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Thanos, as in Thanos Imperative, but without that not dying nonsense

Krona as he appeared in War of the Green Lanterns.

Fight in Oa.

Krona.

Sorry Quan.

Krona, with ease.

Let me see..
Would Hal have been able to shoot right through Thanos?
hmm.....

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
Let me see..
Would Hal have been able to shoot right through Thanos?
hmm..... yeah that didn't make much sense to me giving Hal a plot cannon like that. I mean what's stopping him from marching up to say.... mordru and delivering the same blast to ko his ass.

Krona as well.

The context behind Hal's "Krona Killer" makes me think that it wouldn't be as effective if Krona had been replaced by Thanos or whatever elite villain you could think of.

His willpower apparently superseded Krona's control of Ion (and the other entities) as well as bypass the ring's safeguard against injuring/slaying Guardians. I personally don't think the blast itself was so much powerful as its properties were capable to blast through those specific defenses. It's a great feat for Hal, still.

The only thing Hal did was use so much willpower, that he overrode the 'no-killing Guardians policy'.

Krona wasn't any weaker, and neither was his control of the entities neutralized.

Pulling things out of your ass is not the way to counter feats.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
His willpower apparently superseded Krona's control of Ion I don't think that played too much of a factor. After all, Kyle, John, Guy, Kilowog, Sinestro, and a host of other GL's, had no problems using their rings during that very same issue.

Like you went on to say: Hal's feat was unique/uber because his willpower became sufficient to override the safeguards placed on the rings by the Guardians themselves- subsequently allowing him to kill Krona. If he hit Thanos with a blast of the same force, he certainly wouldn't shrug it off.

Originally posted by Galan007
I don't think that played too much of a factor. After all, Kyle, John, Guy, Kilowog, Sinestro, and a host of other GL's, had no problems using their rings during that very same issue.

Like you went on to say: Hal's feat was uber because his willpower was sufficient to override the safeguards placed on the rings by the Guardians themselves- subsequently allowing him to kill Krona. If he hit Thanos with a blast of the same force, he certainly wouldn't shrug it off.

Right, his willpower overrided a specific defense that Krona and other Guardians had. Against characters who don't have that safeguard to be "overcome" by default, I think the feat, while still highly impressive, shouldn't translate into the exact same outcome. I agree that such a blast would harm Thanos, though.

Basically, to me, the blast was less "OMG it's so powerful" and more "Holy shit, he shot through the shield".

^ It was powerful, make no mistake.

Originally posted by Galan007
^ It was powerful, make no mistake.

Of course it was powerful, but personally, I don't think the blast's power was what made the blast as a whole uber.

That's your opinion and you are entitled to it.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
I didn't say Krona was weaker. I was saying that Hal's willpower cutting through his defenses (the Ion entity and the whole ring's inability to kill Guardians) shouldn't translate into Hal can one shot kill or maim other uber characters when you look at the context. You don't seem to understand that there was no context to excuse this. The only added bit is the fact that Hal's will overrode the 'no-killing a guardian policy' that was imposed on his capabilities. Krona was still as powerful.

And that makes the feat even more impressive.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Basically, to me, the blast was less "OMG it's so powerful" and more "Holy shit, he shot through the shield". Before I elaborate on how ridiculously dumb this is, I'll ask you just to make sure - are you serious?

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Yes, Hal's blast cut through the defenses which would have normally prevented him from killing Krona. And yes, Krona was still powerful.

But Hal's will overriding his ring's "no killing a Guardian policy" is something that should be considering when dealing when comparing that specific instance to other characters not named Krona or are a Guardian of the Universe, which is the main point I'm trying to make. You have no point, because you have a fundamental mis-understanding of that entire scene.

The limitations had nothing to do with Krona. The no-killing policy had nothing to do with Krona's defenses or power. The sole problem was Hal's ring not allowing him to kill a Guardian. Which Hal overcame with a willpower, to deliver the killing blow.

http://i593.photobucket.com/albums/tt19/Max_Eisenhardt/halwillring.jpg

It's not much different than Superman not wanting to kill a sentient being, but with everything at stake knowing that he has to, so he overrides that imposed limitation (ie. the rings limitation) and kills him, which is still his own power/Hal's own willpower, and has nothing to do with Doomsday/Krona's defenses getting brought down.

In case anyone forgot, because - I don't know - you're not looking at one of the 3 billion pages that says this: GL rings are the most powerful weapons in the universe.

We've seen the rings do ridiculous things. We've haven't ever seen a hard limit on the rings though (other than running out of power), only on the willpower of the user. I have no problem believing that Johns wanked Jordan so hard his willpower shot up to unprecedented levels, making that Krona killer blast actually strong enough to bust through Krona's defenses.

And yeah, I think that blast would kill Thanos too.

/shrug

Why would it not kill Thanos? I don't get it, obviously the blast stays as powerful as it was, as long as Hal can replicate it. Even if it means it kills trans levelers, how do you justify downgrading the blast?

Originally posted by Bentley
Why would it not kill Thanos? I don't get it, obviously the blast stays as powerful as it was, as long as Hal can replicate it. Even if it means it kills trans levelers, how do you justify downgrading the blast? It can't be justified, Jake just has failed to properly understand the scene.

Originally posted by Bentley
Why would it not kill Thanos? I don't get it, obviously the blast stays as powerful as it was, as long as Hal can replicate it. Even if it means it kills trans levelers, how do you justify downgrading the blast? I think Jake was trying to say that because Hal needed extra willpower to overcome the restriction on his ring, he wouldn't be able to readily duplicate his Krona-buster feat against another baddie like Thanos/DS/etc. There'd be no restriction for Hal to knowingly overcome, and thus no reason to exert additional willpower that would be required to create the blast that one-shotted Krona. At least that's how I read his point.

I don't agree with that assessment, but....yeah.

^Nah, that's not what he's saying at all.

Originally posted by Cogito
^Nah, that's not what he's saying at all. Then elucidate, my friend.

Jake made it pretty clear what he was saying already.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
His willpower apparently superseded Krona's control of Ion (and the other entities) as well as bypass the ring's safeguard against injuring/slaying Guardians. I personally don't think the blast itself was so much powerful as its properties were capable to blast through those specific defenses. It's a great feat for Hal, still.

The blast compromised Krona's defenses, it wasn't the strength of the blast that did him in. Basically anyone other than Hal is going to have a much harder time hurting Krona, according to Jake.

I agree with that last part, at least. That blast was uber.

What I'm saying essentially is that Hal overcame a limitation from his power ring which would have normally prevented him from killing Krona, a Guardian (and one who was seriously amped at that).

If Hal was paired against someone like Darkseid/Thanos/Mordru/The Serpent/Badguy of the Week, I don't think we should assume that Hal's "Krona Killer" shot is going to one shot kill or maim those characters when it was shown explicitly that Hal overcame a specific obstacle inhibiting his ring.

And I really don't think my view downplays the blast at all.

Originally posted by Cogito
Jake made it pretty clear what he was saying already.



The blast compromised Krona's defenses, it wasn't the strength of the blast that did him in. Basically anyone other than Hal is going to have a much harder time hurting Krona, according to Jake.

I agree with that last part, at least. That blast was uber.

Basically. The strength of that blast was immense (and I've never disputed that the blast wasn't powerful), but I don't think it was the sheer power of the blast which was the deciding factor, but Hal's will compromising those defenses which would have otherwise prevented Krona from being one-shot.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Basically. The strength of that blast was immense (and I've never disputed that the blast wasn't powerful), but I don't think it was the sheer power of the blast which was the deciding factor, but Hal's will compromising those defenses which would have otherwise prevented Krona from being one-shot. How could it not be the sheer power of the blast, when that was the only thing directed at Krona, and the only limitations that Hal overcame were his own ring's, which had nothing to do with Krona's defenses or his capability to deal with that blast?

You're not making any sense here.

Ok, then what I don't get is how breaking a defense who is supposed to limit Hal is going to make his blast less effective. Or are you saying that Krona was not defending himself correctly because he was trusting that safeguard was enough? Or that such safeguard was at least an important part of his defense?

Hal's blast wouldnt have killed Thanos.

As for the fight Krona wins, but Thanos makes im work for it.

Originally posted by Cogito
Krona had control of Ion. Ion is an abstract - the embodiment of willpower in the universe. Jordan's willpower was so great that it temporarily compromised Ion which, in turn, compromised Krona. Where does it say that Hal's will compromised Ion?

Originally posted by Bentley
Ok, then what I don't get is how breaking a defense who is supposed to limit Hal is going to make his blast less effective. Or are you saying that Krona was not defending himself correctly because he was trusting that safeguard was enough? Or that such safeguard was at least an important part of his defense? Krona wasn't even around when the Guardians forged the rings- thus he wasn't likely to have known the limitations they'd placed on them.

Anyway, this is how is see it: Hal willed a blast so powerful/concentrated that it overrode the safeguard and killed Krona. Easy-peasy.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Hal's willpower overrode the security protocols of his ring, which enabled him to use lethal force on Krona.

Obviously the blast had to be powerful to injure, much less kill Krona, but if Hal didn't override those protocols, the blast wouldn't have finished Krona off. Which is what I'm saying. That doesn't demean the firepower of the blast at all. Hal's willpower overrode his own ring's limitations, and he managed to produce a blast powerful enough to kill Krona.

Why would this same blast not be as potent against somebody like Thanos, when its effectiveness had nothing to do with Krona's defenses or power being weakened, just with the amount of willpower Hal summoned?

Originally posted by Nihilist
Hal's blast wouldnt have killed Thanos.

As for the fight Krona wins, but Thanos makes im work for it.


Well, maybe not killed, I admit that Thanos's durability is very high, but it would certainly be hurtful and I see Hal killing/incapacitating the likes of Surfer with that. Thanos was maybe pushing it too far...

Originally posted by Cogito
Nowhere. It's a possible conclusion you could reach on your own. Not with any kind of rational arguments, you cannot.

Originally posted by Bentley
Well, maybe not killed, I admit that Thanos's durability is very high, but it would certainly be hurtful and I see Hal killing/incapacitating the likes of Surfer with that. Thanos was maybe pushing it too far... A blast from a cosmic cube only just ko'd Thanos and that was a weak Thanos from being reborn too early.

Originally posted by Cogito
There's some rationale behind it.


It sounds a bit too much like a forum myth in the making if you ask me...

http://i578.photobucket.com/albums/ss225/OdinBorson/KronaandIon.jpg

http://i578.photobucket.com/albums/ss225/OdinBorson/KronaandIon1.jpg

I think it's pretty clear that Hal had enough willpower to temporarily overcome/surpass Krona's grip of Ion which enables him to "control willpower". Especially considering how Krona had before then dismantled his constructs and treated him like a feeb.

Crikey. Hal overrode the safeguards of his ring. That's it.

Tampering with the Ion entity to produce the same effect was not mentioned, or even alluded to.

Originally posted by Galan007
Crikey. Hal overrode the safeguards of his ring. That's it.

Tampering with the Ion entity to produce the same effect was not mentioned, or even alluded to. Hal shouldn't be that impressive, damn it. Stop, Galan!

Either way, I don't really understand how showing that since Krona had Ion to control the specific type of energy Hal directed at him, plus all of the other entities and the Guardian power and still was killed by Hal proves that Hal's blast was less potent? In the way that I don't understand how in a fight against somebody who he doesn't have to also surpass the ring's 'no-kill' limitation he'd have a less potent blast than against someone he had to?

Anyway, the excuses are frankly ridiculous. They don't want to say that Thanos wins, so in order not to demean him by losing to Krona, who was beaten by Hal, the go to demean Hal, when the feat was quite clear-cut.

Quite sad.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
And who's "they" that doesn't want to say Thanos wins? And who's demeaning Hal out of some kind of Thanos related agenda?

I don't see Quan here.

Srsly. Even Thanos' second biggest fan here said Krona wins.

Originally posted by Cogito
Srsly. Even Thanos' second biggest fan here said Krona wins.


Kurpt and Quan are top two. Did Kurpt stop by?

Originally posted by Cogito
Srsly. Even Thanos' second biggest fan here said Krona wins. Who's the second biggest fan

Originally posted by Nihilist
Who's the second biggest fan

I assume he means you, but he's got you confused with Kurpt.

Alright, third biggest. Who's counting?

Well, for one thing Nihil is actually reasonable

Originally posted by Bentley
I assume he means you, but he's got you confused with Kurpt. ive forgotten more about Thanos than what Kurrupt and Quan know.

Id put Bran as the most knoweldgable/no 1 Thanos fan

Originally posted by Bentley
Well, for one thing Nihil is actually reasonable

True, which is why I guess he can't be #1 or #2

Originally posted by Nihilist
ive forgotten more about Thanos than what Kurrupt and Quan know.

Id put Bran as the most knoweldgable/no 1 Thanos fan Shit. Shots fired.

Either way, we all pretty much agree that Krona wins this and that Hal's feat is a top level one. No one's taking or trying to take away from that. Personally, I feel the context involved in that feat makes it so you really can't just replace Krona with any other random elite level Trans/Skyfather bad guy and expect Hal's willpower to surge forth and just one shot kill him...which I guess is tantamount to saying the blast sucked (even though I never claimed that it did and said the opposite more than once). I guess that's me "downplaying" Hal Jordan to serve the "Thanos Agenda".

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
As far as Thanos goes, considering his immortality gimmick, I don't think Hal would outright slay him. But he's not tanking that shit. It's good to see you've left your whole argument, once you saw it falling down, screaming in flames. Because at first you weren't outright saying that anything related to Thanos is what would prevent the blast from killing him, but the context in which the blast took place means it wouldn't be the same against Thanos (which it would, the only thing that arguably differs is how Thanos takes it).

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
The context behind Hal's "Krona Killer" makes me think that it wouldn't be as effective if Krona had been replaced by Thanos or whatever elite villain you could think of.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
I personally don't think the blast itself was so much powerful as its properties were capable to blast through those specific defenses. It's a great feat for Hal, still.

Anyway, I'm bored of laughing at your stealth attempts at vaguely attacking this feat.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Personally, I feel the context involved in that feat makes it so you really can't just replace Krona with any other random elite level Trans/Skyfather bad guy and expect Hal's willpower to surge forth and just one shot kill him...which I guess is tantamount to saying the blast sucked (even though I Are you now saying that Hal is now incapable of summoning the same amount of willpower? Can you stick with one argument, or are you throwing shit at the wall, hoping some of it will get hard and stick?

Originally posted by Cogito
acknowledges the raw power in Hal's blast. He doesn't. Basically he says "yeah, it's powerful" but at the same time, he's saying that it's shit because it wouldn't work against anybody else because "context!!".

Originally posted by Cogito
Srsly. Even Thanos' second biggest fan here said Krona wins. Because only fanboys that are also idiots would say that he doesn't. That has nothing to do with it.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Lol.

Shut up, Phil. It's not my fauly you're bad at this.

Originally posted by Cogito
You do realize that nothing there contradicts what I've said?

"It's great against Krona, but it's shit against other because of context."

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
The context behind Hal's "Krona Killer" makes me think that it wouldn't be as effective if Krona had been replaced by Thanos or whatever elite villain you could think of.

--

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
All this...for Thanos? Lol, wtf. If you'd admit it would kill Thanos, then that would get you in trouble with all of your other favorite characters.

Snap.

"Wouldn't be as effective" =/= "it's shit because it wouldn't work against anybody else"

He hasn't been able to prove it wouldn't be as effective

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
If you want to replace Krona with x character and expect the same result every time, that's your prerogative, however wrong it may be. I'm of the opinion you have to take into account those characters abilities/defenses/feats into account That wasn't your argument, and don't try to bullshit your way into it. It had nothing to do with the opponent's durability or defenses, and I repeat what you've just said:

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
The context behind Hal's "Krona Killer" makes me think that it wouldn't be as effective if Krona had been replaced by Thanos or whatever elite villain you could think of.

'whatever elite villain you could think of'.

Your problem was an imaginary 'context' that everybody seems to be leaving out, and that this blast wouldn't really be good against everybody else without that context.

I believe I've said it before, but this doesn't fly with me, so don't even try it.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Phil, for the sake of whatever is left of your credibility, I'd stop right about now.

Though, a very morbid part of me is interested to see where your conspiracy theory leads you. mmm I'll make it short, then. Would that blast kill Thor or Surfer?

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-mGDaXIr7A2U/Ti7sA7d5V8I/AAAAAAAAHBY/LFKeLtutA9k/s1600/shit_fan.jpg

There is a thread outside waiting for your answers

Originally posted by Parmaniac
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-mGDaXIr7A2U/Ti7sA7d5V8I/AAAAAAAAHBY/LFKeLtutA9k/s1600/shit_fan.jpg Well, Jake has been pretty busy for coming up with shit, so I guess it's only fitting it goes knees deep.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
I know what I said and so does the rest of the board Is that why people were actively engaging in a discussion on page 2, because they couldn't understand your twisting stance? The "appeal to majority" made me laugh, though.

"lol, again"

But please, go right ahead. I'm willing to listen, as I've been from the start, if only you'd make a coherent argument.

Elaborate your stance.

Was it a redonkulous feat? Yes!! Was it a little PIS'sy? Yep..
No way is Highball going to go around melting trans-leveler's faces off... Can that shot kill a Thanos? Probably. Then again he's tanked shots from a pissed off Odin that thought his people were in danger. In the end, a feat is a feat. This particular one is along the lines of a great hero rising above his station and producing a feat that no way in hell he would normally do. (ie. Thor shattering a celestial's shell, Nova shielding against Sphinx w/2 KA stones, etc. etc.)

As for the fight, Thanos wins because Krona with all entities lost to a high herald and Thanos wtfpwned a seriously amped trans leveler. (notice I'm going by most recent showing)

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
But as of now, I'm pretty sure people know what I mean, whether they agree with or not. Even you don't know what you mean, since you tried to bring every crap you could think of, from an imaginary context, to Ion playing a part in it, Hal overriding Krona's defenses, to "actually I was talking about other characters durability!". It's a reaching so transparent, that I just have to sit back and watch as you fall down and break your face.

I asked you to elaborate your stance, you ignored it and started going on "Puhlease Phil, tell me about the conspiracy of me -- hear that ME -- being biased and having an ulterior motive to downplay Hal?! I'd looove to hear it!".

You saw that being vague wasn't enough to stop anybody from attacking your stealth-downplaying, so now you resort to "THE FORUM KNOWS AND UNDERSTANDS ME!!" crap?

Funnily enough, it reminds me of this passive-agressive ***** trying to act all high and mighty:

3lXUd7VxuSA

Enjoy the video.

This discussion is useless. I'll stop here.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
hypocritical transparent bullshit I thought we were talking about me?

I told you before, I don't give a sh*t how passive you are in your stealth-downplaying, how you're trying to change your stances in what passes for subtletly in caveman times, how you go the higher-than-thou attitude and go "I have the mob on my side! Everybody else understands me! Hoorah!" appeal to majority. You are unable to back your arguments. You are wrong. You have a shifting stance, trying to choose the one that makes you look the least worst, maybe even good for there surely must be someone who buys into it! You try to pass for some unbiased monk, as if somebody questions ulterior motives in not wanting Hal to one-shot Thanos you go all "lol, shut up, me ulterior motives!?".

Hypocritical. I don't think you know what that word means. If you're reffering to me asking you a question, you ignoring it and going off tangents on my "conspiracy theory" of your bias, and then criticizing me for not answering yours then yes, that does constitute hypocrisy. The other way.

Transparent bullshit? Jake, I'm not the one trying to come up with any kind of bullshit excuse from imaginary context. I'm not the one transparently shifting my stances from one post to another. I'm not the one sticking my hand up the horses ass and hoping the next batch of shit will smell better. I'm not the one returning the same insults "transparent bullshit!" because it sounds right, because I have nothing else even remotely intelligent to say.

And last, but not least...

http://cdn.styleforum.net/f/fd/fd6a026e_3678.u_2D00_mad.jpg

4:40 is the greatest.

Philosophia makes ad hominem and fails, utterly. Don't worry, I won't post again because I couldn't care less about fake comic book character fights.

Man, you just made me feel meaningless, I guess your ad hominem are way better than his

Originally posted by -Pr-

Originally posted by Eon Blue
Philosophia makes ad hominem and fails, utterly. Don't worry, I won't post again because I couldn't care less about fake comic book character fights.

Wtf?

Amazing.

Originally posted by Eon Blue
Philosophia makes ad hominem and fails, utterly. Don't worry, I won't post again because I couldn't care less about fake comic book character fights. quoted: the "Anola gay" style of trolling.

fly in undetected, troll, and then log out

LOL at the bickering.

Back to thread, Thanos wins 7/10.

Originally posted by zopzop
LOL at the bickering.

Back to thread, Thanos wins 7/10.


How?

Yeah, can't see Thanos being > Krona + rings from every aspect of the emotional spectrum.

Originally posted by Harbinger
Yeah, can't see Thanos being > Krona + rings from every aspect of the emotional spectrum.

+ entities

^ Good catch

Originally posted by Harbinger
Yeah, can't see Thanos being > Krona + rings from every aspect of the emotional spectrum.


Originally posted by Cogito
+ entities


and yet he got a big ass hole put through him by a herald...

With the most powerful weapon in the universe.

Hal killed Krona with Batman Wolverine?

Zing!



Edit: eww at Wolverine

Originally posted by Cogito
With the most powerful weapon in the DC universe.

Fixed. Only because I know you wouldn't say its the most powerful weapon in comicdom. Right?

Originally posted by dmills
Fixed. Only because I know you wouldn't say its the most powerful weapon in comicdom. Right?

DCU was implied. Thought people would understand concepts like "context"

Originally posted by Cogito
DCU was implied. Thought people would understand concepts like "context"

No. This is KMC. Assume nothing

As I mentioned before High Heralds are people who have feats that are stupid and if they always worked on that level would utterly destroy second stringers such as Captain Atom, Blue Marvel or Gladiator. Hal has been a legitimate high-herald for most of his history, his showing isn't unlike Thor god-blasting Exitar, Surfer busting Tenebrous and Aegis or Superman's random end of arc battle.

Thanos wins.

No kidding Quan.

Originally posted by Bentley
No kidding Quan. I'm glad you agree.

Originally posted by Bentley
No kidding Quan.

You didn't even have to read it.

Just like Quan doesn't read Green Lantern comics

Krona was killed by Hal. Show me an Herlad (except Drax who was Thanos Kryptonite) that killed or koed him...

Krona from Trinity stomps, the same is true for Krona from JLA/Avengers. Krona from the GL Wars however... wins too. vin