount of sexual gratification in the act, as well.



Certainly the evidence indicates as much.



How about a magic trick?



Ta-daa! Your point's gone! sneer

It's easy to twist circumstances into a way that gives us a favorable position in a discussion. Just like Nihilus is powerful enough to decimate a colony of Jedi Knights on Katarr and yet succumb to the skills of the Exile and co., does the Exile's defeat of him undermine it?

13





I'm not sure where the discrepancy is. Palpatine certainly subdued, overwhelmed, and overpowered ten thousand Jedi. That he did not do so physically does not, in any way, make the verb inappropriate for the purposes of this discussion.

Originally posted by Turr_Phennir
Certainly the evidence indicates as much.

Yes, we all know he diminished their perception of the Force. Maybe next time you can link to something actually worth a damn.

Originally posted by Turr_Phennir
How about a magic trick?



Ta-daa! Your point's gone! sneer

It's easy to twist circumstances into a way that gives us a favorable position in a discussion. Just like Nihilus is powerful enough to decimate a colony of Jedi Knights on Katarr and yet succumb to the skills of the Exile and co., does the Exile's defeat of him undermine it?

13

I feel bad even giving this point the dignity of a response. You know very well that Nihilus did overpower the Exile and that he was only defeated because of her unique circumstance which exponentially weakened him. No such circumstance existed in the Yoda fight, wherein they were extremely well match, which utterly shreds your opinion that Palpatine was previously able to 'overpower' not just Yoda, but 10,000 Jedi as well. So you can cram your magic trick up your ass.

Originally posted by Turr_Phennir
I'm not sure where the discrepancy is. Palpatine certainly subdued,

No.

Originally posted by Turr_Phennir
overwhelmed,

No!

Originally posted by Turr_Phennir
and overpowered ten thousand Jedi.

NO!

Could you possibly be a bigger Sidious fanboy? facepalm


Originally posted by Turr_Phennir
That he did not do so physically does not, in any way, make the verb inappropriate for the purposes of this discussion.

They were not subdued, they were not overpowered and they were not overwhelmed, in any shape or form.

I do. But I'm afraid it might not turn out that way if you insist on lies.

Lies are bad.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Whether Kreia can defeat Starkiller. We I decided that she can.

Fixed that for ya.

Originally posted by Nephthys
I do.

Me too. So let's keep the agitation in check, plz.

If there exists some sort of psychological condition whereupon you violently react whenever someone disagrees with you, I need to be notified immediately so that I don't waste my time or torment you via further clever mocking of The Dark Knight.

Originally posted by Nephthys
But I'm afraid it might not turn out that way if you insist on lies.

First, I find that funny, given your conduct here.

Second, simply because you disagree with it doesn't make it dishonest. The definition fits, the verb applies; Palpatine subdued Jedi perception. If you intend to argue that, then you'll need something beyond "NO!"

Otherwise, let's cut our losses here and apply our time and energies elsewhere.

Originally posted by ares834
Fixed that for ya.

That was a humorous comment intended humorously.

Originally posted by Turr_Phennir
Me too. So let's keep the agitation in check, plz.

If there exists some sort of psychological condition whereupon you violently react whenever someone disagrees with you, I need to be notified immediately so that I don't waste my time or torment you via further clever mocking of The Dark Knight.

k.

Originally posted by Turr_Phennir
First, I find that funny, given your conduct here.

Second, simply because you disagree with it doesn't make it dishonest. The definition fits, the verb applies; Palpatine subdued Jedi perception. If you intend to argue that, then you'll need something beyond "NO!"

Otherwise, let's cut our losses here and apply our time and energies elsewhere.

What dishonesty? If the Dark Reaper really did resemble Nihilus' Drain you would obviously have pointed that out. What, because I assumed that justifies you bounding away, tail betwixt your legs when I start beating you?

The definition does not fit in any way. He weakened their perception of the Force. Via unknown ways. That isn't overwhelming it, he's not overwhelming anything, they aren't actually fighting back. he's poisoning them, or making it harder for them to see. That isn't subduing them in any way. Its closing the blinds a bit.

And plus, he wasn't able to overwhelm Yoda, so your point is nonsensical.

Originally posted by Nephthys
k.

This pleases me. Moar than sex, even.

Originally posted by Nephthys
What dishonesty?

The link has the exact conversation, but you claimed that the Dark Reaper drain did not demonstrate Nihilus's and then you claimed not to know if this was true or not. Essentially, you not only claimed the above to be utterly factual, you were perturbed with me for not agreeing with your assumption.

Between this and the constant "noez!" I am becoming suspicious that you are, in fact, angry with anyone who doesn't share your exact view of the world. Say what you want about me, but I certainly don't expect you to agree with me simply because I say so, despite my enormous intellect and prodigious skills.

Originally posted by Nephthys
If the Dark Reaper really did resemble Nihilus' Drain you would obviously have pointed that out.

That is another dangerously faulty assumption. Are you certain there's no other possible reason? I can point out several.

Originally posted by Nephthys
What, because I assumed that justifies you bounding away, tail betwixt your legs when I start beating you?

Beating me................. haermm

Originally posted by Nephthys
The definition does not fit in any way. He weakened their perception of the Force. Via unknown ways. That isn't overwhelming it, he's not overwhelming anything, they aren't actually fighting back. he's poisoning them, or making it harded for them to see. Taht isn't subduing them in any way.

The definition does not indicate that certain methods must be used in order for the word to apply nor does it indicate that the victim must be fighting back. If it does, I would like to see a credible source.

Originally posted by Nephthys
And plus, he wasn't able to overwhelm Yoda, so your point is nonsensical.

First, I can assure you that I can find many sources that say otherwise.

Second, what does the duel with Yoda have to do with it? Read the definitions again: The second one uses an example of odor; does a stench literally beat the hell out of someone in a fight? No, yet the dictionary is content to use it as a credible application of the verb.

Third, this is why I said technically in the original statement. No one and I do mean no one covers their ass quite like me.

I got skillz bruh

Originally posted by Turr_Phennir
The link has the exact conversation, but you claimed that the Dark Reaper drain did not demonstrate Nihilus's and then you claimed not to know if this was true or not. Essentially, you not only claimed the above to be utterly factual, you were perturbed with me for not agreeing with your assumption.

Whatever.

Show the damn thing already.

Originally posted by Turr_Phennir
Between this and the constant "noez!" I am becoming suspicious that you are, in fact, angry with anyone who doesn't share your exact view of the world. Say what you want about me, but I certainly don't expect you to agree with me simply because I say so, despite my enormous intellect and prodigious skills.

k.

Originally posted by Turr_Phennir
That is another dangerously faulty assumption. Are you certain there's no other possible reason? I can point out several.

Well then show the thing and we can see how faulty my assumption was.

Originally posted by Turr_Phennir
Beating me................. haermm

Of course. I am after all, infallible.

Originally posted by Turr_Phennir
The definition does not indicate that certain methods must be used in order for the word to apply nor does it indicate that the victim must be fighting back. If it does, I would like to see a credible source.

We've already had this argument and you lost.

Either way it is not the same because he did not do it against battleready opponents in an actual fight. Nor do we know how he does it, so its pointless to even bring it up.

Originally posted by Turr_Phennir
First, I can assure you that I can find many sources that say otherwise.

I somehow doubt you can do so to explain how Sidious could barely overwhelm Yoda one mement and yet 'overwhelm' both Yoda and TEN THOUSAND! (EMPHASIS!) previously.

Originally posted by Turr_Phennir
Second, what does the duel with Yoda have to do with it? Read the definitions again: The second one uses an example of odor; does a stench literally beat the hell out of someone in a fight? No, yet the dictionary is content to use it as a credible application of the verb.

Third, this is why I said technically in the original statement. No one and I do mean no one covers their ass quite like me.

I got skillz bruh

Oh gee, more arguments over semantics. Who the hell cares.

Whatever you need to sleep at night. Just as long as you acknowledge that we're talking about completely different things.

And that he didn't overpower them at all.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Whatever.

13

Originally posted by Nephthys
Show the damn thing already.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Well then show the thing and we can see how faulty my assumption was.

I'll get around to that segment of the argument.

Originally posted by Nephthys
We've already had this argument and you lost.

Refresh my memory, because this seems to be a slightly longer "no u."

Originally posted by Nephthys
Either way it is not the same because he did not do it against battleready opponents in an actual fight. Nor do we know how he does it, so its pointless to even bring it up.

I never said it was the same circumstances or methods, my sweet.

Originally posted by Nephthys
I somehow doubt you can do so to explain how Sidious could barely overwhelm Yoda one mement and yet 'overwhelm' both Yoda and TEN THOUSAND! (EMPHASIS!) previously.

Me
I never said it was the same circumstances or methods, my sweet.

You assumed I meant that he overpowered ten thousand of them in a fight or in a manner relating to a fight.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Oh gee, more arguments over semantics. Who the hell cares.

It is your job as a debater to properly articulate your case. Being angry because I took advantage of your error does not make you less wrong. So much for infallible. I honestly don't know why this agitates you so.

Originally posted by Nephthys
And that he didn't overpower them at all.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Second, simply because you disagree with it doesn't make it dishonest. The definition fits, the verb applies; Palpatine subdued Jedi perception. If you intend to argue that, then you'll need something beyond "NO!"



If you're not willing to, let me know so more of our time isn't wasted.

Maybe this is why I always get angry when talking to you, because all our conversations devolve into bullshit dickwaving.

Urg, hang on.

Take your time, I'm heading out for a swim.

Originally posted by Turr_Phennir
I'll get around to that segment of the argument.

Wait, we're actually arguing? I thought we were just bickering again.

Originally posted by Turr_Phennir
Refresh my memory, because this seems to be a slightly longer "no u."

Whether Obi-Wan cutting off Anakins legs in mid-air counted as 'overpowering' him.

Originally posted by Turr_Phennir
I never said it was the same circumstances or methods, my sweet.

Then why are we even talking?

Originally posted by Turr_Phennir
You assumed I meant that he overpowered ten thousand of them in a fight or in a manner relating to a fight.

You're not?

/conversation.

I always deliver the goods promptly.

Originally posted by Nephthys
I always deliver the goods promptly.

I love you so much.

Fvcking pool is closed. >:/

Originally posted by Nephthys
Wait, we're actually arguing? I thought we were just bickering again.

?
I'm referring to the Dark Reaper argument, which happened elsewhere, a few days ago.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Whether Obi-Wan cutting off Anakins legs in mid-air counted as 'overpowering' him.

Ah, yes. But I don't remember why; do you have the link?

Originally posted by Nephthys
Then why are we even talking?

Because I enjoy your company.

Originally posted by Nephthys
You're not?

Well, no, of course not.

OMG, the Dark Reapers attacks are pink. http://images.killermovies.com/forums/customsmilies/haermm.gif

Originally posted by Turr_Phennir
Fvcking pool is closed. >:/

Quick, make veiled quips about the Joker to them! That solves everything!

Originally posted by Turr_Phennir
?
I'm referring to the Dark Reaper argument, which happened elsewhere, a few days ago.

Ah. Maybe if you just point me towards it I could find it.

Found it:

WRKQ73IhmfE&feature=channel_video_title

Its paaaank! /nostalgia chick

I really hope they aren't the same attack because Nihilus using pink clouds to kill everyone would just be too much. haermm

Originally posted by Turr_Phennir
Ah, yes. But I don't remember why; do you have the link?

Because you decided that hitting a guy when he's defenceless didn't count as 'overpowering' him. No, and I can't eevn remember what thread it was in so I'm not looking.

Originally posted by Turr_Phennir
Because I enjoy your company.

Really?

I'm gonna be honest, I've been kind of a dick these last few weeks.

which is apologise for

Originally posted by Turr_Phennir
Well, no, of course not.


Gooooooooooooooood.

Originally posted by Turr_Phennir
Fvcking pool is closed. >:/

Kinda feel your plight. I just went to play tennis. Got onto the court and it started raining 2 minutes later out of nowhere. Fvck MI weather >.<

Tennis? Pool? Jesus, whats the time over there?

What time zone do you live in?

I'm in Eastern. I left my house in the evening.

The tennis courts have floodlights.

Its 2 in the morning where I live. British Summer Time.

So you're a Brit born and raised?

Yes. I'm even drinking tea right now.

Your country badly beat my homeland in cricket this last month lol.

His country beat mine in Rioting, recently.