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Which family line wins? This is redeemed Revan right after KOTOR, not nerfed, pussified Revan but when he was still epic. Bastila after KOTOR and Satele at the beginning of TOR. They are up against Zonakin and DE Luke. Who wins?

Skywalkers walk over them.

We still have to wait for Revan...

This would be a good fight, but the Skywalkers prevail.

DE Luke would defeat Satele and Bastila and assist Zonakin in taking down Prodigal Knight.

Not even fair, Skywalkers would win by doing some weird "godlike" ability and win.

Originally posted by GenomeFrozener
Not even fair, Skywalkers would win by doing some weird "godlike" ability and win.

Sorry but I own't accept something "godlike" unless that godlike thing is specified...

If Bastila sits out using her extremely good battle meditation then its a powered up Satele and Revan against Zonakin and Luke. It might even impact Zonakin more since his mental state is effed up and Anakin is absolutely pathetic with emotions and a peaceful state of mind... So in that case the Skywalkers still win but it's OMG EPIC STOMP.

Some sources have certain Jedi using battle meditation in combat and if we use that then the Shans and Revan win a difficult battle.

Originally posted by Toshi
Some sources have certain Jedi using battle meditation in combat and if we use that then the Shans and Revan win a difficult battle.

Good thing Bastilla has never been shown to do so then.

Both the Shans are a MASSIVE weak link to Revan here regardless. Other than her battle meditation, I doubt Bastila has any real good feats to back herself up.

Advent would disagree with you there. Shes been somewhat successfully argued against Obi-Wan.



All she has to do is sit down and concentrate.

Originally posted by Nephthys
All she has to do is sit down and concentrate.

Originally posted by Toshi
Some sources have certain Jedi using battle meditation in combat and if we use that then the Shans and Revan win a difficult battle.

He's talking about her using BM while fighting at the same time.

I am positive the Skywalkers would sense a power boost and draw the obvious conclusion that the Jedi sitting in the corner is the cause. One Electric Judgement should interrupt the BM.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Advent would disagree with you there. Shes been somewhat successfully argued against Obi-Wan.



All she has to do is sit down and concentrate.

If by this, you mean Advent got mad and left because she was wrong about everything, then... yes. yes indeed.

truejedi
If by this, you mean Advent got mad and left because she was wrong about everything, then... yes. yes indeed.

Originally posted by Korto Vos
I am positive the Skywalkers would sense a power boost and draw the obvious conclusion that the Jedi sitting in the corner is the cause. One Electric Judgement should interrupt the BM.

Luke possibly, and I refuse to believe that Anakin isn't anything but a dumbass. Even while Zonakin.

Originally posted by Toshi
Luke possibly, and I refuse to believe that Anakin isn't anything but a dumbass. Even while Zonakin.

Anakin might be a dumbass around Palpatine, but he is a seasoned warrior.

Both Skywalkers won't allow Bastila to sit in a corner and do BM.

Revan and Satele will try and make it hard for them to interrupt.

Btw, having not played TOR, only read the comics, is this young Satele like when she fought Malgus the first time, Grand Master Satelele...?

Originally posted by truejedi
If by this, you mean Advent got mad and left because she was wrong about everything, then... yes. yes indeed.

I thought you guys ganged up on her and she just stopped replying.

Originally posted by Toshi
Which family line wins? This is redeemed Revan right after KOTOR, not nerfed, pussified Revan but when he was still epic. Bastila after KOTOR and Satele at the beginning of TOR. They are up against Zonakin and DE Luke. Who wins?

I've underlined your problem. "Zonakin" is Anakin at the exact moment he's tapping his fullest potential, which argues like this:

- Anakin has best potential evah, because of GL quote ballooned into blanket statement.

- Anakin in teh zon3 is tapping this potential, which we already assumed was infinite etc., and thus cannot be beaten conclusively.

- Only true evidence of this is Anakin tapping his potential briefly and defeating Dooku, who was technically head and shoulders above Anakin at this point.

- Thus, we are assuming two things when we argue Zonakin: that he is consistently uber and unbeatable because his potential is absolutely better than everyone elses (even though canonically we can only compare him to PT Jedi, not Sith or pre-PT characters at all), and Zonakin is somehow verifiable in fighting maneuvers beyond the 20 seconds we see of him swinging at Dooku.

Consider that Zonakin doesn't throw one offensive Force power.

Anakin and Luke stomp them into next week.

Originally posted by GenomeFrozener
Both the Shans are a MASSIVE weak link to Revan here regardless. Other than her battle meditation, I doubt Bastila has any real good feats to back herself up.
You serious?

I wouldn't consider Satele a weak link. For what we have seen of her in the videos, she is no pushover and is very strong in the Force.

She can handle DE Luke alone. And before someone comes up with the argument that DE Luke stood up to Palpatine, it is useless. DE Luke got assistance from some of his companions in his struggle against Palpatine and that counts a lot. He was no match for Palpatine in a fair contest by this point.

For this contest; I believe it can go either way. The side which makes smart judgements will gain advantage and win.

In Star Wars, powers are not everything as I have come to know by reading many sources. Tactics and decisions can make a lot of difference.

Palpatine regardless of his great power, lost in the end. Same can be said about Nihilus and so on....

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
She can handle DE Luke alone.

Originally posted by ares834

What is so funny about this?

Let us list down some capabilities of Satele as demonstrated in the videos:

1. She can block a Lightsaber strike with bare hands and attempt to disable it with the Force.
2. She is capable of taking on several foes simultaneously.
3. She is very strong in the Force and can perform impressive feats with the Force; (a) she knocked down a large Tree; (b) she send a powerful Sith Lord packing with her Force Wave. The intensity of her attack shattered rocks behind the Sith Lord.

She certainly would have more feats to her name.

By all means, she is not a pushover and a weakling in comparison to other powerful individuals in Star Wars mythos.

This comes from her official profile:

"Renowned for her wisdom and powerful connection to the Force, Master Satele Shan is the voice and conscience of the Jedi Order."

&

"Master Satele is a veteran warrior who has repeatedly confronted the power of the dark side and survived."

She is going to be a big name in Star Wars.

And yet she has done nothing to show that she could keep up with Luke Skywalker in a lightsaber duel. Afterall, she was defeated by Malgus in their lightsaber duel despite the fact that Malgus had yet to get his insane increase in power. Even with the force she has yet to display the power of DE Skywalker who destroyed an At-At with a wave of his hand.

Originally posted by ares834
And yet she has done nothing to show that she could keep up with Luke Skywalker in a lightsaber duel.
Luke may have edge in this regard. However, even under vulnerable moments, Satele is far from helpless. Pay attention to what she does in Hope Video.

Originally posted by ares834
Afterall, she was defeated by Malgus in their lightsaber duel despite the fact that Malgus had yet to get his insane increase in power.
She owned him with the Force though. And her powers would also be increasing with passage of time, no?

Originally posted by ares834
Even with the force she has yet to display the power of DE Skywalker who destroyed an At-At with a wave of his hand.
That was indeed an impressive feat. However, no need to exaggerate it. Powerful Jedi can cripple large machines through the Force. And AT-AT is not very big.

So absolutely nothing that compares to Luke's skill with the lightsaber or power with the force. Yep, I really see how she will win this.

Originally posted by ares834
So absolutely nothing that compares to Luke's skill with the lightsaber or power with the force. Yep, I really see how she will win this.
Again, no need to exaggerate. Bringing down a 20 m long AT-AT is impressive for you?

However, knocking down a much taller Tree by tearing through its trunk, tearing apart a very large and heavy boulder of rock in to pieces, and owning a powerful Sith Lord with the Force, is nothing in comparison? Give me a break.

Also, I told you that Satele Shan can hold her own against very impressive duelists. She is capable of performing very impressive moves and acrobatics while dueling her adversaries.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Again, no need to exaggerate. Bringing down a 20 m long AT-AT is impressive for you?

It should be to anyone.



Yep. Destroing a tree does not compare at all to taking down an AT-AT. As for the boulder, I would advise you to learn about Force Absorb. Satele just absorbed a massive amount of energy. There is no evidence that she could preform a similar feat whenever she wants.



Who? Malgus? Lol. At this point in time he doesn't even compare to DE Palps and I'm a big Malgus fan.

DE Luke was also capable of exploding battle droids with the wave of his hands, and even knocked a giant size Vader statue over that crushed about three of Palpatine's dark jedi. Sedriss, who was powerful enough to use the force to draw an energy storm from Ossus' atmosphere, was easily knocked around by Skywalker.

Originally posted by ares834
It should be to anyone.
I stated that it is impressive. But nothing exceptional for a powerful Jedi.

Master Yoda lifted much larger machines with the Force. And he is one of the best combatants in Star Wars history.

Zayne Carrick levitated many miners from a disintegrating coment. And yet he sucked in combat.

Therefore, your point proves nothing.

Originally posted by ares834
Yep. Destroing a tree does not compare at all to taking down an AT-AT.
Not in terms of fighting capabilities. But in terms of mass, a large tree can be extremely heavy. Therefore, wreaking a fresh one purely with the Force is very impressive feat.

Originally posted by ares834 As for the boulder, I would advise you to learn about Force Absorb. Satele just absorbed a massive amount of energy. There is no evidence that she could preform a similar feat whenever she wants.
Force Absorb? You are clearly out of your mind. I will show you how.

Watch these images:-

Shan sends Malgus flying in to the larger boulder with a powerful Force Push:

http://i51.tinypic.com/2q8dq82.png

http://i56.tinypic.com/102scow.png

The intensity of the Force based attack prevents Malgus from escaping on his own.

Then, Shan amplifies her power and unleashes a very powerful blast of energy in the form of Force Wave:

http://i55.tinypic.com/2rc5pjb.png

http://i52.tinypic.com/66kh7o.png

The very large and heavy boulder gets blown to bits:

http://i51.tinypic.com/25gxwjn.png

Watch this video again: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YQf1nas8BO4

So who told you that she cannot perform this feat at her will? Don't come up with silly assertions of which you have no proof.

Originally posted by ares834 Who? Malgus? Lol. At this point in time he doesn't even compare to DE Palps and I'm a big Malgus fan.
Malgus is not a Lol.

And DE Luke also does not compares to DE Palpatine. He was clearly subdued by DE Palpatine in a fair contest.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
DE Luke was also capable of exploding battle droids with the wave of his hands, and even knocked a giant size Vader statue over that crushed about three of Palpatine's dark jedi. Sedriss, who was powerful enough to use the force to draw an energy storm from Ossus' atmosphere, was easily knocked around by Skywalker.
So?

Satele demonstrated similar capabilities:

"The Grand Master possessed prodigious Force powers. A gesture crushed hexes into balls or blew them apart from the inside."

Source: SWTOR - Fatal Alliance

Also, see above how she manhandles a powerful Sith Lord with the Force. And she is very much capable of knocking down large objects.

Honestly legend, do you have a girlfriend or ever got laid in your life? Honestly you have some weird issues and one of them is your extreme devotion to Revan or any Kotor characters.

Seriously, i have never seen such taboo devotion to fictional characters. You really need to see a psychologist man.

Originally posted by shinkoryu
Honestly legend, do you have a girlfriend or ever got laid in your life? Honestly you have some weird issues and one of them is your extreme devotion to Revan or any Kotor characters.

Seriously, i have never seen such taboo devotion to fictional characters. You really need to see a psychologist man. We've been telling him that for a long time. He's yet to explain his fanatical obsession with Revan and KotOR.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
We've been telling him that for a long time. He's yet to explain his fanatical obsession with Revan and KotOR. Creepy. I mean being a fanboy is one thing, but to have an obsession like this over a fictional character? Thats absurd.

Originally posted by shinkoryu
Honestly legend, do you have a girlfriend or ever got laid in your life? Honestly you have some weird issues and one of them is your extreme devotion to Revan or any Kotor characters.

Seriously, i have never seen such taboo devotion to fictional characters. You really need to see a psychologist man.
What is your problem?

I do have life apart from Star Wars. That is why I post so less now.

And what is the issue about debating on KOTOR characters?

There are far more PT and later era Star Wars fans here.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
We've been telling him that for a long time. He's yet to explain his fanatical obsession with Revan and KotOR.
You do not need to take things on personal level here. You will decide that what I should debate about here? 1 or 2 posts of mine per month anger you?

Stick to the topic. If you have something useful to contribute, then do so.

Originally posted by shinkoryu
Creepy. I mean being a fanboy is one thing, but to have an obsession like this over a fictional character? Thats absurd.
What obsession? I debate on these things lot less now. Check the history of posts in Star Wars sections and you will notice.

Keep your personal hatred out of this.

The sheer level of PT era and later Star Wars character workshipping in this forum is astounding and baffling.

I smoked the above two guys with correct knowledge. Why exaggerate the feats of PT era or later Star Wars characters so much, when there is no need?

Damn man! You guys just gang up on any fans of KOTOR based Star Wars works you encounter in debates. Mods should take notice of this.

Yeah, if we could cut the personal attacks that would be great. Particularly when he's actually bringing up good points. (He's right about trees being deceptively heavy)


Personally I can't recall much of what Lukes acheived by DE, but I do know that he has some impressive feats to his name such as the duel with Palpatine, the mentioned ownage of the AT-AT, speaking to people telepathically across the universe and dismantling and rebuilding Vaders castle (he's done that at this point right?).

Personally I don't know enough to call this one, but I'd say that Team 1's best bet would be Bastila's battle meditation and the remaining 4 duking it out.


Originally posted by ares834
Yep. Destroing a tree does not compare at all to taking down an AT-AT. As for the boulder, I would advise you to learn about Force Absorb. Satele just absorbed a massive amount of energy. There is no evidence that she could preform a similar feat whenever she wants

Originally posted by shinkoryu
Honestly legend, do you have a girlfriend or ever got laid in your life? Honestly you have some weird issues and one of them is your extreme devotion to Revan or any Kotor characters.

Seriously, i have never seen such taboo devotion to fictional characters. You really need to see a psychologist man.
Dude, what the hell? You have five posts. At the time of this post you had four. Three of those were in a thread about a Star Wars MMORPG that hasn't come out yet. Literally one hundred percent of your online persona at the time of your first (unprovoked) personal attack had included words like "Korriban," "Zabrak," and "continuity." When you start throwing around proper nouns of the deep EU like "Naga Sadow" you forfeit any right to feign a superior social life.

So we've established that your interests are as outside the mainstream as Legend's. Why on earth would you feel the need to call him names? If you're socking, you don't want the attention. If you're new, you don't know him. There is no possible excuse for posting this kind of poison.

That said, welcome to the boards. We're a pretty insular group, but if you can handle a low level of good natured joking around (you know, the kind that doesn't involve asking people about their sexual history that part was the creepiest part of this thread so far) then I expect you'll fit right in.


Originally posted by Lord Lucien
We've been telling him that for a long time. He's yet to explain his fanatical obsession with Revan and KotOR.
You know better than this. "Fanatical obsession" is one thing, but siding with a sock, or really any poster in a completely unprovoked attack, is completely wrong headed.

Legend: You've done a good job in the thread so far of making your case; the screenshot post is particularly effective. This is probably the most convincing I've seen you. Good work.

Neph: Thank you for not jumping on the bandwagon of personal attacks. Shit like that is not helpful or productive, especially when we just had six threads closed for being a bunch of whiny bitches.

To the unwashed masses: If I see more like this, I will message REXXXX so fast your head spins. He's still an active poster; he's in the RP section constantly. Even if the report button is broken, he isn't gone. Shape up.








On topic: I think that Zonakin is more powerful than he's being given credit for. He is a beast of a combatant, and I don't think anyone has given him due consideration.

My vote is very much in the air.

Once again I feel the need to nominate Zam for a Mod position.

Nicely done.

once again, i'd like to point out how random Zampano can be with his fits of responsibility and self-rightousness... : )

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
I stated that it is impressive. But nothing exceptional for a powerful Jedi.





Yes, and Yoda is likely the most powerful Jedi save Luke Skywalker himself... Plus according to some the cartoon itself is exagerated.



Which would have gravity far lower than that of a planet...





Name me one other time a Jedi Master destoyed such a massive tank with a wave of his hand.



Which is nothing compared to taking down an AT-AT which is a far more impressive feat.



She was absorbing his lightsaber numbnuts or at least attempting to.



She just used force absorb on a lightsaber... She can then expand all that energy in any way she wants. Do you not understand how force absorb works? Now proove to me she is capable of such a feat without the need to absorb



Malgus after this point in time was defeated by an unnotable Jedi Knight.



As was Satele subdued by Malgus... Regardless, Luke held his own against Palps and arguably beat him in a fair contest at the end.

Originally posted by truejedi
once again, i'd like to point out how random Zampano can be with his fits of responsibility and self-rightousness... : )

What can I say? I am a machine, and I can turn it on and off.




You've said this several times. Why, exactly, is the AT-AT so much more impressive?

Didn't he just trip it?

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y173/minohtar/comic.jpg

http://cdn.ifanboy.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/swdehcp3.jpg


Impressive to be sure, but hardly godlike in my opinion.

The two front legs appear to be warped at weird angles. So I would say no. Furthermore, the AT-AT's head is bent downard out of line with Luke suggesting that he is pressing down on it.

Edit: I'm not saying that it's the most impressive feat ever. For example, Luke's destruction and rebuilding of Vader's fortress that you mentioned is far more impressive, but it still is a great feat.

Well from what I can see he telekinetically made it fall over. Probably by forcing the legs apart and pushing the head like you said. Again, impressive, but not that great. Satale's Hadoken was better imo.


'The walker falls'. As the second image shows, it was the fall that destroyed it, not Luke.

A quote about the duel in Dark Empire.



Does anyone know what this is from? Hardly that impressive. Being faster than the eye can see is old hat for most high-level Jedi. A neophyte Bane was completely invisible.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Well from what I can see he telekinetically made it fall over. Probably by forcing the legs apart and pushing the head like you said. Again, impressive, but not that great. Satale's Hadoken was better imo.

I'd agree. But like I said she just got a massive power increase as she was just absorbing a lightsaber. Corran Horn, for example, isn't even able to use basic telekinesis. But once he absorbs some energy he can prefrom incredible telekinetic feats.



Somewhat true. As we see in ESB, AT-AT's are destroyed when they fall. So Luke was adding his force to the fall. Regardless, Luke was the one who made it fall which in turn destroyed it. So I would think it safe to say that Luke destroyed it.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Does anyone know what this is from? Hardly that impressive. Being faster than the eye can see if hold that for most high-level Jedi. A neophyte Bane was completely invisible.

Audiobook I think. And how is that not impressive? I can't think of single duel where such speed is prolonged across the enitre duel. And IIRC, Bane was "invisible" for nothing more than a single move and he was building up power for it. Meanwhile, Luke and Palps are fighting at these incredible speeds the entire duel.

Originally posted by ares834
I'd agree. But like I said she just got a massive power increase as she was just absorbing a lightsaber. Corran Horn, for example, isn't even able to use basic telekinesis. But once he absorbs some energy he can prefrom incredible telekinetic feats.



Somewhat true. As we see in ESB, AT-AT's are destroyed when they fall. So Luke was adding his force to the fall. Regardless, Luke was the one who made it fall which in turn destroyed it. So I would think it safe to say that Luke destroyed it.

She was absorbing it? It didn't look like she was doing that to me, considering there was actual strain being put on the blade, enough to crack it, which I doubt would be happening if she was simply absorbing the energy as opposed to merely blocking it.

'Adding his force to the fall?' He made it fall, I don't see any evidence that he was accelerating it though. But if you want to say he destroyed it go ahead, but the manner in which he did so wasn't that he just fired DBZ-lasers at it and it disintergrated.

Originally posted by ares834
Audiobook I think. And how is that not impressive? I can't think of single duel where such speed is prolonged across the enitre duel. And IIRC, Bane was "invisible" for nothing more than a single move and he was building up power for it. Meanwhile, Luke and Palps are fighting at these incredible speeds the entire duel.


I suspected it would be that. 'Prolonged across the entire duel?' The fight was hardly that long. It was a few panels and then Palpatine got his hand cut off. Plus in later fights Bane does maintain his speed for extremely prolonged periods of time. Remember when Zam did the math for the feat of him dueling the rain?

Originally posted by Nephthys
She was absorbing it? It didn't look like she was doing that to me, considering there was actual strain being put on the blade, enough to crack it, which I doubt would be happening if she was simply absorbing the energy as opposed to merely blocking it.



Craking a lightsaber blade through strain... That makes no sense at all. However, if she is absorbing the lightsaber balde it makes the cracking make some semblence of sense as she is absrobing the blade faster than it can pour out energy.



Considering that AT-AT's don't become destroyed in ESB when they fall it would certainly seem to be neccesary.



As if that is what "destroys" implies... For example, if I knock a vase off a counter I destroyed it.

Originally posted by Nephthys
I suspected it would be that. 'Prolonged across the entire duel?' The fight was hardly that long. It was a few panels and then Palpatine got his hand cut off.

Hard to tell how long a duel is by counting panels. Anakin and Obi-Wan's duel, for example, is only a couple panels as well yet it is an incredibly lengthy battle.



Good thing we aren't debating Bane in this thread then.

Originally posted by ares834


Craking a lightsaber blade through strain... That makes no sense at all. However, if she is absorbing the lightsaber balde it makes the cracking make some semblence of sense as she is absrobing the blade faster than it can pour out energy.



Considering that AT-AT's don't become destroyed in ESB when they fall it would certainly seem to be neccesary.



As if that is what "destroys" implies... For example, if I knock a vase of a counter I destroyed it.

1. And yet it happened. awegimp

Check it out yourself:

1ToztqqDcaY


At 3.38 we can see parts of the lightsaber start to crack and flake off. This evidences a form of strain, not 'not enough energy'.


2. The head had already been damaged from Luke batting a blast back at it. You can see its exploding anyway. Plus in ESB the AT-AT's fell into snow. Plus, plus the one Luke destroys appears to be a smaller model.

3. Whatevr.


Originally posted by ares834
Hard to tell how long a duel is by counting panels. Anakin and Obi-Wan's duel, for example, is only a couple panels as well yet it is an incredibly lengthy battle.



Good thing we aren't debating Bane in this thread then.


Exactly. So we can't say that Luke and Palpatine were fighting like that for an especially lengthy period of time, as you were suggesting.

I was using it as an example of the not really impressiveness of the feat. Also there are numerous examples of average Jedi fighting faster than that in the mythos.

Originally posted by Nephthys
At 3.38 we can see parts of the lightsaber start to crack and flake off. This evidences a form of strain, not 'not enough energy'.



Let's be reasonable here. Realisticly Lightsaber won't break through strain as they are beams of energy and even in the SWverse there is nothing to suggest the blade can be boken through force. Meanwhile, we have seen a lightsaber be absorbed.



Fair enough.



I've seen nothing to suggest there are diffrent models of AT-AT.



I never said they were. Only that it was across the entire duel.



Where? Name one time an average Jedi was fighting as such speeds that it's hard to see them. Regardless, they are fighting at speeds far faster than Malgus and Satle were fighting at.

Originally posted by ares834


Let's be reasonable here. Realisticly Lightsaber won't break through strain as they are beams of energy and even in the SWverse there is nothing to suggest the blade can be boken through force. Meanwhile, we have seen a lightsaber be absorbed.

We have also seen one be blocked. Also Star Wars is sci-fi. It doesn't need to make perfect sense. Nor do I think the people who made the trailer knew exactly how lightsabers work. However the clear implication is that there is some form of strain occuring. Also its entirely possible that the early form of the lightsaber functions in such a way as it can crack, particularly given that its from the Empire, who we don't know much about, technologically.

At the very least, you have nothing proving that she was absorbing the blade, when she could have just of easily have been blocking it.


Originally posted by ares834
I've seen nothing to suggest there are diffrent models of AT-AT.

It looks smaller.

estahuh


Originally posted by ares834
I never said they were. Only that it was across the entire duel.

Very well. So we can't say that they were using it for especially prolonged periods of time.

Originally posted by ares834
Where? Name one time an average Jedi was fighting as such speeds that it's hard to see them. Regardless, they are fighting at speeds far faster than Malgus and Satale were fighting at.

Hmmm, I'll need to track one down. I don' have any books with me atm.

I'll try to find some quotes. Wasn't TMP Obi-Wan stated to be faster than the eye could see? He's the gold standard of average Force-user imo.

They were also fighting at speeds faster than seen in the PT. I call this a clear case of things being slowed down for the audience.

Originally posted by Nephthys
We have also seen one be blocked. Also Star Wars is sci-fi. It doesn't need to make perfect sense. Nor do I think the people who made the trailer knew exactly how lightsabers work. However the clear implication is that there is some form of strain occuring. Also its entirely possible that the early form of the lightsaber functions in such a way as it can crack, particularly given that its from the Empire, who we don't know much about, technologically.

There is absolutely no precedence for lightsaber being destroyed or cracked through strain and common sense would go against such a notion. However, lightsaber blades have been destroyed through the use of force absorb.



Just look at it. It resembles force aborb almost perfectly. Right at her hands is a glowing ball of energy. And once againt there is aboslutely no precedence for destroying a lightsaber through strain while there is for absrobing it. So the logical choice is clearly having her absorb the lightsaber. Which is also reniforced when one realizes that a lightsaber breaking through strain makes no sense at all.



We can't and I haven't.



I can't recal such a statement.



Any evidence for such a claim?

Originally posted by ares834

It is impressive feat as I pointed out. However, do not presume that several others could not replicate it.

However, my intended point is that this feat alone does not proves that he would dominate other powerful adversaries with the Force. Because we have examples of both average and elite Jedi/Sith performing amazing TK based feats. This is why I gave you examples of Yoda and Zayne.

Originally posted by ares834
Yes, and Yoda is likely the most powerful Jedi save Luke Skywalker himself... Plus according to some the cartoon itself is exagerated.
Yoda once said: "Size matter not -- The only difference is your mind."

With proper concentration and focus, even an average Jedi can perform amazing feats with the Force. This is where the example of Zayne fits in.

If you understand the science and stunts behind handling of large objects with your physical and mental capabilities, you can do it. Consider the example of a Strongman trying to pull a heavy Truck. A lay person will be in awe upon looking at such impressive display of physical power. However, science reveals that you only need a certain amount of force to pull a heavy Truck. Something like 240 kg of force per attempt. I understand that science and logic do not appropriately apply to Star Wars mythos but it is not completely devoid of them, and my intended point should be very clear by now.

If you have made up your mind even as Jedi that you cannot do it. You simply cannot do it.

Originally posted by ares834
Which would have gravity far lower than that of a planet...
Valid point. That was the science behind Zayne's accomplishment. However, he lifted 80 Miners using the Force. This would still have required significant effort and focus on his part. If we judge him on the basis of his combat performance, we would have never imagined that he could perform a feat of this level with the Force.

So do not judge a character on the basis of some feats. Look at the other aspects as well like personality, emotional stability, behaviour, experience, exposure, reactions in times of danger etc....

Consider Satele Shan; she is very calm and focused. She is also very experienced and is strong in the Force. Her skills with the lightsaber are not ELITEST but she makes up for this weakness with her other skills and talents while engaging her opponents. She attempts to use the surroundings to her advantage in combat situations, which changes the outcomes in her favor.

Originally posted by ares834


Name me one other time a Jedi Master destoyed such a massive tank with a wave of his hand.
The machine got crippled by its own deflected fire. It was like a useless shell then. Luke then tripped that machine by putting pressure on its front two legs with the Force and twisted them. The machine collapsed and got destroyed after crashing. And Luke had to concentrate properly while he performed this feat. He remembered what Yoda taught him. It is all about MIND.

The difference between your narration and mine is that yours is portraying an exaggerated picture. Stop doing this and be fair in your judgements.

Also, Starkiller destroyed a very large Droid during events of TFU or TFU2. Some other powerful Jedi have also wiped out entire armies of Droids in single combat. Revan, Satele, and Yoda are among them.

Originally posted by ares834
Which is nothing compared to taking down an AT-AT which is a far more impressive feat.
See above.

You need to understand the difference between two feats.

The Tree is entirely composed of mass. This is why it is so heavy. A machine can have small components interconnected inside its main shell. It can be easier to cut through then a solid body which is entirely composed of mass.

I have explained to you above that what Luke actually did with the AT-AT. However, Satele did something else. She cut through a fresh and large Tree with the Force, and this caused the Tree to collapse. There is a difference.

Originally posted by ares834
She was absorbing his lightsaber numbnuts or at least attempting to.
Pay attention to the exchange of points between us:

This was my original statement:

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
tearing apart a very large and heavy boulder of rock in to pieces

This is the picture of this feat:

http://i51.tinypic.com/25gxwjn.png

And your response is this:

Originally posted by ares834
As for the boulder, I would advise you to learn about Force Absorb. Satele just absorbed a massive amount of energy.

Now to explain to me that what does the Force Absorb has to do with the destroyed a large boulder with the Force?

Shall I assume that you are the numbnuts here? I really seems so.

Originally posted by ares834
She just used force absorb on a lightsaber... She can then expand all that energy in any way she wants. Do you not understand how force absorb works? Now proove to me she is capable of such a feat without the need to absorb
Yes, I understand this. But I was not talking about this. See above.

Originally posted by ares834 Malgus after this point in time was defeated by an unnotable Jedi Knight.
When?

It is explained in detail in The Old Republic: The Third Lesson about the events after Malgus lost to Satele on Alderaan in single combat. Malgus was in a very bad shape and was rescued by his forces. However, he was angry at his loss and wanted revenge. He faced two more Jedi on the same planet and defeated both of them.

If you check his history, he has killed several Jedi including skilled Jedi Masters by himself. He was very strong.

Originally posted by ares834
As was Satele subdued by Malgus...
She did get in to trouble twice during her duel with Malgus. However, she came up with a suitable countermove each time. This is why I told that she is far from helpless even during vulnerable situations.

Originally posted by ares834
Regardless, Luke held his own against Palps and arguably beat him in a fair contest at the end.
No, Luke was assisted by BM of Leia and her unborn child. It augmented his strength and sapped the will of his opponent. No need to use fake statements to justify your position.

Originally posted by shinkoryu
I don't see how understanding names of certain fictional planets or knowing certain characters equate to me not having a social life or a superior social life compared to that of someone who is so fanatically obsessed with a certain character.

By the way nice attempt at trying to attack me, i gotta give you props for that brah.
Care to reveal your true identity? With only 6 posts, you are passing judgements on me?

Were you previously banned and then rejoined with a different name? I smell something fishy here.

My laptop ate my reply. Screw this.

You cannot prove she absorbed the blade any more than I can prove that she telekinetically blocked it.

Furthermore you claim that it cracking makes no sense and then turn around and try to use it cracking as evidence for you own argument? Lol what!?

And finally the 'ball of energy' you mention is not present to me. I see a blue tint around her hands, but other than that all I see is what happens every other time a lightsaber gets blocked, goes white and fizzes a bit. And a blue tint is also present whenever she uses TK in the trailer, so if anythig it supports my interpretation.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD


Care to reveal your true identity? With only 6 posts, you are passing judgements on me?

Were you previously banned and then rejoined with a different name? I smell something fishy here. Do you really care about your E-pride this much that you want me to "reveal my true identity"? Im just some random internet name to you brah and just pointing our your creepy obsession with any kotor character.

Alright, gentlemen, let's be friendly here. No need to troll, shinkoryu, or your tenure here will be short.

A note on using one's hands to block a lightsaber.

A five hundred megawatt laser with a wavelength in the UV range, and a 10 meter lens, can drill a meter long hole into a carbon-titanium alloy within a tenth of a second.

A lightsaber can casually pierce through star war space age blast door metal (probably durasteel.)

Consider how difficult blocking that much energy, focused into such a small spot, would be.

Are the trailers really considered Canon? I mean theres a TFU trailer out there showing Starkiller unleashing a force wave that was powerful enough to turn all the storm troopers to ash.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
You do not need to take things on personal level here. You will decide that what I should debate about here? 1 or 2 posts of mine per month anger you?

Stick to the topic. If you have something useful to contribute, then do so. That last line was comically contradictory when taking your second sentence in to account.












And I know you are but what is pi?

Bump.

On a second perusal of the ROTS novel, I'm re-appreciative of Zonakins abilities. In my opinion Luke can handle any Force powers thrown at them and Zonakin can dominate any opponent who faces him. In fact, I would say that both Skywalkers can handle 2 of team 1 quite well solo, with the remaining one defeating his opponent.

On a second perusal of Rise of Darth Vader, I'm re-appreciative of the lack of giving a shit when it comes to continuity these days.

How so?

Remember The Clone Wars episode where Anakin rescues Captain Tarkin, and they exchange banter over a few episodes? Well apparently, Anakin's memory of those events went right out the door when he became Vader, because according to his own thoughts, he'd only met Tarkin twice--above Kashyyyk in RoDV and briefly at the end of RotS. I almost made the excuse that 'Anakin' had met Tarkin before, not 'Vader', until I realized that was total horseshit.


Also according to the novel, Palpatine had created the title of 'Moff' for his governors, not the ancient Sith.


It's the little things, I know, but damn do they irk me.

I agree.

Those are little things.

I'd make a joke about someone's penis size, but I don't wanna Gideon's ears to burn.

Why not? It wouldn't be the only part of him that burns. awermm

dCI72PSW1pY

Originally posted by Nephthys
Bump.

On a second perusal of the ROTS novel, I'm re-appreciative of Zonakins abilities.
Zonakin can be handled with the Force. He is dangerous with lightsaber.

Originally posted by Nephthys
In my opinion Luke can handle any Force powers thrown at them
No, he can't. Satele alone is a match for him.

Originally posted by Nephthys
and Zonakin can dominate any opponent who faces him.
Let us assume that Revan and Bastilla are on him; there is not a damn thing he can do. He will be terminated.

Originally posted by Nephthys
In fact, I would say that both Skywalkers can handle 2 of team 1 quite well solo, with the remaining one defeating his opponent.
You are mistaken.

After the duo of Revan and Bastilla is done with Zonakin, the trio will take care of Luke Skywalker.

This battle is not at all easy for Skywalkers.

Has Revan been determined to have strong offensive Force powers yet?

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
Has Revan been determined to have strong offensive Force powers yet?
Not much have been revealed about him yet. However, he is skilled with the lightsaber. He brought down a Basilisk War Droid and its rider purely on the basis of his skills with the lightsaber.

Also, he has been affirmed as the greatest champion of the Jedi Order of his time.

You have probably read this.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Not much have been revealed about him yet. However, he is skilled with the lightsaber. He brought down a Basilisk War Droid and its rider purely on the basis of his skills with the lightsaber.

Also, he has been affirmed as the greatest champion of the Jedi Order of his time. That's not a whole lot to go by. All those ambiguous descriptions like "skilled duelist" and "powerful in the Force" all really amount to crap. That's how Ahsoka Tano is described.