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Alright each team as one week of prep.

Good fight, but with 1 week prep i dont see what Sinister can come up wit that can trump any of Team 1.

Solid magic users against pure tech. The best team 2 can probably do is hand Kang celestial tech so he managed everything while the other two came up with some biological answer to magic. It's going to be Kang vs everyone in the end.

Kang wins of course.

Sinister is not alone in a fight.

Hmm...

One week of prep for a team that has master geneticists, Celestial, and time travel tech? By the end of the week all 3 of them would have been enhanced to Celestial level like Apocalypse had planned during The Twelve.

I'm somewhat leaning towards Team 2.

With time tech and celestial tech they could probably grow a god race. Too bad the HE is not with them.

Wasn't High E inpsired by Nathaniel

Team 2. Enchantress is the weak link on Team 1, while a non-jobbing Apoc is the most powerful guy on the field.

Originally posted by zopzop
non-jobbing Apoc is the most powerful guy on the field.

Um. No?

Originally posted by zopzop
Team 2. Enchantress is the weak link on Team 1, while a non-jobbing Apoc is the most powerful guy on the field.

Even if you're considering his straight up fight abilities, he's still under Kang. Actually, Kang is just superior to Apocalypse.

Originally posted by Bentley
Even if you're considering his straight up fight abilities, he's still under Kang. Actually, Kang is just superior to Apocalypse.
no2
http://www.411mania.com/siteimages/slap_27094.gif

Originally posted by Cogito
Um. No?

yup. Schooled Loki (and badly) with no prep. Has tech laying around that can powerdrain asgardians, and also tech that allows him to cross dimensions and timelines.

He's displayed nearly every power under the sun at one point or another, and with a week of prep he can give any additional abilities to someone else.

something not considered by this thread so far: Sinister has (or had) DNA of just about every mutant there was, and is known to keep clones laying around. Apocalypse is notorious for taking mutants (and NON mutants: see hulk) and altering their powers to fit his own designs. Combine the two and you'd have an army with limitless potential.

Although: given a week, Doom could probably whip up an army of doombots or something.

This is not a match I'd want to stick around and watch in person.

^ He didn't school Loki. At all. Originally posted by zopzop
Team 2. Enchantress is the weak link on Team 1, while a non-jobbing Apoc is the most powerful guy on the field. Enchantress is anything but a weak link. She's always been in the top tier of Marvel magic users.

Lol @ Sinister being here.

Any on Team 1 could defeat or stomp any on T2. The same cannot be said for the reverse.

T1 FTW.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
Any on Team 1 could defeat or stomp any on T2. The same cannot be said for the reverse.


That's why Loki ran from Apocalypse?

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
^ He didn't school Loki. At all.

Who broke off the fight and retreated first? Apoc or Loki?

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
^ He didn't school Loki. At all.

Perhaps you should re-read that fight. Loki attempts to recruit apocalypse, Apocalypse rebuffs him, Loki attacks him.

Apocalypse tosses loki around like a rag doll, berates him verbally, saying he knows all about the asgardians, then deploys equipment that powerdrains Loki. Loki then breaks out and runs for his life.

This was a horrible, HORRIBLE showing for loki. At no point was this even close to even.



Lol @ "Immune to all known attacks, top 5 telepath, genius geneticist with cloning tech" Sinister?

^ Who got knocked around, was assisted by an ally, had tech at his disposal, was in his base, still couldn't contain Loki, and all but admitted the powers of the Gods? Apocalypse isn't the type to defer to another's power if he completely dominates an opponent. Get real.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
=========
Apocalypse
=========

http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Loki%20Fights/LokivsApocalypse.jpg

Loki vs Apocalypse, from X-Factor #50:
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Loki%20Fights/LokivsApocalypse01X-Factor50.jpg
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Loki%20Fights/LokivsApocalypse02.jpg
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Loki%20Fights/LokivsApocalypse03.jpg
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Loki%20Fights/LokivsApocalypse04.jpg
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Loki%20Fights/LokivsApocalypse05.jpg
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Loki%20Fights/LokivsApocalypse06.jpg Loki retreated as much as he retreated when Mad Thinker told him off during Acts of Vengeance and Loki left.

I'll go with team 1.
The most powerful dude on the field is Kang, that's not debatable, but prep would give the edge to team 1, because of Doom, and Loki.

Originally posted by Bouboumaster
I'll go with team 1.
The most powerful worthless dude on the field is Kang, that's not debatable, but prep would give the edge to team 1, because of Doom, and Loki. Fixed.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Loki retreated as much as he retreated when Mad Thinker told him off during Acts of Vengeance and Loki left.

Oh please.

Did the Mad Thinker knock Loki on his ass, have his slave b|tch slap him, then cage him like a dog? Loki broke out and ran, which was the wise thing to do.

^ Loki gave as good as he got considering Loki knocked Appocalypse across the room to start, incinerated Kalibak, wrecked his base and his vaunted Celestial tech he thought would contain him. Hint: it didn't.

This left Kalibak shivering and blubbering about the power of the Gods for which Apocalypse's response was, "We must prepare... blahblahblah... my head's shaped like a dildo... blahblahblah"

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
^ Loki gave as good as he got considering Loki knocked Appocalypse across the room to start, incinerated Kalibak, wrecked his base and his vaunted Celestial tech he thought would contain him. Hint: it didn't.

This left Kalibak shivering and blubbering about the power of the Gods for which Apocalypse's response was, "We must prepare... blahblahblah... my head's shaped like a dildo... blahblahblah"

Caliban was just fine after the incineration. Either he has a HF that took over or Apoc rezzed him. Either way it doesn't change the fact that Loki ran.

Caliban should shiver, he's not in Loki's league but I love how Apoc corrected him and said much of what Loki says is a lie. I mean he's a coward, so Loki also being a liar shouldn't come as a surprise.

^ Apocalypse rezzed him. Doesn't change the fact that Caliban was shivering in his mutie boots over Loki and his threats and his power and Apocalypse's only words of comfort were, "We'd best be preparin, my mutie butt-brother."

Originally posted by zopzop
Caliban was just fine after the incineration. Either he has a HF that took over or Apoc rezzed him. Either way it doesn't change the fact that Loki ran.

Caliban should shiver, he's not in Loki's league but I love how Apoc corrected him and said much of what Loki says is a lie. I mean he's a coward, so Loki also being a liar shouldn't come as a surprise.

Exactly. LOKI took the initiative to attack apocalypse and SHOULD have had the advantage. At no point was apocalypse even remotely threatened or hurt here. You can sugarcoat the events as much as you want, but the fact is that when surprise attacked, apocalypse smacked loki around and immobilized him, and when Loki managed to free himself he fled.

you'd think if he was "clearly" above apocalypse, he'd retaliate for being humiliated that way.



Caliban is nowhere near Apocalypse OR Loki in power. What does Caliban being afraid have to do with anything? And if you read the scan, the "being prepared" comment was in reference to Loki not being alone in his hatred of humanity/mutantkind (i.e. there are entire pantheons of equivalently powered beings) so preparation was necessary. Apocalypse's whole schtick is a giant war of "survival of the fittest" where the strong (mutantkind) eliminate the weak (everyone else), so this isn't really out of character.

note also that there are at least TWO alt-futures where apocalypse has conquered the planet and enslaved everyone else- and asgardians are nowhere to be found.

^Even if that were true...it happened in Apoc's place of power. If he couldn't defeat Loki there with the aid of his ally then I don't like his chances on neutral ground.
Originally posted by zopzop
Caliban was just fine after the incineration. Either he has a HF that took over or Apoc rezzed him. Either way it doesn't change the fact that Loki ran.

Caliban should shiver, he's not in Loki's league but I love how Apoc corrected him and said much of what Loki says is a lie. I mean he's a coward, so Loki also being a liar shouldn't come as a surprise.
I think Apocalypse is just as given to lies and exaggerations as Loki is.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
^ Apocalypse rezzed him. Doesn't change the fact that Caliban was shivering in his mutie boots over Loki and his threats and his power and Apocalypse's only words of comfort were, "We'd best be preparin, my mutie butt-brother."

Omg Apoc's SLAVE was shivering?! Stop the presses. Doesn't change the fact that Loki was humiliated and rather than fight it out, he ran. The damage to Apoc's base is to be expected, I mean the fight to place there and it's not like he can't repair it. It doesn't change the fact that Loki got out of there as soon as he could. You saw how Apoc undid the damage Loki did to Caliban.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
I think Apocalypse is just as given to lies and exaggerations as Loki is.

Yeah but Loki made an entire career out of it.

Originally posted by zopzop
Yeah but Loki made an entire career out of it.
All that says is that he's better at it.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
All that says is that he's better at it.

So nothing he says means anything, gotcha! Hence why Apoc was unimpressed by him. Oh and the fact that Apoc "couldn't" beat Loki is because Loki was ghost as soon as he had the chance to be out of there.

A liar and a coward.

Originally posted by Space M ummy
Exactly. LOKI took the initiative to attack apocalypse and SHOULD have had the advantage. At no point was apocalypse even remotely threatened or hurt here. You can sugarcoat the events as much as you want, but the fact is that when surprise attacked, apocalypse smacked loki around and immobilized him, and when Loki managed to free himself he fled.

you'd think if he was "clearly" above apocalypse, he'd retaliate for being humiliated that way. Apocalypse was the one who attacked him first. Loki overpowered his grasp and knocked Apocalypse across the room. Suggesting that Loki should have had the advantage because of that is inexplicable.

If anything, Apocalypse having Loki in his grasp, being in his home base, having his ally sneak attack him, being in his home base where plot device Celestial tech is lying around, Apocalypse should have had the advantage.

In the fight, they both gave as good as they got considering all of Apocalypse's advantages. Imagine Reed or Doom fighting in their bases with their plot device tech and tell me that's not an advantage that heavily skews it in their favor.

If Apocalypse's actual Celestial tech ain't doing crap, he alone's not doing crap. So placing an Apocalypse w/ all those varied advantages might be comparable to Loki.

But as Caliban's fears and Apocalypse's acknowledgement of Loki's threat and godly power evinces, Apocalypse < Loki. And that bears out based on their respective feats. Originally posted by Space M ummy
Caliban is nowhere near Apocalypse OR Loki in power. What does Caliban being afraid have to do with anything? And if you read the scan, the "being prepared" comment was in reference to Loki not being alone in his hatred of humanity/mutantkind (i.e. there are entire pantheons of equivalently powered beings) so preparation was necessary. Apocalypse's whole schtick is a giant war of "survival of the fittest" where the strong (mutantkind) eliminate the weak (everyone else), so this isn't really out of character.

note also that there are at least TWO alt-futures where apocalypse has conquered the planet and enslaved everyone else- and asgardians are nowhere to be found. Because Caliban is not only afraid of Loki's power for himself but for humanity and Apocalypse as well. To which Apocalypse does nothing to deny that threat and presumably goes off to make more sh1tty tech.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Apocalypse was the one who attacked him first. Loki overpowered his grasp and knocked Apocalypse across the room. Suggesting that Loki should have had the advantage because of that is inexplicable.

If anything, Apocalypse having Loki in his grasp, being in his home base, having his ally sneak attack him, being in his home base where plot device Celestial tech is lying around, Apocalypse should have had the advantage.

In the fight, they both gave as good as they got considering all of Apocalypse's advantages. Imagine Reed or Doom fighting in their bases with their plot device tech and tell me that's not an advantage that heavily skews it in their favor.

If Apocalypse's actual Celestial tech ain't doing crap, he alone's not doing crap. So placing an Apocalypse w/ all those varied advantages might be comparable to Loki.

But as Caliban's fears and Apocalypse's acknowledgement of Loki's threat and godly power evinces, Apocalypse < Loki. And that bears out based on their respective feats.

Loki ran right? Not Apoc. Loki RAN, after being knocked on his ass, pimp slapped by Apoc's slave and being caged like a dog. He ran as soon as he was able to. Apoc didn't go anywhere. Unlike what happened with the Mad Thinker. He was humiliated and he ran.

The damage to Apoc's base could be undone as easily as the damage to his slave was. He literally rezzed a guy that was a smoldering ruin.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
^Even if that were true...it happened in Apoc's place of power. If he couldn't defeat Loki there with the aid of his ally then I don't like his chances on neutral ground.

1.) Loki knowingly invaded and attacked Apocalypse in his "place of power." either he knew what was there, thought himself above apoc's powers and tech and was wrong, or loki is an idiot who takes huge risks. Neither scenario really speaks favorably of loki since apoc comes out as smarter/more prepared in both scenarios.

2.) you're giving apocalypse a WEEK of prep. there is no "neutral ground"- whoever happens to be sitting on the bigger stockpile wins here, and giving apocalypse every single device he's ever used is a massive advantage.

^ What are you talking about? He wasn't invading his base. He just showed up out of the blue like he did to every other villain trying to con them into joining him.

Loki's machinations sh1t on Apocalypse's. You want to talk prep and stockpiles, Loki stomps him with Norn Storns amp that staggered Void, and he keeps entirely for himself instead of spreading around, and ragestomps Apoc. Originally posted by zopzop
Loki ran right? Not Apoc. Loki RAN, after being knocked on his ass, pimp slapped by Apoc's slave and being caged like a dog. He ran as soon as he was able to. Apoc didn't go anywhere. Unlike what happened with the Mad Thinker. He was humiliated and he ran.

The damage to Apoc's base could be undone as easily as the damage to his slave was. He literally rezzed a guy that was a smoldering ruin. Would you fight Reed or Doom in their base with their plot device tech lying around if you weren't going to convince them otherwise to voluntarily join you?

You make it sound like Loki was savign face. Arguable, barely. Taking his words at face value though makes sense. And even if you don't want to do so, why don't you take Apocalypse's statement at face value? Considering Apocalypse had "cleaned house" as you're trying to spin it, why is he comforting Caliban's fears with thoughts of preparations rather than comments about how he just pwned that noob?

Hint: he didn't.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
What are you talking about? He wasn't invading his base. He just showed up out of the blue like he did to every other villain trying to con them into joining him. Would you fight Reed or Doom in their base with their plot device tech lying around if you weren't going to convince them otherwise to voluntarily join you?

showing up unannounced and forcing his way in to attempt to trick Apocalypse into doing his dirty work is "invading" his base. Loki and Apocalypse aren't allies. both are villains. one showing up in another's location univited is almost CERTAINLY going to be interpreted as a threat without very good reason.



On the contrary, he dismissed loki's claims of godhood ("I too, have been a god" before sending him running. Any claims that Apocalypse is somehow impressed by a "god" in his midst display a staggering lack of comprehension here. Caliban was a notorious coward before apocalypse empowered him. his fear is in character.

And again, because you missed it the first time, the "preparation" comment was in regards to Loki not being alone. There's no need to gloat about "owning noobs" when anyone with eyes just saw loki get whipped and sent running.

edit: and just to clarify, because it doesn't look like you understood- the preparations that must be made are for humanity as a whole for the coming war not apocalypse specifically, and apocalypse's "preparations" for that war consist of killing the weak- Keep in mind apocalypse won that war. twice.

Originally posted by golem370
Wasn't High E inpsired by Nathaniel

Yes, actually. HE was Sinister's apprentice. He surpassed him by quite a large margin though. Or should I say, HE took the applications of genetic manipulation in a far different direction as he focussed on improving himself and creating his New Men whereas Sinister focused on creating a master race of mutants and became obsessed with the Summers/Grey genome.

Plus Apocalypse kept Sinister on a short leash.

1 Week prep? Thats good enough for team 1 to take 7-8/10

I think Apoc could teach Odin a thing or two about a proper headbutt

Team 1.

And Loki > Apocalypse.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Team 1.

And Loki > Apocalypse.

That's why he ran after being humiliated by Apoc instead of putting him in his place?naughty

I'd rather not recycle what ODG posted and said concerning that "fight", but, looking at showings and feats as a whole, Loki is Apocalypse's superior in just about everything. And if we do the whole "Oh, well without jobbing/PIS/CIS, Apocalypse is, like, super powerful! And a legit threat!" under the same conditions, Loki ragestomps Apoc.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Fixed.


Look Zop, even after posting this ODG readily agrees that Kang >>> Apocalypse

Originally posted by Omega Vision
Lol @ Sinister being here.

Any on Team 1 could defeat or stomp any on T2. The same cannot be said for the reverse.

T1 FTW.


If any in team 1 beats Kang at all is because Kang doesn't fight magic all that often, he operates in a higher scale that the others under his own power -Doom being the ocassional exception-.

Sinister just got competent. Team 2 ftw.